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and bring back cnn's evan perez for just -- to kind of go deeper into this. evan, if you can just talk about this -- what came out of this -- evan, hey. can you hear me? apparently -- >> yep. >> okay, we are on the air right now. can you just go in some detail about what we heard now from the dni and from chris wray of the fbi? >> we heard from jon ratcliffe, that both iran and russia have gained access to voter-registration system. and appeared to -- to at least have access to that data. now, the question is what can they do with that? with the iranians, according to ratcliffe, they were behind a series of e-mails that have been received around the country. democratic voters were getting these e-mails. >> right. florida, alaska, and i think at least one other state, in particular. >> right. and they were being threatened to say you have to change your registration.

we're going to be watching you. and if you don't, we're going to come after you. and so, the implication was that these people, whoever these hackers were, could perhaps see you -- how you voted. and so, that was a concern that i think the intelligence community, the fbi, had about these e-mails and these threats that voters were getting around the country. and so, that's reason why you saw this rushed press conference. i've never had -- i've never seen the fbi do a hurried press conference, like this. you know, it's a very unusual situation. but it gives you an indication. it's an indication of how worried they are about the next couple weeks about the potential for foreign countries to try to do influence operations that could cause chaos in this country. >> so, evan, i want to read something that jon ratcliffe said at this press conference because i find it a little confusing. he said, to that end, we have already seen iran sending spoofed e-mails designed to intimidate voters, incite social unrest, and damage president trump. you may have seen some reporting

on this, in the last 24 hours. or you may have even been a recipient of one of those e-mails. individuals could cast fraudulent ballots, even from overseas. this video -- in any claims about allegedly -- allegedly fraudulent ballots are not true. this is a transcript. i'm sorry. it's got a little inaccuracies. he is saying the -- those e-mails that people received, that democratic voters receive, saying we know you're a democrat. you need to vote for trump. we're going to be watching you. threatening democrats to vote for trump. he's saying, somehow, that is designed to damage president trump? isn't it designed to damage, also, joe biden? >> yeah. i mean, look. it's a little bit confusing to see that. but i think what he is going after, and again, i'm trying to figure out exactly how he's sort of rationalizing this. but i think because these

threats were being purported to come from the proud boys who are, of course, associated supporters of president trump, that it would be seen as trump supporters threatening democratic voters. and in that way, trying to essentially undermine president trump. i think the larger point that, perhaps ratcliffe is not capturing is, this is about sowing chaos in this country. the iranians don't really care. they want -- this is what the intelligence community believes. the iranians simply want to divide americans. want to exploit the divisions that already exist. and use some of these -- these messages that people are -- are -- are getting because they know that this is a very divided country. people are going to amplify some of these things and perhaps set people up against each other. >> and, evan, did -- did ratcliffe or christopher wray, and we should point out, chris wray is, you know, a straight shooter. he is not a poll tilitician.

he comes from a legal background. his entire career has been as an attorney. and he's been criticized heavily by the president. ratcliffe comes from the world of politics. he is clearly an idea -- has he said anything or did chris wray say anything about what, actually, russia has been doing, if anything? >> they know that russians have gotten into the system. they haven't seen any activity from the russians about -- you know, to see what they are doing with that information that they've obtained. now, this is the same activity that the russians had back in 2016. we know that they were into some systems. they ended up not actually doing anything. at least, that's the assessment of the intelligence community. so, it's possible that it's a repeat of that. they were simply getting in to see what -- what -- how the systems work. and, of course, we can't rest easy. we understand that, today, some of the states were told to try

to patch off some of their systems. to make sure that these countries can't get in there. but i think you're right. i mean, one of the things that people like ratcliffe have tried to emphasize is, you know, the activity by countries that are trying to damage president trump. not so much the activity that the russians are doing. and we know that they are doing it to try to support and prop up president trump's campaign. they want president trump to win. that's the assessment of the intelligence community. we didn't hear so much of that from this press conference, today. and i think you heard from chris wray. his point -- his point -- his point is simply that, you know, president -- president -- the -- the american voters need to be careful about what information they're getting online and what they're spreading. >> all right. evan perez, appreciate it. evan, stick around and i am sure you will be getting more information as we talk. joining us now, former fbi director -- deputy director andrew mccabe.

cnn election analyst. and juliet. what do you make of this? again, i did not see this press conference. so -- but it sounds like they didn't really go into detail on russia. but -- but the dni is saying that this iran activity of threatening democratic voters was designed to hurt trump. i don't know if he spoke about the attempted effect on biden's campaign. >> that's a great question. i think there's a number of things that kind of reach out to us here. i think, just provisionally, the fact that they held this press conference about election meddling by foreign powers, so close to the election, itself, shows you how far we've come from 2016. this is exactly the sort of thing that was considered, in 2016, and, of course, the administration opted not to go very forcefully, proactively,

with the statement about russian meddling. and there's been a lot of criticism of that decision, in the aftermath. so, i think what you are seeing now is an intelligence community, certainly an fbi and joined by the dni tonight, trying to lean a little further forward to have that sort of inoculation effect on the electorate. to let people know that they should be skeptical consumers of information that they see online. whether or not the -- the dni's comments about iran and the purpose of the iranian meddling and whether or not they were trying to help or hurt president trump. quite frankly, i'd like to see more about that. there should be really solid analysis underpinning that judgment. and i just don't think we've gotten enough of that detail from the -- from the information that was shared with the press, this evening. >> juliet, i mean, the trump administration, particularly dni ratcliffe, who has been downplaying potential russian

efforts. and i don't want to make this political. but it just -- it just jumps out at me, at this stage, right away, they are not really talking about russian efforts and they're talking about the iranian efforts as being, somehow, against president trump. when those e-mails that were sent out to democratic voters threatening them, telling them to vote for trump. i get, sort of, the three-dimensional chess of it. people think it's the proud boys and, therefore, link it to trump. but it is, also, just trying to scare democrats about voting for joe biden. >> that -- that would be -- that would what a rational person would believe. so i don't think we need to apologize for being politically skeptical about ratcliffe, at this stage. you know, he -- he doesn't deserve the luxury of apoliticalness, given what he's done over the last couple of weeks to make it clear they view some of the russian disinformation about biden as

accurate. so i'm not -- so i sort of view ratcliffe as -- as different. i think the fact, as andrew mccabe said, you know, the fact that the deputy director of the fbi and others were there. my takeaway is this. other countries are messing with us. they are getting caught easily. let's remember this, now. they knew that they were going to get caught. this is a public misinformation campaign to mess with us. the purpose of doing it, clearly, was to go after democrats. i don't quite get how this hurts donald trump. and -- and, fourth, here's the good news. it was -- it was acknowledged. there was a press conference. we're preparing the american public. we're preparing the state and locals. and there is no evidence that votes were changed. so i look at the good news, for the next two weeks. i do think that this was an important statement. and i think -- i think what we have to remember is the iranians

and the -- and possibly the russians know they're getting caught, at this stage. so this is just a little bit of mind games going on, right now, that we just have to fight back with -- with equal mind games, so to speak. >> before i go to everyone else, i just want to bring back in evan perez. everyon evan, i understand you've got something? >> no, anderson. i think what juliet is underscoring is -- is very important here because i think you're right. there is a lot of information that we don't have about what, exactly, the fbi and what the intelligence community has, that sort of explains more about what -- about this activity. and certainly, what the russians are doing. i think one of the things that i think -- i think the guests were pointing out was the fact -- the importance of having the fbi director there and some of the other officials. simply because ratcliffe has been seen as such a politically partisan person. and i think this was to give confidence to the voters, especially democrats, that

what's being heard here is the real deal. >> rick, i want to play some of what we heard from director of national intelligence ratcliffe. let's listen. >> we have confirmed that some voter-registration information has been obtained by iran, and separately by russia. this data can be used by foreign actors to attempt to communicate false information to registered voters that they hope will cause confusion, sow chaos, and undermine your confidence in american democracy. to that end, we have already seen iran sending spoofed e-mails, designed to intimidate voters, incite social unrest, and damage president trump. >> what we've heard, tonight, from the fbi, from dni? >> so this is, you know, if you listen to that word obtain, almost anyone can obtain

voter-registration information. it's not clear to me, from this statement, that what we have here is the same as what we had in 2016. which was, the russians using fishing activities to be able to break into state voter registration databases and sniff around and i think undermine voter confidence that our election systems are secure. this may have simply been buying or downloading from the internet, which you can do, voter information, including party registration information. and perhaps, the iranians took that party-registration information, looked for democrats, and sent out these proud boy e-mails. so we don't know exactly what's going on. but, you know, it's being portrayed potentially as hacking. it's not necessarily hacking, at this point. it is an attempt to try to sow discord. i'm not sure why they needed to call a press conference so quickly and didn't want to just hit it in the next morning. >> david chalian, politically,

any kind of impact, you think? >> well, i think you're right to be skeptical around the politics around this. i'm not sure why it matters, right now, in terms of these officials trying to communicate to voters and make them aware that these foreign entities are -- are trying to interfere with the election. why it matters who they're trying to help, politically, right now. what matters is getting that information out, so that voters are aware to be suspect when they see some fishy e-mail or, you know, that is trying to influence their vote or create division. that's what's important. far more so than this notion that ratcliffe is putting out there about iran trying to hurt trump. i don't -- i just don't think we have enough information about that to understand whether they're doing that, in some way, that actually has electoral impact. >> yeah. i just found it interesting that that's kind of the spin, juliet, that he is putting on it, at this stage. but i think the point is

absolutely right. the -- the -- what's important is not so much of the spin anybody's putting on it. it's just the facts of what actually happened. and we don't really know a lot of details, certainly on the russian side, at this point, juliet. >> that's exactly right. but i want to just remind people. why are the proud boys -- and why is a foreign intelligence agency utilizing them as a proxy for donald trump? foreign-intelligence agencies watch our debates as well. they learn, they know about conspiracy theories, about groups the president supports -- about white supremacy groups that the president aligns himself with and -- and takes days to sort of try to separate himself. so, there is a bigger story here, which we've all been saying. is we're not the only ones, you know, freaking out or disturbed by president trump's behavior, national security behavior. there are foreign-intelligence

agencies who know exactly, right? here's this group that no one's ever heard of. a white-supremacy group, presumably, aligned with trump. we're going to use their e-mails to go after, to scare democrats. that, to me, is -- you know, that begins with donald trump, in a debate, not condemning a white-supremacy group that some democrats may be afraid of. we don't know who these democrats are. are they african-americans who are worried about a white-supremacy group? old women, who are worried about being alone? so, this is -- they're playing -- they're -- you know, if donald trump lives by disinformation, he will also be harmed by disinformation. and that's what we're seeing. so i'm really -- i'm really glad that legitimate people on the intelligence community came out. i don't know if it had to be tonight. i'm really glad that they came out and said stop messing around, and alerted us so that we're just a little bit smarter. we were the audience. >> andrew, just in terms of what the u.s. has been doing the last several years, in the wake of

2016, to prepare for and try to stop russian interference and other countries' interference. obviously, there has been a lot of reporting over the last three years of president trump not wanting to hear his people bring up russia. briefers being told, don't bring up russia because russia, immediately, to him, equates to that, you know, it -- as an attempt to delegitimize him as a president. there's reporting, i think it was kirsten nielsen, was told not to bring up russia stuff. so, what has been done? because the complaint has been, if the president of the united states is not the one sending out the message that countering disinformation, you know, if it's not coming from the top, it's not -- you know, as what vice president would call it, it's not a whole-of-government effort to stop this stuff. >> well, that's absolutely

right, anderson. and -- and this is the -- this is a threat that is so significant that it should be led by the president of the united states. it should be championed by, you know, our leaders on capitol hill. it should have been supported with legislation and proactive measures, which it certainly was not. nevertheless, i'm quite sure that the fbi and the rest of the intelligence community has been assiduously working it. you need to know that, in 2016, we were literally learning these things, as we went. you know, this was the first time we had ever seen interference, on this level. we stood by and watched, while the russians probed the voter-registration systems in every single state. and that is not an insignificant thing. it's not just about changing the vote tallies on election night. but if a foreign actor can get into the registration system and actually eliminate records, they can shift the balance of who's able to cast a vote. so it's -- it is still an

insidious threat. and i'm quite sure that the fbi, dhs, and the rest of their partners, have spent a lot of time learning about how these systems work. finding vulnerabilities in different state systems. coaching states and companies that produce electoral infrastructure, on how to kind of bolster their ability to defend from a cyberattack. but we all know that cyberattacks change, every single day. the threat vector is constantly shifting. and if you're not on top of it today and tomorrow, you're behind the game and you're going to get burned. >> i want to play a bit of what fbi director, christopher wray, had to say. he did not echo these efforts were meant to damage president trump. if anything, almost seemed to counter the president's claims that there will be issues with absentee or mail-in voting. let's listen. >> we've been working for years, as a community, to build resilience in our election infrastructure. and today, that infrastructure

remains resilient. you should be confident that your vote counts. early, unverified claims to the contrary should be viewed with a healthy dose of skepticism. >> andrew, i mean, he -- he struck a very different tone than dni ratcliffe. what's also interesting is that if the -- if the -- if the disinformation campaign, if part of the message is foreign actors can send in ballots and mail in ballots. the irony is that's nothing that the president of the united states hasn't been claiming. and what the fbi director just, there, is saying is, you know, don't listen to the disinformation coming from russia or iran, that mail-in ballots are, you know, are vulnerable to foreign interference. but he's, also, essentially saying the president is -- you know, has been spreading this stuff. and don't listen to that misinformation, either.

>> you know, you have to give him credit. i think that it could be a very -- the next homeland session with the president could be, like, a really awkward thanksgiving dinner, where half the family hates the other half. i -- there is no question that you could easily interpret the director's comments there as a refutation of the consistent attacks this president has leveed in the last few weeks on our voting system. you know, the -- do not mistake, the -- christopher wray is a very careful, very smart lawyer. he is not someone who is prone to hyperbole or overstate things. that is a very strong statement from him. it is in direct contradiction to the things that we've heard the president say. and that could create some really awkward and pressure-filled moments, as we go forward. >> yeah.

it's fascinating to watch this in real time. i want to thank you you all. i want to bring in john podesta, obviously, ran hillary clinton's campaign. joins us now. mr. podesta, obviously, clinton campaign was the focus of russian interference in 2016. i'm wondering what your reaction is to what we are hearing, tonight, from the fbi and from the dni. >> well, anderson, first of all, i'm glad that they're out there and they're saying something about it. obviously, they put quite different spins on the information they put before the american public. and -- as has been noted by juliet, i think. that john ratcliffe doesn't have a whole lot of credibility. he's acted in a political way, as dni. and i think that's damaging, too. >> right. he is a politician. he's not a person from the intelligence committee who spent a lifetime focusing on intelligence and being nonpartisan. >> but, nevertheless, i think it's -- it's good to have the fact that there is foreign

interference going on. you know, we have the story, earlier, that the president was informed that the -- a russian agent was feeding disinformation to rudy giuliani. his reaction was, bring it on. so, we've had a president who has really done everything he can to actually solicit information. and now, if it's coming from the iranians, maybe he has -- maybe he has second thoughts about that. but, you know, he has not done what he needed to do to try to protect american democracy and americans from foreign interference in the election. >> it does really strike me. and i mean, i just said this to andrew. but, that what chris wray was trying to counter was not only the disinformation coming from, whether it's iran or russia, about mail-in balloting and voting. it's, also, the disinformation coming from our own president.

>> well, you know, he's been peddling this for months. i think he is trying to set up a -- a context, in which he can, somehow, after the fact, if he loses, claim that the -- that the election was unfair. there's no evidence of that. chris wray's testified to that, on capitol hill, and been scolded by the president for -- for stating what his professional opinion was. so, you know, again, none of this should be particularly surprising when it comes to the president's behavior. but i think what we need to do is rely on the factual information from the nonpolitical elements of our intelligence community. to help warn both our election officials and also reassure voters. their votes. they can vote. they -- they have a plan to vote. cast your vote. your vote will be counted. and -- and the systems will be protected. and, guess what? there are a lot of good professionals overlooking that system, and trying to make sure

that that's -- that that's exactly what the result is. >> do you see this as a big change, in terms of how, certainly, the fbi and, you know, decisions that were made back in 2016 about being so close to the election and, you know, whether to go public with what the intelligence community knew or not? >> yeah. well, look. i think it's -- it's a sea change from what we saw in 2016. and you know, the great irony there was jim comey didn't want to -- said he didn't want to interfere with the election, so wouldn't sign onto the statement that was released by the rest of the intelligence community, that russians were interfering in the election. and then, turned around, ten days before the election, and reopened the e-mail case and i think did a lot of damage to secretary clinton. so the -- the -- comey was sort of schizophrenic about it. i'm glad that chris wray has taken the position that he's going to let the american people know what's going on. >> we actually have some

breaking news on this. j john podesta, thank you very much. new reporting in "the washington post" considering director christopher wray and what is reportedly the president's growing frustration that wray is not delivering the kind of election boost with investigations that he has been openly calling for. josh dawsey joins us by phone. what is going on? what have you learned? >> well, the president's frustrated that christopher wray has not backed him on claims of voter fraud, on antifa, and now on hunter biden. and, you know, you saw the letter last night from christopher wray, where he said the fbi had nothing more to add and was following the precedent of the ig from, you know, the comey investigation in 2016. and, you know, they have been reticent to do what the president has wanted them to do publicly. he's called repeatedly for investigations into, you know, hunter biden. he's called joe biden a criminal, without offering any substantial evidence to that claim. and his law-enforcement bodies are now coming under fierce

scrutiny from the president. i mean, the president has been disenchanted, disillusioned, dispirited, whatever you would say about chris wray, for many months. but the fbi's handling or lack of a public statement or lack of any sort of indication that they're investigating hunter biden and different revelations has really frustrated the president. and a number of aides across the white house today told us after the election, christopher wray is likely to be removed as fbi director, no matter how it ends. >> so, if this is something the president wants to do after the election, is that regardless if he wins or loses? i mean, obviously, if the president loses, he'll be a lame duck but i guess he can still fire the fbi director. >> we were told that it's a high possibility, either way. you know, he will have the time from november until january, if he loses. if he wins, he will have, you know, four more years. and the fbi directors serve

extended terms. the president obviously fired james comey. it was a poor personnel decision and he wants a new fbi director. and, you know, our indications from across the government, as i said, anderson, is that he is looking for a new fbi director, one way or the other, after the election. >> josh dawsey, thank you. andrew mccabe. andrew, i mean, the irony of this is kind of extraordinary. we were just discussing christopher wray. and -- as being a straig straight shooter and, you know, very clear, tonight, in his comments. basically, sort of not following the line of the very political director of national intelligence in -- in -- in the way he was characterizing the -- the interference that they say is going on from iran and russia. you know all about president trump's habits of firing people. the fbi, i'm told, andrew's shot

went down. so we'll try to get back with -- with deputy -- former deputy director, andrew mccabe. tonight's other, big story is former president obama going after president trump, in a way we have never heard from an ex-president before and how it and everything else factors into tomorrow night's presidential debate. we'll have that, when we come back. t real. iphone 12 and iphone 12 pro are here on verizon 5g with the coverage of 5g nationwide, and, in more and more cities, the performance of 5g ultra wideband. get iphone 12 on us when you switch. only on verizon.

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weighing firing fbi director christopher wray. joining us for more is former fbi deputy director andrew mccabe. we obviously know president trump's habit of firing people in the fbi. do you think -- i mean, does it make sense to you that he would fire somebody -- if he loses the election, that he would go ahead and still fire the fbi director? >> well, you know, i think with president trump, you always have to be very careful about using the words, does it make sense? >> that's true. >> i mean, i think that we've seen him do things like this, many times in the past, when it's -- actually makes no sense and probably creates more problems for him than it resolves. case in point, the firing of director comey. at the end of the day, this president does not like to hear anyone tell him something he doesn't want to hear. i know that, all too personally. he wants -- he doesn't want independent, you know, leaders who follow the rule of law and obey their oaths. he wants supplicants who will do

his will and particularly his political will. and my hat's off to chris wray that he seems to be charting a course into rough waters based on the fact that he is standing up for what he believes in. >> the fbi director's term, normally, it's ten years, correct me if i'm wrong about that. >> that's right. >> so, even if he was fired by this president, if joe biden was elected and wanted to, he could rehire him, i assume? >> he certainly could. that would be kind of an unprecedented step. we've never had someone serve two terms -- two separate terms as director. but, anderson, it's important to remember that the ten-year term, although it does provide a certain amount of insulation from, you know, politics and the terms of who happens to be in the white house at any given time, the real purpose of a ten-year term was to prevent a second instance of a j. edgar hoover type director.

limit the time a director could serve so they don't accrue too much power and kind of become out of control. >> if you are christopher wray, head of the fbi, what can you do to protect your investigations from the president you know if he does, indeed, seek to fire you? >> well, i can only reach back to my own experience as acting director. and i knew and the small team we were working with at the time, we knew that, in order to protect the integrity of the russia investigation, we had to make sure that everything we knew is committed to documentary evidence. that was uploaded into fbi systems. that could not easily be removed or discarded. i felt very strongly that, if someone were to come in as the next director, for the purpose of -- of eliminating the russia investigation, shutting it down in the way that the president clearly wanted us to, at that time. they wouldn't be able do so, without creating a record that would stand the test of time and

history is exactly what happened. so, i would expect that director wray is thinking along those same lines, now. he is preserving his own thoughts, his own observations, in some sort of way, that will be memorialized in a record that will live on after his term has finished, whenever that might be. >> assuming the president wins the election and has another term, fires christopher wray, what sort of a message does that send to the fbi? he's already talked about, you know, not guaranteeing his attorney general will stick around. we all saw what he did to his last attorney general who, frankly, did nothing but, you know, push through a lot of conservatives on federal -- to become federal judges. doing exactly the president's bidding, except not recusing -- or, except he recused himself from the russia investigation. what kind of an effect would it have in a second trump term, to

have this fbi director, also, fired? >> well, i think the biggest concern among -- that we all should have and certainly fbi people have is, if there is a second trump term and if he decides to fire director wray, the question is who does he bring in behind chris wray? we have seen a steady decline in talent and -- and ethics, quite frankly, of the people who president trump has put into positions. i mean, like, case in point, the current dni who is obviously a political figure. he's really undermining the effectiveness of that role. so i am sure fbi people are very worried right now as to, if they lose the director they have, what does the next one look like? and if president trump follows his typical course, he's going to look for someone who will do his will, not someone who will live up to the requirements of the job and to protecting the american people and upholding the constitution as the fbi

mission requires. >> yeah. andrew mccabe, appreciate it. thanks. it's been a busy night until the election interference, this was the lead and deservedly so. former president of the united states giving perhaps the clearest demonstration, yet, that we're simply not living through a normal presidency. or, for that matter, normal times. the fact is former presidents simply do not criticize sitting presidents the way former president obama did this evening. for democrats, what he said this evening in philadelphia must have seemed like a tall glass of water after years in the desert. for anyone of any political stripe, also, a simple reminder. namely, one former president just going off on the current one. >> i never thought donald trump would embrace my vision. or continue my policies. but i did hope, for the sake of the country, that he might show some interest in taking the job seriously. but it hasn't happened. he hasn't shown any interest in doing the work, or helping

anybody but himself and his friends. or treating the presidency like a reality show that he can use to get attention. and by the way, even then, his tv ratings are down. so you know that upsets him. but the thing is this is not a reality show. this is reality. and the rest of us have had to live with the consequences of him proving himself incapable of taking the job seriously. at least 220,000 americans have died. >> to that point, the former president zeroed in on the current president's complacency in a time since boasting about the job he's done. >> korea identified its first case, at the same time that the united states did. at the same time. their per-capita death toll is

just 1.3% of what ours is. in canada, it's just 39% of what ours is. other countries are still struggling with the pandemic, but they're not doing as bad as we are because they've got a government that is twaelly be's paying attention. and that means lives lost, and that means an economy that doesn't work. and just yesterday, when asked if he'd do anything differently, trump said, not much. really? not much? nothing you can think of that could have helped some people keep their loved ones alive? >> beyond that, president obama went straight to the one thing that's remained constant throughout the trump presidency, which is nothing or should have nothing to do with partisanship. >> our democracy's not going to work if the people who are supposed to be our leaders lie every day. and just make things up.

i mean -- and we've just become numb to it. we've just become immune to it. every single day. fact checkers can't keep up. and -- and -- and, look. this -- this notion of truthfulness and democracy and -- and citizenship and -- and being responsible. these aren't republican or democratic principles. they're american principles. they're what we're -- they're what we -- most of us grew up learning from our parents and our grandparents. they're -- they're not white or black or latino or asian values. they're american values. human values. and we need to reclaim them. we have to get those values back

at the center of our public life. and we can. but -- but to do it, we've got to turn out, like never before. >> this comes, of course, on the eve of the final presidential debate in nashville. it will, no doubt, be the backdrop to whatever plays out on stage tomorrow night. also, factoring the president's mindset going into it. plus, polling in two battleground states. pennsylvania, where joe biden, now, according to the polls holds a ten-point lead. and florida, where he is nominally ahead by four points which also happens to be in the margin of error, so statistically, it's a dead heat in florida. vice president biden spent the day preparing for tomorrow. did not do any campaigning. so, mj, president obama among the most if not the most effective surrogates they could have asked for. what's going on with the biden campaign tonight? >> anderson, you're right. there is not a better or more

compelling surrogate for joe biden than barack obama, who can uniquely sort of make a convincing case to voters on why they should vote for biden. we saw him do that earlier this year, earlier this summer, at the democratic national convention. and certainly, saw him do that earlier today in philadelphia. you think about the case that biden is making for himself and this candidacy. first of all, he has fashioned himself this candidate of decency. and then, second -- secondly, he has run on, sort of, the accomplishments and the experience that he gained in the obama white house. and obviously, there is no better person who can attest to that. and we saw obama do that earlier today. talking about the fact that he has worked with biden for eight years in the white house. talking about the fact that he knows him, personally. he knows his family's story. and i thought, anderson, one thing that was so interesting was that obama really leaned into this idea, almost warning voters, don't even believe in the polls right now that show biden leading.

don't take all of that for granted because you all remember what happened in 2016. everybody expected that donald trump would lose. but, in the end, he won. and that has been a message that has been echoed by the biden campaign as well. his campaign manager has been saying, in recent days, i want to run as though we are trailing in the polls. and i think obama actually demonstrated that by choosing pennsylvania as the first state that he wanted to do his solo campaign stop for biden in. this is a state, as you just said, trump won narrowly back in 2016. but this time around, according to this cnn poll that just came out and other recent polls out of pennsylvania, biden currently has a ten-point lead in the state. but again, obama choosing to campaign there today just demonstrates, you know, this is not a moment in the campaign where the biden campaign wants to be taking anything for granted. >> mj lee, thanks. perspective now from former special assistant and personal aide to president obama. reggie, i mean, it's obviously

not normal for a former president to take to the trail and talk about their predecessor like president obama did tonight -- tonight. obviously, norms, you know, are out the window in -- in the trump era. why do you think the president did it? >> look. i -- anderson, thank you for having me on tonight. and thank you for doing such a great job with trying to keep the american voters and the american public informed. and i think, you know, when you look at the remarks that president obama made today in philadelphia. i think it was really based around this idea that, you know, wanting to remind people that their voice matters. and that, everyone's voice matters. the president's voice. voters in pennsylvania. voters in michigan. voters in north carolina. what we do matter and -- and has an impact on the country. and it has an impact on -- on our decency, as a country. and if you go back and look at 2016 and you look at pennsylvania, you look at michigan, you look at north carolina. you know, the -- the margins

were so slim and -- and with a few, additional voices that, maybe, stood in a longer line. that, maybe, had a better plan around making sure they had all the things taken care of that they needed to, in order to be able to vote and participate. i think those are the things that barack obama was trying to highlight by articulating what happens when you don't vote. you know? you end up with donald trump. >> yeah. he -- i mean, the president, though, spent, you know, more time referencing president trump than he actually, you know, referencing him than he previously has. maybe, the exception of the dnc speech. he even went as far as, you know, getting a jive in about the president's tv ratings, which is something that will clearly upset donald trump. and he talked about a secret, chinese bank account. it is startling -- i mean, do you -- do you think it's

personal for president obama? is it concern about, you know, the country and all the things that, you know, obamacare, his -- his signature, you know -- signature accomplishment, you know, now being challenged in the courts? >> look. look. i think, when you talk about the affordable care act or obamacare, i think that is about the american people. but i think it's, also, personal, right? i think if you really look at some of the motivating factors that inspired him to fight for it the way that he did was really around this idea that his mother passed from a terminal illness. and when she was in her final days, she spent more time worrying about how to pay her bills than -- than how to live her -- her final days in decency. so i do think that, that is --

you know, i think that's, really, a personal thing because he understands that there are so many other americans that have gone through it, and that are -- and have gone through it. and that will go through it, in the future. and having health care as a basic, human right is probably one of the most important things that's happened to this country since the new deal. >> do you think we'll hear more from president obama in the next, you know, two weeks before the election? >> look. you know, for me, and -- and i can't speak for him, specifically. but when i look at where this country was in 2015. and where i look at where we've gone today. look. i think there's nothing more important and i -- i can't -- i couldn't imagine that there are many people, including the president, that would say that there's something more important than making sure that people are well informed about the difference in choices. that people are inspired and --

and galvanized around making sure and believing that their voice matters. and i think, you know, i think when president obama was in philadelphia, today, he said to a group of -- of young, african-american folks from the philadelphia community. that, you know, a lot of people are saying that nothing has changed. but in actuality, for people saying that nothing has changed, they didn't live through the '40s and the '50s and the '60s. and so, people have to believe that, you know, this process works when we participate and make our voice heard. and when we don't, we -- we end up in places like we are today. >> reggie love, appreciate it. thanks very much. more, now, on the state of play. you saw the florida and pennsylvania polling a moment ago. cnn chief national correspondent john king joins us now with a look at the entire map. john, 13 days out, what is the

state of the race right now? >> joe biden has a lopsided advantage. we have talked about this before. 290 electoral votes. right now, the big, final debate tomorrow night. think of that as the final crossroads of the campaign. joe biden has a big lopsided advantage when it comes to money. campaign cash on hand, $177 million to $63 million for the trump campaign. plus biden has wealthy friends as well, if you will. biden campaign but groups supporting him are spending $645 million compared to $380 million for the trump campaign. in the battleground states, lopsided spending advantage right now and money in the bank heading into the final ten days of the campaign. here is the scenario you have a debate tomorrow night. the biden campaign could come out of that thinking we need to protect. if biden has a shaky debate or

trump is strong. one scenario is that the president takes away the toss-upstates, iowa, ohio, georgia, florida. president won all of those states in 2016. perfectly in the realm with momentum. then the biden strategy is protect wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania. the three most spoken words in presidential politics. michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania. biden would protect them. what if biden thinks he has a strong debate thinking not only do we have all of that money but we had a strong debate. you think, not only do you have money. michael bloomberg is spending money in florida for you. all of these democratic senate candidates are blowing the republicans away in fundraising. a lot of money to spend. you are thinking if you have a strong debate this will hold true. you will be leading in michigan, pennsylvania, wisconsin. you are in play in arizona and

leading a little bit. you are in play in iowa and georgia and florida and competitive in ohio and even close in texas, right, and in florida. if you are biden, a lot of democrats say you come out of the debate strong. think big and bold and think about making a statement. you take florida if you are joe biden, game over. if you get north carolina back from the democrats, there is just no way the president can win. there is a very important senate race there. you are the biden campaign. you start to look. two senate races in georgia. a senate race in iowa. a senate race in texas. if the democrats won texas, what a state that would be and a lot of legislative races. if biden comes out strong, leading on the map with a ton of money. then democrats start thinking about a blowout. >> stay with us. i want to bring back a cnn political director. david, your take on the state of the race right now.

obviously after 2016 there is skepticism about polling. the new polls in florida, pennsylvania, what do they tell you? >> there is skepticism. i want to show you findings inside the florida poll to show you where joe biden's strength is coming from. it is actually coming from donald trump's coalition in many places. look at the white vote in florida. you can see while donald trump is winning twhietwhites, it is 12-point margin but he won by 32 in 2016. same with independents. a group he won by four points in 2016 in florida. he is losing by ten points here. 51-41 to joe biden in florida and seniors 65 and older, he won them in 2016 by 17 points. he is losing them by 8 in this poll. joe biden is not just galvanizing the folks that were there with hillary clinton and

boosts them more. he is carving into some of donald trump's 2016 coalition. >> the fact that the trump campaign is strapped for cash right now, i guess it puts more pressure to deliver his closing message. it is worth noting hillary clinton did outraise trump in 2016 and still lost. >> that is true. she did out spend and out raise and was more of an establishment candidate. this is a president that started with a $1 billion war chest. he has been raising money since he was inaugurated back in 2017. so it is surprising he is coming into the final stretch really struggling with the financial part of this and what it means for him is that he is spending so much time having to shore up these parts of the country that he absolutely must win in order to get to 270. spending time and money in georgia and even in north carolina is time and money that can't be spent chipping away at

the blue wall at wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania. so that suspend why it is significant. the president has a lot more holes to plug than joe biden does. so r you know, he has to win florida. there is no path without florida. instead of focusing all of his money there he has to spread it across the map. >> president obama spoke in philadelphia for hillary clinton in the final days of the campaign. it wasn't enough. he made a personal appeal back then. he said do it for me essentially. you know, this is really important. this time you are saying do it for you. it is important for the country. do you think it matters this time? where did the biden campaign think obama's voice will help? >> let me go through the question from a number of perspectives. number one, it did not work last time. everybody should have skepticism as you do it but we are in a different climate now.

where was he tonight? president obama was here in philadelphia right here. if he can turn out african-american votes and motivate them in philadelphia and just as importantly in the suburbs around it, joe biden can win pennsylvania. if joe biden wins pennsylvania, he is on his way. another place is michigan. how many times have we said hillary clinton lost michigan. one reason why, turn out was down in wayne county among african-american voters. his direct appeal and his popularity with african-americans is critical. it is more than that. he is very popular in the suburbs. listen to what he said. hustle. it is aimed mostly at young voters and african-americans who sometimes say i will vote for this guy if i voted but don't show up. he said this guy does not take the job seriously. why all of the tweets, attacks on people. why doesn't the president just do his job.

that is president obama talking to the suburbs. the suburbs will decide north carolina. the suburbs around raleigh-durham will decide it. we talked about how biden has a chance if he comes out of the debate, he has a chance for a big race. barak obama knows something about it. i will show you here in a minute while i am circling the states. you come over here, here, here and here. barak obama knows what it is like to be involved in a wave election. that is what we had in 2008. when you have a wave election, you change the map. that is 2004. you see the red, 2008. you change the map. barak obama knows what it is like to have that opportunity in a wave election and he will have that chance any way he can. he lost indiana. north carolina went back. democrats do see the potential. trump's unpopularity. they see a chance to change the map and think barak obama can help. >> david, you know we saw this

unusual press conference from the fbi director. it was hastily called. is there a possibility this was hastily called because the administration, you know, did not want president obama's speech directly attacking president trump to be front and center on the news all night? >> am i think too naiive saying let's hope not. let's hope the press conference was called to inform the american people about foreign activity happening in the election. does this administration with the way it conducted itself get the benefit of the doubt, no. i don't think they do. we have no evidence. we have no reporting to suggest they were trying to knock barak obama off of the headlines, anderson. the message that the fbi director was putting out is important for voters to hear and be aware of when they are

getting incoming, fishy information. i don't want to under mine that. it is important voters hear it and stay vigilant about it. but it is hard not to ascribe political motives to everything coming out of the administration, especially talking about the "washington post" piece. this is a president who seems prepared to get rid of his fbi director and attorney general because they are not following his orders to investigate his opponents. >> how important do you think it is for president trump and for joe biden? i mean would a stumble by joe biden have a big impact you think on the race? >> i think it is far more important for president trump than it is for joe biden at this point. remember, the last impression that president trump left the american people with was that first debate performance in which some people came away from that basically saying that they believe he acted childishly. that he was unable to control

his anger. those are some of the comments that undecided voters gave us in our focus group directly after the debate. the president needs to change that perception and specifically in the minds of some of want really squishy biden -- potential biden voters. people that really don't know they want to vote for biden but they are not sure they stomach another four years for trump. he has to change that perception. >> thanks so much. don't miss the final debate tomorrow night on cnn. a special program beginning 7:00 p.m. eastern time. the news continues. i want to hand it over to chris for cuomo primetime. >> i am chris cuomo and welcome to primetime. we have breaking news on our watch. both iran and russia are actively interfering with our election right now. this comes from the head of our intelligence community just tonight.