>> yes. >> reporter: didn't change your mind. donald trump went off joe biden on the 1999 crime bill. he said it was a mistake. was that an issue for you? >> i was a law enforcement officer. joe biden didn't put anybody in prison. when you commit crimes, you go to jail. he did what politicians do. he said it was a mistake. i believe him. i'm not going to fault him for what he did over 20 years ago. >> reporter: what did you think of trump's performance at the debate? >> he was honest. he behaved himself. >> reporter: why didn't the debate change your mind about voting for trump? >> i know about trump. i believes he's a business person, not a politician. and go trump. >> reporter: you watched the debate? >> yes. >> reporter: impressed with trump's performance? >> very impressed. i love him. he's a great president. >> reporter: did you hear any plans from trump about what he plans to do for a second term?

>> i did. >> reporter: did you hear a health care plan? >> yes, i did. >> reporter: you did? >> i heard he'll protect us. >> reporter: but how? >> because he's going to protect us. he has a plan and everything. >> reporter: but he's been promising a plan for years. >> i'm sorry, i don't want to talk to you. >> i guess she just kind of ended the interview. >> reporter: she sure did, anderson. as soon as i started to tell her and press her on the fact that the president still has not delivered a health care plan despite all his promises, still isn't saying how he's going to protect people with preexisting conditions, she was out, she didn't want to talk to me anymore. that's the thing, people are so dug in that once you challenge them about the candidate, they don't want to talk to you anymore. among the 25 people i talked to, not a single one of them said that debate changed their mind at all. many of them said they didn't care about all the talk about the candidates' business dealings, about china and ukraine.

that didn't matter. trump supporters are quick to point out that biden is a career politician and the biden supporters call trump a monster and a liar. back to you. >> thank you randi, traveling all over the world about divided voters. don't miss our special report "divided we stand" inside america's anger. news continues. i want to hand it over to chris for "cuomo primetime." i am chris cuomo and this is "primetime." more than 50 million votes have already been cast. and we're 11 days out from election today. to the extent a campaign is about making a case, the issue before you as judges is whether this president has dealt with the pandemic well enough. in a short time we've jumped from 40,000 case as day to 70,000 new covid cases a day. the second highest total ever,

more than 75,000 new cases recorded just today. the highest peak was in july. 223,000 dead now. projections say that may double by the new year. did you hear this president tell you any of that last night? why not, do you think? have you ever heard of a commander in chief being rewarded at the polls for hiding the reality of a crisis? that's what lost herbert hoover the presidency to fdr during the great depression. that may be the republican trump should compare himself to, hoover, not lincoln. ignoring the virus does not make it go away. saying we are rounding the corner is another way of saying we are merely going in circles. biden says he can do better. he says that starts with owning the reality.

>> the president still doesn't have a plan. he's given up. he's quit on you. he's quit on your family. he's quit on america. we can choose a different path. >> now, it was interesting, trump's argument against biden is not plan for plan, it's damn for damn. sure, i may be dirty and have corruption allegations, so does he. that president sat on that final stage of a basis of comparison for you, listened to biden discuss how to do better and double down on saying when it comes to the pandemic, trump has done enough. >> all he talks about is covid, covid, covid because they want to scare people. and we've done so well with it. we're rounding the corner beautifully. >> denying the reality, just like hoover did during the depression. here's the good news -- as painful a lesson it has been and will continue to be, the virus

is the truth. the president may see us as red and blue, but the virus is pummelling us all the same into this mass of livid purple. fact, only one state is showing a downward trend in cases -- oregon. hit early and hard, closed down, masked up, stayed that way until it was safe to reopen. in safe ways. lots of money to help communities and schools. not perfect but good enough compared to everybody else. why doesn't the president learn from that example? maybe because the governor is a democrat and learning from it would mean making a plan, two things this president apparently hates. he decided to say instead all this bad data, temporary. >> we're fighting it and we're fighting it hard. there is a spike. there was a spike in florida and it's now gone. >> you're not fighting it hard. you are trying hard not to fight it. gone? temporary? you know who else said that? not lincoln, hoover.

about the market crash. let me show you the facts. does this look to you like the spike in florida is gone? easy way to read it. red, bad. the state which does not have a great history with case reporting transparency in hospitals or schools still just recorded its highest number of daily cases in more than two months. no part of that state is in the clear. look at it. look at the number of recent deaths in florida. trump wanted to say florida good, new york bad. well, deaths for deaths, what metric matters more than that. florida's death for that, seven day trailing average, new york's. okay? it's not even a comparison. new york is in a better place than florida. why? it's taking better steps but nobody is safe and no state can do it alone. if for no other reason, they don't have the pocket. florida is among 15 states that

has had a daily positivity rate above 10% over the last seven days. so tell us again, mr. president, how coronavirus is gone in florida. tell us. because you seem to know something that every piece of data denies. let's be honest. what is trump great at? lying, denying, defying, attacking everything except the pandemic. why? he has no how to do anything. we can't close, he says. true. how do we stay open? crickets. we have to get back to school he says. true. how? crickets. how do we get schools the money they need and testing and tracing for the communities, for ventilation, to change so our kids can be safe? his answer, a vaccine. a vaccine that won't be ready for most of us for close to a year? no plan, no plan to make a plan. and no deal on the table to get any relief to anyone. and to prove that there is no shame in his game, trump

actually went to sell his covid, his cornering, to our most vulnerable folks, the villages in florida, the nation's largest retirement community. look at them. this population in a maskless crowd, not socially distanced during the third peak of a worsening pandemic in this senior community, seriously? not one word from this president about what they should do. he knows everything they're doing puts them at risk. and not a word. why? because saying nothing about the problem, about the pandemic, is better for him in his mind. another example: have you heard him say a word about the veterans that he says he loves, right? nobody loves the veterans. have you heard one word about the huge increase in cases among veterans? 70% among v.a. patients according to the military in the last month. not a word about their pain or

how to help them, but he loves them. he was put in a position to help. his inaction has inarguably hurt. what about biden? he says he has a plan. >> i'll immediately put in place a national strategy. i'll position our country to finally get ahead of this virus and get back our lives. i'll reach out to every governor in every state, red and blue, i'll ask the new congress to put a bill on my desk by the end of january. i'll put a national testing plan in place with a goal of testing as many people each day as we're currently testing each week, a seven-fold increase. as president, i'll use the full power of the defense production act to drive the manufacturing of personal protection equipment, masks, gloves, gowns and more and ensure they're distributed equitably.

i promise you, we'll get through this and come out the other side much faster than the rate we're going now. >> now, if you really need a plan, if that's what matters to you, that the pandemic response is inadequate, you want to see better, biden may win. but trump may win as well. why? because of his inability to lead in this pandemic and all the trumpery that has gone along with it is trumped by his perceived value as an advocate for widespread animus toward politics and culture in this country. he wins. the only song you've ever heard about loving herbert hoover was sung by who? archie bunker. ♪ we could use a man like herbert hoover again ♪ ♪ didn't need a welfare state, everybody's hold his weight ♪ archie bunker, hence the sell of maga. going back to times that white

working-class people may have liked better and felt safer. which will win out? that is the proposition that will decide this election. let's discuss. let's take it to van jones and charlie dent. one rule: nothing about my singing. charlie dent, in terms of the proposition -- first, let me get you out of the way. is it true at that biden is scrubbing you for a role in his administration? >> well, i think that was just speculation in politico. i have not had any conversations with anybody in the biden campaign or transition, none. they have not contacted me. i'm not angling to get back in the government. i read that in the press as you did, chris. >> appreciate you answering the question. so trump's move -- forget about the pandemic, we're rounding the corner, just a scare tactic, we're going to get back, everything's going to get great, don't listen to these republicans, they're a bunch of pansies, i'll get you what you need. do you think it's enough to win? >> by diminishing the pandemic? >> yeah. >> of course not. of course not.

it seems to me the president's numbers are slipping in large measure with seniors because of his response to the pandemic. seniors are the most vulnerable, at-risk population and they're the most fearful. at least based on my experience they're the most fearful, and the president has been very cavalier in his response. that stunt at walter reed and drive-by admitted, then coming to the white house and taking the mask off, i think people believe he's not taking it serious enough. >> did you see him at the villages in florida, all those old people in state that matters as much as any, crowded together for him? >> you ought to talk to my mother-in-law. senior citizens with whom i speak, they're very careful and most likely to social distance and avoid meeting with people in crowds. his numbers are plummeting among seniors. i do think this pandemic response is a significant reason why. >> his answer to biden, van, is he's a bum, he's dirty and, by

the way, he's not going to get it done for you and he hates oil. >> well, i -- >> i got you, charlie. let van get in here. >> you know, it's remarkable to see a u.s. president standing on a graveyard of a quarter million americans and you ask him do you have any regrets looking back and he says, no, no regrets looking back. a quarter million americans dead. and then you ask him what's your health care plan moving forward? he goes, it's a great health care plan. but what is it? you have no regrets looking back and no plan going forward. so what is your argument for yourself? you don't like joe biden's son. that's not enough to get you re-elected in a country that expects at least competence. listen, we can have our tribal issues and differences and we

can bicker and we can fight, but it used to be the case that if you had 3,000 americans dead, 9/11, the entire country came together to figure out what to do about it. we have two 9/11s every week, every week and growing. and this president still cannot bring us together. so it's a pass/fail at this point, and this president has clearly failed. >> what's the difference between 9/11 and pandemic, everything culturally, also, common enemy identifiable and feared by all. do you think biden has made the case that all americans need to come together at all, let alone to fight this pandemic? van. >> he's making the case and trying to make the case and trying to be heard. i don't think anybody doubts that under a biden administration there would be less rancor and chaos and crazy and foolishness and shenanigans and nonsense going on. and i think right now you got a lot of people who they're

just -- people are just tired. they're exhausted. and, you know, biden sometimes seems like he wants to be captain quarantine, and he has to be clear that he's talking about a safe reopening, not a permanent shutting down. he makes a mistake sometimes of defending masks more than he talks about how he's going to get everybody's kids out of our houses and back to school. but i think nobody watching those two guys last night could come away thinking that joe biden is somebody who wants to divide america. >> ordinarily the insurgent would be pushing anger and fear. look at pandemic, the economy, what you've done to the rest of us. ironically it's trump pushing it, even though he's the one with the record and the mandate to be doing something about it. listen to what he said the other day about biden's running mate. if there were any questions about what senator purdue was

up to the other day when they said he just mispronounced her name. >> biden's running mate, the most liberal -- and by the way, kamala will not be your first female president. she will not be the first female president. we're not supposed to have a socialist. we're not going to a socialist nation, we're not going to have a socialist president, especially a female socialist president. we're not going to have it, we're not going to put up with it. >> the only thing worse than a socialist, charlie, is a female socialist who happens to be brown with a weird name. she might as well be the female version of that hussein obama guy. >> look, those comments are disrespectful and insulting. there's no place for it. the president doesn't have the capacity to differentiate himself with joe biden and kamala harris on policy. he's simply incapable of articulating the argument. many of us watched that debate and said, hey, the president seemed semi normal last night. the bar was low. he doesn't have the capacity to

debate policy. he doesn't have enough of a substantive view of the world to make the arguments. that's always been the problem. that's why he resorts to name calling, insults, ad hominem attacks. >> and because it works, especially in a culture where people have opposition as the mandate and disdain as the mode. he didn't make a mistake about kamala instead of kamala. weird name, weird color, women, women socialists, all bad, not down with what we used to love. feel safe with. he's saying it with purpose. it's not not style or not being politician, it's both. that is his style and he's the ultimate politician. will it work? >> you know, it is working for his core base. they love that stuff. they understand that he is giving the middle finger to what i was taught are basic norms and values. now it's called being p.c., being respectful of people.

not offend people for no reason in the world, basically how i was raised and pretty much everybody else was raised. now they've relabeled basic manners and decorum as p.c. and they can throw these barbs around. they think it's cute and think it's funny. people are watching. people are watching. there are a lot of people that wish they could be a part of the conservative movement. there are a lot of people of color who are quite conservative. they are business owners, they are people of faith. they cannot be a part of this movement. he is chasing away people who would otherwise appreciate some of the things he's done on criminal justice and many other things. people can't hold their nose, though, for that kind of stuff. whatever good deeds he's done, which he likes to brag on, his bad words overwhelm those deeds over and over and over again. people are watching. he's paying a price he may not know. >> we'll see. van jones, charlie dent, happy

heads and good health to both of you. be well. least racist guy in the room. "this kamala." least racist. why did you say it like that? how do we get jobs back? if we keep going backwards with the virus? how big a task do we have? what does recovery look like? economics connected to the pandemic. someone who knows the intricate tie. tom friedman. on a friday night, what could be better? scotch. with this seal, this restaurant is committing to higher levels of cleanliness. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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for pre-existing conditions in place. tell our leaders in washingtn to stop playing games with our healthcare. at morgan stanley, a global collective of thought leaders offers investors a broader view. ♪ we see companies protecting the bottom line by putting people first. we see a bright future, still hungry for the ingenuity of those ready for the next challenge. today, we are translating decades of experience into strategies for the road ahead. we are morgan stanley. i'll be eating chicken tikka masala with garlic naan. [doorbell chimes] cheers. i win again, patrick. that's siiir patrick. oooooow. sir.

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for world war ii. she was only 17. bring your family history to life like never before. get started for free at ancestry.com after last night's debate, who was ahead on what is usually the biggest issue in an election, the economy? trump. but he gets crushed on the pandemic. why aren't the two seen as umbilically inextricably linked? if you don't deal with the pandemic, you can't get the economy back, which has gotten crushed by the pandemic. this is a connection that the "new york times" columnist tom friedman knows well. also best selling book "from beirut to jerusalem," very important about the future of our foreign relations. tom, good to see you on a friday night. why don't people score the economy as a function of the pandemic?

>> well, people do at some level realize that the pandemic was something of a meteor, you know, that landed on us. so i think they're giving the president some running room there. and maybe biden could be a little more energetic and exciting about painting the kind of future that a biden administration would bring to us in terms of the kind of investments in infrastructure, in clean energy that might get people a little bit more excited. biden's also working with a legacy of the democratic campaign that he had to deal with from people to his left. so trump's got a little bit of running room over there. but that can change very quickly. >> but duration is what's been killing us with the virus. this has been going on since february, and even though he's had plenty of time to do something about it, he hasn't. that's what kept people from being able to reopen, and that's

what crushed the economy. >> chris, this is the central i would say, dishonesty of trump. it's not masks or jobs. it's not social distancing or big ten football. it's masks for jobs. it's social distancing so you can open restaurants, do some outdoor functions, do some collective functions. the crazy thing about the president is that if he actually adopted some of the just basic health measures that are working everywhere in the world rather than spurning them as politically incorrect, they would actually enhance the economy. that's what's so crazy about it. a mask is not a cultural marker. a mask is a mask and masks allow to you have more jobs, more activity. and spurning those is what is so crazy about the whole thing. >> see whether or not it works. the idea of what was gained and

lost in advantage last night, biden was called to the carpet about two things, saying, yeah, i'm going to get rid of oil and, two, no, i never said i was against fracking and then said, yeah, fracking wouldn't have any part of your future to dana bash. he ghot got caught on those, you see that as not weakness for biden but missed opportunities. how so? >> i wish he would have turned to the president and said since you're a stable genius, can you tell me the four leading wind generation states in america, because they're called texas, iowa, oklahoma and kansas. four red states. you know why? because they're in transition. can you tell me which major company was thrown out of the dow? replaced by salesforce. it's called exxon mobil because they're in transition. mr. president, do you know there are ten times more people

working in the clean green energy industries in america today than in coal, oil and natural gas? because these companies are in transition. mr. president, did you know that 72% of the new electricity generation worldwide in 2019 came from renewables? because they're in transition. guess what, mr. president, the stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones. it ended because we invented metal tools and the oil age isn't going to end because we run out of oil. it's going to end because we invent renewables. and the countries that are going to win that race, chris, are the ones who are already in transition, mr. president. >> you know what scares about that message? what about the workers now, tom. remember pop had that line about the thick fingered laborer, like his father whose fingers were not suited to

anybo nimbleness of a keyboard. >> i'm not talking about computer jobs. i'm talking about making every building energy efficient, thick finger jobs, building electric vehicles, those are thick finger jobs. installing solar panels, those are thick finger jobs. there are ten times more people working in renewable energy with thick fingers than there are with fossil fuels. the argument is over. the industry is in transition, and the companies that aren't are the ones that are going to go the way of the stone age. and we should -- democrats should want to own this. we as a country should want to own this. i don't want to go from importing oil from the middle east to importing clean energy efficiency tools from china and miss the whole thing because we are not in transition because we have a president who is so wedded to the stone age he wants to go down with oil. and i don't care to go with him. >> tom friedman, incisive and appreciated. thank you very much, brother. be well. best to you and the family. >> appreciate it.

>> what is happening with the interference factor in this election? we all got spooked the other night. they came out and gave us an unusual presser during the election from the intel people, unusually timed to the day that obama came out and gave that thumping to trump. if russia and iran are actively meddling with this vote right now, as the trump administration says, but he is so quiet, how do we protect it? what are we doing? what should be done? former cia director john brennan is here on a friday night next. , to save you up to 60%. these are all great. and when you get a big deal... ♪ ...you feel like a big deal. ♪ priceline. every trip is a big deal. proof i can fight moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. proof i can fight psoriatic arthritis...

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boy, we were all there at night together, right, the sudden presser, the fbi and dni commanding attention on the same day that former president obama opened a can of whoop ass on trump. but then they didn't agree on the interference threat.

what's the point? is it to help or hurt trump? they gave us different versions. they gave us proof of emails that certainly would help trump but not proof of anybody trying to hurt him. then what happens? they rush out sanctions against iran for, quote, executing malign influence operations aimed at misleading u.s. voters. okay. what about russia? nothing about that. despite the fbi director saying russia is stealing voter information right now and saying this more than a month ago -- >> russia continues to try to influence our elections, primarily through what we would call maligned foreign influence. >> well, they're waiting. they're going to hit russia -- no, they did hit russia. on monday they charged, the department of justice, six russian grus, like their spy operation officers, with malware attacks including targeting of

french elections and the 2018 olympics. today the treasury department sanctioned russia as a government institution for malware attacks in the middle east. but nothing to do with what they're doing here. why? let's talk threat assessment and action with former cia director john brennan. he has a new book, "undaunted: my fight against america's enemies at home and abroad" and as part and parcel of that work for this country, and welcome to "primetime," would be dealing with russia. what are we supposed to believe about this threat, director, that it was to help or hurt trump? they only gave us proof of one. the fbi and dni seem to have different stories. >> i wish the director of the national intelligence had more credibility at this point. i think the american people need to know and deserve to know what the nature of the threat is to our upcoming election.

and unfortunately, john john ratcliffe has demonstrated time and again that he has politicized his position by doing things in support of donald trump. and so that press statement the other night when both john ratcliffe and chris wray came out, it was rather puzzling. although iran has cyber capability, no doubt about that, russia has much more sophisticated capabilities and its presence in social media, which is the vector it uses to influence attitudes, sentiments and votes, it's much more pervasive, insidious and damaging than iran's. >> why move on iran and not russia? >> well, i think it's because donald trump really is hoping that the russians are going to continue to help him win this coming election the way they helped him last time. it is clear that the russians favor trump, as they did in 2016, but iran has been the target of much of trump's wrath.

again, this is part of a distraction as he highlights the iranian threat and tends to downplay the russian threat, which is what ratcliffe did the other day. he said iran was trying to hurt trump but he didn't say at all what the russian efforts and intentions are. >> not to be cynical, but what do they need to interfere with in terms of the narrative they're pushing when the president says the same thing, the system is rigged, i don't think it's going to be fair, proud boys stand by, you know, stand ready, whatever that not-so-subtle message was. what do they need to get involved for? he's making more damage than they could. >> well, i think you're right, but that doesn't mean they're not going to try to augment his efforts and amplify a lot of his messaging, including about fraudulent election. but the russians really have been on social media and misrepresent themselves as american citizens, as american entities. and, again, they're trying to ensure that trump's message is

getting out far and wide. and if they are navigating some of the state electoral systems, it does raise the concerns, as we had in 2016, that they might try to do something on a technical front, like on the day of the election, that could cause some chaos at the election booth by bringing down voter registration rolls. i think they make the money, the russians, mostly on the influence operations, malign operations and that is in the social media environment. >> what is your thought of our state of readiness for what might happen after the election, especially immediately after in terms of threat profile, and what is your take on the efforts that have been made by this government to protect the system from any such activities? >> i'm sure my former colleagues in the intelligence community and law enforcement and homeland security are doing their level best to try to prevent the russians, iranians, anybody from

interfering in the election, whether it be foreign or domestic. however, as we've seen what donald trump is doing, he is fueling the polarization within our country. he is egging on those elements that tend to be rather extremist, those on the right. i really am concerned what he may do in the lead up to the election but then in the aftermath if he believes he's not going to be re-elected. the powers of a president are enormous, and he clearly is not abiding by the norms and standards of former presidents. so, therefore, i really do worry about what he might do and what tactic he might engage in in order to try to preserve his presence in the white house. >> john brennan, the book is called "undaunted, my fight against america's enemies at home and abroad." people often say it's weird that nobody attacked us, thank god. it's not weird, it's not an accident. read the book. it's a rare pleasure to have you on this show, and thank you for

your service to this country. be well. >> thank you very much. >> let's turn from the threat to the search for a real governmental response. not just in terms of interference but in terms of getting relief to so many hurting from this pandemic. two topics, one senator, angus king of maine. good to see you, sir. >> good to be with you, chris. >> do you share director brennan's concerns that this president, if he were to lose, may not peacefully transfer power? >> i do. that's not speculation. he's been asked that question several times directly and he's punted and said, well, we'll see. that's not a very reassuring response. and by the way, chris, the peaceful transfer of powers is one of the things that's distinguished this country from the rest of the world ever since our founding. for the president to say that and at the same time, as you suggested, to denigrate the democratic process saying if i don't win, it's rigged and

fraudulent, that's a very dangerous message because our system is based upon the trust it's based upon the trust of the citizens that the system works, that who gets the most votes wins. and for him to undermine that -- and it's the same message, by the way, that the iranians and russians are pushing -- is really dangerous for the country. >> do you think your brothers and sisters on the right in the gop would go along with that? >> well, i'm not sure. i mean, they are certainly reluctant, as you well know, as everybody knows, to criticize this president at this time. i think there may be a difference of how they -- what they talk about behind closed doors and what they say publicly. but i can't imagine any of my colleagues who aren't concerned about the issue of the peaceful transfer of power. john brennan was talking about and christopher wray about the malign influence, the social

media. there's another piece of this that was announced the other day and that is the russians are burrowing into our election infrastructure. they did this in 2016, and i remember saying at the time they didn't do anything, all the intelligence was they didn't change any votes, they didn't do anything but they were in most of the states' infrastructure. my comment was they weren't doing it for fun. and i'm worried that -- and they don't have to do the whole country. all they have to do is mess up the rolls in -- >> none of systems have been hardened, right? >> they have been hardened. we're in a lot better shape. i want to be a little bit reassuring. >> i get different takes on it. i want to hear yours. >> the states are in a lot better shape now than they were in 2016 but they're not invulnerable. what we learned this week, and we learned it back in the summer, that the russians are starting to plant malware and be ready to contribute to the chaos. chris, these guys don't like democracy. they don't want it to work. that's their goal. they don't have to change votes. they just have to sow doubt and

undermine what it is that makes this country -- you know, had been the envy of the world. >> who are you talking about, trump or the russians? >> i'm talking about the russians right now. >> sorry senator. want to ask you something now, straight talk with angus. the president says nancy pelosi is holding up a deal. he said to joe biden sometimes you got to talk to your people and make them do it. we're told mcconnell said to the white house, forget it, i'm not screwing up the judge's confirmation, we're not going to get a vote down now, not going to get the votes right now. what's the truth? >> i think the latter is the truth. mcconnell has been reported -- i didn't hear it but it's been reported he told the white house he didn't want a deal before the election. look, chris, nancy pelosi had the house pass a covid relief bill on may 15th. mitch mcconnell never brought it up. not only did he not bring it up, he never entered into any kind of negotiations. he never came to chuck schumer

or to the white house or to nancy pelosi and said, okay, let's sit down and make a deal. it never happened. >> but isn't that bad for trump? doesn't trump benefit from a deal right now? >> he certainly would. and it would have benefited even more if a deal had happened a month ago. the house, by the way, passed another bill. they reduced -- the bill they passed in may was $3 trillion worth of stimulus. they passed another bill, two or three weeks ago, $2 trillion, brought the offer down by a third. no response. the president said we're not going to negotiate, and the next day said yes we are. mitch mcconnell has been missing from the table. >> why would he do the president dirty on something that matters this much? >> who knows. he may think, you know, this will not help the president and if joe biden is elected, it will help joe biden. he doesn't want to help joe biden. but look, chris, this shouldn't be about joe biden or the president or the election. this ought to be about the american people. there are people losing their

apartments, they're losing their incomes, they're -- >> waiting in line for food. >> 10 million people have lost their health care in this pandemic. and this is all games about who it's going to help and whether you ought to give this gift to joe biden or trump. what about the poor guy that's trying to make his payments? that's who we ought to be thinking about. >> she loses. just like they always do in a culture of opposition. when opposition is rewarded in a binary system, the loser is the person who is supposed to be served. if opposition is the line for success and nonachievement, who is going to lose? the constituents. senator angus king, i know you're always pushing for progress to get things done for your state and the rest of the country. you're appreciated for it. i wish you good health. >> good heath to you, chris. thank you. >> take care. now, the incumbent is the underdog maybe. national polls, but i'm telling you state by state, you got to keep looking at this. things are changing, they're

close. and he believes, mr. trump, that he is already the greatest president ever, maybe except for abraham lincoln. well, what does the past in terms of presidential behavior tell us in terms of points of comparison with trump? and is he picking the right republican to compare himself to this moment? should it really be another republican who lost because of how they coped with a crisis in a very famous election that shaped this country for decades to come? doris kerns goodwin with the inside scoop of history next. who's supporting prop 15?

joe biden. biden says, "every kid deserves a quality education and every family deserves to live in a safe, healthy community. that's why i support prop. 15." vote yes. schools and communities first is responsible for the contents of this ad. the unfair money bail system. he, accused of rape. while he, accused of stealing $5. the stanford rapist could afford bail; got out the same day. the senior citizen could not; forced to wait in jail nearly a year. voting yes on prop 25 ends this failed system, replacing it with one based on public safety. because the size of your wallet shouldn't determine whether or not you're in jail. vote yes on prop 25

to end money bail. vote yes on prop 25 who's supkamala harris.5? harris says, "a corporate tax loophole has allowed billions to be drained from our public schools and local communities. no more. i'm proud to support prop 15." vote yes. schools and communities first is responsible for the content of this ad. nobody has done more for the

black community, than donald trump. and if you look, with the exception of abraham lincoln, possible exception, but the exception of abraham lincoln, nobody has done what i've done. >> abraham lincoln here is one of the most racist presidents we've had in modern history. >> last night was just one of many comparisons this president has made between himself and abraham lincoln. remember this, last week? >> i can be more presidential than any president in our history, with the possible exception of abraham lincoln when he wore the hat. that was tough to beat. >> you know what? he's actually telling the truth. not about lincoln but himself. he could be more presidential. he could always about the way he did last night in the debate. he chooses not to because he thinks being cruel and being divisive works better for him. not exactly lincoln-esque.

any figure of the past or tragic figures of the past is how he is dealing with crisis. crisis is, often, defining in a presidential legacy. he keeps pointing to history. but, what has he actually learned from it? let's bring in doris kern-goodwin. presidential historian. the author of "leadership in turbulent times." perfect book. perfect point of comparison. perfect guest. thank you for being on prime time. >> glad to be here. >> so, what do we see by looking at lincoln or others in times of crisis and how that is instructive of what we are seeing with trump? >> well, the most important thing in a time of crisis is for a president to be willing to take responsibility. one of fdr's aides, robert sherwood, said when things are going all right, people don't have to think a lot about the character of the man in the

presidency. but when there is adversity setting in, and individuals have problems too big for them to solve, they need leadership. they need national guidance, they need a collective response so that they can work together to solve the crisis. and the interesting thing, when you think about what he said about president lincoln. he said i've done more for black americans than any other president, with the exception of lincoln. lincoln would never talk that way. he said don't call me a liberator. it was the anti-slavery movement and the soldiers who did it all. it's the civil rights movement that made achievements of lyndon johnson's administration which are far greater than trump's. he, himself, said, lbj did, the american -- you are responding to pressure and leaning into that pressure that produces great, social justice. >> enough with the white-savior narrative that he thinks he can

subscribe to and get somewhere. the only people who really have ever helped blacks in a meaningful way are other blacks. and obviously, we know you can't end prejudice with the minority. the majority has to do it. doris, what do you think of this? you won't hesitate to tell me i'm off. easy enough to do. he's comparing himself to the wrong republican in time of crisis. forget about lincoln. it's hoover, he should be comparing himself to. hoover was there at the start of the great depression and he was in denial of it. his messaging was in denial of it. he said it'd be a quick turn. wound up costing him the election. is that a better point of comparison? >> i think it is because the great failure for trump was not taking that national -- he called himself, at one point, a wartime president. and what that would have meant is mobilizing all the national resources you have. defense production act, not just respirators and not just ppe but perhaps making sure that schools

are safely reopened, the money it would take. making sure that businesses can come back. making sure that there is rapid testing. and what hoover was unable to do was he didn't think it was the federal government's responsibility to deal with the depression. it should be individuals. it should be private and charity. it should be local and state governments. when it didn't work, it was fdr who assumed responsibility, even as governor of new york, he said it's my responsibility as the state governor to produce unemployment insurance, to put people to work, to take care of the food and clothing. and that's what catapulted him into the presidential race and that's why it was a landslide. one person took responsibility. that's the most important thing a leader can do. individuals need that for collective action. hoover didn't do it. fdr did and it was a big win. so we'll see what happens. >> why do you think trump didn't do it? it seemed to me, all along, as a no-brainer fwor him no-brainer for him to say i'm going to do more, i'm going to

give them everything. what i call the wall mentality. find money everywhere you can. force businesses to make deals for you. all the things, he says he loves to do. why did he choose this path of denial about the pandemic? >> you know, it's really a mi mystery to me. because when he knew, back in january, how serious it was, if he had gotten ahead of the virus, right then, he could have been a leader in a crisis. he could have been that person who started us on the path toward the lockdowns, which then might have been reduced and begun to open. we might be more open now. we might be at a lower level of virus as we hit this -- this fall and winter break. there was a really interesting moment when he said he thought the biggest decision he'd ever have to make in his life, and he hoped to god he got it right, was how and when to open the states. and he knew, in the long run, in a few days, he didn't have the power to do that but he certainly had the power as an inspirer, as someone who could

give to the states to reopen in the right way. and somehow, he never fully exercised that. he left it to the states and then took after the states, liberate michigan, when he didn't like what they were doing. but it's -- i don't know the answer to that. i think it will be a really interesting thing for historians, years from now. even when there was a moment in the hospital when he spoke on that video. and he said i understand the virus. i thought, maybe, he'll come out and say something like now i understand how it spreads. i saw that rose garden event. maybe, people should be wearing masks. i won't make it political. maybe, there should be social distancing. there were chances he had to take hold of this crisis. and then, maybe, he would have had his desire to be remembered by history. >> chris christie's doing it now. to borrow another title of one of your books, wait until next year. that was about the dodgers. it will also apply to our entire society. doris kearns-goodwin, thank you as always. we'll be right back.

>> i'm glad to be with you. t ♪ ♪ don't know what it is ♪ ♪ get a dozen double crunch shrimp for one dollar with any steak entrée. only at applebee's. we knew that this was. really, really bad. we had ample forewarning. but we did almost no testing, almost no contact tracing. completely ignored the science, completely ignored the warning signs. there were things that could have been done. a lot of people have died needlessly, and there's nothing more frustrating than feeling like you're fighting against someone who should have your back. we are not going to stamp this out unless we have a change of leadership. ff pac is responsible for the content of this ad.

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