and good evening. it is, as you know, just six days until election day, during an election season that he 's b defined by one thing. coronavirus. doesn't bend to any one candidate's bill, left unchecked, or not taken seriously. it simply rages.

that is what the virus is doing right now across this country. and according to health experts, that's what it will continue to do, long past election day. but tonight, as both campaigns crisscross the country, we are getting another reminder of just how cynical the trump administration has always been about the pandemic that has now killed nearly 228,000 americans. we, now, know from the words of the president's own son-in-law on tape to bob woodward, in newly released clips, clips we had never heard before, that the plan was, from the start, what we had long suspected it was but ho hoped it wasn't. simply put, by jared kushner, himself, the plan was to leave the hard work of tracking and containing the virus to the states. that's all the messy work. the stuff that's -- you might get blamed for. the plan was they take credit for success. human lives be damned. the opening up. it's -- it really is that simple and that clear and that sad. the president and in this case,

jared kushner, said it out loud. you will hear for yourself when bob woodward joins us later in the program tonight. when the white house had just released this list of accomplishments, take a look on the science and technology front, as you can see, the top bullet reads ending the covid-19 pandemic. according to them, they are ending the pandemic. by the time the night was over, the data team at johns hopkins university had reported 73,240 new covid cases for the day, and 985 deaths. >> that's a bad position to be in. as we continue into the cool months of the fall and, soon, the cold months of the winter. we're starting seeing something going in the wrong direction. >> that's dr. anthony fauci, today, echoing his exact same, unheeded warning about going in the wrong direction, from before the last, big peak. and here is a fellow task force member, today, directly rebutting the president's repeated and false claim that our only problem is that we're

testing too gosh darn much. >> it's not just a function of testing. yes, we're getting more cases identified. but the cases are actually going up, and we know that, too, because hospitalizations are going up. now, the peak was in the 70,000s in july. we're at about 42-43,000, now. so we're much less than july. but those are going up. those are real. and we do know that deaths are increasing, unfortunately. so, we do assess that the cases are, actually, going up. they're real. because hospitalizations and deaths are starting to go up. >> in fact, cnn has just obtained the task force's weekly report to states and the outlook is grim. and i am quoting now from it. we continue to see unrelenting broad community spread in the midwest, upper midwest, and west. wisconsin public health officials are reporting more than 3,800 new cases today and a staggering 27.2% positivity rate. kansas officials reporting a record-high number of people in icu beds. the governor there ordering flags to fly at half staff through sundown on friday to

honor the lives lost. indiana officials say they are seeing the highest number of people hospitalized since the pandemic began. now, ordinarily, this is the part where we would play you a clip of the president saying, oh, we're rounding the turn or rounding the corner or there is light at the end of the tunnel. we're not going to play you that, tonight. not because he's not still saying it. he is. he's still complaining about too much testing. he's still holding potential superspreader, campaign events. but there is no reason to show it because it's no longer news. news would be the president encouraging people to wear a mask. that would be new. to do it for their friends and their neighbors and for the country. news would be the president addressing the pandemic honestly. but, the president, his people, are doing none of those things. they can't even admit, at the very moment that cases in this country are spiraling out of control, that the idea of declaring victory over the coronavirus is absurd, let alone obscene. >> how can ending the pandemic be the top accomplishment of the

white house? >> look. i think the president took leadership on this issue, very early on, when so many on the left refused to acknowledge it. lied about all the malfeasance and covered it up. >> i'm talking about ending it. do you think that the pandemic has ended? >> well, we're moving in the right direction. >> almost a thousand people still die -- i mean, hogan, i'm just talking about the language. why does it say as the top, ending the covid-19 pandemic? do you think it has ended? >> i don't know who said that. >> you think that's erroneous? >> i don't know. i have not seen the document. >> no, but i'm reading it to you. >> i'm just telling you we're moving in the right direction. >> that person is a paid spokesman for the white house. sad. 985 americans died, yesterday, because of covid. they're dead. the experts warn it could get worse. yet, as you'll hear for

yourself, tonight, when bob woodward joins us, it has long been the plan of this president to not take responsibility. that was the plan. only, to make others do the hard work, the states, the governors. second guess them, at every turn, strong arm his own experts into soft peddling the risks and loosen his own guidelines. >> the last thing was kind of doing the guidelines, which was interesting. and that, in my mind, was almost like, you know, it was almost like trump getting the country back from the doctors, right? in the sense that, what he now did was, you know, he's going to own the open-up. >> those damn doctors trying to control the country. trump got it back from the doctors. opened it up. getting the country back from the doctors, and then he'll own the open-up. that's what he said. he'll own the open-up. meaning, dodge the blame for a botched response. blame governors, leave it up to

the states, do all the messy work, you know, the testing, the contact tracing, all that sort of stuff. you know, the deaths. claim credit for the open-up. and that's what he is still doing but with election day nearing and cases climbing, new cnn polling shows what voters think of the approach. only 39% now say they think he would do a better job against the pandemic as opposed to 57% for joe biden. that's double the deficit he had back in april. in some of the states where the pandemic is raging hardest, people have already been voting by the tens of millions. here is our chief national correspondent, john king. so, john, president had two stops in arizona today. senator harris held a rally in tucson. who has the edge there? >> the democrats do, anderson. we lean it blue right now. it's one of the reasons we have joe biden across the finish line with a handful of days to go because he is rewriting the map. he is getting wisconsin, michigan, and pennsylvania. they're leaning blue. they went red in 2016. arizona's been a republican state. you have to go back to bill clinton. we lean it blue right now, which

is why president trump's trying to get it back. he is in a hard race to try to find some way to get to 270. that's why he is there. but i want to switch maps to 2016. it was pretty close, not as close as pennsylvania, wisconsin, and michigan. but 49 to 45.5. here is the battle. maricopa county is 60% plus of the state. guess what, anderson? the suburbs are already turning against trump. you have a lot of latino voters in arizona. you were just talking about coronavirus. give me one second here. look at this overlay, when i bring you back to the state of arizona. the red is bad about the coronavirus. look at all of this coronavirus. one of the states especially hardest hit. so the demographics of arizona were changing, anyway. covid makes the president's challenge all the more steep. >> in michigan, virtually, all the heavy hitters are passing through there this week. the question is obviously whether the trump campaign can

pull off a repeat of what happened in 2016 where he had the win there. what does it look like? >> yet another poll, today, saying not now. not now. we'll watch for late momentum. that's what happened in 2016. but another poll, today, showing a double-digit lead for joe biden. and again, i am going to stick with this map because, again, the president not just running against joe biden. he's running against his record. he is running against his record on this coronavirus. michigan, not as bad as some of the other states. up here, you notice in the upper peninsula, this tends to be republican country. early on, michigan had a problem. they have done a pretty good job slamming down the positivity rate. we'll wait to see what happens with the most recent surge. but one of the dynamics here, anderson, is the president has been at war with the democratic governor, repeatedly. not only does he have a huge gender gap, she gets high marks from most voters. not many hardcore republicans but from most voters, she gets high marks on how she's handled coronavirus. so the president is picking a fight about leadership that he is losing right now. >> how is it looking in wisconsin? because the governor's saying they're facing an urgent crisis.

obviously, could influence who people vote for. >> again, 16 votes here. 10 votes here in the electoral college. right? the president needed them both. let me move over to wisconsin. you see a lot more read herd he. you see a lot more red. this is not what you want in the final week of a campaign. these are the headlines today in wisconsin. worst day, yet again. record deaths in wisconsin, right now, from the coronavirus in the final day of the campaign. wisconsin state journal. now, a nightmare scenario. covid is getting as much, if not more, attention, the campaign in the final days. so let's just pull it out. show you one more way to look at this, if you come up in here. trump's approval on coronavirus in michigan and wisconsin, right? this is the new abc/"washington post" poll out today. 42% in michigan approve his handling of coronavirus. 39 in wisconsin. guess what? when you look at the ballot, he is getting about 40% in michigan.

how do people think he is handling coronavirus? it matches up, almost exactly, to what he is getting at the ballot right now. you can't win an election at 44%. that's one of the challenges for the president right now. he is in the low 40s, he is struggling. >> john king. just to make sure, just to clarify, these are all based on poll numbers. it's not actual votes. so, i mean, it all depends on how many votes have been cast, so far. who they voted for and who is going to come forward on election day and the days before that. >> it absolutely does. this is a poll. this is just a public-opinion poll. the early-voting numbers, everywhere, right now, favor the democrats but we're not done. we're not done. the question is democrats are leading now. can they sustain that to the finish line? it's an excellent point. >> john king, appreciate it. we are going to check back in with you shortly. just before airtime, i spoke with former democratic presidential candidate, bernie sanders, and senator from vermont. >> senator sanders, how are you feeling about where the biden-harris campaign is right now? and the chance of democrats taking the senate? >> i'm not one who speculates on elections, anderson.

i am cautiously optimistic. and all that i can say is that i and everybody i know is going to be working as hard as we can for the next five days to make sure that biden wins. this is the most important election, not only in our lifetimes but, in the modern history of this country. and i will do everything i can to see that trump is defeated. >> in 2016, senator clinton was ahead in many of the same states that biden is, according to polls. ahead, and obviously didn't get the electoral votes. do you see a difference, this time, in the kind of support that biden has? >> i think so. i mean, the difference is that, after four years, people now know donald trump and they know his record. and you look at states, like wisconsin or michigan, these are people -- these are states that are now dealing with this terrible pandemic. and people understand, that you have a president who has rejected science.

a president, who tells them, on tv, tonight, that we are -- we're -- we're defeating the pandemic. and they're seeing it surging in their states. so, i think people have a sense of who trump is, his anti-science attitude. i think people, anderson, are sick and tired, really, of his lying, every single day. they are concerned about his threats to the foundations of american democracy. they're upset and -- and tired of his racism and his sexism and his xenophobia. so, you know, i think it is a different circumstance. and i think biden, while i am not overly confident, you know, i'm going to work as hard as i can, i think biden stands a very good chance of winning. >> it's interesting the president is doing these -- you know, still doing these large rallies, getting people together, no social distancing. you know, the only people told, really, to wear masks are the people standing behind him who are seen on television. you know, everybody else, who is standing in front of him, most

of them aren't -- aren't wearing masks. i don't understand why he would do this. i mean, i know it makes him feel good to, like, perform in front of a large audience. and, maybe, feel that he has momentum. but to me, it seems like anybody looking at this would see this as the -- emblematic of the recklessness that this administration has had toward this entire pandemic. >> you know, anderson, you're talking to a guy who loves rallies. i'm a big rally guy, myself. but i think we have held, my campaign, some of the largest rallies of this entire election cycle. and so, i understand why trump, you know, wants to do it. it's fun to be talking to thousands of people and seeing your supporters out there. but your point is very well taken. i mean, while it may be exciting for him to be with his supporters, people are turning on the television. and they're saying, my god, this pandemic is surging all across this country. we've lost over 225,000 people,

already. hospitals are being filled to capacity. and the president of the united states is doing exactly the opposite of what doctors and scientists are telling us we have to do. they say we've got to wear a mask. many of his supporters are not wearing a mask. they say we have to social distance. these people are packed together. so i think, while it is exhilarating, i am sure, for the president and his supporters to do these rallies. i'm not sure, for the folks back home who are watching them, are saying is this really, this anti-science leadership, the kind of leadership that we want to continue in the white house? i think, in many respects, these rallies may be backfiring. you know, i know it's easy for trump to make fun of biden's events. i, myself, was in michigan and pennsylvania, and we talk to automobiles. you know what? it's not all that exhilarating to be talking to cars. you can't see their expressions. but -- >> i know.

i hear -- you hear those car rallies and people are honking. the first time i heard it, i was like, god, why is everyone honking? and then, i realize, oh, that's how you do it at a rally. >> frankly, it's a very weird -- i've done a million rallies -- it's a very weird experience. >> do you pause for the honks? or do you -- do you just motor right through them? >> it's a new experience. we're working our way through that, i will tell you. but, you know, i -- i think, on the other hand, people understand that we all have a responsibility, as elected officials, as ordinary people, to do the best that we cannot to spread this terrible virus. and you not a president who is doing exactly the opposite, in my view, of what he should be doing. and you can make fun of biden. you can make fun of me. >> congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez. would you be open to a cabinet position? i mean, obviously, labor

secretary's been talked about. >> well, i don't want to speculate, too much. again, the next five days, what i want to do is see that biden becomes the president. but this is what i do believe, anderson. the political world in america has changed, and the democratic party has changed. and that is, we now have a very potent and growing, progressive movement in this country of many, many, many millions of people. and the progressive movement, no matter who the names may be, the progressive movement deserves a seat at the table of the biden administration. we deserve cabinet appointments. we deserve to have strong progressives filling important posts. so, whether it's me or anybody else, alexandria is absolutely right. the progressive movement, now, has earned its stripes. it deserves representation in a biden administration. >> senator bernie sanders, i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. we're now on the medical side and a slew of alarming

warnings, including the task force's warning they continue to see, quote, unrelenting, broad community spread in the midwest, upper midwest, and west. our chief medical correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta, joins us now. so, sanjay, you hear that warning from the task force. how dire is the situation? >> well, you know, i mean, it's -- it's getting very concerning. i mean, we can show you the trend lines here that we have been following closely. and there's -- there's a couple things, beyond the obvious, that we're sort of really focused on. we'll see -- you will see the numbers here, when they put this up, of the midwest compared to the european union. and you'll see, you know, there's a lot of similarities here. >> we're not putting it up, apparently. >> okay. well, if they put it up, what you would see if -- if you could see this, is that the lines are actually both going up. but the -- but the pace, at which the number of new cases are -- are happening is, also, increasing. so they're not just going up. but the pace at which that is happening is going up. wisconsin, right now, anderson, if you look at per-capita cases

there, it's actually now exceeded what new york was back in april. april 10th was actually the highest per-capita case count in new york. and now, wisconsin has exceeded that. and that is sort of, you know, becoming sort of par for the course for many of these midwestern states. so, it's -- it's -- it's really concerning. i mean, it's no secret. again, if we had the map, we would show it. but the northern part of the country is going to look a lot worse right now. the weather is cooler up there. the south may be a little insulated from that, aside from texas and new mexico. but the whole country, really, as you know, anderson, the numbers are going up. and as the weather gets colder, it's just going to make it harder and harder to contain. >> there were several, very serious warnings from key health officials today. i want to play part of something that dr. anthony fauci said. >> if we get a vaccination campaign and by the second or third quarter of 2021, we have vaccinated a substantial proportion of the people, i think it will be, easily, by the end of 2021, and perhaps even

into the next year, before we start having some semblances of normality. >> do you think that's accurate? i mean, normal life, not until the end of next year or into 2022? >> well, i mean, you know, part of that, i think, anderson, really depends on how you -- how you define normalcy. i mean, if it's like totally back to normal, you know, everything was the way that it was before, then yes. but, you know, the thing is, anderson, if you think about the vaccine, think about the masks, think about what is the fundamental objective of all these things? it's to make it harder for the virus to find a home. you know, the virus likes to jump from person to person and we have been pretty, pretty willing hosts, over the past several months here in this country. if we could make it less hospitable for the virus, the numbers would start to go down and we will have a sense of normalcy. it might mean that we are wearing masks longer but we're -- it's a little strand of

genetic material. if the vaccine is 70-80% effective and, you know, that percentage of people actually take it, we could start to see senses of normalcy that dr. fauci is talking about, perhaps even earlier. but there hasn't been a lot of indication that people would be willing to do things that make it harder for the virus to jump around. >> public admiral said, today, that the -- the -- the vaccine will end the pandemic. that, that's the end of the pandemic. that's not the case. it's not the end of the pandemic. i mean, it's something that can help -- help end it but it's not like everybody gets the vaccine and it's, suddenly, gone. it's still out there. >> the virus is still out there and the vaccine won't flip a switch. and i think it's really important for people to know that because we have become this society that is, you know, the quick-fix society. we're not going to even bother

doing the small stuff because we're just going to wait for the big thing, the vaccine. but the vaccine's not going to flip that switch. first of all, it may be two shots. this is going to be one of the largest distribution projects, in human history. you are going to need 70% of the world, ultimately, vaccinated. and these are challenging vaccines to distribute. and it might be something that's yearly because we don't know how long the immunity would last from the vaccine. so it's -- and the -- the virus is going to be around for a while. you know, the h1n1 that you and i covered back in 2009, that was a descendent of the flu virus. >> i didn't realize that. sanjay, thanks very much. appreciate it. correction earlier. i said something wrong. i said that hogan gidley was a paid spokesman for the white house. in fact, he is now a spokesman for the trump campaign. he heft t left the position in july. i did not know that he got the promotion, i guess? coming up next. i apologize for the mistake. coming up, john king is back breaking down that new cnn polling. and later, bob woodward.

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presidential election. so, there's that. and there's new cnn polling we mentioned at the top of the program, though no one should read too much into any, individual poll, at any point in time. there is still plenty to learn from this one. john king is back to tell us more. so what are some of the key findings? >> there is plenty to learn, anderson. i'm normally a guy telling you at this point in the race, don't pay attention to national polls. well, guess what? you can pay attention to this one. this is the map we will fill in. let's just bring up choice for president. i have a timeline here. the latest poll is right here. joe biden has a 12-point national lead right now. 12-point national lead. hillary clinton's was four, at this point. she won the national vote by two. joe biden is up 12, right now, with five days to go. this is a big deal, in part because of the stability of the race. he was up 13 in april. he's up 12 now. this has been a stable race. right now, you see no evidence of trump momentum. doesn't mean it won't happen. doesn't mean we won't find it but we don't see it, at the

moment. and that is a big deal. let me get that out of the way and show you a bit more. when you dig deeper into the bones of this thing, that's when it gets interesting. trump has been throwing the kitchen sink at joe biden. hunter biden. can't trust him. he is in the basement. favorable or unfavorable? 41% of americans view the incumbent president favorably. 55% view biden favorably, he is above water, if you will. 42% unfavorable. so on questions of likability, character, honesty, joe biden is thumping the president of the united states. that matters when you pick a president. if you are losing the character debate, one way to win is the policy debate, right? well, in our new poll, donald trump wins on the economy. the only big issue he wins on and he wins just barely. on coronavirus, on crime, on health care, on supreme court picks, voters prefer, and on many of these issues by a wide

margin, joe biden over donald trump. the reason -- this was the map four years ago -- the reason we have the map like this right now, leaning overwhelmingly biden's way. go through the issues, go through the personal characteristics. look at the horse race. at this moment, people just aren't buying what the president's selling. >> john, stick around. i want to bring in cnn chief political correspondent, dana bash. and cnn's abby phillip. >> people still need to go out and vote for all the candidates they want to vote for. the -- it's wider than any candidate's lead, in more than two decades. how confident are democrats feeling? and when does confidence turn into overconfidence? >> okay. well, if you've met any democrats, you probably know the answer is they're not. they're nervous because that's how they are, by -- by nature. that's their dna, and they will admit that to you. but one of the things that i find most interesting in cnn's new poll is the question of favorability. meaning, how much do people actually like these candidates?

and the question on that for joe biden, compared to hillary clinton. in 2016, anderson, about 20% of people who were polled said they didn't really like either hillary clinton or donald trump. and by election day, many of those broke for donald trump. and that's basically how he won. now, there's only 4%, who in this poll, say they don't like either joe biden or donald trump. and separately, joe biden's favorability rating is so much higher. people like joe biden, in general and definitely compared to donald trump. so, that's a big indicator and a factor that this is a very different election and candidates comparison, than four years ago. >> abby, more than a third of registered voters, more than 75 million americans, have already cast their vote. it obviously underscores enthusiasm about the race or fear about the race or whatever, but interest in the race. beyond that, though, what can we take away, do you think, from the early turnout?

>> well, first of all, i do think that we should recognize that, for this election cycle, for the first time, in probably the history of this country, more americans have had more, different ways to vote than ever before. and i think what we are seeing with those numbers is that they're taking advantage of it. when you give people an opportunity to cast a ballot, in a convenient way, they do it. the other thing that we see is that younger people, probably for -- for two reasons. one, because of interest in this race. and, two, because, again, they can. they have more ways of doing it now, than ever before. and they are participating in this process. you're, also, seeing extraordinary turnout in places like texas. in places like two of the most-populous counties in arizona. a major swing state. these are -- we're going to look back on these days, and we're going to see kind of the building blocks of massive turnout in this cycle. and potentially, turnout that could affect the actual outcome of this race. we don't know, yet.

but one thing we do know is that, based on our polling that's out today, biden's voters are much more likely to cast their ballots early, than trump's voters. they are, also, more likely to cast their ballot by mail. and i think we, also, know that when -- that when turnout is high, republicans generally believe that high turnout benefits democrats and vice versa. so, take that for what you will. but i do think that -- that turnout is really an important part of this story, and it could make a big difference in some unexpected places, georgia, texas, arizona, come election day. >> john, fast forward to next tuesday night. what state is going to be first on your list for potential signs of where things are headed? >> one important note, first. we're not quite sure because it's going to be such an election unlike any other in the sense that some states will report those mail-in ballots early because they've been able to count them. so, we may see joe biden take a lead in places we know he's not going to win because the mail-in ballots are disproportionately democrat. other places might not count

those ballots until the morning after or very late at night. so donald trump may jump out to lead in places where, in the end, it's not going to be that way. but there are some rules. i remember, in 2016, i'm going to go to kentucky. everybody's saying why would you go to kentucky? it's going to be red. it likely will be red in 2020. but remember, in 2016, the polls closed early here. we started to see in these rural counties, along the border, why is that a big deal? because it was so much better than mitt romney did four years before that. so we're going to get to study are these white, rural voters coming out for donald trump, a, in high numbers? and, b, is he winning the percentages that he did? that was our first clue. people were coming out of the woodwork. in these counties where democrats do okay, they were getting swamped. you saw it in southern ohio. places down here. you go back, just 50% for mitt

romney. even if you know kentucky's going to go red, ohio is likely to go red. although, ohio's a tossup this year. because that gave us clues about what was going to happen in pennsylvania. these are the same people. they live down here. so when the polls close in election day turnout, is there evidence donald trump is overperforming, equal, or is he under performing? 2016. that would be our first sign of trouble. >> and, john, do you have a sense of -- i mean, i'm sure you get this question from like every uber driver and on the street -- but how long it's going to be before there is an answer? >> no, we don't. we don't because we need to be patient, and we need to help everybody understand these election officials are good people. they are doing the best they can. but some counties in pennsylvania, some places in michigan, say it could possibly be thursday or friday. i will say this. i'm going to pull back out to the map. we do know. florida. i'm going to go to 2016 so i don't confuse people here. florida has a pretty good history counting votes and they say they're prepared. it is possible, late on election night, midnight, somewhere in that ballpark, that we know

florida. if joe biden wins florida, if joe biden wins either/or both of those, we may not get to 270 but we will have a good sense. if donald trump is winning florida on election night, we might be at this for a couple nights. >> a more than two-year-old mystery solved. the name of anonymous, the unnamed senior administration official who wrote an op-ed in "the new york times" about being part of the resistance and how senior officials were, quote, working diligently from within, unquote, to thwart president trump's worst inclinations. he is myles taylor, former chief of staff in department of homeland security. someone who's been on this program and actually denied being anonymous. he now supports joe biden. today, at a rally in arizona, president trump responded calling taylor a, quote, sleaze bag. you can see taylor's response to all this when he appears next hour on "cuomo prime time." just ahead tonight. how trump and his allies sought

to pass the buck. jared kushner's tape-recorded admission to reporter, bob woodward, who joins us next. also, the latest on hurricane zeta which has now hit new orleans, leaving hundreds of thousands without power, when we continue. the most dangerous thing about rheumatoid arthritis is often unseen.

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and end police brutality, we must keep working to reform our racist criminal justice system that's shameful to us all. i want to spend a significant amount of time now on those tapes of jared kushner we mentioned at the top of the program. tapes that have never been released, until now. these are comments of the president's son-in-law, who is also senior adviser to the president, made to bob woodward as part of his research for his newly released book "rage." they occurred in april and may, as deaths from covid-19 reached their all-time peak. that they've seen the coronavirus, less as a serious public-health issue, and more a political problem that they could message away. you'll hear that on the tape. also, others offering more proof that the white house was deliberately holding back information of just how bad the pandemic could become because their focus was on market reaction ahead of the election.

joining me now is bob woodward, whose best-seller "rage" was released last month. bob, thanks for joining us again. i want to play something that jared kushner said to you on april 18th. at this point in the pandemic, more than 38,000 americans had already died. there were more than 732,000 cases. let's listen to this. >> so we're testing now. what he's been saying is don't fall into the the same trap that we fell into the first time. the federal government should not own the testing and the federal government should not own kind of the rules, it's got to be up to the governors because that's the way the federalist system works. to basically say, no, no, no, i own the opening because, again, the opening is going to be popular. people want this country open. but if it opens in the wrong way, the question will be did the governors follow the guidelines we set out, or not? >> it's a really remarkable

thing. first of all, the idea that the -- the -- they fell into a trap, the first time, on testing is remarkable. the idea that it's a trap for the federal government to actually be responsible, in helping get tests to -- to labs and get americans tested. it is so cynical, the way they're looking at it, clearly, through a lens of politics, from the get-go. >> well, it's -- it's not just cynical. it's manipulative, to the tenth degree. i mean, here, what kushner is saying, look. let's give the hard stuff, the testing, to the governors. and let's require them to deal with these arrangements which we've made for opening. and then, when there's opening, trump will embrace that, and that will be his. and what struck me is it's said,

without any hesitation. it's -- it's said like, okay, this is where we're going. we're going to do it. governors? oh, well, they're here to be used and manipulated by the president. and it's -- if -- if it's possible to be shocked, i think that at least takes you into that arena. >> it's also that, you know, he's talking about the -- the -- don't, you know, fall into the trap of testing again. and that, he talks about the federalist system and basically says, well, you know, under the federalist system, it's really the governors' responsibility to do testing. but then, he immediately goes to saying, but as for opening up, which is opening up, state by state, in localities, some cases, local areas within a state. the president's going to grab that away from the governors. damn the federalist system because that's where the credit's going to be. he's going to brand himself as the -- the opening guy.

>> yes. and -- and see, they release these guidelines, which essentially were going to require that the states have to show improvement, over two weeks. and what happened right before this conversation with kushner is the president got impatient. and, you may recall, he tweeted out, all in caps, liberate minnesota. liberate michigan. liberate virginia. and the whole design was, not only to take the opening and liberation unto himself but, it was to jump the gun and all these stodgy people who were worried about the virus and the rules, which the doctors had written. and actually, felt quite happy about. oh, no, they're -- everyone else in this. and i guess, this is kind of

the -- the core summary, here, anderson. that, everyone, doctors, oh, they're debris. they're out, they're in the way of the president. if you look at the other areas, this is a pattern. the generals. they don't know what they're doing. they're pussies. secretary of state tillerson. oh, he's dumb as a rock. oh, the intelligence people don't know what they're talking about. they're in trump's way, to execute what is, often, spur-of-the-moment impulse, something not thought through, something where he's not talked to other people. >> we also have part of the conversation you had with jared kushner on may 8th. i want to play that. >> i think that the difference between a really good outcome and a really bad outcome, you know, rests on two things.

number one is -- is confident execution by us on the medical front and on the economic front, which i think we have the right teams in place to do. and then, number two is, is the psychology to the market, right? so, if you -- if you -- if you basically say this is coming back in the fall, don't gear up. then, people won't rehire. people will stay unemployed. and if you are planning for the worst-case scenario, that will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. one of the things that the president's great at is he is a cheerleader. he's trying to make people feel good about the outcome. >> you know, kushner did mention executing on medical and economic fronts which, you know, is, i guess, nice of him to acknowledge that that's very important. but he didn't, then, move onto really the public-relations front and making people feel good about the outcome, so that companies will, you know, will hire. will plan for a reopening. and talks, again, about the president being a cheerleader, which is something the president

says. i've never understood that. i mean, cheerleaders are great. but don't you kind of want a coach or, like, a quarterback? or somebody who even knows how to run with the ball? i mean, do you really want -- is the cheerleader the most important spot? >> but it's really not cheerleading. that's what kushner's labeling it. but what he's saying there is, oh, let's not give people bad news because, then, maybe, they won't reopen. so it's deception. it's not cheerleading. >> totally. >> and as we know, when we have cheerleaders, sometimes, they -- they can spur people to make proper moves. and then, other times, it -- it's just -- it's silly. and this isn't even that. this is outright deception. and the failure. if you go back and put all of the ten months together, since

trump, on january 28th, was told the full ramifications of what was coming. and then, to not take action, to not disclose to people and tell the truth. and i, honestly, think this gets to a point where there's a moral dimension to it. that the responsibility is just not -- >> and he's still doing -- he's still doing it. i mean, he's still out there holding these, you know, superspreader-potential events. and saying that there is light at the end of the tunnel. we're rounding a turn. you know, the white house is saying, you know, they've -- they've beaten the pandemic. it -- it's -- it's -- i mean, it's -- it's giving people a false reality. it's just lies and they're very dangerous lies because he's, also, not encouraging mask wearing. he's not encouraging social distancing. i want to play something else that kushner told you on -- on may 8th for our viewers. >> look. i really do believe that he's

passed the competency test on the execution. i think that, you know, kayleigh actually said a great thing to him in the oval office. said, look, do you think we're better off? and she said, you know, in some ways, it's better this way because, before, people took for granted how great you were with the economy. >> i mean, wow. so at that point more than 77,000 americans had lost -- had died, and kushner tells you they had a conversation in the oval office, and kellyanne conway's conclusion was it's better this way because now people -- >> no. it's kayleigh -- >> kayleigh mcenany. >> yeah. he's referring to -- yes, his press secretary. >> yeah, kayleigh mcenany said it's better this way because people don't take you for granted on the economy anymore. i mean that's stunning. >> that is a shakespearean tragedy unto itself. the idea that you would say,

let's embrace disaster, and then you can come back from that and people will appreciate you in some way they would not if we had not had this disaster. the first time i heard that, i thought, is that possible? is the -- would the president ask that kind of question, how do i maneuver my way politically through this? and the answer is yes and that the press secretary would give this kind of answer. so where this all comes together, we are on a collision course with history right now. and as you know, you've had the doctors on, what the future for the next weeks and months is going to be even more of a

calami calamity, and we have a leader, whether he's re-elected or not, who's going to be in office until january according to the constitution. and we've got months where there's no plan. there's no strategic vision of, gee, how do we get out of this? i mean here you have the white house chief of staff saying over the weekend, we're not going to control the pandemic. >> yeah. >> it's as if we're in the middle of world war ii and franklin roosevelt says, or his advisers say, well, gee, we're not going to try to control the nazis. >> yeah. and then later on, of course, he tried to walk it back and said, well, we're going to try to contain it. but they're not trying to contain it. c containing it is not just vaccines, therapeutics. it's social distancing, mask wearing, the president modeling

that behavior. bob woodward, i appreciate your time as always. these clips are just fascinating. >> thank you. >> thanks for being with us. you heard from john king earlier in the program. there's a lot of focus right now centered on michigan. not only is it a critical state for both president trump and joe biden, there's still ongoing concern about the alleged plot to kidnap the state's governor, gretchen whitmer. today an emergency appeal was filed that struck down the open carry of firearms at polling places on election day. governor whitmer joins me now. thanks for being with us. i want to ask you about some of what we just heard from these tapes of jared kushner talking to bob woodward at really the height of the pandemic back in march and april. he said, quote, with testing now, what he's been saying to us is don't fall into the same trap that we fell into the first time. the states have to own the testing. the federal government should not own the testing. essentially kushner and the president, the white house decided push testing onto the states because it's messy. you know, it can go wrong.

it's a trap for the trump administration. but take away from the governors reopening so that the president gets credit. >> well, running the united states in the middle of a global pandemic isn't for everyone, and that's precisely why we need a change in the white house. that's why i'm so enthusiastic about joe biden and kamala harris. the fact of the matter is i got right in the middle of all of this when i observed early on that there was no national strategy. states were in the early days being pitted against one another just to obtain those n95 masks that all of our frontline workers need. here we are eight months later, and there is still no national strategy. covid numbers are increasing. the pain that we are feeling economically is worse than it could have been or should have been had the white house ever had a national strategy, had they ever leveled with the american people, had they ever challenged us to rally to

this -- to beat this virus. the virus is the enemy. all they've spent their energy on is turning the american people on one another, and we deserve and desperately need better. >> the fact that they are still holding these super-spreader -- potential super-spreader rallies, you know, and the president's whole team has gotten infected. the vice president's team has gotten infected. and now they -- but nevertheless, that hasn't stopped them either. they're just continuing to hold these rallies in your state, in other states, in states that are seeing, you know, big rises in cases and deaths. >> you know, you would think that an administration that has succumbed to the very virus that is killing people across our nation and depriving us of jobs and economic opportunity would take this more seriously and have a little bit of empathy. i thought perhaps with the passing of herman cain, maybe they would understand the incredible heartache that is

playing out across this country. >> they blew through that very quickly. they hardly reacted to that. >> they sure did. i've lost a number of people to covid-19. it's a devastating, cruel illness that is still a very real threat all across the country. our numbers are rising, and their events are contributing to spread. we have done contact tracing. we've seen that, you know, bear out. people show up and they're packed in, and they don't wear masks and they're screaming and shouting. that's how covid-19 spreads. >> yeah. >> they're contributing to the crisis that's ravaging this country. >> we only have about two minutes left but i want to ask you two things. i'll just throw them out at you. one is yesterday the president at a rally in your state last night said about the alleged plot to kidnap you, quote, maybe it was a problem. maybe it wasn't. i don't know if you want to respond to that. also are you concerned about election day, you know, the court had said people can bring weapons, i guess, around polling

stations. i think you're going to be appealing that. but are you concerned? >> so we are working incredibly hard to make sure that we get every vote counted, and we may not have a count on election night. and i want to warn everyone in the media that that's a very real pocket because we are seeing an contradict turnout. but we are going to keep people safe, and we're going to ensure that every vote gets counted and michigan reports an accurate count. the first part of your question, i mean for the trump administration, for the president himself and his surrogates to come into this state and to incite and encourage anyone who is a domestic terrorist or has ideas of hurting their fellow americans is cruel, and it is unusual, and it is not normal. words matter, and we all deserve better as a nation. >> governor whitmer, i appreciate your time. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> now to breaking news not tied to politics. herk zeta has made landfall in louisiana as a strong cap 2

storm. amara walker joins us from new orleans with the latest. it looks calm now. what's it been like today? >> reporter: yeah, at the height of the storm it was pretty bad. right now it's pretty calm as you say. we've been experiencing occasionally tropical storm-force wind gusts but at the worst of zeta, anderson, the wind gusts were clocking in at 110 miles per hour, strong enough to snap trees like this here behind me in half. we've seen reports across southeast louisiana where there have been a lot of large trees that have come down, including power lines and debris strewn all over streets and the neighborhood. this was expected to be a wind-driven event, and that's exactly what it was, and hence we've seen widespread power outages. over 400,000 people, we're being told, are without power in the state of louisiana and mississippi right now. anderson. >> yeah, and you still have a lot of people in new orleans who are from other parts of

louisiana, who got -- who had to leave their homes and they're staying in hotels because of other storms. >> reporter: yeah. i was actually struck by just walking around here this afternoon, anderson. every other person that we approached told me, yeah, i'm an evacuee from lake charles or from southwest louisiana. a lot of them telling me that they were hit very hard by hurricane laura and delta. these are two hurricanes that hit 13 miles and six weeks apart, and a lot of these evacuees, about 3,500 of them, have been scattered into hotels around new orleans, and they too were riding out the storm here. it goes without saying that, you know, they're very storm-weary. they say they're sick of what they've seen in this unprecedented season. hurricane zeta has become the fifth named storm to hit louisiana. that is a state record. >> just about 30 seconds left. what's the forecast for the rest of the night into tomorrow?

>> reporter: well, like i said, it was a very fast-moving storm, so the winds from hurricane zeta, we're told, should move out of here by midnight tonight. and tomorrow the forecast looks sunny and nice. >> appreciate it. thanks very much. before we go, there now have been 76,271 new covid cases reported just today. 972 deaths reported just today. the news continues. want to hand it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." chris? all right. thank you very much, everybody. i am chris cuomo, and welcome to "prime time." tonight we have anonymous. his name is miles taylor, and you've seen him on this program before. but you're going to see him in a whole new light tonight. this is miles' first tv interview since revealing he was the person behind the pen more than two years ago when he turned the white house upside down with that now infamous trump resistance op-ed and