tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN October 29, 2020 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
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good evening. the country has crossed yet another terrible threshold. according to the team at johns hopkins university, today is now the worst single day for covid cases in the country. the worst, single day of the entire pandemic. 83,757 new cases, so far. and that number will not be final, for hours, yet. 940 lives lost, so far, and it's just 8:00. with that as the horrible scene setter, we win go one state, two candidates, and two very different ways of campaigning in a pandemic. one, about as safe as you can make it, given the circumstances. the other, about as reckless as you can be.
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packing maskless people close together in a state with soaring numbers of people who are already infected. and at one of those stops in tampa, the president of the united states said something that we want to let you hear, for yourselves, because it is so shameless and cynical. and is such a lie that, even for this president, it's remarkable. this is the president in a rally with large crowds. most of whom, are, as always, not wearing masks. the people behind him, as you will see, have been given masks because they're going to be on tv and the campaign want you to think he's being responsible but he's not. here is the president's new claim. >> we know the disease. we social distance. we do all of the things that you have to do. if you get close, wear a mask. always, controversial. it's not controversial, to me. you get close, you wear a mask. social distance. social distance. >> wow. i mean, this guy has no shame.
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he is telling a crowd, of largely unmasked people, who, as you see, are standing shoulder to shoulder. shoulder, often, rubbing against shoulder. yet, we social distance, he says. we do all the things that you have to do. and folks are nodding their heads and clapping, cheering. spreading droplets into the air and onto the people around them. packed in tight. you are get close, the president says, you wear a mask. to a crowd of people who are close and are not wearing masks. and he's saying it, as if he's been saying this for months. social distance. social distance, he says. to, again, a crowd not social distanced. i got to say. it is painful to watch people who, also, cheered when he mocked masks and social distancing. they cheered when he mocked those very same things. n now, he's, suddenly, a convert. it's like he pulls the rug out
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from under them, and they go along with it. people in that crowd are going to contract covid. that is the sad reality, and some may die. cnn's dr. sanjay gupta and the cnn medical team investigated what happened. the rate of cases rose a month later and after more than half the rallies, they rose faster for the overall state in which they were held. in the meantime, think about all the times that the president has mocked joe biden for his social-distancing circles and drive-in events or reporters for wearing a mask, as he did just last week in the oval office. >> this is jeff mason. he's got a mask on. it's the largest mask i think i've ever seen so i don't know if you can hear him. >> so, no, the president hasn't always been a fan of mask wearing or social distancing, and he isn't a fan of it now. here is the president at a recent abc news town hall.
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>> there are a lot of people that think the masks are not good. >> who are those people? >> i'll tell you who those people are. waiters. they come over and serve you and they have a mask. and i saw it the other day where they were serving me, and they're playing with the mask. i'm not blaming that. i'm just saying what happens. they're playing with the mask. and so, the mask is over. and they're touching it and then they're touching the plate. that can't be good. >> now, keeping him honest. researchers at university of washington released a study projecting that 100,000 lives could be saved, american lives, could be saved, over just the next few months, if everyone did what the president said is maybe not such a good thing. apparently, because he's seen waiters touch their faces. and now, he is saying he's always been for it, having spent months making it controversial. even when he announced the cdc guidelines on masks, he started to critique them, as he announced them. saying he wouldn't do it. it's like an arsonist, who is back at the scene giving firefighting tips.
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or sending his chief of staff on to cbs "this morning." i mean, this guy. first, mark meadows. first, he lies about the administration's stance on all the above. then, he pivots to his own restaurant experience, which we are dying to hear which, apparently, isn't shared by many these days about how icky they can be. >> the reason i want to jump in here. i just want to clarify. i'm glad to hear you saying you're using purell. i believe on the face the nation said it's a little confusing for people. you know, the president, himself, your office, the vice president's office. they are not following their own guidelines. can you see how that's a problem for people? >> well -- well, i -- i can tell you that i -- i'm following the guidelines and a number of us are following the guidelines. >> a number of us. >> if you look at it, obviously -- obviously, a number of us continue to -- to look at
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this particular environment. and -- and it's an unusual environment that we have. and so, as we -- as we try to make sure that we come into contact with other people. making sure that we socially distance as much as possible. wearing those masks, when we can't. we strongly encourage that. i, also, for all of you that are watching this morning is, if you can carry a little container of purell. i mean, just think about it in a restaurant environment. you know, you a're -- you're drinking from a drinking glass. well, that drinking glass, probably, has been filled by a waiter or waitress that has touched every other glass. so i'm hypervigilant as we look at that. we don't think about the ways that we can potentially become infected. >> can you believe this guy? i mean, what is he talking about? i mean, that went on for, what, like 30, 40 seconds. he's saying that, you know, he's
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seen waiters in -- in -- you know -- i -- i'm really just stunned that the chief of staff for the president of the united states is encouraging mask wearing, and saying, oh, yeah, no, well, i -- when asked about the administration. the fact that the administration has become infected with covid because they haven't been following guidelines. and the vice president, the people around the vice president, are now currently infected. the chief of staff blows that off, and just says, well, i do it. in fact, here's a little tip. bring some purell with you. oh, thanks, dr. fauci. wow. i mean, wow. purell. who thought of that? i mean, this is incredible. that he is acting as if the fact that he, personally, does this, somehow, makes up for the fact that the man he represents and the man he works for is not doing this. and that, right as he's speaking, that very day, they're going to have a bunch of rallies that are potentially
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superspreader events with thousands of people, shoulder to shoulder, cheering, spewing droplets on each other. and they're not telling those people to social distance. other than the president's one, little line, today? i mean, i'm sorry. that -- he's somebody who's supposed to be responsible and that's his response. man. we are in trouble. we are in trouble. this -- sure. you can catch covid from contaminated surfaces. but the primary mode of transportation is airborne. even the president knows this. >> and so, that's a very tricky one. that's a very delicate one. it's, also, more deadly than your, you know, your -- even your strenuous flus. >> that was the 7th of february, back when he was saying that, privately, to bob woodward. but, publicly, saying it would
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all just disappear with his buddies, diamond and silk. where have they been recently, though? the memory is so vivid, it's almost as if he were saying it just this afternoon. >> our vaccine will eradicate the virus. and by the way, we have it. but whether we have it or not, it's rounding the turn. it's rounding the turn. >> he's almost bored of that phrase, by now. it's rounding the turn. it's rounding the turn. it's not. it's not. the president's simply lying there. as we reported at the top, this has been the worst single day for new cases in the entire pandemic. more than 83,000 new cases, and counting. and at least 940 people dead, as of 8:00 p.m., nine minutes ago. maybe, more have died just in the last nine minutes. a bit later in the program, we are going to talk about new cnn reporting about the presidential influential but unqualified radiologist, member of the task force. in fact, he seems to be the only
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remaining member in good standing with the president. that guy, scott atlas. he's been pushing states to not test so many people and one state reportedly listened. and guess where that is? yep, florida. where joe biden held a socially-distanced event today, where the president held a potentially superspreader event. and cases topping 4,000 today. as we said, we will be talking to an infectious disease specialist. phil mattingly. so, phil, where do things stand in florida as the path to 270 for the president? >> yeah, look, i'm not going to be breaking any news, anderson, when i say it's going to be close. i think everybody agrees on that, in both parties. and everybody also agrees the state of florida, this is the map back in 2016, president trump winning by about 100,000 votes. here's where things stand, at this moment. the poll of polls show joe biden with about a three-point lead. that's a little sizeable but it
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gives democrats some hope. the reality, anderson, when you look at this map, it's not going to be much different in terms of colors, tuesday night. democratic strongholds will remain. same with republicans up top. the question is who can run up votes where they need it, and who can hope to keep margins down in other places that are strong suits? i think, right now, where you see the president and joe biden in the i-4 corridor, fighting for the suburbs, fighting for retirees, understanding dynamics of this race right now. while they will head multiple places over the course of the next couple days, everybody knows florida matters, perhaps more than anything. >> what about joe biden? he told voters today in broward county florida's the key. >> he can win without florida but it would be extremely, extremely difficult. the gold states are tossups. as it stands, joe biden's already above 270 electoral votes in the current race ratings. now, say you gave joe biden the state of florida.
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that puts him at 319. and let's walk through what president trump could win, and still not reach 270. he could win georgia. he could win north carolina. he could win ohio. he could win iowa. he could win the second district in maine, up here, for that one electoral vote. and then, he could start digging into democratic territory. he could win nevada. he could go ahead and win arizona, too. in fact, he could win the state of pennsylvania. and look at this. joe biden is still above 270 electoral votes. are there pathways, or is there a pathway that president trump can win 270 electoral votes without florida? yes. is it likely? i think both campaigns would acknowledge, if they are being candid, the answer's no. >> there is a sense who is up in florida, just in terms of polls? and could florida send some signals relatively early in the night? >> i think everybody is trying to get a read on the early vote, right? the early vote is surging around the country and florida's no different, at all. take a look at this. 7.3 million votes have come in.
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4.4 million in -- in mail-in ballots, alone. that is almost -- almost -- about 75% to the entire 2016 total. here's the news i think the biden and trump campaign are willing to acknowledge about what it might mean for election night. unlike a lot of the midwestern states, florida knows how to handle vote by mail. they dealt with more than 3 million back in 2016. and florida is allowed to process ballots before election day. so when you talk to the biden campaign. when you talk to folks aligned with the biden campaign. one of the reasons they also point to florida, beyond the general electoral map is, if florida goes to biden, they should know early. and if they know early, that will be a good sign for them for the remainder of the night. again, it is very unlikely we will know the answers to where the midwestern states stand on election night. florida could give an actual idea of where the overall process stands before we even have to worry about those midwestern states. anderson. >> joining us now, massachusetts
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senator warren. senator warren, thanks for being with us. with less than five days to go, how are you feeling about the biden/harris campaign right now? and frankly, the chances of democrats taking the senate? >> look, i feel good. but you get out there and you fight for everything. what seems to me to be the issue everybody has really gotten focused in on is health care. and part of it is around this pandemic. 225,000 people who have died eight months into a pandemic. and donald trump still doesn't have a plan. doesn't even have a clue in how he's going to deal with this pandemic. and if you can't deal with it, you can't reopen the economy. you can't get this country back on track. but it's, also, the second part. and, that is, health care. access to health care. the republicans have tried repealing the affordable care act. they've missed that by a single vote. and now, donald trump will be in the united states supreme court, one week after the election, arguing to repeal the affordable care act, get rid of health care
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coverage, for tens of millions of americans, and end protections for people with pre-existing conditions, for tens of millions more. that contrast couldn't be sharper than with joe biden. joe biden has a plan for dealing with the pandemic, and he is going to expand coverage for everyone. there it is. >> it's also -- it's also -- i mean, i've never seen a race for president in which one side does not actually have a health care plan is promising a mysterious one that they're going to release, you know, i guess, when the audit stops on trump's taxes. you know, there's no plan, it seems. and this is presidential politics. i mean, has there been a race where the president of the united states, the person running, does not have a plan? >> actually, i think that donald trump does have a plan. he's made it clear. his plan is to take away health
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care from tens of millions of americans, in the middle of a pandemic. that is a plan. it's no plan you and i might like. it's not a plan that human beings would support. it's not a plan that people who care about their families and their friends would support. but, it is a plan, because they're actually out there executing on it. it's not that they're just kind of vaguely wandering around. they are actively working to repeal the affordable care act. forcing through a supreme court nominee. stealing a supreme court seat, so they can get that crucial, fifth vote, which they now have, to take away health care from an estimated 23 million americans and take away protection from people who have pre-existing conditions. that is their plan. less health care for americans in the middle of a pandemic. >> i know we're -- you know, everybody, in this country, whether they support the president or not, are used to his lies.
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some might not call them lies, but they are lies. today, him telling a crowd that he likes masks, that they social distance. that they've always, you know, said, you know, if you can't social distance, wear a mask. he is saying that to a crowd, who is standing shoulder to shoulder, not social distanced, and not wearing masks. even for him, to me, i -- i was just stunned by that, today. the level of -- i don't know if it's cynical or just shamelessness or i don't even have a question here. i just am stunned that this is the state that we are in, right now. >> you mean, he stands up there and says, in effect, who you going to believe? your lying eyes? or your president? and just puts it right out there. you know, one of the things that gives me the most assurance about having joe biden as president? he will listen to the scientists. he will listen to the epidemiologists. he's already talked about the
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importance of doubling down and doubling down, again, on testing and on contact tracing and on masks and on protective equipment. it's -- joe biden will be a reality-based president. someone who actually pays attention to what's going on, and helps make it better for all of us. >> i want to ask you about the breaking news tonight. a federal appeals court ruling regarding minnesota, saying ballots must be received by election day, there. cutting off a week-long window, where state officials had planned to receive ballots that had lingered in the mail. i'm wondering, are you concerned about what might happen in the courts, after the election? and about -- about the actual counting of votes? >> this is what interests me. it's what happened in minnesota but it's happening everywhere. the lawsuits are everywhere. one major, political party, the republicans, is doing their best to prevent american citizens from voting. and they've got 40 different
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ways to do that. whether it's when they get -- when the ballots get counted or when they have to be in by. or whether or not they can be mailed out, to begin with. or standing out there, trying to intimidate people who show up to vote. think about what that means. we have a major, political party, in this country, that believes that the only way that they've got a shot at hanging onto power is to keep american citizens from voting. so, it makes me say, at this moment, to everyone in this country, whether you are democrat, republican, independent, libertarian, vegetarian, if you have got a ballot, drop it off at the site, if you can. if you can do that, in your state. a ballot box or at your county clerk's office. you can go to iwillvote.com. punch in your state and it will tell you how to drop off your
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ballots. otherwise, go and vote in person. but vote. because this is democracy, and our democracy depends on people voting. >> yeah. >> so, that's what we got to do. >> senator elizabeth warren, i appreciate it. thanks very much. >> thank you. >> we're going to drill deeper on the medical realities in the state both candidates visited today. what florida really looks like as seen through the eyes of an expert there. we will also talk about the new reporting on infections and the president's rallies and ifeffor by the president's favorite doctor, radiologist, to limit testing in florida. later, back to politics in the early-voting numbers that are already breaking records. r one e time in our lives, got very quiet. we worried over loved ones, over money, over our planet, and over takeout. let's remember this time when so many struggled to feel secure, and build a future where everyone can. because when the world
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for a free hf handbook. the breaking news tonight. covid cases climbing to their highest daily total, yet. more than 83,000 and still rising. earlier, dr. earlier, they are being led by dr. scott atlas. again, he is not an infectious disease specialist, he doesn't treat covid patients or work on vaccines. he's good if you need an m rhode island. he h mri. he also believes fewer, nonsymptomatic people should be tested for covid. he shared that view with governor ron desantis. during a visit in last august, excuse me, late august, he and
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the governor urged public health officials to focus less on universal testing and more on opening the economy and schools. according to analysis of official state numbers, that push coincided with a dramatic drop in testing across the state. that as the background, we are joined by cnn chief medical correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta. and dr. eileen marty, infectious disease expert at florida university. dr. marty, today is the third-consecutive day florida reported new covid cases in a single day. what is going on in the state? >> we are having another rise in cases, absolutely. there's no doubt about it. there's more patients being -- coming to the hospital with covid symptoms, and other respiratory symptoms and almost always prove to be covid. our total case count is not as high but that's only because we are able to manage the patients
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much better today than we were several months ago. and so, we're able to get them out. but that doesn't mean that people aren't coming in. and that doesn't mean that they aren't suffering for long, long periods at home after this. so, there's no question, we're in another uptick. >> sanjay, president trump was in florida, earlier today, having a large rally. you have actually looked at the data on the idea that these are potential superspreader events. what did you find? >> well, it's very interesting because we wanted to look at this data very carefully. it's very hard when you have 80,000 people being diagnosed, every day, to -- to do effective contact tracing. i mean, it would be an entire sector of our society. so, what we did is we looked at the counties where these -- the last 17 rallies have been. and tried to see what happened in those counties in the weeks after those rallies, and compare it to surrounding counties within the state. to make sure it wasn't something that was just an artifact of the state. and 82% of the time, these rallies, anderson, the numbers went up and significantly,
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within a few weeks after these rallies. and they went -- they went up, out of proportion to the rest of the state. so there's clearly something going on. again, it's very hard to draw a cause and effect in a situation like this because the numbers are just so enormous. but, you know, getting a bunch of people together in a rally in the middle of a pandemic makes no sense, obviously. and if you look at these specific locations and say what is the chance i'm going to encounter someone with covid based on how much virus there is in my location? right now, in the country, you know, it's about a 95 to 99% chance, once you start to aggregate a few hundred people, that people are going to bring covid to those -- to those events. so, it's -- it's -- it's really significant what is happening in terms of spread, anderson. >> dr. marty, does that surprise you, at all? >> well, when you have someone advising the president or the governors with no -- with
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statements that are not backed by any science. that are immoral, that are misrepresenting the safety of our citizens and, particularly, of our children, it's not surprising to see that people are confused. and this is actually, absolutely, shameful that we have this going on in our nation, at this time, when there are so many experts. if -- can you imagine, i had this conversation with a dear friend of mine, one of the top neuro radiologists in the united states, wrote a letter condemning what dr. scott atlas has been saying because it is outrageous to consider that this -- these types of ideas that are being propagated. can you imagine, he said to me and i agree, if -- if the united states had taken that attitude towards polio, instead of waiting for a vaccine? if we hadn't been cautious. polio, if you think about it, had been around for 3 to 4,000
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years, without ever there being any kind of herd immunity. and then, we were finally able to have it, once we had good, safe vaccines. and we're finally getting to eradicate that disease using proper science and using proper vaccination. we can't let a wild virus go loose. >> sanjay, cnn's reporting dr. deborah birx from the task force has essentially seated her position to dr. atlas. she needs to sidestep the message coming from atlas and take her message to people, which she's been traveling to different states, talking to officials about how to prevent the spread. how worrying is that? i mean, it says a lot. for a moment, she was in the president's good graces. and just like fauci, apparently, it seems like, she no longer has his ear. >> yeah. it's -- it's really just
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surreal. i spent time at the white house with dr. birx, right when she got appointed. i was asked to go to a meeting there. the vice president was there. she had just flown from kenya the night before. jet lagged. but she is always somebody on the front lines of these things, and really wanted to -- to -- to take charge with the task force. but i remember, it was in august, i think, maybe even earlier, when, you know, i had a conversation with dr. fauci. and he basically said, look, he says, deborah, ambassador birx, is no longer in the oval office. it is scott atlas, who has the president's ear. and that's been going on for some time, as people know. but i think what is remarkable about ambassador birx is that she's still going on and trying to convey this message. i mean, i think it's really weighing on her. and again, i have spent time with her, i have talked to her about these issues. i think she -- she -- she really does care about this. the numbers, anderson, i think speak for themselves. today, as you mentioned earlier, the highest number of coronavirus cases in a single
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day. and clearly, the numbers are still going up. that's why she is out there. >> dr. marty, sanjay, appreciate it. still to come, the latest early-voting totals. also, analysis of the new federal court decision in minnesota on late-arriving ballots. ...made me think of all the things that i wanted to teach my kids. my doctor said i could start on keytruda... ...so i did. with each scan things just got better. in a clinical study, keytruda offered patients a longer life than chemotherapy. and it could be your first treatment. for non-small cell lung cancer that has spread, keytruda can be used... ...for adults who test positive for "pd-l1"... ...and whose tumors... ...do not havean abnormal "egfr" or "alk" gene. keytruda is not chemotherapy... it's the immunotherapy used to treat more patients with advanced lung cancer than any other. keytruda helps your immune system fight cancer but can also cause your immune system to attack healthy parts of your body. this can happen during or after treatment and may be severe and lead to death.
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so, rick, explain the court's ruling and your reaction. >> well, earlier on, the secretary of state entered into an agreement with plaintiffs who had sued over voting rules that said any ballots postmarked by election day but arrived november 10th, would be counted. what the court said today is it might be unconstitutional for the secretary of state to have made that extension and, therefore, all of the ballots that come in after election day are going to be set aside, they're going to be segregated. and there could be future litigation that might cause those ballots not to be counted. >> do you expect the ruling to appeal to the supreme court? and is there a any way to know how they might respond? >> they could appeal to the supreme court. there's really not a lot of time left. the court might not want to get involved. but one of the things the supreme court has consistently been saying is, to federal courts, don't change the rules just before the election. usually, that was more of a liberal court doing something
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that helped count more ballots. this is a cutback. and they don't care about this purecell princip principle and s go to the supreme court, it could be reversed. >> there have also been big disputes in north carolina. the supreme court's weighed in, to varying degrees. how would this resurface in possible postelection litigation? >> either for a presidential race or congressional race, someone might try to move that those ballots that are coming in late, that are now set aside, minnesota and pennsylvania, that those ballots should not be counted because the rule that allowed them to be counted took away the power of the state legislature. it's kind of a theory the supreme court is hinting about but has never really embraced. >> and you may not know this but
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if somebody has sent in a ballot, that they know is now too late, can they go and vote on election day? >> it depends on the state rules. i don't know the minnesota rules off the top of my head. what i can say is nobody anywhere in the united states right now should be mailing a ballot back. you should either be using a drop box, going to an official office, or voting in person on election day or early. >> rick hasen, appreciate it. thank you. record-breaking early vote totals that much more important, particularly to democrats. more than 81 million total votes cast, so far. 43 states have now exceeded early-vote totals from four years ago. states like texas, georgia, and florida, battleground states. phil mattingly is at the wall with what this could mean on election night. so more than a third of all registered voters have already cast their ballots. which states are seeing particularly high turnout of the battleground states? >> i think the stunning thing is
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28 states and the district of columbia have already surpassed half of total ballots cast back in 2016. and some of them are some of the most crucial states on the map. look at the states that light up here. state of north carolina. already, over 80% of their 2016 total just through early vote. same with the state of georgia. state of florida. 79%. again, of the total, early and election day, 79% is already in from 2016. you go over to arizona, there, it's 72%. texas, anderson. texas is already at 98% of the entire 2016 total. it underscores, look, we knew that there was going to be a surge in early vote. we knew vote by mail was going to be crucial, really for both parties but especially for democrats. but just the sheer amount that has come in over the course of the last several days and what could still come in over the next couple makes it very, very true this will be crucial to whoever wins. >> wait. texas, 98% of the number of total votes in 2016, that's --
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have already been voted -- have already voted? >> yeah, and look. if you want to caveat it, a little bit, it was down. total turnout was very down in texas. it was under 9 million. i think it was somewhere around 8.5 million. they already have somewhere around 8.2 million votes cast, already, between vote in person and vote by mail. the enthusiasm, if we can say nothing else about the numbers, is that the enthusiasm in the middle of a pandemic is certainly there. >> people say it helps the democrats all these people are voting early. do we know this? >> it's hard to say. not every state breaks it down by party. and you don't necessarily know just because someone's registered as a republican or registered as a democrat, that means that's how they're going to vote. but there are two states i think people are paying particular attention to. that starts with the state of north carolina. again, this is breakdown, by party. doesn't necessarily mean the
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democrat voted for joe biden. 39% of the vote came in with people registered as democrats to 31% republican. and then, no party or no-party affiliation, is going to be what the big battle is all about. where everybody is paying very close attention because they have done this before, they do vote by mail. that's the state of florida. democrats started with a big, early lead. right now, at 49%, republicans over the last couple days, as in-person voting has kicked into gear, really started to close the gap. pay attention to that as we. so anderson, you can't draw any conclusions by the data we are looking at right now other than it's big, it's surging, and democrats believe they've run up some good, early-vote numbers. it will depend on what republicans do not just in-person early voting but election day. republicans have acknowledged they have to win on election day, they think they can. >> perspective now from david axelrod, senior adviser of the
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obama white house. also, senior political commentator, gloria borger, cnn's chief political analyst. so, david, early-voting numbers, seeing more than -- million votes cast. i guess, the question is how confident are democrats about turnout? so, for days, we have been talking about how close it is in these states. and i know you said they're going to narrow there. it seems like they are narrowing. >> yeah. i think that phil made an important point. the -- the -- the unaffiliated voters are 20% of the vote in florida. how they break is pretty important. the other thing is how many people actually vote early, in all these places. 80 million, nationally. staggering number. and the more people vote early, the more pressure it puts on the president to have a great day on -- on tuesday, at the polling places. the cnn poll suggested that the people who are voting early were breaking, 2-1, in favor of biden.
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and that, people voting for trump were breaking heavily his way. but if more people vote early, that puts more pressure on trump -- trump to outperform. and i think people are going to be watching that, and -- and the thing that phil maentioned. where are these non-affiliated voters going? if they break one way or the other, that can make a big difference. >> gloria, i mean, do you think the -- is the focus on florida even more heightened this year? because it's so crucial to the president's path to 270 electoral votes? >> you know, as long as i have covered politics, the focus on florida is always pretty high. but, i'd have to say, this time, it's incredibly high because it's so important to donald trump. if donald trump does not win florida, he has a very narrow, narrow path to the presidency, if one at all. so, he absolutely needs florida. biden would like to win florida, but if he loses florida, there are many roads to take him to 270. there's another reason it's so
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important, this time, and it's about the timing of florida. as you guys were talking before, they know how to count votes in florida. they've started counting votes in florida. so, we might actually get the results in florida, on election night. and, for example, if biden were to win that, then his people would breathe a huge sigh of relief. and they would say, okay, we really can see the way. and if trump were to win, his folks would say, all right. there's -- there's a way for us. and what does this mean in -- in other states, like north carolina, for example? so, it is important. but, of course, i was there in -- in the year 2000, when florida was really important. and it was -- it was just over 500 votes that made the difference. >> yeah. david, i mean, former president obama won florida twice. trump won in 2016. both presidents had small margins. do you want to see the former president back there campaigning the next few days? he was there earlier this week. certainly, got a lot of attention. >> yeah, look.
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i think he's an effective -- and there -- there -- there's concern about minority voting in florida. not the pace of it but how it's going to break. the republicans have done well in the last few elections, among hispanics in florida. and particularly, the cuban population. the trump campaign has targeted young, black voters, very heavily. and so, you know, and young voters, generally, are a target for democrats. so, obama's helpful with these -- with some of these constituencies, hispanics, black voters, young voters, and so, they're going to dispatch him to work on that project. but they're going to michigan, this weekend, to detroit where it's also important. and so, you know, you have to ration your resources. but florida. just to emphasize something gloria said, anderson. florida is the difference between a -- a -- an election night where we think we have a
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verdict, and a long twilight struggle that might involve a lot of lawyers disputing ballots in these northern states. >> gloria, i want to play something the first lady said on the campaign trail, today. it was the first joint appearance in 2020. let's play that. >> in a time when hate, negativity, and fear, are the messages the media streams into our homes. and the large-tech companies are protecting political censorship, we need to remember what is really important. my husband's administration is focused on the future. >> i mean, hate, negativity, and fear, are the main messages, it seems like, of the president. >> yeah. i don't know. maybe, this is part of the be-best campaign. i have no idea. hate, negativity, and fear, in the same rally the president was full of hate and negativity.
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and the fear that this country feels is not from the democrats or she blamed the media. but it's about covid. and so, it's -- it's -- obviously, she's -- she's on a campaign. and the other day, she talked about socialism and all the rest of it. know, you know, i think it sounds awfully hollow coming from melania trump. >> not to mention, the future that the president is forecasting out there if biden gets elected is an apocalypse. >> exactly. >> so, fear is the tool he is using. >> david axelrod, gloria borger, thanks so much. next, the site of intense voter suppression tactics like the legal battles described earlier. what election day and days after may look like when we continue. and a champion for my own health. i talked with my doctor... and switched to... fewer medicines with... dovato. prescription dovato
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i want to focus right now on pennsylvania. they exceeded their pre-election voting levels from four years ago with nearly 2 million votes cast. it's a state that could be a tipping point in the election. it's also the site of one of the most intense legal battles, o. the sbreek has allowed democratic demands for -- just as samuel alito indicated the court could hear the case after election day. joining me now is the governor of pennsylvania, tom wolf. governor, thanks for being with us. to the people of pennsylvania that have not voted yet but want to, what steps should they take so their vote is counted, democrat or republican? it's five days to election day. >> right now what we're encouraging and urging everybody to do is if they haven't sent their ballot in yet, walk it to the election office or a drop box, but do it in person. >> and short of that, they should not mail in a ballot at this point? >> i think just to be safe.
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i mean the court has ruled that the state supreme court ruling that the ballots can be counted if they're received three days after the polls close, in other words, by the end of business on friday, that they'll still count. i just wouldn't chance it. just -- just, you know, walk it to the election office. take it in person to a drop box. that's the safest way to do it. then you know for sure it's going to be there. >> the supreme court decision yesterday about pennsylvania's mail-in ballot deadline extension doesn't necessarily mean the court won't agree to hear a challenge after the election. that's why it's so important to just walk it there or vote in person. >> yeah. i mean why take the chance? now, keep in mind, you know, military absentee ballots can be counted and always have been in pennsylvania for a week after the polls close. so we have always done that with our veterans, and we'll continue
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to do that. but just to be safe, you know, make sure it gets there. whatever the noise is out there, whatever the supreme court ultimately decides to do, if anything, just walk it to the election office, walk it to the drop box, and make sure you do this in person. >> in the wisconsin ballot case earlier this week, justice kavanaugh wrote, states want to avoid the chaos and suspicions of impropriety if ballots flow in after election day and potentially flip the results of an election. those states also want to be able to definitively announce the results of the election on election night or as soon as possible thereafter. is that correct? i mean does kavanaugh speak for you when he characterizes what states want? >> no. i mean as i said, military ballots have been counted a week, seven days after the polls close. i don't know for how long we've had military absentee ballots i think since the civil war in pennsylvania. i was in business before i was
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governor, so six years ago i was looking at post marks. and if somebody got a bill in that was postmarked on the date it was due and it took four or five days to get there, there was no late charge for that. i think this is the way the world works. but, again, we will segregate ballots that come in after 8:00 on election day for that three-day period if any come in so that if the supreme court changes its mind, they will be able to say, these are the ballots that came in after 8:00 on election day, and they can be disposed of however the u.s. supreme court decides they want to handle that. >> "the new york times" is reporting that in pennsylvania the trump campaign has essentially a kind of three-pronged strategy to suppress votes. "the times" said that they, quote, dispatched its officials to early voting sites, videotaped voters, and even pressed election administrators in the philadelphia area to stop people from delivering more than one ballot to a drop box.
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do you think the campaign has engaged in voter intimidation and suppression? >> voter intimidation is illegal in pennsylvania, so i would not want to accuse anybody of breaking the law. but they have taken a very aggressive stance legally, as you know. i mean they've been suing the life out of the local municipal governments, counties, the state, the department of state in pennsylvania, and they're doing everything they can. it almost looks to me like -- i mean, you know, when you played little league, if you didn't like the outcome, you always, you know, argued about the ump or the rules, and that's when you lost. and so it strikes me that there must be real concern that they're not going to win in pennsylvania. >> there's also been a lot of concern about the so-called naked ballots in your state, which are ballots that are mailed out the secrecy envelope. the courts have ruled those ballots cannot be counted. what's the state's plan to deal with that?
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>> actually in pennsylvania, each of the counties, we have 67 counties, and they're the ones that actually count the ballots. and it will vary from county to county. i think in most counties, if on early election day a ballot comes in the wrong way, if someone drops it off without the secrecy envelope or something like that or it's not signed, i think most of the counties will just say, hey, you know, put your signature on here. i think that will -- they'll take care of it. but you're right. the court has ruled that if it's not done exactly right, then it's not going to count. so we have made a big effort to make sure that people understand that there are two envelopes. one is the secrecy envelope inside the mailing envelope, and you need to put the ballot inside the secrecy envelope. the secrecy envelope has to go inside the mail envelope and then send that off like that. >> yeah. governor wolf, i appreciate your
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time. thank you very much. >> thanks, anderson. >> along with pennsylvania there's no question that wisconsin is another crucial state for both campaigns. as if to emphasize that point, joe biden and president trump are scheduled to campaign in the state tomorrow. there's also no question that wisconsin has been one of the states hardest hit by the pandemic. our bill weir now with a look at the state of play on both fronts. >> reporter: the future of wisconsin is being written in long lines, lines to vote and lines to test as the virus spreads at nightmare rates. so what are you worried about more these days, covid-19 or the election? >> it would be a toss-up. >> reporter: she is among the thousands pouring through this center in madison each day where they knock out one free test every nine seconds. the state's intensive care units will overflow within weeks, a final straw for biden voters who see trump's mostly maskless wisconsin rallies as super-spreader events. >> we're rounding the curve.
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we're rounding the corner. >> i don't understand how he can downplay the seriousness of this. it just totally escapes me. >> it's wrong. >> i think biden's going to win this state. i think that it has strongly affected the way that i would vote. i think trump has handled this abysmally. >> reporter: but in trump's wisconsin, from farm country up north to the suburbs of milwaukee, there is a very different level of covid concern. did it affect the way you think about this election? >> no, not at all. just stay safe. they have lots of hand sanitizer and alcohol wipes. they have glass protection. it's very safe. my biggest reason for voting for trump is biden -- i don't believe he is going to live that long. and i am a female but i'm not real comfortable with two females in office. and i don't care for nancy. >> reporter: her fear of nancy pelosi and kamala harris makes her the exception as polls show joe biden holding a wide lead among women. early turnout among younger voters is also off the charts,
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but milwaukee's black voters have yet to show up in the numbers that helped barack obama's first win. do you see that yourself? like there's a different interest now than there was in '16? >> for sure because of a lot of -- you know, a lot of things that occurred in the united states with, you know, police brutality, you know, and equality, you know, african-americans and other brown races. >> you're worried that what happened in kenosha might inspire the other side to come out? >> i mean, yeah. i mean it is what it is, you know? most definitely. >> reporter: it feels like bungee jumping during a hurricane. meanwhile, wisconsin's democrats lost a supreme court plea for more time to gather pandemic mail-in ballots, but they are winning every recent pre-election poll. >> and it's pretty clear when we look at the numbers that there are a lot more democrats voting early and absentee than republicans and more new voters who are likely voting for biden and harris than new voters voting republican. a single voter in wisconsin has a bigger say about
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