thanks very much for watching i'm wolf blitzer in "the situation room." you can always follow me on twitter and instagram at wolf blitzer. you can always tweet the show at cnn sit room. erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. out front next. trump's own homeland security department issuing a warning calling the 2020 election the most secure in american history. you heard me right as cracks in trump's republican wall of support is growing at this hour. the president right now refusing to concede. breaking news, two top homeland security officials forced to resign. now cnn is learning the cia director is on thin ice. who's next to go in what seems to be a clear purge? also breaking this hour, the cdc projecting another 40,000 americans could die from coronavirus over the next few weeks as the biden team is divided over another lockdown

for the country. good evening i'm erin burnett. out front tonight, the most secure election in american history. these words are from president trump's own department of homeland security. the statement breaking just moments ago. trump himself at the white house, not coming out, clinging to power and the department of homeland security's cyber unit issuing a stunning and powerful statement. the november 3rd election was the most secure in american history, period. there is no evidence that any voting system deleted, lost votes, changed votes or was in any way compromised. while we know there are many unfounded claims for misinformation about the process of our elections we can assure you we have the most confidence in the security of our elections and you should too. i just want to take a pause here. if you're at home think about

what i just read. that is from president trump's own department of homeland security. this sentence the november novemb3rd election was the most secure in history. it is the fact, and it's stunning. shouldn't have had to have been said. the president rage tweeting, at least 50 tweets, including lies about the election, like this one, trump claims voting software deleted 2.7 million votes for him. switched it that he would have won the states. this is false. now you have trump's own department of homeland security with this statement that appears to clearly, somewhat in response to that, saying it was false, there's no changing or deleting of votes and this is the most secure election in history. there's no sign that president trump is accepting reality or considering conceding. sources tell cnn he may not admit he lost until georgia

conducts a full recount which won't be done until the 20th of november, over a week away. a chorus of republicans are not waiting for the recount. they've had enough. i don't know what it took them to get to this point but they're doing it, governors, long-time republican strategists and even one of his evangelical allies telling him it's over. >> i think that we need to consider the former vice president as the president-elect. joe biden is the president-elect. >> evangelical pastor robert jeffers acknowledged that biden won and urged his supporters to pray for him. and karl rove, household name, also advise ir to the trump campaign, has written an op-ed saying the president's efforts are unlikely to move a single state from mr. biden's column and are not enough to change the final outcome. wouldn't be the case given the november 3rd election was the

most secure in american history per the department of homeland security. republican senators now, john thune, rob portman, chuck grassley, even lindsey graham telling cnn it's time to give biden access to classified briefings. it's a small step that they're saying that, not going the whole full monty but it is, given the backing that trump received, a crack in the solid wall of republican support. the sad news is he lost, even in arizona, the president tweeting from 200,000 votes to less than 10,000 votes if we audit the votes cast we will easily win arizona also. but a post election audit found no evidence of fraud. right now biden leads by more than 11,000 votes. close but a wider margin of victory than the one president trump won michigan four years ago. trump's department of homeland

security tonight, the november 3rd election was the most secure in american history. caitlyn collins is at the white house. arlette, let me start with you. how is biden reacting to this and the statement from homeland security coming out moments before our program began. but it is a significant statement coming from within the trump administration itself. >> reporter: it is erin, and president-elect joe biden is simply plowing ahead with his transition planning. completely unphased by what they are hearing from the trump administration. biden is moving forward with his planning, even continuing to field these congratulations phone calls, including one from pope francis today, which is significant for biden since he's only the second catholic to become president when he goes to the white house. biden also today spoke by phone with congressional leadership, with house speaker nancy pelosi as well as senate minority leader chuck schumer, they

talked about the coronavirus crisis in the phone call. but one person joe biden has not spoken with still is mitch mcconnell. the two had quite a long working relationship together and it's the relationship that could be critical to biden if senate republicans are able to hold onto the majority. for the time being that conversation still has not taken place. but biden is really putting all of this aside and still moving forward with his transition work. he is here in rehobeth beach, delaware, he and his wife own a vacation home here. but he's continuing to meet with his transition advisers as they are plotting the next steps ahead. >> let's go to caitlyn collins at the white house. the president sitting there watching tv now learning that his own department of homeland security has said what he's tweeting is absolutely false. what is his mindset right now?

>> reporter: we should note that comes as to what is basically a purge under way at dhs, several top officials forced to resign by the white house presidential personnel office. they've been the ones conducting these loyalty tests across the administration. as far as the president's mindset we know he knows he's lost this election. what the difference is here is that he has not said as much publicly. admitted it privately but publicly still tweeting about fraud and these baseless accusations that joe biden has stolen the election from him. so the question is when does he come to terms with reality in a public manner to where his supporters understand what the president sees that we've all been seeing. that's the question we don't know the answer to. we know sources say they believe when the president does acknowledge his loss he's going to tee a 2024 run even if he hasn't made a final decision. we're told that's what going to happen. it's not just the president

admitted 2020 he has something he's teasing going along with it. as far as the here and now, he is meeting with political advisers daily, they understand what's happening. as his political advisers are saying give him a few more days, a few more weeks he'll come forward admitting it, he's misleading his supporters who believe there is fraud because the president is alleging there is fraud without any evidence. it's important to note the president is misleading a lot of people by making that claim. >> it's a crucial point you make because there are people who believe it. given that he knows the reality, it appears that's the goal is to have people believe these falsehoods. it weakens our country and you also are reporting, caitlyn, i know about the president's adult children. what's their involvement right now? >> reporter: they're basically split as we've seen them so many times before on what the president should do going forward. you look at ivanka trump and jared kushner, considering their own future for what happens in a post-trump world, a post-trump country.

they believe the president should calibrate his message, stop pushing the fraudulent claims. of course, it's got to be this delicate nuanced manner to push the president. no one is going to the president saying you've lost this election it's time to concede. they're telling the president what he wants to hear but also waiting on him to make the final call. you 'not seeing that from the donald trump jr.s and the eric trumps, encouraging him to fight and push the baseless claims on social media. you're seeing a division inside the family, which we've seen before as donald trump has been president but we're seeing it come to this epic point now as they're deciding what is he going to do. the question for advisers, how long is this going to last? it could be weeks, days, no one seems to know, erin. >> thank you very much. i want to go to the department of homeland security. they said when you have questions, go to officials they have the answers.

long-time republican who manages georgia's voting system, gabriel sterling. i saw a lot of you over the last week. as i was sitting here and you were coming out with the counts and making sure we knew how to pronounce the counties and all of that. let me give you a chance to react to this news. the president today comes out with the tweet about dominion voting machines, which are used in georgia among other states. he said this changed the vote from trump to biden, this would have changed the whole thing, dead people voted in georgia. what do you say to all of that? >> we have no evidence to show that anything along those lines occurred. in fact, we launched today what will be the largest hand retallying audit in the history of the united states to assure everybody. because at the end of the day, erin, our job is to make sure that everybody has faith in the outcome of the election. because of things said by many

people, not just the president, there are going to be a swath of voters who no matter what will never believe those machines didn't do that. that's why we'll do the hand count as our audit. our intent is to be transparent and regardless of outcome make sure the will of georgians are met. >> what's your response when department of homeland security says the november 3rd election was the most secure. they came out tonight and said it, in part probably because of the allegations he put out about the voting being changed with voting machines. i know it was tough with mail in and all of that, but would you agree with that, the most secure? >> i would agree georgia had the most secure election in our history. one thing many people don't know, this is the first time in 20 years we used paper. we had been using the direct recording e lelectronic devices

for 20 years, and the absentee was 25% of our ballots. in-person was 75%. the issue in michigan where they had one collection supervisor make a mistake with a database that had weird results, that was not a glitch, a software issue, it was a human error. we've seen nearly every time when it comes to elections any issues fall down to the faulty piece of equipment and it's human beings because we're flawed. we make mistakes. the systems are built to catch the mistakes and errors so people can have faith at the end of the day their vote counted the way they intended and the result is the result. >> i think it's significant that you say it's the most secure in history that people do not confuse closeness with perhaps being inaccurate. right. i think that's what's being sowed out there. it's not true, that's the point you're making. just because it's close, so what

it's close. your job is to count the votes, right? >> the closeness of the election shows it was a real election. if someone was going to do something hinky, they may have made it bigger. in georgia 53% of the votes for house seats went to republicans. 54% for senate seats went to republicans. 51% of congressional votes went to republicans. the republicans came in first when you combine their stuff in both u.s. senate races. we had issues in fulton county where there were 9,000 more votes cast for senator perdue than president trump. >> we saw splitting the ticket across the country. let me ask you about the recount because you say you'll be doing this hand recount. he has tweeted, the president of the united states, that he will win georgia with the recount. the numbers right now, joe biden is ahead by about 14,000 votes, 14,102 it went up 50 votes

overnight. do you think anything will change the outcome of the results, the recount you've been involved before, we're at 14,102 votes. >> this is not the recount, this is an audit that happens to get to a hand tally. the situation here we expect is you will always see some differences. we've been saying that to the beginning. you're introducing human error. but to change the outcome would be massive. in michigan in 2016, it was all hand marked ballots. there were about 2.5 million votes they had gone through i think hilly picked up 850, trump picked up 750. so it was a net change of 100 ballots. that's what you see in these things. part of the reason to do this is because there are people that don't trust the machines to count them right. so i'm hoping there's no massive change in this because we're

putting our chips on the table to say we trust the system and we know it's correct. >> i appreciate your time, gabriel thank you. >> thank you. have a great night. >> i want to go to harvard law professor lawrence tribe, he was part of al gore's legal team during the 2000 election recount. you hear gabriel sterling, life long republican i want to make clear here. he wants to get this right. that's what he cares about. he says it's fair to say this is the most secure election in georgia's history. the department of homeland security has come out contradicting what the president of the united states said in a tweet today saying it's the most secure election in american history. what's your reaction to that? >> my reaction is this is very clear that this has been an incredibly secure election. and the only fraud is the fraudulent claim of the president that there was massive voter fraud. it's interesting that the president was saying, you know,

when -- when he was ahead in pennsylvania and georgia or at least when the vote count made it look like he was ahead. he said, stop the counting. and when it looked like he was behind in nevada and arizona he said, let's count more votes. he's just making it up as he goes along. and the proposition that his own homeland security department has said this was the most secure, least fraud vulnerable election in our history, the notion that we should pay no attention to that but just listen to the president is profoundly misguided. and what i worry about isn't that any of these recounts, like in georgia, will make a difference. recounts have never, in the last 50 years, no statewide recount has flipped more than 355 votes. so they won't matter. and it's clear that the tens of

thousands of votes by which joe biden is ahead will remain very much in place. despite all of these frivolous lawsuits. what i worry about is that there are perhaps 70 million people who listen to what the president says and pay attention to him and believe that our election system is insecure. and undermining faith in democracy undermines democracy itself. that's what i worry about. >> and so, as you have been looking and i think many people share your concern that does appear to be the biggest threat. i know, professor, you have been going through every lawsuit that the campaign has tried. you said they were 0 for 12, you've been reading through every single complaint. have you seen anything legitimate out there now? >> no. >> how has your analysis changed in the last 48 hours? >> it hasn't changed at all.

i keep reading what they're filing and it doesn't make sense. today in the arizona case, the president's lawyer, when pressed by the judge said, no we are not actually alleging fraud we are saying there might have been an honest mistake here or there. when you're counting 150 million votes there are bound to be one or two mistakes here or there, but that's not going to flip the result of an election. so the situation is exactly as it was a couple days ago. except with every passing day the president and those who are enabling him does more damage to our democratic system. it's about time that he move on, because the rest of us have moved on. >> i want to ask you one other question with your legal expertise. former aides tell cnn that trump has been talking since 2017, right, so for the past three years, whether he could pardon himself before he leaves.

one former white house official said trump asked about self-pardons as well as pardons for his family. could he do that, pardon himself and anyone he wanted to for any unknown criminal acts found subsequently before he leaves office? >> he can certainly pardon his family but pardoning himself would be an extraordinary and unprecedented act. hundreds of years ago, lord cook in england established a principle that has been accepted in american law for centuries, and that is you cannot be a judge in your own case. if he tries to pardon himself, i think in the end that pardon would not hold up. but predicting what a court would do with such an unprecedented exercise of power is hard. one thing we do know, he certainly cannot pardon himself vis-a-vis new york prosecution, either by leticia james on

behalf of the state of new york or by cyrus vance on behalf of manhattan. state and local crimes, serious crimes, often punishable by years in prison are not subject to the president's pardon power. another thing we know he can't pardon himself from the possible espionage he might commit after leaving office when he leaks secrets for his own benefit, classified information from his own government. he's not good at keeping silent. those future crimes are beyond the reach of the pardon power both the state and federal government. >> thank you. i appreciate your time as always. thank you. >> thank you, erin. next, more breaking news. we are learning trump's cia director is on thin ice, is she the next to be fired as the

purge continues today. and the cdc is now projecting roughly 40,000 more americans could die from coronavirus over the next few weeks yet the president on this issue silent. new results coming in tonight from several crucial battleground states. john king is standing at the magic wall to break down the new numbers we have at this hour. ♪

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breaking news. cia director gina haspel is on, quote, thin ice. this as they forced two top homeland security officials to resign. it comes after a purge this week that forced out top officials. several top national security officials dumped since the beginning of the week. seven or something, cia director gina haspel could be next. >> she's on thin ice. the purge is spreading to dhs. gina haspel hasn't been on the president's good side for a variety of reasons but most recently because of her reluctance to release documents relating to the russia investigation. they've wanted her to do that.

they can do it themselves but they want her to do it but she's reluctant because it would reveal how the intelligence community would gather evidence. as you note, the dismissals today spreading to the department of homeland security, one the assistant of affairs, valerie boyd and a senior member of the agency, brian sissa were both forced to resign. we're told it was because they were perceived to be anti-trump. and this leads to the fate of the chris krebs, he was put in charge of securing the election, the voting by all accounts that went well. dhs and his agency said no votes were changed, lost or deleted. and he's been extremely

aggressive at shooting down conspiracy theories and false claims not only by the president but by his allies, by his supporters. there's one nefarious conspiracy theory that has taken root that krebs has repeatedly called a hoax and nonsense. one thing he tweeted tonight, it's a retweet of another elections expert which reads please don't retweet wild and baseless claims about voting machines even if made by the president, these fantasies have been debunked many times. he's echoing what this president is saying, that these fantasies and baseless claims have been put out there by the president. so chris krebs is well aware that there's a target on his back and he is on this list alongside gina haspel as top officials who could soon find themselves fired by the president. >> i want to bring in senator

ron wyden. member of the intelligence committee. mr. krebs clearly, i'm reading between the lines he wanted to put the statement out saying the november 3rd election was the most secure in american history and referring to the unfounded claims out there, which we know have been put out by the president. you heard about the retweet. is there anything you can do to protect him from the president's wrath? >> first, erin, i want your viewers to know where i think we are. i hope i'm wrong. but it sure looks like donald trump is firing anybody who might say no to an illegal order. that's essentially what these cases that you're talking about, chris krebs, for example, has always been a straight shooter on these election security issues. he was trying to deal, for example, with a whole tidal wave of false rumors. and he did it by the book.

that's not what donald trump wants. and donald trump is basically systematically replacing all of these people, who won't be just his version of a glorified version of a yes, man. >> you have this issue with krebs as alex is reporting in light of the stunning and unprecedented statement put out by his unit within dhs. then you have gina haspel. sources tell us trust between the white house and the president and the cia is completely broken down. the words we have for director haspel's situation is on thin ice. do you think she's about to lose her job? >> the important thing for your viewers to know is whatever you think about gina haspel, the probable replacement for her is richard grinell, he would be a national security disaster, because consistently he's been

about politicizing intelligence. so again, you come back to all of these challenges and they add up to one obvious reality. and that is, donald trump is putting his political agenda, this distorted, skewed agenda, he's putting it first ahead of america's national security interests, and the 9/11 commission and others have warned about that kind of thing in the past. >> yes. >> and unfortunately it's coming home to roost. >> they have. they said the lack of briefings that were received by then george w. bush because of the e recount contributed to security misses involved with 9/11. it's stunning when you think about what's at stake. you now have two more top dhs officials out today. three over at the department of defense, the secretary of

defense, our -- you know, when -- can this be undone, senator? i think this is what people want to understand who are watching right now. is this something you say, okay, this is bad but if we get through this in 60 days, these people will be reinstated or great people will be put in. is this a bump in the road or is this bigger than that? >> this is far bigger. these are very real consequences. and the reality is for too long republican senators i'll touch on why they're so important now, have always said give trump time. well, you've got a small child, i've got a small child, you don't allow tantrums with your small kids. these are ones that have national security consequences. and what i just hope is, instead of what we've seen over the last couple of days, a handful of republicans says well, gee we probably ought to have these briefings, we need republican

senators to make it clear publicly, vociferously that this is a threat to this country and this country's well being. we've always been about a peaceful transfer of power. i believe joe biden is the president-elect and we ought to get on with making sure that he can start building the agenda on everything from the coronavirus to dealing with national security quickly. >> senator wydon, i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. next the deadly pandemic is getting worse. record hospitalizations, icus full in multiple states, more than 100,000 new cases for the 10th day running. and our sanjay gupta now calling it a humanitarian disaster. he's next. former president obama speaking out now about trump's refusal to concede. >> the president doesn't like to lose, and never admits loss. tem my grandfather founded industrial bank in 1934

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breaking news. an influential coronavirus model predicts the u.s. could hit 439,000 deaths by march 1st. just to be clear, that would

mean in the next three and a half months we nearly double the number of people who have died in this country over the past eight months. 197,000 more people dead in the next three months it comes as the deaths today exceed the people killed in the 9/11 terror attacks. and reporting more than 100,000 cases for the 10th day running. despite the crisis getting worse by the day, president trump has not been a part of it. take a look at his public schedule post election. two days in a row, his only public events were giving remarks where he was spreading falsehoods about election fraud. tweeted 50 times today. five days of no public events in his schedule. he did play golf for two days. only official event was a ceremony for veterans day yesterday. today, once with the vice president, meeting with his secretary of state, and the treasury secretary, nothing

public, nothing about coronavirus. the task force met this week for the first time since october 20th. the first time in a month. the lack of leadership comes when american lives are at risk. you're seeing hospitalizations at record levels, deaths are surging. someone is dying every 43 seconds. someone is dying every 43 seconds from coronavirus in this country. the president, though, public schedule, coronavirus schedule empty. playing golf. this is the same guy who said this about then president obama in 2015. >> we have a president that can't lead. he said the hell with it i'm not going to do this anymore, i want to rest and do other things, including going out and play golf. >> as the virus spreads across the country, it is continuing to spread in trump's inner circle, his campaign adviser corey lewandowski testing positive for the virus. corey lewandowski wearing a mask was at the white house election party. he says he believes he got the virus after that in philadelphia. and "the washington post" also

reporting tonight at least 8 rnc testers tested positive which is what happens when you have people coming in, working close quarters without masks. up now, dr. sanjay gupta and dr. reiner. i appreciate both of you. sanjay, you know these new projections coming out, nearly doubling in death. it took eight and a half months to get to where we are now and they're going to almost double those numbers in the next three and a half months if there aren't dramatic changes. you used strong words talking about the united states of america and a humanitarian disaster. why? >> well, i don't use those words lightly, erin, i think this is a humanitarian crisis at this point. i've been doing this sort of work for almost 20 years and i've covered a lot of humanitarian crises all over the world. if you look at the specific ones going back to the tsunami in south asia, the earthquake in

haiti, the somali famine, these are the toughest situations to cover, you can see, 220,000, 260,000 people died in these. we had 240,000 deaths already and we're in the middle of it, you said the projections for how many people will die. but it's also the point you raise. it's a series of events that have occurred in this country where we have had a tragic number of deaths, the majority of which could have been prevented. we have a situation where hospital systems have been overwhelmed at times and we're hearing from model ers tonight that just about every state in the country is expected to run out of icu beds in the winter. what does that mean for someone who needs to be in the icu, and that can't happen we don't have the beds. we have to fly you out of the

state, the regions. we're a country that doctors without borders came to because they go to the hottest spot in the world, this summer it was the united states. i don't use these words lightly but it has been a humanitarian crisis in the country and as you know the numbers are still getting worse. >> dr. reiner, just to be clear, as the death tolls are climbing, someone is dying every 43 seconds and icu beds are being overrun, we're seeing it in state after state, situations worse in terms of the icu situation in a broader swath of the country than we've seen in any other point. just to make it clear, the things that need to be done to have those numbers not come true need to be done now. they cannot wait until even if the biden administration turns on a light switch and does something different on january 20th. so it matters what the president is doing now, what the coronavirus task force is doing right now. do you see any sign that anything is happening? >> no.

our house is on fire. and the president has basically locked himself in his bedroom. we had 151,000 new cases today. we're averaging about 129,000 cases a day over the last week. our hospitals are increasing by 1,600 covid cases per day. and yet our president hasn't made a single statement about covid since before the election. he had the mental energy today to tweet about cable news ratings. but not a single word about the covid crisis. we need action now. there's new leadership coming in two months but we're burning now. and needless deaths will occur if this federal government doesn't take action. i understand that the president's ego has been shattered by this electoral loss. i get this that. but he needs to pull up his big

boy pants and get to work. if he does not have the mental capacity to do that now, the constitution has a remedy and the vice president should begin those proceedings. but we need federal action we need it now. we cannot wait. >> sanjay there has been this sense out there because of the numbers from pfizer, and people will start getting vaccinated and you hear it from governors here in new york you hear it, a few more months and e we're good. the vaccine news is good, pfizer appears to be 90% effective it's wonderful but the chief said today we cannot wait for a vaccine, and president obama's former cdc director, thomas freedman said this. >> a vaccine is really important and the news is very encouraging but vaccination is not a fairy tale ending to the pandemic we'll be dealing with it through

2021 and quite possibly beyond that. >> is this the reality we need to accept. vaccine is great news but we still have a year or more? >> yes. look at the timetable. there's data to say how quickly can this be distributed, get it to the general public and all of that, that puts it with this massive distribution project if the vaccine gets authorized second quarter of next year. as reporters, scientists we have to ask these questions, the early data, which we haven't seen for the pfizer vaccine says it's 90% effective against covid-19. that's impressive as people have said. we also need to know, this relates to your question, does it prevent people from transmitting the virus? it's great it prevents them from getting as sick. does it prevent them from transmitting the virus, because that's the critical point towards decreasing the

trajectory of the pandemic. there's other things we can do now, we talk about them all the time, masks and indoor locations that can be addressed. but the vaccine is still a while away. >> that's a hard thing to accept. thank you both as always. up next, biden's popular vote lead expanding tonight as more results are coming in from several crucial battleground states. john king is standing by at the magic wall. and president obama on trump's refusal to accept the election. >> it's one more step to delegitimize not just the incoming biden administration but democracy generallily. but there's a solution for those secret stinks: gain flings laundry pacs! gain flings has more freshness ingredients compared to bargain liquid detergents. they have 3 super powered ingredients that fight stink: oxi boost, febreze odor remover, and concentrated detergent. just toss in a couple of pacs.

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tonight, new results coming in from georgia, pennsylvania and arizona as we inch closer to the finish line. president-elect joe biden expanding his lead in pennsylvania, maintaining the margin in georgia while the race narrows in arizona. so let's get to the bottom of all of it. john king out front at the magic wall. so, john, what do the new results show? >> most of all, erin, they show that tweets and lies and frivolous lawsuits don't change

the fundamental rules of politics, that is math. math. let's go to pennsylvania. you mentioned joe biden's lead. 54,273 votes. remember, this is the state that put joe biden on the top. we projected that just before noon on saturday. the lead is bigger now. and it is growing as small late ballots come in. the stale state of georgia, you talked to mr. sterling at the top of the hours. joe biden's lead there, 14,102. back around noon time when we called the race, it was a little bit more. the president has narrowed the gap some here. noon eastern time on saturday when we projected the race for joe biden because of pennsylvania, it was 20,573. so the president has closed the gap there, but they're almost finished with the count in arizona, erin. that could be done within hours or certainly by tomorrow. and naenevada just because the president's team said bad things

happened in nevada, so no matter where you look, arizona is a little tighter. but biden has held on to his leads and, again, math is math. >> okay. so math is math, and when you look at, you know, when ballots have to be received, we're now -- because of mail-in, right, everybody had different dates by which you had to receive a ballot which was postmarked by election day. in north carolina if you postmarked it by election day, you had until today. so it's 7:51 eastern, you know, a couple hours past the close of mail. so when -- when can that be formally projected. >> let's take a look at north carolina. we're waiting on one number, and before i explain that, look, the president has a pretty healthy lead here. 71,787 for president trump. no one in the biden campaign staying up at night thinking they're going to win north carolina. the reason we have not called this one yet, as you noted, that deadline was today. what we do not have yet from north carolina officials, how many, what is the total universe of mail-in ballots they have to count? is it a big enough number to have any probability that joe

biden could overcome that 71,827 vote lead? again, in the biden campaign there is no indication, no belief that will happen, but we need that big number. how many votes do you still have to count before our statisticians can be sure? >> it's pretty incredible they don't know that number. >> they haven't told us yet is the answer. >> i know in other states obviously it was so crucial to the projections, right? if you don't know your denominator. president trump obviously is putting out these false statements. i just want to emphasize this. you have been talking about this from the beginning. in a lot of these key states, the margin is actually wider than what we saw in 2016, right? when it wasn't contested, it wasn't going through this fraught, horrible experience that everybody's going through. >> let's walk through them. and remember on that night, hillary clinton called the president on election night and she gave a public concession speech the morning after. one of the close states back then was pennsylvania. joe biden, 54,000-plus right now. let's go back in time, 44,000.

joe biden has a bigger lead in pennsylvania today than donald trump did four years ago. another state that was crucial four years ago, michigan. somehow the trump campaign thinks it's going to go to court and overturn this one. i've been doing this for a long time, erin. nearly 150,000 votes. 148,000-plus for joe biden. 148,000-plus, donald trump carried michigan by 10,704 votes four years ago. hillary clinton did not cry fraud. she respected the process. let's go out to georgia. georgia's a place donald trump carried four years ago. the fascinating part about this, go back in time, hillary clinton ran a pretty strong race in georgia. the democrats thought the state was starting to move. 1.8 million votes to 2 million votes. if you come to the results, democrats got almost 600,000 more votes in georgia. they turned out their votes. erin, one more point. here is the reality of this. i just want to do this one more time. let's allocate these. let's say the president wins north carolina, we assume that's going to happen, georgia and arizona, he has to turn three

states. even if he turns michigan and pennsylvania in court, pipe dream. it's not enough. this is simply ludicrous. it's not going to happen. >> it's not going to happen. we all know it, and it's time that he says it. thank you, john. and also breaking tonight, former president obama speaking out publicly for the first time about trump's refusal to concede the election to joe biden. >> they appear to be motivated in part because the president doesn't like to lose. and never admits loss. i'm more troubled by the fact that other republican officials who clearly know better are going along with this, are humoring him in this fashion. it is one more step in delegitimizing not just the incoming biden administration, but democracy generally. and that's a dangerous path. >> jeff zeleny is "outfront."

our senior washington correspondent. and abby phillip, our political correspondent. so, abby, you know what's interesting there from president obama? you know, he has, of course, spoken out about president trump, right? very strongly. but in this answer, i thought what was interesting was is he made it bigger than that. he went after the whole gop, people he thought were reasonable within the gop, right? it's a significant step for him. >> yeah. i think that it reflects his own evolution on this, i think over time. this is a president who repeatedly talks about how he in general believes that the system works to push against some of the things that president trump does. but i think what he's acknowledging in that clip is that he was surprised to find that an element of the system, which is the president's own party, isn't even doing that, and i think that -- that him voicing that concern really is reflective of broadly what other democrats feel as well, which is that this episode is maybe the final episode that proves that

president trump has had a dramatic effect not just on you know, his administration, but on his party, potentially on the country, and you heard him saying again in that clip that he was concerned about democracy. just like he said at the democratic national convention several months ago. >> so, jeff, president obama did this interview ahead of his memoir, which is coming out called "a promised land" and you are one of the few who have actually had a preview. you've read the book. so you shared an excerpt where obama points to sarah palin and the tea party as the root of some of the divisive rhetoric we see today. here's what he writes, through palin, it seems the dark spirits long lurking on the edges of the republican party, xenophobia, anti-intelectism, paranoid conspiracy theories finding their way to center stage. i'd like to think that given the chance to do it over again, mccain might have chosen differently. i really believe he put his

country first. what did you learn from that, jeff? >> it's really an extraordinary summation of what president obama saw in real time as he was sitting in the white house. primarily with the rise of the tea party movement back in the 2010 midterm election campaign when, you know, there was a rejection of the obama policies. and personality more than that. so it was not the republican party that he had served in the senate with. it certainly was not the republican party that he had served back in the illinois state senate with. he thought that he could work with both sides of the aisle. he thought that he could bridge the red america and the blue america. that came to be not true. so this is the most, you know, directly and bluntly we have heard former president barack obama confront race and really show how his election and president trump's election was a reaction to the obama presidency. that's why this book is so fascinating. he has always hesitated to talk about this. now, erin, he's talking about it directly. >> and, abby, another thing in here i found very interesting

that jeff was sharing, president obama talking about the toll the presidency took on his marriage. he writes, quote, despite michelle's success and popularity, i continued to sense an undercurrent tension in her, or the way politics exposed our family to scrutiny and attacks or even the tendency of friends and family members to treat her role as secondary in importance. lying next to michelle in the dark i think about the days when everything between us felt lighter, her smile was more constant and my heart would suddenly tighten at the thought that those days might not return. you know, abby, it is interesting. she opened up similarly in her memoir, and people really care deeply about learning these things. these are human beings, right? what do you make of his decision to include such intimate details? >> well, i think you nailed it, erin. when your wife has already written about some of this stuff, you don't have a whole lot of options here. i think the president --

president obama understood that michelle obama had already paved the way for this conversation and it would have been, i think, probably more surprising if she had -- if she had been so open about their marriage and about seeking marriage counselling at a certain point and all of these things and that he failed to do the same. i think it's just about that kind of balance. but you're totally right. i think that michelle obama's book was impactful for a lot of reasons, but i think one of the biggest was her honesty about their relationship, about her -- the fact that she really hated politics and it put a strain on their marriage. and that was i think very relatable to so many americans. and hearing the other side of that is surprising. you really do rarely hear president obama talk about their marriage in that way, but i'll tell you, as someone who covered them years ago, it -- i don't think it would come as a surprise to many reporters who covered that white house. there were always rumors that michelle obama was more unhappy than she seemed in spite of everything going on, the high

heights that they had reached and he's opening up now about exactly what those things were. >> right. all right, well thank you both very much. i appreciate it. and thanks very much to all of you for joining us. "ac 360" with anderson starts now. and good evening. there are no available icu beds left in the state of utah. none. nearly 3900 new covid cases just today in a state with only 3.2 million residents. and no icu beds available. the top health official in mississippi says the same about his state capital, jackson, no icu beds available there. in iowa, the governor's reporting a positivity rate of 21.8%. for the third straight day, illinois is reporting more than 12,000 new cases. >> we're running out of time. and we're running out of options. our growth in new cases is now exponential. the numbers don't lie. if things don't take a turn in