and good evening. there are no available icu beds left in the state of utah. none. nearly 3,900 new covid cases, just today. in a state with only 3.2 million

residents. no icu beds available. the top health official in mississippi says the same about his state capital, jackson, no icu beds available there. in iowa, the governor's reporting a positivity rate of 21.8%. for the third-straight day, illinois is reporting more than 12,000 new cases. >> we're running out of time, and we're running out of options. our growth in new cases is now p exponential. the numbers don't lie. if things don't take a turn in the coming days, we will reach the point when some form of a mandatory stay-at-home order is all that will be left. with every fiber of my being, i do not want us to get there. but right now, that seems like where we are heading. >> nationwide, tonight, the data science team at johns hopkins university is reporting nearly 124,000 new cases for the day. more than 1,200 deaths. and remember, those numbers won't be final, for hours, yet.

they will rise. in the hour that i'm on air, tonight, more people will die. yesterday, 1,435 americans died due to covid, according to johns hopkins' count. now, maybe, all the numbers are starting to sound the same but they shouldn't. they can't. we owe it to the dead and to their families. we owe it to the sick to pay attention, to mourn, to do whatever we can to bring the numbers down. to lessen the suffering of our fellow human beings, our fellow citizens and neighbors, our countrymen and women. this is the most important story in america. this is the most important story of our time. dr. sanjay gupta pointed this out to me, today. remember, the horrific tsunami in 2005? that earthquake in haiti. that killed at least 220,000. the somali famine between 2010 and 2012. that took nearly 260,000 lives. covid has killed nearly as many

americans, or more americans, than those catastrophes. so, with icus filled and the death toll rising, you might wonder, what did the sitting president say about it today? or what did he tweet about that, today? well, it should come as no surprise but it is shocking, nonetheless, he said nothing. not a word. aides telling cnn that he is now dejected and downcast, not about the lack of icu beds in utah. no, he is dejected about losing the election, about himself. sources, also, telling us his kids are split over what to do next. not what to do about covid, mind you. not about those 1,435 americans who died yesterday. no, the kids are split over what their daddy's next move should be. should he accept defeat and try to salvage something of his legacy? or continue to make up claims of widespread voter fraud and lie to the very people who believe him most, his supporters. keeping him honest. accepting defeat. it's not up to him. he was defeated. he lost.

he lost an election that his own department of homeland security calls, tonight, quote, the most secure in american history. let that sink in. the department of homeland security calls it the most secure in american history. in other words, this shouldn't even be a thing but it is. and as a consequence, we are watching america first give way to me, first. the president has not spoken publicly for a week. he hasn't received a national security briefing since october 2nd. as far as we know, he's not met with his covid task force since august 4th. however, he has been sending out one rage tweet after another. and for a change, we're going to read you one just so you can get an idea what's on his mind, the day after more than 1,400 lives, here's the tweet. at fox news, daytime ratings have completely collapsed. weekend daytime, even worse. very sad to watch this happen but they forget what got them there. they forgot the golden goose. the golden goose.

the most powerful man in the free world, in the middle of the worst, mass-casualty disaster since the 1918 flu, is tweeting about the ratings of cable news shows and weekend cable-news shows. and he is tweeting, not even in the third person but, in the third goose. this guy has checked out. at least when it comes to anyone but himself. think about what he said in that tweet. very sad to watch this happen. he's not talking about covid. he's talking about ratings of cable-news programs. and he says that a lot. that -- very sad to watch this happen. the same as, oh, we'll see what happens. as though he's always just a bystander or a viewer looking at a show. just changing the channels. watching us all live and die, get sick. just watching. just watching the show. criticizing, of course, as you do with shows. but taking no responsibility for any of it. last night, in the program, "the

new york times" maggie haberman who began covering donald trump back in his real estate days said something along those lines. referring to his state of mind regarding election defeat but i think it speaks to more than that. here's what she said. >> he doesn't want to face the fact that the election is over and that he has lost. and also, there is a part of him and i know this is hard to grasp for people even after all these years. but he sort of just likes watching the show. and whether it's going to turn out differently for him, maybe, if he just keeps going. >> just keeps going. watching the show. the president, she says, just likes to watch the show. i mean, think about the level of detachment that suggests. then, remember, what he said back in early august about the pandemic. >> i think it's under control. i'll tell you what. >> how? a thousand americans are dying a day. >> they are dying, that's true. and it is what it is. >> it is what it is. easy to say if you feel no

connection to or responsibility for others. but for someone who just likes to watch the show, well, he can just change the channel. and say, oh, yeah, it is what it is. what else is on? or as he later told bob woodward, nothing more could have been done. when he said that, on the 14th of august, 168,427 americans had died. nothing more to be done. the numbers, now fast approaching a quarter million. and the cdc's new combined forecast projects that by december 5th, just three weeks away, as many as 282,000 americans will have died. new forecasting from the university of washington's institute for health, metrics, and evaluation, now is projecting 438,000 deaths by march 1st. the president said nothing more could have been done. really? nothing. couldn't think of a thing. never mind, actually developing a national testing and tracing strategy or coordinating supplies of ppe. he couldn't have, maybe, you know, stopped holding mass rallies. couldn't have said, perhaps, a few words about wearing a mask. other than, quote, i don't see

it for myself. which is what he said when he actual will i w actually announcing the cdc guidelines, all the way back, months ago. immediately, undercut it by saying, not for me. but sure, for you all, if you want. the incoming team which seems to be taking the pandemic very seriously, get briefed. he won't allow that. i mean, that would be something he could do. but the answer, of course, is no. not for the covid team. not for anyone, in fact. not even for the president-elect, for the safety of the security and the future of the country. that's a big deal. but a president who's checked out. it's really no biggie. if it weren't so sad and so consequential, it would be funny. but for that, there's -- there's always white house press secretary, kayleigh mcenany. bless her heart, as they say in mississippi. taking us completely through the looking glass, and then beyond,

to a galaxy far, far away. remember, this is the spokesperson for the white house. listen to what she said. >> kayleigh, while this is happening, it's been brought up by senator lankford, a republican. he said, listen, give joe biden a presidential daily brief. after all, senator harris gets -- she's on the intel committee. she's getting -- she has high -- high-level security access. has the president considered that? >> i haven't spoken to the president about that. that would be a question more for the white house. >> that would be a question for the white house? says the white house spokesperson? that is next-level stuff. cnn's chief white house correspondent, jim acosta, joins us now. she is still the spokesperson for the white house, right? >> as far as we know, anderson. she has not held a briefing, in some time. she was with the president for that nutty statement he gave in the briefing room one week ago, tonight. but i think she is of the same

mindset that the president is, right now. they are dug in. talking to advisers, this evening, anderson. we do not expect the president, at this point, barring some kind of big turnaround on his part, to give up these challenges, until after they make their way through the courts in -- in about a week or so, from now. >> yeah. i mean, most of them are making their way through the court, like, you know, stuff makes its way through a golden goose. i mean, they're going through the court pretty fast because most judges are just tossing the stuff out because there's no there, there. >> and falling flat on their face. and when the president is talking to his advisers, yes, he is dejected. he is upset about all of this. he's lashing out at fox news. he wants to settle scores with people like the cia director and defense secretary and the fbi director and so on. but they are, also, considering some other, nutty ideas. for example, this evening, i talked to a trump adviser who said that they have been talking about the prospect of whether electors in some of these individual states could go rogue. and choose the president over joe biden in some of these states that went joe biden's

way. i mean, that takes you to the level of, you know, insanity, really, that they're contemplating, at this point, because the president cannot accept the fact that he lost. at this point, you know, this adviser i spoke with earlier this evening. this adviser said that the president is starting to grasp the reality that he is not going to find a way out of this. and that, we're nearing the next phase, in the words of this adviser. but, you know, it doesn't sound like it's going to come fast enough. it sounds like the president wants to drag this out, as long as possible. to see, as you put it earlier, see what happens. >> you also have some new reporting about a top official behind the dhs, department of homeland security, tonight calling the election the most secure in american history. what are you learning? >> yeah. well, one individual official that we are focusing on these days, anderson, an official named chris krebs. he's been on twitter the last several days, debunking

trump-world conspiracy theories. upsetting a lot of people inside the president's orbit. and i talked to somebody, earlier this evening, an official, earlier this evening. who said krebs has been telling people around him he doesn't care if he's fired, at this point. and in of tthe words of this senior-administration official, what they're going to be doing in that office and across department of homeland security, according to this official, is making sure democratic process is protected, not one individual. anderson. >> jim, stay with us. i want to bring in our chief political analyst, gloria borger, as well. so, gloria, conflicting advice the president's apparently receiving from his family. what have you been learning on this? >> well, you have his two adult sons, eric and don jr. who are gung ho, fight to the finish, do whatever you can because you won this election, it was a rigged election, and on and on and on. and then, you have jared and ivanka, who are are a little bit more difficult to decipher. they have been more measured, i would say, from our sources.

and i should say, this is a story i did with pamela brown and dana bash. and we -- we spoke to a bunch of sources who said that, look. they know that their legacy is tied to the president's legacy. jared believes he's achieved a lot. say, in terms of foreign policy. so, they are trying to look for a way to say to the president, on the one hand, you know, you're great. you started a movement. you should be proud of this. and, on the other hand, acknowledging privately, that there's got to be an exit strategy. and maybe, that's november 20th after the georgia rekounlcount. or november 30th, when arizona is certified. nobody knows. some people accuse jared of being on both sides of this. first, being more aggressive and, now, not being as aggressive as reality sets in. but the family is, at least the two of them, are trying to figure out just how to deal with the president, without insulting him in a way or making him feel

that his legacy is any less great than they believe it should be. because, after all, he got more than 71 million votes. >> also, they're going to be stuck with him, in exile, you know. when he's in exile in mar-a-lago, you know, whatever. doing -- building up a media empire or whatever he -- he will do and i'm sure he'll be very successful. i mean, they're going to be the ones, you know, who are still going to be in his orbit. does anyone, gloria, around the president believe he is putting the country first right now? i mean, he doesn't actually seem to be working. >> no. well, we can all see that. as jim points out and our white house correspondents have pointed out, we haven't seen him publicly. i spoke to a republican, who is close to the president, i would say. and he said to me. and let me -- let me quote this to you. he said, he's not worried about the republican party. he's worried about how he can commercialize and monetize all of this. >> well, yeah. >> yeah. so, the tv, the -- maybe, he

will and start charging for them. bigger than oprah's. who knows? who knows what's in his future? but that is on his mind. if you see his tax returns, published in "the new york times," he has a lot of debt. >> jim, i mean, the idea that there would be more republican pressure for the president to concede after the georgia recount, do you buy that? they're obviously worried about the two republicans who are up for re-election in georgia for the senate. and they should be scared because he is very capable of trying to, you know, he's now biting -- attacking -- seeking to destroy fox news. he's -- he has no loyalty, to any of these people. >> right. i think, anderson, that's why some of these republicans are being so, so careful. i mean, we've seen some statements come from a few senators, here and there. staying it's time for joe biden to start getting intelligence briefings and so on.

but i think what we're probably headed into is yet-another hostage drama. instead of the nation being held hostage, it will be the republican party held hostage. and that's how so much of this is playing out, at this point. why would some of these republican lawmakers want to go against the president, at this point, when he is talking about firing the cia director and secretary of defense. he's already done that. and the director of the fbi. they don't want him lashing out at them, too, because of that poe potent base. but, i will tell you, anderson, you know, one of the things that stands out as we move forward here, is just how long the president thinks he can do this. how long he thinks he can last in all of this. because at some point -- and it may not be people independen th republican party. it may just be these court cases falling flat on their face. the reality of the recounts that are going to be happening in states like georgia. he is going to have to endure essentially losing this election, all over again. which is something i'm told by some advisers is a prospect they

just don't want to see. they think that's further humiliation, further embarrassment for the president. and reminding everybody out there that he lost this election, something he doesn't want to repeat. >> yeah, go ahead, gloria. >> anderson, i think, with donald trump, he always has to be the hero of his own story. and so, what i think we're watching play out is him trying to formulate how he becomes that hero. and, is it the man who got more votes than any republican who ever ran for the presidency? the election was stolen for him and he rose from the ashes. and he -- he became, you know, has a great following and is -- becomes a tv star and runs again in 2024. by the way, freezing the entire republican field, i might add, who might be looking to think about 2024. is that how he does it? we just -- we just don't know the ending to this. other than, the fact that joe biden will be sworn in, as president of the united states, on january 20th. >> gloria borger. jim acosta. appreciate it. coming up next. "art of the deal" author, tony

schwartz on what he thinks is going on with the president. if there's any strategy there and what he fears he might do in the coming weeks. later, chris murray, on the new covid projection his institution just put out and what can be done by this administration and the next and all of us to save lives. ♪ i see you looking (uh) ♪ i see you looking (na, na, na) ♪ ♪ i see you looking (uh) ♪ i see you looking ♪ watch what i do (camera clicks) ♪ watch what i do ♪ i see you looking ♪ watch what i do! (camera clicks) ♪ watch what i do ♪ i see you looking ♪ watch what i ... do!

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wipandemic raging, reported, getting conflicting advice from

his grown kids about what to do next. in addition, there is new reporting from "new york times"' maggie haberman saying if the race is certified for joe biden, the president will announce a 2024 campaign, shortly after. joining us right now is tony schwartz. he is author of "dealing with the devil, my mother, trump, and me." and, of course, "the art of the deal." so, tony, the president to announce he is going to run in 2024, what do you make of that? >> totally, plausible. makes sense that that's what he would do. he does not want to lose his -- his ability to reach the public. he wants to be the person who is at the front of -- at the front of the line. and i have no idea if that's, in any way, realistic. you know, one of the things that we're not talking about, anderson, is that this man's going to walk out of office into

a flurry of potential criminal indictments. and i don't see this as being gerald ford, you know, pardoning richard nixon. i see this as a time where it is critical that the legal process play out. the legitimate, legal process. and i think there's a very good chance that trump is going to find himself, both indicted and potentially convicted. >> on the day the race was called for president-elect -- president-elect biden tweeted this was, quote, the worst moment of donald trump's life. the idea that he is a loser in this race. i mean, that is one of the things. that's, you know, one of the go-to -- that's one of his harshest criticisms of somebody. that, they're a loser, however he defines that. >> yeah. i mean, in -- in donald trump's binary, narrow world, you are either a winner or a loser. it's -- you can't be both. you either dominate, or you

submit. so, for him to be a loser, for him to submit, for him to be humiliated, is the equivalent of obliteration. it's as if he doesn't exist, at all, which is obviously intolerable to him. so, yes, i think this is a man going through an incredibly difficult time. not that he's aware he's in a difficult time. what i think is he's moving between delusion. so, i think there are, literally, periods wrehere he believes, either, no, i won this. or, yes, it's true that i was cheated. and then, he moved out of that. he has a brief moment of reality. and what normal people would feel is depressed. donald trump doesn't do depression. so, what he feels is rage and blame. >> it's just exhausting. i mean, it just must be exhausting to -- to be around him. >> listen. i could hear it in your voice. i certainly feel it, myself. i thought that we'd come out of this election. and if biden won, that i would

feel a tremendous sense of relief. maybe, even exultation. i don't because, if a few votes had turned, we would have had an autocratic leader within the white house, without question. every bit as autocratic as the worst of them around the world. and he isn't going away. he is not going away. one way or another, he will keep his hold on the republican party. he will keep his hold on the media because the media will continue to respond to the more outrageous things he says. and we are in for a very difficult period, ahead. at a time, when as you said earlier tonight, we're in the worst pandemic in, you know, certainly, in the last 100 years and maybe one of the worst pandemics we've had. so, this is -- this is a time to be sober and -- and reflective, not to be punching your fist in

the air. >> cnn has reporting that there's a split between his children about what to do next. or, i guess, the children who weigh in on these things. donny jr. and eric trump. apparently, urging the president to, you know, keep fighting. and ivanka trump asking if it's worth the damage to his legacy and business. i don't know how true it is but i guess that's the word we have been getting. does -- i mean, does what his kids think matter to him? >> no. i was just going to say that, anderson. it doesn't matter a whit. you ever seen him whittle away the influence of person after person after person, over four years. i think he has, you know, he's looking, as you can see so clearly, for the people and institutions he can blame. so, fox. but also, i think, you're going to see him begin to find many, many more scapegoats because he

can't tolerate the notion that he is responsible for losing. so, no, he -- he has -- i mean, you know, he'll listen to it. but he won't pay any attention to it. he has moved into that state of believing that only he knows best. and he should trust his instincts. and that's all he has to trust because he's not capable of really putting together two thoughts, to come up with a logical conclusion. >> something. the -- the lack of loyalty, though, i just find fascinating. i mean, you know, turning on fox news. i get he's annoyed, you know, that their -- that they took polling and things like that. and that they actually have some people who -- there who, you know, report the news. but, you know, he has no loyalty to the gop. he has no loyalty to any of these senators. i mean, they have every reason to be scared that he would go after or not support the candidates in georgia, if, you know, he was really annoyed and felt like he wanted to really stick it to the gop or who he

felt didn't support him. >> no conscience. no empathy. no heart. no loyalty, because absent a conscience and a heart, absent the capacity for love, why would you be loyal to anyone? his loyalty is to his own survival. we've known that now, of course, for a long time. now, we're seeing it play out. i don't think you were surprised. i'm, certainly, not surprised, in any way, that he is behaving exactly as he is. this is who donald trump is. it's -- it's a sad fact in america, and this is, also, what a sociopath does. he is a sociopath, and he is behaving in that extraordinary way, that a very small percentage of the population do. and it's bewildering to the rest of us. >> tony schwartz. i appreciate you being with us. thank you, as always. just ahead. more proof, this time from

arizona officials, that the voter fraud president trump claims exists, just does not. and we will speak with a top-republican election official on just how far this president and his allies may take these claims. a live bookkeeper is helping customize quickbooks for me. okay, you're all set up. thanks! that was my business gi, this one's casual. get set up right with a live bookkeeper with intuit quickbooks. now, there's skyrizi. i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. 3 out of 4 people achieved...

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breaking news, now, on the election. it's not just the federal government coming out today and saying, as jim acosta reported earlier, that this election was safe, fair, and secure. arizona officials are just the latest to state clearly and definitively that, contrary to president trump's claims, there is no voter fraud. secretary of state's office there says more than half of all counties have conducted

postelection audits. they found absolutely no evidence of voter fraud. earlier today, trump tweeted if the votes were audited, we would quote, easily win arizona. i want to go to cnn's magic wall and phil mattingly. >> the short answer is no. i think arizona's actually a great place to start, to underscore that joe biden, as more votes are being counted, st only serving to solidify a pathway likely to 300 electoral votes. a place president trump's made up ground over the course of the last several days, closing on joe biden by several thousand votes of the right now, joe biden's lead sits at 11,000. however, this is the reality on the ground in arizona. there are only about 16,000 votes left outstanding. in other words, president trump would have to win roughly 85% of what's outstanding, in order to catch up to joe biden. and right now, the majority of the outstanding votes are from democratic strongholds. republicans, anderson, on the ground tell me the only thing that's left right now is for

this to end. they know arizona is likely not going to end up in their pathway. the other state, still, outstanding. the state of georgia. joe biden, again, adding to his vote total now at 14,149. obviously, this state is headed to a hand recount. and, anderson, 14,000 votes is not the type of margin that gets flipped by a recount. that is not something that just minuscule errors would start to change. 14,000 is a very, very comfortable lead. likely, adding, at some point, another 16 electoral votes to joe biden's total. obviously, we continue to check in on pennsylvania because the trump administration, the trump campaign, has paid so much attention on the legal side of things to pennsylvania. well, what's happened here? joe biden, today, has added another couple thousand votes to his lead. now, sitting at 54,726. and just as a reminder, president trump, back in 2016, one of the strongholds of his victory breaking through the blue wall. won the state by 44,000 votes, anderson. >> and just update on the popular vote, if you could. >> yeah. i think this is important context for what's going on right now. joe biden, right now, up by

5.28 million votes. and if you want to put that into context, over the course of the last 20 years, only one other presidential election has had a margin that -- that's that wide. that was president obama, back in 2008. joe biden has had more voters vote for him, than any other president in history. and also, another fact to pay attention to. right now, he is at 50 50.8%. that is expected to go up probably around the 52%. the only challenger in the history of the last hundred years, franklin roosevelt, back in 1932. this is a definitive victory for -- for vice president biden and i think it underscores, even though there are close races in several states across the country, joe biden on track for 306 electoral votes and on track for one of the largest margins we have seen over the course of the last 20 years. anderson. >> phil mattingly, thanks. perspective now from ben ginsburg, worked on two presidential campaigns and a key figure in the 2000 recount.

what do you make of department of homeland security saying this is the most secure election in american history. but also, audits in arizona's counties that have turned up no evidence of voter fraud? >> it's very significant for the overall narrative, and the reality that president trump and his campaign have to face. i've been in this stage on losing recounts, before. and it is a hollow and empty feeling. and what you want to do, what you're doing, is hoping against hope that something turns up. the reality is, as phil pointed out, you're not going to make up the margin in the recount. and it is accepting the obvious, that comes next. >> i'm not sure how much of a strategy there is for the trump -- trump campaign's, you know, legal maneuvers. but, how have they gone, thus far, i mean, how -- how have -- you know, you've looked at, i'm sure, the presentations that are being made in court because that's really what this all boils down to. how do they differ from what people are seeing on social media? and -- and sort of all the --

you know, the hype around it. what are they actually arguing in court? and how is that going? >> well, the social-media narrative that, somehow, this election has been stolen is not, at all, backed up by what's being presented by the trump campaign in court. in court, what their lawyers are doing is presenting very broad, very generalized statements about the process, somehow, being flawed. but the reality is to win these cases, you have to present individual ballots that were either fraudulent or irregularities that took place. their complaints are very, very scant, in that area. and judges are, basically, being very dismissive of the trump arguments in court. combined with what you heard from homeland security, anderson, i think his -- his lawyers are closer to being sanctioned than they are to

success, at this point. >> when you say being sanctioned, what do you mean? >> well, when you present evidence to the court in the form of affidavits, it better be accurate. and if you present inaccurate information to the court, judges take a dim view of that. what happened in pennsylvania with the postal worker who is really the core of their original case. and him recanting his affidavit saying that there were no destroyed postal ballots is an example. if that becomes a pattern, in these cases, then judges are going to be -- are going to be pretty upset, at that point. >> there's this reporting in "the wall street journal" that the trump campaign could try to stop certification in key states that have been called for president-elect biden. could you explain that legal strategy? and could that actually work? >> sure. so, it is -- it is the longest of longest shots. but, it appears, in -- in these states, what they're trying to do is to say that the counts aren't accurate.

and they will, or could, eventually, go to court and ask for the court to enjoin the secretary of state from providing an official certification of the votes. there's no official certification of the votes by the december 8th safe-harbor deadline. then, there is a case -- again, a case that's never been made before but exists in theoretical possibility, that the legislature should step in and name a slate of electors so that the state is at least represented in the electoral college. if you'll note, the states where these cases are being brought, all, have republican legislatures. >> is that -- i mean, is this just a wild fantasy? or i mean, the way you explain it. it does seem like that's an actual path. i guess -- >> encourage -- i'm encouraged the lawyers are allowed to have fantasies. and in this case, i think this

is a legal fantasy that, that would take place. for a case like that to work would mean that a judge would be willing to basically disenfranchise the popular vote in the state. and -- and just sort of throw it to the legislature to come up with a subjective judgment. i don't think a court is likely to do that. and i don't think legislators are going to want to disenfranchise their constituents. >> ben ginsburg, appreciate your expertise. thank you. >> thanks. >> up next, the actual crisis the president is not addressing. we have new coronavirus projections from a well-regarded model suggesting how deadly this winter will be in the united states. the director of the institute who conducted this research joins us, when we continue. with an adjustable precision jet spray and an advanced pad system. and offers personalized cleaning suggestions unique to your home. braava jet m6 and the irobot home app. only from irobot.

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common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. if you're living with hiv . . . . . . keep loving who you are. and ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you. we have breaking news on the coronavirus pandemic. as cases and hospitalizations spike, the latest projection from a model from the university of washington says the u.s. will reach 439,000 deaths from this pandemic by march 1st. and that's if most states abide by social distancing and other mandates. otherwise, the projection is 587,000 deaths. let me say that, again. 587,000 lives lost to this pandemic. that's a projection. hospitalizations have set a new high for the third day in a row. currently, 67,000, just for today. again, case trends, currently, looking like this. headed straight up. look at that.

straight up. setting new highs, almost daily, as well. in fact, today's nearly 124,000 cases could pass the new high set yesterday of 144,133. today, michigan's governor gretchen whitmer said her state in the worst part of the pandemic, to date. and that hospitals are nearly at capacity, and burning through personal protective equipment. all of this, as the administration said, today, that widespread vaccination should occur by april. joining me now, cnn chief medical correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta. and dr. murray, as always, appreciate you being with us. so the newest forecast, predicting the most likely scenario, crucially, assuming states will impose or reimpose social distancing and other mandates. you predict, without those mandates, we could be looking at a staggering death toll of

587,000 deaths by march 1st. can you explain what's behind those numbers? because -- because 587,000 deaths. i mean, that's getting close to the death toll in america from the -- the spanish flu pandemic. >> well, what's driving it is the same thing that we've been seeing for many weeks, now, anderson. which is, the fall/winter surge, you know, driven by people going indoors. having more indoor contact. and it's what we've seen play out in europe. and now, we're catching up. so, we're seeing the huge, exponential rise in cases. deaths, starting to follow suit. we're already at over a thousand deaths a day. quite a bit more than that. so, our numbers that see us getting to, you know, 2,200 deaths a day, mid-january, are perhaps conservative. and that does require 33 states to put in mandates. so, absolutely, it can go much worse than that. >> dr. murray, the daily death count in the new forecast expects the most likely scenario

that daily deaths could reach 2,200 mid-january. then, slowly decline by march 1st. is that because of a vaccine by that time? or is it weather related? or what are the factors? >> no. we have not, yet, factored in a vaccine. we think that -- and we will be, in the next couple of weeks, building, explicitly, the pfizer vaccine and perhaps other vaccines as they come out. but we don't think the timing of the vaccine is really going to change the story between now and march 1st. some health care workers will get the vaccine. but it won't be in the numbers to reach the general public, to really change the course of this winter surge. the decline, after mid-january, is that we expect seasonality to start to go down, in masome states. every state will have a different peak but that's the main driver of that decline. but it's going to be a very slow, like it was in april in new york, it will be a very long, slow decline, we suspect. >> you know, sanjay, i think what's so scary about the

numbers is that, you know, as always, the data accounts -- puts into account, the idea that states, in this case, now are going to impose some new social distancing mandates. michael osterholm, who is a member of president-elect biden's coronavirus advisory team talked about a four to six-week lockdown. from a medical perspective, do you think some kind of regional lockdown is going to occur? if it's not -- if there's not a national one? >> well, i don't -- i don't know if it'll occur, anderson. i mean, i think there's so many things at play here. but, i do think that, you know, it would work. i mean, i'm not necessarily advocating for that. but i think these circu circuit-breaker sort of lockdowns, if the goal is to try to break the cycle of transmission, as effectively as possible, separating out all the potential hosts, which are us, as much as possible, would make a big difference. but, you know, we are learning

other things as well in terms of how to make that more targeted. there was this paper that came out in "nature" i think in the last couple days. basically, saying we have studied the in cities for example, gyms and caves and restaurants and hotels, if you really look at the mobility, and dr. murray may know more about it than i do. if you kept maximum occupancy to 20%, maximum occupancy you would probably decrease viral transmission by 80% they say. that is not answering the question about the lockdown but there are other strategies to. i am curious, when i look at your models it seems that once death tolls hit a certain mark or a certain trigger that the model assumes the mandates go

back in place. is that true? how confident can you be that people abide by the mandates? >> we believe and i think it is what we have seen in ireland, france, belgium and britain and the czech republic. even though politicians said they would not put mandates back in when the hospitals get overwhelmed they do. we keep testing the threshold. since the beginning the threshold stayed clearly around about eight deaths per day. so far people beyond. our leaders respond when things get really grim. they don't see a response in north and in south dakota. in most places we do think that is what will happen. if they don't things will be worse. >> appreciate your time. thank you. up next more breaking news.

former president obama speaking out on president donald trump's baseless claims of election fraud. >> it is one more step delegitimizing the biden administration -- >> next, more of what he had to say. concrete is fundamental to every structure. [music playing throughout] to build a house, you need a strong foundation. the same is true for building a business. black-owned businesses are an integral part of america's foundation. they lay the groundwork for other black businesses like mine - that turns concrete into something beautiful. i'm kimberley robles, and i'm the owner and founder of robles concrete design. the citi foundation is helping our community partners facilitate more loans to black-owned businesses.

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it's dangerous. and we do know how to keep you and your loved ones safe. wear a mask. wash your hands. stay six feet apart. we can do this. if we do it together. breaking news tonight from former president obama. he is is adding his voice to the

baseless election fraud claims by trump and his allies. the publication of his memoir, president obama criticized trump and republicans that joined in. >> what are these false claims of widespread election fraud doing to our country right now? >> they appear to be motivated in part because the president does not like to lose. never admits loss. i am more troubled by the fact that other republican officials who clearly know better are going along with this and are humoring him in this fashion. it is one more step in delegitimizing, not just the incoming biden administration but democracy in general, and that is a dangerous path. >> that new book president obama

writes it is as if my presence in the white house has triggered a deep-seeded panic and a sense that the natural order has been disrupted which is what donald trump understood when he started to peddle assumptions that i was not born in the united states. perspective now from van jones. it is really fascinating to hear the comments from the former president about race and how he believes it played into donald trump's election in 2016. especially now just days after america elected joe biden and kamala harris. do you think many americans are seeking president trump's elixir? >> i think that change is hard. i think that change is hard for everybody. even change that you want. you work hard to get your kids well educated.

the day they graduate from high school, you break down crying. that is change you wanted to work for. so, i do think that we have technological change, demographic change, it can create a background of anxiety and unacknowledged grieve and fear that demagogues can exploit. i think it is fascinating to hear president obama speak about that from his point of view. >> i want to get your reaction to president obama's comments about the election results. he said he is more troubled by what other republicans are doing, six days past when the election was called. what do you think will happen in the short-term and in the long-term? even with the georgia recount there were some saying the president might admit defeat after the georgia recount. he could hold on for as long as he wants until the time he has to walk out of the door. the georgia election running of

the two republicans there, all of these republican senators will stay silent because they are afraid he will sabotage him. >> i think everybody is just baffled. nobody knows what to say or what to do. this is unprecedented in the history of the public. the president is embarrassing himself. he is embarrassing the country. biden is showing extreme patience and showing extreme calm. luckily he understands america's government well. he is beloved around the world. he can begin the process. i want to say that every time i can, if you believe in america first. that was one of the great slogans. america-first. this is not america-first. this is trump-first, me, myself and i first. republicans who believe in america-first need to be clamoring for at least a