good evening. on the day the world got to celebrate the possibility of a second vaccine that could be ready to deploy in weeks. president-elect joe biden made it clear today during a speech in delaware that it takes more than vaccines to end the pandemic. we have to cooperate together, he said, all of us. not just across party lines but in his words, also, cooperate with the world health organization and the lerest of e world in dealing with this. the symbolism of the event couldn't be missed. he just met with two groups that do not always get along, corporate leaders and business unions. if we want to resume our lives and put this pandemic behind us. if we want to have not just a thanksgiving and a christmas,

but as biden said, a next thanksgiving and christmas, we have to do everything possible and spare no effort to fight covid. quoting him, they want us to cooperate. they want us to deliver results, he said. he didn't directly mention president trump when he said those specific words, but he didn't have to, at least at first. because with the good news of a possible vaccine comes a need to coordinate the distribution of it, and the rising cases across the country call for coordination between current-government officials and the incoming administration. but, that is not happening. that is, still, not happening because the current president, who will leave office on january 20th, whether he likes it or not, is still blocking the incoming-biden team's transition. president-elect biden was asked about it, this afternoon. >> what do you see as the biggest threat to your transition, right now, given president trump's unprecedented attempt to obstruct and delay a smooth transfer of power? >> more people may die, if we don't coordinate.

look. as my chief-of-staff, ron klain, would say, who handled ebola, a vaccine is important. it's of little use until you're vaccinated. so, how do we get the vaccine? how do we get over 300 million americans vaccinated? what's the game plan? it's a huge, huge, huge undertaking to get it done, prioritize those greatest in need, and working our way through it. and also, cooperate with the world health organization and the rest of the world in dealing with this. and so, they say they have this warp-speed program that not only dealt with getting vaccines but, also, how -- how to distribute this. if we have to wait until january 20th to start that planning, it puts us behind, over a month, month and a half. and so, it's important that it be done, that there be coordination, now. now or as rapidly as we can get that done.

>> quoting the future, 46th president of the united states, more people may die if we don't coordinate. well, today, 739 reported deaths, and counting. the cdc says, today, that rural americans are now dying at nearly three and a half-times the rate of urban americans. caseloads, exploding, across the country, too. more than 153,000 cases, right now, and counting today. on sunday, we crossed the 11 million mark in cases, total. these mileposts, they're coming quicker, every month, you might have noticed. you know, it took us 98 days to reach that first million cases, in this country. remember that. 98 days. because this latest million, to go from 10 to 11 million. this latest million took just six days. from 98 days to six, to reach a million cases. it is serious out there. it is all-hands-on-deck time. for his part, dr. anthony fauci agrees we need a functioning transition. >> it's almost like passing a baton in a race.

you don't want to stop, and then give it to somebody. you want to just, essentially, keep going. that's what transition is. so, it certainly would make things more smoothly if we could do that. >> so, just as a public-health measure, you think it would be a good idea if your team would be able to work with the biden/harris transition team, right now, just in terms of what's best for the public health of the american people? >> of course, jake. that's obvious. of course, it would be better if we could start working with them. >> and, yeah, it is obvious. of course, it is obvious. no matter how much the current president's feelings are hurt or hopes dashed. no matter how angry he is or what lies the sycophants around him are whispering in his ear, it doesn't matter. one man's hurt and anger and fury, it's nothing, even if he's the president of the united states. it's nothing, when measured against the hurt and the anger and the fury you can, now, see in any hospital in america.

in icu beds, where people are gasping for breath. gasping for life. want to talk about hurt and disappointment and feelings? how about feeling for them? those desperate gasps for breath? that is what we should be hearing and listening to and talking about and doing everything we can to help. let's stop talking about the man sitting in the white house, huffing and puffing in anger, and spewing lies. and he had a childhood with a tough father. his feelings don't matter. certainly, not more than the feelings of family members, desperately, hoping, right now, somewhere in america, that some overpaid and under -- overworked and underpaid nurse or doctor will have a few minutes to, maybe, hold up their phone so that the family can at least see their dad or mom. afraid that tonight might be the night that she or he doesn't make it through. how can this man, currently in the white house, who says he cares about america and

americans, first, above all else, how can he delay a transition? make it more difficult? how can he make it so that there isn't a seamless transition, that doesn't possibly interrupt an effort to distribute a vaccine to all of us? how can he make sure -- how can he not have a seamless transition and coordination, so that contact with researchers isn't interrupted? and new information and the transmittal of knowledge is not interrupted. how can anyone do that? admiral brett giroir, who serves on the now-invisible coronavirus task force for this president, said over the weekend, it's been five months since the president attended a task force meeting. five months. that -- i mean, it's fine. it's the choice he made. history will be the judge. but now, there is work to be done. and there are new people and they are ready to do it. next week, the cdc starts the process of determining which of us, which americans, will be the first to get the vaccine. that is an incredibly important

decision. not everyone can be at the front of the line, and people will have to wait. so, it should be obvious why you would want to give an incoming administration access to the people who are making these decisions right now. because, in about 65 days, it becomes their decisions, too. and they have to make it work. in our democracy, the people speak and the people change the course of history. that's what they did, and that is what has already happened. and the president is free to fight this in court, all the way to inauguration day. he's been laughed out of courts. his lawyers are dropping, left and right. his time is over. let the new administration have a transition, and let's help americans through this crisis. medical perspective now on the vaccines and the damage caused to our public health because of the president's refusal to allow transition. former cdc director tom frieden and our chief medical

correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta. so, dr. frieden, president-elect biden today saying more people may die. what is so important about a transition just in terms of the midst of a pandemic? what are the kind of things that, the knowledge that has to be passed, the information, and logistics? all of that? >> transitions are enormously complicated, even without a pandemic. and we're about to start the most complex vaccination campaign in american history. with multiple, different vaccines. two-dose series, for some. extreme-temperature requirements. an environment of lack of trust. a need for community engagement and communication. all of that stuff is going to go from one team, on january 19th, to another team, on january 20th. before most of the vaccinationlivaccination will have been done. it's essential that there is good collaboration, communication, coordination, to pass the baton because any slip is going to mean less-rapid

rollout. less-rapid improvement in our response, even short of a vaccine, to curtailing transmission and stopping clusters and cases and protecting people in nursing homes and elsewhere. so, all of this obstruction is really getting in the way, not just of one group talking to another but, of the government being able to work, around the clock, to protect american lives. >> and, sanjay, the vice president, supposed head of the white house coronavirus task force. he led a call with the country's governors, today. his first time on the wun once-weekly call since september 29th. he tweeted out these pictures where he appears to be the only person not wearing a mask in the room. this is cdc director redfield next to him. masks do work, there is not a debate about that. it is incredible to me that

there's still not consistent messaging from this administration. especially, from, you know, pence who, you know, has been part of the spread of this virus. i mean, people around pence. i mean, it's -- again, it's -- it would be funny, if it wasn't so deadly serious. >> yeah. i have a -- i have a hard time understanding this. this is probably going to be one of the great mysteries, you know, when we look back on this. the whole thing about the masks and -- and -- and those pictures, in particular. because obviously, this has become politicized. but now, you're in a room full of people who are not -- they're doctors, they're scientists. they're all wearing masks. we understand, you know, the -- the -- the concerns about being in an indoor setting, in particular, with this virus. and, you know, he's the head of the coronavirus task force. he'll say, look, i get tested on a regular basis. >> we all know how efficient their testing has been. i mean, they've been lying about that for, you know, since the beginning. >> yeah, i mean, so, it just -- it -- it makes no sense. he's, also, the person who, you know, went to the mayo clinic. this was a couple months ago.

into a covid ward and did not wear a mask. you know, and then apologized for that saying he should have done it. but again, it feels like this lesson has not been learned by this task force. at least by vice president pence, i should say. and -- and i don't know that i'll ever be able to understand that or explain it. >> yeah. and again, i mean, you know, they're on the way out. they are leaving. they're going through the court fights but they are leaving. but, dr. frieden, i mean, they can do damage on the way, you know, as they are slowly being pushed to the door. they can do a whole lot of damage and people's lives are hanging in the balance. the focus of that call, dr. frieden, was the distribution of vaccines. and today, we learned the moderna vaccine is 95% effective. that's -- i mean, sounds incredibly, like, great news. should the trump administration be getting credit for some of this? even with all their other missteps? i know, the other vaccine, the pfizer one, was not part of operation warp speed. >> i think there's a lot and i have been saying this for months

that's gone really well with operation warp speed. the idea that you would fund the manufacturer, at the same time you fund the development. so, you would cut a few months out of the delivery. that's a great idea. the idea that they bet on four different vaccines so that, if any of them don't work out, there's a likelihood that another will work out. their willingness to pay what are called advanced-market commitments so that the pfizer vaccine, which wasn't funded by operation warp speed, was funded, in essence, they guaranteed a market for it. and that was reassuring to pfizer. this is all really good. what we haven't seen is that same level of detail in the planning of a vaccination campaign because, anderson, vaccines don't stop epidemics. vaccination programs stop epidemics. and those depend on trust. depends on transparent information, communication from scientists, assurance that it's not going to be politicized, assurance that it's not going to be used for political purposes.

and it's fortunate that, in fact, the fda and the cdc have stuck to their guns. and it is the fda advisory committee that will use the standard procedure to see, is this safe and effective? cdc, what's called the acip, which gives recommendations for who should get it and when, that will look at the actual vaccine data and make science-based recommendations for how we can be fair and save the most lives. but state and local governments need to be doing a lot of planning. i would say, to summarize, we're ahead of schedule on vaccine development. but we're behind schedule on vaccine distribution. and that's a big, complex, and crucially important undertaking. >> sanjay, how -- how -- what's your view on the moderna news? >> i -- i think it's -- it's very exciting news. i mean, the idea that we didn't even know if this type of vaccine was going to work. this mrna vaccine. this is the first time we will have a vaccine like this, and it looks like we will have a vaccine like this. but just, you know, i think dr. frieden's point is an important

one. and i would even take it a step further. we put a lot of eggs in the vaccine basket. you know? and it's the home run. it's the knockout punch, whatever metaphor you want to assign to it. but at the same time, we kind of ignored everything else, right? i mean, the -- the -- the things that we should have done all along, can still do, haven't been done. you know, it reminds me of this -- there's this commercial i remember seeing on tv. larry the cable guy would come on, and basically eat whatever he wants and then take a purple pill. right? i can eat whatever i want, as long as i have the purple pill. the metaphor is the same here. we're doing whatever we want, not really paying much attention to this, and the vaccine is the purple pill. still, got to eat right. still, got to do the right things. and we haven't been, as a country, doing that. >> yeah. and everyone -- it's got to be widely distributed and actually taken. sanjay, appreciate it. dr. frieden, as well. there is breaking news now on those lawsuits in key, battleground states the president's team has tried and failed to use to derail joe biden's path to the white house. so you have new reporting on how

the president and his team are approaching these legal challenges. what are you learning? >> that's right, anderson. we learned last week the president was upset when he found out his campaign was dropping the arizona lawsuit. so he summoned officials to the oval office and campaign officials and lawyers. rudy giuliani was on the phone. and i'm told by multiple sources it became very contentious, with rudy giuliani accusing the trump-campaign lawyers of lying to the president. even though they had been telling him the truth that the odds were stacked against him. that he, likely, would not be able to change the outcome of the election. rudy called them liars. in response, the deputy campaign manager, justin clark, fired back at him and called him an effing a-hole. the next day, rudy giuliani was put in charge by president trump. so he went up and the trump campaign lawyers descended, essentially, as it was put to

me. rudy's strategy is to fight to the bitter end and focus on conspiracy theories. rudy has been in the president's ear pushing these conspiracy theories about election software made by the company dominion and allegedly changing votes. there is no evidence to support this. dmon yon dominion's come out to refute it. there's been no evidence shown. but that is really where rudy's focus is. and i am told by sources he's really been pushing that with trump, and making him think that there is a chance, if he pushes, you know, with these legal cases, that really are just a long shot. the ones that are already happening right now are just a long shot. and we're already seeing some shakeup with rudy at the helm, now, anderson. today, there was the second set of lawyers who were replaced in the pennsylvania case. and i'm told that that was directly related to rudy. >> i'm sure it's a crack team who has replaced them, if it's been appointed by rudy giuliani. there is, also, those on his team, including family members, who do not agree with this approach, correct?

>> right. so, i'm told by multiple sources that there are essentially two camps here. in one camp, you have rudy giuliani who is aligned with the president's sons, don jr. and eric trump. >> sure, great company. >> and essentially -- essentially, they -- they have the attitude of we just need to keep fighting and never give up. guns ablazing, right? >> sure. >> so, that is one camp. even though, most people, i mean, pretty much everyone else, is in consensus that there is really no path here for the president. and the majority of white house officials, aides, allies, the president's daughter, ivanka trump, jared kushner, the trump campaign lawyers. they -- they know that, look, there's really no -- no chance here for the president to -- to overcome this. and they've told the president that. they've been honest with him. but what's -- what's interesting about this, anderson, is in talking to sources, there has been sort of this shift. last week, sources thought the president, this week, would come out and, you know, say something about the fact that he did not win this election, in his own words. and allow for the transition to

happen. they thought that would happen. but now, there is a change in tune and they're very concerned that that's not going to happen, now, with rudy at the helm. anderson. >> all right. well, fascinating. truly is fascinating. pamela brown, i really appreciate it. thank you. more, now, on the lawsuits and how president trump can hold up the transition. senior washington correspondent, je jeff zeleny joins us now. so, what's the strategy now? shifting chairs in the titanic. >> anderson, they are keeping their eye on these legal cases everywhere. as pamela mentioned, certainly in pennsylvania, but first, and foremost, i'm told it is that hand recount in georgia. that's where the biden campaign's legal team is keeping an eye on, as they are recounting, going through, auditing all of these votes. but so far, they are saying that they are not coming up with any widespread irregularities, or even big changes in votes.

a few things are changing, here and there. but right now, the biden lawyers are sort of watching this and watching it play out as time is ticking away. closer to january 20th. so, at this point, if there is any nervousness from them, they certainly are not conveying it. in fact, they are rather gleeful that most of these court cases, the vast majority, are certainly going their way. >> yeah. jeff zeleny, appreciate it. thanks. still to come tonight. president trump's niece turned best-selling author, woman who knows the president better than most, is here to discuss what his endgame for all these lawsuits may be. using to delay the transition. and later, trump's top coronavirus adviser who tells the president exactly what he wants to hear is now backtracking. after he told the people of michigan to rise up against a democratic governor, who prosecutors say was already the target of a domestic kidnapping plot. you cannot make this stuff up. this guy has the president's ear. the state's top law enforcement officials will join us, ahead. before we talk about tax-smart investing, what's new?

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contributor. ben, we just heard from pamela brown, now, saying rudy giuliani is the one in charge. and donny jr. and the other one, eric trump, they are kind of a team saying take this thing to the end. it seems like the lawsuits are going nowhere. and the fact they failed to prove claims of fraud. where does that leave actual lawyers to argue in court? what does that lead -- leave them to do? >> well, it leaves an unraveling case is what it leaves. and the lawyers who have been leading the representations are some of the real warriors in republican battles. and it's interesting. they haven't been able to prove fraud and that was the predicate for most of the cases. couldn't prove it before the election. they had a 50,000-person poll-watcher army. couldn't prove it with them. and now, all of a sudden, we're seeing the fraud cases kind of melt away. and rudy giuliani is talking conspiracy theories about voting

machine. >> and just be clear. there is still -- there is still challenges happening in pennsylvania. the trump legal team withdrew their request to stop certification of the results, but revised their suit on cured ballots. can you explain what's going on there? >> sure. and -- and that's a major concession. and while there is still language in the amended complaint, in fact, the actual relief they asked for has nothing to do with all those challenged ballots. and it's down to a cure, which means that some counties in pennsylvania allowed voters who made mistakes on absentee ballots to cure them, by filling in the missing information. some counties did not do that. and the trump campaign has, what i think is a, sort of a weak, equal-protection argument that all voters should be treated the same. they're relying on bush versus gore, and i can tell you that bush versus gore was about something very different from this.

>> and the giuliani focus on the conspiracy theories, on machines, there's no evidence of that, correct? >> there is absolutely no evidence. plus, when -- before any vote is counted, and then after election day, there are test decks run on all these machines. so, you have a certain number of trump votes. certain number of biden votes. you run it through the machine with a test deck to be sure that the machine is actually counting it accurately. so, that takes place. plus, in the hand recount, you will see, you get a ballot, a paper trail, and that's what they're actually recounting on the machines. and you will be able to see proof of that, as well. >> ben ginsburg, as always, appreciate your expertise. thank you. >> thank you. >> if the court cases, to date, have gotten pretty much zero traction. what is the endgame for the president? joining me now, mary trump. president trump's niece. author of the best-selling book "too much and never enough." how my family created the

world's most dangerous man. mary, it's good to see you. thanks for being with us. today, president-elect biden said i am hopeful the president will be mildly more enlightened before we get to january 20th. you are a psychologist, as well as a family member. what -- what is going on? i mean, before we say that, i'm of the mind that it doesn't really matter. he is leaving. january 20th is the date. he can be upset. he can be angry. he can, you know, be stewing over his domineering father. all of that. but it doesn't matter. but, it's, nevertheless, may affect what we actually have to live through for the next, you know, 60-plus-whatever days. so what do you think is going on? >> well, i agree with you. it doesn't matter if he concedes. it doesn't matter if he acts like an adult, and allows for a smooth, peaceful transition. none of that matters, in the sense that he lost. and president-elect biden will be president, come january 20th. but, you're also right that it does matter, in the sense that

it delays the incoming administration's ability to deal with the multiple crises we're facing. it continues to undermine people's faith in the legitimacy of this election, and the legitimacy of the incoming administration. but, i would say that the only reason donald's behavior, his completely immature, unfounded, and disgraceful behavior matters is because it's republican leadership is allowing it to matter. and that's really where we should focus. >> yeah. i mean, the -- the coddling of him, the fear that still exists. you know, there had been talk, before the election, of, well, there'll be some sort of reckoning in the republican party once -- you know, if president trump is gone. doesn't seem like there -- there may be any reckoning. i mean, just seems like he's going to hang it over their

heads that maybe he'll run again. and, you know, ted cruz and marco rubio are going to be, you know, screaming into their pillow because, you know, their -- their presidential ambitions will be thwarted or frustrated. but do you think, is it just animus, on the president's part? is it just, you know, this is a -- a -- these are the cards of power he still holds, and he's going to hold onto them and figure out how to make the most of it? or is it just, as maggie haberman often says, he is just living in increments of time. and he's in this increment of time, and he doesn't have a plan for the next increment of time. he's just kind of watching the show and seeing what happens. >> it's actually kind of a combination of both things. i think, fundamentally, it is what maggie haberman says. donald lives in the moment. you know, his arc is did i just win? am i winning now? am i going to win, right after this? and that never changes. i mean, it's -- it's -- it is a -- it is an arc. it's an incredibly boring one. but it's consistent.

so, he is, for the first time in his life, grappling with a unique situation. he's never been in a situation, in which he's lost and cannot buy his way out of it. you know? so, that is true. however, what we need to keep in mind is, the animus you spoke of is being fueled by the fact that, although he lost decisively to president-elect biden, the republican party fared much better than expectations, in this election. so, he can't even blame them. >> yeah. >> so, there is a lot of rage and there is a lot of score settling going on, i would imagine. >> it's so interesting, though. you know, i mention the people now around the president are mostly kind of sycophants or scared of him or feed into what, you know, or true believers. whatever -- however you want to think of it. >> uh-huh. >> but it -- you know, the idea that they're -- you know, donny

jr. and eric trump are saying, yeah, let's keep going. obviously, i guess donny jr. has ambitions of taking over the gop leadership. sees this as his future. it doesn't seem like anyone is running the trump corporation. i don't know if there's not any work to be had. but they certainly seem to have a lot of time to be focused on -- on this issue. how do you think this plays out? i mean, do you think, at some point, he -- do you think he even attends the inauguration? do you think, at some point, he actually starts to release funds and allow there to be a transition? because, you know, people's lives are hanging in the balance on how effective -- the effectiveness of the vaccines and getting them circulated. and, you know, people in hospitals right now. >> yeah. as for my cousins, they're very well aware that they depend on -- that everything comes from their father. they depend on him, entirely. so, they're going to do whatever they need to do to keep themselves in his good graces, no matter how bad it is for

everybody else. so, you know, in my -- what i feel, at this point, is that we need to ignore these people. and we need to place all of the pressure on republican leadership, because as you have said, the longer this goes on, the more dangerous it is in terms of our national security. i mean, who knows what's going on behind the scenes. donald is a desperate man. he has access to all of our most guarded secrets. he's in a lot of debt. and, you know, there's also covid. we are in a situation where the leader of this country, the ostensible leader of this country, i should say, because he seemed to have abdicated all responsibility. is willfully ignoring the greatest health crisis we've faced in over a century. people are dying every day because donald refuses to admit he was wrong and made a mistake. he is refusing to change course. you know, we need to look at this in very blunt terms.

this is criminally-negligent homicide. and the longer the republicans let this go on, the longer donald is going to be pushing the envelope. and the more they need to be held accountable as well. >> mary trump, i appreciate your perspective. thank you. >> thank you, anderson. >> to mary's point about national security, we have breaking news just ahead. report from "the new york times" that president trump recently asked whether he had options to launch a strike against iran in the coming weeks. we're all putting things off, especially in these times. but some things are too serious to be ignored. if you still have symptoms of crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis even after trying other medications, it may be a sign of damaging inflammation, which left untreated, could get much worse. please make an appointment to see your gastroenterologist right away. or connect with them online. once you do, seeing the doctor is one less thing to worry about. need help finding a doctor? head to crohnsandcolitis.com ♪ lift it. press it. ♪ ♪ downward dog it.

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there's more breaking news, tonight. "the new york times" report president trump sought options last week in case he wants to

take action against iran in the coming weeks. one of the reporters on the byline is david sanger, who is also a national security analyst. david, it's good to see you. what, exactly, was president trump asking his senior advisers to provide him when it comes to iran? >> well, anderson, thanks for having me on. you know, last week, the international inspectors reported that iran had made some significant but modest progress in accumulating nuclear material. this would be the last report during president trump's presidency. and he heard about this report, and it was around then that he asked his advisers what options he might have, presumably, against the site that's the one major, nuclear site where iran produces nuclear material. now, he's had these options in front of him, both, before and after he pulled out of the iran

nuclear deal in 2018. so, obviously, in asking this question, this is his one, last moment to consider whether to take action. whether, it would be military or cyber. >> and you report after secretary of state pompeo and chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, general milley, described the potential risk of escalation to the president. they left the meeting believing a missile strike was toff the table. do you know why they believed that? >> well, it's hard to tell with this president because he frequently raises issues. it's hard, sometimes, to know how seriously he is taking them. then, sometimes, he seems to dismiss it. and then, as we've seen, at moments, he comes back at it. we've also saw a moment where he ordered a strike against iran, more than a year ago, and then pulled back from it. so, it's a little bit hard to tell whether this is really over. what is clear is that the iranians, now, have about 12

times the acceptable limit under the iran nuclear deal for nuclear fuel. that's enough for them to build about two weapons. but it would take them at least six months or so, anderson, in order to be able to build them. so, it's not like he's facing an imminent problem, right here. if he did take military action, i think it's fair to say it would make it much harder for joe biden to put this all back together, and to put the deal back together. >> yeah. david sanger, fascinating reporting. thank you. >> thank you. >> if the reporting's not alarming enough, sources are telling cnn's jake tapper that before he was fired by president trump, defense secretary mark esper wrote a memo that he and the entire chain of command in the region did not recommend any drawdro drawdown of american troops in afghanistan. in an op-ed in "the new york times," susan rice, president obama's national security adviser and former ambassador to the u.n. wrote by his refusal to engage in an orderly transition, quote, tragically, but not

surprisingly, mr. trump appears determined to take a wrecking ball to our democracy and national security on his inevitable way out the door. she joins me now. so, ambassador rice, what do you think the implications would be for incoming biden administration, as well as u.s. national security, if president trump does withdrawal troops from afghanistan, in the face of, you know, necessary conditions having not been met? >> well, anderson, we've been in the process of a phased and gradual drawdown. but, it's been tied to the taliban fulfilling the conditions that it committed to in the agreement reached in february. and tied to conditions on the ground, thus far. then, as you'll recall, some weeks ago, donald trump tweeted or said that he wanted all the troops out of afghanistan by christmas. and it sounds like, this memo that was reported, that former secretary esper wrote, was to

warn the president of the dangerous consequences of that approach. you know, the -- the incoming administration will inherit a range of -- of really significant, national security challenges. within afghanistan, the objective needs to be to end the forever wars, as they are called. but to do so, responsibly, and without putting at risk our allies and our collective sacrifice of many thousands of lives, over the last several years, as well as our relationship with the afghan government. so, this needs to be thoughtful and measured, and not done in a way that does even grave -- even more grave damage to our national security than this president has already done. >> i mean, how likely is it that, regardless of the length of timeline of a withdrawal, from afghanistan, is the resurgence of the taliban? because i mean, i remember, you know, starting to go to afghanistan in 2002.

and, you know, back then, everyone was saying, well, you know, the hugest priority is, you know, building up the afghan national army, the afghan police. you know, fast forward, ten years later, that's still what everyone is saying. and there's -- you know, obviously, there have been tremendous losses and, you know, hero heroic efforts by members of the army and police there. but -- but the taliban, you know, remains a huge force. >> well, it depends how it's done, anderson. and -- and, to what end are any residual presences there to serve? you know, we have an embassy operation that's quite substantial. it needs to be adequately defended. we have ongoing, counterterrorism concerns with respect to afghanistan. and a partnership with the afghan government, that still needs certain forms of support. so, an appropriately-sized residual u.s. presence would need to take those considerations into account. and without, you know, without

the benefit of information that i wouldn't have access to, outside of government, i can't speculate on what that right residual might look like. but i do believe that, you know, you don't go from where we are today, which is roughly 5,000, to zero. and you don't, certainly, go there within a matter of a few, short weeks. >> the idea of the president of the united states entertaining a strike on iran, with the few, you know, weeks that he has left in -- in office. how much of a concern is that to you? especially, because i mean, based on david sanger's reporting, he is saying it's not that there is an imminent, you know, something that is happening in that timeframe, before the next president will take -- will take over. >> well, let's be clear. there's no such thing as a quick and dirty strike on iran's nuclear capacity. that is the start of a very costly and sustained war. and the reason why, in the obama

administration, we pursued and achieved, successfully, a nuclear deal that cut off every one of iran's pathways, overt and covert, plutonium and uranium, to achieve the material necessary for a nuclear weapon is because we understood that a diplomatic resolution. a deal that was enforceable and verifiable was a far-better alternative than resorting to war, to prevent iran from acquiring nuclear capacity. this president pulled out of the iran nuclear deal, precipitously, has imposed, you know, crippling sanctions and that is not working. so, the objective is to find ways, short of catastrophic conflict, to prevent iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon. it's good to know, according to sanger's reporting, that -- that many of the president's closest advisers, from the secretary of state to the vice president to the chairman of the joint

chiefs, recommended strongly against the president taking military action and starting a much wider war in the region on his way out the door. and hopefully, the president has rightly concluded that that would would nothing to burnish his legacy. >> you were part of the advisory board. there's certainly a lot of talk about you being asked to serve as secretary of state. if president-elect biden were to ask you to serve as secretary of state or another role, can we assume you would agree? >> anderson, i'm not here to talk about -- >> i know. i knew you weren't going to answer. >> i will support him, as i have throughout, in any way i can and any way he deems most appropriate. and whether that's in public life or as a private citizen, i'll be happy to do so. from my vantage point, the good news is that we have joe biden

and kamala harris coming to the white house, thankfully. and that, so many of the issues that we have been talking about will now be dealt with responsibly and effectively. >> ambassador susan rice, appreciate it. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> scott atlas, the radiologist who is now president trump's chief-coronavirus adviser, had some harsh and surprising words for the governor of michigan who is fighting a covid surge in her state. what he said and the reaction from michigan's attorney general is next. mom, why do we always come here for the holidays? how did you find great-grandma's recipe? we're related to them? we're portuguese? i thought we were hungarian?

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breaking news on a story we covered at the top of the broadcast. in an effort to prove voter fraud in a battleground state has failed. it followed similar endings to similar cases brought by both the trump campaign and supporters, all of which seek to overturn the election in president trump's favor. michigan is also in the spotlight tonight because of something tweeted by a controversial coronavirus adviser that president trump depends on for opinions that fit his agenda often rather than scientific consensus about the pandemic. dr. scott atlas, a radiologist, called for the people of michigan to rise up against their governor, gretchen whitmer. he later backtracked. today president-elect joe biden responded. >> in addition to the folks who have already been leading, like the governor of michigan -- i

mean, you know, the idea that the president's now existing remaining adviser on covid is saying that they should resist. what's the hell's the matter with these guys? what is the matter with them? resist? >> according to federal and state authorities, governor whitmer was recently the target of a domestic terrorism kidnapping plot, and despite that fact, this is what dr. atlas tweeted sunday in response to a new order from the governor about what will be closed and open in the coming weeks. quote, the only way this stops is if people rise up. you get what you accept. a medical professional. today michigan announced more than 12,700 new covid cases since sunday. 55 deaths in the same period, bringing that total to more than 8,000. michigan attorney general dana nessel joins us now. madam attorney general, appreciate you being there. three hours after sending the tweet on sunday, dr. atlas, you know, as they say, walked it back, saying he was not talking at all about violence.

no, no, no. but instead about peaceful protest. do you buy that? >> well, firstly, no, i don't buy it. and i will say this about the trump administration. they're nothing if not predictable. you know, as you mentioned, we're in dire straits in the state of michigan, and it's projected if we don't dramatically change course, we're looking at about 1,000 deaths per week. so of course the state government was left to its own devices as we have been since the beginning of this since there's been no federal plan and no real federal assistance. and of course right after releasing these new public health orders, which are actually, you know, absolutely critical towards saving lives in our state and protecting the health, safety, and welfare of the people who live here, to have this kind of remark from a health official, you know, not only does it raise wrath against our state government and our governor in particular, it's

reckless and dangerous given the fact, of course, that we've had this plot against her to kidnap and execute her. and what it really does is it spurs noncompliance amongst our residents, and it makes this into a political issue once again. and covid never should have been a political issue to begin with. so what it's going to do is it's just going to result in more people dying in our state, and that is the last thing that a so-called public health adviser should want to see happen. >> yeah. dr. atlas, a radiologist, and radiologists do incredibly important work. we all rely on radiologists for readings of scans and things like that, but they spend a lot of time in dark little rooms, and i know maybe dr. atlas is excited to be outside and having the president listen to him and his name is now known. but it is impossible to read this guy's tweet and not be reminded of the president's own language throughout the course of the pandemic, calling for michiganders to liberate

michigan, praising people who showed up with, you know, automatic weapons, shouting at police officers and elected legislators in the michigan statehouse, threatening them, and a bunch of those people turned out to be the people who are now, you know, sitting in jail waiting on trial on charges of, you know, threatening to kidnap and perhaps kill the governor of michigan. the idea that someone who do this after what has already happened in michigan with threats against the governor, i guess it's not -- shouldn't be surprising given the tone and the tenor and the type of people the president has around him, but i just still find it shocking. >> it is -- it is shocking, and i echo the sentiments of our president-elect. i don't understand what's wrong with these people. but this is incredibly dangerous. and firstly, you know, not all of those people are sitting in prison. some of those defendants actually have been released on bond, and a lot of these domestic terrorists, you know, they're still out there potentially plotting and

planning. and then when you say this kind of thing, first of all, even if you are just asking for civil disobedience, what are we supposed to be liberating people from? from mask wearing? from being socially distant? it's incredibly reckless and dangerous, and this administration cannot leave soon enough for us here in the state of michigan and i would say all across the country. >> michigan attorney general dana nessel, i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thanks. up next, the mixed messages from republican senator james lankford on whether he thinks president-elect biden should be briefed on national security matters. what he's saying now when we continue. but how do we make sure the direction we're headed is forward? at fidelity, you'll get the planning and advice to prepare you for the future, without sacrificing the things that are important to you today. we'll help you plan for healthcare costs, taxes and any other uncertainties along the way. because with fidelity, you can feel confident

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republican senator james lankford is getting attention for his mixed message on whether president-elect joe biden should be getting briefed on national security matters. lankford is the chair of a subcommittee that oversees the gsa, the