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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  November 18, 2020 5:00pm-6:00pm PST

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matter at emanuel ame church when nine lives were taken when a young man who is trying to start a race war? do those nine lives matter? i think they do tch. that's all black lives matter is all maabout. thank you for joining us, "ac 360" starts now. we start this hour of 350,000 people of the united states is now dead of the coronavirus. we crossed that horrible threshold. on tuesday, the u.s. reported more than 1700 dead, the highest reported deaths in a single day since may. i want to show you our grim history of loss, 50,000 dead by april and and 150,000 by july and 200,000 back in september. a quarter of a million now dead. public health officials can not
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speak with the in coming president of the united states, president-elect, joe biden. the only reason they can't speak because of the current president's baseless attempts to prove voter fraud and maybe fear of what life is like of a one-term president will be like outside the white house. does not matter what he thinks or feels. it is what he's doing and he's harming this country and the transition to power. moments ago, "usa today" released an interview with dr. fauci. president trump has not said anything. he had nothing on his schedule today, again, nothing. imagine most of you had a lot oen your schedules today while the president of the united states did not.
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he spent a good deal of time rage tweeting again. this is the 11th day he has no had anything on his schedule. it is not to say he's not doing anything. he's finding time to fire people who he does not like. first, mark esper and last night chris krebs who he fired. krebs worked in security, he would know if the election is secured, it was his job. what he said did not fit the losing president's narrative so mr. krebs was fired. a few disagreed but others prefer to defend the president's rights to fire krebs, of course, he does have that right. mitch mcconnell ignored reporters' questions and walked on by. they're mostly silent, too.
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there will be more firing and more tweets and more outrages to come. the president has 63 days left and he has no shame and a lot of time on his hands. we have breaking news with jeff zeleny who's following joe biden in wilmington, delawardelaware, have new reporting people inside the trump administration actually is reaching out to the biden's team. what have you learned? >> reporter: we are learning a handful of trump officials and appointees who have left the government have indeed taken upon themselves to reach out to the biden's transition team. i am learning this alisteniong evan perez. they are beginning to in some small ways extend and open their door to biden's transition officials. not in any big way sharing classified information appropriate but making the bigger point. they know president trump is not going to serve a second term and
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they are putting country over partisan interests here and beginning to reach out to biden's officials to share some small pieces of government business about what they should do to keep the lights on and continue the continuity of the government. this is just again a handful of examples. it is clear that we talked to the one trump's official who says look, i didn't vote for joe biden but he believes it is necessary to keep things going here. it is extraordinary it is so small in nature but in these days it is something. >> i am sorry, are these people who are currently serving in the administration or these are people who did serve and now are out? >> it is a mix, anderson. some are currently serving at this administration. it is no one in the direct inner circle of the president, no one in the west wing. people who are operating the u.s. government seeing they need
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to have a transition of power and somehow worked in previous administration knows how this goes. it is a mix of people who are currently serving and who have recently left to trump's political appointees. not fans of joe biden but they know he won the election. this is normal. this is how transitions should go. >> what's the biden's team is saying about this? >> we talked to a variety of biden's advisers who welcome the cooperation, this is not replacing from what's happening. that's the gsa giving funding, opening the doors for information particularly on covid-19 and vaccines and data, that's what they want. yes, they are happy to have these overtures but it does not replace in their view of what should be happening from the gsa and simply being blocked from that day after day, almost coming up on two weeks.
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>> jeff sellzeleny. >> our ben ginsbuerg and gloria berges. look at what the president is doing and is legal removing people is there a tragestrategy? >> i don't see any strategies. i just think real grievance of display. this is throwing as much against the wall to see if they can delay some certifications of the votes in hopes of somehow they're going to have state legislatures change the slate of the electors.
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it is so far-fetch. what's going on is the president of the united states is acting like addict ta dictator trying the election that he lost. both in the electoral college and the national popular vote. he's aggressively acting against the will of the american people. >> gloria, the facts are clear, joe biden won the election, at this point he's leading president trump 6 million votes and you have kevin mccarthy saying 70% of republicans think biden won because he cheated. how much blame do president trump's allies, the president that's leading that chart? >> sure, the president is leading and they're following. as david was saying. this is the president's goal all along. he wants to convince the american public and he's certainly convinced 70% of republicans and the polls show it that this election was rigged
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otherwise he could not possibly have lost and he'll take that and do with it what he can. he's going to try and convince electors if that does not work, he'll use it for whatever careers he has next, monetize that or run for election again in 2024. the bigger problem here is you have a sitting president of the united states who is promoting something that is truly anti-democrat i c anti-democr anti-democratic which is to say that your votes don't count. if the president has to de legitiml delegitimize the process and to say the election is rigged.
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>> legally, where are they now in their legal strategy which is now being led by, you know, rudy giuliani of all folks. >> well, this is the beginning o f the end of their strategies. there is nothing that's been done that's going to holdup the certification dates in any of the states. if there are actually counting on that, so far they offered no proofs that's going to make the state do that, the michigan example last night and the wisconsin recount that's going to get done on time. it is a pretty easy to do process. georgia completed its recount. the certification dates, all completed by december 1st, are going to be here in the next couple of weeks and after that. he's got no second act. the problem with what he's doing now is you know he considers
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himself a master brander but everything that the legal strategy led him to is loss after loss. i have been apart of campaigns that have lost recounts and thought they were jiffed. the revenge order coming back does not work. people are tired of this. >> that's interesting. you don't think the revenge motive which may be very much alive within the president four years from now. you don't think that translates to voters feeling he was gypped and therefore wanting revenge. >> i don't think as all. when this process is done and people of his most supporters get a little bit weary of it.
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a candidacy, i got ripped off four years ago and i should be president now historically does not work. you can argue that donald trump is a transformational and different figure but not when it comes to something this fundamental where he put no points on the board and no evidence on the record to support what he's doing. >> he may never test that theory. he may hold open of the anthropologist possible of a run for two years, keep his cloud in the party but never test ben's theory of voters waiting on that prospect. >> and crushing the homes and dreams and ambitions and secret wis wishes of numerous republicans who are serving. >> well, exactly. that could be damaging for republicans. >> sure. here is the thing, the
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republicans most of them except for a handful are going along with this, anderson. the reason they are doing it because they believe donald trump has a tremendous amount of power. he got over a 71 million votes and power is what they are about. it is not about courage. it is not about doing the right thing. it is not about saying this is ridiculous out loud? they kind of elbow and said hi to kamala harris when she went on the hill, wink-wink. they're helping, aiding and abetting the president in this process. >> it is like they're talking somebody holding hostage. they're trying to figure out a way to get him out without shooting the hostage. >> the inflection point comes when the states certify the results. that's when mitch mcconnell says he gets the chance to get to that point. >> ben, now we saw what happened in detroit yesterday with two
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republicans canvassers they're called, not moving to certify and it is going to go up the food chain but is that a -- maybe rudy giuliani's strategy now confusion and doubt that they can start to i guess canvasser -- is that an actual strategy that can work? >> it worked for a couple of hours last night. the trump campaign may have sent out happy dance and tweets but it got reversed and they looked sillier for the tweets that they did. michigan among the states still at play has a unique system of canvassers where you have two democrats and two republicans. this michigan in the sense of who actually certifies the election is their best shot.
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>> um, david, you know the endless question is what happens to the republican party, assuming donald trump has a, you know, tv network or a podcast or whatever it is out of mar-a-lago and he's on holding big rallies or maybe he pays and sells t-shirts ads and has a big book -- has a big megaphone, is there any kind of reckoning in the republican party? >> i don't know, we have been looking for reckoning in the trump's era and it did not happen. i have never covered a politician having a strong a bond with his supporters as donald trump does with his. i think just kevin mccarthy and other republican leaders are keenly aware of that. i think donald trump is going to be a force as an ex-president inside the republican party for
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some time to come. the idea on january 20th when he leaves, somehow the party can reconstitute itself instantly into a post trump's era. i don't suspect that's where the party is going. i think that's going to grapple with donald trump as a looming figure as the next president. >> thank you so much, appreciate it. >> mowhy republicans are giving the president on any coverage. van jones on that. a quarter of a million lives lost in this country with the battle against coronavirus. what does the future hold as cases continue to skyrocket this winter? e too serious to be igno. if you still have symptoms of crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis even after trying other medications, it may be a sign of damaging inflammation, which left untreated, could get much worse. please make an appointment to see your gastroenterologist right away. or connect with them online.
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need help finding a doctor? okay, give it a try. between wisdom and curiosity, there's a bridge. between ideas and inspiration, trauma and treatment. gained a couple of more pounds. that's good for the babies. between the moments that make us who we are, and keeping them safe, private and secure, there's webex. ♪ ♪ beautiful. five blades and a pivotingglide flexball designed to get virtually every hair on the first stroke, while washing away dirt and oil. so you're ready for the day with a clean shave and a clean face. ♪ i sh♪ rakuten ten. ♪ all the perfect gifts right from my phone. ♪
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rakuten ♪ am i the smartest shopper ever known? ♪ ♪ rakuten! a handful of current trump's officials left have quietly reaching out to joe biden's team. many republicans are giving the president cover for his action. the times and mccarthy discussing what role president trump will play in the coming years.
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kevin mccarthy responded, if you had 07% of republicans who thought he tweeted, he's going to have a hard time. joining now from van jones, cnn political commentators. mike, at a certain point assuming the course case goes through and as it is happening as the president leaves, don't republicans and the senate in the house have to acknowledge it, a lot of republicans don't believe he's legitimate and not say, you know, loud and clear joe biden was elected fair and square. >> well, look, this is the polarize nature of our politics that we went through two years of democrats saying donald trump was not legitimate and russians elected him and having people of the chairman of the house intelligence committee who gets
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intelligence briefings who say i have certified evidence that he committed collusions only to find out it is not true. this is the year of politics is ushering. one side is going to treat the president legitimately and that's going to happen again if somebody else wins. >> i can understand that the trump's team had contacts with russians and flynn and people actually sent to prison. just because people have suspicions if there is nothing there and the court does not show it is not. >> the court will determine much quicker and faster than the mueller investigation. we'll know in a few weeks that this election is over and these votes have been counted and whatever challenges will have
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gone through the proper process and we'll have an answer. unlike, the mueller investigation was dragged oen for two years and millions of democrats until these days even though donald trump got 70 million votes, people who still believe russia elected him. >> the states trump won are not in question as senator graham says. what do you see the end game for republicans here? >> why are they acting like this? if you are a democratic looking at this is bewildering. they're playing two games at the same time. there is a legal game they are playing. if they can tie this up in court and create enough doubt then they are hoping the states just won't certify the election, there will be enough confusion and chaos and if the states don't certify the election, it goes to the house of
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representatives where donald trump has a good chance being named president of the united states. the constitution in our laws, if it whines up in the white house, it is states' pick and frankly there are more red states than blue. enough garbage in everybody's face that maybe these elections don't get certified that you can steal it in the house then there is a political game he's playing to keep the republicans based outraged and consolidated around grievance of not respect or support. they're playing two despicable game at the same time. the damage is you got these termites eating into the fate of the people in the system. you don't know you are playing that game too long until the floors fall under you as a country. >> mike, the strategy from rudy
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giuliani leading the legal team, i am not sure how many republican senators want to get on that train, the strategy seems so in doubt as van says having the election decided and legislatures. republicans are saying they won't participate in that. are you worried at all about damages he's going to do in the future? >> no, i think it is important to follow up to what van says so people don't hear that and get a little too concerned. that may be a legal strategy, you know, legal experts including when you know that's just on that says it is not going to work. i don't think anyone should have fear that strategy will come in in into frugs. i think donald trump will file for reelection in february and trying to campaign the committee. he's talking to the base of the republican party that he's going to have a power within the republican party's base. they're the ones that gave him
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this power. republicans supporting the president and his actions is because their grass root activists at home expects him to doit. he do it. >> do you think he'll actually run though? options are open but do you actually think he would run four years from now? >> i don't know. i think he wants to make that decision and have a lot of control and say over it. he's put himself in a position to be able to do that. >> van, the idea of donald trump hanging over the head of republicans on the senate who have their own presidential ambitio ambitions, it can do endless, there is a lot of democrats in america who are sick of donald trump, i am sure you know the next two years of him hanging over their heads, there is nogog
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to be a lot of republican senators who want to be president who wish he would go away. >> well, they may wish it right now. we have a challenge in this country that we have never faced before. earlier discussion of democrats not accepting the outcome of the 2016 election. hillary clinton did. she didn't like it and frustrated and thought she was untreated fairly. she conceded. you didn't have a former president or presidential nominee stocking around the country trying to delegitimate an election they lost. this never happened before. it does create a situation where the republican party have not been able to cough up this fur ball. they could not get themselves expel what has been obviously even now some what got unworthy of the office of another position. >> van jones, mike shields, appreciate it. more on the milestone that no
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one wants to read, coronavirus deaths growing here in the united states. alex azar raising more questions of how serious the trump administration is taking this crisis when we continue. no uh uh, no way come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card. n-n-n-no-no vicks vapopatch. easy to wear with soothing vicks vapors for her, for you, for the whole family. trusted soothing vapors, from vicks
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a quarter of a million deaths of coronavirus. president trump continues to ham per the response of the pandemic. alex azar says his department won't work with joe biden's team until the general service administration makes a
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determination that biden is the president-elect. >> we made it clear that when gsa makes a determination that we'll ensure complete cooperative professional transitions and planning. but, we follow the guidance. we are about getting vaccines and therapeutics and getting the clinical trials down. that's where our focus is as we go forward with our efforts. >> saving lives. that's where his focus is, getting vaccines out. preside president-elect biden want to get vaccines out. dr. fauci told usa today he has not spoken to the biden's team but he would like to.
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sanjay gupta and dr. wenn. you are two people we spoken together countless times at the beginning of this pandemic. i want to get your reaction on this horrific milestone. a quarter of a million of people in the country have died now and the numbers are going up, sanjay. >> i mean and counting, right? this is a milestone but we blow by these milestones and it is really sad, anderson. it is disparaging. i did not think we would get to this number but here we are. so many of the deaths that we talk about are preventable. i know families watching this program and who lost their loveloved ones, they don't want to hear these deaths are preventable. as you look at it and comparing it to other countries around the
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world, we have the most deaths. i would never imagine that the best we could do in this country is to be the worst in the world and yet here we are. reflection i am curious to hear what lena says as well. prepare for the worse and hope for the best. i never thought we would get to this point of 250,000. it is also a reminder that there is so much that we can still do and lives can be saved through some of the measures we have been taulking about. >> dr. wenn, it took us ten months to get to a quarter of a million in this country which is horrific. to the latest projection, if it continues to go to the trend that we are now and people not continue to wear masks and at the level we are wearing masks now, according to i think chris
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murray's team 400,000 deaths on february 1st. it took ten months to get to a quarter of a million. we can close to double that by march or april. i guess depending on the efficacy of the vaccine and the ability to get it distributed. we know it is going to take time to get it distributed. >> i think anderson what we have been saying all along and sanjay and i were having this conversation of a thousand deaths and thinking how can we prevent it from getting to 10,000. how can we prevent the next hundred thousand? it is not inevitable. there are things we can do to change the trajectory. we have seen in the absence of federal leadership that states and local officials and that individuals have really stepped up and made some profound sacrifices and made the right policy decisions by policymakers
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but individuals have done hard things. i would urge everyone that the end is actually insight for these two promising vaccines. we have to get through this winter. we can do it and put off celebrating thanksgiving in-person. let's have thanksgiving in july. we can rally together as a country and prevent it until we get to the next grim milestone. >> the idea that dr. fauci says he can't talk to the biden's transition team, they don't want to put him in a compromised position is so crazy. the idea that in the next several months, there could be hundreds thousands more deaths which is what is predicted, hundreds of thousands and 200,000 by march, the idea that people could die on the cusp of vaccines that could save people. the idea that you can have that
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much more deaths is like soldiers were killed hours before peace is declared. it is like during the age crisis. you have people in the early 90s dying just days before life-saving drugs, the cocktails came out. >> there are two minds and there are hopes on the horizon. that's worth celebrating, these optimism around these vaccines. it is coming and i don't need to do anything and in the meantime i can wait it out or are you going to be somebody like dr. wen is saying are you going to lean in and say hey, we can save hundred thousand lives and the vaccine comes and it will make a significance difference. who are you going to be at this point? are you going to rise to the
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occasion or not? >> dr. wen, you wrote an op-ed for the washington post today that we should stop talking about a national lockdown because it is a distraction. wear masks or you know, i don't want a lockdown. it is not a binary choice. >> that's right, there has been this confusing message that president trump perpetuated this whole time about either you do nothing or you stay in a basement and don't get out when we know that's just a false choice. there are so much that we can do like wearing masks and targeting these high-risk settings. by talking about a lock-down, it is distracting us from doing these practical measures. a national lockdown is not going to happen. we have governors have not implemented masks mandate.
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49% of the people only say they're going to abide by another stay-at-home order if one comes along. let's talk about practical things that we can do to shaave lives. >> dr. when and sanjay gupta. thank you so much. >> we'll have the state's recount of georgia. the question is could the get out the vote effort led by stacey abrams among black women pay huge dividends for democrats? skip to cold relief fast with alka seltzer plus severe powerfast fizz. dissolves quickly. instantly ready to start working. ♪ oh, what a relief it is! so fast!
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georgia republican secretary of state believes biden will be president. voter turn out for democrats they believe they have an edge led by gubernatorial candidate stacey abrams who lost for governor for 2018. >> reporter: in atlanta, the heart of democrats flipped georgia blue. >> we can do it again.
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i think we can do it again. we have to fight. i know the republicans are mad as hell but at the same time it is a new day. >> reporter: she did not expect this just two years ago. >> it was disrespectful. it was absolutely disrespectful. >> reporter: gary like so many other black voters were angry of what happened to gubernatorial candidate stacey abrams. >> how did it affect you? >> i was pissed. democrats lost the votes by 55,000 votes. >> are you going to go back out and vote january 5th? >> reporter: abrams' loss set a wildfire under a movement she helped build for years. democrats jon ossoff ais runnin
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against david perdue. >> we want to make sure you are registered to vote. >> are you planning for voting for the run off election? >> reporter: this is georgia's stand up. in the run-up to november. others have worked with abrams hit the pavement hard, registering voters and motivating black turn out. helping to flip the state for the first time in two decades. >> i was surprised that it took so long but i was not surprise that it will happen. i won't be surprised of what happened in january. >> reporter: debra scott have been in this fight for 20 years. >> it is black women leading the chart. >> black women leading organizations and organizing and canvassing and phone banking and
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organizing youths and organizing churches and organizing in every pocket of georgia. >> print your name and sign it there. >> reporter: at the senior center, every worker is helping to sign out this ballot absentee is black women. >> it is women that's driving this. >> reporter: do you think black women are the ones who flip the state of georgia? >> we are the highest demographics in turnout. i would say yes. >> all the optimism democrats are voicing in races. skbroini joining me now is keisha lanc lance-bottoms. black women have shown up for the democratic party for as long
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as they have the vote and it is extraordinary what black women have done in this most recent election. do you think there is going to be the same turnout for this run off? >> that's the important part and you are absolutely right. even going back to the women's suffrage march, women incorporated who did not have the right to vote at that time marched alongside women for the right to vote. it is so important that we do not just rely on african-american women, we are a reliable part of the democratic party. that's why towards the end of the campaign, joe biden and kamala harris ran an ad with mayors, women mayors speaking to men who run cities to talk about how important it is for men to also show up to vote. it is going to take everyone. this is not going to be easy.
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this vote with joe biden just a few weeks ago was a very, very slim margin so people see that it can happen and georgia can remain blue. we can't stay home and rely on one demographic to make it happen. >> how do you think the president is claiming voter fraud and it is baseless, do you think rile up his base to get them out? some republicans thought it may suppress republican turnout because they think things are rigged and why go through this? do you think it gaanger democra enough that it brings them up. how do you think it plays electorally? >> this has been a fascinating year especially if you watch foll politics to see republican candidates to turn on republican
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secretary of state. >> he'll eat his own children i am sure if he found it prudent. he's now picking a fight with brian kemp, the governor who he was closely allied with. and so it is my hope that even if people did not vote for joe biden or kamala harris that they'll be so disappointed and disgusted by this behavior. as you look at the lack of transition that's happening and our covid numbers that are rising in the states and across the country. there are so many reasons not to be supportive of donald trump at this point and any candidates who is are align with him. it is my hope that when people go back to if polls on january 5th, they'll remember that. in georgia, joe biden got a nice portion of republicans leaning votes in the states and many
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independent swing voters voted for joe biden and >> you know, the anger and disappointment over stacey abrams losing governor in 2018 helped fuel turnout in 2020. do you have a sense of what more needs to happen on the grounds now in between now and the runoff? >> i think a lot of things need to happen. people who didn't show up need to show up and vote. we've got to remind people why this is important. so many people think that the work was done when they went to vote in november. maybe people don't even realize there is a runoff. many people don't understand the significance and importance of having the senate to support joe biden and kamala harris. so we've got to educate people. we've got to turn people out to vote and we have to remind them that while this is a national conversation and all eyes are on georgia, which is really
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important and exciting, at the end of the day, the people of this state have the right to vote and to make a difference in this election. so we got to find them in every nook and cranny, and we've just got to remind people of what happened with president obama when he didn't have the senate and how so much good work was stalled. like i say, it's going to be education. it's going to be turnout. but it's going to be a lot of work through january. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> i want to check in with chris, see what he's working on. >> how are you doing? we're looking at the head and the heart tonight. it seems like rudy giuliani has exposed his strategy. i honestly don't believe they think they're going to win in court. i honestly believe that they are abusing the judiciary as a political ploy that they think they can raise enough questions, even if they're all getting thrown out in court. the latest is the third iteration of the same suit in pennsylvania that has been
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rejected. the latest iteration says 1.5 million ballots in seven different counties shouldn't have been counted. and the proof news articles that he attaches. i think the play is that we'll discuss on the snow with bernie sanders and others is to hope that state legislatures will guide away from the vote and pick electors that are faithless essentially to the state's vote. we're also going to talk about poverty in america. there is no such thing as food insecurity. it's called going hungry, and it's happening at more than any time since the great depression. we'll take you inside the problem and the inaction by our leaders. >> chris, see you in about eight minutes from now. still no formal recognition by the trump administration for transition. emily murphy, head of the gsa, remarkably holds the keys. she's not talking. do have some new reporting on what she might be thinking. that's next.
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between ideas and inspiration, trauma and treatment. gained a couple of more pounds. that's good for the babies. between the moments that make us who we are, and keeping them safe, private and secure, there's webex. ♪ ♪ beautiful.
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like it or not, emily murphy is fast becoming something of a household name. she's an attorney and trump appointee who leads the general services administration. she has refused to sign off on the transition paperwork from the outgoing trump administration to the new biden administration. christina holmes joins me now with some insight. what are you learning about why she hasn't signed off yet? >> first i want to note, we talked to friends, colleagues, former colleagues, all of whom, not all, but most i will say, of whom didn't actually agree with how she was handling this, but they did give us insight into why she was handling it the way she was. she's struggling. receiving death threats from democrats and republicans, but she holds steady because she believes she's following precedent. there is no precedent for what
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we're going through right now. but for the gsa, when they sign off on this election, that is really in modern history. and in modern history since they've had this task, there has only been one other time that a candidate has not conceded. that was in 2000 with al gore and george bush. that is the precedent we are told she is looking at as she makes this decision. we have spoken to multiple transition experts and heard from the gsa administrator who was in her position in 2000, a clinton employee of the administration who had to ascertain that george bush was the president. all of them say this was not the situation, biden has far beyond reached the threshold. this is how she is interpreting these rules. >> do we have any idea when she will ascertain that? who knows if there is going to
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be a concession coming from president trump. >> that's right. that's the big question. i have asked it to every person who has met her or talked to her. there simply doesn't seem to be an answer at this time. we know that last friday after that disastrous day in court for president trump that that moved the dial forward but not enough clearly. so that's what we're watching for. is it going to be the results of the georgia recount? is it going to be all these states certifying. but the longer time we wait, the shorter the transition and the more risks there are for the national security and coronavirus response. >> thank you very much. remi reminder, don't miss our digital news show. have in depth conversations you might not hear on a nightly program. catch it streaming live 6:00 p.m. eastern or watch it there on the cnn app at any time on demand. the news continues right now. i want to hand it over to chris. >> my man. thank you very much. i am chris cuomo and welcome to
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"prime time." covid is now killing at least one of us every minute in america. think of that. and now comes what? the holidays. every milisecond that the trumpers give life to these tantrumps, these conspiracy claims that only rudy giuliani would spew in open court, with every moment wasted on this farce, another one of us is gasping for their last breaths. we suffered this long enough. and what makes it worse is that you guys actually chose someone to do it better. and your choice, that person, joe biden, is being kept by the trumpers from doing what we need him to do. >> we should be further along. there is a whole lot of things that are just -- we just don't have available to us. unless it's made available soon, we'r