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and good evening. we start this hour with the breaking news that 250,000 people in the united states are now dead from the coronavirus. a quarter million americans. we cross that threshold, that horrible threshold, as deaths from the virus are rising rapidly. on tuesday, the u.s. reported more than 1,700 dead. the highest reported deaths in a single day since may. 50,000 dead by april. 100,000, by may. 150,000, by july. 200,000, back in september. a quarter of a million, now, dead. and public-health officials cannot speak with the incoming president to the united states, president-elect joe biden. the only reason they can't speak to him is because the current president's baseless attempts to prove voter fraud. and behind those baseless attempts and lies is, probably, anger and shame at losing. desperation to hold onto power. maybe, fear. what life as a one-term

president will be like, outside the white house. doesn't really matter what he thinks, what he feels. it's what he's doing. and he is harming this country and the transition to power. just moments ago, "usa today" released an interview with dr. anthony fauci who would, also, like to speak with the incoming administration. according to dr. fauci, that would be helpful. as of this moment, president trump has said nothing about the quarter million of americans dead. but, of course, he hasn't. by the way, he had nothing on his schedule, today, again. nothing. i imagine, most of you had a lot on your schedules, today. well, the president of the united states did not and he has spent a good deal of time rage tweeting, again. this is the 11th time. the 11th day he hasn't had anything on his schedule, since the election. 11 out of 15 days. it's not to say he's not doing anything. he's finding time to fire people, who he doesn't like. first, it was secretary of defense, mark esper.

last night, chris krebs for saying, quote, the november 3rd election was the most secure in american history. he would know if election -- if the election was secure, of course, it was his job. but what he said didn't fit the losing-president's narrative. so, he was fired. today, republican reaction to the firing was hardly surprising. a few disagreed. but others preferred to defend the president's right to fire krebs. and, of course, he does have that right. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell just ignored reporter questions. walked on by. they were mostly silent, too. when the president did the same to other people who stood up to him over the past four years. there will be more firings, no doubt. perhaps, more outrage to come. and the president has 63 days left and he has no shame and a lot of time on his hands. we have breaking news, now, with cnn's jeff zeleny who is following joe biden in wilmington, delaware. so, you have reporting tonight

on reaching out to the biden team. what have you learned? >> anderson, we are learning of a handful of trump officials and former appointees who have left the government who have, indeed, taken it upon themselves to reach out to the biden-transition team. i am learning this with my colleague, evan perez. they are beginning to, at least in some small ways, you know, extend an olive branch. open their door to biden-transition officials. not in any big ways. not sharing classified information or anything inappropriate. but simply, making the overture and making a bigger point. they know that president trump is not going to serve a second term. and they are putting country over partisan interest here and beginning to reach out to biden-transition officials, to share some just, you know, small pieces of -- of government business about what they should do to keep the lights on. and, you know, to continue the continuity of government. so these are just, again, a handful of examples. but it's clear, we talked to

one, trump official who said, look, i didn't vote for joe biden. but he believes that this is necessary to, you know, really keep things going here. so, it's extraordinary that it's, you know, so small in nature. but in these days, it's something. >> i'm sorry. so are these people who are currently serving in the administration? are these people who did serve and are now out? >> it's -- it's a mix, anderson. some are currently serving in this administration, at various levels of the government. it's no one who's in the direct, you know, inner circle of the president. no one who's in the west wing. but people who are operating the u.s. government, who are, you know, seeing that they need to have a transition of power. some have worked in previous administrations. they know how this goes. most people in washington know how this goes, except, of course, the man in the oval office. so, it's a mix of people who are currently serving and who have recently left, who are trump political appointees. and again, not necessarily fans of joe biden but they know he won the election.

again, this is normal. it's how transitions should go. >> and what's the biden team saying about this? >> we've talked to a variety of biden advisers who say, look, they welcome the cooperation. but this does not replace what should be happening. and that's the gsa giving funding. but more importantly, opening the doors to information. particularly, on covid-19. on the vaccines. on the data. that is what they want. so, yes, they are happy to have these overtures. but it does not replace, in their view, what should be happening from the gsa. and they're simply being blocked from that, day after day. almost, coming up on two weeks, anderson. >> jeff zeleny, appreciate it. thanks. perspective now from cnn political analyst gloria borger. david chalian. and ben ginsburg. so, david, president trump's never had a healthy relationship with the truth. looking what he's been doing since he lost the election. firing -- firing people. rage tweeting. all -- all the rest.

his legal maneuverings. i mean, is there an actual strategy here? >> i don't see a strategy. i think applying strategy to donald trump is always a little dangerous because i think that there's real just grievance on display. i -- i think this is a throwing as much as they can against the wall to see if they can delay some certifications of the votes. in hopes that, somehow, they're going to be able to have state legislatures change the slate of electors that vote in the electoral college. it is so farfetched, anderson. what is going on here is the sitting president of the united states of america acting like a dictator. trying to steal an election, before the eyes of americans. an election, where he lost and significantly so. both, in the electoral college and in the national-popular vote. he is aggressively acting against the will of the american people. >> gloria, i mean, the facts are

clear. president-elect biden won the election. at this point, he is leading president trump by almost 6 million votes, and counting, in the popular vote. you have minority leader, kevin mccarthy, saying that 70% of republicans think biden won because he cheated. how much blame do president trump and his republican allies. i mean, isn't it the president who is leading that charge? >> sure, the president is leading and they're following. and, you know, as david was saying, this is the president's goal, all along. he wants to convince the american public, and he certainly convinced 70% of republicans, as mccarthy says and the polls show it, that this election was rigged because, otherwise, he could not possibly have lost. and then, he will take that and do with it what he can. he's going to try and convince electors. if that doesn't work, he's going to use it for whatever career he has next, to monetize that. or to run for election, again, in 2024. but, the bigger problem here is

that, you have a sitting president of the united states who is promoting something that is truly anti-democratic. which is to say that, your vote doesn't count. no matter what you voted, you can't depend on it. and that is antithetical to everything we know about the democratic process, and if the president has to delegitimize the democratic process so he can say that the election was rigged, he's certainly willing to do that, as we're seeing. >> so, ben, let me ask you. just on the idea of a strategy, i mean, you know, maggie haberman says the president's just kind of living in -- in increments of time. and wanting to win those increments of time. and then, he's, suddenly, in the next increment of time. just legally, where are they now in their -- in the legal strategy which is, i guess, now being led by, you know, rudy giuliani, of all folks. >> well, this is really the beginning of the end of their strategy. there's nothing that's been done that is actually going to hold

up the certification dates in any of the states. so that, if they're actually counting on that, so far, they've -- they've offered no proof that is going to make a state do that. the michigan example, last night. the wisconsin recount is going to get done on time. it's -- it's a pretty-easy-to-do process. georgia has completed its recount. so, the certification dates, all of which are completed by december 1st, are going to be here in the next couple of weeks. and after that, he's got no second act. and the problem with what he's doing now is, you know, he -- he considers himself a master brander. but everything that the legal strategy has led him to is loss after loss after loss. and i've been a part of campaigns that have lost recounts, and thought they were gipped. and the revenge motive, of candidates coming back

afterwards, doesn't work. people get tired of this and he will be remembered for losing all these challenges that are hurting the system. >> that's interesting. you don't think the revenge motive, which may be very much alive within the president, four years from now, you don't think that translates to -- to voters feeling he was gipped and, therefore, wanting revenge? >> i don't wan, at all, because think that when this process is done and he has lost in this process. people -- even his most devout supporters get a little bit weary of it all. and a candidacy based on, i got ripped off four years ago, so i should be president now, has just not worked, historically, in american elections. and you can argue that donald trump is a transformational and different figure, but not when it comes to something this fundamental, where he's put no points on the board, no evidence

in the record, to support what he's doing. >> anderson, he may -- sorry -- he may never test that theory, right? because, what he may do is just hold open, the possibility of a run again in 2024. for two years, freeze the field. keep his clout in the party. but actually, never have to test ben's theory about what voters would weigh in, on that prospect. >> right. and thereby, crush the hopes and dreams and ambitions of numerous republicans who are now serving. >> to say nothing of a legislative agenda that would help the republican party. >> exactly. that could be very damaging for the republicans, gloria. >> sure. but, here's the thing. he -- he -- the republicans. most of them, except for a handful, are willingly going along with this, anderson. and the reason they're doing it is because they believe that donald trump has a tremendous amount of power. he got over 71 million votes, and power is what they're about. it's not about courage. it's' not about doing the right

thing. it's not about saying this is ridiculous, out loud. you know, they -- they kind of elbowed and said hi to, you know, kamala harris when she went on to the hill, wink, wink. but they're helping. they are aiding and abetting the president in this process. so -- >> they're holding somebody hostage. i mean, they're trying to like figure out a way to get him out without, you know, shooting the -- shooting the hostage. >> but, anderson, the inflexion point comes when the states certify the results. that's when mitch mcconnell says he gets the chance to get to that point. >> but, ben, let me ask you about that because we saw what happened in detroit yesterday. with two republican, i guess, canvassers they're called. you know, not moving to certify. it's going to go up the food chain. but can -- i mean, is that a -- it seems like that's kind of, maybe, rudy giuliani's strategy now. you know, try to sow enough confusion and doubt that they

can start to whittle away at some of these republican, you know, i guess, what, canvassers? is that an actual strategy that could work? >> well, it may be an actual strategy but it won't work. i mean, let's remember, it worked for all of a couple of hours last night. the trump campaign may have sent out happy-dance tweets. but it got reversed and they looked even sillier for the -- for the tweets that they did. michigan, among the states still at play, has a unique system of canvassers. where you have two democrats and two republicans. so, this michigan, in the sense of who actually certifies the election, is their best shot. >> you know, david, you know, the endless question, of course, is what happens to the republican party, you know, assuming donald trump has a, you know, tv network or a podcast or whatever it is out of mar-a-lago. and he's, you know, holding big

rallies that maybe he pays and sells t-shirts at and, you know, has a big book. but has a big megaphone. is there any kind of reckoning, david chalian, in the republican party? >> i don't know. i mean, we -- we've been looking for a reckoning in the trump era, and it didn't happen in any way. and, anderson, i -- i have never covered a politician who has as strong a bond with his supporters, as donald trump does with his. and i think, just kevin mccarthy and other, republican leaders are keenly aware of that. i think donald trump is going to be a force, as an ex-president, inside the republican party for some time to come. and i think the idea that, on january 20th, when he leaves that, somehow, the party can reconstitute itself, instantly, into a post-trump era. i don't -- i don't suspect that that's where the party is going. i think it's going to be grappling with donald trump as a looming figure, as an ex-president. >> yeah. david chalian, ben ginsburg,

gloria borger. thank you so much. appreciate it. more on the president's attempts and why the republicans are giving him cover. van jones on that. also, what a quarter million lives lost in this country means right now means against the battle against coronavirus. we're all finding ways to keep moving.

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administration officials, as well as some political appointees who left in recent months, have quietly started to reach out to members of joe biden's transition team. may be a sign president trump's refusal to concede the election. still, many electoral republicans giving the president cover for his actions, when possible. the interview we mentioned earlier from "the new york times." "the times" said mccarthy discussing what role president trump would play in the coming years. kevin mccarthy responded, it depends how it turns out. if you have 70% of republicans who thought he cheated, he's still going to have a hard time. joining me now, van jones, former special adviser to president obama. mike shields. both, cnn political commentators. mike, at a certain point, as has

been happening, the president continues to lose and the president leaves. i mean, at some point, don't republicans in the senate and the house have to at least acknowledge -- or do you think they will just continue saying, well, you know, a lot of republicans don't believe he is legitimate, and not -- not say, you know, loud and clear, you know, joe biden was elected, fair and square? >> well, look. we -- this is the polarized nature of our politics, and we went through two years of democrats saying that donald trump wasn't legitimate. and that russians elected him. and having people like the chairman of the house-intelligence committee, who gets intelligence briefings, saying i have certifiable evidence that he committed collusion. only to find out that it was all not true. and so, this is the era of politics that have been ushered in. which is that, one side is going to treat the president legitimately. and the other side isn't. and then, it's going to happen again when someone else wins, and that's sort of where we are. >> right. if the biden-transition team has

shady meetings with, you know, people carrying ballot boxes, i could understand that. you know, the trump team had, you know, contacts with russians and flynn, you know, people actually sent to prison. you know, just because people have suspicions, if there's no there there and the courts show that there's not. >> well, that will be quicker, right? >> don't senators have to stand up? >> the courts will determine this in a much quicker fashion than the mueller investigation. we'll know, within a few weeks. >> yeah, thankfully. >> that -- that this election is over and that these votes have been counted. and that, whatever challenges will have gone through the proper process. and we'll have an answer. unlike the mueller investigation, which dragged on for two years. and there are millions of democrats, to this day, even though donald trump just got 70 million votes, who still believe that russia elected him over hillary clinton. they still believe that. >> van, you don't see republicans questioning the races in states that they won.

senator lindsey graham even acknowledged that, today. saying the states trump won are, quote, not in question. what do you see as the endgame for republicans, here? >> why are they acting like this? if you're a democrat, you look at this, it's bewildering. they're actually playing two games, at the same time. there is a legal game that they are playing, if they can tie this up in court. if they can create enough doubt, then they are hoping that the states just won't certify the election. there'll be enough confusion, enough chaos, and if the states don't certify these elections, it goes to the house of representatives, where donald trump has a very good chance of being named president of the united states because the constitution and our law says, if it winds up in the house, it's the states, not the individual congress people, but the states pick. and there are, frankly, more red states than blue. so, there is a legal trick they're trying to pull here. throw enough garbage in everybody's face that maybe

these elections don't get certified. he can steal it in the house. then, there is a political game that he is playing, which is just to keep the republican base outraged and consolidated around grievance and the politics of grievance. so that they will not respect or support or help joe biden to govern. so they're playing two, i think, despicable games, at the same time. the damage that they're doing is that you're going to have these termites eating into the faith of ordinary people in our system, which is a dangerous game to play. you don't know when you played that game too long, until the floor falls out from under you, as a country. >> mike, the strategy, you know, rudy giuliani leading the legal team. i'm not sure how many republican senators really want to get on that train. but, you know, the strategy seems, of sowing doubt, as van said, trying to have the election decided in state legislatures, you know, republican leaders in four states biden won are saying they won't participate in that. are you worried, at all, about

damage this may do in the future? >> no and i think it's really important to follow up with what van said so that people don't get -- hear that and get a little too concerned. that may be a legal strategy. you know, legal experts, including one that was just on, say it's not going to work. and so, i don't think anyone should have any fear that that strategy would actually come to fruition. i think, the second point that van made was -- was actually, the long-term, more important one. which is, look, i think donald trump will probably file for re-election in february and create a campaign committee. and i think he is talking to the base of the republican party. he still is going to have a power within the republican party's base. they're the ones who gave him this power and they gave him this power. the reason why you have other, elected republicans, who are supporting the president, supporting some of these actions, is because their grassroots activists back home expect them to do it. and so, he has power within the republican party and he is going to keep exercising that, until he doesn't have it anymore. >> do you think he will actually run, though? i mean, i get the strategy.

it makes perfect sense. whether he plans to run or not, it keeps him in the center and options are open. but do you actually think he would run, four years from now? >> you know, i don't know. i think he wants to have a lot of control and a lot of say over it and he's put himself in a position to be able to do that. >> van, the idea of donald trump hanging over the head of republicans on the senate, who have their own presidential ambitions. you know, it -- it can do endless -- i mean, you think, you know, there is a lot of democrats in america who are sick of -- of donald trump. i'm sure, you know, by the next two years of him hanging over their heads. there's going to be a lot of republican senators who want to be president, who wish he would go away. >> well, they may wish that right now. we have a challenge in this country we've never faced before. you know, earlier, there was a discussion about democrats not accepting the outcome of the 2016 election. well, the reality is hillary

clinton did. she didn't like it. she was frustrated. she felt she hadn't been treated fair. but she conceded and accepted. you didn't have a former president or former presidential nominee stalking around the country, trying to dean election they lost. they just cannot get themselves to expel what has been obviously, even, you know, now. someone who's kind of unworthy of the office and of the position. >> van jones, mike shields, appreciate it. thank you. up next, more on the milestone that no one wants to reach. a quarter of a million coronavirus deaths, and growing, here in the united states. plus, comments from health and human services secretary, alex azar, today. raising more questions about how serious the trump administration is taking this crisis. when we continue. ♪ i see you looking (uh) ♪ i see you looking (na, na, na) ♪ ♪ i see you looking (uh)

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breaking news from the top of the program. quarter of a million deaths from coronavirus. that grim milestone being crossed here, in the united states, in just ten months. president trump continues to hamper the response to the pandemic. health and human services secretary, alex azar, said today his department won't work with joe biden's team, until the general services administration makes a determination that biden is the president-elect. >> we've made it very clear that when gsa makes a determination, we will ensure complete, cooperative, professional transitions and planning. but, that's -- we -- we follow the guidance. we're about getting vaccines and therapeutics invented and get the clinical-trial data and

saving lives here. that's -- that's where our focus is, as we go forward with our efforts. >> saving lives. that's where his focus is. getting vaccines out. president-elect biden is warning, getting the vaccine distributed could lag, as a result of his team not being able to work with the administration. the biden administration will be integral in actually getting the vaccine out. as we reported earlier, dr. anthony fauci told usa today he hasn't spoken to the biden team about the coronavirus response, but he would like to. want to talk about it with cnn's chief medical correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta. dr. leana wen, emergency room physician and former baltimore health commissioner. i just want to get both your reactions, tonight, on this horrific milestone. a quarter of a million people in this country have died, now. and the numbers are going up, sanjay. >> yeah.

i mean, and counting, right? i mean, this is a milestone. but we blow by these milestones and it's -- it's really sad, anderson. i mean, it's really dispiriting. i mean, no matter how you look at it. i didn't really think we would -- we would get to this number. but -- but -- but here we are. and so many of the deaths that we talk about were preventable. and i know those families who watch your program every night who have lost loved ones. they don't like to hear their loved one's death was preventable. but, you know, so many of these deaths were preventable. and if you look at the death rate in the united states, and you compare it to other countries around the world. i mean, we have the most deaths. we have the most deaths. i never imagined that the best we would be able to do in this country was to be the worst in the world. and yet, here we are. so, you know, i don't know. reflection. i'm curious to see what lena says as well. but i think as doctors, you always sort of have this mea

mentality, prepare for the worst, hope for the best. but i never really thought we'd get to this point of 250,000. but it's, also, a reminder what we can still do and how many lives can be saved through some of the measures we've been talking about. >> it took ten months to get to a quarter million dead in this country, which is horrific. according to the latest projections, if it continues to go on the trend that we are now and people continue to not wear masks at the level that they're not wear masks now. we could have, according to, i think, you know, chris murray's team, 400,000 deaths by, i think it was february 1st. so it took ten months to get to a quarter million. we could close to double that by -- by march or april. you know, i guess, depending on the efficacy of the vaccine and the ability to actually get it distributed. but we know it's going to take time to get it distributed.

>> yeah. i think, anderson, what we've been saying all along and sanjay and i were also having this conversation at a thousand deaths. and thinking how can we prevent from getting to 10,000? or when we crossed the 100,000 threshold, how can we prevent the next 100,000? every time, we said the future isn't preordained. it's not inevitable. there are things we can do to change the trajectory, just as there is now. we have seen, in the absence of federal leadership, that states and local officials and that individuals have really stepped up. and made some profound sacrifices. have made the right policy decisions by policymakers. but also, individuals have done some really hard things. and i would just urge everyone that the end is actually in sight with these two, promising vaccines. we just have to get through this winter. we can do it. we can put off celebrating thanksgiving, in person. let's have thanksgiving in july. we can do this. we've done it before. we can rally together, as a country. and prevent us from having this conversation when we get to the next, grim milestone.

>> yeah. sanjay, the idea that, you know, dr. fauci, the nation's top-infectious disease expert, says he hasn't -- you know, can't talk to the biden-transition team. they don't want to put him in a compromised position is so crazy. the idea that, in the next several months, there could be hundreds thousands more deaths, which is what is predicted. hundreds of thousands. more than -- you know, as many as -- as 150,000, 200,000 by march. >> yeah. >> the idea that people could die on the cusp of a vaccine that could save people. the idea that you could have that much more death. it's like, you know, soldiers who are killed, you know, hours before peace is declared. i mean, it -- it -- it -- you know, it's like during the aids crisis. when you had people in the early '90s, you know, dying just, you know, days before, you know, lifesaving drugs, the cocktail, came out. >> yeah.

i mean, that -- that -- that's the thing, anderson. there's, i guess, two minds, you know. you hear, as lena said, that there is hope on the horizon. i mean, that is worth celebrating what seems to be this warranted optimism around these vaccines. but are you going to be somebody who says, you know what, it's coming? i don't need to do anything. in the meantime, i can just wait it out. or are you going to be somebody like dr. wen was saying, that will lean in and say, hey, be part of a movement that could save 100,000 lives. and make a significant difference in the trajectory of this pandemic. who are you going to be? are you going to rise to the occasion, or not? >> dr. wen, you wrote an op-ed in "the post" today. and i think it's a really important point that you make because it allows people to make the argument, this binary choice between, well, you know, we are masks or, you know, you know, i don't want a lockdown. it's not a binary choice.

>> that's right. and there's been this confusing message that president trump actively perpetuated this whole time. about, either, you do nothing, or you stay in a basement and don't get out. when we know that, that is just a false choice because there's so much we can do, like wearing masks, like targeting these high-risk settings. and i think by talking about a lockdown, it really is distracting us from doing these practical measures. and frankly, a national lockdown, it's just not going to happen. we have governors that have not even implemented mask mandates. we're never going to get a national lockdown. also, 49% of people, only, say they are going to abide by another stay-at-home order if one comes along. and so, let's talk about the practical things that we can do to save lives. >> yeah. dr. wen, sanjay, thanks so much. appreciate your time, as always. more breaking news just ahead. georgia's secretary of state is certain who the winner will be once the state concludes its recount. next. could the get-out-the-vote

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more breaking, election news. georgia's republican secretary of state says he believes ple d president-elect biden will be the victor. with that declaration, two u.s. senate runoff races in early january only continue to accelerate in importance. one key for both parties, obviously, voter turnout.

for the democrats, they believe they have an edge in those efforts led by former gubernatorial candidate stacey abrams. cnn's kyung lah is in georgia for us, tonight. >> reporter: in atlanta, the heart of where democrats flipped georgia blue. >> elect people that vote for you, vote blue times two. >> reporter: gary helps get out the vote for january's crucial, senate runoff election. >> we can do it again. >> you think you can do it again. >> i think we can do it again. we're going to -- i think we got a fighting chance and i know the republicans are mad as hell. but at the same time, it's a new day. >> reporter: she did not expect this just two years ago. >> it was disrespectful. it was absolutely disrespectful. >> gary, like so many other black voters, were angry with what happened to then-gubernatorial candidate stacey abrams. >> did it discourage you when she lost in 2018?

how did it effect you? >> i was pissed. >> reporter: the democrat lost the race by 50,000 votes. one marred by allegations of voter suppression, mainly among black voters. >> are you going to out and vote january 5th? >> set a wildfire, under the grassroots movement she helped build for years, a movement that now turns to the two, senate runoff seats. >> senate p-- running against incumbent senators, david perdue, and kelly loeffler and the races that will determine control of the u.s. senate. >> we have two senate seats in the state. >> are you planning on voting for the runoff election? >> reporter: this is georgia stand up. one of several voting rights groups in the state. in the run-up to november, it and other grassroots groups that had worked with abrams hit the pavement hard. registering new voters. motivating black turnout. and helped flip georgia for the

democrats in the presidential race, for the first time in two decades. >> i was surprised it took so long. but, i wasn't surprised that it happened. and i won't be surprised if what happens in -- in january. >> reporter: deborah has been in this fight for nearly 20 years. >> we also have vote today. >> reporter: when it comes to georgia's voting rights, it's black women leading the charge. >> black women leading organizations and organizing and canvassing and phone banking and organizing youth and organizing churches and organizing in every pocket of georgia. >> reporter: at this senior center, every worker helping these residents fill out absentee ballot applications is a black woman. >> it's women that are really driving this ground game. >> so, do you think that black women are the ones who flipped the state of georgia? >> we are the highest demographic in turnout of any

other, besides white. so, i would say, yes. we do. >> that was kyung lah reporting. for all the optimism democrats are voicing about the races, recent races in georgia, not with much success in the party. joining me now, mayor keisha lance bottoms. black women have shown up for the democratic party for as long as -- as long as they have had the vote. and it is extraordinary, what black women have done in this, most recent election. do you think there is going to be the same kind of turnout for this runoff? >> so, that's going to be the important part, and you are absolutely right, anderson. even going back to the women's suffrage march. who didn't have the right to vote, at that time, marched alongside women for the right to

vote. and so, it's so important that we not just rely on african-american women. we are a reliable part of the democratic party. but that's why, towards the end of the campaign, joe biden and kamala harris ran an ad with mayors, women mayors, speaking to men who run cities. to talk about how important it is for men to, also, show up to vote. so, it's going to take everyone. this is not going to be easy. this vote with joe biden, just a few weeks ago, was -- it was a very, very slim margin. so, people see that it can happen. that georgia can remain blue. but we can't stay home and rely on one demographic to make that happen. >> how do you think what the president is claiming about voter fraud, all of it, you know, the idea of widespread voter fraud is baseless. but do you think it -- does it, you know, rile up his base to get them out? does it -- there are some

republicans who thought it might, you know, suppress republican turnout because they think, oh, things are rigged. why go through this? do you think it angers democrats enough that it brings them out? i mean, how do you think it plays, electorally? >> this has been a fascinating year. especially, if you watch politics. to even see the republican president turn on the republican secretary of state, whom he endorsed. and you -- >> he'll turn on anybody, if the situation warrants it, it seems. >> he -- he will eat his own children, i'm sure, if it -- if he found it prudent. but, he's now picking a fight with brian kemp. also, the governor, who he was closely allied with. and so, what -- it's my hope that, even if people did not vote for joe biden and kamala harris that, they will be so

disappointed and disgusted by this behavior. look at the transition, the lack of transition that's happening. you look at our covid numbers that are rising in the state and across the country. there's so many reasons not to be supportive of donald trump, at this point, and any candidates who are so it's my hope that when people go back to the polls on january 5th, they will remember that because in georgia joe biden got a nice portion of republican-leaning votes in this state and also many independent swing voters in this state went for joe biden, and it's our hope that will happen january 5th. >> as kyung lah reported, the anger and disappointment over stacey abrams' losing bid for governor in 2018 helped fuel turnout in 2020. i'm wondering do you have a sense of what more needs to happen on the ground now, in between now and the runoff? >> i think a lot of things need

to happen. people who didn't show up need to show up and vote. we've got to remind people why this is important. so many people think that the work was done when they went to vote in november. many people don't even realize that there is a runoff. many people don't understand the significance and importance of having the senate to support joe biden and kamala harris. so we've got to educate people. we've got to turn people out to vote. and we have to remind them that while this is a national conversation and all eyes are on georgia, which is really important and exciting, at the end of the day, the people of this state have the right to vote and to make a difference in this election. so we got to find them in every nook and cranny, and we've just got to remind people of what happened with president obama when he didn't have the senate and how so much good work was stalled. it's like i said. it's going to be education. it's going to be turnout. but it's going to be a lot of work through january.

>> mayor keisha lance bottoms, i appreciate your time, thank you. >> thank you. >> want to check in with chris and see what he's working on for cuo cuomo prime time. >> we're looking at the head and the heart tonight. it seems like rudy giuliani has exposed his strategy. i honestly don't believe they think they're going to win in court. i honestly believe they are abusing the judiciary as a political ploy, that they think they can raise enough questions even if they're all getting thrown out in court. the latest is the third iteration of the same suit in pennsylvania that has been rejected. the latest iteration says, 1.5 million ballots in seven different counties shouldn't have been counted. >> yeah. >> and the proof? news articles that he attaches. i think the play is that we'll discuss on the show with bernie sanders and michael smerconish and others is to just create enough political doubt to create pressure, hoping that state legislatures will guide away from the vote and pick electors that are faithless essentially to the state's vote. it's a long shot, but, boy, is it ugly. we're also going to talk about poverty in america.

there's no such thing as food insecurity. it's called going hungry, and it's happening more than at any time since the great depression. we'll take you inside the problem and the inaction by our leaders. >> all right, chris. see you in about eight minutes from now. as we've been discussing, another day in washington. still no formal recognition of any transition. emily murphy, head of the gsa, holds the keys. we do have some new reporting on what she might be thinking. that's next. >> tech: every customer has their own safelite story.

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like it or not, emily murphy is fast becoming something of a household name. she's an attorney and trump appointee who leads the general services administration. so far she has refused to sign off on the transition paperwork from the outgoing trump administration to the new biden administration. cnn's kristen holmes joins me now with some insight into what

some of her friends are saying about her and her job. what are you learning? >> reporter: first i want to note, we talked to friends, former colleagues, all of whom -- not all but most, i will say, of them didn't actually agree with how she was handling this, but they did give us some insight into why she was handling it the way she was. they said she's struggling, receiving death threats from both democrats and republicans, but she's holding steady because she believes she's following precedent. obviously as we know there is no precedent for what we're going through right now. however, for the gsa, the general services administration, when they sign off on this election, that is really in modern history. and in modern history, since they've had this task, there's only been one other time that a candidate has not conceded, and that was in 2000 with al gore and george bush. that is the precedent that we are told she is looking at as she makes this decision. now, again, another thing i want to point out here, we have spoken to multiple transition experts.

we have even heard from the gsa administrator, who was in her position in 2000, a clinton employee of the administration, who had to ascertain that george bush was the president. and all of them say that this is just simply not the same situation, that biden has far beyond reached the threshold to win this election. but, again, this is how she is interpreting these rules. >> and do we have any idea when she will ascertain the election? i mean are there any benchmarks that need to be hit in her mind because, you know, who knows if there's going to be a concession coming from president trump. >> reporter: well, that's right. that's the big question, and i have asked it to every single person who is talking to her, knows her, has ever met her on the street. and there simply doesn't neseemo be an answer at this time. we know that friday, the disastrous day in court for president trump, that moved the dial forward but not enough. is it going to be the result of the georgia recount? is it going to be all of these states certifying? but, again, as we know, the

longer time that we wait, the shorter the transition and the more risks for both national security and the coronavirus response. >> kristen holmes, thank you. don't miss full circle, our digital news show that digs into important topics, in depth conversations you might not hear on a nightly program. the news continues right now. i want to hand it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." i am chris cuomo. welcome to "prime time." listen to this. covid is now killing at least one of us every minute in america. think of that. and now comes what? the holidays. every mill i second that the trumpers give life to these tan trumps, these deranged conspiracy claims that only rudy giuliani would spew in open court, with every moment wasted on this farce, another one of us is gasping