now. what does that mean for her future in politics? i think it certainly is a pointed posture on her plot. >> thanks so much for being with us tonight. appreciate it. the news continues so let's hand it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." >> i am chris cuomo. welcome to prime time. joe biden, the president-elect was making plans to help those hungry people in the country figure out a relief plan with other top democrats but how can he get relief past the trump party which is delaying any help while they wait for what? for trump to finish trying to rig the election results. they literally won't act on testing, a push for a transition, a push for a deal for relief with more people waiting in line for food than we've seen since the great depression, how much worse will things get in 61 days if they allow this inaction to continue? you know, 61 case ago we were

under 200,000 dead. still a horrible number, now we're over 200,000. is that going to be another it is what it is for these people? don't allow it. don't allow your outrage to fatigue. we have to do better than we are right now. now, you can't say that for trump. he's going to do nothing about this virus, even though it is savaging our country and his own family, donald trump jr. now has covid. that makes two trump sons, trump's wife and himself, all taking il lvenlth with the virus that he remains determined to ignore. now, of course, we wish donald trump jr. well. i hope he stays asymptomatic and gets through it and doesn't give it to any of his kids. now, his father is allowing too many to fall ill through his inaction. it's almost as if he is afflicted by an additional malady, one that devoured his intellect and took his sense of reason prisoner, rendering him

incapable of grasping reality. exhibit a -- >> which i won, by the way, but you, you know, we'll find that out. almost 74 million votes. >> he's right on the last part, almost 74 million vote, the problem is somebody else was running and his behavior, his lies, his inaction, his lack of decency inspired the most people ever to come out in a presidential election, almost with the sole priority of getting rid of him. joe biden set the record in besting trump bigly, okay? we will have never seen as many votes as joe biden gets in the final tally. more than 6 million more than the only president and no irony that we've ever seen actually ignore a pandemic. the state of play, the key state of georgia has turned blue.

it just certified its election results, a function of a hand count audit. trump loses to biden by 12,000 plus votes. even the staunch trump loyalists who delayed fighting the pandemic himself in deference to trump, that republican governor had to admit it's over. >> state law now requires the "great big story's" office to formalize the certification. as governor i have a solemn responsibility to follow the law and that is what i will continue to do. >> we get it. you don't want to do it. you don't want to make anybody upset. if you had any choice you wouldn't do it. you have to do it. meanwhile, a man you look up, donald trump, continues to look for ways around the law, doesn't he? he's doing so in plain sight and his party says nothing. you saw another example of it today. i don't know why these lawmakers

from michigan agreed to a public meeting when they know we're waiting to see if they will help trump defy the will of people in their state of michigan. the legislators say, oh, no, we came to use the time to beg the president for covid relief. come on. you know why you were invited. you decided to come. now, after the meeting, they said, quote, we have not yet been made aware of any information that would change the outcome of the election in michigan and as legislative leaders we will follow the law and follow the normal process regarding michigan's electors just as we have said throughout this election. michigan's certification process should be a deliberate process free from threats and intimidation. in michigan trump is down by more than 150,000 votes. 154,000. that's a 2.8 percentage point margin. there is no precedent for any kind of recount there. now, what do they keep telling you? systemic blah, blah, blah.

everybody is in on it. okay. where do they focus? big cities, detroit, philadelphia, atlanta, you think it's a coincidence those are all cities with big african-american populations? you think it's a coincidence what they want to do is take the vote and disenfranchise those same people? come on. you know what this is about. they're going ugly to the end. now, one thing is for sure, nobody acting on this pandemic and the economic pain for another two months could put us in the biggest hole we have ever seen. is that where we're headed? let's discuss. dana bash, charlie dent, thank you both on a friday night. dana, your take on the latest state of play. we heard plot say from "the new york times" you're hearing about a republican here, republican there, starting to say he's got to admit, i don't really hear it. what are you hearing with your sources about where we are in terms of a nixonesque come to

jesus meeting where the heads of what used to be the republican party go to trump and say, enough? >> i don't think that's going to happen any time soon. i'm not hearing that. it's hard to imagine a mitch mcconnell or any of his immediate deputies or kevin mccarthy who used to serve with the esteemed gentleman we are on with, mr. dent. no. what i am hearing and heard again today is more of the rank and file, even in the senate, talking amongst themselves about trying to find a way out and when i say find a way out, the tone and the tenor in conversations that i'm having with republicans, it's different after what happened yesterday with the rudy giuliani press conference, with meddling in michigan and yesterday and today, as well, and, you know, the hope was that it would work itself out, that was a quote

from a republican senate source i've talked to and it was very clear to them yesterday that they are far from that so the question is what are they going to do and at this point, though, i don't know that it can convince them. getting on the right side of history finally and getting on the record that this is wrong, what the president is doing. >> they just have to say it. i mean, charlie, we awe saul it firsthand. rudy giuliani was the metaphor for the melting away of your party. we watched it in realtime. do you really believe that your party is just going to wait this out and then think that they'll have any kind of leverage going into this next period and then the midterms? >> well, look, chris, the election is over. everybody knows it. you know, there's no time left on the clock, the score is on the board. it's over. every republican with whom i have spoken knows it's over. why they don't want to say it publicly is a bit of a mystery,

maybe because of the georgia race, maybe it's because they're worried about trump unleashing the base against them but know the game is over and they'd be smart to admit it and acknowledge it right now. pennsylvania will certify on monday. it's going to happen. nothing is going to change. everybody knows it, so republicans are going in the midterms with the wind at their back unless, unless donald trump makes a lot of noise and screws things up for them. you usually want to make it about the party of the president. >> why would they have the wind at their back when any campaigner worth their salt will say they did nothing while people were starving in this country for months, no relief put up for even a vote by mcconnell while they waited for trump to get his feelings in effect? >> yeah, only for historical reasons just because the midterm election always benefits the party not of the president. that's always been the case with two exceptions i think in the

last 75 years, '98 and 2002. obviously what's happening right now is not helping republicans moving into the midterms but, hey, we're a long way off. >> true, true, true, true, dana, the optics were terrible for the michigan lawmakers today. they can say they went to beg for covid money. everybody knows that's not why they were invited. what are you hearing about how the meeting went? >> from the beginning the white house tried to spin the fact that the president wasn't trying to influence them. we don't know exactly what was said or not said on that notion inside the meeting but what we do know and most importantly is they came out saying that nothing is going to change. that the michigan results are the michigan results. and, you know, these republican lawmakers almost didn't have a choice, who flew in from michigan. they were put in such a box by the president that if they came out and said, you know what,

we'll fight, it would have put -- i talked to republicans in michigan about this, it would have put every republican who won, on the ballot, not just, you know, on the federal level, on the state level, i mean down ballot in trouble there and so, look, that was not going to happen but just the fact that the president put them in this situation and is continuing to put other republicans in this situation is one of the reasons why i'm hearing, you know, much more alarm but, again, to what end? they just don't think and congressman dent knows this. he was there. they just don't think they can have much of an influence on the president and can only backfire. doesn't mean they aren't enabling him. they are but they're in a box frankly that they created. >> right. but, charlie, you know the play. the play isn't to convince him of anything. it's just to clear your own record for what's going to be examined against you. we may have seen the only demonstration of where covid did

somebody a favor because those michigan lawmakers were supposed to be sitting with trump and rudy, you say but for covid money. you were supposed to be looking at rudy giuliani. the only reason he wasn't there was because, you know, god forbid it gets any worse but his son has been diagnosed with covid and rudy has to quarantine. we wish he and his family well, of course, but he was going to go to that meeting. charlie, you take that meeting even when you were on the state level. i know it's cool for the president to invite you there but in this atmosphere you get called to the white house and you take that meeting? >> well, i'll tell you what, i know that -- what my sources in the pennsylvania general assembly tell me the state senate majority leader now pro tem and speaker of the house will meet with the president, they've been invited and they are going to go. nothing is going to change because pennsylvania law and the constitution are very clear on this and the general assembly doesn't have the authority to produce an alternative set of

electors. by the way if this election is not -- the general assembly will never go along with that. they had a terrific night, they had a terrific election for the state house and the state senate. the only thing they care about more than that is themselves and won't do anything -- >> then why go? >> well, i suspect, you know, you're being invited to the white house by the president. i think it's a big deal for them. they're going to go down and get a nice lunch or dinner, they may be on the menu but they're going to go down and they'll hear the president out but i can assure you nothing is going to change. i think they're flattered that they've been invited. >> yeah, but the why matters. dana, can't you write the commercial now, you know, whatever the man or woman's name is, you show them walking into the white house, when our democracy needed leadership most. look at this cat walking in to the white house to meet with the

guy trying to steal the election. >> yeah, no question about it. the problem is what you talk about every night on this show. the problem is that that commercial is powerful and works in a universe where everybody agrees to the same set of facts, and as long as donald trump is a presence in american politics and much more importantly in the republican party and as long as he has willing partners spewing conspiracy theories, then that walking into the white house for that sector of the population hearing things that are just not true and believing them could help, which is really disturbing but it's just, you know, another example and point of where we are. >> charlie, last word. >> yeah, well these legislators are only going to get themselves in trouble if they defy the popular vote. that's what will han. if they do anything to not certify the election where biden

won there will be a political uproar like they've never dealt with so i guarantee you this is all going to blow over once these results are certified and the electors do their jobs in december. >> only one thing surprised me that trump didn't come out and trash rudy. he knows rudy killed him yesterday. he knows that rudy -- forget about -- you know you have a bad day when your face melting on television is the least of your problems. >> the only one out there but you know this, chris, he is -- he, rudy giuliani, is the only one out there willing to fight for the president and that's something when you're donald trump. especially when you know you're fighting a losing battle. >> he's all about optics and his guy was melting on tv literally blamed the entire universe then said the key phrase that killed him, we can prove it. they've been in court 30 times. they never proved anything. he had a judge looking at him the way i was the first time i stood up on a case 25 years ago,

it killed the president yesterday. it ended yesterday. >> yeah, well, you know what, rudy was saying that the vote in philadelphia was stolen, well, the philadelphia democrats were trying to steal the election, they did a really luis si job because biden underperformed hilla hillary. >> it would be the only conspiracy where the conspira r conspirators wanted to also take care of the other side. >> great job. >> we'll give you congress. even though we're felons we're still fair. what a world. what a world. >> gave them the general assembly and row offices. >> down ballot. we want to make it look good. >> that's what happens when you rely on a dictator from south america who's been dead for several year. >> the planning had to be messed up. the guy who figured it out has been dead for almost a decade. >> i'd be laughing if it weren't so damn sad. >> that's right. >> i have a little makeup

tonight. i don't want to mess it up. charlie, dana, god bless, be well. of all the states for trump to make a stink about, he's focused on michigan and it doesn't make sense because he's down so much. how much? what does it mean? what is in context? why is it so hapless for him to do what he's doing? we can show it statistically. the wizard of odds will take a look at michigan and why this makes no sense especially with detroit. i gave you the color play. but it still doesn't make any sense. harry will tell you why, next. sa with extra broccolini. my tuuuurrrrn! tonight...i'll be eating cheesy cauliflower pizza and yummy broccolini! (doorbell rings) thanks. (doorbell rings) thank you. ♪

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come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card. i just got an email from rudy giuliani alerts, but it's really from the trump/pence campaign. i'm looking at it now. did you hear the news? giuliani and the trump team have

reportedly uncovered mass, caps, amounts of voting, caps, irregularities, caps, really? that's reportedly. reportedly is code is that's been in the media. have you heard that? have you heard that anybody believes that there's proof of anything. then they ask for you to contribute to the defense fund so the wealthiest president supposedly we've ever had in the universe needs your money? hard working people to fund this bs? really? that's where it is? that's sur-reality. this is reality. the votes have been counted. some recounted by hand in georgia's case. re-recounted. the 45th president of these united states is out. he can't accept it but that's okay. truth doesn't need you to accept it. he's still targeting states, michigan, specifically detroit, why? is it the fact that it has a huge black population?

the numbers hole the truth. let's bring in the wizard of odds, harry enten. what do you make of it? >> i mean, i got to be honest with you. i do not understand from a statistical standpoint what the president is talking about and what his campaign is talking about. >> show me. >> there's just no proof of any of this stuff. take a look here. talking about detroit, talking about michigan, right? let's look at the turnout relative to 2016. this idea there was this mass amount of new votes, irregularities, the turnout in michigan was only up 4% relative to 2016. in michigan relative to 2016 it was up 15%, so, again, you're talking about in the last segment croating voter fraud they're doing a poor job. if they'ring it in detroit they're not finding the votes they found statewide. ridiculous. >> what did detroit mean for the democrat margin statewide? >> yeah, this is another thing that is so important. again, relative to 2016, look at this. remember, that joe biden needed

to overcome about a 10,000-vote deficit versus relative to hillary clinton biden only gained 850 votes. statewide he gained nearly 165,000 votes against trump relative to clinton. the votes did not come from detroit, chris. they didn't come from detroit. where did they come from? >> show us. >> this is i think so important. where did it come from? it came from the suburbs. that's where it came from. look at this. in the detroit suburbs which is basically everywhere outside of detroit and wayne county plus all the counties that touch wayne county, look at this. the democratic vote margin up 123,761. that's where most of that vote came from and the overall turnout in those detroit suburbs was up 16%. it was the suburbs that turned against donald trump. it wasn't detroit. it wasn't philadelphia, say if you're taking pennsylvania, it was the suburbs and all of these states and the president just can't seem to comprehend that.

he tends to think it's some sort of big city machinery that -- wrong and created fraud. no, service suburban voters. something we've been talking about all along who turned against the president because they couldn't take him or his rhetoric. >> so as i said in the open, if it is that he has some kind of malady that devours intellect and takes reason prisoner, that would help explain why he's trying to blame michigan on these populations that didn't matter, except for one thing, it's not about reason. it could be about color. what is the reality about detroit that is more important than the statistics of votes. >> yeah, i mean take a look here. if you look at the citizen voting age, it's 81% black. michigan at large is 14% african-american, non-detroit wayne county again 14%. you can't help but look at these stats and say he's targeting an african-american population that he has targeted basically throughout his entire political career obviously going back to new york and the central park five and this is just something we've seen over and over and

over again targeting black voters who have overcome so much to come out and vote and the fact is, they did vote against this president but that wasn't the reason why he lost. it was because he lost because of the suburbs and a lot of white voters in those suburbs like in non-detroit wayne county where trump lost considerable ground versus 2016. it wasn't detroit where he lost that ground. it was in those suburbs. >> you're not going to drive a conspiracy with whites in suburbs came after me. not going to happen. >> no. >> he needs to play color. that's what he's always done. harry, thank you very much. i want to bring in senior director of the trial litigation at the campaign legal center. he's a member of the national task force on election crises. you got one right here, counselor. so what has people most anxious? trump is going to get the republican legislatures to change the electors and steal the election, maybe pennsylvania, maybe michigan. maybe both. could it happen? >> no, it's not going to happen.

i mean, the entire idea is it's anti-american. it's un-democratic. and it's really unfortunate anybody has even decided to float it. this idea of overruling the popular vote but the important thing is, it's not working. it hasn't worked. it isn't working? >> what about tho michigan showing up and we hear from charlie dent. why are they going if they can't do anything? >> every legislator in a position of power has made it clear they know that under the constitution and under federal law and under state law they do not have the power to change the rules for the presidential election after election day. there is a vocal fringe minority that's tried to float this idea over and over but it hasn't gone anywhere and it's not going to go anywhere because it would violate federal law and the constitution. >> let's go through the criteria. why would that violate the constitution?

>> because under the constitution and under laws that have been on the books since the 1800s, the state has to decide on its rules for a presidential election by election day. once election day passes the state legislature or anybody else has no more authority to change those rule, all that's left to do after election day is determine the winner based on the vote that is were cast by election day. >> all right. what about michigan and pennsylvania and any other state in terms of what their operative laws allow them to do in case of their elector selection. >> all that any state law or federal law allows a state to do is count the popular votes and determine the allocation of the electoral votes based on the popular vote winner. >> but what about picking the electors so that i pick you and i say no tea, you know you're my guy. go in there and vote the way we want you to, not according to the vote, we think the vote was messed up. can you do that faithless?

>> no, the presidential electors were nominated by the parties in advance of the election and whichever candidate gets the most popular votes and this is all 50 states and the district of columbia, whichever candidate gets the most popular votes, their nominees for the electoral college are appointed and the state legislature cannot change that after the fact under the constitution or under federal law. >> isn't it true that hillary clinton had a couple people go faceless and not vote for her as they were supposed to. >> right, so in most states there are laws on the books that require presidential electors to vote for the winner of the popular vote in their state and have rules if somebody tries to deviate anden faithless they lose their position in the electoral colleges. there have from time to time been a handful of electors who have deviated from the popular vote anyway but very, very small numbers. in most states it's not even possible and it's never been

remotely close to affecting the presidential election result nor would it be close this year given the margin. >> five broke from clinton from trump. it made them tighten to loyalists but the loyalism is going to be a problem. so, what is the net effect of all this? is it just noise in your opinion? do you really believe trump is completely impotent? obviously he doesn't think he is. he wouldn't invite these people to the white house or would he? do you think -- let's put on your political hat and not just your legal hat. would he want to make this show today, get big mouths like me to talk about it, just to mess with us, just to make people pay for him losing with chaos and anxiety and uncertainty and inaction during a pandemic? could this just be for effect? >> it could. i don't know if the president thinks that this is a viable

option. but the fact is it's not, right. the popular vote will decide and has decided the winner of the presidential election and all the president's efforts to try to incite state legislatures is not going to work. if somebody were to try to take him up on the offer it would fail. there are protections in state law and federal law and in the constitution to prevent that sort of overruling of election results. so i think it's very wise that the state legislators have declined the president's invitation to break the laws of the nation and, you know, act counter to the very principles of american democracy. >> you're sure that there's nothing in pennsylvania or michigan law that would allow a legislature to make a change in terms of who their electors go to that would be in opposition to the vote total? >> there is nothing in the law of any state or the laws of the

federal government that would allow a state legislature to change the rules of the election after election day. they cannot change the result of the 2020 election any more than they can change the result of the 1920 election or 1820 election. >> i guess he'll ask them to mess with certification is the only thing he can do because once it's certified their hands are tied the way you're talking about but the operative effect is certification to get them to they out the ballots before. that's complicated because they'll have to show cause and right now you saw even the michig michiganders said we haven't seen any proof. appreciate you laying it out. a second son of president trump is now covid positive. don junior. another big name but you, you know, we're not worried about the big names because they get good health care and unless they're an extremist they'll be okay, god willing but there are hundreds of thousands of new cases and a lot can't get access

to care who check a lot of risk boxes and goes bad so quickly. dr. sanjay gupta is here. he did an exclusive interview with dr. birx of the white house coronavirus task force. how does she see our next few steps? the good doctor on a friday night. you can't beat that. ed quickly, safely, and beautifully, with a lifetime warranty. go from old to new. from worn to wow. the beautiful bath you've always wanted, done right, installed by one expert technician, all in one day. we've been creating moments like these for 35 years, and we're here to help you get started. book your free virtual or in-home design consultation today. typically, do not have access to high quality computer science and stem education. growing up, there was a teacher that believed in me and he took the time to invest in me.

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let's talk science. our case curve suck, okay? take a look at it. the covid cases, higher, faster, every day. no, this wasn't expected. no, this isn't the way it goes. no, it's not just about it being the fall. it's about us. 184,000 people infected today alone. i keep saying the president's son donald trump jr. got it. why? i don't want him to be sick. i hope his family is fine. personal animus is their thing

not mine but what a metaphor. he warrant even keep his own family safe. the white house is a micro cluster. let's bring in dr. sanjay gupta. you know, there is a feeling out there, this is the way it goes, doc. this is what happens. we knew this would happen. it'll be okay. it goes up and it goes down, it happens everywhere. what do you do with that nonchalance? >> no, i mean, this is one of those things where people thought that there was an inevitability about this. there's no question it is a contagious virus but, you know, we've known from the start, chris, how to best protect ourselves. we've seen examples of that all over the world. we've seen examples of that in this country even, places where the transmission really spiked, people took action and they brought that curve down, so that wasn't a vaccine, it was just basic public health actions but the white house, you know, supposed to be one of the most protected houses, they had testing, they had all the resources and stuff, but if you

don't do the basics, all that other stuff is not going to matter and we're see that over and over again, like you, i think don junior is early 40s, he should statistically do well. this is not a virus you want and this could have been avoided. >> it's interesting. his girlfriend got it and took him actually a long time to get it. so hopefully, you know, he's strong and got his resistance and will be fine. that takes us to your big interview. dr. birx, how did you find the doctor in your interview? what was your perception of mood and tone? >> hmm, that's a good question. she's very careful, chris. >> of course. >> she's very careful, as you know, and she's -- she's cautious. i think that she's had a tough time with all this. i mean, she was doing daily briefings up until april. the last briefing before yesterday was on july 8th. she essentially said she was not going to sit there and listen to dr. scott atlas anymore because she fundamentally disagreed with his approach to just about

everything, especially his approach to herd immunity so she took her show on the road and was out there sort of doing her thing. we talked about a lot of different things but one of the things i really drilled down on her with is testing. what's the role of testing? what's the value of testing? where did we go right? where did we go wrong on testing? chris, listen to what she said. >> was there ever a strategic decision not to test as much? >> i think there was not -- there was not a strategic decision not to test. there was a strategic decision to test more until a particular time frame in the late summer when you saw the cdc guidance change to symptomatic testing and from -- i really -- i can't tell you how strongly i believe that symptomatic testing and contact tracing is only -- well, it's less than half the equation and unless you get the other

half of the equation, you're not going to stop community spread. >> it's interesting. what did you take -- >> yeah, what i took is that she basically kind of admitted that, you know, they tried to increase testing for a period of time and then it got to late summer and they basically sort of abandoned the idea of increasing testing at that point. the cdc came out with that pretty spurious guidance which they retracted that said the only people that need to be tested are symptomatic people. we knew it was nonsense because so much of the spread, so much of the spread of the pandemic was coming from people who didn't have symptoms. >> right. >> they didn't know they had the virus. they had no symptoms and yet they were still spreading. why wouldn't you test them? that's how you gain control of a pandemic. you know, what ambassador birx basically said is there came a time when she just fundamentally disagreed with what the cdc had recommended at that point and that's a huge issue, chris.

i mean there's going to be a lot of time to reflect but that may have been one of the most pivotal mistakes when they decided to pull back on testing for a period of time. >> also explains a little bit of the nonchalance about school, they had this political point of view if we can just stick with symptoms because it made sense if you're asymptomatic you must not be as dangerous, this helped them sell people short on schools. what about the vaccine and pfizer filing for emergency use? i would assume that that is a no-brainer but what is the actual process and chance they get it? >> well, i'm very optimistic about this. i'll preface by saying nobody has really seen the data except for this independent committee. it's now being submitted to the fda but if it is what they say it is, i mean, chris, this is -- this is good news. i mean, let me show you the calendar. eua, emergency use authorization, that's been applied for today. keep in mind, i mean, you know, we just got the sequence for

this virus middle of january so that's record, record speed. if all goes as planned this committee is going -- they'll start looking at the data tonight and certainly right away and by december 10th they feel like this advisory committee will be able to convene, discuss the data and maybe even that day, i'm talking december 10th they could grant this emergency use authorization at which point the vaccine which has already been manufactured tens of mountains of doses will start being distributed to states. one more committee that has to meet that is the who, what, where committee. who gets the vaccine, what vaccine in case there's more than one at that point, which vaccine will they get and where is it going to go but, chris, by mid-disease certainly before christmas the first people for the first time outside of a clinical trial could start receiving this vaccine. the first shot. it's two shots, second shot probably first week of january, takes about seven days after that to actually consider yourself immunized so beginning of next year, chris, we could

have the first immunized people by vaccine in this country. >> when do you have people vaccinated enough so that masks disappear from our streets? >> well, you know, i think that's going to be some time. we started doing the math. we can show you what the production of vaccines, so, you know, 40 million doses secretary azar has said will probably be available by the end of this year, okay, two doses per person, that would be 20 million people. if you do the math on that you get 150 million doses by the end of march, 75 million people. that's not enough, obviously, to consider the country sort of protected. you really need to get them to the 60 to 70% range. >> but you're not even close. you're not even close until the middle of the summer. >> yeah, i think it's going to be middle of summer or even early fall before you really get to that point and even then, chris, for a period of time there may still be

recommendations on masks in public gatherings, larger public gatherings will start to become more and more common but for a period of time it may sort of be shrink mitigation if you're considered high risk, you haven't been vaccinated for some reason you may be someone who still wants to wear a mask, you may be in situations where people around you are wearing masks for a period of time. fall of next year, i think, i do think that we're going to have a much greater sense of normalcy. there's people who are depending on your assessment of risk and how your tolerance of risk there are people who will still take measures. you see that in asian countries with certain viral outbreaks. you may see masks coming out again so maybe they don't go away completely. but it's going to be a much, much dump position, i think, by late summer, early fall of next year. >> real quick you want to hear a dream i had the other night about this? i was thinking about figuring out how we -- >> i don't want to hear any of your dream. >> how we frame masks and when we'll get rid of them.

>> friday night for this. keep going with this. okay. >> i had a dream that coop and i -- listen, you'll like this. >> stop, stop. >> coop and i were in some kind of sandstorm in the middle east. we were covering conflict. and i said to him, man, we needed masks because of the sandstorm and i was like, i used to have like five masks on me at a time. do you remember those days and he was like, yeah, you know, we had masks all the time and you came in and had masks for us and i said, why do you have extra masks and you said, because i'm the good doctor. but someday, someday god willing we'll be in a situation where we need a mask and we'll have to think back to what we lived through here. god willing we get through it together. dr. gupta, have a good weekend. appreciate it. you are. you are the master. >> i'm bringing these to your dreams. >> you are welcome there and here anywhere any time. all right. we began the year with the

pandemic. we're nearing the end of it with case counts higher than ever because we have not gotten it done. and one reason for that and it's a big reason has been the president and i believe it cost him the election. now, dan rather has been an observer of our history and culture for a long time. he is a journalist who will be remembered as long as we care about media and free press. how does he see where we are? how does he see where we'll be? powerful, powerful perspective. he has it. i can't even say it, next. traditionally, black people have been shut out [music playing throughout] of the financial system. my grandfather founded industrial bank in 1934 so black people would have a bank that would work with them. because our doors are open, other doors are opening to more opportunities for our community.

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john wheeler illuminated our ideas of the universe at 70 and roger crouch was 56 when he first went into space your best is yet to come are things as crazy as we think they are? is it more crazy than ever? does it mean that we'll never be back to anything we think is normal? let's talk to somebody who has been watching how we develop and knows what happens and why.

icon dan rather. good to see you, brother. hope you and the family are well. >> good to see you. thank you very much, chris. >> i really don't have questions. i just want to hear where your head is. how do you see how we've gotten to this point and what are your questions about where we go from here? >> well, let's get to the heart of the matter. what's happening now in this -- what should be transition period from one presidency to another is bigger than the president. it's bigger than the election. it's the culmination of so many things we've seen over the last four years that actually started well before that. it started getting out of touch with reality that what president trump has done, i mean, everything from ripping children from their parents to stoking racism, constant, relentless attacks on the press, trashing science, it's all there. but there's something deeper and darker going on here in this transition period. and that is that president trump is attacking the urban votes.

keep in mind the votes where there's a large percentage of hispanics, browns, blacks, asians in the cities. now this is a form of racism, and you used the phrase earlier in the broadcast, with donald trump, it's always about color. and that's what this is about. and this is contrary to the whole founding of the country and everything that we aspire to be and not judging people on the basis of their race. but that's exactly what's going on. on the other hand, the important thing, it's easy to lose sight of it, but all this trump propaganda. the thrashings of a president who has been defeated, and the center has held. the extremes are not taking over. we're going to have a new president. joe biden is going to become president. and i think -- i know that a lot

of people who don't believe this and some people who don't want to believe it, but i do think there's a chance of a restart with a new president biden. with the senate, who knows what some republican senators are going to do. it's still up in the air whether the senate will be in control of the republicans or not, depending on what happens in georgia. but, we have to ask yourself the questions and so much poison put into our whole political body. the red beating heart of america is still very strong. but we have to look to the future and ask ourselves is what's going on now, has it laid a template for some future president to say, well, donald trump, you know, he lashed out trying to steal an election. he wasn't successful, but we can take what he's done. i'm very much concerned about that. as you know, chris, we've talked about it before. i'm an optimist by experience and by nature, and i am optimistic about the future, but we have to understand that what

we have here in the united states is a democracy based on the principles of freedom and democracy set forth in the constitution. it's a social compact that is committed to rule of law, decency, kindness and respect for one another. right now, our institutions are holding the process. we had a very honest election. whether we can hold firm with that going into the future, given what we've been through the last four years remains an open question. >> what about the media? what should we do more? what should we do less in terms of lesson learned? >> we should just keep doing our job. there was a good example today in the press room when the cnn reporter said to the press spokesman, the press spokesman said, i don't take questions from activists, and the reporter, and i give her high marks, stood her ground and said i'm not an activist. i'm trying to do my job. and the great jake tapper said

later that this reporter is not an activist except she's an activist for truth and facts and doing her job. i give the media a pretty good grade. we've certainly made our mistakes. we depend today much on the ped polls during the election. we continue to do our job which includes asking all the tough questions of joe biden once he becomes president, which he will. >> kaitlan collins is doing great. she's going to have to search for role models. my generation did not. i got to watch people like you, specifically you. you had the respect of my father because of how you did the job and you showed me that an anchor can bring integrity to any kind of coverage. whether it's weather, law, famine. i learned that from you. have a good weekend and god bless the family, dan rather. >> thank you very much, chris. good luck, god speed. >> we'll be right back.

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thank you for watching on a friday night. a special treat is the big show, cnn tonight with its star, don lemon.

>> the big show. i like that. >> that's good. you're right about that. >> what are you supposed to make of a situation when the expert says these legislatures can't change the law after election day. they can't change the vote but the president is still reaching out and inviting them to the white house and wanting rudy to give them a sell. >> he wants to be nice. there's no ulterior motive to that. >> but i'm saying, what we are supposed to make of what's possible. >> what's possible with what? it's possible he -- there's no changing. i mean, in the court of public opinion, he may want to -- he may -- i don't know if he's going to change anyone outside of his -- the people who are very strongly connected to him and support him. everybody else sees what's going on, and even they see what's going on, but they can't, you know, they can't quit him. so -- they can't. they can't quit him. >> of all the phrases. >> it's true, though. >> i get the idea.