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president is trying to overturn the election. the good news is, his latest attempt, today, seems to have failed. john berman in here for anderson. back to that bad news which is really historically bad. how do we know the president and his team are trying to overturn the election? because they told us. listen. >> the entire election, frankly, in all the swing states should be overturned. and the legislatures should make sure that the electors are selected for trump. >> that's trump campaign lawyer, sydney powell, talking to fox business. and when she says she wants the election overturned, i think what she means is that she wants the election overturned. so far, for all the hair dye running down rudy giuliani's

face. so, for every sex shop pressor, every clown show presentation, this is serious. after all, when the clowns are pouring gasoline over the electoral process and lighting matches, you stop noticing grease paint or the hair dye. first, demanding the vote counting stop in some states and continue in others, depending on whether or not he was ahead at the moment. that has failed. on that note, georgia, this evening, certified its results cementing president-elect biden's win there. phase two has been legal challenges, by the dozen. nearly all of which have either failed, failed miserably, or failed miserably and economically. >> did you all watch "my cousin vinny"? do you know the movie? it's one of my favorite law movies. of course, he comes from brooklyn. >> judges have gotten tired of his courtroom antics and general, legal frailty. there is phase three.

phase three is reaching out to republican-controlled legislatures on the theory they can name their own slate of electors, thereby, throwing the state to president trump. and as we mentioned, overturning the will of the voters, which is so serious. today, on trump's invitation, republican leaders of michigan's house and senate flew to washington to meet with him. when asked about why the leader of the free world should happen to want to meet these two state lawmakers, of all people, at this particular moment. the white house press secretary, who also works for the campaign, gave an answer fishy enough for friday dinner. >> what is the president planning to discuss this afternoon with the two michigan lawmakers? and will he ask them to have the state legislature appoint electors who will support his re-election? what's the nature of that meeting? >> so, he will be meeting, later on. this is not an advocacy meeting. there will be no one from the campaign there. he routinely meets with lawmakers from all across the

country. >> now, of course, you can't always believe kayleigh mcenany, whose very first promise on the job was to never tell a lie, which she broke that same day. or you can believe the president's lawyer, who you just heard laying out the plan. the plan she told us about to overturn the election. rudy giuliani was not at the meeting. he's in isolation, after his son, who works at the white house, was infected with covid. oh. and breaking news. don jr. has it, too. so, yeah, there's another outbreak in the president's circle, which is hardly even news, ma'am. anymore. we do wish them all well. rudy's colleague, jenna ellis, also, absent from the meeting. perhaps, because they realized that whatever transpired could well be illegal. for their part, here is what michigan's house and senate leaders said, after the fact, in a statement. i am quoting now. we have not yet been made aware of any information that would change the outcome of the election in michigan and as legislative leaders, we will follow the law and follow the

normal process regarding michigan's electors. just as we have said throughout this election. the statement concludes with this. and the candidates who win the most votes, win elections and michigan's electoral votes. these are simple truths that should provide confidence in our elections. so, the president's plan is not working, at least not yet. but the fact that he is explicitly trying. again, it's historically alarming. and not done. cnn has also learned he is considering reaching out to republican lawmakers in pennsylvania, as well. and as you know, he's gone so far as to make phone calls to county-election officials in the detroit area, who subsequently tried to rescind their certification of the vote. so, he is trying. and with a few exceptions, most notably, senator mitt romney, and to a much lesser extent, lamar alexander, the majority on capitol hill seem to let him

continue. a press conference. yet, he took no questions. he did, however, declare himself the winner of the election, the savior on vaccines, and a soare loser, in general. >> big pharma ran millions of dollars of negative advertisements against me, during the campaign. which i won, by the way, but, you know, find that out. almost 74 million votes. and pfizer and others were way ahead on vaccines. you wouldn't have a vaccine, if it weren't for me, for another four years because fda would have never been able to do what they did, what i forced them to do. and pfizer and others even decided not to assess the results of their vaccine, in other words, not come out with a vaccine, until just after the election. >> that, by the way, is simply a lie. the timetable was driven by the numbers. oddly enough, so was the

election. cnn's kaitlan collins joins us now from the white house. kaitlan, the president's meeting with these michigan lawmakers, the idea of which is wildly inappropriate. do we know what came out of it? >> well, clearly, not what the president wanted judging by this statement because they are sending a clear signal. they're not going to change anything. they're not going to break from the norm. but, john, they are going far enough to basically say they're not doing what the president and sydney powell, his attorney, as you played that sound, had hoped that they would do. so it was clearly a political move to invite them here. he doesn't often meet with state lawmakers, despite what the press secretary said earlier. this meeting was not on his official schedule, we should note. we only found out about it because of reporting we did in michigan. the question is what next step does the president take here? does he actually go so far to invite those lawmakers from pennsylvania to the white house as well, in a similar fashion to

this? because the president is kind of at the end of the road here, running out of options for what he can do. because it went from waiting for the votes to be counted after the election. of course, we saw what happened there. then, it went from here, as these -- these lawsuits were pursuing. now, two dozen of the lawsuits have either been lost or withdrawn by the president and his allies. this was his last-ditch effort to use his muscle on republicans who, of course, we should note don't want to anger the president but they are not endorsing the president's claims about widespread fraud. >> not at all. the president didn't take any questions at what he said would be a news conference, this afternoon. i'm not sure he fully understands what that phrase means. press secretary kayleigh mcenany hardly took any questions at her white house briefing. what is going on here? >> basically, members of the federal government don't want to take questions from reporters. and the president was just the latest. and since it's very surprising for him to go 17 days, which is

what he's done, without taking any questions from reporters. but then, the press secretary came out. it was her first briefing since october 1st. of course, that was around the time the president got coronavirus. and she, subsequently, did as well. and today, she only took a handful of questions. there's not that many of us in the room, john, because of social distancing. so at the end, i asked her why she couldn't call on everyone in the room. and this is how that went. >> thank you, everyone, for the very good questions today. i don't call on activists. >> i'm not an activist and you haven't taken questions since october 1st, and you just took about five, kayleigh. that's not doing your job. >> so, john, that really kind of gives you indication of where the white house is at and what people do or do not want to answer about the president's efforts to overturn these election results. >> also, tells how good you are at your job, kaitlan collins, which everyone, frankly, knows. we also learned tonight that

donald trump jr. tested positive for coronavirus. what more do we know about that? >> this is surprising because remember, his girlfriend, kimberly giuilfoyle, had coronavirus earlier this year. but now, we are learning the president's son also has been diagnosed with it monday. he's had it for several days now before it was first reported by bloomberg. his spokesperson confirmed he is quarantining, taking the necessary precautions. but people in the president's inner circle are getting this. a lot times, they are disregarding or dismissing the severity of this pandemic. and we got more cases in the white house today, that that rudy giuliani is also quarantining because his son has tested positive for coronavirus. so you see the dangers of this happening inside the west wing and the first family. >> kaitlan collins, bad-ass reporter, thanks. keep up the great work. >> thanks, john.

>> more, now, on how unprecedented this is, not to mention unpresidential. david gergen joins us. also, with us, presidential historian, douglas brinkley. and former michigan governor, jennifer granholm, who is a senior member now of the biden-transition team. david, you wrote a piece today and you say, quote, never before has the opposition undermined the legitimacy of a new president before he has even taken office to anything like this degree or in this fashion. so you served in both republican and democratic administrations. how unprecedented is this, on the way in? >> very. very. when people like doug brinkley and i were growing up, little older than doug. presidents had honeymoons. they usually got six, eight months of time when the opposition, the media, other groups, you know, were very supportive. wanted to see them succeed and it made a major difference.

got things done. then, we went from a period of bill clinton to today, where presidents were denied their honeymoons. they sort of had to make it on their own, they had no honeymoon. that was rougher. this is the first time we have ever seen trying to knee cap an incoming president before he even takes the oath of office. to set out, in a deliberate way, to sabotage. to sabotage a future president before he can focus and try to do things for the country. that is different and i'm -- i'm really worried, john, the more you look at the data and thatwh happening among trump voters, the more you see a swing from maybe this wasn't decided fraudulently to maybe we could decide better. to, now, there is an active view among trump voters, 70% think that biden is coming from a place of fraud. they basically think that he will be illegitimate. think about that.

you know, you translate that in number of, you know, you have 73 million voters who voted for trump. 75% of them, you know, think biden's a fraud. that means, if you boil it down, we're going to have an election day, possibly and likely, 15 million americans who believe our president is illegitimate. that is extremely damaging for the prospects of government and very damaging for our belief in democracy. >> while i do not think the president will be successful in other overturning results of the election, it has an impact, nevertheless. but to that effort, douglas brinkley, to explicitly say you are trying to overturn the election, which is what the president's lawyers are doing, where does that fit in historical precedent? what has there been? i mean, there's nothing close to it, is there? >> it goes against american

traditions. it it's what dictators do. it's the kind of stunt vladimir putin, who trump worships, would do. and i think david used the right word. sabotage. you have a president now trying to wreck what really was one of the great accomplishments in a very hard year of 2020. we, 2016, had russian interference. men like mr. krebs had to work to stop to make sure the cybersecurity was okay. we ended up having historic number of voters. what a great success the election was. instead of donald trump wants to act like a petulant child and -- and it would be okay, if we didn't have 61 more days left. but his erratic behavior in the white house and the way he's trolling around in michigan and georgia and pennsylvania. taking worthless, legal cases to court. and then, losing. makes you think he's mentally

unstable. we fought this for a while. but, you know, this is -- we used to think nixon's last days were dark. or lyndon johnson's were problematic. this is bizarro and i agree it's going to be hard for biden to pull the country together. he will try but i doubt there will be a donald trump there at the inauguration to participate in the ceremony. >> so, governor granholm, you're former governor of michigan, former michigan attorney general. i imagine normally, you would celebrate two michiganders going to the white house. but these are the least-normal circumstances you can possibly imagine. so, on a scale of one to ten, i mean, how inappropriate do you think this meeting was today? >> oh, it was 100. it was so, utterly inappropriate. but the good news is, though, john, is that mr. shirkey, the two legislators, have reaffirmed

their commitment to respect the constitution and the voters. so, two of the problems that have been identified there by david gergen and douglas brinkley. it is long-past time for every republican to come out and stand for american democracy. and acknowledge joe biden as the president-elect so we can move forward together to tackle these big issues, like the covid crisis. it is the republicans need to stem this problem that -- that david gergen has identified. they need to step up. thank you to mitt romney and others, who have. but the rest need to do so as well. it is the republican party has to begin to repair the damage that donald trump has been making. the good news is, though, the gambit, today, however wrong the president's actions might be, the pillars that are holding up this democracy. they are not going to be toppled.

the president may be slashing at them. he may be flailing at them, in desperation. but these pillars will not fall. >> no. >> and the choice of the voters is going to be upheld. >> it's not working, not yet. as i said, at the open, that's the good news. but the bad news is the president is explicitly trying. and as you ever ahave all state eloquently, that, in and of itself, leaves a real mark. real hard to recover from. i appreciate you being here. douglas brinkley, david gergen. >> thank you. >> next, former secretary on what he is not seeing from his senate colleagues. where are the republicans now? and later, with cases, hospitalizations, and fatalities soaring and a new and sobering forecast on the pandemic. that, and more, when "360" continues. now, braava jet mops right where you need it with an adjustable precision jet spray and an advanced pad system. and offers personalized cleaning suggestions unique to your home.

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gained a couple of more pounds. that's good for the babies. between the moments that make us who we are, and keeping them safe, private and secure, there's webex. ♪ ♪ beautiful. governor jennifer granholm referred to it in the last segment. senator mitt romney had this to say about the president's scheme to overturn the vote -- he lost. senator lamar alexander of tennessee, congressman of texas, and fred upton of michigan, all republicans, have each raised concerns of different degrees about what is going on. most republicans, though, have been more reticent.

far more reticent. perspective, now, from former clinton defense secretary, william cohen. si secretary, thank you so much for being with us right now. some republicans are growing restless in the delay, moving forward. what does that do? give them tums. what does their anxiety and restless do if they're not speaking out publicly? >> it doesn't do much. in fact, it confines them to a wall of shame. their name should be associated with that and frankly, i consider them to be sunshine conservatives. when you look at what president trump has tried to do, he has tried to undermine the tenth amendment. namely, there are states' rights.

states rights, the right to vote, which is governed by the state in the county. any mail-in ballots, any absentee ballots. they're all fraudulent. so he is say thery're okay as long as he can vote by mail. that's not fraudulent. what he is doing is saying anybody who votes by -- other than in person is committing fraud on the american people. so what he is doing, in essence, he is trying to criminalize those who live in cities, as they -- he has done for black people and people of color. naming them presumptively criminal because of the color of their skin or because they live in cities and, therefore, they must be engaged in fraud. and this is time for my republican friends who consider themselves to be conservatives to speak out for states' rights. that every state has a right to set what the procedure and policy is going to be in terms

of the people's right to vote. so, i think he is undermining the constitution, tenth amendment, and those who consider themselves conservatives should be the first in line to speak out against that. >> the fact of the matter is that 50 sitting republican senators have said squat. they've said nothing, so far. we have ben sasse, mitt romney, and a much lesser extent, lamar alexander. but 50 have said nothing. you have these two michigan legislators go to the white house, today. said the law in michigan says whoever won the popular vote there is going to get the l electors. but how much easier would it be if mitch mcconnell would speak out publicly for these politicians? >> i don't understand why they're so hesitant. they -- apparently, they fear the president. that he might turn his supporters loose on them. and they would send hate mail and other types of activities directed toward them. i was talking to a gentleman

who, at 17, lied about his age and joined the army because we had been attacked by the japanese and also the germans. he was 17 when he joined. he was the -- one of the first ones on omaha beach. he went back during the korean war. and you think objectabout the gt generation. they were fighting nazi bullets and bombs coming at them. and, here, we have a bunch of senators who fear a vote against them, who fear they might lose? not their life or their limbs but might lose their office, if they come out and say what they know, in their hearts, is really true. and joe biden, happy birthday, today, joe biden. but joe biden is the next president of the united states. he is the president-elect. and they should say so. they should at least say he should be given access to all of the intelligence, the material that will allow him to start on -- on a run, the first day. and i would like to say to my former colleagues. they like to cite the founding fathers. i would hope they go back and

read george washington's lessons about civility. and there were 110 lessons. 110. the 110th lesson was labor to keep alive in your breast that little celestial light called conscience. labor to keep alive in your breast, that little celestial light called conscience. look to your conscience, and decide whether or not you are going to support the constitution, which you swore an oath to do. or whether you are going to live in fear of president trump, ex-president trump. and my one wish for all of those who are listening and watching is that the media, come january 21, that the media stop covering donald trump. cover joe biden and the enormous challenge that he has. put the former president off to the side and ignore him, as much as possible, and don't cover what he is saying because he is determined to keep your focus on him. and disrupt and undermine whatever joe biden hopes to

accomplish during the next four years. >> secretary cohen, a lot to think about the light of conscience. i worry, tonight, that light is flickering, if not going out completely. but thank you. thank you for being with us tonight. just ahead, a new coronavirus-tracking model suggests it's about to get much, much worse. particularly, if most americans don't wear masks or social distance, the details when we continue. ♪ (children laughing) ♪ (music swells) (dog barking) ♪ (music fades) (exhales) experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list sales event. sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, zero due at signing, and a complimentary first month's payment. yit's more than just a house. [music playing throughout] it's a kitchen that's been passed down, along with the recipes.

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a well-respected coronavirus model now projects tens of thousands more coronavirus deaths in the u.s., than it did just a week ago. according to the researchers,

u.s. deaths are now expected to total 471,000 by march. that's about an 85% increase from where we are right now. and it gets worse. that number assumes we do things right. that 40 state governments will impose or reimpose social distancing or other mandates. otherwise, the total could be as high as 658,000. joining me now, is the man whose group publishes that model. chris murray, director for health metrics and evaluation. thank you for being with us. the new projections are just terrible. why do you think projections in deaths are increasing faster, right now, than what was expected? >> you know, that's a great question. we, certainly, have been companyi expecting for months now this big surge. but it's really explosive. we're seeing in the cases and death numbers, things going -- the numbers are just going up

faster than we expected. and i think it's probably fatigue. that people are just not being as cautious as we had hoped they would be. and we're not seeing -- as the numbers surge up, we sort of expect people to start being really careful and that's not what's happening. >> the 2,000 deaths reported yesterday and, who knows, we could hit that again today. that's a big number and was, you're right, i think that was a little bit unexpected so soon in this surge. your models are projecting 2,500 deaths a day by mid-january. that's two months from now. so given what we are seeing today, you know, is it possible that projection for mid-january is on the low side? >> it certainly is. you know, that projection, as you mentioned, assumes that governors in the 40 states that have the bigger epidemics are going to act. they are going to put in a set of mandates, and that's going to put the brakes on transmission.

and that's how we get that sort of slow increase, as you say, from -- if we don't see those actions, we go up as high as 4,000 deaths per day in january. >> that's so upsetting. you mention you haven't seen the change in behavior, yet, that we need to see to keep the numbers go down. but one thing we have seen in the past is when things do get bad, people do start to alter the way they live. one way you can measure that is mobility. how much people move around or not? what are you seeing? >> we are seeing in the mobility data, that comes from cell phone use, so pretty use. . we're seeing, you know, some indication that it's coming down. but it's not like we saw back in the spring when we saw, you know, the extraordinary surge. even before governors put the mandates in, people got really

scared in the spring. and mobility really went down, profoundly. we are seeing a slow decline but nothing like what we saw before. >> interesting. i didn't realize that. it's not slowing down as quickly as before. finally, pfizer, today, applied for emergency-use approval for its vaccine. it's going to take some weeks to get this all done, and weeks for them to get their vaccine out to people. but, when will you start to factor that into your projections? >> we are planning to factor that in the week after thanksgiving. we've got the models running. we've been looking what -- what the vaccination could do. but unfortunately, given the sca scaleup, even if we do a national sort of crisis scaleup, a lot of the death that's going to occur in december and january will occur, anyway. because it takes about four weeks for the vaccine to work. you got to have two doses, three weeks apart. another week for it to fully have its impact.

sorks y so, you know, the vaccine's great for getting back to normal in the summer. >> chris murray, tough stuff. i really appreciate the work you are doing and i appreciate you being with us tonight. >> thanks. >> perspective now from dr. celine gounder, infectious disease specialist and epidemiologist that serves on joe biden's task force. and fda commissioner under george w. bush, dr. mcclellan. i want to start with you. the surge we are now smack in the middle of or maybe even just the beginning of is, by far, the worst. but will, hopefully, be the last. what further steps do you think need to be taken now to get it under control? >> john, most important is what you were just talking about with dr. murray, which is help to enable all americans, who are tired of what they've been through over the course of this year. to take the steps needed to slow the spread.

and there's some steps that our state and local officials can take, in terms of reducing the degree of which businesses are open. there's some steps congress could take, just like they did in the spring, to provide some financial support for the businesses that are affected and the people whose jobs are put in jeopardy by the need for more distancing. but those are really the most important effects -- most important steps in the short-term. other things we can do, increased access to testing. a lot better than it used to be. there's more room we could take in ramping it up. we don't have as many of them as we would like. but they could help with preventing some of the more severe cases and bringing down hospitalization. so, this will, hopefully, be the last, big surge. but we do have some tough weeks ahead and we all need to pull together to make it through the coming weeks.

>> dr. gounder, the president-elect says he does not want a national lockdown. he says it emphatically. you say it, also. been very clear about it for the last few days. what does the advisory board, which you are a member of and the president-elect, what do you want to see happen, between now and inauguration day? >> well, a couple things. i think, one, americans have had a really hard, last several months. there has been some support, in the form of stimulus bills, to help people who have lost their jobs and the like make it through. but, that needs to be readdressed now. that money is vuning orunning o. and there has been a stimulus bill before congress. the senate has yet to take it up. senator mitch mcconnell really does need to move forward on that, and not wait for january 20th. people are having difficulty making rent, now. people are not able to put food on the table now. so, you know, a lot of this fatigue is also related to some of the economic consequences of

the pandemic. and if we can help people with the economic side of things, i think they'll be much more likely to help and work with us as doctors and so on with the medical side of things. >> fda has scheduled a septemde 10th meeting for their vaccines. as a former commissioner of the fda, can you explain these steps? >> i'm really impressed what the fda has done. what scientists working with them have done. and what all the people who have participated in these clinical trials have done to get us to this point. the data from pfizer that went into the emergency-use authorization, today, are pretty impressive. but what needs to happen now is a close look at athe data by fd

staff. now, they are going to take a detailed look over the next few weeks and as you said, there will an independent review by the fda advisory committee in the second week in december. and that committee is going to review, also, the fda's assessment of the data. there will be a close look not only at how beneficial the vaccines are but, also, what the safety data are showing. remember, there were over 40,000 people in this clinical trial. also, right on the heels of this pfizer vaccination application is one from moderna. so, we could see action and could see vaccines available in mid-december, if all those steps work out. >> and that's -- would be simply terrific news. if the vaccine can get to the people who need it, which gets to the idea of distribution. which gets to the idea of coordination between the current administration and the president-elect's transition. dr. gounder, how much does the biden/harris team know about the plan to distribute the vaccine? >> well, we simply don't have the inner-administration data

plans and so forth. so we have access to what is publicly available. in newspapers, on television, online. and -- and frankly, that's not nearly the level of detail we need. that would be like waging war with a superpower, based on watching cnn and reading "the new york times." that's, obviously, inadequate. and so, we really do need for the administration -- for the gsa, rather, to move forward with ascertainment. so that, our team can interface with its counterparts in the current administration, and get that information and what's already in the works and where we are picking up. >> dr. celine gounder, dr. mark mcclellan, thank you, both, for the work you do and thank you for being with us tonight. >> thank you. >> up next, more on this crisis. 360's gary tuchman has a look at how the failures of one statement government to push

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people tested are positive for the virus. one reason, according to that ihme study we mentioned earlier, south dakota is one of two states where mask usage is below 50%. despite all that, governor chris christy gnome said the rise in cases has nogtd thing to do witr refusal to issue a mask mandate. quote, together, we've done a good job. more, now, from 360's gary tuchman. >> are you going to be okay if i sit you up a little bit? >> sure. >> reporter: keith sugden is very ill. the 88-year-old has covid-19. he's in the hospital in rapid city, south dakota. a state with an explosive increase in covid cases. incredibly, more people in south dakota are testing positive than negative. >> you people have helped -- helped me so much. the last three days has been rough. it's improved. >> reporter: this is an intensive-care unit just for

covid patients at the monument health rapid city hospital. the hospital's vice president of medical affairs. >> i am very scared for the state, for my neighbors, for my own family. sometimes, for myself. and this is the truth. >> we're going to get better. >> reporter: employees here are doing heroic work. >> yes, you are doing better. >> reporter: but there is great concern that, as cases continue to increase, it will be difficult to maintain adequate staffing levels. as recently as the end of july, there were just five covid patients in this hospital. today, there are 85 covid patients in this hospital. hei heidi shoeman is a nurse's aide. >> there's a lot of days i go home and just cry because i get to go home to my family and see my daughter and my parents and everybody. and some of these people don't

make it out of here, unfortunately. >> reporter: for keith, things are touch and go. >> it's been a great life and these -- these -- these tears in my eyes are happy tears. they're not sad tears. to know that how many people really care. you kind of got to wondering, once in a while. >> 90% right now. >> reporter: a few days ago, tom felt achy and had a scratchy throat. now, he is also extremely sick. receiving high levels of oxygen. >> how are you feeling right now? >> a little anxious. >> you have good care here. great doctors and nurses. >> oh, yeah. the care here, excellent. >> reporter: one of the rns treating tom moved from to south

dakota from sougth florida righ before the outbreak. >> thankfully, i haven't contracted it yet. i am just praying it stays that way. >> it's scary, isn't it? >> yeah, it is. >> what do you say to people who don't take it seriously, covid? >> well, i don't know if i should say this or not. but i believe that the whole covid situation was a failure, from the top-government leadership to the state government. they didn't deal with it. they, apparently, didn't think they needed to listen to the experts and stuff. >> my people are happy. >> reporter: the governor of south dakota has refused to encourage her citizens to wear masks or socially distance. even as their state becomes a national leader in covid sickness. so, south dakota hospitals are taking it upon themselves to try to keep people safe. >> some folks don't even believe this disease is real. >> here, in south dakota? >> yes.

and so, misinformation is one thing that leads to misguidance. but, also, there is this streak of we will not do something, if you tell me to do it. i'll do it if i feel like it. >> that's the way you feel when you give advice. >> that's >> my father told me when i was a kid, he poked me and he says, you know, everybody's got troubles, and you have to help them if you can. and i've done that all my life. >> and now people are helping you, keith. >> they are. they are, thank god. >> reporter: the governor held a news conference this week. she gave zero indication of a change of philosophy. you talked, john, about that psa that's been cut. that public service announcement is on tv a lot here, and the governor is saying, we've done a good job fighting covid-19. but the numbers don't lie. south dakota is a beautiful

state, but it's in a very bad place right now. john. >> and there are beautiful people suffering inside that hospital, gary. we do care. please let them know that all around the country, we do care what's happening to them. terrific reporting. thanks so much for being with us, gary tuchman. coming up, first daughter and soon to be former presidential adviser ivanka trump pushing back on this bombshell new report about payments from the trump organization. wait till you hear how she's responding. the details when we continue.

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first daughter ivanka trump

is blasting two new york state fraud investigation cases that have in part put a spotlight of hundreds of thousands of dollars she was apparently paid by the trump family business. "the new york times" reports that the two separate probes, one criminal and the other civil, are examining trump organization tax write-offs on just a portion of the $26 million paid in consulting fees. nearly $750,000 of which, according to "the times," appear to have been paid to ms. trump. "the times" says there is no indication ivanka trump, whose government post as an official adviser to her father until he leaves office in january, no indication she's the focus of either inquiry, and she perhaps not surprisingly is now sounding like her father in pushing back. in a tweet she wrote, quote, this is harassment pure and simple. this inquiry by nyc democrats is 100% motivated by politics, publicity and rage. they know very well there's nothing here, and that there was no tax benefit whatsoever. these politicians are simply

ruthless. perspective now from elaina plott, whose colleagues at the "times" broke this story. she herself has written extensively on ivanka trump and jared kushner. obviously this reporting from your colleagues at "the times" and ivanka trump's response, what's your sense of how concerned she is about these local issues? >> well, i think the tweet in many ways, john, speaks for itself. one thing that's been quite fascinating covering ivanka trump over the course of the past four years is how we have gone from seeing a first daughter and official adviser who in many ways did everything she could to distance herself from the tenor of her father from in many ways the politics of her father, trying in many ways to present herself as someone who was still part and parcel of the manhattan liberal community from which she came. and the past few months especially have shown that that's no longer the community with which she identifies, john. and i think the tone of this tweet in particular shows that

not only has she come to more politically identify with her father, but also in a much more personal way in terms of adopting his tactics and being quite comfortable projecting an image that looks much more like his. >> two things i want to point out. the first is that one thing that may be getting under her skin here is this is a state investigation. this is something that she can't be pardoned for by her father in the next 60 days. i'm not saying she necessarily needs a pardon, but this is something that there's nothing that he or she can do to stop in the next 61 days. >> it's such a great point. the reality, of course, is that you are seeing, however gradually, a number of republicans, whether it's, you know, some in conservative media like the washington examiner or others in congress gradually begin to call on trump to realize that he has, in fact, lost his re-election race, which means that come january 21st,

the trumps will be once more private citizens, and with cy vance and letitia james in new york pursuing these investigations, as far as i can tell, you know, well after the trumps are out of office, you know, the white house is no longer an umbrella for this family in terms of avoiding what could eventually come of these investigations. and as you said, i think it's important to point out we have no indication at "the times" whatsoever that ivanka trump is a primary focus of these investigations. but if, like you say, she is somebody who is ultimately, you know, charged with criminal activity, this is no longer something -- she's no longer roger stone, who could beckon for a pardon from the white house. >> you keep on talking about what happens in 60 or 61 days after ivanka trump and jared kushner are no longer part of the trump administration. what's their plan? i mean do they intend to come back here to new york city where i am because there is this

notion floating around that they may not get invited to quite as many parties here. >> the first thing i would say, when i did a pretty extensive profile for the atlantic a couple years ago, a prominent gentleman in new york told me that the only thing that was unpardonable in new york was poverty, which is to say that i'm a bit skeptical of, you know, maybe wish fulfillment headlines that would suggest that ivanka trump would never be invited to the met gala again. i don't know that i feel comfortable as a reporter saying i believe that's entirely true. but at the same time, you know, i think ivanka trump is somebody who has quite enjoyed her time in politics, and, you know, i think it's prudent to read recent tea leaves where she's been willing to say that she's pro life, she's conservative now. what does that mean for her future in politics? i think it's