notion floating around that they may not get invited to quite as many parties here. >> the first thing i would say, when i did a pretty extensive profile for the atlantic a couple years ago, a prominent gentleman in new york told me that the only thing that was unpardonable in new york was poverty, which is to say that i'm a bit skeptical of, you know, maybe wish fulfillment headlines that would suggest that ivanka trump would never be invited to the met gala again. i don't know that i feel comfortable as a reporter saying i believe that's entirely true. but at the same time, you know, i think ivanka trump is somebody who has quite enjoyed her time in politics, and, you know, i think it's prudent to read recent tea leaves where she's been willing to say that she's pro life, she's conservative now. what does that mean for her future in politics? i think it's certainly, you know, a pointed posture on her

part. >> elaina plott, we love your reporting. thanks so much for being with us tonight. the news continues. let's hand it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." thank you very much, john. i am chris cuomo. welcome to "prime time." so joe biden, the president-elect, was making plans today to help all those hungry people in this country figure out a relief plan with other top democrats. but how can you get any relief past the trump party, which is delaying any help while they wait for what? for trump to finish trying to rig the election results. they literally won't act on testing, a push for a transition, a push for a deal for relief, with more people waiting in line for food that we've seen since the great depression. how much worse will things get in 61 days if they allow this inaction to continue? you know, 61 days ago, we were under 200,000 dead. still a horrible number. now we're over 250,000. is that going to be another "it

is what it is" for these people? don't allow it. don't allow your outrage to fatigue. we have to do better than we are right now. now, you can't say that for trump. he's going to do nothing about this virus even though it is savaging our country and his own family. donald trump jr. now has covid. that makes two trump sons, trump's wife, and himself all taking ill with the virus that he remains determined to ignore. now, of course we wish donald trump jr. well. i hope he stays asymptomatic and he gets through it and he doesn't give it to any of his kids. now, his father is allowing too many to fall ill through his inaction. it's almost as if he is afflicted by an additional malady, one that devoured his intellect and took his sense of reason prisoner, rendering him incapable of grasping reality. exhibit a. >> which i won by the way, but,

you know, we'll find that out. almost 74 million votes. >> he's right on the last part. almost 74 million votes. the problem is somebody else was running, and his behavior, his lies, his inaction, his lack of decency inspired the most people ever to come out in a presidential election almost with the sole priority of getting rid of him. joe biden set the record in besting trump bigly, okay? we will have never seen as many votes as joe biden gets in the final tally. more than 6 million more than the only president -- and no irony -- that we've ever seen actually ignore a pandemic. the state of play, the key state of georgia has turned blue. it just certified its election results, a function of a hand

count audit. trump loses to biden by 12,000-plus votes. even the staunch trump loyalist who delayed fighting the pandemic himself in deference to trump, that republican governor had to admit it's over. >> state law now requires the governor's office to formalize the certification. as governor, i have a solemn responsibility to follow the law, and that is what i will continue to do. >> we get it. you don't want to do it. you don't want to make anybody upset. if you had any choice, you wouldn't do it. that's why we have law here, governor. you have to do it. meanwhile, the man you look up to, donald trump, continues to look for ways around the law, doesn't he? he's doing so in plain sight, and his party says nothing. you saw another example of it today. i don't know why these lawmakers from michigan agreed to a public meeting when they know we are all waiting to see if they will

help trump defy the will of people in their state of michigan. the legislators say, oh, no, we came to use the time to beg the president for covid relief. come on. you know why you were invited. you decided to come. now, after the meeting, they said, quote, we have not yet been made aware of any information that would change the outcome of the election in michigan, and as legislative leaders, we will follow the law and follow the normal process regarding michigan's electors just as we have said throughout this election. michigan's certification process should be a deliberate process free from threats and intimidati intimidation. in michigan, trump is down by more than 150,000 votes. 154,000. that's a 2.8 percentage point margin. there is no precedent for any kind of recount there. now, what do they keep telling you? systemic blah, blah, blah. everybody's in on it. you're in on it. i'm in on it. everybody's in on it.

where do they focus? big cities. philadelphia, detroit, atlanta. you think it's a coincidence that all those cities have big african-american populations. come on, you know what this is about. they're going ugly to the end. now, one thing is for sure. nobody acting on this pandemic and the economic pain for another two months could put us in the biggest hole we have ever seen. is that where we're headed? let's discuss. dana bash, charlie dent, thank you both, especially on a friday night. dana, what's your latest take on the state of play? we just heard plott saying from "the new york times" that you're hearing about a republican here, republican there starting to say, he's got to admit. i don't really hear it. what are you hairing wiearing w sources in terms of where we are with a nixonesque come to jesus meeting where the heads of what

used to be the republican party go to trump and say enough. >> i don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. i'm not hearing that. it's hard to imagine a mitch mcconnell or any of his immediate deputies or kevin mccarthy, who used to serve with the esteemed gentleman i'm on with, mr. dent. no, i just don't see it. what i am hearing, chris, and i heard again today, is more of the rank and file, even in the senate, talking amongst themselves about trying to find a way out. and when i say "find a way out, " the tone and the tenor in conversations that i'm having with republicans, it's different after what happened yesterday with the rudy giuliani press conference, with meddling in michigan yesterday and today as well. and, you know, the hope was that it would work itself out. that was a quote from a republican senate source i talked to, and that it was very clear to them yesterday that

they're far from that. so the question is what are they going to do? at this point, i don't know that they can really convince him of anything. at this point it's getting on the right side of history finally and getting on the record that this is wrong, what the president is doing. >> they just have to say it. they don't have to make him believe it. i mean, charlie, we all saw it firsthand. rudy giuliani was the metaphor for the melting away of your party. we watched it in real time. do you really believe that your party is just going to wait this out and then think that they'll have any kind of leverage going into this next period and then the midterms? >> well, look, chris, the election's over. everybody knows it. you know, there's no time left on the clock. the score's on the board. it's over. every republican with whom i've spoken knows it's over. why they don't want to say it publicly is a bit of a mystery. maybe it's because of the georgia races. maybe it's because -- maybe it's because they're worried about trump unleashing the base against them.

but they know the game is over, and they'd be smart to admit it and just acknowledge it right now. pennsylvania, for example, is going to certify their vote on monday. it's going to happen. nothing's going to change. everybody knows it. so republicans are going into the midterms with the wind at their back unless donald trump makes a lot of noise and screws things up for them. you usually want to make the midterms about the party of the president, not your own party. >> why would they have the wind at their back when any campaigner worth their salt will say they did nothing while people were starving in this country for months? no relief put up for even a vote by mcconnell while they waited for trump to get his feelings in effect. >> only for historical reasons, just because the midterm election always benefits the party not of the president. that's always been the case with two exceptions, i think, in the last 75 years, '98 and 2002. obviously what's happening right now is not helping republicans moving into the midterms.

but, hey, we're a long way off from that. >> true, true. dana, the optics were terrible for the michigan lawmakers today. they can say they went there to beg for covid money, but everybody knows that wasn't why they were invited. what are you hearing about how that meeting went and what the expectation is? >> well, you know, from the beginning, the white house tried to spin the fact that the president wasn't trying to influence them. we don't know exactly what was said or not said on that notion inside the meeting. but what we do know and most importantly is they came out saying that nothing is going to change, that the michigan results are the michigan results. and, you know, these republican lawmakers almost didn't have a choice of who flew in from michigan. they were put in such a box by the president that if they came out and said, you know what? we're going to fight, it would have put -- i've talked to republicans in michigan about this. it would have put every

republican who won, who on the ballot, not just, you know, on the federal level, on the state level, i mean down-ballot in trouble there. and so, look, that was not going to happen. but just the fact that the president put them in this situation and is continuing to put other republicans in this situation is one of the reasons why i'm hearing, you know, much more alarm. but, again, to what end? they just don't think -- a congressman dent knows this. he was there. they don't think they can have much of an influence on the president. they're in a box frankly that they created. >> charlie, you know the play. the play isn't to convince him of anything. it's just to clear your own record for what's going to be examined against you. we may have seen the only demonstration today of where covid did somebody a favor because those michigan lawmakers were supposed to be sitting with trump and rudy.

you say you're there to argue for covid money. you were supposed to be looking at rudy giuliani. the only reason he wasn't there was because, you know, god forbid it gets any worse, but his son has been diagnosed with covid, and rudy has to quarantine. we wish him and his family well, of course. but he was going to go to that meeting. charlie, you take that meeting even when you were on the state level. i know it's cool for the president to invite you to the white house. but in this atmosphere you get called to the white house to meet with rudy, and you take that meeting? >> well, i'll tell you what. i know what my sources in the pennsylvania general assembly tell me. the state senate majority leader is now the pro tem and the speaker of the house are going to be meeting with the president. they've been invited. they're going to go. nothing is going to change by the way because pennsylvania law and the constitution are very clear on this. the general assembly does not have the authority to produce an alternative set of electors. it is not going to happen. and by the way, if this election

is not -- the general assembly will never go along with that because they had a terrific night. they had a terrific election for the statehouse and the state senate. and the only thing. >> but then why go? >> what's that? >> then why go? >> well, i suspect -- you know, you're being invited to the white house by the president. i think it's a big deal for them. they're going to go down and get a nice lunch or dinner. they may be on the menu, but they're going to go down, and they're going to hear the president out. but i can assure you nothing is going to change. i think they're flattered that they've been invited. >> yeah, but the why matters. dana, can't you write the commercial now? >> yeah. >> you know, whatever the man or woman's name is, you show them walking into the white house. when our democracy needed leadership most, look at this cat walking in, you know, to the white house to meet with the guy who's trying to steal the election. >> yeah, no question about it. the problem is what you talk about every night on this show.

the problem is that that commercial is powerful and works in a universe where everybody agrees to the same set of facts. and as long as donald trump is a presence in american politics and, much more importantly, in the republican party, and as long as he has willing partners spewing conspiracy theories, then walking into the white house for that sector of the population hearing things that are just not true and believing them could help, which is really disturbing, but it's just, you know, another example of where we are. >> charlie, last word. >> yeah. these legislators are only going to get themselves in trouble if they defy the popular vote. that's what will happen. if they do anything to not certify the election where biden won, there will be a political uproar like they've never dealt with. so i guarantee you this is all going to blow over once these

results are certified and the electors do their job in december. >> only one thing has surprised me in the last few days. you know what it was? that trump didn't come out and trash rudy. he knows rudy killed him yesterday. he knows that rudy -- forget about -- i'm telling you, you know you have a bad day when your face melting on television is the least of your problems. >> he's the only one out there. but you know this, chris. he, rudy giuliani, is the only one out there willing to fight for the president, and that's something when you're donald trump, especially when you know you're fighting a losing battle, and he knows that. >> but he's all about optics, charlie, and his guy was melting on tv, literally blamed the entire universe and then said the key phrase that killed him, "we can prove it." they've been in court 30 times. they never proved anything. it killed the president yesterday. it ended yesterday. >> yeah. well, you know what? rudy was saying that the vote in

philadelphia was stolen. well, if the philadelphia democrats were trying to steal the election, they did a really lousy job of it because biden underperformed hillary in pennsylvania. >> it would be the only conspiracy where the conspirators wanted to also take care of the other side down-ballot. we're going to take the big ticket, but we're going to give you congress because even though we're felons, we're still fair. what a world. what a world. we want to make it look good. the planning had to be messed up. the guy who figured it out has been dead for almost a decade. dana, thank you very much. i'd be laughing if it weren't so damn sad. but i have a little makeup on tonight. i don't want to mess it up. charlie dent, have a good weekend. dana bash, god bless.

be well. all right of of all the states for trump to make a stink about, he's focused on michigan, and it doesn't make sense because he's down so much. how much? what does it mean? what is in context? why is it so hapless for him to do what he's doing? we can show it statistically. the wizards of odds will take a look at michigan and why this makes no sense, especially with detroit. i gave you the color play, but it still doesn't make any sense. harry will tell you why, next. some hot cocoa? mom, look! are you okay? head home this holiday with the one you love. visit your local mercedes-benz dealer today for exceptional lease

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n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card. i just got an email from rudy giuliani alerts, but it's really from the trump/pence campaign. i'm looking at it now. did you hear the news? giuliani and the trump team have reportedly uncovered mass -- caps -- amounts of voting -- caps -- irregularities. really? that's reportedly? reportedly is code for that's been in the media. have you heard that anybody believes that there's proof of anything? then they ask for you to contribute to the defense fund. so the wealthiest president supposedly we've ever had in the universe needs your money, hardworking people to fund this b.s.? really? that's where it is? that's surreality.

this is reality. the votes have been counted. some recounted by hand in georgia's case. re-recounted, okay? the 45th president of these united states is out. he can't accept it, but that's okay. truth doesn't need you to accept it. he's still targeting states -- michigan, specifically detroit. why? is it the fact that it has a huge black population? the numbers hold the truth. let's bring in the wizard of odds, harry enten. what do you make of it? >> i mean i got to be honest with you. i do not understand from a statistical standpoint what the president is talking about and what his campaign is talking about. >> show me. >> there's just no proof of any of this stuff. take a look here. you're talking about detroit. you're talking about michigan, right? let's take a look at the turnout relative to 2016. this idea there was this mass amount of new votes, irregularities. the turnout in michigan was only up 4% relative to 2016.

in michigan relative to 2016, it was up 15%. so again you're talking about in that last segment if they're creating this voter fraud, they're doing a really poor job of doing it. if they're doing it in detroit, they're not finding the votes that fair finding statewide. it's ridiculous, christopher. >> also what did detroit mean for the democrat margins statewide? >> this is another thing that's so important. again, relative to 2016, look at this. remember that joe biden needed to overcome about a 10,000-vote deficit. versus relative to hillary clinton, biden only gained 858 votes against trump in detroit. statewide, he gained nearly 165,000 votes against trump relative to clinton. the votes did not come from detroit, chris. they didn't come from detroit. where did they come from? >> show us. >> this is so important. where did it come from? it came from the suburbs. that's where it came from. look at this. in the detroit suburbs, which is basically everywhere outside of detroit in wayne county plus all the counties that touch wayne

county. look at this. the democratic vote margin up 123,761. that's where most of that vote came from and the overall turnout in those detroit suburbs was up 16%. it was the suburbs that turned against donald trump. it wasn't detroit. it wasn't philadelphia, say, if you're taking pennsylvania. it was the suburbs in all of these states, and the president just can't seem to comprehend it. he tends to think it's some sort of big city machinery that did him wrong and created fraud. no. it was suburb bean voters who turned against the president because they couldn't take him or his rhetoric. >> so as i said in the open, if it is that he has some kind of malady that devours intellect and takes reason prisoner, that would help explain why he's trying to blame michigan on these populations that didn't matter except for one thing. it's not about reason. it could be about color. what is the reality about detroit that is more important than the statistics of votes? >> yeah.

i mean take a look here. if you look at the citizen voting age population in detroit, it's 81% black. michigan at large is 14% african-american. non-detroit wayne county, again, 14%. you can't help but look at these stats and say he's targeting an african-american population that he has targeted basically throughout his entire political career obviously, you know, going back to new york and the central park five. and this is just something we've seen over and over and over again. he's targeting black voters who have overcome so much to come out and vote, and the fact is they did vote against this president, but that wasn't the reason why he lost. it was because he lost because of the suburbs and a lot of white voters in those suburbs just like in non-detroit wayne county where trump lost considerable ground versus 2016. it wasn't detroit where he lost that ground. it was in those suburbs. >> you're not going to drive a conspiracy with whites in suburbs came after me. >> no. >> not going to happen. he needs to play color. that's what he's always done. thank you. i want to bring in the

senior director of the trial litigation at the campaign legal center. he's a member of the national task force on election crises. we got one right here, counselor. what has people most anxious? trump's going to get the republican legislatures to change the electors and steal the election, maybe pennsylvania, maybe michigan, maybe both. could it happen? >> no, it's not going to happen. the entire idea is -- it's anti-america. it's undemocratic, and it's really unfortunate that anybody's even decided to float it, this idea of overalliruling popular vote. but the important thing is it's not working. it hasn't worked. it isn't working. >> what about those michigan anders showing up at the white house? why are they going if they can't do anything? >> every legislator who is in a position of power in one of these states has made very clear that they know that under the constitution and under federal law and under state law, they do

not have the power to change the rules for the presidential election after election day. there is a vocal fringe minority that's tried to float this idea over and over, about you it hasn't gone anywhere, and it's not going to go anywhere because it would violate federal law and the constitution. >> so let's go through the criteria one at a time. why would that violate the constitution? >> because under the constitution and under laws that have been on the books since the 1800s, the state has to decide on its rules for a presidential election by election day. once election day passes, the state legislature or anybody else has no more authority to change those rules. all that's left to do after election day is determine the winner based on the votes that were cast by election day. >> all right. what about michigan and pennsylvania and any other state in terms of what their operative laws allow them to do in case of their elector selection?

>> all that any state law or federal law allows a state to do is count the popular votes and determine the allocation of the electoral votes based on the popular vote winner. >> but what about picking the electors so that i pick you, and i say no "t." you know you're my guy. go in there and vote the way we want you to, not according to the vote. we think the vote was messed up. can you do that? faithless? >> no. the presidential electors were nominated by the parties in advance of the election, and whichever candidate gets the most popular votes -- and this is in all 50 states and the district of columbia -- whichever candidate gets most popular votes, their nominees for the electoral college are appointed. and the state legislature cannot change that after the fact under the constitution or under federal law. >> but isn't it true that hillary clinton had a couple of people go faithless and not vote for her as they were supposed to? >> right. so in most states, there are laws on the books that require

presidential electors to vote for the winner of the popular vote in their state and have rules that if somebody tries to deviate from that, tries to be faithless, they automatically lose their position in the electoral college. there have, from time to time, been a handful of electors who have deviated from the popular vote anyway. but very, very small numbers. in most states, it's not even possible, and it's never been remotely close to affecting a presidential election result, nor would it be close this year given the margins. >> five broke from clinton, two from trump. it didn't change the results, but it did make the parties tighten their process to only loyalists. but the loyalism is going to be a problem. that's why he was inviting their people there. what is the net effect of all this? is it just noise in your opinion? do you really believe that trump is completely impotent because obviously he doesn't think he is, right? he wouldn't be inviting these people to the white house, or

would he? do you think -- let's put on your political hat for just a second, not just your legal hat. would he want to make this show today, get big mouths like me to talk about it, just to mess with us, just to make people pay for him losing with chaos and anxiety and uncertainty and inaction during a pandemic? could this just be for effect? >> it could. i don't know if the president thinks that this is a viable option. but the fact is it's not, right? the popular vote will decide and has decided the winner of the presidential election and all of the president's efforts to try to incite state legislatures or anybody else to violate the law, they're not going to work. and if somebody were to try to take him up on that offer, it would fail. there are protections in state law, in federal law, and in the constitution to prevent that sort of overruling of election results. so i think it's very wise that the state legislators have, you

know, declined the president's invitation to break the laws of the nation and, you know, act counter to the very principles of american democracy. >> you're sure that there's nothing in pennsylvania or michigan law that would allow a legislature to make a change in terms of who their electors go to that would be in opposition to the vote total? >> there is nothing in the law of any state or the laws of the federal government that would allow a state legislature to change the rules of the election after election day. they cannot change the result of the 2020 election anymore than they can change the result of the 1920 election or the 1820 election. >> i guess what he's going to ask them to do is to mess with certification. that's the only thing he can do because once it's certified, their hands are tied the way you're talking about. but the operative effect is certification, to get them to throw out the ballots before. that's complicated because they'll have to show cause, and right now you saw even the michiganders today said, we

haven't seen any proof of anything. thank you very much, counselor. appreciate you laying it out. >> thank you. >> as a said at the top of the show, a second son of president trump is now covid-positive. don junior. another big name, but we're not worried about the big names because big names get good health care, and unless they're in extremis, they're going to be okay, god willing. but there are hundreds of thousands of new cases and there are a lot of people who can't get access to care and check a lot of risk boxes. dr. sanjay gupta is here. he just did an exclusive interview with dr. birx of the white house coronavirus task force. how does she see our next few steps? the good doctor on a friday night. you can't beat that. so wrap up a cozy casper mattress and pillows, soft percale sheets, even glow, our magical light for better sleep. shop the black friday sale and save up to 30% today at casper.com even glow, our magical light for better sleep. shower your pets with gifts and goodies. this week at petsmart.

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the covid cases higher, faster every day. no, this wasn't expected. no, this isn't the way it goes. no, it's just not about it being the fall or people going back to school. it's about us. 184,000 people infected today alone. i keep saying the president's son, donald trump jr., got it. why? i don't want him to be sick. i hope he's fine. i hope his family is fine. person animus is their thing, not mine. but what a metaphor. he can't even keep his own family safe. the white house is a micro cluster. let's bring in dr. sanjay gupta. you know, there is a feeling out there this is the way it goes, doc. this is what happens. we knew this would happen. it will be okay. it goes up and it goes down. it happens everywhere. what do you do with that nonchalance? >> yeah, i mean this is one of those things where people thought there was an inevitability about this. there's no question it's a contagious virus, but we've known from the start, chris, how

to best protect ourselves. we've seen examples of that all over the world. we've seen examples of that in this country even, places where the transmission really spiked. people took action, and they brought that curve down. so that wasn't a vaccine or some sort of new therapeutic. it was just these basic public health actions. but i share your perspective. the white house is supposed to be one of the most protected houses. they had testing. they had all the resources and stuff. but if you don't do the basics, all that other stuff's not going to matter. we're seeing that over and over again. like you, i think don junior is early 40s. i hope he does well. he should statistically do well. but this is not a virus you want, and this could have been avoided. >> it's interesting, you know, his girlfriend got it and it took him actually a long time to get it. so hopefully he's strong. he's got his resistance. it's everybody else we've got to worry about. how did you find the doctor in your interview? what was your perception of mood and tone?

>> that's a good question. she's very careful, question. she's very careful as you know, and she's -- she's cautious. i think that she's had a tough time with all this. i mean she was doing daily briefings up until april. the last briefing before yesterday was on july 8th. she essentially said that she was not going to sit there and listen to dr. scott atlas anymore because she fundamentally disagreed with his approach to just about everything, especially his approach to herd immunity. so, you know, she took her show on the road and was out there sort of doing her thing. we talked about a lot of different things, but one of the things i really drilled down on her with, chris, was something you and i have been talking about a lot -- testing. what's the role of testing? what's the value of testing? where did we go right? where did we go wrong on testing? chris, listen to what she said. >> was there ever a strategic decision not to test as much? >> i think there was not --

there was not a strategic disease not to test. there was a strategic decision to test more until a particular time frame in the late summer when you saw the cdc guidance change to symptomatic testing. and i really -- from the -- i can't tell you how strongly i believe that symptomatic testing and contact tracing is only -- well, is less than half of the equation. and unless you get the other half of the equation, you're not going to stop community spread. >> it's interesting. what did you take -- >> i don't know if you caught that in there. >> what did you take? >> what i took is she basically kind of admitted that, you know, they tried to increase testing for a period of time, and then it got to late summer, and they basically sort of abandoned the idea of increasing testing at that point. the cdc came out with that pretty spurious guidance, which they then retracted, that said the only people that need to be tested are symptomatic people. we all knew that was nonsense at that point because so much of

the spread, so much of the spread of the pandemic in this country was coming from people who didn't have symptoms. >> right. >> they didn't know they had the virus. they had no symptoms, and yet they were still spreading. why wouldn't you test them? that's how you gain control of a pandemic. you know, what ambassador birx basically said is there came a time when she just fundamentally disagreed with what the cdc had recommended at that point. that's a huge issue, chris. there's going to be a lot of time to reflect, but that may have been one of the most pivotal mistakes in this entire thing when they decided to pull back on testing, at least for a period of time. >> also e plains a little bit of the nonchalance about schools. that helped them sell people short on schools. what about the vaccine and pfizer filing for emergency use? i would assume that that is a no-brainer, but what is the actual process and the chance that they get it?

>> well, i'm very optimistic about this, chris. i'll preface by saying nobody has really seen the data except for this independent committee. it's now being submitted to the fda. but if it is what they say it is, i mean, chris, this is -- this is good news. i mean let me show you the calendar. so the eua, the emergency use authorization, that's been applied for today. keep in mind, i mean, you know, we just got the sequence for this virus middle of january. so that's record, record speed. if all goes as planned, this committee is going to start looking at the data tonight. you know, certainly right away. and by december 10th, they feel like this advisory committee will be able to convene, discuss the data, and maybe even that day, i'm talking december 10th, they could grant this emergency use authorization, at which point the vaccine, which has already been manufactured, tens of millions of doses, will start being distributed to states. there's one more committee that's got to meet that basically is the who, what, where committee. who's going to get the vaccine?

what vaccine in case there's more than one at that point? and where is it going to go? but, chris, by mid-december, certainly before christmas, the first people for the first time outside of a clinical trial could start receiving this vaccine, the first shot. it's two shots. second shot probably first week of january. it takes about seven days after that to actually consider yourself immunized. so beginning of next year, chris, we could have the first immunized people by vaccine in this country. >> when do you have people vaccinated enough so that masks disappear from our streets? >> well, you know, i think that's going to be some time. i mean we started doing the math. we can show you the production of vaccines. so 40 million doses as secretary azar has said will probably be available by the end of this year, okay? two doses per person. so that would be 20 million people. if you do the math on that, you get 150 million doses by the end of march, 75 million people.

that's not enough obviously to consider the country sort of protected. you really need to get into the 60% to 70% range. >> you're not even close. you're not even close until the middle of the summer. >> yeah. i think it's going to be middle of summer or even early fall before you really get to that point. and then even then, chris, for a period of time, there may still be recommendations on masks in public gatherings. larger public gatherings will start to become more and more common. but for a period of time, it may sort of be this risk mitigation. if you're considered high risk, you haven't been vaccinated for some reason, you may be someone who still wants to wear a mask. you may be in situations where people around you are wearing masks for a period of time. but i think by the time we get to fall of next year, i do think that we're going to have a much greater sense of normalcy. i think, you know, there's people, depending on your assessment of risk and how your tolerance of risk, there are people who will still take

measures. you see that in asian countries as you have certain viral outbreaks, as we get back into flu season of next year, you may see masks coming out again. maybe they don't go away completely, but it's going to be a much, much different position. >> you want to hear a dream i had about this? i was figuring -- >> i don't want to hear any of your dreams, chris. >> i had a dream -- >> you're going with this. >> i had a dream that -- >> i tried to talk you off this. >> listen. you'll like this. coop and i were in some kind of sandstorm in the middle east. we were covering conflict. and i said to him, man, we needed masks, you know, because of the sandstorm. and i used to have like five masks on me at a time. do you remember those days? and he was like, yeah, we had masks all the time. and you came in and had masks for us. i said, why do you have extra masks? and you said, because i'm the

good doctor. but someday, someday, god willing, we'll be in a situation where we need a mask, and biel ha we'll have to think back to what we lived through here. dr. gupta, have a good weekend. >> i'm bringing these to your dreams. >> thank you very much. you are welcome anytime. all right. we began the year with a pandemic. we're nearing the end of it with case counts higher than ever because we have not gotten it done. and one reason for that -- and it's a big reason -- has been the president. and i believe it cost him the election. now, dan rather has been an observer of our history and our culture for a long time. he is a journalist who will be remembered as long as we care about media and free press. how does he see where we are? how does he see where we'll be? powerful perspective. he has it. i can't even say it. next. with unitedhealthcare mede advantage plans, you can take advantage of free eye exams

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are things as crazy as we think they are?

is it more crazy than ever? does it mean we'll never be back to anything that we think is normal? let's talk to someone who's watching and knows what happens and why. icon, dan rather, good to see you, brother. i hope you and the family are well. >> good to see you. thank you very much, chris. >> i really don't have questions. i just want to hear where your head is. how do you see how we have gotten to this point? and what are your questions about where we go from here? >> well, let's get to the heart of the matter. that, what's happening now, in what should be the transition period between one president to another is bigger than the election it actually started well before that. with reality. what president trump has done, everything, you know, ripping children from their parents to stoking racism.

constant, relentless attacks on the press. but, there's something deeper and darker going on here, in this transition period. and that is, that president trump is attacking the urban votes. keep in mind, the votes where -- where there's a large percentage of hispanics, browns, blacks, asians, in the cities. now, this is -- this is a form of racism and you used a phrase, early in the broadcast that, with donald trump, it's always about color and that's what this is about. this is contrary to the whole founding of the country and everything that we aspire to be and not judging people on the basis of their race. but that's exactly what -- what's going on. on the other hand, the important thing and it's easy to lose sight of it with all this trump propaganda. that these weak thrashings of a president who has been defeated.

and the center has held. things are not on the saddle. the extremes are not taking over. joe biden is going to become president. and i know a lot of people who don't believe this and some people who don't want to believe it. but i do think there is a chance of a restart with -- with -- with a new president biden. with the senate, who knows what some republican senators are going to do? it's still up in the air, whether republicans are going to be in control or not. depending what happens with georgia. we do have to ask ourselves a question. so much poison put into our political body that the red, beating heart of america is still very strong but we have to look to the future and ask ourselves. is what's going on now, has it laid a template for some future president to say, well, donald trump, trying to steal an election. he wasn't successful but we can take what he's done. i'm -- i'm very much concerned

about that, as you know, chris, we've talked about it before. that i am an optimist, by experience and by nature and i am optimistic about the future. but we have to understand that what we have here in the united states a democracy based on the principles set forth in the constitution. it's a social compact that is committed to rule of law, decency, kindness, and respect for one another. right now, our institutions are holding. the process are holding. we had a very honest election. whether we can hold firm with that going into the future, given what we've been through the last four -- four years, remains an open question. >> what about the media? what should we do more? what should we do less, in terms of lesson learned? >> well, we should keep on doing our job. there was a good example today in the press room, when the cnn reporter said to the press spokesman. the press spokesman said i don't

take questions from activists. the reporter, and i give her a high mark, stood her ground and said i'm not an activist. i'm trying to do my job. and the great jake tapper said, later, this reporter is not an activist, she is a reporter for truth and facts. i give the media a pretty good grade. we certainly made mistakes. but i think, overall, the media has done its job. it's very important we continue to do that job awhich includes asking all the tough questions for joe biden when he becomes president, which he will. >> kaitlan collins is great. going to have to search for role models. my generation did not. you had the respect of my father because of how you did the job and you showed me an anchor can bring integrity to any kind of coverage. whether it's weather, whether it's law, whether it's famine,

everything can be done with integrity. have a good weekend and god bless the family. dan rather. >> be well. we'll be right back.

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thank you for watching on a friday night. a special treat, of course, is the big show. "cnn tonight" with its star, d lemon. >> the big show. i like that. that's good. you're right about that. >> so, what are you supposed to make of a situation, when the expert says these legislatures can't change the law after election day, they can't change the vote? but the president is still reaching out, inviting them to the white house, and wanting rudy to give them a sell. >> no, he just wants to be nice. there's no ulterior motive to that. >> but, i'm saying, what are we supposed to make of what's possible? >> what's possible with what? there's no changing. i mean, in the court of public opinion, he may -- i don't know if he is going to change anyone outside of his -- the people who are very strongly connected to him and support him. everybody else sees what's