i am chris cuomo and welcome to "primetime." here's the fact. trump is the least of our problems. he is a simple study at this point. trump is toxic, period. sure he's going to go out with a bang in trying to blow up as much as he can. he is absolutely trying to make nothing better, despite the fact that america is in a time of abject crisis. he knows this. he doesn't care. so he's not working on the pandemic that is worse than ever, that he's not making a deal happen on relief when more people are struggling to put food on the damn table than at any time in this country since my parents were babies during the great depression. trump is so far gone that i cannot in good conscious play the substance of a 46 minute spiel that he spewed tonight. it is lies and ugly suggestions that have a basis in nothing but

division and malice. it is the spiel. it is a con. only to benefit his own coffers as followers continue to donate for a cause for an alleged billionaire, despite the fact that that cause is already over. but, again, trump, i argue to you, is the least of our problems. my focus tonight with you is on those who remain, those are empowered his deception. whose silence should deafen all ears craving decency. the gop is no more. you are nothing but retrumplicans now. if i'm wrong, where have you been for a month? trump has never produced a shred of proof of any suggestion, and

you know it. rudy, the other guess jesters. no republican in charge says differently. and you know it. the guy you put in place at the federal level to secure the federal election says there was no substantial fraud. even bill barr. an attorney general that will be remembered for his bending over backwards to protect the president, even he says the election should stand. and what do we get from you? instead of echoing the obvious, you join trump in tearing down those who dare to defy. but it is you, men and women, who are in trouble. you have traded loyalty to oath and office to fealty to a toxic

man. who am i talking about? you got mcconnell. you got mccarthy, of course. that's specific examples. marco rubio, senator from florida. he sounded the sirens during the campaign. remember when he looked at you and talked about the great american of donald trump. >> a con artist is about to take over the republican party and the conservative movement and we have to put a stop to it. donald trump is a con artist. >> i will never allow a con artist to take control of the party of lincoln and reagan. >> who knew it would be far from his lowest moments? never say never. rubio has proven to be every bit of small as trump suggested by calling him little marco. he quotes the bible all the time, but never speaks truth to power. senator cruz urging the supreme court to help overturn biden's victory. he offers no solid basis. this is about the loose ground

of an awkward appeal to trumpers who, by the way, will never accept you. the chairman of the homeland security committee, senator ron johnson, urging the attorney general to show everybody, ready, show everybody your evidence there was no mass fraud. are you serious? senator, please show us evidence that you are not a fool. let's make this easy. how about asking trump for the evidence that there is fraud? none of them has even asked ever. we know why. they know there is no proof, and they know that it is nothing to do with the truth for trump or for them. you want the truth of how they would see this situation? just change an r to a d and go back four years. listen to what the person steering what was the republican party, the head of the rnc, ron

mcdaniel, said about exactly what she's selling right now. recount efforts in michigan by jill stein. she was the green party candidate back then. our friends at cnn's k file, they find you when you defy, and they dug this up. >> in our state, about 1% of the vote is now going to come from michigan taxpayers up to $2 million just so that we can do a recount that will not change anything and she has not shown any fraud or inconsistencies with our election system. it is just something she thinks we need to do. we have integrity in our system. the votes were certified on monday. there has been no evidence of any election issues, fraud or hacking. i think this is a wasted effort. i think it is unfortunate that she's putting the voters of michigan through this process that i'm confident that in the end donald trump will remain the

victor in michigan. >> what's changed? just her interests, not the circumstances. not a shred of proof. that's why she and the others are retrumplicans. shame on you. trump's disgraced former national security adviser is now openly encouraging the president to declare martial law and hold a new election. the tweet is here from flynn. how do republicans respond to this? silence. the suggestion of a coup, silence. overthrowing democracy is now patriotic? oh, vaunted protectors of the flag. be honest and know this. the only flag you have waived for the last four years has been white, a sign of simple surrender. and look where it got you. sydney powell, trump lawyererish kicked off the team now urging georgia, don't vote. protest the state's november

election results. another trump loyalist, lynn wood joining her, rallying the crowd to chant lockup the republican governor who certified biden's victory there. now what are you going to do? you see, when you stand for nothing, your party will fall when faced with anything. and that's what we are seeing in realtime. but this is no time, just to point out the obvious about their problems. there must be light in the darkness. and there is a chance for crisis to allow both parties to show their best. when times are at their worst, people pay attention and hope for the best. what will we see? history gives us hope. there was division when fdr faced the depression. the new deal was not an easy sell. there was a lot of rejection of the new deal. how did fdr rally the country and thus its representatives? a reminder that government's job

boils down to pretty simple securing of four freedoms for the person people, illustrated beautifully by normal rockwell and they live throughout history. everybody thinks that's lincoln a standing up, right? freedom from want. freedom from fear. just the first two alone demand immediate action. this country has not faced fear or want the way it will over the next few months. not in a generation. the head of the cdc is finally using his voice, warning that the darkest months in u.s. health history are coming. we just surpassed 100,000 current covid hospitalizations, highest number since the pandemic began. today we broke another record for deaths. the highest number of a new number of deaths in a day. more than 2,600 lives lost. the united states could be close to 450,000 deaths before

february. we can't do better than this? oh, don't worry. there is a vaccine. when? not for months. and who told you a vaccine is a cure. do you get sick, you get the vaccine and you're better? that's not how it works. we need to rally to the remedies that we control. and our biggest need is leadership. congress must shake free from trump trauma. remember what once inspired you to seek office. do it now. i know you watch the show. thank you. so allow me to say to you directly, what will you do now? not weeks from now. the answer may define how you will be republicaned. remember this. i guarantee you people like me doing this job all over this country will never let people forget who stepped up and who

fell back. now is the time. the challenge is great. the stakes are high, and you are aware. for me and my audience, there is only one direction. it's to take it on. so let's get after it. chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta joins us now. you are finally hearing from the head of the cdc what he should have been saying, frankly, for months. we got the politics but there is a time for bravery. he is now saying the darkest period in u.s. health history may be in the coming months. have you ever heard anything like that? and how might it take shape? >> well, you know, i haven't heard anything like that. frankly, he's comparing what is happening now to what happened 100 years ago. and, you know, we're obviously a very different society now. we have icus, we have hospital care, we have vaccines on the horizon. yet, these death rates are approximating what we saw 100 years ago and that's what he's

reacting to. these numbers, chris, we have seen a million cases, roughly, a week of new coronavirus cases. so it's hard to fathom, and we know what trends after that, the hospitalizations which are now over 100,000 and then a few weeks later the deaths. we don't know where this is going to peak at this point. if you look at the models, they say it peaks at the end of this year, beginning of next year, but the real question is how long does it say there then? how long does it plateau? chris, i got to tell you, i dug into these models closely and where are contingent on this idea there will be statewide mandates that either stay in place or go into place over the next couple of months. if those things don't happen, the number of people they project could die is 650,000 by march 1st. that just gives you an idea.

it is like that boiling frog. we get used to hearing the numbers and hospitalizations and hearing about ambulance systems that are starting to fall apart and field hospitalizations in rhode island, high death rates in wisconsin, surge capacity in california. i don't know how you could describe this as any worse, but it still can get worse than this. >> he's makiing an appeal. there is one basis of pushback for people. you mentioned it early on as a reason of concern. people will say, hey, look, i get it. people are getting sick. nobody dies. nobody dies. look at the health rates per case, per capita. it is so small. yeah, 230,000, 250,000, 300,000, that's a lot. but look at how many other things we ignore in the society. they kill tons of people,

cigarettes, booze. but now you want to shut down the economy that nobody dies from when you look at it from a big scale. what do you say to that? >> well, i mean, they're wrong. that's what i say. first of all, this could be the second leading cause of death in this country as things are shaping up now. it could be that only heart disease would lead to more deaths. this could surpass that, chris, for a disease that didn't even exist really a year ago. so that's part of it. the other part of it is that the vast majority of these deaths are preventable. the vast majority. we have gone through this so many times comparing this to other countries around the world. they don't have a therapeutic or a vaccine we don't have.

but their death rates are a minuscu minuscule. people die of all these other things. these are these deaths of despair even prior to this pandemic. what we're seeing here is an unmasking of all these terrible things. we are a more vulnerable country because we have so many pre-existing conditions and comorbidities. but it is an incredible source of frustration because the numbers we know on the screen every day, they didn't need to happen, the vast majority of them. i hesitate when i say that because i talked to so many families that have lost loved ones. but what can you call it at this point. these are stupid deaths as the doctors without borders call them. so that's what i tell them. >> we have another big, big challenge. people the vaccine as an

unqualified good. i don't. they're not going to have enough of the vaccine. starting with hospital workers and long term care elderly recipients. but hospitals in what areas? what kind of hospital workers? which long term care facilities. the rich ones? based on color? based on class? these are big choices that we won't be able to monitor. am i getting it right or wrong? >> this is going to be a resourced challenged distribution process. this is something that everybody wants or the vast majority of people want and there is not enough. so how this is going to be handled is -- i mean, it is unprecedented what we're going through right now. i hope many of the things you're mentioning in terms of the institutional structural biases,

i hope they don't perm nate into the distribution of this vaccine, but i think it is a real concern. i'm curious to see what happens in the u.k. over this next week. hiccups that maybe we couldn't even anticipate. but you're right. i will say this. the states are going to have to make some decisions in terms of triaging these vaccines. we know that. but health care workers across the board, there is 21 million in various locations. not all of them are the same in terms of their risk for covid. i'm a health care worker. i'm a neurosurgeon. i don't primarily take care of covid patients. i have colleagues that do. they're at the highest risk. so these types of triage decisions will be made not only at the state level but at the institutional level and perhaps even within these long-term care facilities as well. it is not going to be perfect, chris. this issue of as quickly as this

vaccine is going to be manufactured, it is going to be distributed. if you get a batch wrong because there is 20 to 25 quality control checks they have to go through, let's say one doesn't make it, well, all of a sudden, you will be even farther behind. there will be stutter starts here and there may be some inequities that hopefully get addressed quickly. right now as has been the case for the last nine months there isn't a national leadership here. there is no national plan. people are sort of left to scrap and figure it out for themselves, beg and cajole and lead for these vaccines and figure out how to best distribute them. >> it is no way to do it. the virus hurts the most vulnerable and the system tends to not put them first either. we'll stay on it. that's what our job is. dr. sanjay gupta, thank you very much. >> you got it. all right. so the obvious became news again when bill barr came out to

definitively say as the attorney general of the united states, bears no proof of widespread election fraud. i know. i saw the tweets. they tried to clean it up. not yet. but if any comes, he'll tell always of us. but he doesn't have any. that's the point. when the president's own attorney general undercuts his claims, shouldn't he be taken seriously? now we're trump is upset. barr may lose his job. new developments on that. and we will take it to one of barr's predecessors, alberto gonzalez next. ♪ chicago!

okay, so, magnificent mile for me! i thought i was managing my moderate to severe crohn's disease. until i realized something was missing me. you okay, sis? my symptoms were keeping me from really being there for my sisters. so i talked to my doctor and learned that's us. (reacting to boarding announcement) humira is for people who still have symptoms of crohn's disease after trying other medications. the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief in as little as 4 weeks. and many achieved remission that can last. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, ...have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb,

hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. be there for you and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. ♪and if we win, we get to tell you how liberty mutual customizes car insurance so you only pay for what you need. isn't that what you just did? service! ♪ stand back, i'm gonna show ya ♪ ♪ how doug and limu roll, ya ♪ ♪ you know you got to live it ♪ ♪ if you wanna wi... [ music stops ] time out! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ you work hard for your money. stretched days for it. juggled life for it. took charge for it. so care for it.

look after it. invest with the expertise of j.p. morgan, either with an advisor or online, through chase. after all, it's yours. chase. make more of what's yours.

responds to snoring- automatically. so no hiding under your pillow. or opting for the couch. your best sleep. all night. every night. during the tempur-pedic smart sleep event, save up to $500 on adjustable mattress sets. what would have thunk it. bill bend over backwards barr finds himself in hot water for

telling the truth, for not backing the flood of b.s. over voter fraud. officials are trying to talk a frustrated president trump out of firing bill barr. why? everybody knows what he's about. it is not loyalty. it is fealty. if you don't know what trump wants you are in and out. he o he's about himself. i don't know what his party stands for except for listening, lowering their eyes and doing what they are told. let's discuss with a man who once held bill barr's job. attorney general under george w. bush. dean, good to see you. >> chris, it is good to be back. >> so what do you think of my apprisal of what has happened to your party, a month of silence as this president, our

president, its nominee says the election was a fraud and puts up not a skcintilla of proof. i think it was on that network. about the week of the election where i said my gut, my brain, my experience tells me that joe biden won the election. and since that time, i have seen no evidence to change my position, and we now have the attorney general confirming the same thing. i also said publically that i struggled with the fact that the attorney general given recent criticism or concerns about mail-in ballots was directing people at the department of justice to do an investigation about possible mass fraud in this election. and to me, the timing was unfortunate. but i think we're in a place now where the transition is moving forward, and i think come january 20th president biden and his team will be ready to administer and govern this country, and we need him to be

ready. and i think he will be ready. >> but how we get there is predictive of where we go from there. and you have mitch mcconnell, head of the senate, obviously senior member of your party, refusing to say that biden is president-elect. other people in office will take the question. they say, well, we have to see where the litigation goes. they know it is going nowhere. in 2016, they dealt with this then in michigan and then in other states and they shot it down, the same way it is being shot down now. what does it mean to you that they refuse to state the obvious? is it just fear of this president or is your party no more? >> well, i can't speak to what the party is today. from my perspective, chris, as i just said, i think what's really important here is that the transition is moving forward. i think come january 20th, there will be a transfer of power. we will have a new president. and we will be governed by new policies. and so i think that right now,

yes, there is litigation going on. there is controversy going on, but this is going to move forward. this is the way our government and our country has operated for hundreds of years, and it will continue to move forward. i have faith and confidence that's going to happen. i have faith and confidence mcconnell will ultimately, he'll be standing up there on january 20th, i'm quite confident with that. i'm quite confident that's going to happen. and we will move forward, chris. i have to have faith in that. >> i like the confidence. i'm a friend of faith. but we have never seen anything like this before, dean. and you know that. when you were ag, controversy was you firing nine u.s. prosecutors and people saying that you were politicizing the office. i wouldn't even cover that today in this climate given what bill barr has done. things that you would be shaken in a sweat out of a nightmare just suggesting it in a dream that you might do these things. this transition was held up for

weeks with the complicity of members of your party. we have never seen anything like this. don't you think there has to be accountability for how we got here if we want to move forward in a better way? >> i think we take our lead from some of the comments from president-elect biden. i think he's looking forward. now there will be many people that want to look backwards, perhaps, you know, hold people accountable. but what's really important, chris, and i think -- i think the american people are with me on this. we need to look forward. we've got so many serious issues confronting our country, and we need to help president biden be successful in addressing those issues. and, so, again, i don't want to get so wrapped up in what's happened in the past. let's focus more on what lies in front of us and what we can do to make this a better country for everybody. >> as long as it's not predictive of the future. if this culture of opposition, why i call the republicans -- look, i got republicans in my

family, so it is not about a personal beef. but i say retrumplicans because they won't say anything unless trump says it's okay. why do they think they will make a deal. 200,000 plus dead, the worst unemployment we have seen in generations. mcconnell came back from break, he cut the deal in half, dean. i don't see why we believe they will do big better than they have done that gets us here. >> when you are president of the united states, that's tremendous power. it is the most powerful position in the world. donald trump will no longer be president of the united states. he won't in my judgment have the same level of influence. and i'm hopeful that sound, mature leaders in the republican party are going to step up and do the responsible things to help the american people, to work with the democrats, not compromise their ideals and values but to find solutions for the problems that confront our

society. >> i'd just like to know what those ideals and values are in light of what they have been complicit with by being so quiet. let me ask you a legal question. self-pardon. there is no guidance. we have never seen it before. it's been in literature but not tested in courts. what would you think if president trump self-pardoned? >> chris, there is nothing in the constitution that prohibits a self-pardon. our framers clearly understood how to limit that pardon power because they limited it to federal offenses. here you have an action that's within -- it is not a judicial action. some people say how can a man be a judge in his own case? this is not a judicial act. the act of granting a pardon is an executive action. it is in article two of the constitution. so from my perspective, even though i may not like it, and you are right, no courts have ever ruled on this, i think he can make a very strong argument that the president of the united states can, in fact, issue a self-pardon.

>> you think it is a good thing to do. even if you have the right, is it right? >> absolutely not, i don't. but i do believe that what the framers intended that were for a president that does something so heinous as perhaps a self-pardon that the remedy was to impeach him and to remove him from office. that's where i think the framers intended to respond to a self-pardon or other high crimes and misdemeanors. >> alberto gonzalez, dean, thank you very much for coming to us. the best to your family for the holidays. i hope that your faith is rewarded with what we find in our future. >> it's got to be chris. appreciate it. thanks. >> all right. the president's only niece warned us do not give my uncle four more years. the scariest part, though, to me, is she says, oh, you think this was the bad part? no. the worst is yet to come. why? mary trump says she's got the answer because she's working on a new book that examines exactly

this. let's get a little insight next. w and existing customers can get our best smartphone deal. it's historic. that is historic. which means... i'm making history, right? yea, i don't know if i'd exactly sa- wow. me, dave brown. existing customer who got the greatest deal in history. just like every other customer gets... oh that's cool too. it's not complicated. at&t is making history. everyone gets our best smartphone deals. ♪ ♪ you're all, you're all i need ♪ ♪ you're all, you're all i need ♪ ♪ as long as i got you then baby ♪ ♪ you know that you've got me, oh! yea...♪ ♪

now roomba vacuums exactly where you need it. alexa, tell roomba to vacuum in front of the couch. and offers personalized cleaning suggestions for a clean unique to you and your home. roomba and the irobot home app. only from irobot. yit's more than just a house. home app. [music playing throughout] it's a kitchen that's been passed down, along with the recipes. three generations on the wall... with room to grow. the rhythm of home...

the smells, the sounds, the flow... the feeling of owning a home is not black or white. citi is working across our business to make home ownership a reality for more black americans. ♪ you're still the one ♪ that i love to touch ♪ still the one ♪ and i can't get enough ♪ we're still having fun, ♪ and you're still the one applebee's 2 for $20. now that's eating good in the neighborhood.

the team's been working around the clock.wire, we've had to rethink our whole approach. we're going to give togetherness. logistically, it's been a nightmare. i'm not sure it's going to work. it'll work. i didn't know you were listening.

so now what? when trump is gone, isn't the problem over? i don't think so. i think the people who remain are the problem. but now i have another take for you. even as the biden transition is underway, the president's desperate cling to power is actually having an effect on our political fault lines. and my next guest says that's what you need to look at. it is not just about if trump got another four years, but as a clinical psychologist who delved into his psyche and understanding the effects that he can have, now that he's on his way out, mary trump still doesn't like what she says -- what she sees because of what the impact could be even after he is gone. how so?

mary trump, president's niece, author of qualify too much and never enough" has a book coming out about exactly this. the book is called "the wrec reckoning." >> hi, chris. yeah. i wish it had been the election. but unfortunately two things. one, we didn't get an immediate result which we should have been prepared for, but weren't. and secondly biden didn't win in a landslide which is really what we needed in order to repudiate donald, his administration and all of his enablers. so what's happened now is it's given him an opportunity to continue to sew division, to continue to act as if there was

discrepancies with the vote tally. and because republican leadership refuses to take a stand and speak the truth, donald has even more of an opportunity to, you know, stoke his base and sew division among us. and it is very, very dangerous. >> i would like to counter your case. i could argue that biden has the same electoral margin that trump called a landslide. he had the most people ever come out for him in history. but i agree with you because the second most votes ever went to trump. and they did well on the congressional side. you can look at that either way saying people who are still having misgivings about democrats still voted against trump. but how is the worst yet to come? >> that is going to depend largely on donald's post inauguration life. it's going to depend on how the

biden administration or at least biden's attorney general handles the path what may or may not have happened in the last four years, particularly in the 79 days between the election and the inauguration. and it's going to depend in part on, you know, whether or not we're going to see state charges. i don't hold out much hope for the republican party, which is why i didn't mention them. i think they're going to continue to do what they believe is in their best interest, which for them is always clinging to power no matter what it might do to the rest of the country or to our democracy. >> biden has signalled he doesn't want to give any energy to scrutinizing trump. on the state side, we will have to see. your uncle the other day said to a crowd, we're trying to get four more years right now. if not, i'll see you in four

years. >> i think that's a ploy. that's a means to get people to continue to support him financially. it's a way to get people to keep coming to his rallies and to, you know, i believe he's trying to counter program the inauguration of president biden. so i don't put much stock in that very fars reasvarious reas. i think donald will be too busy dealing with lawsuits and dealing with those potential state charges. >> he's at $170 million now. he could use it for whatever he wants unless the donation is over $5,000 and i don't know how many of those he has. we'll see what they disclose. but it seems like his help me fight this election may be help me fight for my own better future. >> it may, indeed. and, you know, i think it is

disgraceful, of course. but the people who support him are throwing money at him willingly. and i honestly don't know what to say to them. that's their choice. >> you don't think he'll run again? >> i don't. i don't think he's going to be able to. i think that he's much more likely to take the position of spoiler because he lost so decisively and because he cannot bear the thought of losing, he's going to put considerable energy, at least as long as he's able to into delegitimizing joe biden's win and his administration, which, again, is terrible for our country. and i think at that point we need to look at the republicans in power and, you know, lay the blame at their feet at that point because they would be in a position to stop this insanity and thus far they seem not to be

willing to do that because they know they need donald's base. >> the retrumplicans. is the worst just a frenzy of weird pardons and a self-pardon. do you think he has the power to tell people to resist the inauguration? >> i think we have some glimpse of what he's capable of in what's going on down in georgia. an election official down in georgia who from what i understand is a republican has made a plea to donald and republican leadership to stop sewing doubts about that election because it's putting people's lives in danger. so what does donald do? he doubles down. he doesn't care. you know, he's going to do whatever he needs to do to change the subject, to keep people on his side, to keep people believing that he actually won an election that he lost by at least six million votes. so we need to be on our guard

and continue not to put anything past him because, yes, the pardons are demoralizing. they're a disgrace. and his, you know, attempt to preemptively partdon and his children and himself, we'll deal with that when the time comes. i'm much more worried about what's going on behind the scenes. we need to be vigilant. >> get the book out. you may want to rush it because we're living that consequence right now. mary trump, be well. thank you for the insight. >> thank you, chris. >> all right. a word for you here about a cnn special event tomorrow night. you're getting an upgrade. cuomo "primetime" is off. jake tapper will interview president-elect joe biden and vice president-elect kamala harris. you do not want to miss that. i won't be on but i'll be watching tomorrow night 9:00

eastern of course only on cnn. all right. we're going to take a break. when we come back, time to test congress. okay? they got to step up. we've never had it this bad. where is the relief? what's going on with the stimulus? how will it be different this time? and by that i mean better, not worse. a big question that you may not have heard answered yet but you will now, hey, we learned last night that a big bunch of the money they're offering their new plan is money from the last plan that was never spent. why? a house powerhouse just took on trump's treasury secretary. you know her as member of congress katie porter here next. we're all finding ways to keep moving. but how do we make sure the direction we're headed is forward?

at fidelity, you'll get the planning and advice to prepare you for the future, without sacrificing the things that are important to you today. we'll help you plan for healthcare costs, taxes and any other uncertainties along the way. because with fidelity, you can feel confident that the only direction you're moving is forward. tonight...i'll be eating cheesy cauliflower pizza because with fidelity, you can feel confident with extra broccolini. my tuuuurrrrn! tonight...i'll be eating cheesy cauliflower pizza and yummy broccolini! (doorbell rings) thanks. (doorbell rings) thank you. ♪ is that my leotard? no. yes... ehh, you can keep it.

now, braava jet mops right where you need it with an adjustable precision jet spray and an advanced pad system. and offers personalized cleaning suggestions unique to your home. braava jet m6 and the irobot home app. only from irobot.

no uh uh, no way come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card. satchel paige was still dominating batters at 59.at 52 celia cruz was still winning grammys at 77 john wheeler illuminated our ideas of the universe at 70 and roger crouch was 56 when he first went into space

your best is yet to come worst u.s. health crisis is coming that they have ever seen says the head of the cdc. worst number of hungry americans

since the great depression. now congress is just talking about helping for the first time in months. they haven't met since october on this at the top level. at the same time we're learning how badly the last covid relief plan got screwed up. $455 billion wasn't spent. good reason for that. the trump administration gets its way, it is going to be harder for the biden administration to spend it. that's why the current treasury secretary found himself answering questions like this today. >> i'm reading aloud now from section 4027 of the cares act. on or after january 1, 2026 any funds that are remaining shall be transferred to the general fund. in other words, sent back to the treasury. is it currently the year 2026?

yes or no? >> of course it is not 2026. how ridiculous to ask me that question and waste our time. >> well, secretary mnuchin, i think it is ridiculous that you are play acting to be a lawyer. >> actually, i had plenty of lawyers at the department who advised me. >> are you, in fact, a lawyer? >> i do not have a legal secretary mnuchin, you are trying to tell chairman powell to send over any remaining funds right now, and you're planning, falsely in my opinion, that that is what the law says, and you aren't disagreeing with someone who is a lawyer -- >> are you a lawyer? >> yes, she is. she is a lawyer, law professor at usc, irvine. here's our guest now.

congresswoman, welcome back. >> thanks very much. i'm delighted to be here. >> the problem you're dealing with is they're banking on the money not being spent, so going back to him which seems to be a failure. why didn't all those billions of dollars, hundreds of billions, get spent when the need is so great? >> the explanation for that goes in the lack of oversight that was baked into some of these programs at the start. and so in this case, the money went to the treasury, the treasury transferred it to the federal reserve, and the federal reserve spent only a portion of the money. now, it's not necessarily a bad thing, because we still have a great deal of economic need and that money can be used to help businesses reopen, to rebuild customer lists, to recruit and retrain new employees. but secretary mnuchin is trying to stop that. he's trying to take the money, take it back from the federal

reserve, even as mr. powell, the chair of the federal reserve, a man not known for hyperbole, says that the economic outlook is extremely uncertain. so we need to listen to him, leave this money where it is and allow the federal reserve to step up and use that money to lend to cities and states, because they are in dire need of funds and they're the ones on the front lines of this crisis. >> i'm pointing it out because that was true then, too, right? and suffering is a coefficient of pain and time. so time has only made a lot of things worse. that's why i don't know why the money wasn't spent then, and my concern now is why should we expect any better? what reforms were in place to make sure it's more efficient and getting money to more people, and not doing the other thing we saw last time, which is giving the money to the banks who give the money to their friends in bigger businesses and not those small businesses that we need to feed in our economy

right now. >> so two different programs here. one is the federal reserve economic stabilization fund. there i have a lot of confidence in treasury appointee janet yellen. this is someone who ran the federal reserve. she is going to work very, very hard and knows every trick in the book to make sure that the federal reserve is doing its work. where we see really bad transparency problems, on one hand the federal reserve didn't spend the money. that's a problem, i agree with you, chris. but where we start with the paycheck protection program is in some ways worse. we have been crying out, my office has been pushing for transparency for this program from day one. we finally got that data yesterday, and what did we learn? we learned that paycheck protection program money designed to support and hold up the smallest businesses in our economy went to trump and kushner properties. and 600 billion of it went to

just ten -- sorry -- i want to get this right -- 600 businesses, each got $10 million. 600 businesses, each got $10 million, and yet we can't get the senate majority leader to give people to put food on the table and keep a roof over their head. >> how do you stop that from happening again in terms of who gets the money? i'm told that the problem was that the money was given to banks and for the banks to use the discretion of who to exercise unless you were taking care of any patronage or favors on the state side. so how do we not have that happen again? >> i'm a proponent of a somewhat different approach that would achieve, i think, the result we're aiming for even better. it's called the paycheck recovery act. and what it would do is use the irs as a tool, use the wage data that we already have to allow people to continue to receive their paycheck even if they're

unable to go to work or their business is shut down where they've been laid off. this would take out the middle man of the banks. it would also make sure that the government funds are going directly to support payroll, to support wages, to keep families out of food bank lines and off the streets from being homeless. so this is a much more efficient way to spend the money, ensuring those who need it get it. >> they need their relief checks, congresswoman. you got to fight for the relief checks. if it's just through the programs, all that does is isolate need but doesn't reflect the reality that so many people are fragile. and that $600, that $1200 for rent assistance, that kept a lot of people from going under. they weren't thriving, but if you neglect them and it's not in the proposal right now that's been offered up by those problem solvers or whatever they call themselves in the senate, that's going to be a problem for people. you think you can get the checks? >> i hope so.

and one of the things that's making me really frustrated right now is when i hear people talk about this as stimulus. let's be clear. it is not stimulus money. to give people money so they can feed themselves, so they can keep clothes on in the winter, so they can avoid eviction, that's not stimulus. you're absolutely right that it's not enough just to do some unemployment, it's not enough to do more with food assistance, people need that direct assistance. all of the research on this interestingly shows that direct cash money to families, allowing them to decide how to spend it, actually is the most efficient use of our tax dollars. partly because that money can't be distorted by special interests like wall street banks along the way. >> i'll tell you what, secretary mnuchin doesn't like you. and that's okay. >> that's okay, i don't like him. >> i'll tell you what, i don't know whether you like him, but

you asked him the right questions. and the way he answers them says everything about where we are right now. i hope we get to a better place. we'll see what happens with those who remain after trump is gone. congresswoman, the best to you and your family going through the holidays. katie porter, thanks for being on the show. >> thank you. we'll be right back. policy, even a term policy, for an immediate cash payment. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized that we needed a way to supplement our income. if you have one hundred thousand dollars or more of life insurance you may qualify to sell your policy. don't cancel or let your policy lapse without finding out what it's worth. visit conventrydirect.com to find out if you policy qualifies. or call the number on your screen. coventry direct, redefining insurance. humira patients,... ...this one's for you. you inspired us to make your humira experience even better... with humira citrate-free. it has the same effectiveness you know and trust, but we removed the citrate buffers, there's less liquid, and a thinner needle...

with less pain immediately following injection. ask your doctor about humira citrate-free. and you can use your co-pay card to pay as little as $5 a month. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections,... ...including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened,... ...as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems,... ...serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common... and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections,... or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. ask your doctor about humira citrate-free. the same humira you trust with less pain immediately following injection. if you can't afford your medicine, abbvie may be able to help. if you can't afford your medicine, that life of the party look walk it off look one more mile look reply all look own your look... ...with fewer lines. there's only one botox® cosmetic. it's the only one... ...fda approved...

...to temporarily make frown lines... ...crow's feet... ...and forehead lines... ...look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic, may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping, and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. so, give that just saw a puppy look. and whatever that look is. look like you... with fewer lines. see results at botoxcosmetic.com

[what's this?] oh, are we kicking karly out? we live with at&t. it was a lapse in judgment. at&t, we called this house meeting because you advertise gig-speed internet, but we can't sign up for that here. yeah, but i'm just like warming up to those speeds. you've lived here two years. the personal attacks aren't helping, karly. don't you have like a hot pilates class to get to or something? [ muffled scream ] stop living with at&t. xfinity can deliver gig to the most homes.

all right, thank you for watching, it's time for the big show. "cnn tonight" with its big star d. lemon. h >> how you doing? >> doing well. why? >> i'm so glad you said that. because you have that stock -- >> better than i deserve? i didn't say it. >> every time. every time. i heard you on the break talking with katie porter. >> katie porter is no joke. secretary mnuchin asked her if she was a lawyer today as a snarky comeback, and congresswoman porter said to me in the break without violating any confidence, she said, i didn't hear