of what a run-off is. there is no direct word translation for run-off in vietnamese. they've got their work cut out for them. >> kyung, thank you so much. thank you for joining us. "ac 360" begins right now. good evening. reality versus unreality again dominates the program tonight. first, the reality. we are now weeks or even days away from vaccinating people against coronavirus, depending how quickly the approval process moves, yet we are also now just entering the darkest moment of the pandemic. in fact, we are not even fully in it. things will get worse, according to the director of the cdc. the numbers apparently aren't yet showing the full impact of thanksgiving travel and holiday gatherings, yet already the daily death toll is stunning. right now the single-day count stands at 2,642, and that number, as you know, won't be final until the overnight hours. last night's 24-hour total was a record. 3,157. cases today topped the 14

million mark. it's taken just six days to add the latest million, yet another record day for people hospitalized for covid. more than 100,000, and with icu beds running short in this -- in his state, california's governor today announced stay-at-home orders for hard-hit areas when icu capacity drops to 15%. >> the bottom line is if we don't act now, our hospital system will be overwhelmed. if we don't act now, we'll continue to see a death rate climb. more lives lost today. we are announcing and introducing a regional stay-at-home order in the state of california. >> reporter: it's not just california. delaware announced stay-at-home orders running from december 14th through january the 11th. in other words, the holidays. arkansas recorded its highest case count of the pandemic. records as well in massachusetts. in michigan, cases are running at five times what they were at the start of october. more than 10,000 new cases today in florida. again, vaccines are coming, but

the surge is already here. that is reality. it's what democratic and republican governors are all now dealing with. it's what the incoming president and vice president say is their top priority. speaking with cnn's jake tapper for a conversation that's going to air at the top of the next hour, at 9:00 p.m. eastern time, president-elect biden spoke to the reality that we are all facing right now, and instead he offered a way out. >> it is important that we, in fact, the president and the vice president, we set the, you know, the pattern by wearing masks, but beyond that, where the federal government has authority, i'm going to issue a standing order that in federal buildings you have to be masked, and in transportation -- interstate transportation, you must be masked in airplanes and buses, et cetera. and so it's a matter of -- and i think my inclination, jake, is on the first day i'm inaugurated to say i'm going to ask the public for 100 days to mask. just 100 days to mask.

not forever. 100 days. >> the president-elect also said he will be asking dr. anthony fauci to be a chief medical adviser and part of his coronavirus team. meanwhile, in the unreality show, he's taking to his final act the current president spoke briefly in favor of a comprehensived economic relief package, but many confined his remarks to the fantasy world that he's built for himself. take a look, this is the president of the united states today sounding like an old-time flimflam man. every point he makes in the sound i'm about to show you is made up. >> mr. president, can i ask you to respond to the comments by your attorney general, who indicated he has not seen at this point any evidence of fraud, enough to overturn the election results? given that, why is now not the time to concede? >> well, he hasn't done anything, so he hasn't looked. when he looks, he'll see the kind of evidence that right now you're seeing in the georgia senate. you know, they're going through hearings right now in georgia

and they're finding tremendous volume. so they haven't looked very hard, which is a disappointment, to be honest with you because it's massive fraud. whether you go to wisconsin, where we just filed a case, or michigan or if you look at what's happening in georgia as an example or pennsylvania, if you look at nevada, which is moving along very rapidly or arizona, you saw those numbers come out yesterday. we found massive fraud. and in other states also. this is a -- probably the most fraudulent election that anyone's ever seen. >> i was going to say it would be funny if it wasn't so sad, but that's not true. it would still be sad even if it wasn't so sad. see how the president there made it sound like there was some kind of a snowball of momentum moving in his favor? things are moving quickly. basically his game is say a state, make something up, say another state, make something else up. hearings in georgia, tremendous volumes. pennsylvania and michigan. just filed a case in wisconsin.

hey, look at nevada. arizona, the numbers came out yesterday. look at georgia. the reality is there is no momentum in his favor. just the opposite, in fact. we've got the tape of what the president said at 12:39 eastern time. at 1:15 and 36 minutes -- 36 minutes later, news hit the local papers in wisconsin. its conservative majority supreme court declined to hear that case they just filed, that the president was crowing about. as for georgia, here's what the republican secretary of state there said just yesterday. >> it looked like vice president biden will be carrying georgia and he is our president-elect. we have seen no substantial changes to the results from any counties so far. and that's what we expected. >> as for michigan, pennsylvania, nevada and arizona, all those states along with wisconsin and georgia have certified their results. and, again, as attorney general barr said this week, the justice department has seen no sign of systemic fraud, and, yes, they

have been looking. we learned as well today the president sampled another dangerous flavor of unreality. speaking with senate majority leader mitch mcconnell and other aides, he brought up congresswoman-elect margery taylor green's support for the qanon conspiracy cult. a global kabul of celebrities who operate a child sex ring and drink the blood of children, which is what the nazis used to say about jews. a source familiar with the matter he said that qanon consist of people who, quote, basically believe in good government, which then reportedly led to silence in the room. white house chief of staff mark meadows was have reported to have then said he had not heard the group described as such. yeah. the president really surrounds himself with people of strong moral character who are not afraid to tell him when he's

wrong. yeah. 48 days until the president is out of office. and yet there is another corner of this unreal world to report on tonight. one in which a white house liaison to the justice department is barred from the justice department, told not to even enter the building. kaitlan collins did the reporting on this. joins us now. so what's happened with this white house liaison. >> reporter: well, this is not a well-known role, anderson, but it's critical because you act as the intermediary between the west wing and these federal agencies. so when you're not allowed in the building, it hinders your ability to be able to do that job. that's what we're told happened to this white house liaison because we're told by sources she was trying to get access to sensitive information that she is not privy to access about potential voter fraud cases that the justice department was looking at. and we're told to believe was that she wanted to share that with the white house. it's not clear because she hasn't commented and neither has the white house or the doj on this. but it did lead them to ban her from coming into the building. they told her she was not going

to have access to the building any longer, and so the white house has not commented on this, but they do seem to be responding to this because today they announced they're putting her in another position as this advisory board. so you can see there that that's where this ended up, where the white house is no longer saying that she is going to be in this role, but you've got to remember this comes after in september the white house chief of staff mark meadows emailed the heads of all of these federal agencies and said they were replacing all of the liaisons, people doing their jobs, not because of performance issues but because what it was seen as inside the white house is they wanted to put loyalists in those positions because you really can act as the white house's eyes and ears for what's going on at these agencies, given this is a west wing and a president who has this deep distrust that there is this deep state constantly working against him. and, of course, justice department has been number one on his list. but we are told she is no longer in that position, so it's not clear who is fulfilling that role at this moment. >> and president trump said today -- or wouldn't say if he had confidence in attorney

general barr. you have some reporting about their white house meeting this week. what have you learned? >> reporter: yeah, and the president chooses his words carefully. he's been asked that question a number of times throughout his time in office about certain people, and you can always tell when he's actually upset with someone. the last person i remember him doing it was with the defense secretary mark esper who, of course, was fired a week after the election. so today the president had that long pause, i'm told that came after on tuesday the president and barr had a pretty contentious meeting here at the white house after barr's comments to the associated press completely undercutting the president's arguments you were showing earlier, his claims of fraud, after he said that wasn't true, that the doj had not uncovered any evidence of that. they had this contentious exchange. of course that's raised the question by the president's closest advisers about whether or not he's going to fire the attorney general with just seven weeks left to go, and they say the president is really hesitant to fire someone, anderson, in that realm, ever since the blowback he got from firing james comey. so it's not clear if he will,

but he certainly wants to and certainly talked about doing so. >> fascinates. kaitlan collins, appreciate it. at the top of the program we played that sound president trump saying, quote, you saw the number come out yesterday. we found massive fraud. we spent the day trying to figure out what he was talking about and we couldn't. so we're happy to be joined by arizona secretary of state katie hobbs. secretary hobbs, thank you very much for joining us. do you know what the president was talking about there? >> no, we have not found any evidence of fraud here in our state. there continue to be challenges in court that have been free from evidence of fraud, and those challenges continue to be dismissed. so, no, i do not know what he's talking about. >> so the court cases that have been brought forward, they've been dismissed? >> there are two pending court cases right now. that are challenging the certification of the election that happened on monday. and we expect these to end up

the same way that the previous challenges have ended pup. >> and basically, you know, in the court challenge, i mean, i think you said they were evidence-free. they're not very detailed with any specific actually credible allegations of fraud, is that correct? >> right. and so there was some investigation of ballots that were duplicated. which are -- is done by humans. and so there were some mistakes found, which is not equivalent to fraud. this is a human process. error is sometimes inherent there. and the level that we found is not concerning at all, and nothing that would come near to changing the result of any election. >> it's so -- i mean, strange because, you know, yesterday, vice president pence swore in arizona's newest senator, mark kelly. by virtue of doing that, i assume the vice president is acknowledging that the arizona results are valid. >> well, yes. and, you know, we had our republican governor and republican attorney general

participate in the certification of the results on monday. the republican governor's office prepared that certificate of election that allowed senator kelly to be sworn in. and so, you know, things are happening the way that they're supposed to be happening. and we still have republican elected officials here continuing to cry foul and claim that there's all of this fraud that there isn't. >> did you ever expect to see a situation like -- i mean, obviously, you know, i'm not talking about just in the run-up to this election because obviously there was a lot of concern and thought about given what the president was saying what might happen afterward. but just in, you know, in our previous lives, did you ever consider this kind of scenario? >> well, i think in america we have free and fair elections. they're a cornerstone of our democracy, and in that system there is winners and losers. normally the losers accept the result and move on. and i think we sort of predicted

leading into this election with all of the misinformation that was coming out of the white house about how the election would be rigged that this was a potential outcome. certainly i think this is damaging and has far-reaching consequences beyond just this election. >> in what way? what are the far-reaching consequences? >> well, i mean, you have republicans across the country that are refusing to accept the outcome and continue to delegitimize the i death ntegri our elections, which the officials and experts have said there is no evidence of widespread fraud. and there are systems in place that check at every place logic inaccuracy, testing of machines, post-election audits that test for those things, and those things have happened. and we have elected leaders who are fueling these conspiracy theories and refusing to accept the results and continue to say that the election was stolen. and that is, frankly, dangerous

to our democracy. >> yeah. arizona secretary of state katie hobbs, i appreciateyourtime and your work. thank you. >> thank you. just ahead tonight, bob wood card and carl bernstein and what the last weeks of the presidency may look like. they, of course, covered the final days and the run-up to the nixon administration. first, more political perspective from gloria borger and david gergen. gloria, the president really is of rating in this alternate reality, ignoring the pandemic, lying to the american people, raising money that he can use for whatever way he wants it, which people think they're giving to him in order to, you know, allegedly fight voter fraud. it seems like there is no backing down for him. >> no, there isn't any backing down. he doesn't feel the need to and he doesn't want to. i spoke to somebody who speaks to the president. he said he's not listening to anybody anymore and he's not going to. so this notion that somehow the president's going to come out of this and be gracious and concede

and -- that's not gonna happen because he has to have his supporters, whether it's because of who he is or because of what he wants to do in the future, he has to have his own supporters believed -- believe that he didn't lose. that he's never going to be called a loser and maybe he wants to monetize this. as you point out, he's already raised -- his pac has already raised over $200 million. 70% of that he can use for himself, if he wants to, or if he's planning for another run. who knows if that would ever happen in 2024, but he's not going to leave the stage saying "i lost." it's just not gonna happen. >> david, does setting up, like, a grievance -- a grievance movement, is that a -- is there evidence that that actually works to catapult somebody for a re-election attempt? to run again. i mean, is that enough of a --

>> well -- >> -- motivation. we talked to ben ginsberg, i remember a while ago, and one of the things he was saying is, you know, people who run again based on past grievance saying they were wronged, it rarely has worked out. i'm wondering if you've seen evidence to the contrary? i think david's computer is frozen. the joys of what we are living through. >> uh-huh. >> but, you know, gloria, with coronavirus numbers. i mean, the numbers are staggering. people are dying at record numbers right now. the president is focused on conspiracy theories. >> right. >> praising qanon, you know, an anti-semitic based conspiracy theory. president-elect biden is making plans to combat the virus. it is stunning, just the disconnect here. >> well, it is stunning. also as you pointed out at the beginning, that the president parades qanon people in that meeting don't stand up and say, are you kidding me? >> right. >> what are you talking about? not, you know, not only is he

not focussing on the virus because maybe he believes that was a hoax as well, but he's spending all his time or his aides are spending an awful lot of time talking about pardons and, you know, these pardons in advance of any potential crime for his family, for his lawyer rudy giuliani, and, you know, pam brown and i heard today in our reporting that -- that there is also talk of perhaps pardoning jared kushner's father. now, kushner, we're told, is not involved in these discussions and hasn't talked to the president about it because he really doesn't need to. but his father, as you'll recall, went to prison for tax evasion, among other things. and so that could be on the president's list of pardons. so this is what's keeping him busy. >> yeah, wasn't just tax evasion. it was tax evasion and also some other shady things. >> shady things. yeah, absolutely. >> i want to play something that president-elect biden told jake tapper today when he was asked if all of these possible

pre-emptive part pardons by president trump concern him. let's play that. >> well, it's -- it concerns me in terms of what kind of precedent it sets and how the rest of the world looks at us as a nation of laws and justice. but, look, our justice department is going to operate independently on those issues, how to respond to any of that. i'm not going to be telling them what they have to do and don't have to do. i'm not going to be say going prosecute "a," "b" or "c." i'm not going to be telling them -- that's not the role -- it's not my justice department, it's the people's justice department. >> and david gergen is also, i think, we figured out the problem. hey, david, thanks for being here. sorry about the problem. >> sure. >> i'm just wondering what you make about, you know, what we are hearing from the -- this disconnect, this unreal world that the president is, you know,

ginning up. obviously there's financial motives, there's political power motives and, you know, motives for what his future may be. >> listen, we haven't seen anything like this before in our history. you could argue that andrew jackson was denied the presidency in one race and he screwed around and came back and won the next one and showed, yes, you can correct these things, but this president is so much off the spectrum, anderson. it's just out of sight. i think basically this is about power. i think he wants to cripple joe biden before he ever gets started. things he's been doing on the stimulus program, the stalling on the stimulus program, the long lines for food, the hurt that's going on in this country, with the arctic contracts, with iran. there's so many things you can point to that he's really laying ground mines for joe biden to step into and blow up his presidency. i don't think it's disgraceful. the republicans need to stand up

and be accountable in this. they will be held accountable by history. >> but, i mean, there's no sign, gloria -- >> no. >> -- you know, they've not stood up since and they remain fearful, obviously, of the base that trump has, that he has continued to cultivate, who is donating money to him that he can use however he wants, for the most part. >> right. look, they're cowards. you hear some republicans speaking out. actually today wolf did an interview with mitt romney where he was very straightforward about the election. but he's not running for president, i don't think. but there are lots of folks now -- the irony here is they've been paying homage to -- to this president and now he threatens to freeze the race that they want to run in. so, you know, there are -- there are senators like marco rubio, ted cruz, josh holly, probably would like to be president one day. they've been real supporters of his. what do they do now? he doesn't care about what they do now. he cares about keeping that support for himself.

in one way or another. i mean, the republican party is of no interest to him. >> yeah, david, it is -- it's just -- it's so clear -- i don't -- there's no -- there's no way any republican on capitol hill believes that donald trump really cares about the republican party. >> no, their problem is, anderson, he's got more support back in their districts and their states than they do. and that gives him enormous -- it gives him enormous leverage against them. that's what political power is all about. that's why, you know, how much people win by matters. it's not just victory, it's how big the margin is. and trump did very, very well in the general election, but he's got a lot more power in state by state than any other republican, by some distance. >> yeah. david gergen, gloria borger, thank you. coming up next, our medical team on the coming vaccines and the president-elect's call for 100 days of masks -- mask-wearing and on the incredibly difficult holiday season we're all facing. later, woodward and

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overburdened hospital in minnesota. maybe do it for her. what we do today, what we do tomorrow, what we do this holiday season will determine who exactly gets to the other side. what i see are patients with breathing tubes lining the hallways. i see patients who are gasping for air. i see family members on ipads crying because they just want to be able to see their mom, their dad, their brother one last time. that's what i see. >> joining us now is cnn chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta, also dr. lena nguyen, former health commissioner for the city of baltimore. sanjay, i want to ask you about the president-elect's plan for masks, but, first, i know you talked to dr. fauci today. what do you make of president-elect biden telling jake tapper that he's asked for dr. fauci to stay on? >> yeah, i mean, it's heartening

to hear. i mean, dr. fauci's obviously been around for a long time. has served six presidents. will serve in sort of a chief medical adviser role, a role that he has done for quite some time so, you know, it's very reassuring. he's obviously been talking about this pandemic since the beginning. has worked with ron klain before on the ebola outbreak here in the united states. so, you know, i think -- i think he's the -- he's the infectious disease guy we all turn to. it's great to know he's still going to be able to do that work. >> and obviously, sanjay, president-elect biden won't be able to mandate mask usage nationwide, although he can do as he said in federal buildings and plans to. how much difference do you think his plea for everyone to voluntarily mask no 100 days could make? >> well, you know, this has become a very politicized issue, so i think there are some people who are just not going to wear masks as a statement, frankly. it was interesting, i was at the white house a week before last

to interview ambassador birx. i was in the eisenhower building, the executive office building, and it was amazing to me -- it was really cold outside that maybe 40%, 50% of people were wearing masks. maybe that's not that surprising to other people. we're in the middle of a pandemic, 250,000 people have died and 40 to 50% of people were wearing masks. i think most were not. and i think the things that president-elect biden is talking about will make a difference because even within federal buildings, other institutions may take those cues, hospitals do it all the time, but other larger places of employment may start doing it as well and i think it will make a difference. >> dr. nguyen, i know you recently wrote a piece in "the washington post," it was fascinating and i encourage people to read it. it's clear what lies ahead, we must cancel our christmas and holiday celebrations now. i think for a lot of folks hearing that, it's certainly hard. it's been a hard year for many and people want to see their loved ones. what do you tell them? >> so, anderson, i would say

that it is really hard. that pandemic fatigue is real and we all cannot wait until this is over. the end is not that far away but we have to get through this winter because what lies ahead for the next few months is actually our worst-case scenario in terms of overwhelmed hospitals, in terms of the death count that is occurring. and so, you know, there is so much virus in our communities right now. if you host a dinner of ten people, in many parters of the country you have a 1 in 4 chance that somebody at that dinner has coronavirus and doesn't know it and will spread it to others. i'm certain none of us want to be the inadvertent superspreader or host an inadvertent superspreader event. that's what happened over thanksgiving, probably will happen over christmas. and let's not travel for nonessential purposes right now. >> sanjay, pfizer's ceo told cnn tonight it's unclear whether a person who receives the vaccine could still transmit the virus, which is a pretty big unknown.

can you just explain how that could happen and what people would need to do to prevent it? >> yeah, i think this is a really fundamental point. the way this trial worked, you had about 20,000 people or so receive the vaccine. 20,000 or so received the placebo. over a period of time, there were close to 100 people who developed symptoms and sort of raised their hands and came forward. and what they found was the vast majority of people who got symptoms, who developed the disease, were in the placebo group. that's where that 90% efficacy sort of number comes from. what -- the but what we don't know, and i think this is the point that he was making is that we don't actually even know for certain that this vaccine prevents infection. and we don't know that -- whether or not it prevents someone who is infected from transmitting. what we can definitively say is that it really is greatly effective at preventing disease, which is really important, right? people may get it, maybe even transmit it.

if it can dramatically reduce disease, that's really important. it may turn out that it actually does work pretty well at preventing transmission and infection. we don't know that yet. those are going to be longer term studies. >> i hadn't realized that. in all the reporting we're doing, it shows my lack of, you know, i should have studied more in science when i was younger, but i just assumed it meant you could not get infected. >> right. yeah, no, i think, look, i think a lot of people think that and it's not -- it's one of those things where you have to look at what was the -- what we call the primary endpoint of the study. and really with this primary endpoint they were looking for in these trials was to determine does it actually reduce the likelihood of getting covid-19? now, again, it may do those other things. we just haven't seen the data to be able to say that at this point. >> and dr. wen, if the vaccine is approved by the fda and everything goes to plan, how do you educate people about how the vaccine works and any expected side effects? you hear people refusing to get

flu shots every year because they worry they're actually getting injected with the flu. >> right. i think it is important for us to debunk that myth, if you get the flu vaccine you're not going to get the flu from the vaccine. i hear that from my patients all the time. somebody may have had a side effect in the past and they say, well, that gave me the flu when actually that was an expected side effect. think that's what we need to do the same thing with covid-19, we need to let people know, not mimt minimize the side effects, but we transparent about them. pain, redness, swelling where the injection goes in. you can also develop fever, fatigue, body aches. that's normal. that's expected. that's certainly a lot better than being intubated, being put on a ventilator and maybe die. it's important for us to educate about this. i think having trusted messengers is important. i was talking to a local preacher in baltimore who was explaining what he wants to do is have an immunization drive at his church and he wants to be the first to roll up his sleeve

and get the vaccination to help to counter distrust in our community. and i think there will be many efforts like that locally that are really critical. >> sanjay, researchers for "the new england journal of medicine" say the moderna vaccine can -- they say eliminate an immune response -- excuse me, elicit an immune response. can last at least 119 days. that's after the first vaccination. so, i mean, 119 days doesn't sound terribly long. they do say "at least." what does that -- can you explain what this means? >> yeah, so they're trying to figure out this unanswered question at this point and this paper which i looked at doesn't answer it. the question is how long does the protection from these vaccines last? and what you got to keep in mind is when they looked at these, again, these endpoints, they're measuring about a three-point time period. so they can say during those three months there was a little bit of waning, you know, decreasing of the antibodies, but there was still a strong

immune response. it's also one of these things, anderson, where at the end of the day the real question is is someone likely to -- to, you know, become sick with this disease? you may have protection in forms other than the antibodies themselves. so how long does the immunity last after a shot? we still don't know the answer to that. but what they're saying, it's at least three months. >> sanjay, thanks. dr. wen as well. appreciate your time. even as covid hospitalizations climb and the death toll sets a pandemic record, there does seem to be some movement at long last towards a congressional stimulus package that would help mitigate the economic damage done by the virus. talks are intensifying between republicans and democrats after a deal and months of arguments. joining me now to help sort things out is democratic representative congresswoman sheila jackson lee. thank you for joining us. you see the deaths, infections, reaching grim new milestones virtually every day now. obviously the economy still continues to suffer. what do you say to many americans who wonder why

congress still hasn't passed a second relief package? >> well, what i would tell them is that democrats, as you well know, anderson, passed a $3 trillion bill almost eight months ago, one that would comprehensively not have had americans in the dire circumstances they're in. we understand we were blocked continuously, and we understand now having come back to washington that we just cannot leave, we have to continue to try and reach some solution. we know that there is one american dying every 30 seconds from covid-19. there are no options. and the build that is now before us will be before us, still being negotiated is not what we would have wanted, meaning democrats who work so hard to make sure that cities and counties wouldn't be bleeding, families wouldn't be evicted or having mortgage foreclosures, but we're at this point now. so this bill has enough money for about a four-month period that includes $160 billion for our counties and cities and states that are bleeding

revenue. $288 billion for the paycheck protection. maybe we can keep a few more small businesses from closing. and, of course, money for education and money for vaccine affirmation, continued testing. so we put in the necessities. and, of course, something that we were fighting over is liability protection. using taxpayer dollars that senator mcconnell seemed to have wanted for his -- for businesses that might be engaged in covid-19 lawsuits. we had to deal with what we could deal with, but the main issue is americans are dying, americans need test, they need vaccination and they need the distribution process or protocols in place so that we can try and save lives. >> how far do you think you are from some kind of compromise and agreement on this? >> well, the good news is that leadership has begun to pour over the bill.

speaker pelosi and leader schumer have indicated that we cannot leave without a reasonable response to these lives that are being lost. i think we're in a good place. i think all of us have to pour over it. we all have responsibilities to our district, but we have responsibilities to the nation. i can't go home without a bill that will help our schools and help our children normalize or to provide some guidance on how we will distribute the vaccines. and as well to save small businesses, and finally, every day that i've been in the district, our local governments have said we have no revenue. we have police and fire. we have municipal workers. we've got to be able to have revenue to continue working, and i think this four-month window until after president-elect biden and vice president-elect harris are the president and vice president of the united states, where we can have a reasoned negotiator, someone who is focussing on dying americans and not focussing on dead elections, i think we will be able to move forward. >> i've heard you talk about the

issue of hunger in america. and certainly what we've been seeing during this pandemic is just -- it's heartbreaking. you know, folks, i mean, huge lines in cities around the world. cities around the country, certainly. and people who normally have not, you know, had to go to food banks before now -- now relying on them. we reported last week some 50 million people may go hungry this year because of the impact of covid-19. what can be done to stem that? >> first of all, i see it every day. we have been in the mix of food distribution almost every week. i'll go home this weekend for just a short period of time and do another food distribution. the cars are long. not just in houston and harris county, but it's all over the nation. and, of course, people have said that it is people who have been food insecure. and i think we should not ignore them. they've been going to bed hungry for a long time. but it's also people who have lost their jobs. it's families. it's people who have lost two parents, if you will, and have the children remaining.

so we have to focus on that. i believe what will happen is that if we can pass this crunch bill, this covid-19 emergency bill, if you will, we'll immediately get to work starting at the very beginning of january to focus largely on food insecurity. we'll continue to give -- if we can give cities and counties dollars, they can continue to help our food banks. people who have means are continuing to donate to our food banks. i've, frankly, just joined some college students who are going to do a texas-sized christmas. they're going to collect goods and money until december 22nd. by the way, they want to challenge colleges across america to be a part of that because we know that food insecurity is real. people are going to bed hungry. >> yeah. >> children are waking up hungry and going to bed hungry. we're not going to let that last. anderson, i think we'll really be working on it when we return to get as much money as possible. >> congresswoman sheila jackson lee, thank you very much. >> thank you for having me.

with covid-19 vaccine close to becoming a reality, please join dr. sanjay gupta and me tomorrow night at 9:00 eastern for a new cnn town hall. among our guests is dr. anthony fauci. no matter what president trump and his allies say, there is no question the president is entering his final days and weeks as an occupant of the white house. up next a special conversation with two journalists who wrote a best-seller about another president's final days. bob wood card and carl bernstein join me. that president, of course, was richard nixon. what's different? what's the same? when we continue. if you still have symptoms of crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis even after trying other medications, it may be a sign of damaging inflammation, which left untreated, could get much worse. please make an appointment to see your gastroenterologist right away. or connect with them online. once you do, seeing the doctor is one less thing to worry about. need help finding a doctor? head to crohnsandcolitis.com

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class to get to or something? [ muffled scream ] stop living with at&t. xfinity can deliver gig to the most homes. just a reminder, coming up at the top of the hour, president-elect biden and vice placket harris in their first

joint interview since the election with jake tapper. as they get ready to take office, president trump is in the throws of his final weeks there. here to talk about all of it is two legendary journalists who wrote a best-seller about another president's final days. joined by bob woodward. and carl bernstein. it's a pleasure to have you both with us. bob, when you look at how republicans continue to entertain president trump's lies and conspiracies and baseless claims of voter fraud and election fraud, what does it tell you about the grip this president will have on the republican party for the next four years? >> well, at least for the next 50 days it's going to be rather absolute. i think it's shameful, quite frankly, the way the republicans have just kowtowed to this. now, trump clearly is a political force. those 74 million people who voted for him, it's amazing, but

thi this, i think after january 20th, will start to crack. and i know as carl knows privately, lots of these senators will just say they want to get trump out of there. they want to move on and they're keeping their fingers crossed. >> carl, can they move on? i mean, if he is threatening to run again and holding that over the head of all of these republicans, many of whom themselves want to run. >> they could show some courage instead of continuing to enable a shameful president of the united states. who continuous to attempt a coup. he continues to attempt a coup and not a serious leader of the republican party has come out and said this must stop, mr. president. he continues to undermine the electoral system for the future. so that this election is called into doubt because of his lies

by so many people. look, richard nixon was a criminal president who was held to account because people in his own party said, mr. president, you cannot do these criminal acts. what donald trump did -- is is a subversive american president, such as we've never seen, who has subverted the national interest at every turn. we have hundreds of thousands of americans dead and dying because of his homicidal negligence, and he continuous to abdicate his responsibilities while more and more people die and he focuses on his own narrow, shelfish interests. we've never seen anything like this and it is an episode in our history that is going to resonate for a long time, especially for the republican party. >> bob, i mean, you know, obviously, look, politicians, you know, have lied before, but the scale of it, the brazenness of it, the complete disregard

for what is true and not, and the acceptance by the president's supporters of his lies is extraordinary. can things ever go back? i mean, or now are -- does everybody have free rein to just live in their own reality? and i'm talking about every politician have free rein to live in their own reality and just say whatever they want free of concern about what is actually true? >> well, i don't think people are going to try to pull trump's stunts in the exact same way. they may do it differently, but -- but i -- you know, we were talking about final days here, and i think it is the final days of trump. and the interesting question is, does it mirror and resemble what happened to nixon in 1974? and as you may recall, the nixon

final days had some real weird episodes. like nixon and his secretary of state, henry kissinger, getting down on their knees and praying together as the president pounded the carpet, asking the question, what has happened? what has -- what have i done? also, nixon's son-in-law, eddie cox, called senator griffin, who was a senator for michigan at the time, very close to richard nixon. and eddie cox said we're really worried about the president. he was up talking to the pictures of former presidents, giving speeches. we're worried that he might take his own life. i don't think it has reached that point with trump, but that speech last night was one of the most bizarre performances i have ever seen.

not only detached from reality, but he actually got somebody to write it. because he had a teleprompter there saying all these things that make no sense. and as carl points the number one calamity for this nation now is the pandemic. and for ten months trump has ignored -- when i did one of these interviews with trump, i said what's the job of the president? and trump said to protect the people. and he has failed in a way that truly is unimaginable to protect the people that he's supposed to lead. >> and carl, the comparisons to the final days of nixon, those details bob was just talking about are extraordinary. i'd forgotten about the maintain paintings and him speaking to the paintings and the concerns

about him taking his own life. do you see parallels? >> i see something far worse. because what donald trump has done is from the beginning of his presidency but in the final days, in the final months more than at any other time, he has undermined the interest of the united states, the health and welfare of its people. we have bread lines. we haven't seen bread lines in this country since the depression. that's really what these food lines are about. we haven't heard a peep out of this president of the united states, nor about the coronavirus, which is killing our people by the hundreds of thousands. but let's talk about son-in-laws, as bob just did. eddie cox was not a co-conspirator in the presidency of his father-in-law. let's look at jared kushner. let's look at the pardons that we know the president is now considering for his grifter children, for his daughter, for

his son-in-law. what is that all about? what does that tell us about the values of this president of the united states? where is the national interest? and what are these pardons about and what have they been about? continuing the cover-ups that have started early in this presidency and are going through the final days of this presidency so that people can't be prosecuted and information cannot be obtained. look at paul manafort. the president's campaign manager, who was in contact with russian agents and we know is the point of contact with the russians. we don't know about his discussions with donald trump, with roger stone. the cover-ups continue, including the financial interests that were pursued by the president while he was in office and his children. so these final days are unique in our history in teermz of the

venality, a venal, venal situation and president of the united states. >> bob, 48 days to go. a lot can happen in 48 days. i want to play part of your interview with president trump back from july 21st. >> the question is going to be we're going to look back and we're going to say end of july, august, september, october, what happened with the virus? did people -- people want -- you know, we've talked about this. people want their president to succeed. now, you're right. there are some people who don't. >> i think you're wrong. bob, people don't want me to succeed. >> no, no. but if you succeed they succeed. >> even the rinoss won't want me to succeed. they'll end up with a supreme court and lots of thengz they're not going to be too happy with. >> is there any lesson you take? because i think this is so important. i have -- i keep -- because i'm in the business of trying to

understand other people. i keep learning about how do you really understand people. how do i understand you? i mean, you and i -- >> you don't understand me. you don't understand me. but that's okay. you'll understand me after the election. but you don't understand me now. >> you don't think so? >> no. i don't think so. i don't think you get it. >> what are the questions i've not asked that have not been answered? >> i think you've asked me a lot of very good questions, a lot of personal questions. i think you've asked me a lot of good stuff. >> you'll know me after the election, you'll see who i am after the election. >> that's the remark that really counts. >> yeah. bob, we are seeing who this president is right now. i mean, the display you talked about in that rambling 46 minutes when he was talking yesterday, which we didn't even air because it's so full of

lies. >> rightly so. when he says i don't understand him, we do understand trump now. and the difficulty is larger than anybody could have expected. i don't think he knows the difference between the truth and untruth. and when something comes up, if he decides it is to his advantage to speak untruth he will do it easily, happily. and if the truth on rare occasions serves him, he will do that. i just want to read -- there was one other thing we played in this. now that the pandemic has struck. and this has -- carl was asking about jared kushner and so forth. and here's one of the things. seven months ago jared kushner said, "oh, we're now in the

comeback phase of dealing with the pandemic." and quote, "trump's now back in charge. it's not the doctors." now think about that. that somehow it is a great thing that trump has sidelined the doctors and look at what the result is. i mean, that is something you don't want on your tombstone. >> carl, cnn is reporting -- >> let me say one other thing -- go ahead. >> no, no, go ahead. >> one other thing you don't want on your tombstone is mitch mcconnell not talking about this, not coming on this broadcast. the republican leaders not addressing this. this is on their tombstones. not just donald trump's. that's what's so extraordinary about what we're going through. not saying to the president of the united states, put -- we are going to put down this coup that you have attempted, mr. president. we are going to speak the truth,

unlike you. we have not had that in four years. >> bob, obviously the pardons, there's been reporting on the president looking into a variety of pardons for, as carl keeps saying, his kids. i believe his grifter kids, carl said. and others, possibly jared kushner's father even. president nixon of course was pardoned by president ford. the only way i assume president trump would likely be pardoned is if he did it himself, which i'm not even sure -- i've talked to some legal analysts and it's not clear exactly who would have to determine that that's even constitutionally allowed. but ford wrote in his autobiography that nixon's pardon wasn't motivated primarily by sympathy for his plight or by concern over the state of his health. it was the state of the country's health at home and around the world that worried me. it was criticized a lot at the ti time.

i'm wondering how history views that now. >> well, in a very interesting way, i think it was 1998, well 25 years after watergate, ford had been out of office for two decades. i went to interview him at his home in rancho mirage, california and asked, why didn't you get an admission from president -- former president nixon that he had committed crimes? so ford opens his wallet and pulls out a little newspaper clipping, and it's a clipping from a supreme court decision 1915, the burdock decision, in which it said that the acceptance of a pardon is a confession of it. and ford held that out and said, so i got him to say uncle, i got him to say at least legally that

he had confessed to the crimes of watergate. >> that's really interesting. do you think he carried that -- put it in his wallet to show you or do you think he carried that with him like all the time? >> no, it was yellowed and folded and i suspect he'd showed it to lots of people. >> that's really interesting. wow. bob woodward -- >> he wanted to -- >> no, go ahead, bob. >> no, no, he wanted to make it clear. and of course the most important thing that ford did here, he really took the road -- took the nation on the road of healing. and as he said, the long national nightmare is over and he took a lot of heat for far pardoning nixon and carl and i now think it was the right thing to do. >> we've got to leave it there. bob woodward, carl bernstein. one last thing -- >> great act of courage. >> carl, thanks. even as we've been talking the

covid death toll has been climbing. in the hour we've been on the air it has risen to more than 2,700. that's the second highest single day death toll. still three hours until the day ends. at least 276,148 people have died in this virus in this country. want to hand it over to jake for president-elect joe biden and vice president-elect kamala harris's first joint interview since winning the white house. welcome to this cnn special event, the first joint interview with president-elect joe biden and vice president-elect kamala harris. i'm jake tapper live in washington, d.c. in 48 days this building behind me will be under new management. after taking the oath of office, president biden and vice president harris will take charge of a nation truly in crisis. there has never been a worse time in the coronavirus pandemic in the u.s. than right now. and it is only expected to get worse. the nation just recorded the