from the mayor which reads in part, the segment did not erase all of the fears the african-american community has of the medical community, but it has opened the door to begin having some much needed conversations. we hope this leads to saving lives not only to covid-19 but saving lives in the future. i want to thank the mayor. the news continues. i want to hand it over to chris for cuomo primetime. >> we got to care. we got to care about one another. we have to care enough to give each other the right information to remove the fear. families like you we're just talking to. that young man with this huge burden now with the loss of his sister, her family left behind, a kid left behind. do we care? do people care? and if we do, where is the proof of that? i mean, these are truly dark days and it is supposed to be the time of year that we look for the best in one another.

so got a long way to go, brother, but that story helps. it helps for people to see the pain. to see that it's real. thank you, anderson. >> i'm chris cuomo. welcome to "prime time." today is a big day, pearl harbor. the day that will live in in infamy. america finds herself on this day failing to fight off the pandemic. we're just failing. everything keeps going worse because that's what happens when you don't fight back. we have a record for hospitalizations. more than 102,000 of us with in the hospital. and that is bad news. you do not want to be in the hospital because of coronavirus. even in this country where we are amazing at having people survive, the odds are against you. and, you know, look, pearl harbor stands alone as what it means in our history, but that

was so pernicious was it was a sneak attack. that's not what we're dealing with now. our eyes have been wide open for months. covid has been here for almost a year. the infa my here is trump and company have ignored its advance for months after the initial battles. i don't just say this because it is a lit rative. it means deceitfulness. they deceived. unworthy because they broke the trust that they would be straight with us, and they put the common good before their own. that's their job. but they didn't put the common good before their own. the proof? the shortcomings continue. testing. i don't have to tell you. it is too hard to find still. it's too slow when accurate still. it's too often too inaccurate when not too slow.

the rapid test. they may give you a rapid test to keep things with a little bit of comfort, but if you want to go back to school, they're not going to take a rapid test. you want to go back to work, they're not going to take a rapid test. what does that mean? we're not testing smartly enough still, especially in our schools. we're doing it in a way that reeks of not the best idea in our schools still. why? because we have all but surrendered to the sameness on the federal level. we just leave things as they are. that's why weeks, months have passed with those in power, fully aware that people all over this country, brown, white, rich, not so much anymore, urban, suburban, ex-urban, rural, any way you want to slice us up, hungry, falling into poverty like never before since the great depression. think about that.

and what have they done? they have watched most of all. what is behind the hold up on relief? really. we're going to get after that tonight. the details about why it isn't happening. but we already know the main problem, right? the gop is just a bunch of retrumplicans. they are waiting on the will of one man, including, sadly, dusty johnson of south dakota. i gave him full invitation tonight. come on with his democrat brother. they're working together trying to get things to a better place. just the mention that i would have to address the fact that joe biden won the election and when is his party going to stop resisting that, and he bailed out. what does that tell you? what does that tell you? that he'd rather not come on and make the case for bringing relief in a bipartisan way to people who are starving. i'd rather not do that than

speak against trump. you are not speaking against trump, dusty. you would be telling the truth. you have seen no proof that warrants any change in how this election came out, and you know it. i'm not going to let you hide. i let people sometimes decide not to come on this show. i believe it serves some greater good. i don't want to cause more trouble than it's worth. not this time. he is not your boss. he did not put you in office. do your job. do your job. trump has made it clear he's not going to do his own job. it is not about me suggesting it. it's his own mouth. listen. >> i thought we were going to easily win and that maybe for the first time in a long time i'd go take a nice little vacation for about two days and then we go back and instead i probably worked harder in the last three weeks than i have ever worked in my life. >> he's worked harder in the last three weeks than he's ever

worked in his life. what's he been doing? ignoring the damn pandemic, not pushing a deal in any real way for relief. and you know it. what has he been doing? he's been focussed on overturning the election, despite numerous reports that even he knows theres no proof behind his poisonous talk. just think about it. that's what he says he's been focussing on. and it's the hardest he's ever worked. what else do you need to know that you were never his priority. look at what he's doing right now in the middle of a pandemic. would you be doing this? people are waiting hours for food. the pandemic is at its worst. has he ever golfed more than he has lately? but, look, i don't focus on him the same way anymore. why? he's the past. the future threat are the

retrumplicans. why? because they are afraid of that base. even though he lost, they still have to think of him first? proof of my concept. 239 gopers in the house and senate. guess how many of them have acknowledged biden won the race? 26 or 27. of 249. "the washington post" just reached out to all 249, came back with two dozen of more than 200 willing to acknowledge the obvious. and by the way, it's not like they say no, because, dot, dot, dot. there is no because. they have no proof. 34 days since the election. more than 44 cases later with judges saying you have shown no proof of fraud. don't come back with prejudice they have said it. conservative, liberal judges alike. georgia just certified its

results again, reaffirming biden's victory. third time. federal court in michigan today threw out the latest trump lawsuit. multiple sources tell cnn the trump legal effort may be coming to an end. why? he can't get help. rudy catching the rona didn't help. we wish mr. giuliani a quick recovery. i hope he's in the hospital just so he can get the best kind of care to get him out. we know he's in georgetown hospital. i don't want to see him there. i don't want this for his family. i don't want this for anybody. it's not a coincidence. this guy openly disregarded the risks. he's often seen with no mask on. the right is not going to talk about that. no. they only go after people who try to tell you the right message, not the wrong message. overturn the election tour has been showing up all over the place like this. who knows how many other people got infected after he knew he

was exposed to his son andrew, who i hope is well. i do not wish this on anybody. okay? the arizona legislature had to shut down after rudy exposed lawmakers there. it is a contract tracing nightmare. think about, you know, you need a metaphor for the moment with trump. 40 people in his direct orbit have caught covid, including him. these are just some of them. the president keeps holding super spreader events, rallies, indoor christmas parties. and these people around him who i call the retrumplicans, they haven't said a damn thing. the white house is a case cluster. trump is a super spreader of the virus he was supposed to help stop. do you remember the listed goals that came out to show you this? end of march. with mitigation, only 100,000 to 250,000 deaths was the worst

case. 283,000 dead. not that he cares. not that anybody cares. the numbers are like noise now. nobody knows them the way we used to. did you know that covid is now the leading cause of death in this country? you know the people who say to you, oh, are you going to shut down the whole country because of heart disease or diabetes, all these other bad things that are way worse? covid beats them all out this year. >> we're all victims. all these thousands of people here tonight, they're all victims, every one of you. >> all victims. remember that. remember it. what is he a victim of? what has he been spending his time trying to do? he's trying to get help. he's not offering help. he's trying to get it for himself. "the washington post" says he twice contacted the head of the pennsylvania legislature to enlist their help in defying the will of the voters there.

to think the gop was once the party of the constitution. they now sit silent as the president all but ignores the article two duty to faithfully execute the laws. is that what he's doing? does this look like faithful execution to you? but in trump world, they're all victims. you just heard him say, you're all victims. of what? they're all victims of him and of their surrender of code to self-preservation. that's what they are victims of. and that's why he was voted out. the problem is, he ain't done. and there is a lot of damage he's trying to do before he exits, and we have to focus on the damage these retrumplicans minions will attempt after that. it raises a question for us to start on tonight. what kind of chance does biden have of making things better?

good to have you both. paul, you know, you have been to this circus before. you didn't come in like this. nobody has ever come in in this kind of situation, you know. we didn't even have the history of wars to compare it to where some new group came in. what does this look like for biden when he actually takes over and you know you have got a gop that is on trump pleasing mode? >> that's a great point, chris. in fact, dr. fauci and other experts are telling us that by the time we get to president-elect biden's inauguration date, january 20th, the death toll that is around 1,000, some days 2,000 could be significantly higher. so he's going to have to hit the ground running. yet, this president gummed up the transition in every way he can. there is reports tonight that the trump administration was offered a chance by pfizer to buy extra doses of their vaccine

and they passed on it. so we may not -- >> they say they never passed on it, by the way. >> i'm glad to get the facts out there. i just read it right before we came on the air. but it is remarkable. and president biden once he takes that oath is going to have to turn to the republicans as well as the democrats on capitol hill and say, good god, people are dying. this relief package that you talked about, chris, state and local agents going away, unemployment aid is going away. mortgage assistance is going away, small business assistance is going away, student loan assistance is going away. all is needed more than ever and yet the republicans are blocking it. >> why? what do you think their best argument is? >> for the republicans? >> yes. >> there is no excuse to let people's businesses and even their lives go under when you are sitting there drawing a government paycheck in the comfort of the united states senate. >> they say it is too much money and let's do less now, bridge the situation and we'll do more

later. and the democrats are trying to ask for like a new deal right now, you know, like you want everything in one deal. just take what we need to get through this period. we'll do more later. >> when there was no crisis and corporate profits were at record high, the republicans and mr. trump cut corporate taxes by $2.3 trillion. and there was no crisis. no one was dying because corporate taxes were too high. nobody's business was going under. in fact, corporate records were at a record high. this is not republicans worried about the deficit. this is republicans turning a blind eye to suffering and their own people suffering. there are suffering in kentucky as bad as they with suffering everywhere. >> that's true. we will do more of this tonight, but i want to get dana in here because i want to talk about the realities. dusty johnson, good man. had him on the show before. i believe he takes to his constituents seriously. i had him and dean phillips coming on tonight. the democrat of minnesota, dusty

johnson, dakota republican. come on. make a case. how are you going to make relief happen. what's holding it up? i bring up that we will have to talk about the fact that your party seems a little locked in place about denying the outcome of the election. bails out. bails out, dana. would rather not talk relief than talk relief if he has to stay something about trump. why aren't we surprised? >> because they are scared of their own shadows when it comes to this issue. and it is -- you know, there wasn't even one thing, you know, this saturday after the election when the networks called it. it wasn't one thing a week after that. but here we are a month after the election with state after state, swing states certifying, including georgia today certifying again the election for joe biden. and, yet, they understand what

they saw from the president in georgia over the weekend, which is a cascade of lies. but a cascade of lies that his constituents are believing and his constituents as we have discussed so many times or there constituents. >> is that a dog or a kid? >> it is my puppy. sorry about that. you know about dogs. if it was a kid, i wouldn't be talking to you. let's be clear. >> finish your point. i got to go. finish your point. >> no, but that's the reality. let's see what happens a week from tomorrow because so many republicans privately and publically have said to me as i'm sure to you that let's wait to see until after the electoral college makes this official. that will be in a week and let's see if they live up to that or if there will be another kind of ghost, you know, phantom deadline they will put out there because they don't have a choice because the president won't give it up. >> thank you very much. appreciate you. be well. >> thank you. all right. so how do we figure out who made

out and what? we know it is outrageous, right? we know it's unacceptable, right? so we got to get some clarity on what these leaines actually are. i'm not going to stop saying this. we were supposed to have two members of congress, one from each side of the aisle that were going to make a case about how to do this. the republican pulled out as soon as you got to deal with the reality of this election came up as something that we might discuss. what does that tell you? that the quest for answers must go on. although, i'll tell you that's a big piece to this damn puzzle. more on this insight of what is stopping relief next. tonight...i'll be eating a falafel wrap

with sweet potato fries.

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let's talk reality, okay? no politics for a second. we're living a humanitarian disaster. okay? that's what it is by any metric. this is the richest nation on the planet. one in six or seven of us is worried about their next meal. think about that. one in six or seven of us? oh, but the stock market. listen, you can't eat stocks. all right? that is a discreet set of people in a discreet reality. americans of all stripes are living the kind of suffers we thought was relegated to the black and white images of history. basic freedoms, freedom from want, freedom from fear. what happened to those? how can we just let people not have enough food all over this country? to lose their homes, lose their jobs, thanksgiving, christmas. i'm so thankful. christmas, i believe, i believe in better days.

i believe in the optimism of a theology that teaches me to love mercy. but what are we doing? we will keep telling you the numbers. why? because nobody does anything about them and they keep getting worse. 54 million without food. nothing happens. look at their faces. look at the faces. these are the people who are forced to wait hours for the charity of neighbors in most cases. it's not inner city soup kitchen. why do i say that? so stigmatize? no. to relieve the notion that it is an other. it is part of us. it is the people you know. it could be you. the number of people starving in the rural communities that grow our food is almost twice that of cities. it's everybody. and the why matters. you know why? people are running out of work and running out of time. more than 20 million of us needed help from the government.

and even that may be off. why? the government systems that track unemployment have become overwhelmed due to, quote, backlogs in processing and historic volume of claims. we literally broke the system with need. they have been watching their checks shrink as time drags on. and they know our leaders are aware. and even what they have may be gone in a matter of weeks. we don't know that something is going to replace it. this was never about safety versus the economy. states that reopen too early and those that maintain tighter restrictions, take a look. look at the ten states highest unep employment. doesn't matter if they're red or blue. how will they come back? where are they going to get the capital? too many listened and wanted to believe that we were rounding the corner. i told you then and you know it

now: trump lied. this will be over by april. trump lied. magically vanished during the summer. disappeared after the election. won't even talk about it. they all lied to you because they thought it would work for them. and it is worse than ever, especially since november. and so is trump. but i got to tell you, the real onus is no longer on that guy. he's never been in the driver's seat. it's congress. you step up whenever we ask. i tell you these people need help. there is a page you can go. you can do it. you do it. you do it amazingly. you max people out. you go to the charity. you reach out. you send us stories. i don't have much, but i'll give what i can. where is that in our leadership? where is that in the people that we put there to do what we can't do? they knew that help was expiring. they watched key dates come and go, just like. this is a reality too real for

too many, especially with kids. the question is not going to be what does santa bring? will they be in a home for him to visit? you call congress to the carpet, one side pulls the rope under the other. that's what they do. they pull the rope from the other side. however, the blame cannot be equal. mcconnell has the most shame in his game, period. he sat on this situation and he knows it and he did it for political reasons. 26 million going hungry in september, not enough to do something. he called any deal to provide relief a, quote, waste of time without a blessing from the lame duck in the white house. >> i think the place to start is are we actually making a law or are we just making a point? and i think the way to make a law for sure is you know you have got a presidential

signature. >> by the way, he discounted the deal that the white house put out. why? why would he undercut the white house he said he was waiting on? retrumplicans. retrumplicans. how do we get a deal done that goes back to putting the people before the whims of the donald? especially when people like congressman dusty johnson. i am not trying to beat down dusty johnson, okay? i've had him on the show. i know what he does. he has respect for doing the job. but why would you back out tonight? just because i said we have to talk about the fact that your party only a couple of dozen of you have said that biden won? that's enough to have you abandon a discussion about relief? let's deal with what can be done in this environment. congressman dean phillips, democrat from minnesota, part of a group pushing a bipartisan relief bill, respected. congressman, thank you for coming on "primetime".

>> good to be with you, chris. >> i know you talked to dusty. the offer stands, okay? but you can't ignore what you guys are up against in the democratic party and what, frankly, a lot of still republicans are up against. if they will leave rather than have to discuss the fact that biden won the election, how do you expect to get a deal? >> well, chris, that's why dusty and i are both here. and i have listened to you tonight. i want to start by letting you know and everybody watching know that there are people here. in a place filled with actors and so little action, there are a group of us, democrats and republicans, dusty is among them, that sit down together once a week in a place that has institutionalized separation, and we make it our intention to get together, get to know each other, trust one another and try to rise to the occasion in times just like these. yeah, i'm really frustrated with my party, and i'm really frustrated with the other party,

and i'm really frustrated with the white house. that's a perception that's shared by very many. the problem solvers caucus came out with a plan. the house voted on two bills since the cares act. we have been doing the work. a march to common ground. dusty and i co-led that effort. we came up with a plan. it was celebrated by rank and file house members. even the white house liked it. of course it went nowhere. >> why? >> well, you know this place just as well as i do, chris. i was watching the election in 2016. i had a comfortable life. i owned a business. i was very happy in minneapolis. i watched my daughter's reaction that night in 2016, and i woke up the next morning and i promised them i would do something. a lot of us who won the elections in 2018 had the same reaction that night. we're here for the same reason, because we're sick of it. you know as well as i do that 12 million people that lose their

unemployment after the holidays after christmas, do you think they care about what donald trump is saying today? do you think the people whose small business is closing tomorrow because they can't make ends meet, do you think they really care about the stuff that so many are talking about on twitter? no. they care about help. that's what we are supposed to do. i am stick of the inactivity. i don't know how long my career will be here, but i will fall on the sword and do my best to get help to people who deserve it, who need it because that is what this country is about. >> what is the best answer about why the extraordinary need that has been taking place for months wasn't enough to move the needle? >> chris, i might be on my death bed some day and still be trying to understand why. this place does not function the way most americans would expect it to, the way that they deserve -- america deserves its congress to work. >> i hear about that as a culture. but let's get more of the granular things.

i don't understand what the argument is for no more checks to people. is it because they believe there is enough money in the support programs that will catch that need? is it just about the price tag? i mean, why no more checks for people when you know that they need it, not just because they're in poverty but they're that paycheck away from being in poverty? >> well, i think you have to ask leader mcconnell that specific question. but let me tell you this. there is more bipartisan support for stimulus checks because we know that consumption is the engine of the economy and money in people's pockets is the fuel. that is something that unifying democrats and republicans. that's why stimulus checks were in the first bill. the president actually supports stimulus checks, perhaps because his name was on them, of course. i don't know if this bill that we're working on right now will include them. of course the senate is going to play a big role in determining if that's the case. but would i like to personally see them? of course.

that's what people deserve because it will cost us less if we do that now than it will later. and most of all, it is compassionate. if we don't do it, chris, geez, i just don't understand why we are unwilling, to your point, to help people in the worst crisis i have known in my lifetime and i'm sure yours. >> joe says he can't get the stimulus payments to families done. that it's a nonstarter for people on the right. look, i would have loved to have talked to dusty about it. i believe you that he meets. i believe that he wants better. i have never heard any bad stink on him. but he made the decision not to come on tonight. it's not like we had an argument. i never spoke to him. but how can i have a republican on the show and not ask, do you not think biden won. i know you are coming from the private sector, but if you have that built-in anonymous, they're not going to do anything with you because they don't want to give a win to a side that is seen as the enemy these days.

>> it is the culture, but that's what makes our little group unique, the problem solvers cauc caucus. 50 of us. dusty johnson doesn't have to sit at the problem sol ver's caucus table. it is probably more rewarding for him not to. >> he didn't have to bail tonight. let's worry about the people who are starving, chris. and the conversation goes on. that's it. >> chris, let me just say, though. dusty is my friend. he's my partner in this effort. if this bill gets done, dusty johnson will have played a significant role in making it happen. dusty is one of that very handful in the house, the republicans, that have actually said that the election transitions should start happening. by the way, most of them are on the problem solvers question

caucus. there are some. most of them on the problem solvers caucus. we are here for the reason to help people. >> i have no problem with it. >> you could have asked 100 other members of congress to come on tonight to throw stones at one another. i would argue today, tonight, tomorrow, until we get this done, we got to focus on one thing, and it is the good in people and finding some darn way for rank and file members that have a lot of darn power in their hands that are willing to exercise and stick together at some political cost, this is the time. that's why we're here. it is time to get it done. >> i'm with you 100%. you are welcome here. i've had reed on. i've had others on. the invitation is there. but when you bail because you don't even want to address something that may offend trump but he's not even going to be president anymore, it speaks to a problem that will stop progress. >> let me say something, chris. can i say one more thing? >> please. >> a lot of my colleagues, i heard dana bash say earlier that

privately and publically many republicans are saying that december 14th is the date. it is. that's when the electoral college will actually affirm the election. in the meantime, i have to share some human truth. my colleagues, decent people who are getting death threats, whose families are being attacked both online and offline, and we have all seen, you have seen, i have seen, what happens when anybody says even a remotely negative word about president donald trump. >> i know. >> and i'm afraid that the people who have had the courage to speak some truth, perhaps step out of line a little bit in the spirit of truth, what they are receiving because of this president, let's actually put the burden on the person who really deserves it right now. it is this president. by the way, and i would say dangerous at best, treasonous at worst what he's doing. i think you and i might agree with that. for those receiving death threats to their family because they are speaking truth, i have

to have a little bit of understanding. december 14th all bets are off. >> i get it. believe me. more than you know. i understand what the price is for standing up to power at this point in time. but you got to be on the right side of history. and if you are going to go down, you should go down fighting for what matters. you are welcome here to make the case. this isn't going to end today or tomorrow. i will extend an invitation and you have on aep one to say, hey, here is what they won't do. here's what's wrong. here's what's right. you are welcome. so is dusty johnson. okay? >> and we'll be back. i'm sure we will. >> i hope so. good luck. get the job done. we'll be right back. >> thanks, chris. let's be honest. quitting smoking is hard. like, quitting every monday hard. quitting feels so big.

so try making it smaller, and you'll be surprised at how easily starting small can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette.

you remember rebecca jones? data scientist fired by the florida department of health after questioning state officials accessibility and

transparency with covid-19 data? well, today her home was raided as part of a cyber crime investigation. video of the raid here. you can see officers coming in, guns drawn. >> come outside. outside. >> who else is in the house, ma'am? >> my two children and my husband. >> calm down. >> you want the children out? >> all down. >> mr. jones, come down the stairs, now! >> police! come down now. >> search warrant. >> my children! he just pointed a gun at my children! >> so the question is why? rebecca jones joins us now for an exclusive interview. thank you for joining us. >> thank you, chris. >> why do you think this happened? >> after speaking to my attorneys and looking over the

evidence they said they have, i actually think that they're going after me. they didn't take the router in my house. they didn't take a number of laptops in the house that belonged to my son or my husband that could have easily done whatever it is they think happened. they took my phone and they took the computer that i use to run my companies. and on my phone is every communication i have ever had with someone who works at the state who has come to me in confidence and told me things that could get them fired or in trouble like this. and i just want to say to all those people right now, who doesn't know already, desantos will know soon enough that you have been talking to me. so be careful. >> you have seen this. but for the audience, they say that they believe that an ip address belonging you was used to access an emergency system within the state that you weren't supposed to have access to anymore once you weren't working there where you put out a message telling people to

speak up. speak out about covid. speak out about the deaths. did you send that text on that s system? >> no. i'm not a hacker. as the governor pointed out many months ago, i'm not that tech say vi and have no interest in reaching out to doh. i have been telling people to come forward for months. that is the way that you do it. i know that people at the doh are going to. if they didn't come out before when i warned everybody that desantos would and eventually he did get people killed, they're not going to come out now. >> what do you make of their saying they have the ip address and that is yours? >> that was provided by the department of health ig office inspector general and didn't actually come from the investigation. it comes from doh. >> now, i don't know how big a deal it is to send that text. i have to look closer at the statute and see what they saw in terms of why that are motivated

this way. but you do know saying you didn't send it, if you did, you are going to have much bigger problems than otherwise. >> yeah. i'm not too worried about that. >> you standby the answer you did not send that text? you did not send any message of any kind to any group on any system that you weren't supposed to? >> the only direct communication i have sent to doh was through a public op ed in the miami herald and that was many weeks ago. >> you know why i'm asking you. i want to give you a fair hearing to answer what they're going to put out and have put out about why they came to your house that kay. and i heard you freaking out about your kids being there. they're saying it is a cyber crime. you are saying there is nothing to their allegation. >> no. and this is just a very thinly vailed attempt of the governor to intimidate scientists and get back at me while vying to get to my sources as he's been firing

doh staff left and right, including their director of communications who was fired about that time. >> do you know the communication that they're talking about? did you hear about it? do you have any sense of who might have sent it? >> i didn't see it until today, and i'd also like to note that a lot of language that was used in it is not the way i talk. and the number of deaths that the person used wasn't even right. they were off. they are actually under by about 430 deaths. i would never round down 430 deaths. those are 430 people who have died in this state. i take that number and every number i publish very seriously. >> so, listen, i don't want to draw this out too much. i know you have lawyers. i know they're always going to be worried about people coming on television when you have a case pending, but i wanted to give you an opportunity to respond to the allegations in real-time as they're going out there. >> yeah. >> i'm sure this was a hard day for your family, especially if there is nothing behind the allegations. last word to you. >> desantos needs to worriless

about what i'm writing about and more about the people who are sick and dying in his state and doing this to me will not stop me from reporting the data. ever. >> rebecca jones, thank you for taking the time to come on. we will be watching the investigation every step of the way. >> thank you, chris. >> all right. be well. we'll be right back. aioli. (doorbell rings) thank you. can we be besties, simone biles? i guess? yessss! should we dismount now?

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so what can trump really do? all right. there is one avenue of relief that trump could use that could make a difference. okay? now, i know this is a preposterous level of pushback because he had no proof in all of the different courts. he now is saying i think the case has been made. what case? the case has been made against him. is what has been made. but the reason there is a little bit of oxygen here is because you have 40 plus senators who say stuff like this. >> president trump has every right to use every legal recourse. we've seen time and again that we have investigations that need

to be completed. it is very clear there were issues in this election. >> it's clear there are issues in the election. she doesn't know what's clear. she doesn't have any proof. silence is complicity. what you ignore you empower. that's what my next guest is fighting against because there is an avenue of relief for the president that has been yet to be pursued because of timing. the founder of equal citizens as well as teaching law at harvard, you've seen him on the show before. welcome back, professor. >> great to be here, chris. thanks for having me. >> so the avenue is, that the president could ask states, and "the washington post" is reporting tonight, that trump reached out to the head of the pennsylvania state legislature twice for help in changing the electors and in terms of what they could do when they meet december 14th. what is your take?

>> right. so what the president's team since the summer has been planning is that state legislatures exercise a power they think the constitution gives them to select an alternative slate of electors, one not connected to the election necessarily, just the states' legislatures can according to this theory can at any time pick a new slate. what the president is actually doing is trying to get the legislature to exercise the supposed power that they have to ignore the vote of the people and just pick a new slate. we could call them faithless legislators rather than faithless electors. and their theory is if they can get an alternative slate to vote next week then going into january 6th they can play games with mike pence who is chairing the joint session and try to get that counted instead.

>> here the scary part of the theory you could throw out. these legislators aren't going to risk that, you could just throw out. there are a couple states in 2016 who wrote into legislation no if you're picked as an elector you have to go the way the vote went otherwise we're going to replace you with somebody who did. georgia and pennsylvania did not write that in to their state laws. so what is the possibility here? >> so i took that case to the supreme court where the supreme court finally ruled clearly that the states have this power. but the faithless elector path is not a path they can win because the electors in georgia and pennsylvania are democrats and those individual electors are certainly not going to change their vote for donald trump. the path they're talking about is a whole new slate of electors. this whole new slate because of some sloppy language in the supreme court's decision in bush v. gore they think they can, quote, pick at, quote, any time.

and so if they pick this new slate, and then when mike pence opens the elector slate certificates from pennsylvania, georgia, or michigan and sees there are two slates then congress has to decide which slate to count. if it follows the law it should clearly count joe biden's slate but the problem is this is congress not the supreme court. it is not clear what congress does especially if we don't have a clear majority in the senate who are willing to uphold the rights of the people to actually choose their president. >> what do you think happens? >> i think what should happen between now and next week is that we should get republican senators to stand up and say, you're a perfect venue for this, that they will not recognize the votes of any slaut te of electo picked against the legitimate popular vote of people in that state >> i can't get a republican to

come on this show and tell me what flavor ice cream he or she likes unless trump says he likes it first. >> i know. >> do you think these states would really do this? what it comes down to is whether or not you can get enough juice. kemp in georgia has not talked the talk of somebody who wants to do this. do you think there is a chance that in pennsylvania they would? >> my view is there isn't. because i've been really incredibly surprised and happy with the resistance you're seeing at the state level. especially in georgia. you see very strong trump supporters willing to stand up for the rule of law and democracy. >> right. >> we wouldn't lear -- hear about it now. we'll know one week from now because it must be that the alternative slate gathers and votes, cast their vote on december 14th. only if we have these alternative slates voting on december 14th do we have anything to worry about. if they don't gather, if we don't have the alternative slates, if there isn't something

bike that moment then this game is completely certainly over. >> thus the feeling it never ends. we'll keep watching. thank you very much, professor. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

10:00 on the dot no longer my spot. cnn tonight with the big star d. lemon starts right now >> i don't know what you're talking about. it's not 10:00. it's 4:00. >> ah. >> your show. >> you're playing with truthiness. >> what are you talking about? i say it's 4:00 in the afternoon right now and this is not my show. this is anderson's show. >> i've heard you be more off than you are right now. i get what you're playing at my brother >> i know. well, where's the lie? >> i tell you where the lie is. the lie is that it stops with trump. what i was just talking to the professor about that is, you know me. i don't get into some deep academic discussion. it is