aleksi navalny and to get people in power here to answer for that. >> appreciate it. thank you. check out her full report online. it is remarkable. a reminder, don't miss "full circle" at 6:00 p.m. eastern. watch it there and on the cnn app. news continues. let's hand it over to chris. >> i am chris cuomo, and welcome to "primetime." i want you to think about this. in america we refer to our highest officials as honorable. an example: >> the honorable ron johnson, a senator from the state of wisconsin. the honorable mitch mcconnell, a senator from the commonwealth of kentucky. >> the honorable rand paul, a senator from kentucky. >> i picked those three cats for a reason, and i'll get to it in a second. but this matters, okay? all over the world this term is used. they spell it differently, but it's the same word. okay? different languages, same

meaning. very specific choices of who gets called honorable. it is precious and prized. i remember as a kid asking my mom why pops mail said honorable on it or hon. she said because pop works very hard helping people, so people respect and look up to him. i was swelled with pride about that. is it still true? is it honorable to ignore the pandemic? they did. is it honorable to now spend time doing this where that roll call came from, holding a hearing about irregularities that johnson and the other retrumplicans know amount to nothing. >> i don't see anything dangerous about evaluating information, about doing legitimate congressional oversight.

nothing dangerous about that whatsoever. >> i mean, did you mean to have that trace of irony in what you were saying? if you are confident enough, senator johnson, why don't you give me the honor of you coming on this show and explaining to me what you learned from your hearing and what made it worthwhile and what you learned about the election that warrants what you just did? how is asking questions about whether the election was rigged when you said it wasn't significantly not dangerous. doing it on tv would be dangerous. let alone, in a congressional hearing. and, remember, these hearings are planned. they know what's going to be offered largely. there are no real surprises. so he knew nothing was going to come up that would change the results. is that honorable? is this honorable? >> the fraud happened. the election in many ways was stolen. >> in many ways was stolen, but none that you can articulate with any proof, anything beyond

the logic that's as twisted as your hair. and while they do this, what are they not doing? no hearing about russia's suspected hacking of our homeland security department. you know, that's the committee that is, the homeland security committee. russia reportedly, according to intel sources hacked that agency and other federal agencies like never before. is it honorable to avoid that in lieu of something you know the answer to already? is that worthy of respect? and of course they're merely seconding the efforts of the most honorable, mitch mcconnell. mcconnell holding up relief for months until companies getting a pass from sick workers was made as much an emergency as hungry kids. christmas is nine days away. where is your honor? how can we call you honorable

when we now know the reason you're making a deal right now, if it happens, after months is not because of your recognition of the needy but of your political needs. my proof, cnn has learned, on a call with other retrumplicans, mcconnell said time to make a deal. no relief is hurting our candidates in the georgia senate runoff. because that's the right reason to do it, right? no honor, and they know it. isn't that sad? not only did they stall relief for no reason, but they did it for bad reason, and, in fact, they may well have had bad intentions all along. what's my proof? we now know a former top trump appointee repeatedly urged other top health officials to adopt a herd immunity strategy. that would mean intentionally allowing millions to be sickened by covid.

here's the full screen quote. put it up. infants, kids, teens, young people, young adults, middle-aged with no conditions, et cetera, have zero to little risk. so we use them to develop herd immunity. we want them infected. really? because none of them died, right? they didn't get sick in a horrible way. there are no long lasting long haul effects just all over this country in ways we're just barely starting to understand. but here is the troubling -- troubling? here is the more troubling aspect. if that's what they wanted, is that the reason behind what they did? ignoring the reality of the pandemic, telling you it wasn't real, mocking masks, telling people to come together, holding the rallies. it's the stuff of a horror film. did trump and co really sabotage safety because they wanted people sick? it's not me saying it.

it's one of theirs. boy, it sure does explain the reaction trump had. do you remember the shockingly cold reaction he had to the new death toll at the time? remember this? >> a thousand americans are dying a day. >> they are dying, that's true. and it is what it is. >> you know, at the time i was like, he's going to correct that, right? why would he? why? he didn't want to have empathy? he wasn't just incompetent. he was okay with letting people die in some sort of darwinian perversion. it is what it is, meaning it is part of a means to an end. people die. others won't. not going to be me. is that why the honorable mike pence wrote in june that there isn't a second wave, that we're far better off than the media

reported? he knew. he had to know it was b.s. at the time. just because you have a straight face doesn't mean that you're telling it straight. and he wasn't. but why? was he actually baiting you to be part of a bad result? did he really want you to get sick? we know he was wrong. everybody knows it was wrong. but was it intentional? the exponential growth he denied more than 306,000 precious lives. they deserve honor. and then after doing all of these dishonorable things, the real proof of their perfity is they celebrate. >> allow me to give you the opportunity to thank the most pro life president in american history. in this administration, it's always been about life, and

that's been evident in the last year as our nation has passed through this challenging time of a global pandemic. an administration that has counted the lives of every one of our citizens, precious and important. >> life is winning is the banner behind him. he talks about the pandemic. he doesn't talk about the lives lost. how is life winning when we've lost more lives to this medical crisis than at any other point in medical history. what the hell are you talking about? where is your honor? every life counts, until they're born, sick, hungry. then you lie about it and say maybe it's better if they get sick. that's what your own guy is saying. you actually want us to believe that you care about life when you do nothing to sustain it? remember, to the last moment,

trump and co were telling you the pandemic wasn't real. listen. >> covid, covid, covid. covid, covid, covid. covid, covid, covid, covid. by the way, on november 4th, you won't hear about it anymore. >> i'm not angry. i'm not even outraged. i don't like that the information in reporting has confirmed my and many and your worst suspicions of the lack of honor that is motivating all this, the lack of empathy, the lack of humanity, the stories that i have heard, the people whose lives have been ruined. and your response out there in trump land is, well, you shouldn't have let us have to stay home. it's the only thing that saved you. and they knew it. and wanted you to get sick. they had a different strategy.

your dear leaders, those you honor, they wanted you to get sick. they lied to you about the reality. they told you it would go away when they knew it wouldn't. it's worse than ever. this isn't wrong. this is a lack of honor. and it hurts. so many are gone. so many lives are forever changed. and for what? some seats? some sense of satisfaction in having people divided so you can count on a certain number of votes? there is no honor in this. there is no victory. and now we learn that trump may finish by doing the last possible thing that he could, to make this even worse. let's bring in the better minds to analyze the state of play, dana bash and david gregory. dana, have you heard this notion which is hopefully just frenzied

thinking, that trump muses about maybe not leaving on january 20th? what would happen if i didn't? do you buy that that's actually being thrown about? >> sure. i buy that it's something that is being thrown about. whether or not it is something that we would see come to fruition is a different question. look, this has been the fear of a lot of the president's opponents and frankly even some of his supporters for some time, that if and when he lost that he would not leave, would not leave willingly. but, look, this is i think musing was the right word that you just used, chris. i mean, this is kind of typical. i mean, this is a man who is clearly nowhere near coming to terms with, more will he ever come to terms with the fact that he lost. and the parts of the hearing today that he played, the people

that are still following him and singing from his complete fantasy song sheet is proof of that. >> boy, david, they were strong and wrong today in that hearing. and we know how hearings work. it's not like they're shocked by what's presented in the hearing. this isn't some ah-ha moment for a jury. for ron johnson to say there is nothing wrong with us looking into questions when he knows the answers to them, what's the play? >> well, i mean, i don't want to sound too cynical, but i do think some of the outrage around all of this assumes that this is all on the level. it's not. there is a lot of theater and politics. it is not the first time we have seen it. these republicans that are playing off this song sheet are gonna ride this into exile with former president trump, who is not going away. he knows it's not on the level, and i think a lot of this is part of a political game for him. it is a kind of showmanship of

demagoguery topping into grievance. it's dangerous. we have said it. we know it. we have lived it. but it's what he does and what his political future looks like we don't know. we have speculated about it. but he's going to have some impact over how republicans think because they're too afraid to be independent of that at this point. >> mcconnell is supposedly saying, hey, this no relief thing is starting to hurt us in georgia, let's get a deal done. is there motivation right now? and is it true the democrats will give something on corporate reliability and there may be checks on individuals somewhere around $1,200 a family? >> we don't know if they're going to give -- if the democrats are going to give on liability. it will have to be very, very narrow based on the conversations that i have had, i'm sure you both have had as well with democrats, that liability is at least the way it has been written is a red line because they feel that there is

no reason to put these protections in place. having said that, even some of the republicans who are eager for a solution, mitt romney, for example, who i interviewed yesterday, who by the way is on that ron johnson committee who said there is no way he was stepping foot in that hearing room because he thought it was unproductive in his diplomatic terms, but even republicans like him think there is room for a place legislatively to put some liability protections in so that when companies want to go back and open up they -- and even, as he said universities, they don't feel that they have to be worried about a suit. we'll see, though. i mean, at that and money to states and to local governments, that has been the sticking point for months and it continues to be. >> let me put up the particulars. throw up the full screen of what we think the deal is right now. stimulus checks of $600 for an individual, i heard it might be

$1,200 to a family. the idea, david, of this being the deal, $600 to $1,200 for a family, no money for state and local aid which is necessary for the vaccine distribution, that maybe they won't have lawsuit protection this time, additional $300 a week in jobless benefits, $33 billion for small business loans, everyone is unhappy with these amounts. but is that the nature of compromise in this instance, or is it just too little? >> well, i think it is a little complicated here because you got to do something before the holidays. you know, we're seeing the impact of the pandemic as we get into the winter, and it's so severe, right? we got a stock market at record highs. then you have got record despair. but if you are the biden administration in waiting, you are thinking how many bites of the apple do i have? and so democrats who are representing him at the moment have to be thinking about that

as well, because do they come back after the first of the year in a new congress and try for a bigger deal? i don't think we can overstate the importance of this runoff in georgia. we all know that. but in terms of the calculation of republicans getting a shorter term deal and how the world can change because of a bigger deal that you can get down the line. >> biden should do two ways with every state that's hit. can i take you or you take a pass or do you want more relief? you should do that in every state that matters. >> go ahead. last word. >> an important point about the virus in general. the opportunity here for biden to work with the state, some of what you were talking about as you opened the program about the states kind of going their own way, it wasn't just the trump administration. that has to be shored up. got to have a uniform approach. >> we're talking about that later in the show specific to the vaccine. dana, thank you so much. i hope you are both having some solace in the festival of

lights. nine days before christmas. no deal yet. maybe there is going to be one, but, damn, it took too long and it is too little. millions of americans are hungry. they're in poverty. everything is getting worse. now that includes what's happening in the hospitals. and we have to keep our eye there because if that breaks, if those people with their atlas efforts, if they break, we're done. are we taking care of them? no. i want to bring in a big shot senator, a truly honorable senator working hard to rectify that. and we have somebody here who lived the pain of the need of the people who were keeping us alive. something that really should be in the bill, and i look forward to this advocacy next. - [narrator] grubhub perks give you deals

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without sacrificing the things that are important to you today. we'll help you plan for healthcare costs, taxes and any other uncertainties along the way. because with fidelity, you can feel confident that the only direction you're moving is forward. all right. the relief bill. is it going to happen in time

for people to get the money for christmas? is there something dirty about the timing? and is something really importantly, certainly more important than largely nonexist tent law protection being left out. senator tim kaine is here to help answer those questions and a very special guest is with him. i know jennifer because i introduced you to her sister. she represented everything excellent about being a healer. but all accounts she was a star, personally, as a friend, as a family member, as an athlete and of course as a clinician. she was in the trenches of a new york city er keeping people alive in a pandemic, grueling hours, surrounded by death while recovering herself from covid and like so many of our first responders unsupported. out of nowhere, the anxiety, the stress, the toll took her. she was gone by suicide in

april. made no sense because we're not prepared for it. we're not prepared to help the people who are strong in a moment's notice. and, so, her family and friends and like minded individuals are fighting today to get protection for other first responders and we will discuss that. jennifer, thank you for being with us. senator, thank you for fighting for this cause. let's work our way to what will happen with it. one, do you believe you get a bill? is there any way that you could get this done in a way that any families would get money for christmas? >> chris, i think we're going to. i started to feel confident maybe just in the last day or so that we're going to get a bill that will help the unemployed, that will help families, help small businesses, put money into the vaccination program and likely now in the last 24 hours or so provide a stimulus check to low and moderate income people at a time when they

desperately, desperately need it. >> in time for christmas or no? that's too fast to process? >> well, i think we're going to likely pass the bill by friday, so december 18th. the process of getting the checks out will be a challenge. but the good news is millions of people who were going to lose unemployment benefits the day after christmas. >> right. >> that's not going to happen. and folks who are, you know, at the very, very edge facing eviction at the end of the month or food insecure will know that help is on the way, and i think we'll do that by friday. >> i'm making an executive decision. forget about the timing. if it happens, it happens. jennifer, what did you learn that you took something that is a no brainer of an idea as your sister was heralded as a hero and that we have to help people like her, when you tried to get that into a fix in congress, what did you learn? interesting question, chris. i actually have personal -- let

me say thank you for having us. i have a degree in political science and i'm a lawyer and i learned that laws don't work the way i thought they did. it is certainly a lot of work. we are so incredibly grateful for the senator for proposing this from virginia and we have gotten a ton of bipartisan support for this bill because we believe that providing support for our health care providers is our duty, just as they have supported us through this pandemic. it's been crushing to this community. they need our support. they need our, you know, our belief and they need it now. >> you know now suicide you're digging into it, that is actually a community, the doctors and staff. they are prone to neglecting their own mental health more than other groups because they're so focussed. and they suffer from the stigma that, you can't be a great healer and strong enough to help

everybody else if you can't help yourself. what will this do? >> we believe it is a great way to start. these people have been working in the front lines for nine months now, not just doctors, nurses, pas, everybody, all the health care providers on the front lines. this would provide awareness campaigns, education, support for mental health. you know, we know that physicians and nurses in particular are self-reporting rates of burnout in excess of 50% right now. we hear from people every day, every day we hear from people on the front lines saying, you know, this is crushing. this is devastating. what we also know is studies have shown and of course we learned this from the military, the real mental health toll and the real stress start to show, the cracks really start to show when the crisis begins to end. so this is why we need it now.

>> what do you think, senator? what is the chance it finds its way into the bill. >> we're fighting very, very hard to get this in the bill. and lorna, just an amazing, amazing person who in the first weeks of this unprecedented crisis in new york just said all i want to do is help people. and i just -- i don't think i can. i mean, she was just battling with the scale of suffering. chris, one thing i will say that i have come to learn over the course of this is we casually say sincerely that our health care providers are heroes. heroes tends to put people on a pedestal a little bit, and it may make it harder. i think healers might even be more honoring. we shouldn't put them on a pedestal where it is hard to get help. we're working hard to get this to the end of the year covid

appropriations bill. it will provide, you know, funding for training, best evidence searches to help our healers stay safe. a national commission to look at these strategies and put them out into the hospitals, medical schools, nursing programs all across the country. someone used to tell me when the thing is right, the time is right. and i just think in lorna's honor and in the honor of all these people that we truly, truly are just in awe of right now, we need to do this so that we can keep them healthy and whole and healing and moving forward. >> is there anybody who is significant block on this, or is it just the process? >> you know, chris, that's a great question. it is just the process. we've gotten bipartisan support by two lead cosponsors aout of

rhode island. todd young, republican from indiana. we've got the american medical association, american hospital association, emergency room physicians. a lot of the interest groups that weighed in because jennifer and her husband corey have done such a good job making the case. so it is sort of like when you are making sausage and you are trying to get everything in, can you get it in at the last moment, especially when normally you put bills in at year end that have been through committee processes. committees haven't been meeting the way they have, you know, because of covid. but i think this -- if we're going to focus on the going forward challenge, the backwards looking challenge has been grim and horrific. but we've got a going forward challenge. if we are going to focus on the going forward challenge, we need the lorna greens of this world that know they've got support

and they won't suffer by it or have their licensing privileges taken away, but they will have a group of people saying, we have the support for you. that's what this bill is all about. >> i can add to that. >> yes. last word to you. >> thank you. sorry. if i can add to that. this has been nine months. it is time for this nation to put a flag in the ground and say, we see you. we thank you. and now it is your turn to get the help you need after helping all of us. i think it is time. >> it seems like every message we send is the opposite. and i'm so sorry for the loss of your family. >> thank you. >> there are few things i have seen and i'm sure the senator will agree with this that are as powerful in politics as when people put pain to purpose and it becomes their passion. >> thank you. >>ened i am not objective about the need. i am here for you to fight this any step of the way, jennifer. senator kaine, thank you for being behind this. and jennifer, i'm always a call away. you know that.

god bless you and your family. >> thank you. >> thank you, chris. >> all right. be well. so back to people who are beyond help, trump is in the rearview mirror, but he's as vengable as ever. and he wants pay back and he wants us angry and he wants us at one another. he's saying things that he knows are not true and that he promised he would not say. now you may start getting rid of people to put in special councils. was he stopped from firing another fbi director in an act of revenge? we're going to bring in a couple of former white house insiders for just a sense of the state of play within their party. does it exist anymore? will it after this? next. tonight...i'll be eating cheesy cauliflower pizza with extra broccolini. my tuuuurrrrn! tonight...i'll be eating cheesy cauliflower pizza and yummy broccolini! (doorbell rings) thanks. (doorbell rings) thank you. ♪

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all right. forget the intro. let's bring in two men who have worked for this president and

talk about the state of play. we have anthony scaramucci and jim schultz. thank you both. let me start with you about this idea of trump trying to get rid of people to make things happen that he wants before he gets out and they're not good things. i don't know if they're legally sound. what are your concerns as a legit republican about trump trying to get rid of the head of the fbi or move somebody else out of doj or somebody who will appoint special councils and the like. >> we have a short window left, within a month or so left. there is no reason to be shuffling the decks at this point. both from a continuity of government perspective and making sure the government runs correctly. it makes sense to diz miss the fbi director. we've heard reports the white house council's office pushed back against that. if that's true, that's the right thing to do. there is no reason to be letting the fbi director go at this

point in time. >> what is the message for the president who wants to spend the rest of his time this, jimmy? >> i say to the president, you know, it's time to start thinking about what he can do between now and the end of the year in the middle east and other places where he has pretty good stories to tell and focus on that. less focus on personnel. >> what the hell? might as well do something about the pandemic before you leave. >> he's going to have to sign a bill. but that's largely debated in congress at this point and they're moving along with that. >> jimmy, nobody was going to die if we did or didn't build a wall and it was an obsession every day. anthony, instead, a big reason that we're not seeing that kind of urgency is that nobody is telling to have that kind of urgency. you saw that with ron johnson today. he gets all upset because people are saying he's pushing propaganda. how are they wrong? what came out of that today that

changed the feeling that there is nothing significant to investigate? >> listen, it's terrible. jim knows this because we did work together briefly in the office. jim was a hockey goalie taking shots on net of all this insanity and breaking them with great diplomacy. there is nobody like jim left in the white house right now. so the president wants to trance act. he wants to make money. he does not care about his legacy. he has told people privately, why do i care about my legacy? i'll be dead. so he's looking at the next two, three weeks, how am i going to make money off this? how is this going to be good for me post presidency? is there a chance i could still stay in the presidency. ron johnson and rand paul think there is a lot of unproven fraud. so he's listening to those people, chris. but trust me, this is all transactional from here until january 20th. >> right. i mean, look, jim, you know, you're a lawyer.

i'm a lawyer. anthony is a big shot from harvard and a lawyer. we all know there is no much thing as unproven fraud, right? if you have got fraud, that means it's been proven. they don't have anything here. they have been thrown out of dozens of courts on the basis of this. when will there start to be shame in the republicans game about this? >> well, you would have thought after this last round of the supreme court that the supreme court chose not to hear the arguments on it because there wasn't any widespread fraud, evidence of widespread fraud before the court that this would be somewhat at the end of this. much like you saw after hillary clinton's loss talking about he cheated because he colluded with the russians. in fact, you have some folks even at the time of the electoral college before congress, which is going to happen on january 6th objecting, you know, members of the congress that were objecting to that based on collusion and

russian interference or cheating on the part of the republicans. unless you have a senator and a republican from each state making that argument, it is much adieu about nothing. >> anthony, the reporting that came out today that mcconnell is on the call with the caucus saying, listen, we have to get the relief now. what do you think about? >> listen, he's a cold, hard, calculating prague thattist. i think the republican party has lost its way. i think senator mcconnell would say something different to that. i think he used president trump, frankly. he transformed the judicial system at the federal level as a result of that use. out of respect for president trump, he was waiting for the electoral college certification, but he doesn't want any funny business now going into the georgia, you know, run off or inauguration. so the big question for senator mcconnell is how does he feel

about president-elect joe biden? is he going to do the same thing to him as president obama? let's hope not. we have to get a deal done on a bipartisan basis. >> the guy has given us no indication to believe he will ever change what he is. jimmy, last word to you. >> i think it is very important we get a deal done. two, i think it is also very important that we move on passed this election and get to georgia. all eyes are on georgia right now. i'm bullish about the republican party and the future like some other folks. we won 15 seats in congress. nancy pelosi will have a five vote margin, that's it, going into this election. i think we're looking good going into 2022. it is all eyes on georgia. that's the most important thing right now. >> in likelihood, you may well win, but if you are going to use the power to deny relief for five, six months because they won't let you protect companies,

what's the use of the power? we'll take it one step at a time. let's see what happens with this relief. thank you very much, both of you. >> thank you. >> yeah. >> all right. we have vaccine news tonight. america may have more doses available than we thought. why? well, because pfizer may have not made like a bad mistake but made a mistake in terms of being more poe innocent than they even knew, meaning that the vaccine could be distributed at even smaller portions than they knew. is that true? and what about this reporting, that the trump administration was pushing people to push for herd immunity. was that the reason behind all the ignoring of the pandemic and the messaging? were they trying to get you sick? we're going to run it by the chief doctor, sanjay gupta next.

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senator ted cruz, the honorable from texas. i guarantee you after november 4th they won't even be talking about covid anymore. trump, it will be gone. it's never been worse. they lied to you to play the advantage. and now we have an even more sinister reason they may have been doing it. but here's the reality. the big three daily coronavirus records all shattered again tonight. deaths, cases, hospitalizations. they're not numbers. they're people. they're families. they're job displacement, they're economic pain. they're hunger. they're sadness. they're mental health, anxiety. the need for the vaccine is so urgent, but we will never get to the place where the vaccine can help us if we're not going to right things until then. we'll lose too many people.

there are nearly three million doses dolled out this week. where? i don't know. we're trying to track it. there are people we know. they're just not being transparent. it is only a sliver of what we need. the hope is that hospitals won't need to continue picking and choosing who gets it. when you pick winners and ludseluds losers it goes bad fast. there are news tonight that some of the pfizer viles macon tan extra vaccine doses. each vile contains five. let's discuss. how does that happen? >> well, you know, it is interesting, chris. every vile is supposed to have five doses. it is a frozen liquid that comes in. when they get to the hospital pharmacy, wherever it is going, they thought and at that point they take the liquid out, a set

amount and they dilute it with saline. they're finding there is more of the solution in those viles to make up more than five doses of the vaccine. so the fda looked at this, and they said, okay, based on the fact it is a preservative solution, there does seem to be enough for an additional dose, sometimes two additional doses, given there is such high demand, go ahead and do it if you can. basically that's the message they're hearing. you could give an extra 20%. if you have a hundred million doses, maybe it ends up being closer to 120 million doses. we don't know. but right now it looks like a good strategy to try to get as many doses as you can out of these viles. if it is more than five, go for it. >> okay. so now the thing that is killing me, breaking my heart if it's true and it sounds like it is. is the reason they were so quick to shut down pandemic messaging

and be nonchalant about masks and encourage people to come together, do you buy this information from this e-mail that congress got its hands on from the trump administration hhs official that said we want to do herd immunity. thewe will get herd immunity. we want them infected. do you believe that they were sleeping on the messaging on purpose to to do this? would that explain why pence would lie in june about the second wave not being real, while, you know, why trump was nonchalant about death tolls, because they wanted to get us to herd immunity? >> you know, it's interesting, chris. i think there is no question there were people that were advocating for herd immunity. how sort of strategic they were and how consistent the message was, i mean, it was scatter shock, that's for sure. i think there is no question that if you listen to what they say carefully, they were advocating for herd immunity. i looked at the emails. there was another line that

said, the bottom line is, if it's more infectious now, the issue is, who cares? that's from an official at hhs. scott atlas, he was advocating for herd immunity, chris. he would always say that he wasn't. it was maddening, actually, because he was. that's the exact thing he was saying, was advocating for herd immunity. whenever asked he would say i am not advocating for it. there was no whiay it get at it. i think the idea of letting the infection run free which is what herd immunity is, a terrible strategy, we know that right now there is officially 16 million or so people who have been infected, the number probably closer to 50 million. 50 million people have been infected. 300,000 have died. the math is pretty simple. multiply that times seven, seven times as many people. they all got it. that means 2 million people would die. it's a terrible strategy. and yet i think that they

wericating fadvocating for. people are dancing around this because they have always denied that they were advocating for herd immunity. what is it called when all your policies, the kind of emails that you see from hhs, scott atlas, everything they say is let the infection run free, let people get exposed. that's herd immunity. so i think that was the strategy. >> it doesn't make sense if you want to preserve life. it does make sense if you want to preserve time, and they wanted this to end as soon as possible to give them the best chance of winning by having the economy recover. sanjay gupta, thank you very much. appreciate you giving it to us straight. >> you got it, buddy. this is good news. squeezing extra doses out of the pfizer vaccine. it's good. we need every one. we don't have enough and we are not going to have enough for a long time. new tonight the iowa department of health says the state is not getting as much of the vaccine as it expected.

they may be 30% short. on top of that, these warnings that pfizer is running into supply issues for future shipments. why? are we doomed? no. this is going to be a hard road. there will be fits and starts. challenges are just that. they are not automatic failure. they are opportunities. you will either make something of them or not. leadership, transparency, and the correction that is necessarily the fruit of accountability, we have to have them. we don't. and it's going to be a problem. in fact, it is. the trump administration wants to say it's not on us, you know, pfizer, you know, we don't know what's going on with them. it is on them. look, this isn't about pointing the finger at them. it's about pointing the way forward. trump lied about access to 100 million more doses. they were offered to the government. they passed. as a result, we are now in a

line that we could have led with pfizer. pfizer's got orders from all over the country, all over the world, rather. the supply chain is maxed out. why? raw materials are need the. okay. so now what? what's the fix? the defense production act could help. why isn't it being used? ownership by leadership is a big reason that it's not being used. they didn't want to do this, and i think this herd immunity thing may really have been what was shaping their nonchalance. let them die. it will be over sooner. now, also, pfizer didn't take operation warp speed money to develop their vaccine. listen. >> they are more secretive with us about their manufacturing capacities, their needs, so we can't know they have a raw material problem until they tell us they have a raw material problem. >> so, look, it's a leadership issue. they weren't a part of operation warp speed, so they don't have the same kind of intimacy with

it. it's about cash. why? pfizer, unlike johnson & johnson or astrazeneca they plan to profit off this vaccine. i am not criticizing that, but it's relevant. some estimates are they may make like 19 billion on it. that kind of money necessitates transparency, right? if you are moving that kind of money to a company, we have to know where and what. it takes money to make money. we have billions tied up in this pathetic parody play by mcconnell helping companies in lawsuits or you can't help hunger for months of inaction, haggling over amounts that never concerned mcconnell when he allowed a tax cut that helped the top more than the bottom and it wasn't paid for. now in a pandemic he is cost conscious. this is why we can only know what this vaccine, what they show. we need to know how much they are buying, for how much money, where is it going, and to whom. and the reality is, and this is

why we started this segment, we are largely in the dark. and that is by design as much as by dent of not knowing how to do this collectively. the cdc today launched a dashboard for tracking what has been shipped. this is basically just a proxy for fedex and u.p.s. trucks. this is just their information. it's really up to states to make sure that it gets to the people who need it in the right places in a fair distribution. but will they? that's why we have to stay on this. and we will. let me take a break. when we started carvana, they told us that selling cars 100% online wouldn't work. but we went to work. building an experience that lets you shop over 17,000 cars from home. creating a coast to coast network to deliver your car as soon as tomorrow. recruiting an army of customer advocates to make your experience incredible. and putting you in control of the whole thing with powerful technology. that's why we've become the nation's fastest growing retailer. because our customers love it.

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sisters. time for the big show. cnn tonight with the big star. d. lemon. >> big show. right about that. i liked your honorable thing earlier. i thought it was great. you know what i thought about? nobody's moaning about being called the honorable or honorable, but they are all saying that joe biden should not