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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  December 21, 2020 9:00pm-10:00pm PST

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so, let's not mince words here. this is not a drill. the president of the united states is weighing the kind of action, you see in dictatorships. john berman here, in for anderson. so, more than a month ago, with the president refusing to accept his election defeat, a senior-republican official, asked from "the washington post," and i am quoting now, what is the downside of humoring him now for this little bit of time? after all this official said, it's not like he is trying to prevent joe biden from taking power on january 20th. tonight, evidence is growing that he is. and another official told cnn, quote, no one is sure where there is heading. for the third time we know of, since friday, attorney sydney powell was at the white house today. she is the conspiracy theorist, you will recall, who was kicked off the president's election team, after making allegations too wild, even for them. she now wants the president to order the federal seizure of
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voting machines, in swing states. so does the president's fired national security adviser, michael flynn. he and powell met with the president, friday. here is what he told news max, thursday, about the president's options. >> he could, immediately, on his order, seize every single one of these machines around the country, on his order. he could, also, order -- he could order the -- the -- within the swing states, if he wanted to, he could take military capabilities, and he could place them in those states. and basically, rerun an election, in each of those states. >> send in the troops. this retired, three-star general says, and rerun the elections. essentially, at gunpoint. and in case you're wondering whether he is just speaking hypothetically, he's not. flynn has also retweeted this press release from an outfit called we, the people, convention, advocating precisely that. what the group calls limited martial law. it's all a bit much for another friend to the president. >> remember the thing that
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ronald reagan used to say. used to say, personnel is policy. and what he meant was that the people who surround you and what they do will help to determine policy. this is why someone, like michael flynn, never belongs anywhere near the white house, let alone in the oval office and his lawyer, sydney powell. i have been talking about this since the transition in 2016. how dangerous i thought general flynn was. i sat with him in -- in security briefings with the then-candidate, donald trump, and then, with president donald trump. and i will tell you, that he is not fit to be giving advice to anyone. >> yet, there he and powell were at the white house, on friday. the fired, national security adviser, and the fired attorney. they were joined by a dot-com tycoon named patrick burn. politically, he is best known for his comments about the deep state and his admitted relationship with accused russian agent. more recently, he claims to have, in his words, funded a team of hackers and cybersleuths
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other people with odd skills to investigate the election. rudy giuliani, the president's lawyer and ukraine go-between, was spotted at the white house today. so, there is now a rift between giuliani and powell, by the way, which makes the whole thing even more freakish. it's a cast of characters, i suppose, that is attempting to dismiss as some kind of pathetic clown show. complete with running grease paint. that is, until you consider the seriousness of what they're advocating, and what the president appears to be embracing. it's scary, an administration official tells us. adding the president appears, quote, obsessed, unquote, with far-flung scenarios for overturning the election. an idea sources tell us the president floated during the friday meeting. and again, remember, we are talking about the same sydney powell the president and his election-legal team wanted nothing to do with just a few weeks ago because she was seen as too extreme. now, in the president's eyes,
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she's special-counsel material. cnn's evan perez asked attorney general william barr, about this, today. >> would you -- whether you believe there is enough there, even with what you've already said, do you believe there is enough evidence to warrant a special counsel to investigate that? perhaps, sydney powell or someone else? >> if i thought a special counsel, at this stage, was the right tool and was appropriate, i -- i would do -- i would name one but i haven't and i'm not going to. >> meaning, that as far as he is concerned, the country is safe from a special counsel powell. that is, until he leaves office, two days from now. that's how much longer might hold on. on the special-counsel front. as for martial law, on friday, the secretary of the army and army chief of staff put out a joint statement reading, quote, there is no role for the u.s. military in determining the outcome of an american election. welcome words, until you
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consider they even needed to say them, at all. cnn's jeremy diamond has done much of the reporting on this. he joins us from the white house, tonight. jeremy, what are you hearing from sources about what president trump and his allies are trying to do tonight, and the lengths they are willing to go? >> one thing is clear, john. the president is no longer just going through the motions here, processing a defeat. he is committed, at this point, to trying to overturn the results of the election. now, there is very little to no chance that he is actually going to be successful in those efforts. but he is considering a range of options. and they range from the, you know, kind of more sane, long-shot, legal challenges at the supreme court. to the completely delusional and, frankly, unhinged efforts to consider imposing martial law, in several, key battleground states. an option that was floated by the disgraced, former national security adviser, michael flynn, who the president has been meeting with. so, what you have to look at here is kind of the different categories that the president is considering. he is considering some efforts that are more unhinged being put
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forward by the fringe elements of his political orbit, including flynn and sydney powell. and then, you have efforts by others, who have been pushing back on some of those more -- more delusional efforts, like the white house chief of staff, mark meadows. the white house counsel, pat cipollone. rudy giuliani. they are still supporting other evidents efforts by the president to overturn the results of the election. and one, of course, today, the president spent several hours meeting with republican members of congress, as well as mark meadows, who tweeted about this meeting. and it's very clear they are going to try and object to the certification of the election on january 6th, in -- in congress. and so, again, it just kind of depends, what is your range of comfortability, with efforts to overturn the results of the election, at this point? >> to be clear, members of congress, they can object. they can delay the vote on january -- january 6th. but there is no way, there is no way, that they can stop it, altogether. it's just not going to happen. so, the president has mostly abandoned his day role, at this point. the white house has said he will sign the coronavirus relief
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bill. but, what else is he actually doing? besides trying to overturn the election, jeremy. >> not much. i mean, look, today, he spent several hours with these republican members of congress to discuss this challenge, that as you said, is all but certain to fail in congress in terms of overturning the results of the election. spent several hours doing that. we also saw rudy giuliani coming to the white house. sydney powell was at the white house. so, clearly, many of the president's meetings today were focused on this issue of voter fraud. sources have told me that's been the president's single-minded focus. the only other issue is braperh considering the pardons he is going to issue in the final week fs his presidency. one thing, john, is the change we have really heard from our sources over the last week, in terms of the level of concern and alarm, from people who are very close to the president, about the lengths to which he appears to be taking this. and the concern about what the president is going to be doing with 30 days left in office. that is a lot of time. we have seen how much the president can do, with just a tweet, in a matter of moments.
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now, we have 30 days remaining in his term in office. >> all right, jeremy diamond, we will let you get back to reporting because, who knows, what else could happen tonight. thanks so much for being with us. joini joining us now. adam schiff. he led impeachment proceedings against the president, and argued for conviction in the senate. in his closing statement he said, quote, he has compromised our elections, and he will do so again. you will not change him. you cannot constrain him. he is who he is. so, mr. chairman, along those lines, i ask you this. look. there was a discussion of martial law inside the oval office. to force a new election, essentially, at gunpoint. i take it from your statement in the impeachment trial, you may not be surprised. but how alarmed are you, at this? >> well, this is the same emotions i think we've all had during the trump presidency. which is, on the one hand, we're shocked. on the other hand, we're not at all surprised. this is exactly who donald trump is. he would like to be an autocrat.
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he has nothing but disdain for the institutions of our democracy. and if he can stay in power through cheating, lying, stealing, he will do it. he is going to fail it, but the fact that he is entertaining, you know, this assortment of various, you know, morally challenged people in the oval office. suggesting martial law or seizing voting machines. it's deeply damaging to our democracy. he's creating a permanent class of aggrieved americans, who think the election was stolen from them. so, he is going to go out of office, the same way he came in. like a wrecking ball, just destroying the foundation of our democracy. >> what are the guardrails for the next 30 days, mr. chairman? >> well, you know, i think we can expect the president is going to descend into further madness, as he exits the oval office. and he is worried about his own, personal liability and his financial debt and everything else. in terms of the guardrails, well, they're the same guardrails, ultimately, that we've always had. and that is, the people of our
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government, will they stand up to him? some will. some have. all too many have capitulated. these republicans, who went to the white house today, are among the most sycophantic of the whole congress. you know, people that put their name on that bogus lawsuit, 126 of my republican colleagues. you know, none of them, profiles in courage. all of them, doing damage to our democracy. but i think there are enough good people in the congress to stop any effort to overturn the election. >> so, you've had your fair share of issues with attorney general william barr. but what does it tell you, we heard him moments ago, talking to our evan perez during this news conference. what does it tell you that he is not willing to sign onto any of these crazy ideas? >> well, that's saying a lot because no one has, i think, politicized the office of attorney general, no one has broken down the norms of that department, more than bill barr. his tenure in that office has been absolutely shameful. but, apparently, there are lines even bill barr won't cross.
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now, i have to say, it's a bit opportunistic, in the sense that he's leaving. if he were leaving, would he be willing to stand up to the president? his history says, no, he wouldn't. so, in any event, good riddance, bill barr. but it is telling that, not even someone who's been willing to carry his dirty water for so long will carry that much more. >> i want to ask you about another, major story developing tonight. this huge, cyberattack on the u.s. government. multiple agencies. as chair of the house intelligence committee, what is your reaction to the president playing it, which he did? but somehow suggesting china might be behind it, when they say it's most likely russia? >> well, first of all, it's bad enough that he has completely checked out of his office, that is the president. you know, not receiving his daily briefings. not really being brought up to speed on national security threats facing the country. that's bad enough.
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but it's made worse, when he actively deceives the country about this very serious hack. and suggesting that it may have been the chinese. you know, perfect echo of what he said four years ago about russian interference in our election. he's letting putin and russia off the hook. he is doing nothing to deter them from further hacks, further cyberespionage or any other malign conta malign conduct by russia. also, when the president of the united states actively lies about something of this seriousness, it also means that he is the president who cried wolf. china is a bad actor, and when they do things that ought to be condemned, no one's going to believe donald trump because he was blaming china for something it was quite obvious russia was behind. >> so, the president came into office running rhetorical interference for russia. so, as you sit here, tonight, mr. chairman, do you have any explanation for why? >> well, you know, i think there
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are a couple, plausible explanations. the first is that he is just in love with dictators. would love to be one, himself, and he admires putin as a strongman. the other is a financial reason. now, it may be a financial reason in his past, and we are trying to get the deutsche bank records to find out if that's the case. but it also could just be financial interest in the future. he still wants to build that moscow-trump tower. when he tried to build it during the campaign and lied about it, at that time, it was going to be the most lucrative deal of his life. so, he still may want money and opportunity from putin. and this is a president, who is driven by nothing more than his desire for more money. >> mr. chairman, between this, what we are seeing with russia and what we talked about in the beginning, with his efforts to overturn -- his overt efforts to overturn the election. that's not hyperbole. he is out there saying he wants to see the election overturned.
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what's the danger, you think, of normalizing this? >> it's enormously dangerous. look. there's going to be, whether he runs again or he doesn't, there's going to be someone running in the trump lane. someone running in the xenophobic, populist, i don't care about democracy lane. and this president has now made that, somehow, normal. and you can expect others to propose the same kind of cheating in elections. others tried to get electors to help them cheat or appeal to, you know, partisan supreme court. so, a terrible precedent has been set. and once it is set, of course, it takes years and years, sometimes decades, to obliterate that precedent. so, he's doing real harm. and as i mentioned before, part of that harm is in creating this, you know, group of millions and millions of americans who think they had their election stolen from them. and won't accept the new
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administration, the way they should. so, there's just no, i think, downplaying the seriousness. >> mr. chairman, thank you for being with us. i do appreciate your time. happy holidays. happy new year, sir. >> to you, too. stay healthy. >> next. our legal and political team join us. if not to make sense of what's going on at the white house, which honestly, is all but impossible. then, to at least put it in some kind of perspective and talk more about what, if anything, can limit the damage the next 30 days could bring. and later, more from putin's russia and a remarkable story too far fetched for even a spy novel. see what happens when a poisoning victim dials his alleged poisoners, and gets one of them to talk. ♪yo yo yo yo yo yo start your day with secret.
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or just the west side. run payroll in less than five minutes with intuit quickbooks. so, looking there, at the white house, we can only wonder what else is going on, beyond the scary stuff we already know about. we are talking, tonight, about a president said to be obsessed according to one administration official, with untenable and far-flunked scenarios to overturn the election. which bad as it sounds is actually a pretty sterile way of putting it. speaking plainly, entertaining ideas about naming conspiracy crackpot as special counsel, sending in troops, and imposing martial law.
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ordinarily, such ideas never make it into the white house. now, for the last three out of four days, they have been there, by invitation of the president. perspective now, former nixon white house counsel, john dean. also, carrie cordero. and cnn political analyst, david gergen. john, you called what we have been quote seeing is bad nightmare playing out the president's fantasies. how concerned are you that this has gone beyond just some world of make-believe, into reality? >> well, i -- i -- john, i don't think that he can do anything that will, indeed, fulfill his fantasies. i think he can wish and hope, in some sort of psychological escape from his loss that he is grasping for. but i don't really think he can take it anywhere. i am stunned that the republicans have not braced him, and told him, enough is enough. but he's still going on. but i -- i -- i just don't think it will go anywhere in the -- in the end of it all. >> so, carrie, legally speaking,
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what are the limits to these notions that are being discussed? whether it be the doidea of martial law or voting machines or naming sydney powell as special counsel? >> well, the election is over. the electoral college has met. i mean, there is no avenue for the president to challenge this election, any more. whatever he is doing now, whatever conversations he's having, are just a distraction. they're not going to affect the outcome of the election. they're not going to change the fact that we're going to be moving, on january 20th, to a new administration. but what it, also, is doing, during this time, is he's not doing the job of president. when there are really important things going on right now. there's a national-defense act, that he should be signing, that he's threatened to veto that's pending that would include all sorts of provisions that would
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better protect national security. there is the pandemic. there are other things that he should be doing and, instead, he is apparently, according to reports, just entertaining these conspiracy theories. >> yeah. u.s. hit record hospitalizations, again, moments ago. he could be doing something about that or addressing it, in any way, which he's not. david, you've advised four presidents, and you were there for nixon's final days. so, given the fact that you were there, at that time, have you ever seen anything like what you're seeing now, so erratic? >> no, i never imagined -- that we would get to the point like this. i thought that was going to be the -- the -- the worst we would ever see in a presidency. and here we are. i -- i must say i have a darker view than your colleagues about where we are. but when i injected into the bloodstream of our politics that
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joe biden is an illegitimate president, that he is a fraudulent president, i think that really knee-capped the biden administration in a significant way. but what's worse now is he's, once again, following in hitler's footsteps. and that is, he -- he is actually engaged in a power grab. that's what hitler did, after he was elected. went for the power grab, and he succeeded at that, and look where it left the world. i really think that there is possibility, when -- when barr leaves office on wednesday, they'll have jeffrey rosen in there as the acting attorney general. and he may go along with some of these ideas, such as appointing a special counsel for hunter biden or whatever it is. and he may even get the support -- the idea -- you know, there is -- constitution and the question of martial law. and you may really see something
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like that tried. i don't think it's out of the question. when this woman, been to the white house, three out of the last four days. presumably, to see the president, in each case. and she's this crazy person with all these conspiracy theories. you've got to take that seriously. >> you can't just walk into the white house. whether or not she got into the oval office. it's not like you can just ring the doorbell and walk in. someone's got to invite you. three out of the last four days, she's been there and someone's had her there to spew these bizarre thoughts that she has. and, john, to that point. you know, what about this -- this league of extraordinary lunatics or confederacy of conspiracists who have been surrounding the president over the last few days? you know, sydney powell. michael flynn. steve bannon's out there, now, spatting this stuff. not to mention, rudy giuliani. what do you make of these people? >> well, it's certainly quite disappointing, their behavior. there's going to haunt them for the rest of their lives.
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people are not going to forget this behavior. it seems to be a new norm, within the republican party, unfortunately. so, i think they're playing to the man who they are most attracted to. and trying to puff up his ego. i doubt it's working. i think trump has seen the handwriting on the wall. so, you know, in another time and another place, this would be sedition to talk about undoing the government, in this way. fortunately, our supreme court has said talk of sedition is not necessarily sedition. you need to have, actually, overt, violent behavior to -- to implement it. but that's what they'd like to do. and i don't think, as i said earlier, they can get that far. >> so, for what it's worth, as i said, there is a rift with inside this league of extraordinary lunatics where rudy giuliani has turned on sydney powell. apparently, mark meadows has turned on michael flynn. so, it was a shouting match
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inside the white house, where many argued against the martial law thing. but the fact that it was discussed was alarming enough. and then, there are other discussions that get to the special counsel idea and seizing votes measuring, carrie. and i guess, what i am asking is, you know, you are steeped in national security. you've been in the middle of all this, for years. what's the rest of the world think about this when they see what's going on inside the white house? >> well, for four years, especially, our allies and our intelligence partners around the world have been looking at this, really with a lot of concern because there is really important, national security alliances that we have. and partnerships that we have. and so, the entire trump presidency has been a period of uncertainty. where our allies have started to question those relationships. i think, right now, they are waiting. just like much of the country is waiting for the next few weeks to pass. to see if we can resume a
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normal, american presidency, where there is truth that comes out of the white house. where there is informed decision-making, where the president does not surround himself by conspiracy theorists. i think our allies, as well as americans, right now, and i do, take some comfort in the fact that our military is not going to go along with these crazy ideas. it even sounds as if there are individuals in the white house, who have been supporters of the president, advisers to the president throughout his term, that are not going to go along with these crazy ideas. it doesn't mean that we should look away, and we should ignore them. he is the president, after all. but, i do think that we are going to get to january 20th, without these crazy ideas being implemented. unfortunately, that means that important things aren't going to get done, through leadership in the white house. for example, leading a white house response to the major,
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cyber-intrusion that the country has recently experienced, and that the federal government is trying to unpack. >> david, we got to run. but in 20 seconds or less, who do you see as the responsibility falling on, these next 30 days, to serve as the real guardrail here? who would you put your faith in to keep this within line? >> i think delegation of republicans, like mitch mcconnell, who ought to be talking to the president. i think chief of staff of the white house has an obligation to step up and step forward. and unfit for office right now, john. we should not be waiting on chance whether the next 30 days, he is going to do something really crazy. people need to stand up to him, now. >> well, if you are counting on mark meadows, that may be misplaced faith. he was bragging. >> i know. >> he was bragging about holding this meeting with house members to object to the electoral count on january 6th, just moments ago. so, there is that. david gergen, carrie cordero, john dean. i appreciate the discussion. if not -- if not, what we actually talked about. more breaking news, just ahead.
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as president-elect biden gets the first dose of his coronavirus inoculation, the u.s. records a new high for hospitalizations and coronavirus cases. and there is growing concern, now, about this new variant of coronavirus emerging in britain. that's next. some hot cocoa? mom, look! are you okay? head home this holiday with the one you love. visit your local mercedes-benz dealer today for exceptional lease and financing offers at the mercedes-benz winter event.
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family moments and package them. hmm. [laughing] that works. breaking news tonight on several fronts, due to the
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pandemic. first, a record 18 million -- let's repeat that -- more than 18 million cases of coronavirus have now been recorded in the united states. and another record, more than 115,000 people are hospitalized, tonight, with the virus. a total of more than 319,000 people have died. this, as president-elect biden rolled up his sleeve. he received his first dose of the vaccine, as promised, on camera, this afternoon. his wife, dr. jill biden, received a vaccine, as well. and tonight, there is mounting concern over an emerging variant of coronavirus, in britain. so far, no outright ban to the united states, on flights arriving from england. but two administration officials tell cnn the white house is considering requiring travelers from the uk to show proof of a negative test, before entering the country. so, a great deal to get to. i am pleased to be joined by dr. peter hotez, dean of the school of tropical medicine at baylor university. and dr. celine gounder.
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dr. hotez, look. i think a lot of people look up to the news that britain and boris johnson is saying, you know, that christmas can't go on the way we had planned. but how concerned should people be about this new variant? >> yeah, john. i mean, there are concerns for the uk, the u.s., and also concerns about the impact of vaccines. so, let's quickly go through it. so in the uk, what happened, starting around november/december, uk has a very sophisticated surveillance system, that actually does the complete virus sequence of the viruses they isolate in the country. and they noticed that about half of the virus isolates in south east england were this one variant, b.1.17. and it had a lot of mutations, more than they would have expected and that raised a lot of concerns. and it seemed to be that this virus is outcompeting the other,
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virus strains. that triggered an alarm, wondering if this virus is more transmissible than the other viruses. and that's the reason why it's out-competing it. there are other, potential reasons for it but that's the concern, and that's why the prime minister raised that issue. and warned people in the uk to be really careful about travel over christmas. now, there's no evidence that it's more transmissible. there's some modeling studies that gave projections of 70% increase in transmissibility. but it's not based on experimental evidence. so, then, the question is what does that mean for the u.s.? well, people are worried, well, we don't want this virus here. the question is, we now know that this virus has been circulating since late in the summer, in the middle of september. so, there is a good chance this virus is already in the united states. it's almost certainly in multiple areas of europe. in which case, what's going to be the impact of any kind of traffic ban? i hope soon from the cdc
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director, is what actual frequency of this variant already in places like new york city and places that have air hubs from uk and boston, even in houston, and what would be the impact of travel bans, compared to mathematical models that would project how quickly this will overtake other virus strains in the u.s.? so i'm surprised we haven't heard that, yet. >> dr. gounder, to that point. i talked to admiral breererett giroir, this morning. we have not seen a travel ban to the uk, yet. how much sense do you think it makes? >> well, i do think, john, that we need to treat this as a very real, potential threat. there is still a lot we don't know, as peter mentioned. we don't know how transmissible this variant is, with respect to the other strains of coronavirus. we don't know whether this new variant can cause more severe disease. most of those, who have been infected with this new variant were younger, at least at the beginning of this. and so, the data we have is
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among younger people, who tend to have less severe cases, in general. and finally, we don't know what this means, in terms of the vaccines that have been developed. whether this variant could potentially evade that. we don't think so. but again, this variant could mutate further. that is what viruses do. they mutate. and so, that is something that we're also going to be looking into. now, with respect to travel restrictions. there already are travel restrictions with the uk. and so, the people who are able to travel, right now, are american citizens, permanent residents, and the like. so, you would be restricting travel on them. i do think, pre-travel testing and quarantine upon arrival would make a lot of sense. but that's also going to put a lot more stress on public-health departments, that are already, really spread thin. >> talk to me about that. quarantine for 14 days because govern ev governor inslee is calling on
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that. >> i certainly think all options should be on the table. that is one of the options that should be on the table. again, that does require some significant support by public-health departments, to enforce that. and support the people who are in quarantine in a hotel. you need to be bringing them food and other such things. but i -- i do think that option should be on the table. but i think, big picture, if the virus is already here in the united states, which in all likelihood, it probably already is. it's not just about travel bans, with the uk. it is travel within the u.s. that could be very dangerous. and if there is any time for americans to be cancelling their christmas plans, it is now. we were already warning against the risk of traveling over the holidays. this is really a precarious situation that we're in. and this is not the time to be traveling. >> so, dr. hotez, i mentioned president-elect biden got his first dose of the vaccine today. i know you got yours, last week. dr. fauci is getting his tomorrow. i think, dr. gounder, you are getting yours tomorrow or the
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next day. and i'm thrilled for all of this because you people are on the front lines, and i'm so glad that you are there fighting for us. dr. hotez, the reason that this is being done for joe biden and other people is because they're essential workers, obviously. but also, to set an example for the rest of the country, so that everyone feels safe about getting the vaccine. and to counter misinformation. how much do you think that's working, so far? >> yeah. we have a new survey, john, from the kieser family foundation out late last week that shows a significant level of what's you' euphamistically called vaccine refusal. particularly, among two groups. one, republicans. this came out of this health-freedom movement, that started in 2015, and now around the anti-vaccine movement which was based here in texas and oklahoma. and has now expanded to protests against masks and contact tracing and social distancing.
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bought into this whole disinformation campaign around with -- led by scott atlas and other elements of the white house coronavirus task force. so it's created a real mess and this is one of the reasons why the southern states got hit so hard, this summer and -- and the central part of the country, this fall. and now, they're resisting vaccines, as well. so, we're going to need leaders to -- to demonstrate the safety of vaccines. and we also have pretty high rates of vaccine hesitancy, among the african-american population, for very different reasons, around historic and structural racism. but also, deliberate targeting by anti-vaccine groups. so, this is going to be a huge problem. we haven't had a strong communication plan coming out of operation warp speed. operation warp speed's been a great program for scientific rigor and integrity of the trials but not communication. and so, this is going to be a priority for the biden administration to fix in the new year. >> dr. hotez. dr. gounder. i appreciate both of you being with us tonight. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> so, you think you have heard
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the last of that poison attack on russian dissident, alexei navalny? nope. the newest chapter is, frankly, straight out of a spy novel. actually, beyond belief even from what would be in a spy novel. amazing reporting from cnn's clarissa ward, when cnn's 360 continues. give mom the gift of food. of salads or soups or chicken fried steak, or...send good tidings with a slice of cake. gift food for any occasion. new on doordash.
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another flash point in u.s.-russia relations. the poisoning of russian dissident, alexei navalny, has taken even even more bizarre turn. accidentally, revealed how he was poisoned in august. the agent, a member of an elite toxins team in russia's fsb security service said the lethal -- lethal serve agent, novichok, was planted in navalny's underwear. you heard that right. underwear. last week, investigation by cnn, revealed that the unit has
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trailed navalny for more than three years. clarissa ward joins us, now, with the details. clarissa, just stunning developments. what is the latest? >> i know, john. it's one of those stories, you hear about it and you think, if this was a hollywood movie, you would say it was over the top. but this is not. this is real. cnn has been provided with this phone conversation, where you hear this agent describing the details of where the poison was placed in the underwear. his role in the cleanup operation, and what he doesn't know is that the man on the other end of the line of the phone is alexei navalny, himself. take a look. >> it is an extraordinary scene. russian-opposition leader, alexei navalny, on the phone with one of the fsb unit he believes poisoned him in august. navalny is pretending to be a senior figure, from russia's national security council,
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investigating the attempted assassination. the operative, constantine, is hesitant, at first. but then, reveals the poison was placed on navalny's underpants. >> translator: well, imagine underpants, and in what place? >> translator: the insides, the groin. >> translator: the crotch of the underpants? >> translator: well, the so-called flap. there are seams there, so across the seams. >> reporter: the explosive admission punches a gaping hole in the kremlin's repeated denials that the russian government played any role in navalny's poisoning. one of an elite team who trailed navalny for years, as cnn and online investigative outlet reported, last week. the unit was headquartered in this unassuming building in a moscow suburb. most of its members were doctors or scientists. he graduated from the russian
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academy of chemical defense. when navalny was poisoned back in august, his flight was, suddenly, diverted to omsk. flight records show that, just five days later, he flew to that same city, taking possession of navalny's clothes. on the 45-minute call with navalny, he offers an assurance that no trace of novichok would be found on them. >> translator: yes, it's clean. visually, it will not be visible. they did not remove -- there are no stains on them, nothing? >> translator: no, no, nothing. they're in good condition and clean. >> translator: pants? >> translator: there is the same, inside area. perhaps, something was left on it, too. we washed it off there, also. but this is presumably because there is contact with the pants. perhaps, there was something on there, too.
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>> reporter: the fsb toxins team trailed navalny on more than 30 trips around russia. five of its members flew to siberia, around the same time as navalny, during the fateful-august toxicologists have and the intention was almost certainly to kill him. a point kudryavtsev himself appears to acknowledge. >> if he had flown a little longer and perhaps would not have landed so quickly and all, perhaps it would have all gone differently. that is, had it not been for the prompt assistance of doctors or ambulances on the landing strip and so on. >> translator: the plane landed after 40 minutes. basically this should have been taken into account while planning the operation. it wasn't that the plane landed instantly. they calculated the wrong dose, the probability. why? >> translator: well, i can't say why. as i understand it, we added a
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bit extra, so -- >> reporter: at the end of the call, navalny and his team are elated that their sting operation has worked. and despite everything he's discovered, he's still determined to return to russia as soon as possible. >> he told the whole story! >> it's just unreal that the man on the other end of the line was navalny. let's just stipulate that. it is crazy. and you also learned, clarissa, about some of the tactics navalny's pursuers used to try and evade detection. what can you tell us about that? >> reporter: yeah, it's so interesting because what you realize is that these men had been following navalny for more than three years, john. so they knew everything about his habits. they knew he liked to switch rooms with other members of his team so that they wouldn't know exactly what room he was sleeping in. and they described some of the measures that they took as well as precautions to evade detection. he also said they never flew on
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the same flight as navalny. they would always take parallel flights, same destination but different flights, really giving you an insight into an operation that frankly was years in the making. >> clarissa there now has been a denial from the fsb? >> reporter: yes. it's not that often we hear from the fsb, russian state security services are notoriously tight-lipped. but they have come out after this explosive conversation. they have called it a fake. they have said it is designed simply to make russian state security services look bad. and they've also said that it couldn't have been done if navalny didn't have the help of foreign special services. this is an aspersion they cast on navalny all the time, really trying to discredit him by making out that essentially he is a pawn of western intelligence services, john. but i think we can expect to hear more questions not coming just to the fsb but also to the kremlin. >> i didn't think it was possible this story could get
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more intriguing, but it has. our thanks to you, clarissa ward. just ahead, we'll go live to capitol hill for the latest on that must-pass $900 billion covid relief bill.
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we are moments away from a final vote on a long-awaited covid relief bill. the price tag, $900 billion, including a $600 stimulus check to many americans. our senior congressional correspondent manu raju joins us now with the very latest. manu, what do we know about tonight's vote? >> reporter: the bill is about to pass the house in pretty overwhelming fashion. right now there are 329 votes in the affirmative to pass the bill, well and above the amount needed to get this out of the house. they have not finished voting in that chamber. afterwards, they'll send it to the united states senate. the senate is expected to vote sometime tonight to clear it,
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and eventually it will go to the president's desk. it may take a couple of days to get to the president's desk because, john, this bill is 5,593 pages long. it's $900 billion in covid relief. $1.4 trillion to keep the government funded through september, and that will take some time to get all the paperwork associated with it and send it to the president's desk. members had barely more than six hours to review it before it's headed into law. >> if it takes a few days to get to the president's desk, what does that mean in terms of when americans will see the stimulus checks? >> reporter: it's going to take a little bit of time to get into the system. within a week, the president is expected to sign this legislation. and then afterwards, those stimulus checks will go out. typically it took about two weeks, at least it did during the last round of checks that went out after the march stimulus law. we do expect that to occur beginning for some folks in the next two weeks avenue the president signs it into law.
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people who will get that are individuals that earn less than $75,000. they'll get $600 and an additional $600 in the household. if there's a family of four, there will be $2,400 for them. there are a wide range of other benefits, including to extend those expiring jobless benefits to the tune of $300 a week. those will be eligible for individuals to receive starting on december 27th. that is so critical here because millions of americans are about to see that relief dry up. also a number of industries could be help from restaurants and the farm industry and the like. small business loans in this proposal are more than $284 billion here, john. so a significant piece of legislation. finally they came together, and it looks like congress will get it out of both chambers tonight, john. >> it's about time. listen, 5,000 pages, manu, we'll let you get back to reading. a reminder. don't miss full circle, anderson's digital news show live 6:00 p.m. eastern at
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cnn.com/fullcircle. watch it there and on the cnn app at any time on demand. let's hand it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." thank you, john. i am chris cuomo, and welcome to "prime time." you know, today is the winter solstice. days are only supposed to get brighter from here. that's a nice fact as metaphor, isn't it? but it is also the darkest day of the year, and that is a fact as well, and it is too true for too many and for too many reasons. there's a vote going on right now. that's what john and manu were just talking about. the relief bill will finally become a law, but it is barely a visible shaft of light in the pandemic darkness. in fact, it's more about who's getting the shaft than it is any kind of ray of light. this is an economic crisis in the middle of a pandemic. help should have come in