more breaking news tonight. police in the district of columbia arrested the leader of the proud boys, charging him

with possessing two high capacity firearm magazines. henry "enrique" tarrio was also charged with burning a black lives matter banner taken from a black church during protests last month. during a rally in support of president trump's baseless claims of voter fraud. that rally has authorities seriously worried about the potential for violence. a sign of just how serious things are, the defense department approved a request by the d.c. mayor to national guard forces. there's a chance president trump will address some of those demonstrators. the news continues. let's hand it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." >> happy new year. good to see you, anderson. i am chris cuomo. welcome to "prime time." top of the new year and our collective state in 2021 will be greatly influenced by what happens this first week. the retrumplicans, they are insistent. they just want to ignore reality. do you know that every 33

seconds someone now dies in america of covid. every 33 seconds. there's desperation everywhere. the vaccine is being wasted. the distribution is a mess. there's no word of or worry about how to improve it by this leadership. and instead of obsessing over the reality, trump and co. are engaged in the fantasy that our election was a fraud. and yet these same men and women who say they're so worried about manipulation of votes that they must -- they must try to stop our constitutional transfer of power, the same people are stubbornly resistant to the strongest evidence of irregularities that we have. what is the strongest evidence of irregularity? what is in fact a smoking gun? this. >> there's nothing wrong with saying that, you know, that you've recalculated.

all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes. flipping the state is a great testament to our country. >> if only on this, trump is the worst we have ever seen. find me the votes. nothing wrong with that. with pressuring georgia's top election official to overturn his defeat? listen, put a pinky ring on this guy's little hand. he is nothing but a mob boss. listen to this. >> you should want to have an accurate election, and you're a republican. it's more illegal for you than it is for them because you know what they did, and you're not reporting it. that's a -- you know, that's a criminal -- that's a criminal

offense and, you know, you can't let that happen. that's -- that's a big risk to you and to ryan, your lawyer. it's going to be very costly in many ways. >> he has no proof of any of that. he offered no proof of any of that, but it's going to be costly. is he going to sleep with the fishes? scorsese never had a more obvious malefactor in his films. look, it's a new year, all right? just try to start open. does this pass the smell test, what he's doing with this guy? no. are you having trouble with that? pretend biden was saying it. now you got those eyes popping, right? jim jordan's moving his tie, rolling up his sleeves, right? biden would be impeached on this alone if they had the numbers. the senate would be holding hearings announced yesterday. but the retrumplicans, they're just pawns to a delaware illous gangster. he even gave them mobby

nicknames, lyin' ted, lil marco. now they're ignoring the realities in their own states and all over the country. we are in pain, and they are intent on causing more. they want to focus on a fiction that is nothing but an effort to tear us apart when we need to be together, and they know that. remember them. remember their names. remember their faces. remember their places and what they failed to do in this moment. you know, many retrumplicans were elected or re-elected on the same ballots they now object to. think about that. they're crying fraud for trump but not their victories. those are legit. how stupid do they think we are? they argue, stop the steal alongside trump, and now he's on tape literally trying to steal

the election again. remember, this ain't his first perfect call. remember him with zelensky in ukraine? yeah, we're going to help you, but i want you to do a favor for me. and he wanted him to go after biden. this is who he is. he's the worst. but it's about everybody else around him that put him first. they are who you must focus on because they remain. and remember this. their rationale for ignoring the reality. here it is. listen, we have to focus on the fact that the election was fraudulent because that's what has people angry. the people are only angry about that because you've lied to them. you lied about this election, and you know it. how do we know you know it? because your big-brained people who are arguing about it now, they don't have any proof. they've never offered you any. and they've had dozens of chances to make it true in courts all over the country, at every level, with conservative judges, with republican state officials, with republican

legislatures. each and all negating their nugatory nonsense, and they know it. this has never been about law and fact. they've never had it on their side. it's about how angry can they make you? how inimical to your own interests? how much can you hate me such that you ignore what they are doing to you? it is the worst president and political poison we may have ever seen. and, no, no, it's not something they all do. there are problems in our political culture, full stop. there are problems with these parties that i would like to discuss, but it is beyond my mandate. i think this two-party system is killing us. but be very clear about where we are in this moment. this is about the retrumplicans, period. exhibit a, the top republican in the house this morning, listen to this guy. >> i read about the president has always been concerned about

the integrity of the election, and the president believes that there are things that happened in georgia, and he wants to see the accountability for it. but does anybody in america think the last election was done well? >> uh, yeah, mccarthy, a lot of people think the election was done well, like the courts, like the 50 states that certified them, including your own. that's exhibit a. here exhibit b. trump's homeland security department says what i just told you, okay? his cyber chief, his own attorney general said no mass fraud. what happened to them? they don't get the mccarthy treatment. they don't get to talk to the smiling faces on the couch, right? gone within days. for what? telling the truth. you want to stick around, you got to be like mr. mendacity there. play the game. play the game. david perdue, one of the gop senators in the spotlight in georgia, right? fighting to keep his job. he was asked about this tape. he says, it's disgusting. not what trump did.

the secretary of state recording and releasing it. leave it to a moneyed stock jockey to hate the exposure of an inside game. the truth literally sickens these people. and remember this. i'm not telling you something that isn't known, that you don't even know by now. the truth is known. their own party members confirm it. takes us to exhibit c. >> there is no shredding of ballots going on. that's not real. it's not happening. no one is changing parts or pieces out of dominion voting machines. that is -- that's not a real -- i don't even know what that means. that's not a real thing. secretary raffensperger does not have a brother named ron raffensperger. that is also not real. the president tweeted that out as well. >> that guy's a republican by the way. it is the night before the runoff elections in georgia. they will decide the balance of power in the senate. now, look, i don't know who wins, and frankly to me it doesn't matter because i know what has to change. it doesn't matter which party

wins. the focus is what has to change, and it has to be on you. congress has to get off of their inside game and back on to you. that's part of my job. and, you know, really the responsibility of you in watching me to create the mandate of checking them. your problems are real. they're resonant. and the people gifted the ability to do your business and bidding -- and it is a gift you give them -- they need to remember who put them there. so far this president-elect does seem to get that. >> politicians cannot assert, take, or seize power. power is given, granted by the american people alone. we're a nation built on honor, decency, dignity, and respect. that's who we are. >> that's who we are at our

best. now, sometimes you got to go through a test to get to your best. and i, for one, hope there is a really ugly and obvious event on january 6th in congress. why? i don't want drama. but i want you to see the truth. i want you to see who stands up and on what basis and remember the names and faces who tried to give the bum's rush to uncle sam. make no mistake, that's what's happening. they are attacking our democracy and therefore our country's foundation. be clear. there's no way to qualify an opposition that's based on no proof. it can only be a brazen broadside. that's how they set it up. but here's the good news for 2021. we won. i don't care what party you are. again, i think that whole system's part of the problem. we'll get to that another time. the institutions that secure our democracy won. they got the rust knocked off of them by revolt, and they

withstood the worst blows from these people that we've seen in the modern era. uncle sam was too much for trump and co. you know, i was looking at this picture of him, and i got to be honest. i never got it. i never got the look. why so wizened, such garish clothes? why? but now, doesn't uncle sam seem perfectly suited for the moment? he's got that covid look, the scraggly beard, the long hair because he can't get it cut. he's got the added wrinkles. even the outfit. it's kind of cool, man. turns out fighting for democracy never goes out of style. and that look in his eye, that's what gets me. a lot of us have that look now. check it out. pointin' at you. why? it's the stink eye. he's sick of it. he's sick of being sick. he's sick of people trying to make us sick. uncle sam is us.

united states of america, uncle sam. there has never been a time that calls for us to remember that we have to come together, that our strength is in the collective, than right now. so let's point forward. let's find a better course, and let's get after it. tonight that means starting with an election official in the state making the most headlines. matt mashburn is a member of the georgia election board. he is a trump voter, okay? he has been investigating the fraud claims, and he wants to come on to tell us what the reality is in his state on the eve of it being the focus of the nation. welcome. best of the new year to you and your family. >> happy new year to you, chris. glad to be here. >> you know, i know people have been talking to you about your position and saying, man, i'm sorry you're in such a jam. i don't feel like that. yeah, you're a republican. you should be proud of it. and your party does not have to be co-opted by one man and his interests. what do you have for this audience to understand in terms of how the election was

conducted in the state of georgia and how you feel about the results? >> well, the first thing i'd like to point out in georgia is for the first time ever, we've had voter-verified paper receipts that each in-person, in-precinct voter looked at and verified that, yes, this was my vote. now, traditionally, every election that we've had computerized voting for 20 years, we had about 300 to 800 complaints that the machine -- the vote because of calibration issues or whatever. but this time we didn't have a single report -- i didn't get a single report of a voter who said the machine printed out the incorrect candidate that i did not choose. and we've never had that before. >> the signatures were fake. they found ballots thrown out, and they found ballots that were played with, and dominion is taking stuff out of its

machines. you looked at those, and what did you find? >> yeah. the signature check was the largest mobilization by the gbi in its history to examine signatures, and there was a specific complaint about cobb county, so we investigated cobb county, and they didn't find a single instance of fraud. they did find two voters who probably should have been notified of a signature mismatch, and they tracked it down, and the voters confirmed, yes, that was my vote. so there was zero evidence of signature fraud in the largest examination of its type in the gbs history. >> you are a rino. you are a republican in name only. you have been duped and paid off, and that's why you are ignoring the audience. that's what you'll be told. your response. >> i actually have been told that about things that i witnessed myself, and so it's kind of awkward when, for

example, i was at the english avenue tabulation center when the election director announced, we're counting again at state farm to everybody in the room. and then people will come to me and say, there was secret voting at state farm, and i was like, well, that was a terribly kept secret because everybody at english avenue, five miles away in a different building, knew about it. so that was a pretty terribly kept secret if it was supposed to be secret because we all knew about it. >> what do you say to members of your party or supporters of trump who say, if you say what you're saying right now, you keep saying this, especially to cuomo, you're not one of us. you're going bad on your own party. what do you say to them? >> well, i -- there are people who are upset, and as we talk to them, they're very passionate about the election. but most of them are involved in things like tabulation for the very first time. so it's like when you're on an

airplane, and you're on the airplane with a first-time flyer, and the landing gear goes up in the wheel well, and you hear this thump. well, for a first-time flyer, that's very disturbing and, you know, they'll say, what's that? what's that? the plane's got a problem. and i've been doing tabulation for 25 years, so a 25-year frequent flyer will go, no, that's just normal. that's okay. and so to give an example about the shredding of the ballots, those were in cobb county at jim miller park. you know, it took me five seconds, and i saw that's the white envelope. it does have the word "ballot" on it, but it's the white ballot envelope that the ballot goes in. >> right. every good conspiracy has a little bit of truth in it. there is an envelope. in says "ballot." it just wasn't a ballot. lastly, you know, it is no small irony, i'm sure, to you or to

me, that the same men and women that say, can't trust that mashburn. there are real problems down there, are ignoring what trump said to your secretary of state on a recorded call. have you ever heard anything like that from somebody in high office, and how do you explain members of your party in congress ignoring it? >> yeah, first i thought the secretary and ryan germany did a really great job. if i have an employee who needs to tell someone in a position of positional authority over them that they're wrong about something, i would like to use that as a training model. i thought they did a remarkably good job in doing that. but i'm glad -- there are people that are upset that the tape was released, but i'm glad that it was because when the lindsey graham thing happened, i didn't know who said what to who. but here i was able to listen word for word, who said what to who, and the things that i knew

personally from my own personal knowledge that were related by ryan and the secretary were correct. >> would you have voted for trump, mr. mashburn, if you had heard a call like this before you cast your vote? him saying "find me the votes. come on, look. i know i won. just find me the votes. it would be a good thing. you could just say you recounted. give me the votes. it could be bad for you if you don't do it. would you have voted for him? >> the recalculating is a real problem. election lawyers, election contest lawyers are used to hearing margin plus one, margin plus one. that's the holy grail of an election contest, so i can get the remedy. but that's of illegal ballots. that's going to switch margin plus one or go to recalculate margin plus one, so that's problematic. >> i'm with you. but if you were aware this is where trump's head was on this, would you have voted for him?

>> i would have to -- i would have to -- i can't answer a hypothetical, but i would have to first say, who is -- who is advising him and telling him how contests work? and so, you know -- >> why does he have to know how a contest works to know that you don't cheat and don't ask somebody to cheat for you? that's what he's doing in the call, is he not? >> well, you got this margin plus one, margin plus one, and everybody's heard about it. >> he never mentions that, matt. he just says, find me the votes. >> he doesn't know that the remedy of an election contest is you don't declare the true winner. the remedy of an election contest is if it's a state race, you order a new election. if it's the president, you just don't seat the electors. so he's still stuck on this idea that somebody can still, at the state level, declare him the winner, and that's just not true. >> well,ize wrong about the process, but he's also wrong

about asking somebody from his own party to cheat for him. but, matt mashburn, you did your job the right way. you're willing to talk about it in a time that that could carry a heavy price. thank you for your candor. >> thank you for having me. i would rather people put their passion into standing in the voting lines and go vote rather than be on twitter. >> and it's good to know you can tell them it will be carried out the right way. be well. >> yeah. this will be the most looked at election that's ever been possible in georgia's history, and so i have no -- i have no -- there's nothing that has caused me to -- that's proof to doubt the outcome. >> good. thank you very much. all right. so there you have it, okay? another republican voted for trump, looked at these things, says there is nothing there. by the way, he's still giving a lot of cover to trump. he doesn't understand what it is. guy's asking had imto cheat. the question is, what he did on

that call, how wrong is it? is it a crime? should it be investigated? i think it's a legit question. we have two perfect guests, a former trump piempt counselor and former trump white house lawyer, next. commercials with n. so to help you remember that and former trump white house lawyer, next. mpiempt counselor and former trump white house lawyer, next. epiempt counselor and former trump white house lawyer, next. apiempt counselor and former trump white house lawyer, next. chpiempt counselor and former trump white house lawyer, next. it's customized home insurance from liberty mutual! what does it do bud? it customizes our home insurance so we only pay for what we need! and what did you get, mike? i got a bike. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ one of the worst things about a cois how it can make you feel.

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what he's put this country into. that leaves us on january 20th with some 150-plus members of congress who have actively engaged in a plan to undercut your vote. what do we do about it? should we do anything about it? let's bring in the legal minds. norm eisen, you know him. friend of show. worked on impeaching trump. jim schultz. you know him. friend of show. worked in trump's white house on the legal team. gentlemen, good to have you both. jimmy, let me just start with a point of fascination. so we got matt mashburn, right? has the gumption to come on, tell the truth about what he found even though he knows people are going to jump on him. hears the call. doesn't like what he hears on the call. and when i asked him would you have voted for trump again if you knew this kind of stuff is what he'd say, he gives him a break. what is it with you people that keeps giving trump a break no matter what he says or what he does? how can matchburn or any of you guys hear what he says on that tape and not find it damning?

>> i don't think we are giving him a break. i think people like pat toomey and liz cheney are doing the right thing. they're speaking out against that call and saying the right things and saying that it is dangerous and troubling and saying all the things they should be saying because it's the right thing to do. i think liz cheney coming out was tremendously beneficial for the republican party, and i think people should be paying more attention to what she's saying because it matters. i also think what the heck was the president of the united states making a call to a second-tier elected official in a state? i was general counsel to a governor in a pretty big state in pennsylvania. when the president of the united states called and when i was general counsel, it was president obama. i don't care what party you're in. it's a big deal with the president calls. the president doesn't call second-tier elected officials. he shouldn't have made the call to begin with and certainly shouldn't have had that dialogue. >> norm, the least of trump's problems is that he had the audacity to call a second-tier guy although the secretary of

state is in charge of the discourse, the discharge of the election in that state. but, norm, him making the call was the least of his problems. what he said on the call should be examined. what do you see? >> well, chris, i think the president is facing serious criminal exposure here. when he asked he just wants 11,780 votes, that triggers the federal election fraud statutes, and even more troubling, chris, this is also against the law in the state. and so we've seen already that perhaps the greatest imminent criminal threat to donald trump is the manhattan d.a., cyrus vance, and his investigation. guess what, chris? trump just inherited a bookend, and that is the fulton county

d.a., ms. willis. she is going to be a thorn, i predict, in trump's side because he has exposed himself criminally under the georgia laws forbidding solicitation for election fraud. >> but you know they're not going to get him, norm. the better question is do you think they should even go after him? do you think it does any good in the interest of justice, in the interest of america, to have more people going after him for what he just does all the time anyway? >> well, chris, you've talked about the pattern here. that's what's so, so troubling, you know. we had russia, if you're listening, you'll be mightily rewarded. ukraine, can you do us a favor, though? now we have, i just need 11,780 votes. and i do think in a rule of law system, there has to be consequences. i think he's exposed, chris, and i think they may well go after him. and i think it's good that it's

done in the states. let it operate at a distance from the federal government. so there's no miasma, no taint of the next president going after the last one. so i think there's serious exposure. >> no, look, that's why i want your head on this because i understand that i have been made cynical by this. i really believe that the president's right. i think he could shoot somebody in the middle of fifth avenue and somehow get away with it because everybody around him, jim, ignores or empowers what he does. you have minute and women in your party right now who are hellbent for leather that they've got to hold up the transfer of power because the people demand it, because there were irregularities, but they ignore this tape? they ignore the fact that nobody has presented any proof in any court? >> look, i thought it was -- in 2004 and 2016 when some democrats did it, i thought it was garbage then. i don't think it's a good idea this time either. so, no, i don't think we should be holding up this election. i think if people want to talk

about the individual voter laws in each individual state, that can be done if the people of that state want it, they're going to speak through their legislatures. they can hold hearings. >> absolutely. >> they can change laws. they can make voting more secure. that's the dialogue that needs to be happening in this country right now. >> that's fine. >> at the state level and at the federal level to a certain extent. at the state level, we need to be protecting elections. >> i have no problem with that. i have a problem with the fact that when she's issues came up in georgia in 2016, members of your party said it was just sore loser and did nothing about it. the state republicans encouraged nothing about it. so i have no problem with fixing what's wrong. the election process is imperfect and that's being gentle. we know it. you don't just get to complain about it only when it doesn't work to your advantage. what i don't get is when you say when the democrats did it, i didn't like it either. i've got to reject it, jimmy. you've never heard a democrat say anything like what trump just said on that tape and what he said moments ago. listen to what just came out of

his piehole. listen to this. >> and i hope mike pence comes through for us, i have to tell you. i hope that our great vice president, our great vice president comes through for us. he's a great guy. of course, if he doesn't come through, i won't like him quite as much. >> so it's pence's fault. i mean, look, jimmy, just there -- >> hold on. let me clarify what i said. in 2016 and 2004, there were democrats on the floor of the house that did the same thing then that the republicans are doing now. >> they never challenged the electors. >> that was the point i was making. >> they never challenged the electors? >> they didn't? >> no. you didn't have a january 6th tantrum where they had -- >> they didn't hold it up because they didn't get a senator to do it. but there were members of the house that did it in 2016 and had a senator going along with it. they probably would have done the same thing. >> the point is they didn't do the same thing. >> it was garbage then -- >> don't make a false

equivalency. >> hold on. jimmy, i hear you. norm, take it this way. what the president is asking for. >> i want to talk -- >> jimmy, hold on a second. what the president is asking for, that pence do the right thing, what is he asking for, and what's the reality? >> when the president says he wants pence to do the, quote, right thing, which we know is the wrong thing, he's telling pence when he goes in the chair on wednesday, january 6th, in the purely ministerial role, chris, of the presiding officer over this joint session of congress, that he wants pence to recognize these phony allegations and to strike down the legitimately elected slates. we know he's been pressing pence to do that. >> right. >> and, you know, it's just as shocking as that call. it's a betrayal of the constitution. it's a betrayal of his oath. it's a call for a coup with a gavel instead of a rifle.

let's hope that -- and we expect that the vice president will not do that. >> well, look, i got to jump. i appreciate your guys' take on this. >> chris, let me jump in here, though. >> hurry up. >> i think the vice president is going to do the right thing and carry out the duties as he's required, which those ministerial duties that norm's talking about. >> right. >> i think the vice president is going to do the right thing, not what the president's asking. >> the vice president has been invited on the show many times, and i will say this. mr. vice president, you're being set up by the president, and it's not fair. it's not within your powers to do what he's asking to you do, and you haven't have even been asked to do it. norm eisen, thank you very much. jimmy schultz, appreciate you. appreciate you both. so trump wants to be president very badly, very badly. why? why? he's ignoring the pandemic. he always has. he's got 16 days left. the vaccine, which i would argue will be his biggest positive contribution to this country, he got behind warp speed. he made the bet, and he won.

but now the rollout's a disaster, and he's not doing anything to fix it. he won't even address it. that's what we have to address. let's get after it, next. how about no no uh uh, no way come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card.

operation warp speed was a strong move, and it paid off in the form of a gift. the vaccine early. why are we wasting it? why are we allowing distribution to suck? retrumplicans nodded to claims of herd immunity this year, okay? here's the reality. they said, yeah, yeah. no, this year we're going to get

there. this pace gets us there in 2027. how many more dead, empty seats, empty hearts, sick who can't work, who will never fully recover thanks to long haul? how many will it take? our team jumped on the vaccination effort early not out of cynicism, but because no process benefits from the combined vacuum created by a lack of transparency and no clear structure of who is in charge of what. this was destined to fail, and that's what's happening. and that's what these people saddled us with, and we're going to struggle. but remember, the administration told you the goal was this. >> we expect that in the second quarter of next year, we'd have enough vaccine for all americans that want it. >> so that would mean administering 3.5 million shots a day, a day. the reality, 15 million doses have been delivered, but less than a third of that

administered, okay? we're way behind. that's 4.5 million shots over 21 days. they said we need 3.5 shots a day. you get it? we're failing. we're falling far short. buy? because it was an unrealistic goal. that's on him. but we're also not fixing the process to make it as good as we can, and that's on us. they didn't walk the walk. why? no plan. no transparency. just more trumpery. this is what you get from them. >> the holiday period is behind us. i'm optimistic this number are going to go up. >> it's not about optimism. it's about planning and follow-through. here's the fact. in the last few days, numbers have actually gone down, okay? then there's this. >> we'll work with the states. we need specific requests for help. we are sitting here ready to help them when they tell us where to help them. we are inviting to ask for help,

and we'll help them. >> they don't even know what to and for, and you don't get back to them quickly, and they don't know who to call, and you know it. no state is choosing to slow-walk this, yet only four states have managed to administer half of their doses. why? because it's hard. now, some states dispute the cdc figures, okay? 11 states have more than 75% of their doses still sitting in the freezers. there's no question that this is a problem on many different levels. but it's hard on many different levels. you should have been prepping for this in the months that you had. and why is it hard? paperwork. each shot takes a lot of time, okay? you have freezer capacity. it remains a problem. this is very special storage in a lot of places that tonight have the capacity for it. you have too much of heavy lifting falling on the backs of exhausted hospital workers. why? because they didn't give the states money and the states don't have it to hire more people to do this. they don't have the resources. so if this is a problem that the

states could manage on their own, then wouldn't at least one of them be on pace, right? no state wants to be in this situation. only the federal government has the resources to pull us out of this generational medical crisis. look, at the end of the day, economically it's going to hurt. but only the federal government can print money, okay? rather than focus on that, the fed devotes their energy to what you just saw. destroying confidence in the ability of states to do it. destroying confidence in our electoral process. even if there is a democracy left when they turn to run again, unless they focus on the need, they're going to be running in another pandemic election in two years. the scariest part of the trump intimidation of the georgia officials is not what he's doing but why he is doing it. that's what we have to get at. that's the symptom that matters. we have a great guest. his niece is a clinician, and she thinks, don't worry about what he's doing. focus on why he's doing it, and

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you need to see in the dark. to have the wisdom to understand multiple cyber threats. the precision focus to end attacks instantly. on computers, mobile devices, servers and the cloud. join the world's leading companies in our mission to defend. cybereason. end cyber attacks. from endpoints to everywhere. mary trump, the president's niece, author of "too much and never enough," clinical psychologist, welcome back to "prime time." happy new year. so you spooked me again because i thought that this was about

your uncle trying to exert authority over everybody else, to show he's still got the power, to show he can manipulate the system. you say i've got it all wrong again. that this is a fear response that we're seeing. explain. >> well, first of all, happy new year, chris. it's great to be here. we are seeing a man who is in a position he's never been in before. on the one hand, donald has never won legitimately in his life, but winning has always been the point, not the process. it doesn't matter if you lie, cheat, steal, use somebody else's power connections. as long as you get the win, that's really all that matters because in my family, certainly according to my grandfather, the worst thing you could possibly be is a loser, which is why we see donald going to such great lengths to at least sow doubt in the minds of voters, enough so

that he could perhaps get the results in one state overturned. again, that wouldn't be enough to change the results of the election, but maybe it happened in other states too. so while what he's doing is personal, as you've pointed out, he's not interested in doing the job. he couldn't care less about the job. he's interested in the power and the protections it affords him. so the problem, though, is that because he's so desperate and because he has so much to lose, he's willing to bend anybody to his will. none of this is performative for him. he literally wants to undermine the legitimate results of this election so he can stay out of trouble and not be branded the loser he actually is. >> what was he thinking about making that call to the secretary of state? do you think just he and the other big brains around him thought nobody would be

recording them, that that's just what he does? >> he was thinking, he's always done this. why should now be any different? if he believes that he deserves to win, no matter what it takes, no matter how many people have to commit sedition and other crimes against our constitution, then they should do it because he's donald, and he should get whatever he wants because that's what his you know, the problem is that it's causing incalculable damage to our system. you said, earlier, that you think that he could get away with shooting somebody on 5th avenue. the problem is he's shooting the constitution in the heart on pennsylvania avenue, and people who could stop him are not stopping him. and we are in extremely dangerous territory, right now. >> when does it end? >> you know, the -- the next couple of days are going to be extraordinarily interesting, and

by that, i mean terrifying because, i think, what happens in georgia will, in part, determine, or at least influence, what happens in the senate on wednesday. and either way, donald -- because donald doesn't really care about georgia. he only cares about what happens on -- on wednesday, and the fact that he's got over 140 republicans in the house, and over 11 senators willing to commit sedition, on his behalf, is probably making him feel confident. but, you know, i don't think it's going to happen. but we need -- what we need to keep in mind is that, for the republicans, this is a dress rehearsal. they're normalizing things, the way things have always been normalized for donald, so that the next time we have a close election, they're going to get away with it. >> something else, i don't get. if he likes mike pence, why would he set him up, the way he just did moments ago? is it just ignorance, that he

doesn't really get at this point, even though, all he is thinking about how wednesday actually works? because otherwise, he just set up mike pence to take the fall for it not going his way on wednesday when mike pence, as vp, has no role, other than a ceremonial, ministerial one, he has no discretion to change anything that happens on that day. >> first of all, we need to remember that every single relationship donald has is transactional. if you can be of use to him, he likes you. if you refuse to be of use to him, he doesn't care about you and will throw you under the bus. what he is doing is making other people believe that pence actually is capable of doing something to save donald, on wednesday, even though, as you just pointed out, that is not, at all, the case. so, by making other people believe that, he thinks that he's putting pence under more pressure. and again, i think it's going to come down to what happens

tomorrow, and how much more the republican party thinks they need to continue appeasing donald and his base. >> boy, i tell you. what an amazing, bizarre, you know, what ever kind of word that you want to put to it, that all of these hostile, aggressive, obnoxious actions, are actually a function of fear. mary trump, thank you for your take. i appreciate it. >> thank you so much, chris. >> all right. so, georgia's going to be a big deal. we'll decide what congress looks like, and how it acts. little question about that. how will it turn out? how do the democrats really think it may go for them? could they really win? georgia went blue, in november, in the big race. but, what will happen now? stacy abrams, really, the person responsible for shining a light on georgia and how things work there. that's the irony that the republicans are now saying it's the problem. this democrat is the one who lit that fire.

what's happening now? next.

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stacey abrams. what's with this stacey abrams? you know, your governor, your

governor and your secretary of state. they're petrified of stacey abrams. they say they're republicans. i really don't think they are. they can't be. >> what's up with this stacey abrams? why don't we ask her? here she is. look. you know, this is the bizarre world that we live in. you are being actively weaponized by this president, and we know why. you make a great foil for him with the people in georgia. what do you make of what we're seeing from him? and what is your take on what's happening in the state, in these elections? >> well, first of all, i think he's forgotten who he's here to talk about. and it's a sad day, when the best he can do, in order to rally the troops, is to spend too much time talking about me. we are spending our time talking about jon ossoff and raphael warnock, and we were proud to have vice president joe biden, soon-to-be president joe biden, here, in georgia to talk about

how we win these elections. and it's not by trying to re-litigate an election, that he's now lost in georgia four times. it's not by creating conspiracy theories, and spinning them out on hour-long phone calls. it's by doing the work that we've done, on the ground, knocking on doors, talking to voters. and really, connecting the dots between covid relief, good jobs, good access to healthcare, and justice. and those are only things we will get, if tomorrow, democrats turn out and vote for jon ossoff and raphael warnock. >> two things. one, about the state of play. and then, the next one, about the election, itself. state of play. respond to the following. why is stacey abrams saying that trump is wrong to raise questions about georgia? she was the first one to do it. now, he raises the questions, and they're not questions, anymore. what's your response? >> number one, my questions weren't about the outcome of the election. i never challenged the numbers. i challenged the system. and i fought to make certain that every vote that got cast, got counted.

i have no notion of whether those votes would be counted for me or not. but i fought to make sure every vote got counted. and that we never had to question, whether voters would be heard from again. what he is attempting to do is the exact opposite. he only likes the voters he likes to be heard. he is doing his best to dismantle the system. he is arguing against a system that we fixed through fair fight, and through the democratic party. that no matter where you lived in the state of georgia, if you filed an absentee ballot and you needed to fix a mistake, you were notified. if you were black or latino or asian-american, your ballot was twice as likely to be rejected. if you were young, it was five times more likely. this election, that wasn't the problem. and so, there is absolutely no comparison, except that both of us used the word vote. i am fighting against voter suppression, to make sure voter access is always available. and he is fighting to make himself the victor, by