hello to our viewers in the united states and around the world, welcome to "inside politics," i'm john king in washington, thank you for sharing this day with us, we're on a break right now, day four of testimony in the derek chauvin trial and we'll go back to court any moment as the proceedings resume after a quick morning break. on the stand for most of this morning, courtney ross, george floyd's girlfriend of nearly three years, through tears she recounted dates at a sculpture garden and a first kiss but she also talked about a major challenge in their lives and in their relationship, ms. ross acknowledging both she and mr. floyd suffered from opioid addiction. >> both floyd and i are -- our story, it's a classic story of how many people get addicted to opioids. we've both suffered from chronic

pain. addiction in my opinion is a lifelong struggle. >> going forward to may of 2020 was there a time when you thought he might be using again? >> yes. >> as we await the court proceedings to resume, which we're told will be in a few minutes, let's bring in our experts for insights so far. la laura coates, and police chief charles ramsey. laura, for someone unfamiliar with court proceedings they might think why would the prosecution bring up the fact that george floyd had a drug problem, had an opioid problem. the prosecutors know the defense would bring that up down the road. walk us through what you see as how and why the prosecutor is presenting this evidence in this way. >> it is a very prudent prosecutorial strategy. you don't want the defense to be able to down the road introduce

new things that might cast your victim in a bad light. things about opioid addiction although we know, john, it's viewed very differently in the world today in 2021, opioid abuse is not the vilifying factor that perhaps it once was, in a court proceeding. especially since you talk about it being, one, as a result of pain control and medication related, you also have the idea here of saying, do you ever want a defense attorney to say, why didn't the prosecution tell you about this? what didn't they want you to know? you know what they didn't want you to say. what else don't they want you to hear about? that would plant an effective seed of doubt for any juror to say, huh, i wonder if i'm actually getting the full story. now they have a preemptive strike, they have fronted the bad facts, now their job is to show how irrelevant prior drug use really is to the two questions at hand, whether there was reasonable force used and lethal force following any threat by george floyd, if any, and also whether that was a substantial causal factor in his death. they will refocus after they get

this bad fact preface out of the way. >> and chief, come in on that point, if you're listening to the testimony, it's clear what the defense wants to do. george floyd was no angel. george floyd was high. the officers on the scene were nervous. and so something horrible happened but you have to cut the officer some slack here. i heard you talking earlier this morning, i thought it was very important about police training of somebody who might be under the influence, somebody who might -- you might believe you're overmatched against when you look at size. the key point for the prosecution here is that this was not one officer against george floyd in the middle of a struggle. this happened after he was handcuffed and prone and restrained and if there had been any resisting it had long stopped. as the key elements of this played out. >> well, that's really what it's all about. i mean, this wasn't a situation where you had derek chauvin versus george floyd in terms of size and strength and all that sort of thing. you had four officers on the scene. he was handcuffed relatively quickly after he was taken out

of the car. he was already in restraints. the point in which he did provide some level of resistance is trying to get into the back of the car, but they were actually able to get him in the car, although they pulled him out the other way. once they got him down on the ground he was under control, and it's like, with any other use of force case, look at it from beginning to end. if force is necessary, you do what you have to do, but you reassess, reassess along the way. when it gets to ha point where there's no longer resistance, you have the person under control, the force stops. that did not happen in this case and that's the problem that the defense is going to have. i don't see how they overcome that. >> and laura, you talked earlier just about how if you're a prosecutor, and there are bad facts if you will or potentially bad facts you want to bring them in, you want to bring them in and air them out so there are no surprises later so the defense can't say why didn't the prosecutors tell you this or

that? also walk through the challenge of, you talked about this in the context of opening statements, and a long trial, trying to capture the narrative on day one is very important. it's pretty clear from the prosecution, please tell me if you think i'm wrong here, they're trying to say, yes, george floyd was a flawed individual, like many of us, like all of us, in fact. he was a flawed individual but they're also trying to humanize him in a way. is that to rebut or preputt if you will potential defense arguments or is it to convince the jury, yes, not an angel, but a decent human being? >> it's a combination of all those things. think of how every witness has referred to him. george, they've said, george, even having to talk to the witnesses and say through the prosecution, hold on a second, you're calling him george, did you know him prior to actually witnessing him take his last breaths and you had witness after witness say, no, i learned later him to be george floyd. at the same time they refer to chauvin, chauvin, chauvin. so you already have this built into the recipe here that may be

inadvertent. they're human izing. she talked about him as a father, in the minds of people who are watching this case, and before, remember his daughter perhaps talking about sitting on the shoulders of a former basketball player saying my daddy changed the world. they're bringing in different elements of him being a human, contrastingly it remains chauvin. this officer, this person, and only referring to him in terms of what duty of care would be owed, officer chauvin. you've got this dynamic at play they're going to have to continue to capitalize on. but john, you're right, this is going to be a marathon. what they told in opening statements, you and i and commentators are honing in, remembering things. jurors have the culmination of all of these things. if they are not repetitive and corroborating and adding layers to it they will fail. if they continue the themes. the idea of won't let up, won't get up, a duty of care is owed if they're in your custody, why

didn't chauvin act? what did george do? they're going to have to be consistent to make this an effective, long-term prosec prosecutorial strategy. >> the emotional testimony from george floyd's girlfriend about the struggles, the challenges and the joy of their relationship comes after a day yesterday in which they highlight, if you will, that's a terrible word to use, but i think the most provocative testimony was the body cam of officer chauvin when he arrived on the scene, something that we have not seen before. something that i'm sure caused even more trauma for the floyd family and his closest friends as you see this video. i want to listen just for a little bit. again the prosecution is making the case that officer chauvin may have been additionally in a difficult situation but that had long been resolved and he should have shown compassion, he should have followed his training, should have gotten up and taken his knee off the neck of george floyd. we did hear officer chauvin's take on what he viewed as a problematic situation. let's listen.

>> control this guy because he's a sizable guy. >> i got to get in the car. >> looks like he's probably on something. >> we got to control this guy, sizable guy, looks like he's on something. if you see that in a vacuum you might get sympathy for the officers on the scene. context, when that occurred, versus when mr. floyd was handcuffed on his chest prone for nine plus minutes, there's a disconnect there. what was your biggest takeaway as you see that? >> well, i mean, you know, when i heard that, one, he sounded pretty calm, considering he had to know at that point in time that george floyd had no pulse and possibility of him being dead was pretty high at that point. you couple that with his actions when he actually has a knee on the neck, how relaxed he looks, you know, sunglasses on top of his head, hand on his hip, i mean, he comes off as cold-blooded. that's the thirst thing i

thought, if you accidentally, you know, killed somebody, you'd think he'd be upset. he doesn't seem to be upset. trying to justify himself, which of course, that's not justifiable, but to me he came off as just being very cold and that's, to me, is going to play against him. >> you agree with that, laura? >> you know, i have a different spin on it but i do understand what charles ramsey is talking about and i defer to his extraordinary expertise. what i heard was a man believing in that moment, and being aware that he knew he had to explain himself. up until that moment in time he felt no need to even respond. remember we heard from donald williams, the mma fighting witness talking about how i never even got a reaction. i tried to go to officer thao. i called the police because i didn't have a human connection to people on the scene. i wasn't getting a response. at that moment in time chauvin knew then he had to explain himself. he was on notice that he had been told by his fellow officers, forget the crowd, his fellow officers that, is this what we're supposed to be doing? are you sure what's happening here?

that to me will actually turn this case in a very profound way. if he knew then, not these discussions about toxicology reports or what did an autopsy say, none of which he would ever have been privy to and forget what he knew about the identity of people in a contact list on a phone, and that moment he knew, he had to answer for something. and this idea of this being a david and goliath story when you've got somebody prone, as charles ramsey talked about, handcuffed, non-responsive, he is, by his own admission, he's said i've got some explaining to do. will he take the stand to do so? that's the question. >> that is the question going forward. we're still on the prosecution side of the case, we'll see how that plays out. laura coates and steve ramsey will stay with us, but in the meantime a quick break. other news, the coronavirus pandemic, big announcement from pfizer how long its vaccine appears to be effective after you get both doses. so get relief fast. only tylenol rapid release gels

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we're standing by waiting for the trial of derek chauvin to go live in minneapolis. we'll take you back live in the courtroom as soon as that happens. positive news from one of the covid vaccine manufacturers how long immunity lasts after you're fully vaccinated. the data from biontech, their vaccine is shown to be 91% effective at least six months after the second dose. could be longer. let's bring in for analysis dr. rob davidson, an emergency room physician in west michigan, executive director of the committee to protect medicare. it's good to see you, doctor, what does that tell you? how encouraging is the question in that, you know, many americans as they get their vaccine, many people watching around the world, are wondering, how long is this good for? >> 91% is a huge number, the fact it's there at six months is likely to be well over 80%, significantly longer beyond that. we've been telling people this,

they'll follow the data from original studies, see how long their immunity lasts and then get updates. most of us are reasonably certain within a year or two we'll have to get a booster, may have to get boosters again, some of the variants popping up but it's generally exciting. . we just need to get more people vaccinated. >> the numbers are going up as more vaccinations are put around the country but there we do see hesitancy in some quarters. the administration starting a new ad campaign today trying to address that head on. let's listen to just a snippet. ♪ get a call from a friend to remind you that you're not alone ♪ ♪ and you know deep down inside it's going to be all right ♪ >> that's just one of many efforts there, in the end henry louis gates, trying to address hesitancy in the black community.

you're in western michigan, where are the problems, the communities you're seeing hesitancy and people need more outreach? >> i think hesitancy is one thing. we can overcome. it's a reasonable response. people see something that seems new, something that's maybe a little scary and they need to be encouraged that this is safe and effective, and i think that we can get over that. i think the resistance is the challenge, and that all stems from the politicization of all of this. rand paul jousting with anthony fauci over masks and the coronavirus and what we really need is folks on both sides to fight over infrastructure, fight over taxes and come together on public health. we eradicated polio because everyone decided polio was something to eradicate. people lined up to get the polio vaccine. we need everybody on the same page. >> amen. that would be healthy. minor disagreements about it, be my guest but you have this race, essentially, of the vaccinations against what is now, again, a rising case count and the spread of these variants and, again, your state is exhibit "a" in

many ways when you look at it. i want to put the map of the united states up on the screen right now. 25 states, half of the states now you see on our map in red and orange, heading in the wrong direction. michigan is bright red, that means 50% more new infections this week compared to the data last week. only seven states in green trending down. i would note, i don't think it's a surprise, most of those, all but one, are in the southern part of the country where it's getting warmer faster. 67,000 new infections, dr. davidson, reported yesterday. i'm sorry, sir, i need to interrupt the conversation, and take everybody back to minneapolis now, day four of testimony in the trial of derek chauvin resuming. >> hennepin county ems. >> i started in june of 2017. >> and is your title paramedic? >> yes. >> okay. and has that been the case since you started, for that past three to four year period, you've been a paramedic by title? >> yeah. >> what's the training that goes

into becoming a paramedic? >> prior to being -- becoming a paramedic you have to be an emt already, which is a fairly short course. and then paramedic school was about 12 months long. >> so just to back you up you said to have an an emt first, what's an emt? >> it's just a -- it's a lower level certification, a lot more limited in your scope and skills and what you can do. to give an example my emt course was like a six credit college course. >> so you became an emt in college? >> no, i actually attended a course when i was a senior in high school. >> okay. >> so let's start there in terms of what your training was, first of becoming an emt and then what

you went through for that. >> i attended an emt course in ridgewater my senior year of high school, ridgewater college in hutchinson, and i started on a volunteer ambulance, out where i grew up. >> was that while you were still in high school? >> yeah, kind of -- pretty much as i was graduating i started that. >> so you said that there's an additional training path, an additional certification that's required to become a paramedic. is that right? >> yes. >> so did you do that immediately afterward or was that -- was there some time in between? >> a little time in between. i started my paramedic course, would have been 2012 in may, with hcmc, and then graduated in may of 2013.

>> so you went through training to become a paramedic at hcmc from 2012 to 2013. is that what you said? >> yes. >> what does that training entail to become a paramedic? >> there's a lot of book work. and a lot of hands on skills training, clinical ride alongs on an ambulance and different clinicals throughout the hospital. >> is that a year long training? >> yeah, the whole course is a year. >> and did you complete that successfully? >> yes. >> is there additional testing or certification requirements you have to go through to become a paramedic? >> yes. >> can you just describe that a little bit, please? >> there's a written exam that we have to take to get our certification, and also a skills exam. >> and did you complete that in 2013? >> yes. >> and what about to maintain your license or status as a

paramedic, is there continuing credit or education you have to go through? >> yeah, we have to recertify every two years. >> and are you up to date on all that certification? >> i am. >> so let's talk about your job on a day-to-day basis, what do you do as a paramedic at hennepin ems? >> i work with my partner on an ambulance, we respond to 911 calls, primarily medical emergencies, and provide care to our patients and transport them to the hospital. >> what kinds of calls do you get? you said medical calls. can those vary? >> yeah. anything somebody would call 911 for. >> have some of those calls been life threatening type emergencies? >> yes. >> have some of those calls been

cardiac in nature? >> yes. >> drug overdoses, things like that? >> yes. >> other types of things? what else did you respond to? >> i guess mental health problems are included in that as well. >> what is your primary objective, what is your job when you go out to a scene as a paramedic? >> to provide the best care i can for my patient, and bring them safely to the hospital. the appropriate hospital they need to go to. and also advocate for them when i need to. >> and when you say advocate, what do you mean by that? >> just make sure that their complaint or their problem is heard, and communicate it effectively to the receiving hospital as to why they're in the emergency room. >> so when you -- when you're talking about advocating, are you -- as part of your process s paramedic, is that to hear and

understand what the patient needs and is going through and pass on that information to the hospital? >> correct. >> i'm going to direct your attention to may 25th, memorial day of last year, were you on duty as a paramedic with hennepin ems on that date? >> i was. >> and was there a call that you responded to that evening in the area of 38th and chicago? >> yes. >> what was the nature of that call? how did you become aware of it? >> we were dispatched -- we have -- our screen where we get our calls on, we were dispatched in our notes, we were going code 2 for someone with a mouth injury and pd was on scene. >> and when you say code 2, what

does code 2 mean? >> routine, so no lights or sirens, normal driving. >> you said routine, no lights or sirens, does that -- what does that indicate to you in terms of the criticality or how serious that call might be? >> it would be pretty low criticality. yeah, no life threatening indication if we're going code 2. >> okay. so where were you coming from when you heard about this code 2? >> we were downtown at hcmu when we got it. >> and do you get into your ambulance at that time, assuming you were responding to a code 2 call? >> yeah, i believe we were already in it. >> okay. >> did the nature of that call or did the code level of that call change at some point? >> it did.

about a minute and a half after we got it, i believe. >> and what was the change? >> we got a note saying code 3. so upgraded the lights and sirens, emergent response to the scene. >> okay. and at that point in time did you have anymore information about what the code 3 was? >> no, not at that point. >> so you -- kid you proceed as if -- while you were on route did you then upgrade in terms of your response to a code 3? >> yes. >> meaning did you turn on the lights and sirens? >> yeah. >> and ultimately did you arrive at that location, the 38th and chicago location? >> we did. >> what did you see when you arrived on scene? >> as we were pulling up to the

scene i saw multiple officers on the side of the road with our patient lying on the ground next to a squad car. >> so as you were pulling up was that the position that you observed them in, meaning the officers on top of the patient next to the squad car? >> yes. >> could you tell at that point as you were approaching what the situation was, or what you -- what the condition of the patient was at that moment? >> no, there was multiple officers on top of the patient when we pulled up at that point. we assumed -- i should say i assumed that there was potentially some struggle still because they were still on top

of him. so that was my assumption when we pulled up. >> so when you got to the scene, having no additional information, seeing what you saw, that's what was going through your mind, is that right? >> yes. >> so when you got to the scene what did you do next? >> parked the ambulance near the patient and got out. i walked to the back of the ambulance, and my partner walked over to check on the patient. >> and what did you see when you got out of the ambulance in terms of the patient's condition at that point? >> i was standing a little ways away so i couldn't get -- my partner would have a more accurate description of his condition at that point but from what i could see where i was at i didn't -- i didn't see any breathing or movement or anything like that. >> did he appear to be unresponsive to you at that

point in time? >> from what i could tell just standing from a distance, yes. >> and was he in handcuffs? >> yes. >> and we're describing the patient here, was that patient later identified as george floyd? >> yes. >> so when you got out your partner first approached, is that right? what were you doing at that initial point in time when you first got there? >> as he went to check on the patient i was watching him to kind of get a cue on what we were going to do next because, you know, we're still determining what the patient's condition was, so i was kind of waiting for him to go check on the patient and then know what to do next. >> and at that point in time when you were standing outside and your partner was approaching the patient did you see a

struggle of any kind going on, any movement, anything like that? >> no. >> okay. so after your partner first approached, did you see what he was doing? >> yeah, he checked a pulse on his neck, a carotid pulse, and also he checked the patient's pupils? >> and did you discuss with your partner at that point next steps? >> yeah, he walked back towards me, and i asked, is he in cardiac arrest, and he said i think so. >> so you used the word cardiac arrest, what does that mean? >> it's a term we're going to use for anybody that's not responsive and not breathing, and doesn't have a pulse currently. >> okay. so essentially does that mean that someone's heart has

stopped? >> yeah. >> okay. are there multiple things that can cause someone's heart to stop? >> absolutely, yes. >> okay. so when you say cardiac arrest you're dealing with a patient whose heart has stopped. is that an emergency? >> yes. >> what did you guys -- knowing that you had an individual, george floyd, in cardiac arrest, what did you decide to do? >> so we -- my partner said let's just get him in the truck so i unloaded our stretcher to bring to the patient. to place him in the ambulance. >> and what were you -- what was the reason for getting him into the truck? >> all of our equipment at that point was in the truck for resuscitating a patient, and we

also didn't have the -- there yet, which they work with us on critical patients like that, and help us a lot. so kind of for resource management we need to get in the truck and on top of that there was also a crowd of people that appeared very upset on the sidewalk and there was some yelling and stuff and we -- in my mind, at least, we also wanted to get away from that because running a cardiac arrest it takes a lot of mental power and focus and, you know, it can be taxing on our abilities so we want to do that in the optimum environment we can, and since the ambulance was right there he want to be in that controlled space to start resuscitation. >> and was part of your reason to move as you described, to give the best care you could so that you could be focused and away from whatever distractions were happening outside? >> yes. >> and you described hearing

people, you know, yelling or loud voices but was anybody -- was there a physical fight or anything like that happening while you were there? >> not that i saw, no. >> but you decided it would be best for the patient to move to a controlled setting and do your work on the ambulance, is that right? >> yeah, and all of our equipment was there. >> you also mentioned fire. tell me why it's important to have fire assist in a situation like this. >> it was just a lot of different skills we were going to be doing on a patient to try to resuscitate them, and we work closely with minneapolis fire, they're all emts. they work with us on resuscitating a patient, doing things like breathing for them with like a bvm to help a patient breathe or do chest compressions, stuff like that. >> okay. so i'm going to break down some of the things you said. you used the word -- the term bvm. >> sorry, yeah, it's just a -- it's a thing you squeeze to

breathe for your patient, essentially. >> to assist with -- well, if someone's not breathing is that a part of the process to try to resuscitate the respiration? >> yes. >> we're using the word fire, we're talking about the minneapolis fire department. is that right? >> yes. >> and a lot of people's minds the fire department fights fires but you're describing they're also emts, so is it typical for them to assist you with a patient who's in extreme distress or a cardiac arrest or something like that. >> yes, it is. >> and you said that there's a lot of work to do. maybe you could explain for the jury why it takes so many people. what's the process that you typically go through when you're trying to resuscitate a patient in that state? >> we were doing things like chest compressions to hopefully circulate blood through their body, and you also need to control their airway. there's some sort of airway that has to be placed and we have to

breathe for them. we need to gain vascular access to an i.v. to give medications to try to resuscitate them as well as a cardiac monitor, which is going to be monitoring a couple different things, but mainly their heart rhythm. >> and to do all those things at the same time i assume you would need more than one person at least. >> yeah, it's just the more help you have you can get it done quicker and kind of running -- once you have everything established it can run much smoother but that initial part is helpful having resources. >> okay. all right, i'm going to just back you up to when you got onto the scene, so that first initial interaction you had. i'm going to play a clip from what's already been admitted as exhibit 47 and we're just going

to play a clip from 20:27:35 to 20:29:45. if we could do that now. >> not responsive right now. >> no. >> get off him. >> are you serious ? >> in front of you, bro?

>> . >> get out of the way. >> don't touch -- do not -- don't touch me .

>> you want one of us to ride with? >> yeah. >> ride with? >> yeah. >> i don't have my phone. >> down the street. >> okay. >> all right, so they can take that down. just to kind of walk through that clip, the beginning of that clip there was an individual with a hat bending down over the head of mr. floyd. was that you or your partner? >> that would have been my partner. >> and what's your partner's name. >> derek. >> and what's his last name? >> smith. >> and when you initially at the beginning of that clip, when mr.

smith was bending down over mr. floyd was that the point in time when he was checking for a pulse and pupils that you described? >> yes. >> and you may have been out of the frame for that but what were you doing? >> i was at the back of the ambulance, i was standing in the back of the ambulance. >> and while your partner was checking for a pulse, and checking pupils, were the officers still on top of george floyd while that process was going on? >> yeah. >> i'm just going to show you a different clip with a different view of -- within that time frame. we're going to publish what's already been admitted as exhibit 15. but just a short clip from that, which will be from 6:45.28 to 8:10.29 if we could publish that, please.

>> bro, he's not even fucking moving, get off of his neck. >> you're on him. >> bro, are you serious? you're going to keep your -- on his neck. yeah, bitch -- bro. i swear i'll slap the fuck out of both of y'all. he's just going to let him keep his hand on his neck. you're a bitch. you're going to let him kill that man in front of you, bro? >> like, what? >> he's not even -- bro, this is not even -- >> we've got to deal with this shit. >> you're not going to help us, bro. >> he black, they don't care. >> they don't care, bro. >> you going to just sit there with your knee -- you're a real

man for that, bro, he in handcuffs, bro, you're a real man, bro, you're a real man, bro. >> the fact that you guys aren't checking his pulse and doing compressions if he needs that, you guys are -- >> oh, my god, bro. >> they just -- come on. >> i have your name tag, bitch. >> that's not very professional. >> it don't matter. >> freedom of speech. >> you can put that down. so at the end of that clip there's another individual without a hat toward the head of mr. floyd. was that you in that position at the end? >> yes. >> and you are seen bending down over mr. floyd and there was a gesture made with your hand. what were you attempting to do at that point in time? >> just have the officer move. >> and again, at the -- did you

have a conversation at that point? or was there -- what was the intent behind that? >> i don't recall if i said anything or not, i'm not sure. >> and why did you need the officer to move? >> so we could move the patient. >> and then were you continuing to assist on the head side of mr. floyd while the patient, mr. floyd, was moved? >> yes. >> i believe there's a clip in there where you were holding or had your hands near his head, what were you trying to do there? >> i was just trying to keep it from slamming down on the pavement as we moved him over. >> and how would you describe sort of the way that mr. floyd was moved to the stretcher? >> what do you mean by that? >> that wasn't a very good question. well, you were trying to keep his head from slamming into the pavement. why is that? >> because he was, i guess, limp

would be the best description. he wasn't -- he was unresponsive and wasn't holding his head up or anything like that. >> were you trying to protect his head? >> yeah. >> at that point, okay. all right, so what happened next? we saw the initial clip where mr. floyd was loaded up onto the ambulance. did an officer come with you? >> yes. >> and what was the purpose of that? >> to do chest compressions for us. >> and was part of that the reason you described in terms of having -- you need more people to work on a patient in this case, in this situation? >> yes. >> so what did -- what did you do at that point in time? >> you can see in the video my partner and i had a brief discussion that we were going to move a couple blocks away. >> and was that the reasons you

described earlier? >> yes. >> did you ultimately go to another location? >> yeah, i went to the front and drove the ambulance, and went to 36th and park. >> okay. and i am going to show just you, not the jury, an exhibit that has not yet been admitted but if we could just put exhibit 60 -- i'm sorry, 73 on the screen please. so you should see in front of you a map. does that appear in front of you? >> yes. >> and does that show a map of the area where you were on may 25th, 2020? >> yes. >> and does it show both cup foods and sort of where the ambulance ultimately parked for a period of time to render assistance?

>> yes. >> your honor, i'd offer exhibit 73. >> no objection, your honor. >> 73's received. >> and we'd ask permission to publish that to the jury. all right. so now that's up on the screen. if you could just describe where you went and how you got there. >> i would have gone down 38th and then up park here. >> and if you could just describe -- you had talked about the reason to move but why did you need to stop? >> to -- like i said, it's resource intensive, doing resuscitation, so i needed to be in back to work with my partner and resuscitating mr. floyd. >> and at that point you were -- it was just the two of you plus

this officer, is that right? >> yes. >> did your partner need your assistance to perform those resuscitative efforts? >> yes. >> so what -- did you ultimately park and then go back to assist in the back of the balance? -- ambulance? >> i did. >> what was going on when you were -- when you got back there? >> i can't remember everything that was going on at that exact moment when i walked into the ambulance, but -- >> let's start with this. had his condition -- had mr. floyd's condition improved? had he gotten better? >> no. i remember walking in and the cardiac monitor was showing -- >> stop you there, that's a word that not a lot of people know.

what is asistoli. >> flat lined is the most layperson friendly term but basically tells us your heart isn't really doing anything at that moment. >> so there's essentially no activity in the heart? >> yes. >> so when you came back and saw that the monitor showed asistoli, what's the significance of that, in terms of a patient's condition? >> it's not a good sign. for a successful resuscitation. >> and is that -- can you explain why? why is that? >> basically just because your heart isn't doing anything at that moment. there's not -- it's not pumping blood. so it's not -- it's not a good sign for a good outcome. >> so what did you do, noticing that he was in asistoli and your

partner had been working on him while you were driving as well. is that right? >> yes. >> how did you join in in those efforts? >> a couple different things. worked on getting him placed on a lucas device, which does chest compressions. >> okay, can we just stop for a sec so you can explain what the lucas device is. >> it's a device you place over their chest that has a plunger that does compressions for us to do chest compressions to circulate blood. >> and i'm going to put on the screen what's already been admitted as exhibit 62. all right. so exhibit 62 is on the screen. can you just describe what's shown here and what you're

doing? >> there's a backboard that goes behind the patient and has to like click in and connect to it in order to work so i was hooking it up. >> is that part of the lucas device? >> yes. >> so when you say backboard, maybe you could use your stylus or your finger to circle or point to what you're talking about. >> that little yellow -- it's a piece there, it's a board that goes all the way across their back. >> okay. and to set it up has to be positioned in a certain way, is that right? >> yes. >> so you were assisting with getting that set up. and the other hand here, is that the other officer on the ambulance with you at that time? >> yes. >> and then the other person behind you is that your partner, mr. smith? >> yes. >> and we'll move to exhibit 63, which has already been admitted.

once you get the lucas device going, how does it assist in this process in getting prom sessions going? >> i'm not sure what you mean. >> is it done sort of as a way to replace or make it so that hand cpr, you know the compressions that people might think of when they think of cpr, does it do that for you instead. >> it does that for us instead, yes. >> and can you just sort of describe how that works, maybe not the mechanics of the machine, but what you see happening when you see somebody on a lucas device? >> that center plunger right on his chest, that goes -- moves up and down and does the compressions. >> okay. so is it -- does it also free up your hands to do other things

while there are compressions being given by the machine? >> yes. >> okay, so after the lucas device is set up -- and before we actually move on, did you notice injuries on mr. floyd as well, while you were working on him? >> i wasn't really examining him at the time for injuries. but i noticed some blood near his mouth. >> okay. but were those your primary concern at that point? >> no. >> and why is that? >> just on glance it looked like a minor injury and it's not really a concern because we're worried about resuscitating him. >> because at that point he didn't have a heartbeat, right? >> yes. >> so now in this picture, 63, which one of these individuals are you -- is you? >> i'm the one near the patient's head. >> so what are you doing there? >> placing an i-gel airway

device. >> what is that device and what does it do? >> you place it on their mouth. it goes near the glotic opening to their trachea. it means you can use that bvm, that bag i was talking about to breathe for them and ventilate them. >> and why is that important to what you're doing? >> it's a part of securing the airway to make sure liquid or fluid or vomit doesn't end up in their lungs and also helps us deliver oxygen and ventilate effectively. >> and at that point i assume that you're doing this because he's not breathing. >> yes. >> okay. meaning no respirations are happening for him so you're trying to use your equipment to do that. is that right? >> yes. >> did you ultimately -- well,

let's move to exhibit 64. which has already been admitted. yes. so were you ultimately able to place that airway -- >> yes. >> and is this in exhibit 64 part of the process you're working on with respect to mr. floyd's head and face and mouth area. >> uh-huh. >> yes? >> yes. >> and your partner, what's he doing at that point in time? >> he is working on getting iv access. >> you talked about iv access before. what was the purpose of getting iv access in this -- for his treatment, for mr. floyd's treatment. >> to administer medications. >> and what were the medications that were administered to mr. floyd. >> all of them that we would

have given? >> well, what -- i don't know if it's a long list but what was the primary purpose? what were you trying to give him? >> epinephrine is a first line medication when somebody's in cardiac arrest. >> did you give him epinephrine? >> yes. >> and why is that? when you say the first line for cardiac arrest, what does it do? >> helps to restart their heart. >> see a side bar conversation here during the continuing testimony in the trial of derek chauvin while the emt who responded, paramedic who responded to the scene now on the stand. let's bring in our legal analyst laura coates, the prosecutor is going through the care and treatment the paramedics tried to give mr. floyd after they removed him from the scene but also very important testimony about what this paramedic saw

when he first arrived on the scene. >> there has been, and you have the affect here of this being too little, too late. you're seeing his powerful statement, when i first arrived on the scene there were multiple officers who were still on top of him. i assumed there was some sort of continuing struggle because they were still on top of him and then learning later he was unresponsive, seeing and watching him in his own personal observations, he did not appear to be responsive at all or breathing and then you see him even being lifted into the ambulance and trying to perform cutting off the shirt, trying to perform any life-saving measures but it's very obvious that he's explaining what didn't happen. >> laura, thank you, back into the questioning now. you said that's something -- can you rephrase, repeat what you said just so i recall? >> it's -- at that point it's something we'll give to hopefully have their heart start working again. >> is that one of the things you do as a standard practice with a cardiac arrest? >> yes. >> and do you also give sodium

bicarbonate as one of your treatment options for a cardiac arrest as well. >> yes. >> and is that -- does that provide assistance if there's been down time or some extended period of time without a pulse? >> please rephrase. >> why do you give sodium bicarbonate? >> based on my training that i was given it's to help with acidosis. >> and what is acidosis? >> essentially your ph would be low, and there's many different things that can be causing that. >> but why is it bad to have low ph? >> i won't dive into the details on it because i'm not an expert. but based on my training it needs to be -- acidosis is bad

and we need to work on correcting that. >> is acidosis something that can be caused by things like hypoxia? >> object, beyond the scope of his knowledge. >> sustained. >> when you're talking about acidosis, what are you trying to treat in the moment? what are you dealing with? >> i'm giving sodium bicarb to help to optimize the patient's condition for a successful resuscitation. >> in terms of your work as a paramedic when you come upon somebody who is in cardiac arrest is giving medications like epinephrine and sodium bicarbonate a standard treatment plan for you? >> yes. >> i believe we just took down exhibit 64. we're going to just put up

exhibit 65. okay. maybe if we could just go back to 64 for a second because i'm not quite sure which exhibit i had on there. i believe we had 64 up. let's move to 65. okay, and, again, could you just describe what you're doing at this moment, in exhibit 65? >> at that moment i am working on securing the i-gel airway device in my right hand there, that blue thing is a tube holder we call it to put in a patient's mouth to keep the airway device in place. >> okay. >> and while you're working on the airway, is your partner working on the iv. >> yes. >> and was that for purposes of

administering the medications we discussed? >> yes. >> we can take that down, thank you. at some point did the minneapolis fire department arrive to your location to assist? >> yes. >> and what was mr. floyd's condition at that point in time when they arrived? >> the same. >> it hadn't improved, is that right? >> no. >> okay. what did you do when the fire -- well, how many firefighters came? >> i don't know that i can remember for sure how many were in the back but i believe it was two but i'm not 100% sure. >> did your role change at that point when the firefighters arrived. >> yeah. >> what did you do at that point? >> i believe at that point i started working on getting --

working on iv access. >> and was there sort of a switch of jobs when the firefighters came in? >> yeah, at some point the officer stepped out and i kind of moved down to near where he was sitting. >> okay. so when the firefighters came did you feel like there were enough people to do what you needed to do for mr. floyd in order to get him where he needed to go? >> yeah. >> so you said the officer stepped off, did one of the firefighters take over with respect to what you were working on in the airway? >> yeah, the airway was established. so they're working on squeezing that bag to breathe for the patient. >> and maybe you could just describe how that works. does someone need to squeeze the bag in order to provide -- how does it work? >> it's just a bag that you're going to squeeze roughly every five to six seconds to breathe for the patients. >> and so after you have