rely on the experts at 1800petmeds for the same medications as the vet, but for less with fast free shipping. visit petmeds.com today. good evening. we are following breaking news, tonight. a mass shooting in brian, texas, northwest of houston. just a few miles from texas a and m university. it happened at a local-cabinet

company. he is now in custody. chief says at least one person has died. at least five are wounded. including a state trooper who was shot pursuing the suspect. we have a crew on the scene gathering information. and we bring that to you, live, ahead, later in the hour once we know more. today, in the derek chauvin trial, experts casting yet more doubt on the notion that some other existing medical condition killed george floyd. that, and a disturbing account of the man's final seconds alive. cnn's sara sidner, tonight, reports. >> that's the moment the life goes out of his body. >> reporter: today, the prosecutor's expert-medical witness did not hold back. >> mr. floyd died from a low level of oxygen. and this caused damage to his brain that we see. and it, also, caused a arrhythmia that caused his heart to stop. >> reporter: dr. martin tobin pointed to the officer's actions

saying george floyd died because of officers created a scenario, in which floyd's lungs were put into a vice-like grip. >> almost to the effect as if a surgeon had gone in, and removed the lung. not quite but along those lines. >> reporter: dr. tobin said four things caused floyd to stop breathing, including floyd's position on the concrete. allowing no room for his lungs to expand. >> you mentioned several reasons for mr. floyd's low oxygen. you mentioned, one, handcuffs and the street, right? >> correct. >> you mention, knee on the neck. >> yep. >> prone position. >> yep. >> and then, the knee on the back, arm, and side. were those the four? >> yep. these are the four. >> reporter: the doctor, also, testified about whether drugs were the culprit that killed george floyd. as former-officer derek chauvin's attorney has suggested. to that, dr. tobin said, floyd had not taken a proper breath

for nine minutes and 50 seconds when paramedics finally got a breathing tube in him. and by that point, carbon dioxide in floyd's body had reached lethal levels. >> what's the punch line? >> the significance of all of that is it's a second reason why you know fentanyl is not causing the depression of his respiration. solely, explained by what you expect to happen, in somebody who doesn't have any ventilation given to them for nine minutes and 50 seconds. >> reporter: on cross-examination, chauvin's attorney pushed dr. tobin on two main issues. the potential effect of drugs on floyd's body and his breathing, and his heart disease. >> that's going to affect blood flow in -- in -- in a person, right? it's going to make the body work a little harder to get the blood through the body? >> no, not really. it's not going to do that. >> how does that affect a person's respiratory?

>> you would expect that he would be complaining of chest pain. and you would be expect that he would be demonstrating a very rapid respiratory rate. we don't see either. >> reporter: the last witness of the day? also, a doctor. backed up dr. tobin's testimony that drugs did not cause floyd's death. >> when you watch those videos, and you -- we go through them. what is his respiration? he is breathing. he's talking. he's not snoring. he is saying, please, please, get off of me. i want to breathe. i can't breathe. that is not a fentanyl overdose. that is somebody, begging to breathe. >> sara sidner joins us, now, from outside the courthouse. how did the jury react to the medical expert's testimony, today? >> they reacted, particularly, to dr. tobin. dr. martin tobin there, that you heard with the slight-irish accent. he was so pointed. and he, at one point, had the jury try different things to show them, exactly, sort of, how

breathing works. and use their own hands to touch parts of their neck that he was referring to. and almost all -- all-but-three jurors were doing that. and at one point, anderson, the judge says, to him and the jurors, now, listen. you don't have to do this. after an objection from the defense. you don't have to do this. you don't have to do what he says. but you can, if you want. and they did continue to do, exactly, what dr. martin asked them to do. dr. martin tobin. you know, in touching different parts of they neck, so that they could understand, exactly, what he was talking about when floyd was unable to breathe. pretty remarkable, anderson. >> interesting. sara sidner, appreciate it. thanks. i want to bring in cnn legal analyst, laura coates, former federal prosecutor and defense attorney, mark o'mara. how effective do you think he was? >> oh, he was absolutely the most-compelling witness that we have had, so far. and that includes the emotional testimony that we saw from last week. from the age ranging from 9 years old to somebody more than

half a century older. you have had all the law-enforcement officials. no one expected this moment. as opposed to a medical examiner and autopsy to be this captivating. but his methodical approach. his cadence. the rhythm of his information. the way, in which he presented, in very digestible pieces. if you didn't know what a pulmonologist was before he got up there. you certainly were following along with the demonstratives and you were actually understanding and watching through the lens now of an expert who is pointing out different nuances. the manipulation of handcuffs. identifying the four factors that contributed to the loss of oxygen, as sara talked about. the definition, essentially, of torture. and this notion. this image, that's indelible in my mind, anderson, of a man, reduced to trying to breathe by trying to use his knuckles. his finger. his shoulder. all, to no avail. and still, to have the knee on the neck, and the pressure to 91

pounds on his body on his neck. it's an image that the jury won't be able to get out of their minds, either. >> mark, how effective was that? also, to have the jury participate and as we heard there was an objection from the defense on that. >> it was amazingly effective, because when you have a witness or if the lawyer can be the guide for the jury. can actually walk them through an otherwise-somewhat-complicated series of events. then, that person is going to be the -- the guide for the jury, all the way through. and what happened here was dr. tobin just literally became that person. from the, like laura said, the voice, the irish accent helps. but much more importantly, he actually brought them into his explanation. the hand on the neck was great. and -- and really got the jury involved even with the objection. but even when he had them counting the breaths. because, if you remember what he said, he goes, when you count them, yourself, then you'll hear. and i will tell you, i thought

that the respiration counting was one of the most specific and -- and very interesting points of evidence. because that completely destroyed the suggestion that fentanyl and what it causes, a decrease in respiration, was just one of the high points of the defense' presentation, so far, through cross. he completely destroyed that. and, of course, other witnesses, then destroyed some other possibilities of a defense. i -- i thought this witness, as laura said, the most compelling because he, literally, walked the jury all the way through the state's case. >> and, laura, it is very important, what mark said, about, you know, the defense, clearly, is -- is pushing, you know, potential-drug use as an issue. do you agree that tobin did a very effective job at, kind of, batting that away? >> he did. here's how. you want your witness, particularly an expert witness, to establish that rapport, very quickly, with your jurors. they are the ones who matter. you want them, as people who are

assessing and evaluating the credibility of witnesses, to be able to feel like this person is informative. not just simply trying to influence me. it's my job, as the juror, to, ultimately, be the fact finder, they say. and so, i need somebody that i can trust. and so, his sort of ability to not only lay out the information, through the vantage point of an expert, as popposed to a layman identifying new things but also to address and resolve statements. remember, there was even that moment talking about this phrase we keep hearing about, anderson. if you can talk, you can breathe. we even heard the audio-body cam of derek chauvin making that statement. almost taunting george floyd. sounds like a whole lot of oxygen there, for someone who condition breathe, to paraphrase his words. you had him describe exactly what the human body is capable of doing, even though oxygen deprivation is imminent. he walks us through that. he walked the jury through that. but it already established all of the rapport and the credibility, as somebody who is

not a paid expert. had volunteered his services. had written the textbook on these things. and provided demonstratives, kind of, like crash-test dummies looking at the efficacy of an airbag. he was able to have people, in the moment, visualizing it. these jurors were no longer flies on the wall, eyes of bystanders, they are participants. that's exactly where you want to be as a prosecutor. >> mark, you thought the defense actually missed a few opportunities today. >> i really thought they did because i think they allowed toobin to go way beyond his area of expertise. i thought they should have been objecting to a lot more of what he was saying. he is a pulmonologist. he is a great one. he can talk about breath. he can talk about respiration. but when he starts talking about everything else that he did to give the state the best evidence that they could. again, destroying the idea of the fentanyl intoxication. even the meth intoxication. i thought that the defense should have really honed him in, a lot more.

particularly, when you have such an effective witness. because you have to try and at least interrupt the flow, interrupt the cadence. and i thought the defense just, sort of, got lulled to -- to, you know, sitting there listening to how intriguing his -- he was. and i, also, wanted to say that i thought the state did a masterful job, through this witness, of leaving the knee on neck sort of behind, a little bit. because again, it was questionable, is the knee on the neck the whole time? all of it's there. they shifted from knee on neck to just full on body-on-body compression and i think that is, really, what caused the death. we now know that to believe dr. toobin. and i think that was a great way to sort of move over to something they can truly justify, rather than just the knee on neck. >> mark o'mara, laura coates. appreciate it. we are joined, next, by george floyd's cousin to talk about what she and other family members think about the trial, thus far. a suspect in custody.

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that's -- that's interesting. >> yes. the first time that the video was sent to me, i actually only listened to, maybe, you know, 15-to-20 seconds of it. i heard his voice, and that was confirmation, for me, that it was actually so i did not watch it, again. >> it was just too painful to watch? >> it was too painful to watch. it was painful to actually hear his cries out. him crying out was -- was painful. so, i couldn't even imagine allowing myself to actually watch it. >> i -- i know, before the trial -- before the trial started, you said you were pessimistically optimistic about what would happen in court. i'm wondering how you feel, now? >> well, i mean, i -- i thought today was a good day for the prosecution and for us. and hearing the testimony from

the doctor, who, you know, sort of, reiterated what we've known all along. was that, his death was from him not being able to actually breathe, and not a drug overdose, as has been tried -- they have been trying to allude to. so, yeah, pessimistically optimistic was just my position. because, you know, we've seen this time and time, again. where the outcome is not what we would like to have happen. so, while i think i see some very good points on our side, i still reserve the right to say that it's a foregone conclusion that we'll get a conviction. >> are you -- are you -- i don't know -- pleased is the right word -- but -- but you think the prosecution is -- is working well? >> i think so. i -- i think mr. blackwell -- you know, i -- i really like the way that the opening statement was done. it really, for me, kind of

spelled it out. you know, line by line. we had a -- a good view of what the whole process was. you know, watching the tape. breaking it down for us. i thought that he did an amazing job with that. and then, all of the witness to come back, and just kind of support what he laid out in the beginning. so, i feel good about what the prosecution is doing. >> what -- what do you -- what do you hope comes out of -- of this trial? i mean, obviously, this is a pursuit of -- for -- for justice for -- for george floyd -- for -- for your family. on a larger picture, you know, so many people are watching this trial. hearing all the evidence. thinking about these issues. and i'm wondering, if there's a larger -- something larger that -- that you hope comes out of it? >> well, most definitely. like you said, you know, we -- we had, from the very onset, had two things in mind. one, that there would be a conviction for all of the officers involved in the murder

of george. and then, also, that we would see some true change take place. and so, i think, the climate that we're in right now. from his death being the catalyst for the movement we've seen all over the world with people, you know, protesting and pushing for some change. so, i think, for us, you know, not having his death being in vain and actually seeing some change for generations to come is what we'd hope to see. >> i know you are working for that with the george floyd foundation. i really appreciate your time tonight. and i wish you well in the days ahead. >> thank you, so much for having me. >> thank you. coming up next, we will have news out of texas. we told you at the top of the program about a mass shooting happened near houston. at a workplace. a live report, when we continue.

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more now on the breaking news of texas where there's been, yet another, mass

shooting. at least one person is dead, five others wounded, including a texas state trooper. our ed lavandera is there. so, what happened, ed? >> hi, anderson. well, this shooting took place in this business complex on the north side of bryan, texas. back over those trees that you see, over there. police have cordoned off that area. and investigators say, this afternoon, what they believe to be an employee walked into the cabinet-manufacturing business here, in bryan, and started shooting. one employee described a local affiliate here in bryan, that it sounded as if some of the machinery was having issues. and then, that's when everybody inside the business starting -- started to run. in the end here, one person was killed. five others, wounded. four of those that have been wounded, we are told, are in critical condition, tonight. and the gunman was able to get away from the scene, before officers arrived. and was then pursued into a neighboring county. and that it is where it's believed that the gunman, also,

fired and hit a state trooper that was pursuing him, in that neighboring county. we are told that, that state trooper is in serious-but-stable condition, tonight. police here in bryan, anderson, say they believed the suspect used a handgun, in this shooting. but they do not know, at this point, what the motive might be. or what set him off, at this point. they are not releasing his name, yet. but they continue to work the scene here, behind me, in bryan, texas. anderson. >> so, at this point, they -- they -- they don't know a motive? or at least they're not saying. >> they do not know a motive. at least, they're not -- they're not saying anything, publicly. they are continuing to interview witnesses and employees at the business. the police chief here, in bryan, did say that the gunman was a -- an employee of the business. it's not clear if he was a current employee or a former employee. but definitely, had some sort of connection to this cabinet-manufacturing business here in bryan. >> ed lavandera, appreciate it. thank you. the shooting came only a few

hours after president biden announced a series of executive actions on guns, after a wave of other mass shootings that he said were, quote, a blemish on the nation. referenced another shooting that happened yesterday afternoon. a south carolina doctor, his wife, and two of their grandchildren were killed in their home. among the measures announced today was one to restrict so-called ghost guns. weapons that can be built from parts and instructions purchased online. he, once again, called on congress to pass stronger legislation. >> whether congress acts, or not, i'm going to use all the resources in my disposal as president, to keep america safe from gun violence. but there's much more that congress can do to help that effort. and they can do it right now. they have offered plenty of thoughts and prayers, members of congress. but they passed not a single, new, federal law to reduce gun violence. enough prayers.

time for some action. >> skrojoining me anyway is luc mcbath, whose 17-year-old son was shot and killed in a car at a gas station. you ran for congress, in part, because of the killing of your son in 2012. with today's executive actions, do you think the president is moving fast enough? when it comes to gun control. >> well, what i know is that president biden understands the pain of losing someone. and it was definitely apparent in the rose garden, today, as he spoke directly to survivors, hike like myself. and advocates. he made it clear, this administration is willing to fight to keep all of our families safe. and, of course, we know that this is a -- this is a problem that is going to take some time to -- to -- to -- to dampen. it's going to take some time to create an environment, in which people feel safe in their

communities. and so, everything that he is doing is tangible. these are tangible actions that we know, right now, are building a really strong foundation. of course, which congress, we have to build upon this foundation. but these are tangible efforts, that he is willing to put, you know, forth, right now. he and vice president harris. to make sure that we are keeping our families safe. >> obviously, as a candidate, president biden made a lot of promises around gun-reform legislation to reinstating an assault-weapons ban, appealing liability protections for gun manufacturers. obviously, he hasn't moved on those proposals. and given what, you know, the situation that he is in. you know, his position that legislating is -- is, quote, a matter of timing. how patient are you willing to be? >> in this culture of gun violence, which has been building and building for years, anderson. it is going to take some time. it is not going to happen overnight. and every piece of policy that we put forth.

every move that we make. everything that we do, each and every, single day, is building a culture for safer communities. and he is acting to save lives. but congress. we are the ones that have to act. we are the ones that are responsible and accountable for our constituents. so it's up to us to do right by americans. and put forth these -- these life-saving measures. that is our responsibility. >> do you have any hope of congress actually doing anything? >> yes, i do. the fact that i was able to lead a letter, with my colleagues, that we were able to appropriate and secure $25 million to study the effects of gun violence. do that research. collect that data to substantiate the policies that we need to put forth to save lives. we are moving forward. but, you know, sometimes, we have to lose forward. but we are moving forward. and we are building a community of activists and -- and -- and

movement builders, on the ground. and, you know, gun-violence prevention organizations. and my colleagues, that are not willing to lay down on this. we are not giving up. >> well, congresswoman mcbath, i appreciate your time. and i'm -- i'm so sorry for -- for your loss. >> thank you, so much. >> thank you. ahead. democratic senator, joe manchin sits with cnn for an exclusive interview about his relationship with president biden and the control he now has over the president's agenda in a divided senate. and later, dramatic turn in the case that could have a direct impact on the federal probe of congressman matt gaetz where attorneys for an associate of gaetz, who is currently sitting in jail, said today when we continue. val: but we worrye enough to last. for retirement planning, investment advice, and more, look for a cfp® professional. cfp® professionals can help you craft a complete financial plan that gives you confidence today and tomorrow. find your cfp® professional at letsmakeaplan.org. cal: our confident forever plan is possible

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rely on the experts at 1800petmeds for the same medications as the vet, but for less with fast free shipping. visit petmeds.com today. one man who may control the fate of president biden's agenda is not making life easy for his fellow democrats. in a new editorial, west virginia senator, joe manchin, says he opposes weakening the filibuster and he doesn't want democrats to normalize reconciliation. a process, that bypasses the ability to filibuster some legislation. effectively, the stance could block the president's agenda in a divided senate. in a cnn exclusive interview with senator manchin, our congressional correspondent, lauren fox, discusses his role

as power broker. >> reporter: the other joe who holds the power in washington. clear, and unequivocal tonight. the reason? senator manchin tells cnn, the insurrection at the capitol. >> january 6th changed me, and i was very clear with everybody. i never thought, in my life. i never read in history books to where our form of government had been attacked at our seat of government, which is washington, d.c., our capitol, by our own people. now, the british did it but not americans. so, something told me, wait a minute. pause. hit the pause button. something's wrong. you can't have this many people to where they want to go to war with each other. >> reporter: insisting, the only way to move past the animosity is by working together. >> i think we can find a pathway forward. i really do. i am going to be sitting down with both sides and understanding where everybody's coming from. we should have an open, fair, and secure election. if we have to put guardrails on, we can put guardrails on so

people can't take advantage of people. and i believe there are republicans that felt exactly like i feel. >> reporter: how does that affect his relationship with the white house? >> they have been very, very kind in talking. we do talk. we have communications. >> how often? >> as -- as often as i would like, as often as they would like. i am always -- you know -- >> the president, directly? >> whenever he calls me, he calls and we have a good conversation. we have had a good friendship and relationship for a long time. we understand each other. >> reporter: and he has a warning for fellow democrats. slow down on thoughts of ramming through legislation, like voting rights. >> some progressives think you are standing in the way of significant changes the president could make on voting rights because you don't want to get rid of the filibuster. other changes that they could make, on gun reforms. >> if they try to work towards the middle. you can't work in the fringes. you just cannot work in the fringes. we want fair, open, secured elections. and what georgia has done some things which i thought were just atrocious. okay? but i've, also, been a sec vrety

of state and i have been a governor. and i know my rights as far as state's rights and i don't think there should be overreaching, if you will, in federal elections. i think the -- the -- the -- well, i will tell you the one they did which is unbelievable to me. they took away the power of the sec r secretary of state's office and put it in the hands of congress, i mean, the legislature. now, you have no-one person you can hold accountable for. that's crazy. >> reporter: and gun control. >> i support what the president did today. from what i heard. okay? what he is doing on executive order. now, there's an awful lot of other things he talked about but the executive order says ghost guns should not be allowed to be legally made or sold or used. it's illegal because they're making them off of printers and you can't detect them. >> but you still can't support the house -- >> not the house bill but that's negotiations. >> have there been any negotiations? >> we haven't gotten the bill, yet. we haven't gotten the bill, yet. no, we haven't. and i am happy to work with them

and sit down. i think we just call it common-gun sense. and if you come from a culture as i do in west virginia, i don't think there's a person -- i don't know a person without a gun. it's different -- different background. i am anxious to work with them and try to do something in a most-constructive way. >> reporter: what does he think of his new-found role as rainmaker? >> some of your colleagues joke that you are the president of the senate now. i have heard them in the hallways remark that to you. do you like this role? how does it feel? >> let me tell you. i have said this before and i will say it again. i have watched people that had power and abused it. i have watched people that sought power, and destroyed themselves. and i've watched people that had a moment of time to make a difference, and change things. and used it. i would like to be that third. >> reporter: and while he may not like the role he's been given. he says he knows he has a real friend in the other joe. >> i'm so pleased to understand that we have a person, sitting in the white house, that understands legislating. understands how congress works and should work. and understands that, basically,

we have got to represent the people we represent. and i am representing west virginia to the best of my ability. and i am trying to speak for my state. and lauren fox joins us now. now, it is remarkable, the power that -- that this senator now has. >> well, that's exactly right, anderson. look, he is that 50th vote for democrats. and chuck schumer, the majority leader, can't pass anything that biden sends over, without joe manchin. even using that special-budget process, known as reconciliation. he made it very clear, today, that what he thinks needs to happen is that democrats and republicans need to sit down. and iron some of these issues out. and we should note, that really takes time. and when you have someone, like the house speaker, saying she is hoping to pass infrastructure through her chamber by the july-4th recess, that doesn't leave you a ton of time to really have those negotiations with your republican colleagues. manchin, making it clear tonight, that he does have some areas where he needs to work with his democratic colleagues,

as well. of course, raphael warnock, the senator from georgia, has been arguing that they need to get rid of the filibuster, in order to pass the voting-rights bill. that already passed in the house of representatives. at least just do a simple carveout. manchin making it clear to me he doesn't support that but he did say when he gets back to washington, he wants to get into a room with warnock and his other colleague, senator ossoff, to try to have a conversation. to try to figure out if there might be a way to potentially bring republicans into that discussion. but it is important to remind viewers at home that manchin doesn't need one or two republicans to work with him. he needs ten republicans, anderson. and that, i just don't see the math right now in the u.s. senate. >> yeah. yeah, fascinating. lauren fox, appreciate the interview. thank you so much. just ahead. major, potential trouble for congressman matt gaetz. stunning announcement in a separate, legal matter involving a florida politician and associate of gaetz, who is currently in jail. details on that, when we come back. "what if i could retire sooner?"

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in a case that is closely tied to the fate of congressman matt gaetz, federal prosecutors and a defense attorney for an associate of gaetz made a pretty

stunning revelation in court today. one that could have direct bearing on the federal probe of the congressman and allegations about whether he broke sex-trafficking and prostitution laws. cnn's paula reid, tonight, was in the courtroom, and now has details. >> reporter: tonight, the investigation surrounding florida congressman matt gaetz enters a new phase. as a key associate signals he might strike a plea deal with the government. >> it really is an honor to be here today. >> reporter: joel greenberg, a friend of gaetz and a former tax collector in seminole county, florida, is likely to enter a deal in his own, criminal case. raising the possibility he could cooperate with investigators, as part of the deal. >> i am sure matt gaetz is not feeling very comfortable today. >> reporter: greenberg's attorney was in court today. and said, any potential for cooperation would be worked out in conjunction with a plea deal. >> if somebody signs a cooperation agreement, they're required to cooperate. >> reporter: gaetz's friendship with greenberg is key to the federal investigation surrounding him. the two have been friends, for

years. posting photos together. gaetz even told a local-radio station, in 2017, that greenberg would make a good member of congress. >> joel greenberg is going to the seminole county tax collector's office. he's taken it by storm. he's been a disruptor. >> reporter: the plea deal is not finalized but if the agreement goes through, it means one of gaetz's close confidantes would be cooperating with the government. putting further pressure on the congressman. >> mr. greenberg, if he accepts a plea or plea agreement, one, it will show his sense of remorse, which he does have. and his acceptance of responsibility. number two, i think, he's -- he's uniquely situated. >> reporter: greenberg has been awaiting trial, in jail, after violating the terms of his bail, earlier this year. he is charged with 33-criminal counts, including allegations of stocking and harassing a political opponent. also, included? one count of sex trafficking a

child, between the ages of 14 and 17. details in the court records for this charge are scant. investigators believe greenberg recruit recruited multiple women online for sex and that he introduced the women, who received cash payments, to gaetz, who had sex with them, too, according to "the new york times." gaetz has denied all allegations writing on monday, i have never, ever paid for sex. and second, i, as an adult man, have not slept with a 17-year-old. >> providing for flights and hotel rooms for people that you are dating, who are of legal age, is not a crime. >> reporter: but a source tells cnn investigators are examining whether any federal-campaign money was involved in paying for travel and expenses for the women. and now, federal investigators are scrutinizing a trip gaetz took to the bahamas and whether women were paid to travel for sex with the congressman and others. a potential-federal crime, sources tell cnn. as part of a broader probe, investigators want to know if

gaetz was accepting paid escorts and travel, in exchange for political favors, according to people familiar with the investigation. gaetz's lawyers declined to comment. but a spokesman for gaetz denied the allegations to cbs news. calling them, part of a general-fishing exercise about vacations and consensual relationships with adults. >> cnn legal analyst, back with us, cnn senior legal analyst, laura coates. so, what does it say to you about their case, so far? >> anderson, thanks for having me back. it says, to me, that mr. greenberg must have something very serious. given the nature of the charges against him. in order to get a plea deal, he is going to have to give something up. and based on all the evidence

that we know, publicly, it looks like evidence against congressman matt gaetz is that thing that he is going to need to trade for. >> and, laura, when -- in a plea-deal situation, do -- i assume, prosecutors know what is on the table? what is being offered? i mean, they -- they know the range of what somebody can testify to. >> they will know the foundation for why the person's willing to sort of, scratch my back, if you scratch mine, et cetera. i scratch yours. but the idea here, it could be a much wider net that's cast. once the plea-deal arrangement. in other words, a cooperation agreement is out there. then, you have the opportunity to delve in, even deeper. there might be other people, bigger fish, smaller fish, a wider net being cast. but, remember, agreeing to sign a cooperation deal does not end your obligations to the federal government. that's where the story really begins. and until you have actually been sentenced, you are on the hook for providing information throughout that. and sometimes, cooperation agreements don't end, until you

have actually provided the testimony that you have said you're going to provide. you have backed up the information, in some way. and sometimes, can often lead to a conviction. it can be very broad to secure that. if the government's going to drop the, what, 33-felony charges against you or reduce it in any way, you better have something to show for it because prosecutors don't just bring cases based on a hunch. they already have the evidence, when they have the indictment. >> norm, i mean, after the hearing today, greenberg's attorney said, quote, i'm sure matt gaetz is not feeling very comfortable today. we -- we showed that clip. it's kind of a snarky thing to say for -- for an attorney. i -- i'm not quite sure i understand the strategy of saying it. whether there -- maybe, there is no strategy, at all. but is -- not sure why he would kind of want to particularly worry matt gaetz, if there isn't even, yet, a signed-plea deal? >> anderson, it was a miscue.

that is not best practice for a defense lawyer. the best thing to do, and i have done it for decades in representing individuals. the best thing to do is to be very neutral, until that deal is done. prosecutors will look aat that kind of grandstanding. what i am sure mr. greenberg's lawyers have been saying to the government. we can give you matt gaetz. and part of what's going -- going on now is they're proffering, as we put it, sharing evidence. and ultimately, the government will want to sit down with mr. greenberg, himself, before they do a cooperation agreement. before they do a plea. to see if that statement is true and how mr. greenberg presents. >> and, laura, there is -- i mean, given the -- the number of charges against -- against the -- this -- this guy,

greenberg. any sense of how many charges could -- i mean, what kind of impact a plea deal would have on -- on his potential sentencing? >> well, normally, it would be in a plea agreement even with this scope of charges. there might be some that they are willing to reduce, in terms of either what they are going to ask for of a sentence, if they do plead guilty. or reduce the number of charges. or even as a possibility, you could have a multiple number of convictions but ask for sentence to actually run what they call concurrently, meaning it's not going to be back to back to back to back. so you would be able to get the wide scope of charges. but it also signals to a lot of people here, to norm's point, who maybe is not being asked to cooperate. and sometimes, when the defense is trying to tell the world, hey, here's who we have information on. it might signal who the government's interested in finding out information about. and who does not -- who is not in the good graces. but what you are seeing here is the persona non grata.

but prosecutors need more than innuendo, more than insinuation. they want evidence. and likely, they want corroboration on what they may or may not already have. >> norm, it's so interesting, that congressman gaetz chooses to fund raise off -- i mean, i don't know how interesting it is. i mean, it's, probably, this is what they do. but the fact -- i mean, i don't know if it's like what but the fact that he is fundraising off of this. i mean, generally, you would think, if somebody is, you know, facing potential charges and investigation. and their -- the person they have been palling around with and doing all sorts of things with is in jail, and potentially going to give a plea deal. they might just be a little humble? or at least just quiet? >> anderson, having worked on the house-judiciary committee when congressman gaetz was a member.

i can tell you that, humility is the last thing that will come his way. but it's not smart for his exposure. he has been all over the map. making public statements about this. he's decided to try it in the court of opinion -- public opinion. you know, he's taken the wrong lessons from his role-model, ex-president trump. here, every statement he's made is, potentially, incriminating. and can work against him. >> yeah. norm eisen, laura coates, appreciate it. thank you. up next, how a mother took down the ku klux klan after the lynching of her son. for people living with h-i-v, keep being you. and ask your doctor about biktarvy.

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she faced down the kkk and she won. here is part of the powerful story of a grieving, black mother after the lynching of her son, and her fight for justice. >> it's him. that's you will i could say was, it's him. i was just numb. i couldn't believe that this was happening to us. and i looked outside my mom's door. and it was people, everywhere. i mean, everywhere, in the neighborhood. they had come from far and near. my sister, cynthia hamilton. she went to identify the body

with my husband. all he had done was left his mom's house, that night, to walk to the service station to buy a pack of cigarettes. not knowing, what was waiting for him. i can only imagine what mrs. donna went through. that is an excerpt from the people versus the klan. the new-cnn original series that is going to premiere this sunday night with back-to-back episodes beginning at 9:00 p.m. eastern. it's extraordinarily powerful. the news continues right now. want to hand it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." >> thank you, anderson. i am chris cuomo and welcome to prime time. we have more news breaking on our watch. and some big developments to discuss, specifically in the gaetz scandal. congressman gaetz's bouddy