president biden says the last u.s. troops will leave afghanistan on september 11th on the 20th anniversary of the attack of the world trade center that triggered the country's longest war. speaking from the same room that president george w. bush used to announce the war, president biden said no further result will occur by keeping troops there. >> expanding or extending our military presence in afghanistan, hoping to create ideal conditions for the withdrawal and expecting a different result. i'm now the fourth united states president to preside over american troop presence in afghanistan, two republicans, two democrats. i will not pass this responsibility on to a fifth.

>> some of the president's most senior advisers were against his decision, general mark milley, senator mitch mcconnell and mcraven, overall charge of the raid that killed osama bin laden said, quote, he does not trust the taliban at all and think they will try to establish a pre-9/11 presence in afghanistan. after his announcement, president biden visited arlington cemetery section 60, the final resting mace place of people who made the ultimate sacrifice. where biden said it was time to end what he called america's forever war. that's it for us. thanks for watching. the news continues right now. let's head it over to chris for cuomo prime time. >> anderson, thank you very much. i am chris cuomo welcome to prime time. ex-officer who killed daunte wright was charged today with second degree murder -- manslaughter, sorry. second-degree manslaughter. it was a quick decision. the question is, was it the right decision?

a jury will take to court and decide whether second-degree manslaughter is found by the facts in law of this situation. that is in a court of law. there is also a court of public opinion. and that may play out as early as tonight. protesters have gathered again tonight for a fourth straight night in brooklyn center, minnesota. so far shall it is calm, and that is good. the lawyer for the wright family says they appreciate the pursuit of justice but added this was no accident and that nothing will bring back their son. now if we look at the criminal complaint against potter, it accuses her of culpable negligence. creating unreasonable risk. taking a chance of causing death or great bodily harm. that squares with the lowest level of homicide charges, which is criminally negligent homicide. it says potter was a field

training officer when she and another officer pulled over wright in a traffic stop. the officer doing the teaching made a mistake that many still can't fathom. why potter made that mistake is the biggest unknown here. the next unknown we also find in the complaint. that goes to what provoked the arrest. the other officer, not potter, it says, determined wright had a warrant out for his arrest, stemming from a case involving wright carrying a handgun without a permit and fleeing from a peace officer. at trial, the warrant could play a factor in any affirmative defense, meaning an explanation if the defense decides to give one. did potter know about the outstanding warrant? is that why she made the decision that she made? is that why she shot daunte wright? there is no mention in the

complaint on this point. remember, she was not the officer who supposedly discovered the warrant. what made this case come down to? we'll go to ask the prosecutor in the very high-profile freddy gray case in moments. i have a reminder for you tonight. if it gets hot, and it may, because many in wright's community are complaining this was the lowest charge possible. i ask the white majority to see why these people, white and black, young and old, are in the streets. and if they do become violent, of course it's wrong. of course, riots are not protests. but please don't stop there. we saw the worst riot in history. act of terror killed, maimed and injured over 100 police. it was on january 6th. a trump mob went hunting for

congress, arguably at the former president's direction. yet what did we see there? a lot of white people, including an entire tv network, were committed to playing down an insurrection of the u.s. capitol, to look beyond, look at the anger behind the actions of that trump mob and what was behind january 6th? a lie. a big lie. will those people do the same here? here, people are outraged about the truth. this country does remain a tale of two cities. will these people get federal lawmakers on fox saying, well, they were angry, but they didn't have guns. it isn't that bad. you have to remember that they're upset about real things. we need to see the injustice that has the people on the street desperate for hope. and i hope you do.

only the majority can force the changes that will rid systemic inequality. improving policing for police and residents and yet in the reaction to the charge, many in the majority are pointing out that the officer made a mistake. now this only happened because daunte wright did not comply. does he not get to make a mistake? isn't the officer trained to deal with the anxiety of a stop? this will be dealt with in court. it's a much bigger conversation. we need to answer those questions as urgently as any question we face. let's go to the streets where we find the loudest voices desperately seeking answers. sara sidener is in brooklyn center. how is it shaping up tonight? >> crowd is large. not as large as last night, but this still is early. you were talking about the

charges a's we talked about last night together, chris, people are acutely aware of the justice system. and the way they see it, and their idea of justice is not always the same idea of justice as the system has in place. so the reason you're seeing a lot of folks out here is because this isn't the first time. and they all feel this won't be the last time that an officer kills someone who is unarmed, in particular someone who is black and unarmed. i'll give you a look at the scene here. i want you to see how close they are. this is the fence that's been erected just because of the protests. you can see the concrete barrier. you can see the officers back there in riot gear and behind them are members of the national guard. you can also see, if you can pull up there, you can see the very top of their precinct here, you can see officers at the top of the building and every now and then you'll see a water

bottle thrown over. every now and then you might see a rock thrown over from the protester side into the police side and then you will see a response. and that response is pepper spray. that response is gas, tear gas but eventually that response is -- and i can tell they've already sprayed some pepper spray. excuse me. because it lingers in the air for a while. rubber bullets have been fired. we saw someone who had been hit by a rubber bullet. those things really sting. they can injure you very badly. we know journalists in some of these protests in years past have lost an eye. they are less than lethal but it doesn't mean they can't maim you. then you will eventually see, if it's been like every other night, police come out and start pushing people away in huge numbers. we expect to see that very same thing tonight. 10:00 p.m. local time, 11:00

p.m. eastern time is the curfew. we'll see how it unfolds. often these protests are peaceful for hours. hours on end. and a lot of people don't want to talk about that, but that is the truth. it is in the late hours of night that you usually see folks getting very frustrated and a whole sort of turn. towards throwing things at police and becoming violent until the evening. chris? >> thank you so much for setting the stage. as always, let me know if i need to come back to you. i will right away. manslaughter in the second degree. is that the right charge? first guest is a prosecutor who put multiple police officers on trial. baltimore city's state attorney marilyn mosby from the infamous freddie gray case in 2018. 2015. serious charges against six officers involved in gray's arrest, her announcement of charges was met with jubilation

from the demanding justice. gray died from a severe spinal cord injury suffered while in custody and his death set off wide dn spread froe proe tests and fueled the black lives matter moment. mosby at trial failed to get any convictions in the case. she knows well the challenges of prosecuting cases like this, and we welcome her to prime time now. good to see you, counselor. >> thank you for having me, chris. >> what do you make of the charge in this case? >> without having all the information and not seeing all the body cameras, the charge is rather appropriate. we have second-degree manslaughter, criminal negligent homicide. the prosecutor is alleging that in the criminal complaint that officer potter negligently failed to use reasonable care and created an unreasonable risk that resulted in daunte wright's death and likely considered several factors.

officer potter was a senior, 26-year veteran, field training officer, whose occupation clearly carries with it a tremendous responsibility, which includes engaging and responding and deescalating difficult situations without resorting to deadly force. officer potter's inability to distinguish her taser from her gun is the negligence that the prosecutor will claim created the unreasonable risk to daunte wright's life. a 26 year police veteran who was training an officer at that point she should have been, and this will be the argument, she should have been able to distinguish the different placement of her gun, which is usually placed on an officer's dominant side versus the placement of her taser, which is placed on an officer's nondominant side. the argument will be as a 26-year police veteran that was training the officers in that moment, she was the only one

that went for a taser and she should have known how to distinguish a taser, intentionally designed in color, look and feel from a gun and, finally, if i was a prosecutor in this case, i would argue that even the act of utilizing a taser in a traffic stop created an unreasonable risk of bodily injury and harm that, depending on that person, could have resulted in serious bodily injury or death. the greater question is he is an outstanding misdemeanor warrant and we as a country should be asking why this type of overly aggressive policing where the officer intends to even use a taser in a minor traffic offense, why this is acceptable. without posing an imminent threat. >> let me jump ahead in your analysis. if the defendant were to argue at trial, i knew what the other

officer pulled up and when i saw it was a warrant for him possessing a handgun and fleeing, that's why i was as aggressive as i was. i thought maybe he was going for a gun when he got back into the car. does that hold weight? >> so, i mean, what's going to happen in this case is what happens in every case. the defense strategy will be the same as it is right now in the chauvin trial, to stigmatize and criminalize the victim in order to justify use of excessive force. despite the murder being depicted on camera, the defense strategy in the wright trial will likely be to stigmatize and criminalize the victim and blame him for his own death. this was done in the killings of freddie gray, sandra bland, fernando castille and so many others. the larger question is why we, from a policing and cultural perspective, have an expectation

that police have to respond or should be responding to every social ill of society. >> counselor, to those who say i can't believe they only gave her the lowest homicide charge they could, do you see anyone above in terms of severity being available to the prosecutor do you think there was a chance he could have not charged homicide here? >> it's difficult to say. i don't have all the evidence at my disposal. with first degree murder that would have to be the actual intent to have killed that person. >> right. >> and i don't think it rises to that level. however, the prosecutor is the one with the best knowledge. based upon the information that is publicly available, i think the charges right now, second-degree manslaughter, is appropriate. >> one thing we should be evaluating and what we must acknowledge is when we

criminalize these minor offenses that have nothing to do with public safety we're exposing people to needless interaction with law enforcement that black people in this country often lead to a death sentence. that's a greater question we should be looking to reform. >> daunte wright wasn't supposed to flee the traffic stop but many are quick to point out that the officer made a mistake that she may not have intended this kind of outcome. they don't give that to daunte wright. >> correct. >> that he made a mistake in running. this is, again to make your point, this was about an outstanding warrant. not showing up for a hearing, an underlying complaint that he he had a gun without a permit and ran was asked for it. and now we are here. counselor, thank you very much for your insight on this. i appreciate you, marilyn mosby. >> thank you. >> all right. take care. >> justice, fairness under law. we're supposed to have our eyes on the trial for george floyd. it was never supposed to be

during this moment we would have a parallel moment. and as mosby was just referring to, yes, the defense is doing what happens in these cases, which is all kinds of theories that this is really about george floyd. who he was, how he acts and what was wrong with his body. heart disease. maybe this was about carbon monoxide. how? i'll spell it out for you. these are alternate theories. remember, it's just about one. one juror, he or she says, maybe that makes almost as much sense because i don't get what was happening here. and, just like that, you've got a hung jury. let's bring in a former assistant attorney general, next. experience clean in a whole new way. now roomba vacuums exactly where you need it, and offers personalized cleaning suggestions

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murder trial heard from a single witness today, a retired forensic pathologist brought in by the defense to point to everything else except for derek chauvin as the cause of floyd's death. >> we have a heart that's vulnerable because it's too big. there are certain drugs present in his system that make it -- put it at risk of an arrhythmia. we've got the carbon monoxide, which has the potential to rob some of that additional oxygen-carrying capacity. >> is it your opinion that mr. chauvin's knee, in any way, impacted the structures of mr. floyd's neck? >> no, it did not. none of the vital structures were in the area where the knee appeared to be from the videos. >> let's bring in former federal prosecutor elliott williams, joining me right now. we heard something today we had not heard before. carbon monoxide.

this is an extension of an argument that because floyd was situated near the tailpipe of one of the cruisers that was running, apparently, at the time, maybe that had something to to with it. the prosecution took it on. here was the cross. >> you haven't seen any data or test results that showed mr. floyd had a single injury from carbon monoxide, is that true? >> that is correct, because it was never sent to -- >> i asked you whether it was true, sir. is it true? >> it is true. >> did you see any air monitoring data that would give you any information as to what amount of carbon monoxide, if any, would have been in mr. floyd's breathing zone? >> no, because it was not tested. >> it was a yes or no question. you haven't seen any, have you? >> i have not seen any data.

>> this becomes an expert speculating on the presence of carbon monoxide because of the proximity of the tailpipe and that that may be a contributing factor to why all of this was about something other than the knee on the neck. >> chris, let's use a legal term right now. and that witness got his ass handed to him on cross examination. there is no other way to look at it. look, in the law, experts are one of the very few types of witnesses who can testify as to their opinions about things. most witnesses are called to testify to this is what i saw. this is what i heard. i ways bystander. experts on account of their education, training, experience and background can testify as to their professional opinions. the problem is that when you put an expert on the stand, he has got to be the smartest guy in the room, smarter than the judge. smarter than the jury, smarter than the prosecutor, and his central findings can't be picked apart like that. it is devastating to a case to put a witness on and have that

happen to him. number one, this whole question of whether floyd's blood was even tested is pretty devastating if you're trying to make the argument that there's carbon monoxide in his blood and also, chris, later on in that back and forth with jerry plaquewell, the prosecutor, there's this question of, did you even know if the car was a hybrid or not? so what kind of emissions, you didn't test the car. really, he's testifying as to matters he didn't know about and didn't have a background in and it just wasn't good for the defense. >> i don't know that they even established that the car was on the whole time. what you're laying out there in latin gluteum -- >> nice. >> we get it. you cannot understemt the exposure of various theories on a jury if one or more are of the

disposition of not thinking that the prosecution's case makes enough sense. what do you think is the level of concern based on what's been laid out, that you could have some stragglers on that jury who are like, i'm not sure? this guy was a complicated profile. >> you never know what jurors are going to do. they surprise all of us. frankly, any of these theories could be plausible. carbon monoxide, were it not blown out of the water today, could have been a theory for poking holes in the prosecution's case. heart disease, fentanyl, whatever. the problem is that there's a nine-minute video that the defense isn't dealing with. the defense testimony walked through all these factors but didn't talk about the big factor that the entire jury and frankly everyone in america saw this nine-minute video. >> they're going to bring it back and close and it's going to be a big part for the prosecutor. >> of course. >> i wonder if we won't be talking at some point in the future about how big of a

mistake it was for the defense to bring up the prior arrest. yeah, you do see george floyd acting very much in the way he was when he was stopped here and, yes, drugs were in the air again in terms of discussion. he didn't die there. he didn't have all these heart irregularities. you notice what the cop did? he didn't need a knee on his neck to control the situation. i think that will be a factor. but also the idea of the obvious. and what it was. today even on the stand, that retired forensic expert, as a doctor, agreed with prosecutors that at a minimum the officers here should have applied emergency assistance to floyd a lot sooner. their own expert agreed with it. elliott, i've got to jump. thank you for breaking down the obvious here. this is another step in this fight for justice. we'll see what happens next. >> thank you. the trial, of course, is not just about what's happening in court. that's not to say that the courtroom should be corrupt ed

but racial injustice is real. that brings us to the main question. okay, we'll see what happens in the floyd verdict, what happens in the wright verdict. does that make it less likely that things get this bad again? no, right? so what would bring substantial change? next. look at that scuffed up wall. embarrassing you. that wall is your everest. but not any more. today let's paint.

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rely on the experts at 1800petmeds for the same medications as the vet, but for less with fast free shipping. visit petmeds.com today. communal pain in black communities, when it comes to deadly police encounters, is real and it runs deep. it's not just because they see it in the media. it's because they see it in their families. they see it in their communities. the connections help paint the picture of why. as we watch the wright and floyd families connect over such similarly tragic losses, we learn that george floyd's girlfriend knew daunte wright.

she was a dean at the high school where he was once a student. now she's mourning another loss. several states away, it turns out the army officer pepper sprayed in virginia, the one with his hands that were up during the traffic stop, turns out that he is related to eric garner from new york city. garner's dying words we all know by now "i can't breathe." van jones joins me now. we know what the pushback is. they're in the same community, they knew each other. maybe a couple are related. i remember this, fred hampton and emmitt till had a connection as well. these are coincidences. these don't explain any kind of real perverse feelings about policing. what are people missing when they don't see this? >> well, i mean, first of all, when you have a community that has so much pain packed into it, these ricochets of connection

are inevitable. in other words, people forget. the black community we're only about 11, 12% of the whole country. we make a lot of noise, we've got a strong culture, but we're a very strong group. a small group. the latino community is bigger than we are, asian community is catching up. but look at how many funerals, look at how many funerals in that one community. sometimes it's us doing it to ourselves, sometimes it's the police. sometimes it's the health care system. but look at how many funerals. look how much pain this one community has to bear. it is not surprising at all. it's inevitable such a small community, and especially in the twin cities, that such a small community would have so many connections of hope, love but also with pain. >> people on the street in brooklyn center who are complaining, saying, i can't believe they gave her the minimum. i can't believe they gave this police officer the minimum. i had marilyn mosby on, who became famous for the freddie gray prosecution that resulted in stronger charges but no

conviction. >> right. >> said this is what it looks like it's supposed to be on the facts. what do you say to people who say no, we wanted more. >> listen, what you don't want -- i'm sure marilyn mosby would agree. you don't want to charge something that you can't bring a victory home for. so, unfortunately, we are operating inside this box of a system that constrains hands and i think prosecutors have to make sure, first of all, that they're meeting their own ethical requirements not to overcharge. we're sick of them overcharging in our communities. it's so amazing, chris, to watch the difference. in the community, they hit you with 27 different charges and you have to plead down from there. when it's a police officer, they're super, super respectful. they're careful. they don't want to add one extra charge, one extra overdue library book, parking ticket, no. it's got to be perfect against the police. that's what people are upset about. they're not saying we want unjust charges for the police

but we're seeing people in the community getting leveled for small things and they can't stand the hypocrisy. at the same time as marilyn mosby said, if you're keith ellison, who took this case on himself and getting it prosecuted, you've got to do it 100% the right way because you don't want bring home a loss to the community and have that extra pain inflicted. you want something that will work. the hypocrisy stinks. >> how do you get a majority to want to fight for the changes that affect the minority? >> the thing about it is that's the mistake, that this affects everybody, because it's one country. here is the deal. once you have any out-of-control system. once you have a big, unaccountable bureaucracy where people can get away with stuff, they start getting away with more and more. we're the canary in the coal

mine community. we're the community that if anything bad is going to happen, it's going to happen to us first. we're going to get it first and worst. if you protect us, you never have to worry about anything else. if the black community is all right, trust me, everybody else is going to be okay. if you let things get out of hand with us, eventually it comes to your door. i think that's why congress needs to act now. karen bass, congresswoman from california, has been leading an effort on the house side to try to bring people back together and get something done. tim scott, black republican on the senate side, has been trying to get something done. the big danger we have right now is at least everybody is paying attention. you may have different opinions. there is some stuff we can agree on. i think everybody now can agree that these chokeholds need to be banned at the federal level, that's still not happened. everybody could agree you have a duty to intervene as a cop if you see the police officer violating the law and policy at a federal level that's not even happening. most people would say if you've got a cop like chauvin who has not one, not two, not three, not

four, not ten, but 15 complaints, he should at least be in a registry so everybody knows what you're dealing with. that's not in federal law either. we're all looking at one case and one courtroom, congress is sitting there, not getting anything done. karen bass trying to make it happen. tim scott trying to make it happen. everybody at the congressional level, can we at least do something about the stuff we all agree on? you may not agree on everything in this case, but there's some stuff that's just a stench in the nostrils of god about these policing practices. let move now and get something done. all this pain with no progress is going to make things worse, chris. >> it's just the open question is, what's going to get the lawmakers who are so quick to say about january 6th, they didn't even have guns, i didn't think it was that bad. when will that start to apply to people outside their own bubble? van, i've got to jump. thank you for the wisdom and i hope the audience is listening. so, what is the annoying

question in the daunte wright -- how? how? how did you mistake a glock for a taser? you are a training officer. you're a long-time vet. i really wish the officer had included that in her resignation letter. now the question is, is this a one-off? like what do we know about accidents in policing? it's happened before, this taser mix-up. about there is context that you need to know, and i have it for you, next. people everywhere living with type 2 diabetes are waking up to what's possible with rybelsus®. ♪ you are my sunshine ♪ ♪ my only sunshine... ♪ rybelsus® works differently than any other diabetes pill

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so let focus on the big question in the death of daunte wright. how? how does this happen? >> taser, taser, taser. oh, [ expletive ] i just shot him. >> a police officer mistaking a gun for a taser is something that shouldn't happen by design, but it does happen n 2015 in tulsa when eric harris was killed. listen. >> i shot him. i'm sorry. >> i shot him, i'm sorry. in oakland in 2009, oscar grant was killed by a police officer at the fruitvale train station. the new york time has reviewed 15 of these so-called weapon confusion cases over 20 years. the numbers break down like

this. five of the officers were indicted. three were convicted. the other two are still pending. for context, keep in mind most years we have about 1,000 deadly police shootings. the arrest rate is usually around 1, 2% of cases. the numbers don't explain the how. so, how does a trained professional mistake one of these, a glock 9-millimeter, for one of these, a taser? we don't know the exact model of either that kim potter was carrying. what we do know is that what happened in brooklyn center is exactly why officers are trained to holster their sidearm like this, on their dominant side. for kim potter, that would be her right-hand side. the taser goes on the other side. often in what they call a cross-draw position so that the officer has to reach around their body to grab it. it's not just the side of the body.

the safety to release the trigger is in a different spot on a glock and a taser. a dplok is also heavier than a taser. tasers are often bright yellow so everyone involved knows what's being used. that's also why the prook lynn center pd's policy manual states all taser devices shall be clearly and distinctly marked to differentiate them from the duty weapon and any other device. but in looking at it, there is a central fallacy at the heart of the whole situation. it's this idea that taser or gun is a binary choice for officers. in fact, a 2019 study of the chicago police department found no evidence that cops ever pulled a taser instead of a gun. hard numbers on police use of force are a mess. too many departments don't even report it to the feds. the data we do have shows the use of a taser leads to the use

of a gun more often than one replaces the other. in short, we don't know that tasers being introduced into the arsenal have made things less deadly. so, answering the question of how this happens is going to require another look at all the things on a police officer's belt, the gun, the taser, the night stick, pepper spray and, really, examine whether more is turning out to be better. now tonight, cnn has uncovered details on another story revolving around congressman matt gaetz. gaetz has trouble. it's not just a coincidence. his buddy, greenberg, has been talking to feds for a long time, as we've said on this show for a long time. that's where they're getting this case from. they're not developing things about greenberg and gaetz. they're getting stuff from greenberg about gaetz and now we know a lot more about what they were doing together and apart, and what women who attended some

of their parties have to say. there's another breaking news report on this, just ahead. the world around you may seem like an immovable, implacable place. it is not. it can be bright. quiet. and safe. it's a change that will be felt from this street. to this street. to no street. and everywhere in between. all it takes is the slightest push in just the right place and that will be the tipping point that changes everything. ♪ ♪

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there is new reporting tonight from "the daily beast" that shows a lot more payments by matt gaetz's so-called wing man to a network of women. this, on the heels of two women telling cnn about sex and drug-fueled parties that the congressman attended. one of the women showed cnn digital receipts for payment. this kind of paper trail and pattern are going to matter, to federal investigators looking into the florida congressman. keep in mind, the feds probably already have this, as greenberg's attorney told a judge last week, he would likely be taking a plea deal. if you are getting the deal, that means you cooperated. and federal prosecutors are getting ready to act on the cooperation material. we should, also, remind you, the congressman has denied, ever, paying for sex. and denied, as an adult, having sex with an underaged girl. in fact, he's repeatedly denied any wrongdoing. let us a bring in "the daily beast" reporter who helped break the story, and former fbi

special agent asha rangappa to help us make sense of it. good to have you both. >> thank you. >> so, jose, the story has been this, up until now. yeah, yeah, greenberg's a bad guy. yes, i know him. you don't have any of the stuff that you have on him, on me. now, what do we know? >> well, this is interesting, because one of the things that we know is that we now have one-particular transaction, from a sitting congressman with a love-hotel emoji. now, if you used venmo, you know you are supposed to make a payment and say what it's for in the memo line. in this case, we have a love hotel emoji and $300 going to his pal, joel greenberg. actually, that very night joel greenberg did book a reservation at a luxury hotel in the orlando area. and for two adults, no kids, so there was something there. >> what do you -- cnn hasn't confirmed that, yet. but what are you seeing, that you believe causes the most troubling connections for gaetz, with investigators, jose? >> well, look. joel greenberg was matt gaetz's

buddy. and what we have been hearing from sources is that, yes, there was a relationship there, where matt gaetz would rely on joel greenberg to get access to these women. but what we gather now is all of these venmo payments, hundreds of venmo payments with thousands of dollars to more than a dozen young women. and these are very, very telling, because they date back to 2017. and they are all over the place. the memos that describe what these venmos are for, are really telling. they are very explicit. and so, we really have to ask ourselves what a married father of two kids, in orlando, was doing paying all of these young women. while, also, maintaining a relationship, a friendship with matt gaetz, while, also, getting money from matt gaetz with memos that are pretty indicative. >> so, asha, greenberg's got trouble. that's why he is cooperating, has been cooperating for a long time. and you see the echo effect and what they say they are looking at with gaetz. this is all derivative of greenberg. but, in making a case against gaetz, if you can't tie him to

the underaged woman, that they have greenberg on, which is why he is probably cooperating. does this run the risk of just coming down to, at worst, a prosecution case? >> yeah. so, there's a couple of different angles, here. greenberg is useful to investigators, because he can explain the meaning and context behind the documentary evidence that they have. so, we just heard about these venmo payments. these emojis. the different, you know, reasons that were given. i think, one was, like, salad or something like that for a thousand dollars. but greenberg can narrate this evidence. he can talk about what was going on, what it was for, where it occurred. and give meaning to that. the problem is that greenberg is not necessarily a credible witness standing alone. this guy is facing 33-pending charges. so, he has a lot of incentive to -- to cooperate with federal

prosecutors. and, you know, on the stand, it could be a he said/he said. but, this is where some of the other reporting that has come out about these parties. these whatsapp chat come into play. because, this gives investigators a list of other, potential witnesses to these activities, to the parties, to the -- to the women that these men were around. who can corroborate greenberg's testimony, if he describes all of the activities that are going on. and i think, that's where investigators and prosecutors can build the case against gaetz. >> if they had a case, what's taking so long? >> well, you know, it takes a while. i mean, the -- the doj isn't going to charge someone, unless they, a, have all the evidence that they need to prove the crime. and, b, they are sure that they can get a conviction. so, if greenberg just started cooperating, they are going to get all the information they can

with -- from him. >> he's been cooperating, a while. he's been cooperating a while. >> yes, and they are going to, also, follow all the leads that he is providing. let's, also, remember, chris, that federal investigations have a tendency to snowball. if we just look at greenberg, his investigation started out about stalking. that turned into an investigation into identity theft. that turned into an investigation into sex trafficking. >> uh-huh. >> so, as investigators uncover evidence, it could give them leads into other-potential violations. and they are going to follow those to their logical conclusion. so, i think it really depends on what they are uncovering. and especially, if they are looking at financial trails, at paper trails. >> right. >> they may be looking at leads for other violations. and they, also, need to, as i mentioned, interview a lot of different witnesses in order to bolster their case. >> one more quick thing for each of you. for you, asha, the idea that, in looking at this with gaetz, that

you don't give somebody a plea deal, like greenberg, if he doesn't give you information that is equal or greater, about somebody else. does that still hold true? >> yes. >> okay. thank you. and, jose, that this is no longer about one, two, three women. that the field of people, and the players here is expanding, exponentially. is that true? >> that's right. and these women are -- look. this is worth mentioning. while we were investigating this, a lot of these women started going dark. they started disconnecting from each other on venmo and on instagram. and making their accounts private, even though we haven't mentioned them. we haven't exposed them, yet. right? and some of them are actually, now, disconnected from matt gaetz. so we know that they're creating that distance. there is some distance being created, even though their identities are not public, yet. and we should note, that one of these people is matt gaetz's ex-girlfriend, who, herself, had her iphone seized by federal agents sometime over the holidays. and so, if we're asking ourselves why it's taking so long. it's because investigators are still digging and doing these

interviews, and getting to the people who actually know what was going on. >> right. so cnn hasn't confirmed that but there are a lot of people doing the digging here. and, you know, sometimes, the evidence is in inaction or in response. you know, matt gaetz losing people who were connected to him on venmo, why? why did they disconnect? >> jose, thank you. asha rangappa, thank you for the better mind. well, you both have better minds so i thank you both for that. we'll be right back. >> thank you.