guns. even had they done that, in indiana, that wouldn't have stopped him from buying a gun because they don't have unit versal background checks. so red flag laws dome work unless you have universal background checks meaning the person is prohibited from buying a gun. whether they go to a gun store or they go online to buy a gun. so i think you need both. even in this case. had he been only list, yes, he would have walked into a gun store and not be able to buy a gun. then he could have gone to a gun show or gone online. so you have to do both. >> i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. the news continues now. i hand it over to chris for prime time. >> thank you. i appreciate it. i will chris cuomo. welcome to prime time. what will the verdict be? that's the question hanging over this country. the jury, george floyd has the job to stay truthful that's what

verdict literally means. to speak the truth. and deliberations are still ongoing in the george floyd murder case. it began earlier today, an entire nation is awaiting the verdict. you're looking at minneapolis. protesters, peaceful, gathered tonight. cities from coast to coast are bracing for the outcome. the question is why? the first reason is because of this. this video. the image that's we saw seemed so obvious and obviously removed from anything resembling righteous behavior. any sense of decency. floyd pinned for so long by so many. literally a knee on his neck screaming that he couldn't breathe. screaming for his mother. literally, arrested to death. all on camera. though it is one case, for many, the hope is that the verdict speaks the truth about, yes,

what derek chauvin did to george floyd. but also, to what they believe happens to so many. in many cases, in many places, and too often, to black faces. when it comes to policing. as clear as this reality is for many in this country, it is challenged mightily by the right, specifically the far right. it is used as a proxy. this is an attack on law and order. they use to it add potency to the poison of white fright. white replacement. the whole basket of bubkas that is a sorry replacement. -- distraction. we should all work on it for the benefit of police and of course those they serve and protect. so yes. our nation's eyes are on this jury of five men and nine women. how will they process the final arguments? first, they heard from the state. then the defense.

then of course the final word from the prosecution. here is a sample. >> you can believe your eyes. this was not policing. this was murder. the defendant is guilty of all three counts. officer chauvin made a decision not to use higher levels of force when he would have been authorized to do that. he was following his training. mr. chauvin should be found not guilty of all counts. >> you were told, for example, that mr. floyd died. that he died pause his heart was too big. the truth of the matter is that the reason george floyd is dead is because mr. chauvin's heart was too small. >> now, we will go in depth on the closing arguments, the presentation, the positioning, how they were countered. but be clear. the outcome in this case, and i don't know that it comes tonight. it's getting late.

it is an hour earlier where they're deliberating in minnesota but they don't usually keep a jury this long. they will ask at some point. are you anywhere close? yes. they may keep them. they may ask to stay. otherwise this will carry into tomorrow. it is on our watchful i'll let you know as soon as we know. to be clear, this verdict is likely to bring nothing to the country anything like the unanimous voice that a jury must find for itself if it does convict. this has become the battle ground for the ugliest politics of division. i don't know if you were watching friday night. i said something that every one of you knows to be true. if what we're seeing in these communities were happening to kids in suburbs, to adults in suburbs, if they suffered the same fate as we see too often with these black kids. if they died in policing situations, things would change.

look at heroin. prescription opioids. meth. in poor areas, bad habits, bad families. suburbs, a major crisis. we must fight addiction. laws, legislation, help, crisis, politics. do you know how many black girls go missing every year? they don't become household names. they're not the center of major manhunts like when they're affluent whites. even covid. once it was ravaging middle or upper class communities, well after the poor had got hit and hit hard. that's when it became a crisis. it is obvious, right? no. it is only obvious for the reasonable. on the rabid right, it was weaponized as a threat, what i said. see in they want white kids to die to end policing problems. now, look. on its face, that's absurd.

i'm white. why would i want that? this is not about the facts. this is about fear. these people on the fringe want you afraid. they want you to fear diversity and being replaced. this is the heart of the white replacement theory that has nothing to do with race. no wonder on fox they said that was described in court as his own employer, by his employer, as not to be seen as credible. it is all about race. but here's the truth that i hope to god that we find in ourselves and soon. no matter what this verdict is. there is no progress in us and them in america. there is no progress in us and them in america. no matter the verdict.

we have a problem that disproportionately affects minorities and it will never change unless the majority wants it to. it is only when those with the power want to it change that it may change. god forbid it was your family. if it were, it would have likely changed already if you are white, affluent, suburbs, access to power. that's my point. that's the only point. that's why i believe it is part of this job to have people who may not look, may not live, may not feel like the people on the screen right now. but to see your interconnection to them. the enter dependence on you and them in a society. policing must be right for all communities. if you get it right, where it's going wrong, it will be right

everywhere. left and right must surrender to reasonable. everyone should want to be better. the question is, will this moment, and this is a heavy moment. will it bring us closer to light or deeper into darkness? i know what i said is true. but it's not about knowing the truthful it is about living the truth. let's take that question to the better minds. van jones and anthony barksdale. bark, i've been relying on you for a long time to tell me what's right and what's not for policing in general that that i know what i said is not just true. it's simple. if things happen in affluent communities that tend to be white, things change. they have power. they have access. the politicians are dependent on them. they have money. the police departments reflect

those priorities. is that even something that you would let me finish if we were face to face in a restaurant? would you not cut me off and say yeah, yeah. what's your point? this is obvious. >> i would agree with you. i might get up and start clapping because it is true. the disparity is clear between communities and it is, we are way past the time to address this. we've seen enough in our country. we've had enough. and it is time to do something about it. hopefully we see this conviction happen for chauvin and mr. floyd gets justice and we keep moving. because that's just the beginning. it's just the beginning. we've got a lot of work to do. >> i had somebody say to me on the radio. now, look, you want justice done, fairness under law.

it was a suggestion. i wonder if the jury were to come back hung, or a not guilty verdict, that it may shock so many reasonable white people. holy cow. i can't believe they didn't get this guy. that might have a bigger impact than even a guilty verdict. i'm not suggesting a good outcome over a bad outcome. but there is a reason why the right weaponizes words like mine and says these people are the problem. look what happens with george floyd and said this is not an exam of a bad white guy. it is an example of a bad black guy. and they are every bit as invested in that argument. >> you look at people doing it the right way. the student in the twin cities today had a high school walkout. the kids at st. anthony's walked

out. the kids walked out together. the young people get it. they're moving forward. you have ground troops like acer, a groups that are standing up and they're finding support. it is 42 on the far right, they're doing everything they can to discredit you and the movement. why? because they're scared of the fact that we're winning. this movement is growing. corporate america has come on board. you have politicians now. tim scott, corey booker, we might get legislation. so yes. they are coming after you, chris, they're coming after black lives matter. they understand truth is now only on one side of this thing. we need change. and even those anoon communities are important. guess what, those poor plaque and brown communities make a difference as well. this thing is moving in that direction and that's why they're terrified. >> what is terrifying about that?

to be clear, i take a whooping on a regular basis. i have on it the head of the police union from chicago. the people on the left are very angry. they don't want to hear his perspective. i get it. it's my job to reflect reality. i'm not looking to be popular. wrong business form. but there is equal energy on the, this is not true, what you're doing. this is bad-mouthing cops making it easy to live the wrong way and disobeying the law. they mean it. >> they're not hearing the people. it's tone deaf. one thing did i when i retired, i started to hear other voices. voices that were concerned about policing. black lives matter. defund the police. i go, i sit, i talk with them. not being inside anymore, listening to those voices, they have something powerful to say.

so we can't have our police departments saying, no, we're the cops and this is what we do and you don't know. they do know. you have to listen to them of they have to hear voices just like your voice. if you're willing to take anything they throw ought. guess what, they also need to understand that the other side has something so important to say and we've got to make some difficult decisions and the comes may not be happy that you we have to push on this now. >> i think a lot of cops are happy in terms of of, i have not heard any police defending what this cop did. i mean, an unbelievable wall of silence. and don't forget. who are the main people testifying against this cop? a bunch of other cops saying this is ridiculous. so why this reaction in why do you see people going completely nuts on the other side?

you have police willing toed a mit and acknowledge that it has gone too far. i am praying and hoping that we get the right verdict here. i know for the young people who are watching this thing. a lot is hanging on the balance for them. the reality is, the entire world knows what happened. i thought the prosecution did a good job. i thought the defense today was a laughable joke. they spent two hours saying literally nothing. they refused to deal with the key issue. i think we have a shot at getting something positive done. a movement is forming that includes people on all sides and the right wing is screaming and yelling. they should get on board and help us get to a better place. >> listen, van, i love you. and i love the optimism. and i do believe that we have seen things change since george floyd. it only takes one. i have to keep cautioning the audience. it takes one person to hang this jury.

one person who says listen. i don't like what this guy did. i think it was wrong what he did. but i think this guy george floyd was a little messed up inside. i had a cousin like that. i heard of a guy once. and one is all it takes. so i have to caution people about that. that said, commissioner, when cops talk to me and i have cops all over my life. blacks, whites, doesn't matter. they say don't sleep on how dangerous this job is. i had an african-american officer say it to me literally within days up in boston. em, listen. you discount what we have to deal with. we come in. i've been shot at by a guy like this a hundred times. nobody complies. now they feel like they don't to have come my.

everybody is out to get me. they're writing acab. they call me pig to my face. you did this. what do i say? >> i hate to be the bearer of bad news but that's the job. i've been in those positions. some dynamics may have changed but your training maze a role. the law is the law. you follow your training. you follow the law. you do your job. and the issue is, not what they do. it is what you do. you are a peace officer. they cannot disturb your peace. that's one of the most fundamental things you learn when you become a police officer. you are trained. you use your equipment. you use everything you have to do to do that job. to say, oh, these streets are too tough. quit. quit. policing isn't for you. if you're scared, get out of it.

if you can't function when society says, look, this isn't working for us. we don't feel this. this is wrong. and you don't want to listen? it's not the job for you. i don't know who will step up and take your job or your service weapon but somebody will. hopefully that person can listen to the other voices that say, we've got problems. >> van, quickly. what is your biggest hope over the next day or so? what is your biggest fear? >> my biggest hope is that the jury will come back and say, this was unlawful. and give the most severe penalty possible. that can send a signal that what we've been doing is working. don't forget. it was the protests in the street that got the governor to reach down. take that case, what i thought was a corrupt level prosecutor, give it to keith donaldson, an

african-american elected with a mandate. you can say, if we protest, we've got to keep it peaceful. vote and put in good people. you can get a good outcome. if you have any other thing that goes down, it becomes hard to keep people in the system and you go down very bad path ways. my fear is you can't go back and say your protest mattered. if you don't have that, you have a very difficult time going for it. >> yes, thank you very much. i appreciate the guidance as always. this is living history. we are going to figure something out about the country. not just in the case but in the reaction of the case. and your point was forgotten and it is well met. we would have never gotten to this trial if the situation had been as normal, status quo. it is only because this case as egregious as it was, it was taken out of local hands and put in the state, the attorney general, the state, that you got here.

remember that. it wasn't obvious at the beginning. thank you, commissioner, van, appreciate you. so they're still deliberating. i can't believe it will go that much longer tonight. and i don't know if we'll get word if it happens but unless they go to the jury and say, are you close? are you getting somewhere? aah! we just got word the jury is finished for the night. not unusual. not in a case of this magnitude. they have a number of charges. all that meet the same behavior. i'm sure they're taking their job very seriously. this is heavy. they know what this is about. they know they're about the facts and the law but they know what's going on outside the courtroom as well. they should take it seriously. they should take their time. they will reconvene in the morning. if you don't have a verdict the first half of tomorrow. you have a situation with that jury where there are one or a few people who are insist ten

that they can't find a meeting of the minds with a swung jury. that's when it becomes an issue. if you have it, then it becomes a question whether you can reprosecute. one step at a time. they've gone home for the night. when we look at the legal arguments. the prosecution's argument was very simple today. it was believe what you see and my common sense. the defense said it is not easy to see it because you cannot see what happened to floyd. they said chauvin could have used more force and dchblt i don't know where they were going with that. luckily i have two great brilliant legal minds from two very other high profile trials. they have a tunnel of experience beyond that. the prosecutor of the freddy gray case and the lead investigator in the killing of trayvon martin. next.

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judging by what we heard today and the proof that was brought to bear to support the same over the weeks of the trial, where does it suggest we'll be when the jury comes back? remember, three charges are under consideration. but all for the same universe of behavior. second and third degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. derek chauvin could be acquitted or convicted in any combination of the three. there are a couple of combination that's are very unlikely but let's see when they decide and then we'll digest it. let's see what is weighing on them at this very moment. let's bring in the top minds. i would like to do this a little different. i'll start with you with the suggestion of what the prosecution said and then mark, as, i want to help it along. i really like you to do point, counter point of how this set up.

a lot of people have not been following this day in and day out. so today they're coming back in to reconnect to this. the main thrust of the prosecution was believe what you see. and you know it's wrong because it is wrong. and you have to figure out which law it is. but common sense says everything that was done here is wrong and that's why he's dead. take it from there in terms of why that works and mark, pick up as you see fit. >> so what i think is really smart on the part of the prosecution is to directly confront the fact george floyd is not on trial here. right? even despite the defense's attempt to stigmatize and criminalize and to blame fred for his own death. his drug use, his prior noncooperation with police. it was smart for the prosecution to also play that video again

and again for the jury. so that those grisly images and the pleas of the bystanders and george himself are imparted in the minds of the jury as they deliberate. last but not leaf, the point that you raise, i think it is incredibly smart to appeal to common sense by saying this is a simple case that even a child could understand. and then reminding them about the 9-year-old baby screaming out to get off george floyd. reminding the jury that despite the truth, that the defense is attempting to shade, the jury, you, you saw with your very own eyes. you heard with your very own ears. you know why george floyd died. because he told us. he said he can't breathe. so you know how he died. the medical experts have told us the substantial cause of george

floyd's death was a lack of oxygen due to the unreasonable excessive restraint imposed on his neck for nine minutes and 30 seconds. and the beauty of those arguments, chris, is that there are three avenues for the prosecution to attempt to secure conviction. and all of them require three different states of mind. >> right. and for the jury -- just for the audience at home, what does that mean? he knew what he was doing and he wanted to do it. the other one is, he knew he was doing something that was risky and he continued to do it. and then there is this third degree murder charge that i think is hard. minnesota has litigated it more. it was a big problem in new york. what they call depraved mind murder. his head was in a bad place. and he was doing things he

should have then could really do bad things. wasn't specific to george floyd. it was just a kind of behavior that he had to know no matter who he did it to, he might kill them. it is a tricky one. what do you think they did best on the defense side to cloud the perspective? >> well, remember the defense attorney's job in this case. to show that there is reasonable doubt. even though state has proved something, they have not proved it beyond every reasonable doubt. and that sounds a little insincere as an attorney when you say, it's close but it's not enough. i think did he a decent job of that. what they are supposed to say is always put the burden and keep the burden on the shoulders of the state. the defense has to do absolutely nothing. they can literally sleep at the table according to the constitution. it is only a conviction if the state proves beyond a reasonable

doubt each element. offense. what nelson did is come up with alternative theories. some people might say it was a bit of a shotgun approach. you have to be careful with so many that the jury goes numb to all of them. if you're trying to find reasonable doubt, maybe it is reasonable doubt in the meth, maybe it's reasonable doubt in the fentanyl, maybe reasonable doubt in the heart. but the essence of what the defense should be doing, and i don't know that nelson brought this home, was to say, look. certainly there is reasonable doubt as to the higher offense or offenses. if you have a question about that, maybe it was the fentanyl. maybe it was the meth. may be it was his resistance at some point. maybe chauvin truly did not have that ill will in his heart. maybe he was following poor training. then let us go down to what you might look at. he didn't say it but i wish he

had given the jury a path, not permission, but a path to go toward that manslaughter charge. quite honestly, and i think she might agree, a manslaughter conviction in this case would be a gift to the defense and would be a win for the defense. so maybe he could have done a better job of opening up that possibility for the jury to consider. because though it's very difficult to couldn't 56th a cop of anything in this country, under these facts, they may well and it is the defense's job to lessen what he is convicted of. >> what did you think of the fact that the defense attorney argued, he could have done more. chauvin would have been justified in doing more. i didn't get to see the jurors' faces on that. i heard they were tired, he took long time. what was that about? >> so i was not impressed with

the defense strategy which in my opinion was the same that it always is in police misconduct cases, to stigmatize and blame the victim for their own death. i think that the defense sought the introduction of floyd's drug use, his heart condition, and even the carbon monoxide poisoning to influence the minds of the jury. but it was done as contributing causes to the death. i think the defense really went wrong, where he really went wrong was putting an expert on the stand that testified that chauvin's use of force was not only objectively reasonable and justified but he could have used even more force against floyd because he was resisting. this type of stigmatizing was done in the killings of freddie, gray, sandra bland. so many and even in daunte wright.

the carbon monoxide defense was one they threw against the wall to see if it would stick and i didn't think it was effective. >> here's the problem. not only do you have three different charges that go to three different states of mind for the same behavior which could be confusing. i think it is more of a convenience for the jury. he may be right that fentanyl was involved. maybe somebody has some information medically. hey, that doesn't look right. it was pounded into their heads. that knee didn't have to be the only thing killed him. it doesn't even have to be the main thing that killed him. it just has to be one of the main things. in the case law, they didn't explain it but it really points to the top three. that's tough to get away from. is it not? >> sure. very, very difficult. now is the problem with this case from the beginning the defense. it was if and fond this one cause led to the death. it was literally, was it a substantial cause or a cause i

have the factor, and unfortunately, that's what the statute requires and the defense had a hard time wrapping their head around and it trying to come up with a reasonable explanation as to why reasonable doubt exists, as to, it wasn't a substantial cause. what they did was this approach saying, i can cut back on the substantialiality of this cause of death if i can show you all these other contributors, maybe you'll add up the other possibilities and find the first one the cause of death by chauvin's knee didn't rise to the level of beyond a reasonable death conviction. a very difficult defense to put on. we'll see in probe a few hours or tomorrow what the jury thinks. >> all right. thank you very much. i thought it was really interesting. one of the things the prosecution said. you're not required to accept non-sense.

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former vice president walter mondale has died at the age of 93. you'll remember he served

alongside jimmy carter from '77 to 1981. he then wait a minute the democratic presidential nominee in 1984, picking gerald eenl ferraro as his running mate. what a moment that was. for the democrats but also the nation. the first woman to ever appear on a presidential ticket. he was beat in that election. reagan had a signature victory. signature, rolling into re-election. he only won his home state of minnesota. when you look back at mondale's influence, he was a true statesman. he first came on the national political stage in 1964. u.s. senator. after hugeert humphrey became vp. in later years he went on to become an ambassador to japan and president clinton. he lost the bid to return to the senate as a last-minute fill-in after the death of paul wellstone in 2002. the passing comes on a night when his state is again in the national spotlight. walter mondale, the 42nd

vice president of the united states is dead at the age of 93. if you're wondering, why do you know, i watched that convention. i was there. i was seated next to his wife. and my father gave the key note address. that was my pop's big speech. it was done to boost walter mondale's chances. he was a good man who served this country with head and heart. we'll take a break and then we'll be right back. ♪ (ac/dc: back in black) ♪ ♪ ♪ the bowls are back. applebee's irresist-a-bowls all just $8.99. you know when your dog is itching for a treat. itching for an outing... or itching for some cuddle time. but you may not know when he's itching for help... licking for help...

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we've got our eyes trained on minnesota looking through the camera lenses. let's go to those who are watching through their windows, people like santa paula mayor melvin carter. this is a heavy time to be in leadership. you'll be needed no matter what the outcome is. what does that mean to you? >> this is a time to be in leadership, chris. a heavy time for our entire community. and what we're focused on here is this memory, this notion that no matter what the outcome of the trial, no matter what the jury decides. our work is the same moving forward. to ensure the cycle, this deadly cycle that we keep seeing stops. that we don't add another name tom list. not in america and not in minnesota. and we're committed tom. we're moving forward no matter

what the jury decides. >> let's see what your message is for both sides. one is, this is grossly exaggerated, the media, the left. if you look at the numbers. yes, you have some bad outcomes but these are high crime areas, criminality, and this is about defending the police who have such a hard time in these communities and they're demonized. if george floyd had just complied. what do you say? >> that's what we always hear. if he had just done this. if he had just done that. just last week, we lost daunte wright in minnesota and seem say, why did he run? why was he afraid? maybe he thought there was a possibility that he could be shot on purpose or by accident. by some of the officers who were with him. furthermore, it is very clear why people have a fear of officers, because they keep seeing these events. they keep seeing these incidents play out over and over again. the real question is, are we

willing to accept a legal system in our country in which a minor traffic stop can turn into a deadly encounter with police? the answer has to be no. >> last week in minnesota, you had a 61-year-old white man got into it with police. i don't know if he was in right mind or not. he wound up dragging a cop by his elbow, stuck in the window, and beating the police officer with his own hammer. and he showed up just fine at the station. i'm not saying he shouldn't have. god forbid. nobody else needs to be hurt. but what message does that send? >> it is important that we understand the phrase, black lives matter means. our law enforcement infrastructure in america and minnesota has shown its ability to understand that white lives matter and that other lives matter as well. that's why it is so important that we hammer home this message. that black lives matter. they have to matter. our legal system has to be able to assert that they matter. that our officers and law enforcement systems have to be able to assert that they matter

and we all deserve access to professional, court just, respectful, first responders who can treat all of our communities with dignity and frequent peace and sanctity of all of our neighborhoods. >> you are very measured, mr. mayor. there are those who are not. one of the problems -- no matter where your sympathies lie, there's action and reaction. both can be an issue when it comes to progress. the lieutenant governor peggy flanagan said, i am grappling with a stark reality. minnesota is a place where it is not safe to be black. the brooklyn center mayor said the following. play it, please. >> it's not safe to drive in minnesota while you're black. the fact is there are so many of us who drive, you know, and if we see police behind us, we're

afraid. we're trembling. and that is a kind of terror that no citizens of the, no citizen of the united states should ever have to face. it is constant, ever present. >> do you agree with the sentiments of the alone governor and the brooklyn center mayor? >> both leaders are close personal friends of mine. what i'll tell you, if the alone governor may be citing statistics. she may be citing facts, she may be citing the number of time you've had to turn the eyes of your camera lens to minnesota. there is no excuse, no reason why minnesota should be providing these hashtags to the east and west coast, to the deep south. i will tell you being a young person who spent my high school years driving around minnesota, and my college years driving around, going to school in florida, driving around the deep south. if write to tell but the most

disturbing experiences that i personally had with law enforcement, i would be telling you mostly about minnesota stories. so i think what the maers less than my opinion of those comments is our ability as a state and a community to live them down. >> it is a hard spot for black americans because your outrage at your own reality gets used as proof of you to be blamed for your own reality. so how do we see that made manifest? >> without a doubt. >> go ahead, please. >> i was going to say. it's a hard time for america. a hard time for all of our country when the entire world is eyewitness to something and we have to sit on pins and needles, wonder figure this incident, if the whole world can look at and it see with their own eyes and say that's wrong. we're sitting on pins and needles to find out if our judicial system is capable of holding someone accountability. that's a hard time for our

entire country. i am saddened. i mourn george floyd, daunte wright. because they are black men. they are members of humanity. i assume is must be challenging if you as well. we have i'm not asking folks not to be angry. i'm not asking folks to be calm or to be quiet. quite the opposite. i'm asking our community to take the resolve, to take the energy, to take all that we feel right now, and channel it, directly, into -- into constructing, not destructing, our communities. but constructing a new path forward, in st. paul, in minnesota, and all throughout our country. >> well said. good luck with that mission, going forward. mr. mayor melvin carter, good luck, we'll be watching. all right. we are going to take a quick break. when i come back, a reminder of what we, as human beings, are capable of.

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we're not just about our ugliest moments. okay? here's what i want to show you. i want to show you a video of what we're capable of. we don't have to just be steeped in our nightmares. we can achieve dreams. look at this. soaring, like never before, on mars, with its new helicopter, "ingenuity." it's the first time we have ever flown a chopper on another planet. it flew for about-40 seconds. hit an altitude of ten feet. i know it doesn't sound like much but this is really difficult. the air on the red planet, remember, is very, very thin. so, what is this about? it is a drone, you see 'em in your backyard. yeah, not on mars. this is just a reminder. this is just the beginning. the wright brothers in 1903, got their first flight up in the air. look where we are. we're on a planet people didn't

think they'd see. we are capable of great things in technology, but also, in the simplest of technologies, which is love. we can do better for each other. we'll be right back.

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and so, we wait. the jury has gone home for the night in the george-floyd case. we wait for direction on this specific case, but also, for this country. "cnn tonight" with the big star, d lemon, right now. >> i was having this discussion, earlier. can you compare the interest, in this verdict, to oj simpson? >> can you? yes. we would i? no. >> go on. >> why? that was about what we wanted to see ascribed to a black man, with oj simpson. it was about celebrity. it was about lawyering. there was a lot of drama. it was about mixed-race relationships, and what had been done to oj. it was all these different atmospherics. >> it was race, like this. >> yes. but this is about what can be done to a person of color.