he was 7.2 pounds at birth. and he is sweet and soft and healthy. and i am beyond happy. as a gay kid i never thought it would be possible to have a child. and i'm so grateful for all those who paved the way and for the doctors and nurses and everyone involved in my son's birth. most of all, i am eternally grateful to a remarkable surrogate who carried wyatt, watched over him lovingly, tenderly, and gave birth to him. it's an extraordinary blessing, what she and all surrogates give to families who can't have children. my surrogate has a beautiful family of her own and amazingly supportive husband. i'm thankful for all the support they have given wyatt and me. she has kids of her own and i appreciate her support as well. my family is blessed to have this family in our lives. i do wish my mom, my dad, and my brother carter were alive to meet wyatt. i would like to believe they can see him. he imagine them all together, arms around each other, smiling

and laughing, and watching, looking down on us, happy to know that their love is alive in me and in wyatt and that our family continues. new life and new love. >> and there is the birthday boy himself today. oh, look at that. happy birthday, wyatt, and congratulations, anderson. we could not be happier for both of you. the news continues. let's hand it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." >> beautiful. beautiful. beautiful, healthy babies, birthdays. we want to get back to all of this. i'm happy for anderson, i'm happy for the little boy, and i'm happy for you, jb, you enjoyed that. i'm chris cuomo, welcome to "prime time." we all want to get back to normal. today we were going to hear the new cdc guidelines. and they're out, and they do show we have made progress. you can do more, whether or not you're vaccinated. but they do raise a question. does the vaccine make you immune or not?

97 million of us or so are now fully vaccinated. many are old and infirm. but a lot of you have gotten the vaccine, even though it's not easy, even though you might have the pain of the fauci ouchy or whatever they want to call it. why? because of the data and the representations from the government and even trump, about how this vaccine would be a game changer for you. they would allow you to get back to life on your own terms. and yet as of these guidelines today, which may be all we hear for the rest of the summer, that's not allowed. the guidance says fully vaccinated people can unmask outdoors, walking, running, hiking, biking, alone or with members of your household. the 29% fully vaccinated in america so far can also go mask-free while dining outdoors with friends from multiple households.

but they still require masks or recommend them in crowded outdoor settings. what does that mean? stadiums, concerts. what about beaches? you have to socially distance even if you're vaccinated? how do you let anybody know that you're vaccinated? what about museums? malls? there also, they recommend the mask. so the question is, is this enough? will it help incentivize the rest of the population to get their shots? president biden making the push. >> the bottom line is clear. if you're vaccinated, you can do more things, more safely, both outdoors as well as indoors. so for those who haven't gotten their vaccination yet, especially if you're younger, or thinking you don't need it, this is another great reason to go get vaccinated, go get the shot. it's never been easier. >> it's never been easier but it's still different than any

other vaccine you've ever gotten which means it's not get it and forget it, you're good to go. and what will that mean to the pace of vaccination? because it is slowing. it's averaging out at about 2.7 million shots a day. the peak was 3.4 million shots a day, that was on april 13. scientists estimate we need herd immunity. that's between 70 and 85% of the u.s. population needs to be fully vaccinated. so it raises the question, i wonder if they should have done this differently. should they have showed, here is where we are now, as we get more vaccinated, here is the next tranche, then we're going to do even more relaxed restrictions, then if we get to the next one it's going to be even better and if everybody gets to done by middle of summer, we could be here, which is what life was like before. should they have done it that way, incentivize? people need urging, particularly conservatives in the southeast

and mountain west who may not ever want to get one. we know this isn't about whether the vaccine works. we know it's helping. take a look. even with variants spreading much more rapidly than we had early on, we're averaging around 55,000 new cases a day. that's a lot. but you don't have the hospitalizations, you don't have people dying the same way, you don't even have bad cases the way you used to. and that's because the vaccine rollout has definitely helped slow the virus since january. so what are the obstacles that we see? there is good reason but there's also bad reason. the bad reason is ugly and obvious. it's covidiots, like this guy, playing politics, saying things they would never say if trump were still there, like this tripe. >> the next time you see someone masked on the sidewalk or bike path, do not hesitate, ask politely but firmly, please take off your mask, it's repulsive, don't do it around other people.

your response when you see children wearing masks as they play should be no response to your response to seeing someone beat a kid in walmart. call police immediately. contact child protective services. >> look, i think the guy is a joke, but millions of people watch him. and that message is not his. he's just picking up what's being echoed by all these fringe people. they want you to fear government control over you. he talks about a mask like it was an affliction. science, any notion of you being told to do something, that's mind control. and i can't make this point firmly enough. i don't believe anybody who watches this show pays attention to that guy, i really don't, i have more faith in you than that. but fox's own lawyers argued in open court that, quote, no reasonable viewer would believe tucker swanson mcnear carlson as a credible source of news or anything else.

they are spreading over there what they know is poison because they know the fear sells. it's as simple as that. and if you think there's some better reason, show it to me. there is, however, legitimate reason for some to slow walk getting the vaccine. if it's so safe and effective, why can't the vaccinated do whatever they want to do? it's a legitimate question. white house senior adviser for covid response andy slavitt joins us tonight. it's good to see you. look, this is a nice step. first, what do you think about the idea of showing the road ahead to people? here's where we are now. if we get to this level, it will be this much better. and this level, it will be this -- so they can see where they're going if they do the right thing. >> good evening, chris. i think that's exactly what the president has been doing and is going to continue to do. i think a month and a half ago or so he said we have it in our sights that by the fourth of july, we could be having outdoor gatherings without masks.

look where we are today, we are now having -- the cdc is in a place where i don't think anybody could have imagined, here we are still in april, and we're already at that place. and we're going to go further, because why? because we're beating everybody's assumptions about how quickly we would be vaccinating the country. california is down 90% from its peak in terms of deaths. we are much, much further along than we ever thought we would be. so i would expect that the cdc, whose job, remember, isn't to think about just the person who's been vaccinated but to think about all of us, is going to make these steps maybe not as fast as some people would want but certainly faster than people ever could have imagined we would be at, in my opinion. >> it's one thing -- i don't disagree with the assumption. and i understand you when it comes to people who aren't vaccinated because all you have is prophylaxis and distancing. by your own numbers, 10% of cases happen outdoors.

it's 18.7 times higher odds of transmission indoors. combine that with your own data, 87 million fully vaccinated, just over 7,000 breakthrough investigations. it's like 0.005%. you know, the research was that you take the vaccine because it gives you immunity. and why not treat it that way and let the vaccinated live their lives? >> look, think about all the things that you can do if you're vaccinated today. you can gather, you can go to restaurants, you can do all these things. and if you're vaccinated, it's just simply not safe for you. just watch the news and look what's happening in india if you need some motivation to get vaccinated. this thing is still lethal. the cdc, it's one thing for a guy like me to go on twitter and say, oh, let's get rid of everything because i've been vaccinated. but if you're the cdc, the cost of a misstep, the cost of going

too fast and having to go backwards is you lose everybody in the process. so they're taking their steps and i think they're doing a great job. they're bringing the country along. their job is to get it right for the disease and for the country, not for any one individual. and i think in doing that, i think we'll find that these things will come off more and more. i walked around today outside without a mask. i think it was great. there's more and more things we can do without a mask. i think if you're not vaccinated, that's not the principal reason you should do it but that's one reason you should do it. >> i think that people don't understand. now you have people who don't want to get the vaccine. some of them are anti-vaxxers, some of them are just making a political play. a lot of people need to know it's worth it for them, because otherwise you can die. i don't understand why it's different from other vaccines, you give your kids the vaccines,

you don't still protect them going forward. either the vaccine makes you immune or it doesn't, and the research suggests that it does, doesn't it, andy? >> for the 15 to 20% of people who describe themselves as being on the fence, we've done a lot of research, we've done a lot of listening to them. here is what we hear. they say they make decisions at different paces, it takes a little more time, they want more information, they want to talk to people who have been vaccinated to see what their experience was like, to understand that the side effects were not terrible. they want to talk to their doctor locally. what they don't want is to be manipulated by the government or pressured or labeled. they want to be respected for going through the process at their pace. so you'll see in our strategy, we are bringing lots and lots of local physicians and people up to speed, to have these conversations with people because they're going to have it. i don't think the cdc's job is to say let's create an incentive that will make people want to get vaccinated. i think their job is to do the safe thing and make the right call.

i think our job is to get people reliable answers to be able to questions, because we're finding that little by little, as that happens, more people are getting vaccinated because they're to go other people who have been vaccinated and it worked out well for them. >> i'm with you. but let me just take one more swing at this. i still don't understand the sale on the vaccine. get the vaccine, you won't die. i don't think i am going to die. get the vaccine, you won't kill somebody else. i don't think i'm going to kill somebody else. get the vaccine because you will be able to get back to work and to life on your own terms. that's what trump said. that's what fauci and everybody else said, that the vaccine is our way through it. these guidelines say, yeah, kind of, kind of, but you still can't go to ball games and do things the way you used to even if you're vaccinated. i don't understand why you slow walk that part. >> i think we're in the middle of a process. i think what people want to understand is this. 140 million or so people have gotten vaccine shots.

overwhelmingly safe. dramatically good results. >> i agree. >> that's what they care about. >> 0.0009 people died, that's almost your standard deviation of randomness. >> right. and for most people, what really matters is, who have not taken the vaccine yet, is, is there a side effect. if there's not, they're confident that we will be getting back to normal if they can see these signals from the president, from the cdc, what he says about fourth of july. what i will tell you is, he will say more. you can expect him to continue to say more, as things come in. and, you know, it will probably be faster than people who are very conservative want it to be and slower than people who have already had their shot and are done with this. but their job isn't to make everybody happy. their job is to follow the data, to listen to what the cdc has to say. they're doing it in a measured way. look where they've gotten us. >> i'm not bashing the cdc. >> i know that.

>> i'm trying to say, here is the side effect of the vaccine you need to worry about most. check out andy, chris, all their friends, in this bar, having drinks and laughing their heads off because they're fully vaccinated and you can't be there because you're not. you know, that's the side effect, is you get to live life more if you have the vaccine. that's why i'm saying, unless the science supports it in a way that i haven't seen from you guys, why put any restraints on the vaccinated? >> let me roll it up this way. everything you do is safer if you're vaccinated. everything. go to a wedding, go to a restaurant, hang out with friends, go to a barbecue, go to work, everything you do is much, much safer if you've been vaccinated. if you haven't been vaccinated, those things are still dangerous. and that is i think the overarching point. forget about the steps, because we'll be there -- you know, one week will be this step, next week will be another step.

but the fundamental point is we're going to get back to normal and it's going to be normal for people who have been vaccinated and it's going to be more risky for people who are not. and that's the message that i hope people hear. >> they're going to hear it loud and clear, you said it plenty, i'm happy you said it here, andy slavitt, appreciate you. >> thank you, chris. >> i'll speak to you soon, be well and thank you. look, it's good news we're moving in the right direction. what am i pushing for? transparency. if there's something about the vaccine we need to know, and i don't believe there is, then go big, because that's why we're getting it. i didn't want to get it. i already had covid. they told me i had antibodies. i got it anyway. you do feel like you might have covid again. it was spooky for me too. but then it passed so i did it because i want the freedom. so give it to us. that's all i'm saying. that matter, that mechanism matters in everything.

that's the problem in north carolina right now, to transition to that story. the lawyers are speculating. people are speculating. i'm going to show you a new little snippet of the video that will just make it clear to you that you don't know anything. that's where we are. why? because even though this case has been handed over to the state, supposedly, there's still no video. put out the body cam video. the fbi is now getting involved in the deadly shooting of andrew brown. they're going to see if it was racially motivated. give us the body cam videos. that's what we need. no speculation. don't take the families' lawyers' words for it, don't look at a little piece. they're doing this to us. why? now we have the mayor of elizabeth city involved. she is here, along with our policing vet, on the new questions that are raised by what we know, what we don't know, and a private autopsy, next.

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there is new video to show you. a source says that it shows sheriff's deputies arriving in a pickup truck to serve a warrant on andrew brown jr. this happened last wednesday as part of a drug task force probe. now, the new video comes to us on the same day that the fbi announced it's opening a federal civil rights investigation into the deadly shooting. this will be a review to see if they were using the color of authority, the color of law, which means the power invested in them, and using it or abusing it with racial animus. it's a very high bar. but it's indicative of the concern the situation is raising. also, an independent autopsy, okay, this is one that was commissioned by the family. it shows that brown was shot five times.

the autopsy suggests the death shot was one at the back of the head, while he was driving away. we still don't know why deputies took that action. if it turns out to be confirmed, then we will know that this is one situation to answer for. but we don't get what happened here because nobody is telling us, even though they have the ability to do so. even the family only got 20 seconds of the body cam video which did not help them understand what happened. elizabeth city's mayor, who has put the city under curfew this evening, has joined the governor's calls for the body cam video to be released. we asked her to join us tonight with anthony barksdale, former acting commissioner of police in baltimore. madam mayor, thank you for joining anthony and i tonight. >> and thank you for having me. >> so just to be clear, i was thrown by this north carolina

law. i didn't know it was in place. i had never heard it in north carolina or somewhere else, being exercised as a delay factor on transparency. had you? >> no. i didn't know anything about the law until this came about. as i talked with others, i told them that our community is just torn apart, the family is devastated. i always send out my condolences because i know they're just -- they're awe-struck as to why they have not received the body cam as of yet. i did not know anything about this law, where you have to wait on the superior court to release it. >> why couldn't it have been fast tracked the first time the county attorney said this is why it's not happening, basically last thursday, couldn't the governor just overrule or send an order to the court?

north carolina, like most states, that's the ultimate authority. or is there something you can do? why do you have to wait on this underling county attorney and the local police? >> we don't have any recourse. we simply have to wait. we have to follow the law. we have to go through the process until the law is changed. this is what i'm being told. in fact, i have not had very much conversation with the county officials. of course i know you know by now there's a difference between -- there are two law enforcement agencies here in pasquotank county, the sheriff's department and the elizabeth city police department. we were not involved in it. but because it happened in our city, of course we are monitoring the protests and everything that's going on. but we have no recourse as to what to do, what the city

council did was put a request in to the sheriff's department, to the d.a., and also to superior court to release the body cam. and i think a lot of media outlets have done the same thing. but that's all we can do. >> cnn is part of that media effort to do it. thank you. and i'm going to show anthony now the latest piece of footage, please feel free to weigh in, madam mayor. bark, i've never heard anything like this. this is the latest video. you see the guys pulling down. i haven't been able to find out if these guys were s.w.a.t., special weapons and tactics, we all know what s.w.a.t. teams are. i don't know if they're s.w.a.t. or not or just up in their gear. but you see them coming around the corner. they stop. we have it highlighted for you. another cruiser comes behind them. then they get out, have some kind of talk, i don't know what's going on.

the family attorney suggests within four seconds they started to shoot and they don't believe that's enough time to comply, which is another brick in their wall of argument that this was an execution. you know, i don't know how much you can take from this other than the fact that we should be able to see more at this point. >> i look at this and i just see what i call a bunch of cowboys. and the mayor is left with a horrible incident in her city that was caused by a county element. one of the biggest things is something, especially when working narcotics, any of these task forces, you have to deacon de conflict. jurisdictions need to need when another one is coming into their area. if her chief didn't know, it's disrespectful to her as mayor and her constituents.

so now we've got that issue, which is just unacceptable. when you talk about this body cam, and they show 20 seconds, we know that it's longer. we know there's so many other angles that we need to see. come on. what are you hiding? what is going on here? and now you've got a mayor that's had to put in a curfew because of their actions. and they're walking around like, oh, wow. so we've got problems. i'm so happy, chris, that the fbi is down there, because they will get down to business. and that's what's needed. and i have to say, chris, i feel sorry for the mayor and her city. i do. >> i hear you. i appreciate you. we now know from an independent autopsy, which i've never seen an independent autopsy be this wrong in terms of, you know, the identification of wounds.

and you know all the entries are on the back side, so that means he was shot from behind. and we know they have a very narrow window of legality in order to justify that. so the questions are over, bark. -- obvious. it's the lack of transparency that is keeping us at a standstill. madam mayor, i can't do better than bark did in articulating the position you've been put in. i hope people on the streets are patient but it's hard to be patient when they know they're being denied information. if we can help with anything we've learned, please let us know, madam mayor. >> thank you, sir, thank you so much. at least to be able to say this much to the public. thank you. >> yes, ma'am. and bark, look, they can delay hoping we'll go away. it's not going to happen. >> that's right. >> i'll see you soon. we'll stay on it. we want transparency. if the officers need to be cleared, let's get them cleared, because they're killing their reputation now by hiding this. >> yes. yes. >> madam mayor, bark, thank you.

transparency. i don't want to do it that way, show that you corner of the video. what does that help you understand? they come rolling up, it takes four seconds before they shoot. i don't know. then don't show it to us. that's not how it work. there's somebody dead here. there's a family grieving. it doesn't make any sense. the community is destabilized, not by this, not by us worried about it, but by what's obvious. this is like a throwback situation. it doesn't make any sense. there is a law. what kind of magic key law is this, like there's some process that nobody can get around any faster? no emergency order? really? never heard of it before. never. let's see how the fbi does. all right. the census. it's going to be a big deal. why? people are losing seats. there's going to be a redistricting fight, it may be the biggest one in american history. why do you care? you know why. you control the districts. you control who gets in. you control congress.

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census data is out and it's going to lead to redistricting. redistricting, gerrymandering, what do i care? oh, you care. you've seen the crazy maps, like maryland's third district,

texas' 33rd, illinois' 44th, all these crazy things. why? because they're trying to shoehorn the people they want in those districts. it's about how money get appropriated. you think, what do i care, if it's not going in my checking account? you're wrong. these maps, as messed up as they look, they're not just proof of politicians from both parties playing the same old games. this is why nothing gets done. it's why the crazy is amplified like never before. this is how the people who work for you make sure they don't have to listen to you. see, you want to gauge how much this matters, look at the speed of the lawsuits being filed. that speed speaks to how thin the margins are. 50/50 in the senate. but remember, the 50% of the republicans, the 50 seats they have, they represent a fraction of the number of people that the democrats do. the six-seat spread in the house. again, you have a minority with as much, almost, representation

as a much bigger majority. why? redistricting. in theory, those tight margins should shift, right? power should go to the middle, make folks work together to get stuff done. no, it's not happening. why? you have to go back to the last census. ten years ago, a way bigger jump for people color than for whites. they were moving to places that have long voted republican. i believe that is going to continue. yet the gop maintains power. how? relying even more on white people. why? redistricting. okay? the last time we saw it, it's where the tea party came from. congressmen like ohio's jim jordan. his district is over 90% white, 10% higher than the rest of the state. jeez, what a koinky-dink. look who joined him.

the late john lewis called it an affront to the spirit and letter of the voting rights act. same thing is playing out as we speak, most of the growth in this country is people of color. once again, numbers are growing in the south and the west. so what's the concern? who's going to get the power. because republicans ten years ago were playing to political advantage at the state level. the party of today is working to carve america into a us and them. whether it's restricting access to the polls, limiting constitutional rights to protest, banning treatment for trans kids. all an active effort in states that are about to pick up congressional seats. my next guest calls this a republican acquisition and retention of illegitimate power. recognize him? former ag eric holder, ag of the united states. his mission, protect the right to vote. take this on. it's big. we've got a lot to talk about. let's get after it, right after this.

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one person won't count. one person, one count. that's it, right? every voter counts the same. basic. but we see that idea being tested. in the conversation about policing, but also about redistricting. my next guest is uniquely qualified to go deep on both.

former attorney general of the united states under president biden, eric holder. good to see you, sir. >> good to see you, how are you doing? >> doing better than i deserve. so you have 80% of the increase in eligible voters between 2010 and 2020 coming from latino, black, and asian-americans. what are you complaining about on the left? these are your people. that's where all this white replacement bs is coming from. what is actually happening despite the changes in the demographics? >> the demographics might be changing, but the distribution of political power is not changing. in fact power is being taken away from those groups. what the republicans are try to do is to maintain the illegitimate power that they obtained during the redistricting that happened ten years ago by voter suppression and by engaging in gerrymandering through the course of the redistricting process that we are just about to start. >> are they poised to take

advantage of the redistricting process again this time, if so, why? >> well, they're going to certainly try. but they're not going to be as successful as they were in 2011. the democrats are far more organized now. i head the national democratic redistricting committee. we have focused solely on this redistricting process since 2017. we've put in place commissions to draw the lines instead of politicians. we have elected people who will be involved in the redistricting process such as governors will be able to veto the maps put forward by republican legislatures. we've also galvanized our advocacy program. we have people all around the country who are focused on this issue in a way that we were not focused in 2011. now, having said all that, it's going to be difficult, especially in states like texas, north carolina, georgia, and florida, where they have a trifecta, they control both the governorship and both houses of the legislature. those are going to be the most difficult states for us. >> and what happens if this goes against your interests?

>> well, we've got litigation alternatives. we can certainly, where they engage in racial gerrymandering, we can use the federal courts. when they engage in partisan gerrymandering, it's more difficult as a result of a decision by the supreme court which said you can't bring partisan gerrymandering cases in the federal courts, a disastrous and terrible decision. but we can bring partisan gerrymandering cases, as we have, in the state courts based on the state constitutions. we've been successful in states like north carolina. as well as pennsylvania. we have tools. our biggest tool would be for congress to pass hr 1 which is now s 1, the for the people act that would do away with, outlaw partisan gerrymandering, define what it is and give us another tool to make the system fair. let me be clear, i'm not trying to gerrymander for democrats. i just want it to be fair,

i'm confident because if it's fair, democrats will do just fine. republicans want to cheat. they're okay being a minority party that has majority power. >> i'll be worried if the cyber ninjas get involved in the redistricting process. if you hear the word cyber ninjas, you have a problem, mr. ag. the facts here, help me understand the context. 38% of districts are controlled exclusively by neither party. they're either independent commissions or split partisan control. gop controls 43% otherwise, democrats only 17. but states where republican control only added two seats. so what do all those numbers mean? >> well, it means that the process, it might seem a little stark, 43 to 17. but the reality is that 38% that's controlled that's

commissions, for instance, or some other reform measure. that's going to be fine for democrats. you know, again, where the system is fair, democrats will do just fine. what i'm concerned about is when you see the increase in the population, as you said, with regard to hispanics, african-americans, asians, young people, people who live in the suburbs. those are people who tend to vote democratic. what they're going to do, i suspect, in texas is try to gerrymander, draw the lines in such a way to minimize the acquisition of power by those groups and maximize the retention of power by a republican party that doesn't have popular support. >> let's talk about fairness in a couple of other contexts. i have never seen what's happening in north carolina right now with this process for releasing the body cam. i have to believe that if the county attorney just released it, nobody would have said anything about this law. you were the ag. did you ever hear of a law like this before, that seemingly nobody can get fast tracked? >> i don't understand it. i'm not familiar with a law like that. i have to think that if people

in law enforcement, the d.a., whoever decided that this is material they wanted to have put out in public, that they could find a way to do that. by not doing that, they're fueling suspicions. they're creating disunity in the community down there. if there's something that is problematic, you need to get it out there and try to explain it. if there's nothing to worry about, you certainly need to get it out there. but this leads to all kinds of conspiracy theories. we don't really know what happened. we've seen bits and pieces of videos. but it seems to me that they ought to use the power that they undoubtedly have to get this material in front of the public. >> the doj is looking at it now. you were the attorney general. i respect the position. i'm not going to ask you about investigations that are just starting. but i will ask you this, sir. when we know more about what they want to do, whether it's louisville or north carolina looking for racial animus in the color of authority there, i would love to have you back so you can help people understand what the investigations mean and don't mean. >> sure, be glad to.

these new pattern and practice investigations that they're announcing and that they're going to be using i think to a much greater degree than we use income the trump administration, as an important tool to bring the criminal justice reform that i think the country really wants. >> once we see what happens in minnesota, louisville, north carolina, we'll talk about whether we're moving the right way and why. eric holder, thank you. we will stay on redistricting. as there are developments, you have a place here to make the case. >> it's an important subject. everybody needs to be focused on it. we need to have a fair process, nothing more than that, just a process that is fair. >> thank you, sir, and be well. >> okay, take care. what happens when the process isn't fair? arizona. i mean, this is just a kooky attempt to keep the big lie alive. who wants to do an audit or a recount in secret? just think about that. it's complete anathema, it's complete the opposite of what you want. you want people to know it was done right.

let's bring in a top elected republican in maricopa county. why doesn't this gentleman believe that this is good even when it's been run by his own party? next. seed alone for full, green grass. everything else just seems... slow. it's lawn season. let's get to the yard.

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arizona republicans, desperate to keep the big lie alive.

why else push a recount of 2020 election ballots in maricopa county in secret? that's the key phrase. all the pledges of transparency. we just want to make sure it was fair. we just want to make sure it's fair next time. listen to what the spokesman for this audit, okay? listen to what he said. and how they expect to pay this shady firm called the cyber ninjas. >> there's nothing about this audit that has anything to do with trying to overturn the 2020 election. it's only about -- it's only about how to make elections better going forward. we initiated the contract with $150,000 and they took some risk along with the auditing companies that the difference would be made up by contributions and donations from people all over the country. and that's exactly what's happening. >> why?

let's bring in jack sellers, chairman for the maricopa county board of supervisors. thank you, sir. i hope the interview finds you well. >> i'm doing well. thank you for having me. >> help me understand. we want to make sure that our elections are fair and safe, and we do so by pushing transparency. now your party is advocating some kind of, i don't know, display that is being done in secret. do you like this? >> no, i'm certainly frustrated right now. you know, when this all started, i didn't really object that much because anything -- you know, whatever the number of people that are still questioning the results of the election, if we could do something that would make them feel better about it, i was willing to do that. but as this has developed and the people that have been involved in the audit have been

announced, certainly it doesn't seem like we're on the path to make that happen. >> and this is your party. the arizona senate president says these guys are well qualified, well experienced, the cyber ninjas. you go on their website, it's a joke. nobody knows who they are. they've never done anything like this before. what do you think's going to happen if they come up with suggestions of fraud? >> you know, i don't know how to predict that. all i can tell you is that when we -- when we learned as much as we did about how this was being handled the subpoena that we had demanded that we deliver the ballots and the equipment to the arizona state senate and we complied with that subpoena. but in doing so we ensured that everything that we delivered was received by the senate.

not by a contractor but by either the senate or someone who had been given the authority to sign for the senate and they signed an agreement that they were accepting full responsibility for the material at that point. and it certainly is not at this point our audit. we have nothing to do with it. we're not involved with it in any way. >> what does it tell you that they want their methods to be kept secret? >> you know, i'm baffled by that. because as you probably know, everything we did through the whole election process we did very openly. we had the press watching us. we had members from both major political parties involved. anytime anybody was working with ballots we always had both parties watching. you know, everything we've done complied completely with arizona

law every step of the way. that has been so important to us. and it became a kind of a problem as we worked our way through the pandemic because a lot of things changed. and having a safe, secure, efficient election and through that process we contacted people at the legislature, at the secretary of state's office, at the attorney general's office to ensure that we were staying within the guidelines of the law at every step of the process, and we feel very confident in what we did, and we ran a very, very good, clean, efficient election even given the pandemic. >> well, listen, we've gotten no proof to suggest anything different. but now it is your party that is doing this and it's doing it in a way that really does raise questions about whether or not this is just to poison popular sentiment about the election. so we'll watch.

and i appreciate your desire that it be played straight. jack sellers, be well. >> thank you. appreciate it. >> we'll be right back. the bras you've got the looks♪ ♪let's make lots of money♪ ♪you've got the brawn♪ ♪i've got the brains♪ ♪let's make lots of♪ ♪uh uh uh♪ ♪oohhh there's a lot of opportunities♪ with allstate, drivers who switched saved over $700. saving is easy when you're in good hands. allstate click or call to switch today. at qvc, we're celebrating you during our friends and family event. all april long you'll find the brands you love,

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