millions of worshippers congrating in the same area. a lot of anger and criticism for the government's handling of this situation. >> clarisa, thank you for that powerful report. thanks very much, "ac 360" begins. >> republican house leader kevin mccarthy has a decision to make and may affect the entire future of the republican party. it is the highest ranking republican in the house liz cheney who is repeatedly and publicly expressed destain for the lies and actions taken by the former president. cheney did it again today behind closed doors. cnn learned congresswoman cheney this afternoon told a group of conservatives at a conference in georgia that to accept the idea that the 2020 election was stolen is quote poison in the bloodstream of our democracy. we'll have more on what she said in a moment but how republican house member kevin mccarthy deals with cheney is an open

question, after all, kevin mccarthy is anything but consistent and emseems to chang his ocpinion on how the politicl winds with blowing. >> the president bears responsibility for wednesday's attack on congress by mob rioters. he should have immediately denounced theunfolding. these facts require immediate action by president trump. >> keeping them honest, the speaker was a man with a unique vantage point to judge the culpability because they had a phone conversation on january 6th as the riot was happening. lawmakers briefed on the call told cnn they were told mccarthy was pleading with the president to help against the rioters. but the former president told mccarthy quote well kevin, i guess these people are more upset about the election than you are. it sounded like mccarthy was finally taking a stand on january 13th against the former president against the then president who he thought would

be a former president. just a week after his docomment on the house floor a different kevin mccarthy emerged. >> leader mcconnell said that former president trump and other important people provoked the folks to come to the capitol. do you believe that president -- then president trump provoked? >> i don't believe he provoked if you listen to what he said at the rally. >> well, in one week he went from saying the president bears responsibility to quote i don't believe he provoked and a week after that comment mccarthy went to mar-a-lago to meet with the then former president and there is no mistaking the meaning of this photo. he is all but kissing the former president's reign and that's what this is about, loyalty and not policies, no, loyalty to one man and to show loyalty, means pretending all the lies he spouts are true. congresswoman cheney is one of the few republicans in congress not afraid of the former

president or at least not afraid to speak out for the truth. senator mitt romney has also spoken out and like cheney voted for the former president's impeachment. here is how he was received this weekend at a republican conference. >> you know me as a person who says what he thinks and i don't hide the fact i wasn't a fan of our last president's character issues. and i'm also no fan -- >> boo! show some respect! >> the senator barely survived a sensor vote from that group not long after the booing stopped but congresswoman cheney might not be so lucky when it comes to her leadership position in the party. a lawmaker voted in february to keep congresswoman cheney in position and after speaking with colleagues, it's clear her support in the conference is wayning and the face of that cheney again today spoke out and jamie joins us with that breaking news. so what more are you learning about what congress woman cheney said today? >> it's clear, anderson, as you

said, liz cheney is not afraid of donald trump. and what she did today was double down. she basically said that this is about truth versus lies. this isn't even about the heart and soul of the republican party for her it's about saving democracy and i just want to read what she said quote we can't rebuild the party or the consecutive movement on the foundation of lies. we can't embrace the notion the election is stolen. it's a poison in the bloodstream of our democracy. we can't be a cult of personality, we can't whitewash what happened on january 6th or perpetuate trump's big lie. it is a threat to democracy. what he did on january 6th is a line that cannot be crossed. and i'll tell you anderson from what i'm learning, this is just the beginning. i think you will see liz cheney

come out again this week, this month, this year. it is her -- when she voted for -- to impeach donald trump, she meant what she said, and she is going to keep fighting and calling him out. >> it's so interesting because clearly, kevin mccarthy, you know, has sensed the political winds shifting after he made that initial statement on january 13th, by a week later he changed his tune and went down to mar-a-lago to try to, you know, document the moment on film. so is liz cheney unaware of the political winds within the republican party or is she aware that there is more quiet support for her or is she simply making a stand for what she believes is the truth, whatever the consequence is for her? >> she's making a stand. she is very aware. whether she loses her leadership post or loses her seat, she

believes that democracy comes above politics. let me just talk about kevin mccarthy. my sources are telling me that kevin mccarthy is going after liz cheney for one reason and one reason only. he is trying to get back into donald trump's good graces because he wants to be speaker of the house and he thinks the only way there is to get donald trump fundraising and his political support. that's what this is about. >> and what is the likelihood of mcelderry mccarthy calling for a vote on cheney's potential removal as a conference share? >> i think it's going to happen and it's likely that it will happen on may 12th at 9:00 that morning. they have their republican conference i'm being told that either kevin mccarthy will call

for the vote or an ally but no question, he is orchestrating this move against liz cheney as a way to do donald trump's bidding. >> appreciate it. i want to get perspective from tomfreedman, author of thank you for being late and tons of others best seller and important books, as well. tom, there are a lot of democrats maybe watching now what is going on in the republican party and think great, let them fight amongst themselves. you and i have talked about this before. this isn't just some internal republican squabble. you said this actually matters for the future of the democracy. >> anderson, people ask me how i feel i give an answer that sounds like english is my second language. i say to them, country not right. country not right. our country is not right. what liz cheney is doing and mitt romney is doing is standing

up for our democracy. i think people have been lulled here. in the very best way with joe biden doing terrific job and dealing with the vaccination, terrific job in getting the stimulus checks out. there is a sense out there that everything is okay. everything is not okay. anderson, our democracy today is as threatened as at any time since donald trump took that elevator ride. why is that? because something very gradual happen and started to happen quickly. just in the last few weeks. and that is that basically subscribing to the big lie that this election was stolen has become a prerequisite now for thriving surviving and rising in this republican party and what does that mean, anderson? it means that this gop is going to be built on a gigantic lie.

now, how could you possibly trust this party in power again if the calling card of giving into this party is claiming our last election, the greatest election certainly in modern american history where more republicans and democrats voted in the middle of a pandemic, their votes were counted by neighbors and republican judges and election monitors affirmed the votes and the attorney general and fbi director appointed by trump confirmed the integrity of the election that denying all of that and making the calling card of this party that you have to subscribe to this big lie that is terrifying. think what would happen if they got back into power and therefore what liz cheney is doing and mitt romney are doing is just not fighting for the republican party, they certainly are, but fighting for the

democracy. so much danger than people realize. >> what is so interesting what about you're saying and scary is it's in more -- if it's in as much danger as before, it's in more danger because as you said, most people have been lulled into a feeling of like you know what, the foot is off the gas pedal, we don't have crazy tweets every day. things are moving along fine. we're optimistic about coming out of this pandemic but when you start to drill down, there was a cnn april follow found 70% of americans don't think president biden legitimately won and republican legislatures across the country are passing laws to limit voting assess. >> not w just imagine for one second, we have over 300 bills over 40 states trying to promote

voter suppression. imagine 2022 or 2024, 40% plus of the country elects the next president and who dominates the senate in the house if we get real minority rule based on voter suppression, that's what c cheney and romney are doing trying to fight this because that big lie is what is then giving permission for all these voter suppression legislations and something enormous is at stake here and i think the reason people are being lulled is not only because of biden's success and calm but it actually happened really fast. it's happened in the last couple weeks where everyone fell into line and people like kevin mccarthy, they're willingness to politically prostitute themselves in order to, you know, get the speaker of the house, it is breathtaking that

someone would shamelessly is just chilling. imagine, if you would do that, what will they do once their in power to keep power? we are in real danger here. >> there are also selling their souls to a earnperson, the form president with no loyalty or shame who has destain for these very people who are traveling down to mar-a-lago to suck up to him. >> well, again, that's part of mystery here that there is only a few people adam kinzinger, mitt romney, march liz cheneys, in politics is great and the house and senate is great but surely, it isn't something we're selling your soul for to go down in history selling your soul to this man, this soulless man who

cares nothing for the laws and constitution of this country. it is absolutely incomprehensible to me but it is happening and what i'm trying to say, anderson, it started to happen really quickly. just in the last few weeks where what we thought was a big lie that would fade away in fact what's happened is it has become the embracing of that big lie has become the ticket into this party, into trump's endorsement and the future. >> so if it is a threat to democracy itself, what do americans do about it? to those who believe it a threat? >> every principled republican and there are so many because they stood up to defend this election, every principled republican has to rally what liz cheney is doing and she clearly decided she's going to politically die on this hill.

she has taken a principle stand. mitt romney is a good man. he is taking a principle stand. when he looked down at the audience in utah last weekend, he said something important. he said aren't you embarrassed? aren't you embarrassed? really, aren't you ashamed at what you're doing? we all have to help them, but anderson, i want to take you back to post 9/11 and what was going on in the middle east then and what was i arguing at the time about the muslim world. you have to have a war of ideas. you have to have a war of ideas inside the slum. we can't change it from the outside. this is your story and narrative and republicans today need a war of ideas inside the republican party in order to make sure that honest and fair and positions of integrity and people triumph because if they don't and they get back into power, we are in real danger. i'm sorry, until they have this

internal fight and the only way to cure that is to keep them out of power. >> republicans used to actually be a party of ideas whether one agree with them or not there were a lot of ideas floating around and arguments made and the former president had ideas with the personalities there is irony in what happened today. if you recall liz cheney said and the former speaker paul ryan and fox news spent months. >> it's clear this is a network with a party, not a party with a network, you know, and, you know, rupert murdoch they will have to answer to history. they are allowed from there and

just can't tell you how important this moment is and just how important and what liz cheney is doing empower and inspire other principals just before allowing george w. bush coming out and basically what she's saying. so i think the fight is finally, finally being engaged and got bless liz cheney for having the courage to stand up virtually alone in the beginning, her and romney and i think you're going to see them find supporters and now i think people will start to stand up and people, kevin mccarthys will have flip-flopped and gone along with the shameful big lie. i think in the end, i'm really going to regret it. i sure hope so. >> appreciate that, thanks very much. we'll continue the conversation with two republican party

insiders including a former member of congress. what does congresswoman cheney hope to achooiieve as the forme president hopes to hold the power in the house and a famous attorney and defender of the president is coming to the aid of rudy ghouiuliani in the wake fbi raid. details when we continue.

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♪ i need it ♪ ♪ to make me happy ♪ ♪ baby, yes i do mean you ♪ ♪ i see it ♪ ♪ and i like it ♪ ♪ and i want it ♪ ♪ yes, i do ♪ ♪ woo! breaking news, liz cheney is not letting up as he faces a possible second attempt to remove her from leadership. the call for the vote could come on the morning of may 12th. she told a group of conservatives the republicans can't quote whitewash january 6th nor perpetuate the big lie. quote, it is a threat to democracy she said. two prospectives from inside the republican party, former congressman denver wriggle man of virginia and communications director for ted cruz and cnn political commentator.

if this comes down to standing with liz cheney or perpetuating the big lie, it doesn't seem like the odds are good for cheney. does the foundation of the republican party become a lie? >> yes. i mean, right now it already is a lie. she's fighting to change that dynamic. we had an incredible situation after the election. you had, what, 147 members of congress voting to object to biden's election after the insurrection, 18 attorneys generals trying to cancel votes, dozens of conservative groups attempting to cancel votes through state legislatures? that is the dynamic liz cheney is trying to change. the odds are clearly stacked against her but what makes this so different are the stakes. she's a member of leadership making this statement. we haven't had that. we had other people look at this landscape, throw up their hands and say we can't do anything about it. paul ryan resigned and jeb bush

wouldn't show up at conventions. she's digging her heels in and making the argument to anybody that asks the question and that question is not going away whether they get rid of liz cheney in leadership or not. >> yeah, paul ryan resigned on the board of fox news now. congr congressman wriggleman, what do you think will happen in the short and long term with the former president clearly still being the driving force in the republican party? >> i think in the short term through 2022 you'll see a lot of success and, you know, liz is out there screaming along, adam kinzinger as you remember, anderson, i did this last year. >> yeah. >> i know what it feels like to be alone and the best analogy i have is you feel like a freshman with braces at a high school prom. i mean, you're by yourself and there is really nowhere to go and when you're seeing polling that you're seeing right now with those still sort of attached to stop the steal, you

get a little discouraged and i think that's the issue that we have instead of looking at facts, this is almost become a holy war where it's the belief or this irrational need to have an idea the election was stolen because it didn't match your parameters and you see the conference look like it will turn on liz, the only reason they would do that is polling, internal polling is showing that liz isn't polling well. that's the only thing i can think of because kevin just supported her not long ago. there must be internal polling and that concerns me, also because to have this kind of flip this fast which isn't that rare right now, the republican party to flip your positions quickly but seems there is something going on internally that is a red flag for republicans about liz and all of a sudden they turned their messaging guns on liz and that's a shame. >> amanda, is this just fear of their own voters, fear of the

loudest voices in the party who still support the president and that's what all these folks in congress are just listening to? >> it is about fear but i think it really about something more pathetic. it's about a lack of a vision from anything different than trump. you have the people looking at the polling and they don't have a better argument to make to those voters than hey, let's double down on the insurrection. i mean, to me, that is really just the bottom level of politics here. this fight with liz cheney is not about policy. it about doubling down on the election lie because they looked at the landscape and aftermath of 2020 and just said we don't have a better idea so we'll double down and stage a b.s. voting rights fight to try to restrict voting to stop these people from coming back in 2024. it is just people cannot think of any collision.

you know what? go ahead. try to win, i don't know nascar, major league baseball. i don't know who is left in this tent besides matt gaetz and marjorie taylor greene and kevin mccarthy, if you want to go down the road, they hold the power anyway. >> congressman, tom freedman said this is a threat to democracy. liz cheney said it is. do you agree? >> i agree. if you look forward, how will we have a policy discussion based on facts? where do we go from here? i had this argument with somebody in a committee meeting. i said i'm telling you now there is not satan worshipping child blood sucking people. they said you're being paid by sorrows and you're changing sexual orientation of children. it hard to have a discussion based on facts when that's the

automatic belief and that's not based on here in the head, it's based on their heart and the fact that this is sort of that donald trump was blessed, that our country was blessed by god and that again, scares me. listen, we can be religious but we got to come to a point where facts are facts and if we're always basing something on p fantasy or feelings, it's all about the money and you talk about liz and listen to amanda what is happening as the cover for stop the steal. if we follow the money we'll see polling relates to money. she talked about marjorie taylor greene and matt gaetz. marjorie taylor greene raised $2.3 million and matt gaetz raises ahec heck of a lot of mo. this sablis about winning now. that's the threat. we don't have people that are public servants anymore. >> amanda, how do you think this ends?

>> it will be a long story. i talked to people figuring out what to do and where republicans fit in and do we have faction within the republican party and work moderate democrats and all of us that look at this say this isn't a one-year thing, not a two-year thing, this might be a generational thing. we have to create new things. if the republican party looks at liz cheney and matt gaetz and chooses matt gaetz. >> congressman wriggleman and amanda carpenter, thank you. next up, will rudy giuliani go to court to prevent them from accessing things in his apartment and office. he believes his items are protected by his former relationship with the president. that is coming up. alexa, tell roomba to vacuum in front of the couch. and offers personalized cleaning suggestions for a clean unique to you and your home. roomba and the irobot home app. only from irobot.

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acting as a legal advisor rather than a lawyer hopes the former president will join a court fight to block federal prosecutors from accessing p material seized during a raid. giuliani believes the seized items are protencted by client attorney privilege. ambassador eisen, you wrote in a new column in "usa today" and said this is all a red flag for trump and anyone else that followed his lead in playing

fast and loose with the law. haven't there been a lot of red flags before this? doesn't this seem different in a way? >> thanks for having me back. the -- i understand pokefolks w say well, we've been hearing about trump blowing through red flags for years but there is aca sense of acceleration around gho giuliani. the thing that is different is the president is no longer in office. there is no obstacle to his being prosecuted now, and i think both in this case there is potential exposure and as well as in other prosecutions going on in new york and new york d.a. fulton county, georgia. so i think president trump is going to be in increasing parol now that he's out of the white house. >> so in terms of attorney client privilege, what do you

make of what dershowitz is saying and rudy giuliani saying he hopes the former president goes to court and the former presidencying the material seized from him. >> anderson, that wouldn't work. the southern district of new york has heard many of these cases before including in the cohen case. there was an unsuccessful attempt there by mr. cohen in which president trump, then president trump joined to try to block the government from looking at the materials. the case law in new york is that the government can look at them. the court might or might not decide to appoint a special master but the privilege doesn't allow lawyers to participate in crimes and that is what the southern district of new york wants to look at was giuliani doing criminal activity and did it involve president trump?

they're possibly lacooking for that, as well. >> you were special counsel. how much do you believe a case with giuliani would over lap with what you heard during the impeachment trial? >> that's the million dollar question. that's probably one of the reasons that we had this extraordinary spectacle so rare of a raid on mr. giuliani's premises. the government is attempting to ascertain what other evidence mr. giuliani has about his own dealings with ukraine or possibly the president's. the impeachment was focused on president trump's shakedown of ukraine and we wrote in the impeachment report about the potential federal crimes, mail and wire fraud. giuliani we know was deeply involved in the president's dealings with ukraine and i think well find out is there any

evidence in these devices, electronics that the government seized tieing the president giuliani together. >> there are concerns about attorney client privilege but there is a system in place where these things have been seized and they are looked at by a separate team than the team doing the investigation of attorney client privilege, correct? >> that's right. it been done hundreds and hundreds of times around the country including in the southern district of new york, which has one of the hostmost ae high profile criminal dockets in the round and there isn't established procedure for doing this for protecting the privilege but some of the documents might turn out not to be privileged if they constitute evidence of the president, ex president and his lawyer working together on illegal activity if we've got to see what is on

there and we want to be cautious and not jump to conclusions. >> appreciate it. thanks. up next, breaking news on the protest of the shooting death of andrew brown junior and his friends and family gather for his funeral and his legal team continues to seek access to the body cam video. you'll hear from one of his attorneys benjamin crump next.

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breaking news from elizabeth city, north carolina, at least three people have been arrested in protest after the shooting of andrew brown junior. family and friends gathered at a church for his funeral. they continued to demand transparency and justice they say for brown who was shot 12 days ago by sheriff's deputies. body camera video from that day still hasn't been released to the public and it depicted an execution. benjamin crump family attorney spoke outside the church today. >> it doesn't make any sense why the taxpayers would pay all this money to have uniforms retro fitted for body cam video then when we need it most critically,

you say we're not going to release it. >> at the time of the shooting the arrest warrant brown was being served with was for possession of three grams of cocaine. joining me is the attorney we just heard from benjamin crump. mr. crump, we heard you at mr. br brown's funeral. what are you being told about when you and the family will be able to see the video? >> at this point, anderson, like reverend al sharpton said at his eulogy, it seems to be a share game. they are saying one brother can see the video footage from the four body cameras and just one member of our legal team whose barred in the state of south carolina however they show family members his other children, his sisters and brothers and is such a terrible game to play with this family after they shot him

unjustifiably in the back of his head. i believe if they want to try to be trusted, they need to be transparent but apparently, the district attorney does not want to be atrusted. >> what do you think the strategy is to limit the showing of to one family member, one attorney? >> you know, it seems to be that they're trying to figure out a way to sweep it under the rug but right now the whole world is watching elizabeth city, north carolina because we've seen all the objective evidence of the fact that his car hit a tree that is about 15 feet from where they literally shot a bullet in a neighbor's home and you're saying they're just shooting recklessly. i mean, and the video is going

to show that, anderson. why is it they continue to shoot black people from the back when we're going away from them? it's one of the most cowardly, not to mention, the most unjustifiable things you can do to a person. >> so if they're trying to limit the video to just one family member, one attorney, that certainly seems to indicate they have no intention at least of now of publicly releasing that video. >> exactly. and i keep saying that they're going to have to release it eventually and unless they tamper with the video, it's going to be seen. it not going to change so why won't they release the video of them killing andrew brown? what are you trying to hide? the truth will come out. a lie cannot live forever and that seems to be their issue, they want to perpetuate this

philosophy that they didn't do anything wrong. we know stevie wonder can see that they did something wrong because if they hadn't, they would have already released the video. >> so will you agree to have one family member and one attorney look at the video? >> well, regrettably, that's what the judge ruled and they also agreed in 30 to 45 days they will revisit the issue where you and the public can finally see the video. the longer they delay the release of the video, the more attention will be brought to this small town in north carolina where andrew brown is the latest black man who is executed by the police unjustifiably. >> cnn is reporting the brown family wants the local district attorney to recuse him from the case. why is that? >> because he has demonstrated that he seems to be bias that he does not stand for transparency

and accountability and so the family wants to have the north carolina attorney general take over the case george floyd and we're asking the department of justice to start a federal investigation into this matter. >> what is your reaction to the decision by the sheriff's office to return four of their deputies involved in the shooting to active duty? >> you know, it under scores the shell game and game of herchara to blur the officers faces to protect identity and return them back to work and release their identity. you know, they were never ever build trust with the communities of color if they continue to play these games when they kill us and our blood is splattered

on the street and they won't give the taxpayers the exact thing that they paid for, which is transparency when they have all of the police uniforms retro fitted with body cam videos. anderson, why would they not show us the videos that the taxpayers paid all this money for? >> benjamin crump, appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you, anderson. up next, an exclusive look how migrants risking lives and relying on human smugglers crossing the border getting into the u.s.

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tonight extraordinary footage from mexico, the city across the border from el paso, texas. matt rivers and his team met with and followed so-called human smugglers and captured the moment when they smuggled two migrants into the u.s. it's video rarely seen from this perspective, from the migrants' point of view. human smuggling is, of course, a crime. we wanted to document the process because it's part of the reality of every day. what can be lost in the numbers

is how many arrive here using smugglers. it can be a terribly dangerous journey hundreds of thousands of people are willing to take part in to come to the u.s. >> reporter: as long as there's been a border wall, people have tried to climb it, up from mexico, down to the u.s., hoping for something better on the other side. today one such attempt starts here in juarez, mexico. two men carry a makeshift ladder, lashing it to the side. these are human smugglers who are paid to help them get into the united states. today the smugglers told us to be in this neighborhood at a certain time. if they had migrants to cross they told us we could follow them but would not tell us when or where this would take place. after we arrived, though, we're told they would, indeed, try to cross two migrants currently in the back seat of the car.

the car takes off driving a stone's throw from the border wall in el paso, texas, on the other side. further up the road the car slows. and a minute later the trio heads toward the wall as we follow behind. this smuggler has never allowed cameras to trail him before. after months of repeated requests he agreed to have only myself and a local producer follow him only recording on our cell phones knowing our presence could increase his chances of getting caught. trying to cross the wall here is extremely dangerous. so right now they're just making their way slowly towards the wall. they're crawling, clearly trying to avoid being seen by anyone on the border, dragging the ladder to go up and over the wall this is a difficult track here, no question. it's slow progress on their hands and knees and further on they catch their breath, so we had about 30 seconds to talk with the migrants. they allowed cnn to record them only if we hid their identities, a young man and woman 18 and 20

years old originally from ecuador. they say they paid various smugglers thousands of dollars each to bring them to this point. they told us they're hoping to eventually find work in south texas. this is the last step of a journey tens of thousands of people make every year risking their lives and their freedom migrating to the u.s. with the help of smugglers. smugglers who are often accruesed of everything from sexual abuse to extortion, some taking advantage of the vulnerable my grants they purport to help. and some of those migrants are children, as record numbers of unaccompanied minors have been heading north many from central america. some make it to the u.s. and others get caught by mexican officials and end up in government-run shelters like this one. either way it's likely their families paid smugglers to bring them here. officials here say three-quarters of the kids here were smuggled, a horrifically

dangerous trip. the shelter's psychologist says they can be raped, robbed, they can be extorted, they can die on the journey. this 14-year-old girl says she was smuggled from guatemala and that along the journey passed from smuggler to smuggler, the threat of rape was always there. at times crowded into a van with many, she felt like she couldn't get enough air. we couldn't make any noise, she says. they would only open up the windows for a bit and close them. it felt like you were choking. human smuggling is often run by loosely organized groups but sometimes and especially in mexico experts say there is a big role played by organized crime. the core tells that operate so freely here, smugglers bringing people north either work directly for the cartels or independently but have to pay for the right to move through certain territories. >> i would venture to guess it's

approaching a billion dollar industry. >> reporter: former border patrol el paso sector chief manjarrez says some have used that to create smuggling networks. >> and it's almost like a fortune 500 company dealing with a supply chain. >> reporter: at the very end of that chain smugglers like these that we would follow to the wall say they work for an armed wing of the cartel. the cartel is paid roughly $2,000, a staggering some for most migrants that often leaves them penniless. we try to help them, we support them, he says. but this isn't some selfless act. they get paid for this and they are part of a system where rape, extortion, kidnapping and even murder are rampant. we don't do that, he says.

we're all humans. they want to arrive safely. we don't harm them. we give them food and water and help them cross. other people may hurt them but we don't. we, of course, have no way to know if he's telling the truth, but he says for him this is a family affair. he works with his brother and even his 14-year-old nephew. they all smuggle people. the 14-year-old shows me one of the ladders they use. though when he crosses kids over the wall, some his own age or even younger, he does it another way. he says i tie a thick rope around their bellies and lower them down so they don't fall. his uncle says without them two migrants like the ones we followed through the desert who want to get to the u.s., wouldn't be able to. we watch as they hook their ladder over the border wall fence. the young man goes first. once he's down, he runs.

and the young woman then follows. once up and over, she hits the ground and races off as well. we can't watch where she goes because the smuggler tells us we've got to go. we have to run back from the fence obviously because the smuggler was afraid of getting caught. but for him it was a successful mission. but for the two people that just crossed, their journey is far from over. it's mainly desert on that side of the wall and they didn't really seem to have a plan. the smuggler told us he had no idea what happened to them after they went over. those two migrants managed to get in, but for many, that's not the case. a few days later we were filming something else on the border when we noticed something. more people desperate to cross, a woman and three young children make a break for the wall. here, though, the actual border

is just the rio grande, more of a stream really. one by one, holding hands, they make their way. and once they've crossed, they're in the u.s. but then comes the wall. a towering steel presence between them and where they want to be. border patrol detain them a few minute later. >> do we know what role be if any, mexican authorities are playing in this kind of smuggling? >> reporter: anderson, the first time we tried to go to the smugglers' house to interview them, we weren't able to because outside were three different law enforcement vehicles from a couple different kinds of police and the country's national guard. the smugglers told us they had arrived at that point to collect what they call their semiregular bribe of roughly $2,500 and they let the smugglers do what they want to do. all the agencies involved said bribery is unacceptable, but corruption continues to be a problem in mexico, it's been a problem for decades, and there's

little to no doubt that in some way the state is at least looking the other way when it comes to the facilitating smuggling like this in mexico. >> appreciate the report, thank you. the news continues. let's hand it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." welcome to "prime time." here is the reality, the two-party system is a challenge for our democracy and there is a real discussion to be had whether it's time to change it so that the full complement of beliefs and people who want them can be empowered in our elective bodies. but that's not where we are right now. right now we have a catastrophe on our hands because it takes two to tan dgo in our system. one party has become consumed by its fringe, by extreme notions of division. we are in such a sad state, that i bet you both parties right now think i must be referring to the other. but for all the flaws of the