way the state is at least looking the other way when it comes to the facilitating smuggling like this in mexico. >> appreciate the report, thank you. the news continues. let's hand it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." welcome to "prime time." here is the reality, the two-party system is a challenge for our democracy and there is a real discussion to be had whether it's time to change it so that the full complement of beliefs and people who want them can be empowered in our elective bodies. but that's not where we are right now. right now we have a catastrophe on our hands because it takes two to tan dgo in our system. one party has become consumed by its fringe, by extreme notions of division. we are in such a sad state, that i bet you both parties right now think i must be referring to the other. but for all the flaws of the

policies and people that populate the democrats or really the left it is the grand old party that is at war with itself. a war that is affecting everyone and everything in this country. we can't be a cult of personality warns the number three in the house gop. liz cheney. but she knows her party is just and only that now. either you are for trump and pledge to oppose the reality that he lost and oppose all efforts to work with anyone who says he did or else. cheney is one of the only to dabble with all else. she called bs on donald trump again today as he tries to repitch the big lie. cheney, at an earlier event today, said we can't rebuild the party or the conservative movement on a foundation of lies. we can't be a cult of

personality. we can't white wash what happened on january 6th or perpetuate trump's big lie. it is a threat to democracy. what he did on january 6th is a line that can't be crossed. now all of that until the last point is a fact. it's all a fact. it all happened. it's all real. the problem is her party accepts fiction. 70% of her party believes biden did not win rightfully. that's from the latest cnn poll. as a result the leadership has decided to work only on one type of reform, not immigration, not health care, not infrastructure. the reform is reforming the reality of the act of terrorism

that we all saw in the insurrection of the u.s. capitol on january 6th. listen -- >> the president bears responsibility for wednesday's attack on congress by mob rioters. he should have immediately denounced the mob. >> i was the first person to contact him when the riots were going on. he said he'll put something out to make sure to stop this. and that's what he did. >> he's a liar. this is the guy that told people that he beg trump to call off his dogs on the 6th, and that when trump started messing with him, guess they care more about it than you do, they got into a cursing contest. now he sees it differently. why? he's afraid. so now he sees cheney as more of a problem than the insurrection. listen. >> this republican party is a very big tent.

everyone is invited in. >> is cheney still a good fit for your leadership team do you believe? >> that's a question for the conference. >> a question for the conference. you are the conference. what happened to the big tent? everybody's invited. not anymore. it is a party of one, trump. this is not debatable. the only thing that's debatable is what happens as a result. trump knows this. he knows the party is weak, and he is doing what any good invader does. and be clear, this man is no conservative, okay. he is invading conservatism and doing it brilliantly and effectively. so what does he do, trump? he goes at cheney as more proof of what happens if you oppose his lies. he canceled her. she's a warmonger who will never run again in wyoming. but see this as two pieces. you'll never run again.

that's the consequence. that's why mccarthy lies. but it's also something else. what's the other piece? it's a shot at her father former vice president cheney who, by the way, was a warmonger. but why is he saying it? truth? never. it's trump's attempt to destroy the past players of the party. you see, he wants to destroy what was seen as the culture of gop. make it all bad, all wrong. there is no past. the only reality is the present and that is me. and he is winning within the ranks. the past of the gop has been rendered poison and the most poisonous those who dare to question his trumpness like senator mitt romney. >> now you know me as a person who says what he thinks, and i don't hide the fact that i wasn't a fan of our last president's character issues.

and i'm also no fan -- aren't you embarrassed? >> nope. there is no shame in their game. you see, that is the upside of anger. this is not about balance. romney was the republican party's nominee in 2012. now he's called a traitor and booed at his party's state convention because he's changed? no. because they've changed. and he won't back the guy who incited an insurrection, but they wanted the insurrection because they saw it as an act of pate rriotism because they were told and choose to believe that they are under attack and romney can smile up on that stage but

he feels the teeth. he won't even come on this show to talk about it. think about what that means. so what is winning? trump. not just trump. trump-ism. this. a qanon kook, all that crazy q stuff. she wanted to start a white nationalism caucus. someone talked her out of it. it's only leaders from the past now who are willing to call out the obvious and odious. remember this guy? >> to me that basically says that we want to be extinct. but i know this, that if the republican party stands for exclusivity, it used to be country clubs, now it's white anglo-saxon protestantism. then it's not going to win

anything. >> or is he wrong? will this new nativism lead to a return to power? can trump conquer conservatism by destroying the people and principles of the party's past and replacing them with something simple? it is us or it is them. and only i can see. mr. mick mick ail, i believe we already know the answer. you don't win in that party if you are not on the side of what trump believes in and really is just an echo of a lot of different quarters of anymous. >> i share much of what you just offered. i'll go a step further. this may be politically speaking, because it's totally untethered to reality.

it might be brilliant for trump. he now has 75% of republicans lock step on this issue. very hard to run at him or the perspective it primaries, so it secures his short-term position. now fast forward to the mid-term election. you know historically what happens, chris, the party outside of the white house typically picks up -- they only need, what, half a dozen seats in the house of representatives? so maybe when the midterm is over republicans are back in control of the house of representatives, and who is going to be standing there claiming all credit? donald trump. the only opportunity to dislodge him as the head of the republican party is if the gop gets shellacked in the midterm.

>> when by all lights he should have had a second term. he brought the vaccine there. he probably would have beaten biden. democrats were reluctantly in that camp. it meant nothing to his fate. he is the teflon don. but here is my question. what does it mean for conservatism if this continues -- if nativism replaces conservatism? what happens? >> well, they can splinter. the romney, the liz cheney, the adam kinsinger. there's only a handful of them but they're just going to have a piece of the gop. maybe it's enough to deny what's left of the republican party victory, but i doubt it. and here is something else i want to say. what i'm about to say i think applies to many people who are in our business, but i don't think it applies to either of us. i don't think they mean what they say.

and the proof of this is that 139 republicans in the house, just a couple of months ago, c challenged the election result with the base and the world watching. when they were behind closed doors and the vote was on liz cheney, all of a sudden the 139 became 61. it was an eanonymous vote. nobody knew. you can't have it both ways, chris. either you believe the election was rigged and, therefore, you want cheney out because, after all, theeshe voted to impeach. that's not the way the two votes were tallied. when the base isn't watching, i'll bet they tell the truth. i'll bet in the cloakroom what they're really saying is, my god, i wish i could say what liz cheney is saying except i would get primaried. >> they all say that to us. michael, you know it and i know it. i've had phone calls, and i'll never go bad on them. i do not burn sources. i want to know where people's

heads and hearts are. i get frustrated. don't tell me this now or tell me i'm lying, but that's the reality and i'd rather have the counsel than not. they've already answered the question. and now, i don't understand why this doesn't translate into everybody's mind-set, why does anybody believe the gop will work with biden on anything? it is a death blow for them if they work with him. why don't the democrats and everybody understand this? >> well, and it's all about the cultural divide issues, right? here is an amazing thing. the republican party, in which i cut my teeth in the '80s, the reagan era, this would have been all about $6 trillion being spent. it would have been all about the size of the debt. nobody even talks about that anymore. why? i guess it doesn't drive the base. you know what drives the base? the border drives the base. you know what drives the base?

the whole trans issue in sports drives the base. and what it tells me overall, it's all about self-preservation. it's not about getting anything done. it's simply about keeping your gig in washington. >> it used to be. back then it would have been here is what i want to do and then you have the fight over cost. now you start with price tag politics, right? so biden has to put out a big number because the best he's ever going to get is the number because it's never going to happen. so he might as well say $16 trillion because you're not going to get anything done because you're not going to blow up the filibuster. you don't have the resolve in your ranks. i have to tell you something, i know people aren't going to like this, manchin is right. i don't like the filibuster. yes, it came out of jim crow. i don't believe it's been used for anything other than to forestall the obvious and the founders didn't want it. that's my case. the practicality is manchin is

right because they will get the senate back and we both know what happens when they do. mcconnell will still be there and he will bring down a reckoning of epic proportion. and he will get things done because they will be in line, and that's why manchin's right. the democrats don't have it within themselves to fight the kind of fight you need to fight if you get rid of the filibuster, fair or did i misread? >> no, you're right. i'll go a step further. imagine if there were five manchins and not one. total power in the senate would be controlled by an independent mind-set. >> michael smerconnish, thank you for friday, thank you for the upgrade, and thank you. >> thank you for the honor. >> by the way, i'm not casting it as an aspersion, i'm not here

to judge whether or not that's good to get in line with one man's view of what the country should be. that's for you guys to figure it out, but that's what it is. so don't tell me that it's inaccurate. don't tell me you're just insulting. that's what they are. now they have to make a choice, and they have already. don't you see, they want congress lie about the election, win congress. why? stoke fear. stoke animous. don't they lie to you about everything on the left? they do. it's a good point. that's what's happening. or am i wrong? what is the other outcome? let's put it to two gop veterans from one of the most important swing states next.

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why is this happening on the right? simple. it's the math, stupid. right? to paraphrase jim carville. the math tells you lie, deny, create division and you win. a quarter of the party doesn't want to accept the truth. and, look, i don't mo what to call the party. we'll talk about it with our two guests. a minority of this party believes that and a minority believes trump is to blame at all for the capitol riot. and that is why we're seeing this new strategy. carve away from diversity. make it about us and them. we have to talk about where this goes. i will accept the arguments. i will not argue the false premise for it. i want to bring in former

republican legislators charlie dent and rick santorum. first, this is the piece of sound that i need to talk to you about, right here. >> if you think about this country, i don't know any other country in the world that was settled predominantly by people coming to practice their faith. they came here because they were not allowed to practice their particular faith in their own country and came here from europe and set up a country based on judeo-christian principles. if you think of italy and greece and china and turkey and places like that, they've all sort of changed over time. i mean, they've been there for millennia in many cases. and their culture has sort of evolved over time but not us. we came here and created a blank slate. we birthed a nation from

nothing. there was nothing here. yes, we have native americans, but, candidly, there isn't much native american culture in american culture. >> rick, two problems. one, it's not accurate. there is a lot of affect from the native culture on america -- >> absolutely. >> and there are a lot of people here who believe in that. and it seemed like you were trying to erase diversity in the interest of some white christian right. >> no, no, no, no. just to be clear, what i was not saying is that native american culture -- i misspoke. what i was talking about is, as you can see from the run-up, i was talking about the founding of our country. i had given a long talk about the constitution, the declaration of independence, and the idea behind those and i was saying we sort of created that anew, if you will. and i was not trying to dismiss native americans. in fact, i mentioned them because, yes, they were here and

did have an impact. they have a huge impact particularly in the west and many other areas of the country. i was talking about and i misspoke, the founding and the principles embodied in the founding. i would never -- and people said i'm trying to dismiss what we did, far from it. the way we treated fative americans was horrific. as a leader in the congress, i believe, as our founding document says that we are endowed with inalienable rights, that's when every country gets into problems. we did it with the native americans, with respect to african-americans. i believe we're doing it with children in the woman today. this is very personal and passionate. i wasn't saying any of the

things the social media world is saying that i was saying, i was talking about the founding documents of the united states, not the colonies, but the united states was based on these principles of freedom of conscious, religious of liberty and the importance of that as a building block to the american dream. >> i think it's instructive of the conversation we're going to have about your party. why are people pissed off? it seems to be the continuation of a trend, not with you but the newest manifestation of your party, of beating up the little guy and making them seem as less than. forget the natives. you have done this with homosexuality, same-sex marriage, minorities. and it seems like this is party of your party now, that there's something wrong with these black people, that's why bad trouble happens. there's something wrong with these gay people. they're not us. they're not us. we started this country.

who is why? you're like me, you're a mutt who came here a couple of generations ago, rick. you ain't no pilgrim. so the point is this is a continuation of an us and a them and the them are the native americans, the black americans, the gay americans, they're all others. they're not us white christian types. but the white christian types aren't even white christian types. do you see why it makes people so scared and so hurt? >> all i can say is if you listened to what i said before your question, the beautiful thing about the imperfect people that put together our founding documents, they put together a pretty per seeing, all men are created equal and endowed by a creator with rights. as i said before we get into trouble in this country, and i agree there are people who look at people as other. look at people as less than. >> your party is led by one right now.

>> all i can say is i have rejected that. >> you won't even say his name and say that you reject that about him. you won't even say it, by the way. >> i'd be happy to say i reject the way donald trump has phrased others in some of his rhetoric. the point is i don't think we want to conflate disagreements about public policy issues which have a whole lot of other ramifications and how we treat people as individuals. i think if we can disagree with them on important issues like abortion or like marriage and not just because i disagree with someone on the issue of marriage doesn't mean i dislike them. >> i agree. >> that's what i get accused of, and it's wrong. >> a little bit is context. you ask for it with what you say and who you choose to carve out in terms of who you find acceptable and don't. i wanted to give you a chance to explain yourself. i'm going to test you on it because i don't like where it's

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let's bring in charlie dent with rick santorum. here is the proposition. rick is getting beaten up and saying give me context, i didn't mean it that way. you guys are about us versus them. and lying about anything that doesn't suit you. you won't say trump's word. i had to come at rick three times to get him to say it, and he has no reason not to say it. but mccarthy does and scalise does and mcconnell does, and that's why they all shut up and do what they have to do even if he says there was no

insurrection, even if he says the election was wrong, even if he makes blacks sound like savages, coming for your neighborhood like cory booker. and you have a qanon lady. what does that tell you about your party? >> the party is in a terrible place and it's badly fractured. some of the republican leaders in the house want to tell us they're all unified and happy. the nrcc raised $33 billion. those are big numbers. and so they don't want to do anything that would disrupt their ability to monetize this current movement. if they find it easier and politically safer to attack the woman, liz cheney, who is telling the truth rather than condemn the man, the former president, donald trump, who continues to perpetuate this lie that somehow he won the election and it was all stolen from him, it was nonsense, it was destructive. this is horrible for a party. i've been saying, chris, since i

was in congress, that too many people in our party, you know, the litmus test is about loyalty to a man. it's not about any governing principles or ideals anymore. there are a bunch of us working to establish these ideas and principles which will be released in the not too distant future but we're in a bad place and everybody knows it. >> what do you think happened to mitt romney, rick? isn't that like the ultimate sign that it's over? in utah of all places. >> well, what happened to mitt romney was because -- it was obviously because of what he did with trump and the impeachment vote but a whole host of other things he's been doing breaking away from conservative orthodoxy in the senate. the conservatives in utah were never for mitt romney. he wasn't their choice. a convention usually dominated by conservatives, i'm not surprised he would get that reaction. >> what do you think he did that rejects conservatism?

>> i can give you a long laundry list. >> just one. >> health care. >> how so? >> he continues to -- he was the architect of romney-care which became the template for obamacare and he's continued to not be a strong conservative on health care for a long, long time. that's one area. >> hold on. i'll take your example because i think it's relevant. charlie, this is new thinking. one, romney was your nominee in 2012, which means the party as a majority, accepted what he wanted. this notion that conservatives don't want everybody to have health care and conservatives don't think health care should be affordable -- >> that's not what i said, chris. >> i know it's not what you said, but you argued against romney's plan and that was his plan. >> it was a government solution not a market solution. >> there's no such thing as a

market solution. >> mitt romney was not censured or rebuke for any ideological transgression but because he voted to impeached donald trump. this has nothing to do with ideology. you think people who pledge fidelity to ideology would be standing up and defending mitt romney right now but that's the sad state of the party right now. we had the republican purity police. oh, he's calling people rhinos if they were not pure enough. here comes donald trump. on trade and other issues because it was in their political interests to stay close with him.

>> i agree with you there are many in this party and i think it's sad there were many in the party that have a cult of personality attraction to donald trump and they get a lot of play. the vast majority in the house and senate don't have that personal connection to donald trump, but they are very very much afraid about what will happen here in the next couple of years if republicans don't get control of the house of representatives in 2022 and what they don't want is a civil war where donald trump is splitting off and running candidates in every single election, dividing republicans and causing a victory for the democrats in 2022 which they think the consequences politically and for the future of the country are dire. are they sitting on their tongues and not going after donald trump? what they're trying to do is what ken mccarthy and the leadership do, try to hold the party together and so we can

stop this march toward socialism that joe biden has put us on. >> hold on. charlie, let me give you the last point here. i say you've dived on the blade and are now the party of islam and christianity. it's out to hate us. and these black people, you'd better be careful because you see they're coming. that's who you are. you have a qanon person in your ranks who is safer than your number three because she's saying things -- you can shake your head, rick. you're playing the same game. that's why all the circumstances -- when you said that thing about the native americans. why are they loving you up? >> that's not fair, chris. >> why are they loving you up about going bad on native americans? >> the same reason they light you up on the other side, they hate you. people on the right hate you. people on the left hate me. anytime they can take something out of context and go after me, they do. you know this.

>> why are the people on the right loving this -- >> it's a blood sport. >> i'm not a victim. why are the people on the right celebrating you? he should say that. we are white and christian. we have to get back to that. rick is right. why are they loving you up? >> by the way, that's not what i said. >> it's not how it came across that way. >> but that's not -- no, it didn't. if you looked at the whole speech i was talking to a group of young people about the founding of the country and the importance of religious liberty in the country. it was all about the founders. >> and you missed those who were marginalized and brutalized. >> i did not dismiss them -- i talked about -- what was the contribution to the founding? i guess the question is if you want to make your case that native americans had a huge impact on the founding -- >> the story you tell, they saved your thanksgiving. they kept you alive. >> i'm asking you, chris, if you

want to go out and make the case, please do. i'd love to hear it. >> i don't want to make the case. you don't make it sound like anybody who is not some white anglo-saxon protestant is a problem. >> wrong, chris. i'm talking about the facts of what happened. that's all i'm trying to describe. what happened. i'm just trying to say -- of course there is and i didn't say that. i'm talking about the two founding documents. >> i understand that but it didn't come across that way and you understand why and you have a list of things. >> i understand. they took it out of context. >> charlie, the last point to you. go ahead. i'm being as fair as i can. >> the gop must reject the nativism, denialism, the ugly cronyism that we've experienced

the last four years. these are not attributes of a great party or a great country. we have to embrace the diversity of this country and reach out to it and get people to vote for us not to retreat and say guys like me. we can't win by this type -- it's an identity politics. >> i couldn't agree more. i agree. >> and we've had nativism from day one. >> we were not always treated well by the english who were before them and every other group has been mistreated but we shouldn't embrace it or encourage that ugliness we've had in our country. that's where we have to get beyond this. >> the faster your party will figure out its problem. if that were being said in the actions and sentences that were to follow you would be in better

shape. to be very clear, this is personal for me. and it has nothing to do with -- now that i'm vaccinated. for people like me we're a couple generations removed in the other category. you should stop anything you do to suggest that it's still more trouble. it is personal to me and should be personal to all of us. i respect you both for taking the opportunity. first up is this french onion dip. i'm going to start the bidding at $5. thank you, sir. $6 over there! going once. going twice. sold!

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reality, we're not going to reach herd immunity. a third of us have been fully vaccinated, the older population, which is probably saving us. daily vaccination rates are dropping and they'll continue to. it's been politicized but it's raising concerns among experts that not only won't we get to herd immunity but what it will mean down the road that we didn't. dr. jha, i do not mean to be a wet blanket, but once the politics have come into play, you have fox news 24/7, they're trying to take your choice, it's your body. it's amazing, they sound like

they're reproductive rights advocates. what does it mean? >> yes, chris, thanks for having me on. first of all, look, whether we get to herd immunity is up to us. if i think people are willing to roll up their sleeves and get vaccinated we will get to herd immunity. i'm more optimistic than others out there. second, if we keep vaccinating, right now we're at about 55% of adults vaccinated. keep going, get up into the 70s. it'll make a massive difference. case numbers will plummet. we'll see little outbreaks here and there, but life will begin to really get back to normal. >> but what if you don't? what if you get just a little bit beyond where we are right now? >> that's a problem. we have 50,000 cases happening. those numbers will come down a bit more. we'll be stuck dealing with this for a long time. failure is not an option. we have to figure out what is holding people back.

some is hesitancy and politicalization. some it's still a pain to get a vaccine. >> some of it is. you don't get enough of a boost for having the vaccine. you don't get enough of an upside. >> we have to do a better job communicating on that. it's massive the upside. you're protected. you can start going back and living your life in a different way once you're vaccinated. that message has not gotten across clearly. >> you still have to wear a mask. you don't get to do things and go places, there's no preference for you being vaccinated. >> look, you don't have to wear a mask when you're outside, if you're fully vaccinated. pretty soon the case numbers will come down and you'll see mandates pull back for vaccinated people. it's just safer. you can be around people who are chronically ill and they're vaccinated and you're vaccinated. we have to do a good job of communicating. >> how bad can it get if people don't get vaccinated and they say you're not vaccinating my

kids, all the sicience says they're fine and they're going back to school. >> if we just don't vaccinate, we get big outbreaks, more variants which, of course, can pose their own problems. we'll have problems with people getting sick, hospitalizations. it will be hard to do the large gatherings, indoor concerts, outdoor baseball games. stuff will get much harder if we do not make more progress. >> you think things get worse or they just stay bad longer? >> he they stay bad longer. we have a lot of progress built in. obviously new variants can change. assuming there isn't a curveball like that they just stay bad longer. >> you know why i asked the distinction, apropos of the conversation about politics, i don't think people care enough. i took care of me and mine. i feel good about me and mine. people are going to get sick. life is hard. sur

surrendering the me to the we but not in the ways we needed to really beat this, and now we'll be watching what the effects are of our own choices. you've been straight with us and made a miracle happen up at brown university by doing the right things and everybody can study it and learn what you did and how well it worked. thanks for being with us. >> thanks, chris. >> us versus them. us and them. the worst disease we've faced. proof of it today, another funeral, another black man killed by north carolina deputies this time, by police. andrew brown's family, they want answers. now we've made them the proxies for the rest of us. only they get to see the video. they have to make the case to the rest of the country about what happened. does that sound right? we don't get to see the footage. that you don't have any interest in it unless somebody says you do. north carolina's attorney general next. approved fda combination of advil plus acetaminophen.

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so ditch the old way of selling your car, and say hello to the new way at carvana. protesters are still marching and demanding justice which really is now the fairness of transparency. hours after brown's family and friends gathered for his funeral. they were back out on the streets. josh stein is here. >> this was an easy pass in the legislature, 48-2. it reversed the transparency requirements from suggesting that things are seen as being

presumptively of the public interests and making the public have to fight for transparency. why was it an easy pass? >> today andrew brown jr. was laid to rest. he was a father, nephew and friend and anybody to many. at the service, family members of eric garner and daunte wright and george floyd, they all spoke. we must do better. one way we can do better is having more accountability. north carolina law was changed in 2016 and it declared that body cam footage is not a public record.

that's backwards. the whole reason we have body and dashcam, so we need to change north carolina's law and swicht so it is a public record and if there is some valid investigation way footage is delayed, put it on law enforcement to get that hold and not put it on the people. >> they're leaking what they want people to know by suggesting about andrew brown jr. they did it in the beginning and the sheriff came out and said this guy got a history of resisting arrest. anything they thought of prejudicing the case, they filled that vacuum with their own words. the governor had said he wanted the body cam video to come out then the case was removed from the locals to the state and yet there has been no action on

transparency. can you sue mr. attorney general and say this law is unconstitutional and it has to change now. can you sue? >> the case was not taken away from the local. the local will perform the investigation which is a good thing. we want to have independent investigations. we don't want the sheriff's office investigating itself. he also invited in an outside sheriff's office to ensure local policies are compliant with internal affairs investigations. i don't have the authority to sue on this matter and north carolina, the authority to prosecute these cases are left with the local district attorney, not the state. the case is not referred to my office. there are bills in the

legislature that had been found to do just that. >> i appreciate you clarifying where the case is and saying what i hope should be obvious to everybody including your governor. he said he wanted out, why does he not say it everyday? that's a question for him. >> mr. stein, thank you for being with us. we'll be right back. trength. so here's to the strong, who trust in our performance and comfortable long-lasting protection. because your strength is supported by ours. depend. the only thing stronger than us, is you.

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any virus we'll ever face. us and then. i has not been done right since its inception but it is always an experiment and always been getting better. we recommit to the idea of getting better or will we be doomed getting yourselves get worse. thank you for watching "cnn tonight," the big show is right now with d. lemon. >> i can't believe the first word out of his mouth were i am sorry, i said something ignorant. i need to learn of the history of this country. no contrition, didn't talk about the suffering that native americans have had to deal with in this country. it was -- eririck