tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN May 14, 2021 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
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the surprise news from the cdc, thursday, that masks are no longer necessary in most cases for those fully vaccinated was certainly greeted with great euphoria today. that sense of joy and relief has turned to confusion, even fear for some. america waited for guidance. more than 585,000 americans have died with physical and psychological scars that may never heal for many. but with cases and fatalities plummeting, this once hope for guidance has spread some concerns of its own now. it depends on something that can sometimes seem in short supply, trust. there is no enforcement mechanism, of course. no proof of vaccination requirement. someone will check. instead, we are a nation of about 330 million people now on the honor system. currently, only about 36% of the population are fully vaccinated. meaning, most people, still, need to wear a mask. nothing has actually changed for them, or it shouldn't have. to make matters even more complicated, this is just national guidelines. the -- the -- or guidance, i should say. the rules are set by states and
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localities, and those rules differ, from state to state, even city to city. minnesota, for instance, has dropped its mask mandate. however, its largest city, minneapolis, is still under one. and then, how to balance this new guidance with the fact most children are unvaccinated and only those who are 12 are eligible for a vaccination. most retailers still requiring masks. however, others, like trader joe's, and walmart today said the fully vaccinated don't need them but that brings us back to the question, how do we know who is fully vaccinated? and who is to check? as dr. anthony fauci admitted to cnn yesterday, quote, i think there is going to a pushback against questioning somebody when they walk in. undoubtedly, a step forward. but it's, also, a confusing time as well. that's why last night on this broadcast, we wanted to spend some time answering your questions about guidance on masks. dr. paul offit, director of the vaccine education center at the children's hospital of philadelphia. and dr. ashish jha, dean of
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brown university school of public health. dr. jha, we're learning more tonight about how the cdc came to this decision. the cdc director, rochelle walensky, says it was new data from a study on health-care workers that showed two doses of the pfizer and moderna vaccines provided 94% protection for frontline workers. has the cdc got it right here? i mean, has there been enough real-world data for vaccinated people to go maskless? >> yeah. so, anderson, thanks for having me on. the short answer is, yes, the cdc's gotten the data right. it's gotten the science right. there is enough evidence that, if you are fully vaccinated, you are safe outdoors and indoors without wearing a mask. the challenge, of course, is how we implement that, in a way that is workable across america. >> dr. offit, what are you going to do? i mean, have you gone maskless? >> i go maskless outside. but when i went to the grocery store this afternoon, and i -- probably 50, 60 people in the grocery store, about half of
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whom weren't wearing a mask. i would have to have assumed that all those people were vaccinated which, i think, is a huge assumption. so i chose to wear a mask. i think that we are asking a lot of citizens. if -- if -- in the perfect world, people who -- who -- who are vaccinated don't have to wear a mask inside, as long as those who are unvaccinated wear a mask. and i think that is a lot to ask and it's certainly going to be impossible to assure. >> dr. jha, because of this new guidance, do you think covid cases may rise in areas of the country where there are people -- fewer people vaccinated? >> yeah, i actually worry about that, anderson. this is why i don't think that this new-cdc guidance should translate, into lifting of all-indoor mask mandates. particularly, in places with high-infection rates and low-vaccination rates, for exactly that reason. we might, very well, see a spike in cases. >> and dr. jha, we got a number of questions from viewers. liz asked does it seem like this can be temporary? when a new variant comes around, we might need to backtrack on the new guidance. is that likely? >> yeah. i think -- i think that's
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unlikely. new variants may come around. some of them may be more contagious. but i think our vaccines are really going to hold up. so i remain pretty confident, at this moment, that fully-vaccinated people will be able to continue to be maskless, both, outdoors and indoors. >> dr. offit, in utah, the governor has said the state won't mandate masks to be worn in k-through-12 schools. in south carolina, the governor says schools cannot have a mask mandate. liz elizabeth has a question. what about teachers? should we still mask -- mafb mask up in the classroom? what are the risks for fully-vaccinated teachers in a room full of unmasked children? and could i transmit the virus to my unvaccinated 7-year-old? >> i wish those states had held on for a few more weeks left in the school year. but in any case, who certainly can get this infection. roughly 24% of the infections currently in the united states are in children. i guess, were i a teacher, i
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would choose to wear a mask. >> but even if that teacher has been vaccinated? >> yes. and i think the reason -- first of all, no vaccine's 100% effect i have. when you say 94%, that's not a hundred percent. some of these variants, not -- not so much the b.1.1.7 variant, uk variant, but other variants like the south african variant or brazilian variant are somewhat resistant to immunity induced by vaccine. so you are less likely to be protected against mild or moderate disease. i would wear a mask, in that situation. >> dr. jha, somebody's been vaccinated even if they do get infected and have what -- what's termed a mild case. there are a lot of people who had mild cases of covid, who have long-haul symptoms. is that, still, a concern for people who have been vaccinated? i asked this question last night but i'm still unclear on it. >> well, you're unclear because we don't know, anderson. we think that, if you have been fully vaccinated, you have a breakthrough infection, it'll be mild. it usually is. people do fine.
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we have not seen cases of long-haul covid, long covid, from people who had breakthrough infections. but we don't have that much experience. we haven't had that many people with breakthrough infections, yet, thank goodness. we are going to learn more. my guess is we won't but we definitely do not know for sure. >> jessica asks what about when vaccine protection starts to decline and we need booster shots? that's different for all of us. if we can unmask, when do we know when we will need the booster shot to continue to stay unmasked? we should note, the vaccine is good for at least six months, we're told. >> yeah. that's the key thing is at least six months. i think vaccines are going to last longer than that. we are going to be tracking this closely. we are going to just be monitoring, both, looking for -- basically, how well is our immune system holding up? and then, looking for more breakthrough infections. my guess, anderson, is that we are not going to need a booster this year. most people are not, at some point in 2022, we will. but we are going to have to let the science drive there that. >> dr. offit, along the same
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lines, donna asks i am fully vaccinated. we are still not sure how long immunity lasts. how often should i get an antibody test done? should people be getting antibody tests after they have been vaccinated to monitor how much protection they have? >> no, because they'd be getting the wrong antibody test. the antibody tests that are commercially available. what you really want to know is the level of virus, neutralizing antibodies, which is not easily obtained. so i guess i wouldn't drive myself crazy with that. but as dr. jha alluded to this, i think we are going to learn just how long immunity lasts and then find out what to extent we need boosters. >> for families who maybe plan to get their 12 to 15-year-old vaccinated this weekend, who's your advice for parents when it comes to potential-side effects for the vaccine? are there over-the-counter medications? you know, they're okay, that should be given? >> i think you can assume there is going to be side effects, much as there were for adults, younger adults, where you can have fever, headache, muscle pain, joint -- joint pain and
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fatigue. you know, there -- there were a couple studies done looking at people who -- who, right before they got the vaccine, received either anti-fever medicines or anti-inflammatory medicine, which have the potential of lowering the immune response. i think once you have already developed symptoms, it's unclear whether or not giving anti-fever medicines or anti-inflammatory medicines would affect that immune response. my feeling about the things is if you can avoid those medicines, avoid them. and see if you can get through the couple days during which these symptoms will last. >> dr. jha, do you think this lifting of the -- the mask mandate, essentially, by the cdc or at least them recommending that -- that it be lifted in -- in -- in places or saying it can be. does that -- i mean, does it encourage vaccinations? or do you worry that it's actually going to make people who haven't been vaccinated feel like, okay, it's over. why do i even need to be vaccinated? >> yeah. so, i -- i hope it encourages vaccinations, obviously. there will be some people, who
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are certainly not going to be persuaded by this. but there are other people who, i think, will hopefully look at the data and say, wow, if you are fully vaccinated, you can go maskless and be safe. that's the key issue, right? anybody can go without a mask, if you have lifted the mask mandate. but you're not safe. you are going to get -- there is a high risk you can get infected and you might get sick. so i am hoping that people will look at the data. and really, realize that for them to be safe, indoors, without a mask, they really should be fully vaccinated. >> dr. offit, you can make the argument, i guess, that it's actually even more urgent that people get vaccinated now, if you haven't already been vaccinated. because now, there is going to be an awful lot of people running around who you are not going to be able to tell whether or not they have been vaccinated. and they're -- may not have masks on and so, there is a good chance you can get infected. >> yeah. what are we waiting for? i mean, we have a pandemic that has brought us to our knees. cost massive joblessness, homelessness, food insecurity, increase in child abuse and domestic abuse. people have lost their jobs. this is a get-out-of-jail-free
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card. i mean, this vaccine works about as well as you could ever expect a vaccine to work. it's safe. it's been given out to almost 200 million doses have been given. it doesn't even cause rare-side effect, these mrna vaccines. get vaccinated. >> dr. paul offit, dr. ashish jha, thank you very much. still to come. congresswoman marjorie taylor greene's confrontation with alexandria ocasio-cortez. later, legal troubles mounting for congressman matt gaetz. former federal prosecutor joins us to discuss the deal the close confidante made and why it may mean more legal problems for gaetz. acetaminophen blocks it. advil dual action. fast pain relief that lasts 8 hours. that's why at america's beverage companies, our bottles are made to be re-made.
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every day in business is a big day. we'll keep you ready for what's next. comcast business powering possibilities. today, congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez spoke to reporters about the aggressive and unprovoked confrontation she had wednesday with georgia republican congresswoman marjorie taylor greene, who has a history of these kind of unhinged moments.
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>> this is a woman that's [ inaudible ]. and clearly, needs some help. i -- you know, i -- her kind of fixation has lasted for several years, now. you know, at this point, i think, the -- the -- the depth of that unwellness has raised concerns for other members, as well. and so, you know, i think that this is an assessment that needs to be made. >> this week, "washington post" reporter said they witnessed the aggressive encounter, which greene denies. congresswoman ocasio-cortez's comments come the same day a greene aide confronted another democrat, congressman eric swalwell over his wearing of a mask. showing just how far back greene's behavior toward the new york congresswoman really goes.
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congressional correspondent, ryan nobles joins us now with the latest. so what can you tell us about that incident? as well as rising tensions in the halls of congress? >> it seems these confrontations are happening on a semiregular basis on capitol hill. and it really shouldn't come as that big of a surprise when you consider marjorie taylor greene's history. she was someone that rose to fame in conservative circles as being somewhat of an internet provocateur. and our k-file team uncovered this video of greene coming up to capitol hill before she was sworn into congress, attempting to find alexandria ocasio-cortez and confront her. take a listen. >> alexandria ocasio-cortez, i'm an american citizen. i pay your salary through the taxes that you collect from me through the irs because i'm a taxpaying citizen of the united states. i'm a woman. i'm a female-business owner. and i am proud to be an american woman. and i do not support your socialist policies, and i do not support your murderous-abortion
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policies. as a mother of three children, i am appalled at new york's law for abortion. and it needs to end, and it needs to stop now. you are bringing god's judgment on our country, and i am against it, as well as my friends. so, you need to stop being a baby, and stop locking your door. and come out and face the american citizens that you serve. if you want to be a big girl, you need to get rid of your diaper and come out and be able to talk to the american citizens. instead of us having to use a flap. a little flap. >> she keeps flapping her gums. >> oh, flappy, flappy. >> and yes, you did see that correctly. that was -- someone who is now a sitting member of congress, attempting to yell at another member of congress through the mail slot of her office door. so, anderson, it's not a surprise now that the two of them pass each other, frequently, in the halls of congress every day. that there would continue to be dust-ups like this and it seems like this is something that is only happening more, not less. >> and, you know, earlier this week, we saw a number of
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republicans in the house just completely lying about what happened in the capitol on january 6th. i understand, some other republicans today on capitol hill are, also, now, today, offering a distorted version of what happened. >> yeah, that's right. this just shows the fundamental lack of trust between these two sides. congressman louie gohmert today on the house floor suggesting all the violence and chaos on january 6th that we all saw, with our own eyes. that police officers have now recounted horrible stories about just wasn't really that bad. he said it was no different than a group of people just coming into a building on a normal day. this is something that we are seeing a handful of republicans continue to attempt to rewrite history, as to what happened on january 6th. and it's part of the reason there's a fundamental lack of trust, between republicans and democrats. >> louie gohmert. yeah. he was on this show, a while back. i recommend people watch the video. interesting. ryan nobles, thanks very much. appreciate it. joined now by william cohen, a republican who served in both houses of congress before taking the position of secretary of defense under president clinton.
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i appreciate you joining us. did you ever think, i mean, it would sort of come to this? i mean, given -- you served both -- in both houses. you know, in civil-war times, there was, you know, incidents of members of congress, you know, assaulting each other. have you ever seen it, like this? >> i've never seen it like that, anderson. and thank you for having me on. i spent nearly a quarter of a century on capitol hill. and i was able to work with republicans, democrats, those who were independents. and they -- all of them -- had a respect for the institution. to see what is taking place now, it's shameful and shameless. and those members, who are trying to say, no big deal on january 6th. they are trying to perform a frontal lobotomy on the american people. a side effect, which is mental dullness. everyone who watched what took place that day cannot begin to
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even think this was just a normal day, with a bunch of citizens parading through the halls of congress. having a look at what the statuary hall. this was an assault upon democracy. and what liz cheney is doing is, not only trying to save the republican party, she is trying to save the country. she is trying to save democracy. because if we don't have truth, and george former secretary of state said. and when you abandon the rule of law. when the government, according to one justice said, when the government becomes a law breaker, it breeds contempt for the rule of law. it invites anarchy and what we saw on january 6th was anarchy. and for those members, now, to say, oh, it's just a day in the life of members of congress, is absurd. it's insulting. it's sort of, like, they're doing in arizona now. looking for bamboo in the paper?
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being bamboozled by these individuals who are looking for some sign of bamboo in the paper. it makes me kind of wish i was back in the year 2000 with the hanging chads. >> yeah. >> putting all the lights on papers. >> yeah. also, none of these republican congressmen who are reinventing what happened on january 6th. i mean, they scurried away to safety, and i am glad they did get to safety. but they, certainly, weren't volunteering to go stand with police, and go and talk to these, you know, attackers. who they are, now, claiming were just walking through, taking pictures in statuary hall. i mean, it's not as if, you know, they were actually there. and they talk a game, now. but when, you know, when there were actually people through the capitol, they ran away. >> there were no blue lives
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matter signs coming up, that day, on the part of members of congress, who normally are waving that flag to say in opposition to black lives matter. but i -- i come back to what is happening to our democracy, because liz cheney is saying i don't want to be a member of the liar's club. where the membership dues are silence and complicity. she is not going to be complicit because too much is at stake. what the party is now doing is where trying to overturn the events of the election. we are now trying to suppress -- so they become a more-white party, a more aggrieved party, a more narrow party, a more lawless party. and basically, more violent. that is just a sample. we saw it in michigan when they shut down the capitol. we saw it on capitol hill, on january 6th. and this is the shape of things to come, if we don't become the party that believes in the rule
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of law, and the peaceful transfer of power. because if we don't have that, you are going to see a suppression of votes. you're going to have people denied the fundamental right, that so many fought and died for, given up and suppressed, to put a wall around their ability to climb into the voting booth. i think this is -- and i think that liz cheney deserves a lot of credit for taking on the president -- former -- ex-president, directly. and no one else has been doing it, as she has done it and i give her a great deal of credit. >> yeah. secretary william cohen, appreciate your time, thank you. up next the plea deal of friend of congressman matt gaetz just struck and whether the congressman could face more legal trouble.
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one time close associate of congressman matt gaetz has struck a deal with federal prosecutors and could mean more legal trouble for the florida republican. joel greenberg is his name. former friend of gaetz's and former tax collector is expected to plead guilty on monday to six federal crimes including sex trafficking of a child, in a deal that calls for him to cooperate as a witness of other federal investigations. now, according to the plea agreement, greenberg quote introduced the minor to other adult men who engaged in commercial-sex acts with the minor. gaetz is not mentioned in the 86-page plea deal. he is facing a justice-department investigation over whether he had sex with a
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17-year-old and broke sex-trafficking laws. the congressman denies the accusations. joining me, now, on this deal, is former-u.s. attorney and cnn senior legal analyst, preet bharara. so, preet, greenberg's attorney said, quote, i am sure matt gaetz is not feeling very comfortable today. do you think it's fair to say it got more uncomfortable for gaetz, today? >> yeah. i mean, so, for weeks and weeks, we have been speculating -- excuse me -- for weeks and weeks, we have been speculating about whether or not there would actually be a guilty plea. and more importantly, for these purposes, whether or not the guilty plea would be in the form of a cooperation plea. and we have the answer to that, right now. in -- in an 86-page document. very meticulously, detailed document. prosecutors have set forth the underlying facts for the guilty plea. and also, made very clear that the pleading defendant, joel greenberg, has agreed to cooperate, fully, with authorities. agreed to testify at trial. they only do that, if they believe that that person, greenberg in this case, can
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provide what's -- what's called substantial assistance. now, there are some other people mentioned in the various counts to which greenberg pled guilty. but obviously, looming over all of this is the idea that a relatively big fish, a sitting-united states congressman, matt gaetz, is in the cross hairs. we know that from the documents. we know that from the reporting. we know that from joel greenberg's own taunting of matt gaetz so i think it's gotten very serious for the congressman. >> yeah. i mean, federal investigators do not hand out plea deals to alleged child sex traffickers, for nothing. what is the bar? >> well, it depends on the particular circumstances of the case. it, also, depends on whether or not they think a particular witness, who has pled guilty, is going to be credible. and this guy, joel greenberg, has a lot of credibility problems. and so, the bar, for someone like him, is higher than the garden-variety cooperator case because he's not only been
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accused of, but is now pleading guilty to not just crimes of mendacity of lying and making misrepresentations. but to very odious ones. i mean, all the attention is upon the guilty plea to the sex trafficking of a minor, which is a very, very serious crime, of course. but there is another crime to which he's pled guilty, in which he decided to take action against someone who decided to run against him as tax collector in his county. by pretending to be a student, who accused his potential-political adversary of being a pedophile, of being a sexual predator, of being a white supremacist. that's an odious guy. and for them to believe that he could be a good witness at a trial against someone else. they must believe he has substantial testimony to give. >> so, how does something like this work? it -- has he, already -- would he have, already, given them all the information he has? >> yeah. >> about others? >> yeah. so, typically, what would happen is, and that's why i think it's taken so long. went up just the eve of trial. he was supposed to go to trial
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at any moment. they will have debriefed him through, you know, the proffers. meaning, meetings with the prosecutors. where he would have been asked all the information he has about himself, his own crimes, the crimes of others, presumably matt gaetz. and whether or not there is going to ultimately be a charge against matt gaetz, although i suspect there will be. that is already under bridge. they have gotten all that. they have interview notes of all that. they probably started drafting charging documents against other people. only after you do all that, do you get a plea agreement like this on which you've signed and then actually have an allocution before the judge on monday. >> can we expect the attorney's office to move pretty quickly? >> you know, it's hard to know. my -- my sense is, if there is going to be a charge against other people, including the current congressman, given how much time has gone by. given how much attention there is to this. given how much time has been spent with this witness. i mean, apparently, he's been talking to authorities for some
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months, now. given the details of document that they put out in the public. 86 pages, as i mentioned. i would not be surprise -- you never know -- but i would not be surprised, if we see some charges against other people, including the congressman, within weeks, not months. >> preet bharara, appreciate it. thanks so much. coming up. an audit or update, i should say, on that so-called audit being conducted in arizona and why moving day there has, well, a brand-new meaning. call td amee for a strategy gut check? what's that? you run it by an expert, you talk about the risk and potential profit and loss. could've used that before i hired my interior decorator. get a strategy gut check from our trade desk. ♪ (vo) jamaica. (woman) best decision ever. (vo) feel the sand between your toes, and the gentle waves of the sea on your skin. feel the warm jamaican breeze lift your spirits and nourish your soul. escape to exactly what makes your heart beat.
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ballots cast in the 2020 election in arizona's most populous county, maricopa. lifted by forklifts, loaded onto trucks. leaving this coliseum because of scheduled high-school graduations. driven across the hot pavement of the arizona fairgrounds. the trucks passed by the crazy times carnival. for the last two weeks, the carnival has been running. carnival goers, heading here, when they have to use the bathroom. that same, green building, where maricopa county's ballots are being housed for the next week. sitting just a few-hundred yards south of the coliseum, where the audit was happening, the wesley building comes with a warning. facility rental paperwork states, due to temperatures during the summer months, this building is not recommended for use. the trailer says the arizona senate liaison are being individually cooled. >> will that facility be
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controlled -- climate controlled as well? moisture controlled? >> yes, means they'll be in a locked container with 24/7 armed guards. fencing. and 24/7 live-streaming cameras. >> reporter: all of this as a partisan-led exercise in pursuit of the big lie that the 2020 election was stolen from former-president donald trump. despite two audits by maricopa county, the gop-controlled senate hired a little-known tech company called cyber ninjas to run this count. >> to see something like this whereby, you are actually moving it in the midst of the process and then stopping, altogether, for week on end and getting restarted, yet again. that is something i have never seen. >> reporter: ryan is an expert in election technology. he watched the ballots move, hired by the arizona secretary of state to observe cyber ninjas' ballot count. as ridiculous as all of this looks, he fears the fallout. >> unfortunately, we are at a spot right now where faith has been lost. and again, we should be trying to build the truth and building
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back trust. >> and kyung joins us right now. just so i -- i am a little confused. when they announced their results, how will anybody know if it's -- those were actually the results they got? or just the results they wanted? >> very good question. i don't know. and i don't think a lot of the people who are watching this process, actually, know. and -- and that's part of the problem, is that the procedures have been so different. that it's very difficult to tell what they're looking for, and what conspiracy theories they're trying to prove. and then, you know, you saw the ballots moving in and out today. they are currently in this building, over here. they're going to be here for one week. they're going to move back in, and then they are going to start counting, again. and it's unprecedented for it to stop. here's one other thing, anderson. if they don't finish, by july 11th, there is a gun show. they are going to have to do
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this whole thing, again. moving the back and forth. so, one thing we can tell you, though, anderson. i am pleased to tell you we do know that one thing will end. this carnival here, the crazy times carnival, it does end on saturday. anderson. >> crazy times continue. kyung lah, thanks very much the appreciate it. >> joining me now is arizona secretary of state, katie hobbs, who goes without saying has had her hands full with this whole exercise. secretary hobbs, let me start with my last question to kyung, which is, so, these people. the cyber ninjas announce the results. how -- how is there any proof that those are actually the results that they got? >> well, the fact is, anderson, there -- there is no proof, at a all. i mean, we have -- the fact that we were able to get observers in there, and have some transparency into the process has just reinforced the concerns we already had about what's going on in there.
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and, you know, the way that they are handling things. the way that they're aggregating results. it's just primed for -- for cooking the books. >> so, i mean, if they make announcement that they found 100,000 bamboo chutes in -- mixed, you know, in these ballots which is evidence that they were xeroxed in asia and -- and fedexed over here. there is nothing to say that that didn't happen, right? other than the fact that it didn't happen and, you know, the -- these -- these have already been recounted by officials. who are of all parties and nonpartisan, in this process. >> yeah. and i just want to clarify. there has not been a recount in arizona. we have done hand-count audits of randomly-selected precincts, according to statute. and we have done forensic audits of the equipment in maricopa county. so just want to clarify that. but yeah, no, i mean, this whole
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thing is -- is just, over and over again, we see they are making it up as they go along. you can't make up this stuff. there's a crazy times carnival outside. just so many, glaring things that would not be happening, if this were a true, postelection audit. >> so, you have been outspoken on this audit, from the very beginning. called it a fraudit. supporters of it say what are democrats upset about? elise stefanik said essentially what are democrats upset about? are they trying to hide something? what is the potential damage here? >> i mean, the potential damage is far reaching, in terms of undermining election integrity, far into the future. we -- we have -- we have free-and-fair elections. in america, they are the cornerstone of our democracy. and part of that system is there are winners and losers. but we trust the systems that are in place. we can't go to a system, like this, where everybody's just double questioning everything. when we followed the -- the laws
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and did things by the books. and passed all of the postelection audits. it's just -- it's craziness. and -- and it just -- this just continues to under mine our democracy and it's based on one loser's failure to be able to accept the fact that he lost. >> and as of last night, only 500,000 ballots, out of the 2.1 million total, had been counted. or allegedly, counted by this group. could this end up just being kind of an open-ended thing that goes on and on? because i mean, if that's all they have done in this amount of time, as kyung said, there's a gun show coming in july. >> right. and i don't know the pace that they're counting at. it seems like they sped up and got a little bit more done, in these last few days, than they had been able to get to before. but yeah. i mean, i just think their processes continue to change, which undermines the accuracy of results. and, yeah, i just -- i -- and --
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and the -- the other fact, that they are continuing to make money off of this. and so, the longer it extends out, the better is it for the bottom line. >> katie hobbs, appreciate it. thank you. >> thank you. next up, video surfaces of another incident, where a person of color dies at the hands of law enforcement. and this time, in south carolina, in a jail. details, when we continue. tomorrow's potential. we have to look... we need to look beyond what we recognize. beyond what's familiar. we have to look where we haven't looked before. we need empathy. because improving your world starts with improving someone else's. to hire, promote, fund tomorrow's potential. that's when change will happen. ♪
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it took four long months for a south carolina family to finally see, firsthand, how their loved one, jamal sutherland, died. while in custody at the charleston county jail. now, the public is getting a first look at the disturbing video from january 5th. two hours worth of footage was released late last night and what it shows raises questions, yet again, about the use of force, particularly against people of color. and how law enforcement handles people with mental illness. i want to warn you, the video is disturbing. cnn's natasha chen has more. >> reporter: on new year's eve, jamal sutherland's family says they brought him to a behavioral-health facility, as they say he long struggled with mental illness. five days later, 31-year-old sutherland allegedly punched a staff member in the midst of a fight between patients and staff.
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sutherland was taken to the county jail, but not to the medical facility. instead, to an area reserved for misbehaving inmates according to a family attorney. >> let go of me, now! >> at about 9:15 the next morning, charleston county deputies attempted to move sutherland from his >> i'll be back. >> reporter: in the videos, a deputy is heard saying sutherland has refused to leave his cell and took a, quote, aggressive stance. at 9:29 a.m. you can hear sounds of pepper spray being used. and sutherland coughing with a blanket around his head. after a few minutes of sutherland not complying to come to the door, another round of pepper spray. then deputies open the door a third time. then you can hear a taser
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firing. >> turn on your stomach! turn on your stomach! turn on your stomach! slide to the door! slide to the door! get on your stomach, slide to the door! stay on your stomach! stay on your stomach! >> reporter: deputies tell sutherland to keep sliding toward the door, which he does. >> what's the meaning of this? >> keep coming, keep coming. >> turn over on your stomach. >> turn on your stomach! turn on your stomach. >> for what? >> reporter: deputies then enter the cell to handcuff him. >> do not resist. >> let me sit up.
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>> reporter: deputies tase him again. sutherland screams, his legs flailing. this chaotic struggle goes on for about two minutes. until sutherland is eventually handcuffed. two minutes later he's dragged out of his cell and into the common area. by the time sutherland is lifted into a wheelchair, he is motionless. >> is he all right? >> reporter: medics arrive. >> he got tased probably six to eight times at least. >> reporter: and after ems spends about 35 minutes trying to revive him, a blanket is placed over his body. >> natasha chen joins us now. i understand that you spoke with jamal sutherland's mother. what did she tell you?
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>> reporter: anderson, she was at a press conference today and you could see how difficult this was emotionally for her just listening to the family attorney recount what happened in that disturbing video you just saw. she said to us that mental illness does not give anybody the right to put their hands on her child and that jamal was an example of what she wanted him to be. after that press conference, later in the afternoon the sheriff also gave a press conference. she said that the deputies involved are on administrative desk duty pending the outcome of an internal investigation. she also said that some changes have already been made. for example, residents of the facility can waive their appearance for a bond hearing and there's a policy now that residents must get the medications they need. she did acknowledge too that the sheriff's office really needs more mental health professionals because right now they only have one. >> natasha chen, thank you, appreciate it. growing fears in the middle
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♪ ♪ we know it's going to take many forms of energy to meet the world's needs while creating a cleaner future for all. at chevron, we're lowering the carbon emissions intensity of our operations, investing in lower-carbon technologies, and exploring renewable fuels of the future. we work hard to care for the homes we love. but it's only human... to protect the one we share. tonight there's growing tension across israel, the gaza strip and the west bank. rockets have been tearing into buildings in gaza city. palestinian families have fled. the destruction and death toll climbing on both sides. 126 deaths. and eight in israel. eight civilians killed in
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israel, one soldier according to the israeli military. the operation in gaza is focused on destroying an underground network of tunnels used by hamas. throughout the west bank more clashes throughout the day and they are warning israel against any ground invasion. ben wedeman joins us from jerusalem with the latest. ben, first of all, do we know the death toll in gaza? what have the last 24 hours been like in israel and throughout the region? >> well, what we've seen is that particularly today is that in addition to the back and forth between gaza, in addition to the intercommunal violence within israel itself, the new element is that the west bank now seems to have risen up. we were in bethlehem during friday. of course today is saturday. and what we saw is that the demonstrations across the west bank were vast and so was the casualty figures. in fact today or rather on friday, ten people were killed
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in clashes across the west bank. more than 1,300 injured. we have not seen these numbers in the west bank since the second in tefada. the pattern here has always been people are killed, the following day there are demonstrations after the funerals, and those result in more deaths. and tomorrow is what's known as nukba day. that is the day that commemorates the creation of the state of israel in 1948 and the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of palestinians. so we have more petrol being thrown on an already blazing fire here, anderson. >> we saw the death toll in gaza 126 so far. the u.n. secretary general has called for all parties to immediately cease fighting. there's no sign that that is going to take place?
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>> reporter: no. calls like that at the moment seem to be falling on deaf ears. we know that the israelis have made it clear they have objectives in gaza that they want to achieve and they are going to go ahead with their operation until they achieve it. now, we've heard that in previous instances when gaza and israel went to war, when israel and hezbollah and lebanon went to war, but oftentimes those objectives are not achieved and, therefore, this is one of the reasons why this is the fourth war we've covered in gaza since 2008. on the palestinian side, they also -- they clearly are hoping for some sort of cessation of hostilities, but at the moment there doesn't seem to be any effort that's gaining traction to bring this fighting to a close, anderson. >> ben
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