rely on the experts at 1800petmeds for the same medications as the vet, but for less with fast free shipping. visit petmeds.com today. good evening. a man who was justifiably frightened by what he saw at the capitol on the 6th of january but had a moment of courage to allow him to stand up to the president telephone united states has now completed his metamorphosis. there will be no more moments of courage from house minority leader kevin mccarthy. and to see his defense of that transformation is striking and intellectual dishonesty. last night, along with breaking news on the election lie we touched on reporting from jamie gangel on the capitol attack. her sources telling her he was concerned about being called to testify about his conversation with the defeated president that day and what happened between election day and the attack. her sources telling her he was concerned but also what happened

between election day and the take. so that's where we left it last night, that a vote approving the commission would come wednesday, tomorrow. well, pretty much right on cue, leader mccarthy came out against the decision, surprising no one, but still shocking some. this is the representative from massachusetts. >> we have some members from congress who are basically saying what we saw and what we experienced didn't really happen. i mean, enough, i've had it. i mean, i talked earlier about talking to staff members and talking to people, talking to the capitol police, talking to people who work in the cafeteria who are traumatized by the attack on this chamber. i mean, this was the vice president of the united states was a target. it is pathetic and, you know, i'm sorry for venting but, you know, i'm worried about this institution. >> leader mccarthy has not

commented on camera, however he did put out a statement outlining his objections, chief among them that the focus of a bipartisan commission investigating the attack on january 6 won't be on lots of other things like people who are not marauding through the capitol during the they tack on january 6. quoting now, the renewed focus to democrats to stand up to an additional commission ignores the violence that struck american cities. a republican congressional baseball practice and most recently the deadly attack on capitol place april 2nd, 2021. mccarthy is trying to lump together two admittedly heinous attacks by individuals and a campaign of largely though not exclusively peaceful demonstrations declaring that black lives matter with this singular event unique in this country's history. and it's not only us calling it that or democrats or never trump republicans. as it was happening, that's precisely how mccarthy described it, too. >> i have been on this capitol

for more than ten years and never seen this. what is happening right now is unacceptable. >> "i have never seen anything like this. unacceptable" he said on that. and he was right. he and we were witnessing what the distinguished scholar larry sabato today called america's first real attempted coup. whether or not leader mccarthy saw it that way at the time, he clearly knew it was unique, unacceptable and wrong and his own actions suggest he knew who had lit the fuse. >> as this capitol was being overrun, i called the president. i talked to the president. i explained to him what was going on right now, and i asked him to go and speak to the american public, speak to these individuals and them to stop. >> which eventually the president did, said he loved them. they were very special people, to go home with love. today that man who had some backbone in the moment to call the president of the united states when he himself was under

threat, leader mccarthy that is and even days later criticized the president for his role now says the worst attack on american democracy since the civil war is one in a string of unrelated incidents. whatever courage and leadership mccarthy showed that day now appears gone, overtaken by cynical political calculation. he has never really tried to hide very much, or if he is, he is not very good at hiding it. here he is five years ago when he was focused on only one thing, over and over and other again. >> everybody thought hillary clinton was unbeatable, right? but we put together a benghazi special committee, a select committee. what are her numbers today? her numbers are dropping. why? because she is untrustable. but no one would have known any of that had happened had we not -- >> i agree. >> so he supported every single one of the many benghazi investigations, none of which produced any major bombshells

all of which served a larger political aim, which you just heard him acknowledge there. it was, he admitted right there what you might call an act of political misdirection. and the funny thing about words and hypocrisy and misdirection, that is what he is now accusing democrats of today. quoting again from his statement, given the political misdirections that have marred this process, given the now duplicative and potential lip counter productive nature of this effort and given the speaker's shortsighted scope that does not examine interrelated forms of political violence in america, i cannot support this legislation. "given the political misdirections," he says. as he argues that house panels can handle the investigating. so listen to some of his party's lawmakers, other fellow congressional republicans on those existing panels, and see if you can pick out the political misdirections. >> was trump supporters who lost their lives that day, not trump

supporters who were taking the lives of others. >> outright propaganda and lies are being used to unleash the national security state against law-abiding u.s. citizens. especially trump voters. as a result, the doj is harassing -- harassing peaceful patriots across the country. >> there was no insurrection, and to call it an insurrection in my opinion is a bold-faced lie. watching the tv footage of those who entered the capitol and walked through statuary hall showed people in an orderly fashion staying between the stanchions and ropes, taking video pictures. you know, if you didn't know the tv footage was a video from january the 6th, you would think it was a normal tourist visit. >> you know, i seen that guy say that like five times now and i still just find it sickening. i mean, painting a violent assault as a washington school field trip. in that guy's case, congressman clyde's case, knowing misdirection. take a look at this image. "the washington post" published

several photos of the congressman, this one from roll call magazine, second from the top left, helping barricade the door. i give him props for helping law enforcement try to barricade the door. notice he wasn't out there. he didn't say we don't need to barricade the door, these people are like tourist. in fact, i'm going to go out and talk to them because they're just here like tourists. they're just wandering through statuary hall, taking pictures standing between the ropes. no. he was barricading the door, afraid of those people. and he was right to be afraid. members of congress in that room were being told to take off their pins that identify them as members of congress for their own protection. just another day at the capitol. that's now what he's claiming. the guy has no shame. 's not alone in downplaying what even for him at the time was a potentially life and death moment. certainly thought it was. he's barricading the door. he's not the only one asking us to look the other way at non-exist tablet ballot fraud or

asking us all to pretend that what was said that di wasn't really for real, even though the mob clearly thought it was. >> over the next ten days we get to see the machines that are crooked, the ballots that are fraudulent and if we're wrong, we will be made fools of. but if we're right, a lot of them will go to jail. so let's have trial by combat. u. >> yesterday, in response to a lawsuit by congressman eric swalwell, lawyers for rudy giuliani argued he wasn't literally arguing for an insurrection over the 2020 election results at a rally whose entire theme was advocate fogger the overturn of the election. congressman mow brooks is also named in the lawsuit. he is the one who told the crowd it's time for patriots to start taking aims and kicking ass up on capitol hill. tomorrow congressman brooks will vote on the bicommission.

so will liz cheney, who wants leader mccarthy to testify before. so will leader mccarthy, for that matter. they'll all be on record. his members are undecided given t through they went through that day. this assault on democracy is likely to echo through history. what a strange thing it is to be noncommittal about investigating. in the meantime, cnn special correspondent jamie gangel's new reporting on the state in play. she joins us along with gloria borger. jamie, walk us through your reporting. what's behind kevin mccarthy's opposition to this commission, and why is he so afraid to testify? >> so kevin mccarthy sent his colleague, new york congressman john katko in to negotiate a deal that kevin mccarthy never wanted. he just never told john katko that. and the democrats, made concession after concession, and

john katko thought he had made a great, fair to use his words bipartisan deal. i am told by many republicans in the conference, do not underestimate how badly kevin mccarthy wants this commission to go away. one said to me, quote, kevin got too scared. he can't let it go any place. and it's very simple. he is scared of donald trump. he does not want to testify about that phone call on january 6. he does not want to testify on what happened in the weeks leading up to it, the conversations he had with trump, the meetings. and he also, i'm told, could be asked about conversations he's had with donald trump since january 6. that famous picture at mar-a-lago. what did they talk about at

lunch? all the phone calls they've been having now. did donald trump along the way ever say to kevin mccarthy maybe you can clean up that phone call. we don't know, but knowing donald trump, it's within the realm of possibility. >> so gloria, what do you make of the fact that mccarthy's decision ultimately -- it ultimately comes down to fear, fear that if there is a commission, he'll be called as a witness. >> right. >> and fear of daddy in mar-a-lago sending out a mean tweet if he ever gets back on twitter? >> yeah, exactly. as jamie was saying, he is afraid of donald trump. i was talking to a republican strategist today who said to me trump is going to say kevin was weak, and kevin is afraid of that. he doesn't want that to happen. it's happened to him too many times before, and it's hurt him. and all he is thinking about, of course, is the potential for him to become speaker of the house. but there is a chance.

and i was talking to one house republican about this who was for a commission who said to me, look, this could boomerang. kevin mccarthy has played this so badly. one day he is backing off. he's got katko negotiating. the next day he says i'm not going to -- i'm not going to be for it, but i'm not going whip it. i'm not going to make you vote one way. then he changes his mind. and then he puts mitch mcconnell in a tight spot in the senate where now mcconnell has to figure out how he can play his senate republicans so they don't get caught, vulnerable ones in states where house guys vote against the commission and are with donald trump and a senator might be for it and then donald trump goes after that senator. so he's -- they're not thrilled with him. >> and jamie, what are you hearing from people you talked to, your source about how other house republicans feel about all this? obviously, mccarthy's hypocrisy is on full display. he is hardly alone, though. >> right. i'm hearing that more and more

members of the republican conference are, as gloria just said, not happy with kevin mccarthy. he is alienating the very people who he needs if they take back the house in 2022 to vote for him. and i'm hearing that he is alienating moderate republicans, the freedom caucus could betray him just on a whim. that's what they do. one republican source said to me, quote, there is a lot of drama right now, and kevin is in a perilous position. i'm not talking about right now. i'm talking about the long game, as gloria pointed out. >> gloria, as we just mentioned, though, mitch mcconnell was noncommittal on a commission. he said the senate gop is undecided about the way forward. is there any chance there is enough senate republicans to actually vote for it in the senate? ten senate republicans? >> there is. yeah, you know, there is the

chance. you had seven republicans who voted for impeachment. but now this makes life a lot more difficult. and of course the irony here is we know what mitch mcconnell thinks of donald trump's role in the insurrection. he went to the floor of the senate, and he said that donald trump provoked the insurrection. i guarantee you that mitch mcconnell wouldn't mind some kind of a commission that would come out officially for history for the accountability of the republican party and the country to come out and say that. but his job, number one, as always, is to protect his flock. and now kevin mccarthy has made such a mess of it, he is trying to figure out what he can do. you know, i don't know -- i don't know where he is going to wind up, but today he was clearly backing off and backing away from outright support for any kind of commission saying,

well, we have to make sure the staff will be bipartisan. we have to make sure that it's limited in scope, et cetera, et cetera. i don't know how this is going to wind up. >> gloria borger, jamie gangel, thank you. appreciate it. for more on this perspective now from colorado democratic congressman and former army ranger jason crow, you'll recall he is one of a number of combat veterans called upon during the siege to lend their expertise and provide whatever comfort they could to people who had never faced this danger before. congressman crow, you see this change in strategy from house republicans now. they're now actively whipping their members to vote against the january 6 commission. plus all the indications that kevin mccarthy isn't just opposed to the commission, he is worried about the commission and how it might impact him. do you think he should be worried? >> well, if you're kevin mccarthy, and your only interest is becoming the speaker of the house and you're not afraid of what you need to burn down in order to get that, then yeah, he

should be afraid of it. he made the determination that it's not good to talk about january 6. he needs zrump's report, regardless of donald trump's behavior and incitement of the insurrection, and he wants to sweep this under the rug. he appointed one of his members to negotiate with democrats in the house to come up with the compromise here. they did that. they came up with a bipartisan compromise. and now he's backing off of it. so if i were him, this is not in his political interest, but it is in the interests of the country. >> there is also, of course, the question of -- and you have talked about this in the past with me about were some members complicit in some ways in what occurred before, during, or after. and that also needs to be investigated. and this is the only way the really do that. >> well, and normal circumstances, if somebody has a conflict of interest or they were complicit, there would be recusal. that doesn't exist in the house. so here you have kevin mccarthy.

i'm sure he's thinking to himself, i really don't want to be subpoenaed by this commission, and i really don't want to have to talk under subpoena, under oath my conversation with donald trump the night of january 6. he doesn't want to talk about that. and i understand why. of course, his reasoning is wrong. but there are other people who i do believe may have been complicit. i've always avoided jumping to conclusions here, but there needs to be an investigation that is impartial by experts to find the truth. and i think there are some folks that don't want us to get to that truth. >> yeah. i was really kind of stunned at not really kevin mccarthy, but just at the idea that we cannot even have a bipartisan commission to investigate the worst attack against america's democracy probably since the civil war that we can't mount that is really incredible to me. that everybody would not want to know exactly what happened and how this happened. >> yeah.

you and me both, anderson. it is incredible. and here is the difference. i think we need to make a decision between what america wants and knows needs to happen. because what america knows is that january 6 happened. it was a terrible day. this needs to happen. there is a big difference between that and what's happening with republicans in the house of representatives, and kevin mccarthy specifically. >> you also there are a number of republicans in the house who are actively lying about what occurred on that day and portraying it while they were, you know, like everybody else, afraid for their lives and understandably so and barricading themselves and barricaded behind closed doors during the attack. they're now pretending like it wasn't an attack at all that, it was just like a bunch of tourists walking through taking pictures. >> well, let's take kevin mccarthy, for example, again. here you have a man who hours after the january 6 attack,

after we retook the capitol and resecured the seat of our democracy, we were all sitting on the floor of the house of representatives. and kevin mccarthy himself got up and gave a speech and called me out personally by name as one of the members that helped hold the breach and hold back the mob from taking the house floor. now you fast forward a couple month, and it didn't happen, or it didn't happen the way we all remembered it happened, our eyes deceived us. the video footage is showing something different. what we are seeing is a really unprecedented attempt to try to change history here. because they have determined it's in their political self-interest to do. so i'm not going to let them do it. our colleagues are not going to let them do it. but we are going to preserve history, and not just for the sake of integrity in history, but because we have an extremist violent movement that has to be dealt with. >> john thune said today that mccarthy's opposition in the commission has made passage in the senate a little more uncertain, in his words. democrats will need 10

republican votes for it to pass. are you confident those votes actually exist? that's assuming it passes in the house. >> i don't know. i haven't done a whip count in the senate. but i will say this underscores once again the need to end the fill buster in the senate. because if we can't do something like have a commission about an insurrection that our country faced just a couple of months ago, if we can't pass gun violence prevention, voting rights bill, it's time for this arcane senate procedure to come to an end, because our democracy frankly at this point depends on it. >> congressman crow, i really appreciate your time. thank you so much. >> thanks, anderson. there is a lot more ahead tonight, including protesters on the street. right now after north carolina authorities concluded no laws were broken when sheriffs deputies shot and killed andrew brown jr. in his car during an arrest. that and new video of the moment is next. later, my conversation with a former f-18 fighter pilot about what she saw during one flight more than a decade and a half ago that she and other pilots still cannot explain to

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protesters have gathered tonight in north carolina after a district attorney decided not to bring charges against deputies in the shooting death of black man last month. the d.a. explained his decision saying andrew brown jr., quote, ignored commands and drove directly at a deputy, police deputy. attorneys for the family disagree, saying that portions of body cam footage released today do not indicate that brown was using his car as a weapon. so far all the video has not been released. today the family petitioned the court for the full release. the sheriff has also asked a court to release the video. he says the d.a. concluded that no criminal law was violated by the deputies, however, quote, this was a terrible and tragic outcome and we can do better. because there is such an intense mix of opinion about what the tape shows, we want to show it to you now.

we want to warn you, this tape shows the end of a man's life and is disturbing. >> go, go, go, go! stop! stop, stop! stop, stop the car ! >> hey, hey!

>> i'm joined by one of the attorneys for andrew brown jr.'s family, benjamin crump. mr. trump, i appreciate you joining us. i want to play the video again as we talk to you. this is the first time i'm seeing it. what is your reaction what it shows and the district attorney calling the shooting justified? >> well, it's outrageous anderson, that this district attorney will attempt to whitewash this unjustified killing of a black man moving away from him where they will shoot him in the back when he posed no threat of violence or harm to them, clearly based on they're out of any harm's way as he is moving away from them. and this follows a pattern, anderson, where a black man in america who are unarmed are repeatedly shot in the back by police all over america. >> i mean, there is no

suggestion that mr. brown was armed, and i guess the district attorney had said that by driving his vehicle in the direction of where an officer was, he was a danger to that officer. you reject that categorically? >> we reject it categorically and we would ask that they release all the videos and the family would demand they release the north carolina state bureau of investigations report, because transparency is the primary objective here. if you are confident that this was justified, then why do you continue to refuse to release the video? the fact that you violated your own policies of shooting into a moving car is enough for those officers to have been charged with negligent homicide. but when you tell us it's

justified, and we see on the video that none of these officers were in harm's way, and we see this man shot to the back of his head, it tells us simply that this was a whitewash and that the local district attorney, who is housed in the same building with the local sheriff's department seems to have made their mind up from the beginning that they were not going charge these officers for killing this unarmed black man in elizabeth city, north carolina. >> the district attorney said he did not give the brown family a heads up before the announcement today because of what he called dysfunction in the relationship between the family and the prosecutor's office. he also accused the family's legal team of misrepresenting the facts. what do you say to that? >> i say the video is so clear that it doesn't need to be interpreted.

mr. d.a., why don't you release the video? we don't need you to interpret it for us. we can see for our own eyes, the reason he wants to interpret it is because he wants to try to whitewash it, anderson. he wants to try to justify the unjustifiable killing of this unarmed black man. and that's why we're calling for the federal department of justice to intervene immediately, because his press conference did nothing to calm this situation. and we refuse to let it be swept under the rug. >> benjamin crump, i appreciate your time tonight. thank you. >> thank you, anderson. next, our own legal analysts weigh in on today's decision. what sees in the video along with a former top police officer, as we continue.

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news out of north carolina where protesters gathered when a district attorney decided not to bring charges against deputies involved in the shooting death of a black man. the d.a. cited a portion of the videocam arguing it showed andrew brown jr. speeding his car away in the direction of an officer. moments ago the family's attorney joined us. he called it a whitewash and said the police were not in harm's way. let's get perspective from laura coates, former federal prosecutor and cnn legal analyst. and terrance gainer, former chief of the capitol police. he was also previous director of illinois state police and a former chicago police officer. first of all, what do you make of the video that the district attorney showed today, this just one of a number of body cam videos. this is the one that was released. do you believe this was a justified shooting, as he contends? >> i mean we don't have all of the videos here, and we should have that full transparency, just to juxtapose this to what happened in the brooklyn center case in minneapolis.

the idea of releasing the video footage right away to install increased trust in the system. here you had the withholding of information, not preparing the family, the absence of transparency, talking about these issues. so you have here this idea where they're trying to base it on -- and i have to decode this when i look at these. whenever i marry a police officer or a prosecutor talk about words like justifiable or reasonable or fleeing felons, et cetera, i'm reminded of the 1985 supreme court case where the supreme court has already said in tennessee versus garner, you don't get to essentially substitute pursuit with just deadly force unless you are aware that the person poses a threat to the officers or the people in the community. and what the d.a. was trying to suggest today was the use of a vehicle, the presence of the vehicle and its direction towards an officer was enough. but without all of the video to give that holistic perspective and vantage point, we are really at the mercy of the d.a.'s interpretation of what has happened. >> chief gaynor, i wonder what

you make of what you see in the video. the d.a. says the video clearly illustrates the officers used deadly force, quote, reasonably, and only after mr. brown used a deadly weapon, in this case his car. do you think he showed an imminent threat in your view? >> no, the tape as laura just said, the film is not definitive. a lot more information is needed. and trust is so important in the system. and i don't think the prosecutor helped build trust at all. he made a statement that said something like a car is always dangerous, whether it's going forward, going back, going sideways, or even not even moving. that's a silly comment. and i don't think he had done anything of empathy to talk about what this may have been. the tactics look bad. the crossfire looks dangerous. so there are so many things to unravel here. >> chief, just in terms of police, what is proper protocol, i mean, if somebody is fleeing the scene of an arrest, of not

wanting to be arrested and they are leaving, in this case he is driving off, and he clearly seems to be trying to drive away, are -- and he has been accused of -- the officers said they had purchased narcotics from him previously. is it okay to shoot at somebody who's not wanting to be arrested? >> no. not even how you lay it out, anderson. there has to be a lot more to go into it. they knew who this person was. you can always come and get him again. and it goes back to the original that they used. but just fleeing in this set of circumstance does not seem to warrant the use of deadly force. there is no reason to do that. there are other ways to do this. and the other thing the prosecutor said when you listen to him, he said if the first shot is legal, the second shot is legal and the third shot is legal, and the fourth shot is

legal. i don't agree with that at all. there is an obligation to de-escalate and to only use as much force as necessary. he just can't prattle on like that that a car sitting still is a danger to the officer, or as many shots as you want to make you feel better about it. >> laura, i saw you shaking your head, the idea that if one shot has been fired, then multiple shots is fine. >> well, remember you have to reassess continuously, the continual use of force. the use of force they're using is necessary and proportional. but at some point it can become excessive. we've all become in the court of public opinion those armchair lawyers who learned this in the derek chauvin trial if you didn't already know it before. but this idea here of being able to pursue. remember the context. the chief is actually right. this was a warrant squad essentially. they knew where he lived. they knew who he was. they knew the nature of the crime that he was alleged to have committed.

they knew it was not of a violent nature. they had no indication whatsoever that he was armed. so all of that combined says the use of force continuum should be at the lower benign end or at least pursue him. the supreme court says you don't get to substitute deadly force for pursuit. if that was the case, every time a car was pulled over who wanted to engage in a high-speed chase or otherwise, would be able to use lethal force, even if they didn't present a threat to the greater community and the officers. >> go ahead, sorry, chief. >> anderson, at least the sheriff, based on what we heard, indicates there was either operational missteps here or tactical misstep, and he is going to discipline those officers. so the obligation in a press conference like this is to be transparent, be empathetic, let the family know and lay out some of the facts that even if you could make an argument that it's legal, there was so much wrong with this. >> chief gainer, appreciate it. laura coates as well.

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for the same medications as the vet, but for less with fast free shipping. visit petmeds.com today. as israeli strikes continue in gaza, at least one person familiar with the discussions between the white house and israel believes the signals coming from the israelis that their campaign in gaza may wind down in the coming days. no timeline was given. however, people familiar with the matter say president biden has warned israel's benjamin netanyahu that pressure to call for an end to hostilities is growing. interestingly, this comes as israel said its mission to destroy hamas' tunnel network in gaza will be expanded in the coming days. according to figures released by hamas, at least 217 palestinians have been killed, including 63 children by airstrikes. israeli officials say at least a dozen have been killed in israel by firepower from muslim militants.

ben wedeman has more. >> reporter: explosions light the sky above gaza as a brief overnight lull breaks with fresh air strikes from israel. gaza militants returned fire, according to israeli officials, and so began another day of violence. thousands of palestinians protesting in solidarity with gaza, taking to the streets in the west bank and east jerusalem. some clashed with israeli police just north of the old city, where several palestinian families face forced eviction from homes claimed by jewish settlers. >> striking for our dignity. we have endured 73 years of occupation. and humiliation, and we've had enough. >> reporter: haumas, fatah and palestinian civil society groups calling for the demonstrations. on the ninth day of cross-border fire, the ninth day of devastation. the israeli military says w

warplanes struck nine rocket launches on tuesday and targeted a tunnel system, homes of hamas commanders, and an anti-tank squad in gaza city. the strikes on militants catching civilians in the crossfire. a bereaved father in gaza clutches his wounded baby, his only surviving family after air strikes killed his wife and four sons. they're among more than 200 palestinians killed so far in the conflict. israel's prime minister says their offensive will press on. >> translator: we've taken hamas years back. we'll continue as long as necessary to bring the quiet back to the citizens of israel. >> reporter: in israel, two thai migrant workers were killed and seven others injured after a strike on an israeli farm just over the gaza fence. hamas and islamic jihad claimed responsibility as the death toll

in israel rises to 12. further north, rockets also landed on the israeli cities. some israelis living in range of the rocket fire have fled to shelters for safety, afraid more violence will come. >> my children are suffering from anxiety. they are so scared to sleep at home. >> reporter: a life of fear becoming the norm as civilians pay the price in a conflict raging on. >> and ben wedeman joins us now from jerusalem. what's been happening overnight, ben? >> anderson, this day of the general strike has ended with four people dead. more than 200 wounded on the west bank and gaza itself within the last hour, an israeli strike has left two more people dead. anderson? >> ben wedeman, appreciate you being there. thank you. up next, did a u.s. navy pilot actually see an unidentified flying object

zipping across the skies off the coast of san diego? we'll talk to her what she saw along with other pilots who were flying with her. we'll be right back. tonight, i'll be eating fried avocado tacos. [doorbell rings] [doorbell rings] thank you. ooo... you gonna eat that at lesliepalooza? what? who's coming to that? everyone's coming, everybody. you, her, me, all of us. [ring] [ring ring] [ring] oh no... i thought i just ordered tacos. nope! sushi... ramen... burgers... tandoori chicken... some milk from the store, and... ...and, let me guess. cookies? wha, me hungry! yeah. here, i'll call some friends to help us eat. yeah, that good idea. yeah. get more from your neighborhood. doordash. hey yo, grover! you like ramen?

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retired navy commander has a veteran combat pilot. flown f-18 fighter pilots over iraq and afghanistan and she lit up the internet not with stories about combat missions but went public what she and a pilot saw off the coast of san diego in 2004, something unsettling. question was, was it a ufo? there is no explanation but a unit devoted to unexplained phenomenon at the department of defense. the commander joins me tonight. alex, first of all, walk us through what it is you saw. >> i want to be careful because it's been 16 years since that event. >> this was 2004? >> april 14th, 2004 and i want to be careful because we know right that the science of the mind, the science of the memory is -- we shouldn't rely too much on my technical account at this

point but i'll point out that we -- the other air pilot and i made debriefs on that day within minutes of landing and that i made a written account with as many arrows and details and including altitudes and all that that i could within i would say hours of landing and then within a few years gave thorough interrogation style details to members of the naval intelligence. i'll tell you overall, what happened was that we were on a routine training mission off the coast of southern california which is an aircraft carrier. i was with vfa 41 which is a strike fighter squadron as a new pilot.

we were heading off to do air intercepts. we were heading off to do like a scrimmage. practice air run. we were redirected. we were given vectors to see if we could identify a real world contact. we were scanning and we don't see it but i steds we do see something in the water pe low us. my heart sank. i went from being excited we might get those bad guys to oh, no, those bad guys have crashed and are sink and we're on commanders for search and rescue effort. then almost as soon as that happened, sb stage left. the tick tack. that what he refer to it as because that's what it looked like. i get a lot of questions, what did it look like. i've said have you ever had a tic tac.

it looks like a little oblong but about size of a normal aircraft fuselage. it was white. it was sort of matte finish. it behaved in way we were surprised, unnerved yet accelerated or almost didn't accelerate. it sort of jumps from spot to spot and tumbled around in way that was unpredictable and so, again, my commanding officer he took an aggressive maneuver to engage with it. me being the wing man and also sort of uncomfortable and inexperienced. i said i've got high cover which means i'm going to hang out over here. i got your back but i'm not going to get involved too closely.

he turned with it and then it just disappeared. it zoomed out of the picture so fast we were scrambling on the radio. sort of losing our minds. >> you have given us a lot of thought and i'm sure you've been asked a gazillion times, what the you think it was? >> every time i'm asked, they say what was it. i'm not qualified to make that analysis. part of the reason i agreed to speak with you and on "60 minutes" the other night is i'm trying to reduce the stigma for other air crew so if they see something or when they see something, they'll say something and they will not feel embarrassed or ashamed to make the reports and they'll know,000 make the report and where to make the report and they will contribute to this data pool of information that we have so that those who are professional intelligence analysts and

scientists can look at that information that is collected and consolidated and they can make some really sound reasonable, rational conclusions. no matter what you size you are of the ufo, which i'm just learning about now, shout out to my new friends on hashtag ufo twitter. i'm fascinated with their fascination. hard core conspiracy theorists or debunkers. and religious fanatics. i don't understand them yet. there's all these different camps. they all want answers. they all p want know what it was. we can't do that if we're

attacking each other or shaming each other. we really have to cooperate and get more information, get more evidence so we can come to some sound conclusion. >> thank you so much. it's really fantasticing. >> thank you. more news coming up. how the house voted today on legislation aimed at curbing asian hate crime. details when we come back. oh, we can help with that. okay, imagine this... your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee... yeah i should've just led with that... with at&t business... you can pick the best plan for each employee and only pay for the features they need. keeping your oysters business growing

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