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you gotta see the game it's being played all around us and it's as bad as i've ever seen it. it feeds into literally every problem we face. the good news is we got one place that can make a huge change. thanks for watching. don lemon tonight with its star, d. lemon right now. >> you better get it right. >> i did. >> last night you messed it up. >> i did. are you sure? >> my mom is not happy. >> what did she say? >> she said chris messed up my show i'm not happy, he's getting a spanking when i see him. >> she said they're going to call it not cuomo's network. tonight. [ laughter ] >> that's every show on cnn as far as you're concerned, except for one. >> you're right. it's all around us. i was listening to a little bit of your program today and others. everyone -- a number of the callers who called in today were saying, i thought the craziness was over, i thought the madness was over. it is just beginning. post truth world.

post truth society. what do we do about that? >> the dangerous party is the out of power party in a two-party system because opposition is enough. >> uh-huh. >> see, this is the bad place we put ourselves with the disaffection, and the disrespect for the process. this is why we need more parties, frankly. while we're in this binary system, opposition is enough. mccarthy isn't going against his boy in mar-a-lago. >> no way. >> he's not going to investigate. >> i saw that message, shocker he is not supporting. >> you know how they always are whenever a muslim extremist does something, and it's not called terrorist right away? they're always upset. why don't you call it what it is? islamic terror. now they don't want to investigate anything unless it's antifa. when have you seen anyone investigated as a coefficient of those related. >> listen, i don't have the wackos on my show or the other conspiracy believers. when you hear folks say no way trump could have gotten to the

capitol. that's not true. >> why wouldn't someone believe that when the minority leader of the house of representatives is saying to them, if you don't look at these other ones. >> yeah. >> and they good on faux news over there, and they're talking about why pelosi won't investigate these other groups, why wouldn't they think that? >> yeah. or that someone's death could have been brought up from the stress of what happened to them at the capitol a day or so before. you think all of a sudden someone just had a stroke or died out of nowhere, a young, otherwise healthy person. >> it's everywhere. it is all a coefficient of paying fealty to the guy in florida. mar a copa the fraudy. >> i wish i had come up with that. >> hold on. we didn't do this. i didn't do this. i'm a republican. i didn't do this.

so the senate wants to look at their races. anyone who disagrees we want to look at your races. it's like liz cheney on the state level. you seen what happens in north carolina. they're completely justified, the video shows it. the video doesn't show it. by the way this black guy is a drug dealer, with an assault with deadly weapon in 1995, you know what i'm saying right. >> i know what you're saying, we all know what they're saying. we need more people. we need more arizona republicans to stand up all over the country. >> good for them. e it's not easy to do, don. >> it's time to move on from the big lie. it's just that, big lie is hurting all of us. i'm see you tomorrow sir. >> don lemon tonight, make your witness. i love you, sir. >> i love you more. i almost said it. you heard -- this is don lemon tonight. thank you for joining us. a night when the battle for democracy is raging on two fronts, this is live in washington, d.c. where republicans are trying to white wash the capitol insurrection, they're trying to stop a bipartisan commission from getting to the truth of what

happened on one of the darkest days in american history. don't go to arizona yet. don't send me your -- are you still talking about the insurrection? yes, and i'm going continue to talk about it. don't waste your finger energy don't waste your breath. don't waste your time. it's important. i'm gonna keep talking about it! and you know what, you're gonna pay attention to it, because you know it's wrong. okay. so save your energy. now i want to take you to arizona. that's where a sham audit of ballots in maricopa county, ballots that have already been counted over and over and over, a county joe biden won, is nothing but another effort to push this big lie, nothing but another effort. and you need to know it's being fought everywhere in between. everywhere the big lie flourishes is cultivated by the republican party of insurrection now, the big lie. don't say that's not us. those people don't represent us. yes, they do. you let them take over your

party. now you're the party of insurrection. that's who you are. and the party of big lie. fake election fraud. the top republican in the house trying to head off the january 6 commission before it's even begun. you scared, bro? kevin, what are you afraid of? huh? shed some light on the subject. let people know. you want all the ballots investigated? why not investigate what happened on january 6 if you want, as you say, transparency. sources are telling us that kevin mccarthy is worried about what the commission could uncover. yeah, well, of course. worried he'll be called as a witness. yep, he should be. and alienating everyone. well, you did it. and now after gop leadership told members to vote their conscience on the commission, now they're doing a complete 180, urging them to vote no. urging them to vote no. what if their conscious is not no? i thought you said vote your conscience, not no.

okay. so, that's your position, huh? that you can't be a republican and also defend democracy, you can't be a republican and vote your conscience. i guess conscience goes out of the window with a top republican in the house declares that he cannot support the legislation. well, he could. in fact, he would if he cared at all about the truth. if he cared at all about what happened on january 6 when bloodthirsty trump supporters, bloodthirsty trump insurrectionists beat police defending the capitol, hunted the halls for lawmakers, put up a gallows outside and chantd "hang mike pence." >> hang mike pence! hang mike pence! >> hmm. well, this is just another chapter in the long sordid saga

of republican hypocrisy and the craven evolution of the minority leader blatantly going along with the prevailing winds. never mind the truth. oh, wind's blowing that way. that's the way i'm going to go. kevin mccarthy got into a shouting match on january 6 with the then president, the former guy, who said well, kevin, i guess these people are more upset about the election than you are. mccarthy, as rioters were trying to break into his office through the windows firing back, who the f do you think you are talking to? except he said the actual word. just one week later, mccarthy saying this on the house floor -- >> the president bears responsibility for wednesday's attack on congress by mob rioters. he should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding. >> well, what ever happened to that guy? where is he? well, this happened. it was a complete about-face

days later when he was asked if trump provoked the rioters. here it is. >> i don't believe he provoked them. he listened to what they said at the rally. >> and then abject surrender to the disgrace. say it with me. twice impeached, one term former president. when mccarthy made a pilgrimage to mar-a-lago to kiss the ring, and later tried to completely rewrite history on the fox propaganda network no less, claiming trump agreed to help put a stop to the insurrection when we know what actually happened. >> i engaged in the idea of making sure we could stop what was going on inside the capitol at that moment in time. the president said he would help. [ laughter ] >> that's some good acting right there, right? look, we know what's going on here, you know. it's obvious. kevin mccarthy is facing a very real possibility of being

subpoenaed and asked a whole lot of questions about what happened on january 6 and that audience of one in mar-a-lago won't like that at all. i would say this is the galena park gop's moment of truth, except it's actually their, you can't handle the truth moment, remember, jack nicholson in a movie "a few good men". >> you can't handle the truth. >> hmm. well republicans can't handle the truth. so the top republican in the house sides with the big lie opposing the january 6 commission which shouldn't be any prize. remember this? >> president trump won this election. so everyone who is listening, do not be quiet. do not be silent about this. we cannot allow this to happen before our very eyes. >> this is -- there's got to be like two or three kevin mccarthys, right? whatever the clone didn't get the right update or something.

one of them is like a kevin mccarthy 10. the other is like an 8. the other one is an x or that would be a 10. one of them didn't get the update so it keeps repeating one thing and the other keeps repeating the other and the other keeps repeating the other thing. but regardless, there it is. the big lie. the big lie that spawned the insurrection that kevin mccarthy is trying to sweep under the rug tonight. trying to white wash what we saw with our own eyes. you saw it. and you heard it with your owner's. how many times do i have to say it? and they know it's true. they know it's true. republicans know it's true. yet they keep throwing more lies at the wall. they're hoping it will stick. remember like grandma used to do with the spaghetti. is the pasta ready, throw it against the wall. let's see if it sticks. you know, the rioter, they were just like tourists. oh, no, they were antifa. they were black lives matter.

[ laughter ] okay, look. you saw that video. did you see any black people? did you see -- you know. black lives matter. white lies matter too. those are all lies. remember what one of the american heroes who fought back the rioters officer harry dunne told me some republican lawmakers and even the former president are trying to rewrite history saying the riots weren't that bad and the rioters were actually antifa. i know you have said this isn't political for you, but how do you respond to them twisting the truth like that? >> it's hurtful. it's hurtful and it's kind of like a slap in the face.

without even asking us or talking to us about what we went through. >> and then officer michael fanone who was dragged down the capitol steps by the mob, tased with his own weapon. >> i'm not a politician. i'm not an elected official. i don't expect anybody to give two shits about my opinions, but i will say this. you know, those are lies. and peddling that bullshit is an assault on every officer that fought to defend the capitol. it's disgraceful. >> even a friend of qanon congresswoman jewish space laser marjorie taylor greene, a friend who was there on january 6 said it wasn't antifa or black lives matter, that it was trump supporters. >> we were all there. it was not antifa.

it was not blm. it was trump supporters that did that yesterday. i'm the first to admit it. being one myself. >> like i said, white lies. l lies, l-i-e-s, not lives. the truth is was trump supporters who rioted at the capitol but like i said republicans can't handle the mitch mcconnell yeah, hypocrisy bunch. >> there's no question. done. that sprump practice -- president trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. no question about it. the people who stormed this building believed they were acting on the wishes and instructions of a president.

and having that belief was a foreseeable consequence of the growing crescendo of false statements, conspiracy theories and reckless hyperbole, which the defeated president kept shouting into the largest megaphone on planet earth. >> i mean that was then, but days later, he was all sure, i'd support him. >> if the president was the party's nominee, would you support him? >> the nominee of the party, absolutely. >> i -- okay. now he and mccarthy are both being threatened tonight by their boss, as chris calls him, the fraud father.

i wish i came up with that, that's a good one, chris. there are a handful of republicans willing to stand up for the truth, a handful. lisa murkowski says trump should testify. >> do you think president trump should talk to this commission to detail what happened that day? >> if you put together a commission that is focused on the events of january 6, i think he's obviously a very key individual. >> adam kinzinger said he will vote for the january 6 commission, not to mention liz cheney, who got thrown under the bus for taking a stand for the truth. and meanwhile, in arizona, the audit that has been a three-ring circus from the beginning. it's been more than three rings. including searching for bamboo in some of the ballots on the conspiracy theory that ballots were being flown in from asia. that's why i say more than a three-ring circus if there is such a thing.

that ought to reach new depths of ridiculous tonight. after complaining a key database had been deleted from maricopa county's election servers, a claim trumpeted by the former president, auditors basically said never mind. >> do you still need to get that database from the county or did that rebuilding or recovery that you did, is that -- does that have the information you currently need for that database? >> i have the information i need from the recovery efforts of the data. >> i'm gonna talk to the head of the county's election department later in this show. that is happening as the president of the united states, joe biden is pushing ahead with his agenda and trying to make a deal with republicans. >> we believe we can find a bipartisan deal on

infrastructure. one thing clear. we'll compromise, but doing nothing is not an option. doing nothing is not an option. >> transportation secretary pete buttigieg met with republicans today to talk infrastructure. he weighs in later in the show. but how do you hammer out a deal -- seriously, how do you hammer out a deal with the party that is pushing the big lie in arizona and trying to whitewash the insurrection on capitol hill? how do you do that? how do you do it? because that's the gop today. own it. all of you. we also have some breaking news tonight that i know you want to hear about new york state's investigation of trump, the trump organization. we're going to tell you what it all means for the former president. lots more, next. as your busi, the united states postal service is changing with it. with e-commerce that runs at the speed of now. next day and two-day shipping nationwide, and returns right from the doorstep. it's a whole new world out there. let's not keep it waiting. tonight, i'll be eating a pork banh mi

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all right, we're back now. we're talking about the big lie and digging into what exactly the republican party is, what are they so afraid of, that will be revealed by an investigation that happened january 6th. but as we do that, we have gotten some breaking news here into cnn, and it's on new york state's investigation of the trump organization. so let's explain what all of this means now. i want to bring in cnn's cara skanell and elie honig to guide us through. this good evening to both of you. cara, give us the latest. what do we know? walk us through. this. >> sure, don. we just learned tonight the new york attorney general letitia james has joined an investigation by the manhattan

district attorney's office led by cy vance. james' office has been conducting a civil investigation into the trump organization since 2019, but now their office has turned part of their investigation criminal. here is what a spokesperson for the ag's office told my colleague sonya miji. we're going frontal system the trump organization that our investigation is no longer purely civil in measure. now a source familiar with the investigation tells me that certain members of the new york arkansas's team that are highly knowledgeable of the trump organization that had been digging into this company for some time are now teaming up with the investigators in vance's office. what this sig nighs is they are bringing this additional knowledge that they had into the inquiry with vance. and both offices have been investigating broad ranges of conduct involving the trump organization looking into whether any banks were misled, whether any insurance companies were misled, whether there were

any executives that committed tax fraud. now the d.a.'s office is teaming up with the ag's office which adds even more people to work on this investigation, and people who really know a lot about it and who have been digging into it for some time. a lawyer for the trump organization declined to comment. they previously called these investigations a witch hunt and have said that letitia james' office has been politically motivated. >> basically, they're combining resources, which i would imagine, correct me if i'm wrong not good news for the trump organization. tell me if i'm asking the right question here. explain the significance here. what does it mean that this has moved from a civil to criminal in nature. am i correct with that question? is that's what's happened? >> yeah, don. so the first thing this tell smes the new york attorney general's office saw something. they saw something that has led them to expand and change the nature of their investigation, because going back to 2019, as cara said, the new york attorney general has been in the civil

lane, not criminal while the d.a. has been in the criminal lane. now the ag has seen something that's prompted them to make a decision to say now we need to cross over and join you, d.a.'s office, on the criminal side. that's a big move. we don't know what it is. we don't know what it was. i want to say this about the new york attorney general's office. i've worked with them on various cases. they don't do every kind of crime. if they have one thing they specialize in above all others, it's complex frauds. that's what they pride themselves on. that's sort of right in their wheel house. so, yeah, this is a significant development. it's certainly not good news for the trump organization. >> the reason i asked, the response that kara said we informed the trump investigation that our investigation into the organization is no longer purely civil in nature. so that means it's civil in nature, but also criminal. they just added this criminal capacity on top of it. who are we talking about here, elie when we talk about the trump organization?

>> well, the trump organization likes to put out this veneer that it's this massive corporation. but really, if you hear people who are part of it testify and talk about it, michael cohen has talked about it publicly. it's really just a mom and pop shop. it's run by donald trump, by some of his children, by eric trump. and wesselberg is obviously a key guy. he is the financial gatekeeper. this is a financial case. we know that the d.a. has been pressuring wesselberg through his family members, whether appear to be trying to do to flip wesselberg. and they believe he has the keys to the kingdom. it's really a pretty small shop. and they're going to be under an intense spotlight now. >> thank you very much. we'll continue on top of this as we get new information into cnn. the gop is trying to stop a bipartisan commission from getting to the truth of what happened, one of the darkest days in american history. what are republicans trying to

hide? what are they trying to wash wash away? >> we have some members of congress who are basically saying what we all experienced didn't happen. i mean, enough.

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so the house votes tomorrow on creating an independent commission on investigating the deadly riot. but the gop leader kevin mccarthy is trying to derail it, saying today that he opposed -- he's opposed to the bipartisan commission. and the number two gop official in the house, congressman steve scalise going along with mccarthy and urging fellow republicans to vote against it. there is a lot to discuss with cnn's senior commentator john kasich, the former republican governor of ohio. good evening, sir. so let's get into it. >> i'm very disappointed, don. i'm very, very disappointed. >> good evening. how are you? >> you had your inaugural show, and i wasn't good enough to make it. this is going to be tough to recover from this. just want you to know. >> my mom said, you'll be all right. thank you. it's good to see you. let's talk about what's going on. this by kevin mccarthy on this commission. this is what our jamie gangel is

reporting. sources close to the situation are telling her he is too scared. he is worried it could hurt his chances of becoming speaker. and number two, the two republican steve scalise who first says vote your conscience and now is saying no, wait, vote against it. is this -- is this a panic about this commission? what is it? can you help explain? >> you know, i think jamie did good reporting there. sources tell me that he's wo worried that he would be called to testify, and then he would have to say what his conversation with donald trump was about. and he's probably worried that he will erase those goodwill trips, or trip that he took down to mar-a-lago. i don't know. but look, don, they've been investigating things forever. 9/11. remember when the marines barracks were blown up in lebanon. we did an investigation. iran/contra, there was an investigation. this is just normal to take a look at after action, figure out what happened. this should just be a unanimous

vote. check it out, to look into it. it's a bipartisan group. it's got equal numbers on both sides. and it's ridiculous. it's ridiculous. >> okay. all right. and i think this is a very fair question then, because of what's happening. so john, it appears that the official position of the gop is that -- of the gop is that members can't defend democracy or vote a vote of conscience. they have to do what the leadership tells them, or the person who's sitting down at a golf club doing like, you know, wedding shout-outs. >> well, they're not going to get liz cheney's vote. and they're not getting kinzinger's vote. i've been saying all along at some point the dam breaks. you know, these are people who go back to their districts. they're important people back there. and then they go down there and think they have to take orders from somebody? this has been a big change in

the congress since i left which is the leadership sort of tells you what you're going to do. you know how long i would last down there, don? you and i together? it wouldn't work. because i never took any orders. i was never asked to take any orders. if somebody told me to take an order, what do you think i would have told them? >> i know. >> this is so foreign to me. it's foreign to me. >> the difference between us is you would go. i wouldn't even get on the plane. i would be john, have fun. honestly, would it have been better to let the commission play out and at least have some input? >> of course. >> because if it goes nowhere, democrats will investigate and speaker pelosi will be calling the shots. >> don, this is one of those things we're always going to remember where we were on january 6. >> that's right. >> i remember exactly where i was, who i was with, and i watched it on my friend's phone. i called my wife. this is an attack on a precious institution of the united states

government. it's unbelievable. and we all remember where we were. and they want to check it out. they want to investigate it and learn from it. and they're saying that you should vote no? no for what reason? the reasons are all silly. the republicans were all lined up. we're going have to watch that vote. i'm anxious to see how that vote turns out. i'm anxious to see how republicans in the state of ohio are going to vote on that, because we're watching. we're watching. you may have your day today, but you won't have it tomorrow, perhaps. just watch. >> we're all sitting around. we're preparing for the certification of the election, remember? everyone was on standby. it was a big political day and night in america. and i just remember watching my colleagues on television earlier saying here it is. this is what we've been saying could happen if you continue to lie to people. the gop rep john katko who cut the deal at mccarthy's behest, got him nearly everything he wanted, a signoff from both

sides for subpoenas. so what is up with mccarthy? is he trying to cover up his own involvement in spreading the lie and his phone call with trump? is he afraid of testifying? i know i'm asking a lot of questions. you don't have a crystal ball. you can't read minds. maybe you have some insight into what's happening now on capitol hill. >> i think jamie hit on it, that what mccarthy is afraid of with this thing is that they will ask him to talk about his private conversation with trump. and then he is going to have to face up to the facts that things he said right after january 6 and then kind of changing the story and all that. and so i think that's what's behind it, don. but i want to go back to just one thing about january 6. and i still have that image in my mind about the break into the capitol through that window. and there is actually some members of the congress that have said oh, it's just a normal tourist visit. i guess they think that if they keep saying it never happened,

it wasn't so. the problem is it did happen, and we know it. and it injured our country. and frankly, don, i'm pleased to say that there are some republicans that are not going to go along with this nonsense, and we're going watch the vote tomorrow. >> let me ask you this. let me ask you this. so if republicans honestly believe, if they honestly believe that this was a normal tourist day, right, that it wasn't a big deal, and that there were hugs and kisses and whatever, and all these patriots, then -- and they really don't think that trump helped to spark this insurrection. if he led these people there, then why don't they want to investigate it if they believe that they're innocent of all of this, then why not investigate all this so they can be proven correct? >> don, they don't believe that. they don't believe that the election was stolen. they don't believe any of this nonsense. >> yeah. >> and that's what's so stunning, that they would continue to say that this didn't

happen and that happened, the other thing happened when they know. if you were to get them alone and ask them, do you think really that the election was stolen? they would tell you no. if you were to ask them privately, do you realize what happened on january 6? wasn't it horrible? they would say yes. and so somehow, they've been able to check their conscience at the door and hopefully tomorrow there won't be that many that will check their conscience at the door and they'll go in and vote for this commission, and we'll just figure out where this goes. but i believe these people know the reality. and for some reason, that's the hardest thing to understand. for some reason, they're not willing to act on what they know to be the truth. what a lesson for our kids. >> yeah. >> what a lesson for their kids. >> john kasich, look at that. you were the 21st guest on the don lemon tonight show. >> oh my god, 20? i mean. >> i'm joking. i'm making up a number. thank you, john. >> i used to be important, you know. i sweep the streets i used to

own. col coldplay. you will some day too, don lemon. >> you don't even know what i'm saying. that's a whole another thing. thank you, sir, mr. cold play. republicans doubling down on conspiracies and misinformation. stunts over substance. what is it doing to our democracy? jon meacham weighs in. he is next. ♪ ♪ life can be a lot to handle. ♪this magic moment,♪ but there's plenty of magic in all that chaos. ♪so different and so new.♪ ♪was like any other...♪

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the assault on truth in this country taking another turn as gop leader kevin mccarthy tries to bring down the january 6

commission before it even gets started. it's the latest attempt to whitewash the insurrectionists. some republicans outright deny the reality of what happened. joining me now is presidential historian jon meacham, the host of the podcast fate of fact. it's good to see you, sir. thanks for joining. so it has been a little more than four months since the insurrection, the worst attack on our capitol this country has ever seen at the hands of americans. and republicans and democrats can't even agree on an investigation into what happened. what does that say about our democracy, jon? >> that we're at an inflection point, a dangerous one. you know, the confederate army never got as far as the insurrectionists did on january 6. there was talk about disrupting the electoral count in 1861 when lincoln became president, and they never got that far. they never got that far during the war when washington was

under siege. and yet what did we see? we saw a confederate flag being carried through the united states capitol. fundamentally, a democracy depends on our dispositions of heart and mind, our capacity to recognize the rule of law, to lose gracefully when in fact we do lose. and then stay within the constitutional buoys, the constitutional guardrail, pick your metaphor, and go and fight another day. and what we're seeing now really for the first time since reconstruction in my opinion is a huge chunk of the enfranchised country opting out of a reality-based world and pursuing their own vision, their own wilderness of mirrors in a way that is almost entirely about the will to power. it's not about prosperity. it's not about common purpose. it's not about the preservation of democracy.

it's about the marshalling and maintenance of an individual party's power and place in a system that they themselves are in fact undermining. >> do you see -- i'm asking this question because i don't know if i see this on -- i see the danger here. and i mean, a real danger. i don't know if i see the urgency on the part of democrats. i don't see the fight. do you believe democrats realize what they are up against right now, that this isn't just an uglier, dumber version of politics as usual, that this is a really -- as you say, an inflection point for our country? if people continue to can't believe, don't know what to believe, or their voting rights are restricted, do you think democrats know? and are they fighting hard enough to try to preserve the republic? >> it's a great question. the democrats i've talked to do understand it. i think they're in a tactical

tension, which is i think what the administration is trying to do is deliver results in order to have a kind of infrastructure on which to defend democracy against autocracy, which president biden talks about autocracy in terms of china and the russia oligarchs. it's also about mar-a-lago, right? the republican party, which is functionally as constituted and run at the moment, has become an autocratic vehicle for a single person. so the party of eisenhower, reagan, the bushes, the nixon who went to china, whatever you want to say about those folks, and there is a lot to say, they govern in coherent ways that would be recognizable to their democrat -- their democratic colleagues, upper case d, in realtime. this is not that. and i think that i understand

that the democratic party broadly put i think is following the old napoleonic adage which is never get in the way of an enemy when they're busy destroying themselves. the problem there, which you put your finger on is they may destroy themselves, but they could also bring down the constitution. and by the way, five years ago, even three years ago, hell, maybe a year ago, i'm not sure i would have said that. but part of living in a democracy, part of using reason is having the ability to observe facts and shift your opinions if you think the facts support that. it's the entire project of enlightenment. it's the entire project of evolution. if you want to go at it from the other perspective, god gave humankind brains for a reason. and that brain is supposed to be able to address reality as it

presents itself and not make us prisoners of opinions that go unexamined. and i think the central question for us is will the constitution itself, which withstood a civil war, withstood vicious virulent, and often violent attacks at every point in 240 years, almost 250 years coming will that constitution be durable when so many people have decided that they will invent a reality as opposed to react and try to change a reality. >> hmm. you've given us a lot to think about, jon. you also made me realize just how old i am. it's like, wait a minute. it's 50 years. i remember being in elementary school celebrating the buy centennial. why did you have to do that to me, jon? >> sorry. >> thank you, sir. it's always a pleasure. i'll see you soon.

i appreciate you joining. so he has millions of listeners, so why is he complaining that he and other straight white men aren't going to be allowed to talk anymore? yeah, joe rogan said that. that's next.

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take this, everyone. top podcast host joe rogan says that woke culture's end goal is to silence and confine straight white men. he said it on his podcast to millions of listeners. >> you can never be woke enough. that's the problem. it keeps going. it keeps going further and further and further down the line. and if you get to the point where you capitulate, where you agree to all these demands, it will eventually get to straight white men are not allowed to talk. >> right. >> because it's your privilege to express yourself when other people of color have been silenced throughout history. it will be you're not allowed to go outside because so many people were imprisoned for so many years. i'm not joking. >> i know. i know. >> it really will get there. >> okay. look, there is an important debate right now about cancel culture and wokeness, questions about what either term even means and what happens if it

goes too far. there are legitimate questions about that. but acknowledging the oppression, discrimination, or differences of others does not silence anyone else, let alone lock them up. for years now, joe rogan has had a massive podcasting platform, hugely influential, though he has used it at times to interview controversial figures like conspiracy nut alex jones, the guy infamous for saying that the sandy hook school shooting was a hoax. he says a lot of things, but he also has a history of admitting when he is wrong. so last month he waded into this anti-vaccine narrative but later offered an explanation for his statements after the backlash, then just said, you know what? what i did was wrong. he did say that. in the fall, he apologized after spreading misinformation about last year's west coast virus. so my point is no matter what he has said, he has not been silenced.

he has a huge megaphone with millions of loyal listeners, all of whom, every single day, say whatever they want. joe rogan is part of the conversation. there's a lot i can go on about, especially about straight white men. you're aggrieved now? okay. no one is stopping joe rogan or any other straight white man from expressing themselves, period. president biden visiting for today trying to sell his infrastructure plan, but is there even a remote chance the gop will get onboard. i am going to ask someone who is part of the negotiations. secretary pete buttigieg, next.

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