hell is going on in these united states of america. what the hell is wrong with us? president biden has urged congress to take immediate action on gun legislation. the news continues. let's handing it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." >> i am chris cuomo and welcome to "prime time." i have a very important show and tell for you at the end of the show. 90 days. new deadline set by president biden for the united states intelligence agencies and all the assets to get answers on the genesis of covid-19. what's the problem? the problem is china won't comply in the effort. so how can we discover if they don't let the world have a good look? nevertheless, potus has ordered intelligence to redouble efforts to collect information, suggesting that intel has coalesced around two likely scenarios but hasn't reached a definitive conclusion and there's not enough sufficient

information to assess one to be more likely than the other. that takes us back to the china point. however, there's also a political point here. the two. covid was passed from animals to humans, or it originated from a lab accident. now, the second is a newer notion, okay? the government had not been open to the lab theory. that is why it is so politically charged. it was dismissed as a conspiracy early on. but now is under serious consideration. why? an intel report determined several researchers at the wuhan institute of virology were hospitalized in november of 2019 the month before china reported its first covid case. why is it politically charged? because trumpers who were complicit in playing down the pandemic reality in america are now seeing more interest in the

china lab theory as some kind of vindication. enough to play "i told you so" with fauci. >> why did you dismiss the lab leak theory as credible? >> i didn't dismiss anything. i just said it's a high likelihood that this is a natural occurrence from the environment of an animal reservoir that we have not yet identified. no one knows, including me, 100% what the origin is, is the reason why we're in favor of further investigation. >> tony fauci answers the questions. why wouldn't you, senator rubio? why don't you come on and answer why did you ignore president trump making light of the pandemic when all the science was against it? why did you ignore when president trump was saying that it was a hoax, it was just a bad flu? that it was too much testing that had people worried? where was your concern then? if you were so confident, why did you fail along with trump to

get inspectors on the ground in china in the early days of this pandemic if it was such a real thing for you, so not to be ignored? we know the answer. because at first you were all about praising china, certainly trump was. here's his tweet. china has been working very hard to contain the coronavirus. the united states greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. it will all work out well. so what changed? only when trump's pandemic hoax, just a bad flu, too much testing is the problem bs failed and we were way behind on the fight against a deadly pandemic, they needed to distract. china a convenient target. notice, you never hear from any of these guys that trump cut cdc staff in china pre-covid by two-thirds. so guess what? we were more reliant on them for information. so when he or his mini mes now

say they want credit for being right on china all along, remember the fact that they were wrong before they were right on china and absolutely on what had to do about the pandemic. even still. there's no justifying trump's china virus slurs that fed more violence here without any pushback from the concerned citizen you just saw there or any of the other trumpers. they are now also blaming biden for shutting down a trump administration effort to vet the wuhan lab theory over concerns about politicized evidence. so how will biden do better than what the trump posse wanted? can any of this be free from politics? and in the mess of this division, will we ever know how covid-19 was born? let's turn to a better mind. jamie metzel, advisor to the w.h.o., world health organization. he's been pressing for answers on covid's origins. also a former national security

official. good to see you, sir. >> hey, chris. >> right move for biden to close down the trump probe? >> no, obviously. i listened to your intro, chris. we need to -- i'm a democrat, i'm a progressive. as you said, i've been on this case from very early on. we're going to get stuck in the he said/she said. definitely both parties made mistakes. we can go back and have a lot of things maybe both parties aren't proud of. right now we can agree that there's a big problem. the biggest problem is china, which has been engaged in a massive cover-up since day one involving destroying samples and hiding records, imprisoning people asking questions, a gag order on scientists. so i think it's okay for us as even democrats, progressives, to say maybe the republicans, maybe even trump could have been right on one narrow thing. it's important saying china has to be held accountable and we have to hold ourselves accountable. so it's really important, a big

step forward today. the biden move to call for a full investigation by u.s. intelligence, i think that's great and there's a lot more work that also needs to be done. >> i want you to explain why it was wrong for him to cancel the probe. was he just replacing one of trump's with his own? >> well, when the biden team came to the state department, like with any new administration, there are a lot of decisions that needed to be made. there was this probe that was looking into the origins of the pandemic. as a matter of fact, i spoke earlier today with one of the leaders. i think there was just some administrative decisions that were made and this process was shut down. i think it was a mistake. that doesn't mean that everything should be condemned because i think we need to be really dig. there was group think across the board on the origins of covid and that's why and so many others have been doing so much work to say, hey, wait a second, let's not accept that we know

answers to questions that are still outstanding. we can't say so, so definitively its natural origin. >> i think they cancelled it because that's what you do when you come in and it was a mistake. they didn't think they made a bad move and now they're trying to play catch-up. >> i agree. >> trump was not early on the get after china. he didn't go after china until he was getting blamed for the virus here. i just put up the tweet. he was praising china for containing the virus. so it can't be true that he thought china was responsible for weaponizing it, unleashing it on us and at the same time fighting it. so he was a late comer to that idea and he had cut cdc staff in china by two-thirds prior to covid so we didn't have as many eyes as we used to have on the grounding. and now senator marco rubio, do you remember him saying let's get investigators on the ground at the beginning of covid for china? >> you're absolutely right. there were a lot of things that

trump did wrong, and i was a massive critic at that time and even today of all of those things. frankly, that's why whatever the origins of the pandemic, there's a big reason why we've had so many deaths here in the united states relative to -- >> i'm just saying they had a year to act on their china suspicions. if they want to say they are so right, they had a year to do something about it. that's what i'm saying. >> let's say trump was late. he was earlier than a lot of other people. people like senator tom cotton. again, i'm a democrat, i'm a progressive, but tom cotton had some pretty strong statements early on. and i think again, whoever we are, democrats, republicans, whatever, we're ultimately all americans, we're all humans, and we should try to evaluate our own behavior and the data as best we can. so i think it's okay for us to say that on a lot of things last year trump and the republicans got it wrong but they were earlier than the democrats, maybe for all the wrong reasons

and maybe doing it a nasty way in calling out china. >> they should have just searched then and pushed to get on the ground. they should have done something rather than weaponizing it politically as an offset to what they weren't doing in this country. so now here we are -- >> chris, if i can just add one thing because that's a really important point. last year when president trump was making all the noise about china is the problem and w.h.o. is the problem, china actually took control of a process at the world health assembly, which is the governing body of the w.h.o., and australia had a pretty strong resolution that they were supporting. china turned that into something that was very supportive of china and really let china off the hook. the trump administration, which was saying a lot about the origins of the pandemic and blaming china, blaming the w.h.o., they in fact didn't do the hard work at the world health assembly to try to set up the kind of full investigation

that we need and that's why it's so significant that president biden now is calling for the kind of action that's required. >> now, you had pompeo at the time saying he had seen clear and convincing proof that it was in the lab. where is the proof? you have the same intel people now. they just said redouble their efforts. don't they already have the proof that pompeo said that he saw? and secondly, if china doesn't want to comply, isn't this a dead letter? >> so when we go back and listen to exactly what pompeo said, there's always a little word that i believe. nobody at least in our government, as far as i know, has seen conclusive proof. there is no smoking gun. there are allegations. i personally believe that the case for a lab leak incident as a possible origin is much stronger than the other possibilities. >> will you ever know if china doesn't let you in and doesn't help and hasn't already destroyed the evidence? >> so the answer to that -- yes, so the answer is we don't know. certainly it's much better if

china gives us full access to all the record samples and personnel that they're hiding. it's unlikely. but over the last year, i have worked with a group of about two or three dozen experts, leading scientists from around the world, and very quietly we and people in our group have been gathering information, including about the mine in southern china where a lot of these viral samples came from that were brought to wuhan, a lot of other things. yes, we'd love to have access to china, but there's a huge amount that we can do. that's why the position of the united states and the world community should be that we would like to have a full investigation with full access to china. if china is not onboard, we need to set up a parallel process with all of the resources that we have. let's have public hearings. let's get to the bottom of this, because the last thing we can do is live through the world's worst pandemic in a century and just say, oh, i guess we should stop looking to understand why this started and how we can

address our greatest vulnerabilities. >> agreed. jamie metzl, to be continued. there was another mass shooting today. i'm going to be honest with you, it wasn't a no-brainer that we'd cover it. you know why? because the truth. do you care? i'm not saying that you wanted eight more precious lives taken or that you like it. i'm not saying that. i'm saying something else. are you numb to what happened in san jose, california? do you have compassion fatigue? do you believe, look, nothing is ever going to happen, this is who we are now, this is how it is. i think the answer is yes. and i don't think there's any chance for bipartisan action on the gun crisis. i think it's only going to get worse. certainly the numbers show that and i can make that case for you right after this break. van jones says i'm wrong and there can be progress. how? next.

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you probably heard that we had eight people killed this morning in a mass shooting on the job at a public transit rail yard in san jose, california. investigators don't know the gunman's motive yet, but they do know that he worked for the rail yard. he went to the rail yard to commit this act of violence, murder, and he knew the victims well. of the eight people who were dead, six bodies remain inside two of the transit buildings. the crime scene is still being processed after police spent hours sweeping the area for explosives after some devices were found. this tragedy, this senseless violence, what can i say? what can i say that you haven't heard? what could i tell you that would make any difference? nothing has changed. and it doesn't matter what i bring up to you. here, you want some statistics? bring in van jones, he knows the stats.

gun violence in 2021. 7500 deaths. 200 plus mass shootings. i think this was the 232nd. there's a 23% increase over 2020. that's from the gun violence archive. and it's a little tricky because we don't keep real national statistics on that because we like to hide from problems. that's why we don't have national standards on what is equivalent to an abuse of force and use of force by police and we don't have uniform reportings. we avoid what we don't like. and yes, governor gavin newsom i thought was particularly passionate today after meeting with the families and saying what the hell is wrong with us? what is going on? and yet he knows the answer, van, so do you. you've got 18% of this country owns about half of congress. they are vestigal when it comes to their romanticism of the gun.

they control the political power, they don't want it to change and it will not. your take. >> first of all, it's horrible. you said that you're afraid that people are getting numb. i think that people are getting numb. i think people are starting to give up and accept the unacceptable. and i think it's important for those of us who have platforms and have opportunities to push back against that to do so and i appreciate the opportunity. first of all, if you listen to the right-wing media, they're talking about a rise in gun violence too. they ignore the mass shootings. they talk about this rise in street violence. and they're all about it. they talk about it, but they throw their hands up. it's just the liberals making the cops miserable, but they're talking about violence. listen to progressives. we're talking about the mass shootings. but we throw our hands up, nothing you can do and nra, et cetera. is it time for biden to call for a national summit on violence?

pull the right wing in because they're on the hook, they're saying they're concerned about all this street violence. pull the progressives in because we're concerned about the mass shootings. is there anything that could actually bring us together? for instance, i think what may be happening here is a mental health implosion coming out of all these covid deaths that have been, frankly, ungrieved, all the disruption that happened to us through the lockdowns and everything else. there's something happening here that we are not talking about as americans. but both sides are acknowledging too many funerals, too much death, too much violence. so i do think that there's a possibility to try to bring us together with the broader topic of violence to see if we can finding any way forward. >> well, couple things. one, you've got the slippery slope. you've had the right say it's all about mental health. just get rid of these crazy folks and you don't have a problem. they didn't do anything about it. red flag laws. i think they would be an excellent tool but they did that to not deal with access because in the heller case in 2008 or

whenever it was, they said that was the case by the way, van knows all of that, that was the case that found that the second amendment involved an individual right to self-defense. it had never been found before in the history of the jurisprudence on the second amendment. it was seen as a collective right for a militia. not untilantonin scalia did that decision. they say mental health, mental health. people that are mentally ill more likely to be victims of gun violence than perpetrators. also you have a suicidality problem that is way bigger than any kinds of mass shootings we deal with and any gangland shootings that we deal with, but it doesn't qualify as violence, van. when you kill yourself, although it is perversely a crime, it does not count as a violent act that we're afraid of in society. how do we change that? how do we get it right on mental health? instead of demonizing them,

motivating change from a collective concern? >> well, everything that you just said i agree with 100%. i'm trying to solve a different problem, which is the problem of despair and cynicism and resignation on both sides while looking at funerals of americans. that is dangerous. that is new. that is frightening. and i think that biden might be well positioned -- in other words, i think -- listen, let's acknowledge you've got people in politics who just score points and don't care. i think you've got a lot of people in america who do care. they just don't know what to do and feel frustrated. i wonder what if you had some of the black grand mamas who are burying too many folks in the hood in our communities, what if you had some of these people who -- you've got a lot of police officers concerned about the rise in crime. what about the people who are concerned about these mass shootings and the surviving family members of that. what if they are all at the white house talking to each other and now we're all talking to each other, not about each other. there might be something that

emerges. i don't have a magic answer, neither do you. but i believe the magic comes out of dialogue. we are not even talking to each other, we are talking about each other about a rise in american death. that is dangerous. so i appreciate you continuing -- i know a lot of people, why are we going to show another mass shooting? we have to do it. and also there are options when both sides are talking about this rise in violence. let's talk to each other, not about each other, maybe we can finding a way forward. >> i'll tell you what else. ordinarily when i do these things, the first time i've ever not done it, i had a run where i had been to every mass shooting when i was at abc news and we started to cover them. i was on in the morning on the anchor show at the time. you talk to the families, i'm sorry for your loss. i'm not doing it. i'm not going to politicize their loss and make them the latest string of players in a game that they desperately now want to influence because they

don't want this to happen to another family and they'll get nowhere. so i'm not going to do that. i'm not going to put them in this mix. of course everybody feels for those who lose people no matter what the reason but they deserve better than being thrown into a game that nobody can win. van jones, be well, my brother, and i appreciate you for believing. that's why i have you on, make them believe because i can't. democrats, do you think they're going to push hard for gun control ahead of the upcoming midterms? i'm not a sicynic. i'm not even a skeptic. i'm a realist. why are the democrats in terms of the long game here? you know why they want to get things done. you know why they're worried about manchin and the filibuster. if they don't get big things done, what happens in the midterms? how are they doing in that campaign? insight from two legendary democratic strategists almost guaranteed to not like half of what i say, axelrod and carville, next.

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history has shown that the president's party often performs poorly in the midterms. why? balance. balance. we like the balance. we don't trust anybody having too much power. republicans are right in there. they only need to pick up a handful of house seats. remember, biden won by a significant margin, but the democrats did not have a great race, or just one senate seat next year to usher in divided government. on the other hand, dems have never faced a fractured gop and its conspiracy lovers like this. is what they're doing enough to keep them in power in 2022? veteran political strategists, david axelrod and james carville, both join me now. my brothers, good to see you. quick show of hands, do either of you feel that the dems are right on target?

either of you? are either of you loving it? hands down, hands down. good. we'll start with you, axe, what's the state of play and why don't you like it and why do you like it? >> look, structurally democrats have a big challenge in 2022 because of the census, because of redistricting, because of the historical forces that you mentioned and because of the slim margin that they have in the house right now. you'd have to bet right now on republicans taking the house as fractured and as absurd as they are. you know, there are structural reasons why they have an advantage going into that election. democrats have profited from joe biden, and i think there's a great sense of relief among many americans that a decent, rational human being is in charge of the country now. and i think that rebounds to the party in power when the president is popular, but i

don't think i'd be at all s sanguine with all of this. although he's accomplished a great deal relative to the virus and the economy, the next pieces are going to get harder. as we've seen events intrude, the hope is from the democratic side is that the economy is such that there's a tide in his favor in 2022 and in favor of democrats, but you wouldn't bet on it right now. >> the ragin cajun had a sly smile on his face for a moment. i can't believe you survived after going after cancel culture and everybody being woke on the left but you did. so what does that mean that you survived and how do you see it? >> i just had something that i thought was necessary to say and i said it. i hope it has some impact because, you know, the main thing is the people -- we want to communicate to our own people. we have to speak the language they speak and they don't use this kind of language. if we want to be effective

communicators we have to do that. any time i can be on with david axelrod, and he's right we have to win the house vote. but our problem is we have too much growth and too many vaccines. so there is -- you know, there's significant headwinds there. but if we're smart and biden's approval stays like it is, like 54%, then you're in the hunt. >> you're in the hunt, david, but are you as good at the game? look at how mcconnell keeps them in line. look at how the house knows how to play away from its difficulties and ignore and have a position of opposition and in a democracy with division is the right way to play. how do you win? >> well, first of all, let me just say that right back at carville, who is one of the most -- >> oh, with the lovefest.

i'm glad you like each other. you're both going to be on a losing team. this may be the last time i have you on together. go ahead. go ahead, axe. >> no, no, no. there is a real problem, i think. democratic strength is growing in the aggregate. democrats have won seven out of the eight national elections, popular vote. but that's not how we elect presidents. every state has two senators. as we become more and more of a metropolitan party and we write off large segments of the country, donald trump won 80% of the counties in this country. what james said is really, really important. biden understands that a lot of democrats don't, he understands that people who work with their hands, people who work with their back, people who farm are entitled to the same dignity as

people who sit in front of a computer screen all day. but that's not always the attitude of the democratic party. i think there's a price to be paid for that. joe biden won by 7 million votes nationally but he really won by 44,000 votes in three states. and if those states had gone another way, if he had -- 45,000 votes had gone trump's way this would have been thrown to the house and under the rules trump would have been re-elected president. that's how close the election really was. so democrats can't be sanguine. >> carville, give us the last word on the one thing democrats should be saying to white americans that they're not. >> i think speak plain english and just what david said. if the nature of being a democrat is you respect everybody and particularly respect people's labor. so often democrats come across with this metropolitan arrogance, urban smugness that people feel. and it hurts us. and by the way, it even hurts us

with people that live in cities that don't speak this jargony faculty language. the people in south chicago do not speak the same language that the faculty at the university of chicago speaks. it's just that simple. we're democrats and we're trying to persuade people and we have to persuade a lot of them because you're right, 18% of the country elects 52 senators. and we have to be communicators and we have to take every chance to communicate as precious and communicate with everybody and don't be so smug about everything. >> last time i had jim on, axe, he said 95% of the republican districts that they win are white. over half the country is white. do you really want to have the majority of white people think the democratic party is against them, right or wrong, because that's how they're being boxed in. it should be an obvious problem to address. we'll see if they do. james carville, david axelrod, thank you, fellas. appreciate you. see you soon.

>> you bet. now, we have developments in the criminal probe against donald trump. i told you about them last night. a witness was just told to prepare to appear before a grand jury, reportedly convened in new york. so that means the reporting seems to be right. should trump be worried? have prosecutors already gotten someone in trump world to flip? we'll talk to a man who knows the players and has a good guess at the odds, next.

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former president trump now looking at a pair of criminal grand juries. pair? i thought it was just about the new york one. no, remember back in march the d.a. in atlanta impanelled one to look at trump's effort to overturn the election results, specifically his calls with local officials. could they be construed as criminal obstruction? unlikely. now we have this special grand jury, however, scheduled to meet for six months in new york. the focus there is on his business. and this is absolutely more serious business for trump. a subject few journalists know better than tim o'brien, author of "trump nation."

good to see you, brother. >> hi, christopher. >> let's go through the three things that trump should worry about here. number one, prison. why? >> well, because this is the first time in his 74 years, about to be 75 years, that he's been looking at the possibility of a criminal indictment and criminal charges and an orange jumpsuit. that is new in his world. he has nine lives. he has escaped rigorous investigations and two impeachments before. but this is a very -- this is an order of magnitude different than anything he's encountered before. >> and also in the last two trials, they were political. he had people there who were invested in making sure he got away with it and he had leverage to use against them. here we don't know that to be the case. >> and he was still president. >> yes, sir, absolutely, which had leverage on high. that takes us to the difference between fealty, to whether he

can really secure enough loyalty to stay out of water. that goes to the cfo and any other people with information about his knowledge of criminal wrongdoing. >> that's right, chris. it is a small network of people. the trump organization is not a complex fortune 500 company. this is a mom-and-pop shop. it's smaller than most grocery stores in terms of the number of people who work there. trump put his hands on everything of substance. so anything of substance that cy vance or tish james is looking at involves trump. allen weisselberg has gotten a lot of attention but there's people like jason greenblatt, the former in-house counsel of the trump organization, his administrative assistant, rona graph who handled emails for him and his children as well.

those are the people who have some of the closest proximity to trump's decision-making. i have to believe that cy vance has spoken to most of them if not all of them already. we know that weisselberg is the subject himself now of a criminal probe. >> you know, the third one i actually wanted to put first because i think it will be our first big indication of how strong a fight trump is going to put up, and the third one is adequate legal defense. when he was president, everybody wanted to get around him. he had all the best names that he could have, all the resources and manpower. now we're going to see what kind of team he can assemble on his own. >> and he has a long history of stiffing his lawyers for their legal bills. he has a notoriously bad reputation in the legal community for someone who won't pay up. now, obviously there's going to be a lot of value to any attorney to defend a marquee

client like trump in a case like this if he gets indicted and if it goes that far. i also think he believes in his heart of hearts that legal counsel is almost a last resort for him. the first thing he'll do is take his case to the streets. we saw him do this with the mueller probe. we saw him do it with two impeachments. he is more than happy to try to burn the house down and attack institutions and the bona fides of people trying to hold him to account if it saves his own skin. >> the grand jury is a secret proceeding. what would you put it at right now, more likely or less likely he gets indicted? >> i just -- i don't -- i think there's a strong possibility that someone at the trump organization is going to get indicted. i think that there's a possibility that the trump organization itself will get indicted as a corporate entity. i just don't know. but i don't think that tish james would have expanded her probe from a civil probe into a

criminal probe, which carries the penalty of prison along with it if you're founding guilty, which a civil probe doesn't, unless he had a rock solid belief she had good evidence. cy vance would not be convening a g a grand jury unless he had evidence that he could put in front of a grand jury and convince them that a crime has been committed. i do think this is moving toward criminal charges, it's just unclear who and what and when. >> they could squeeze out a win, though. if they indict anybody, they found trump's person, trump's organization was criminal, they'll spin that. it doesn't mean they have to get the former president himself. i've got to jump. we'll have plenty more to talk about. this case is not going anywhere. we know we'll have six months of developments along the way with this grand jury. tim o'brien, thank you. always good to see you. >> thanks, chris. the pandemic, it is on the retreat in america, but then you've got to put your eye on the olympics in japan, if that's where they are. why? well, covid cases are on the

rise there. very few people vaccinated. u.s. citizens are being advised not to travel there. what does this mean for the games? dr. sanjay gupta, next. i booked our hotel on kayak. it's flexible if we need to cancel. cancel. i haven't left the house in a year. nothing will stop me from vacation. no canceling. flexible cancellation. kayak. search one and done.

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could we be geearing up for the world's largest superspreader event? the summer olympics in japan less than two months away. growing number of desperate voices including a sponsor are urging officials to cancel the games. an insists organizers are confident a bubble can be maintained. the state department is allowing athletes to go although it's warning americans generally to avoid traveling to japan. the best of us can go, everyone else probably shouldn't. that sounds smart. only 2% of the population is vaccinated. so how risky is this? let's bring in sanjay. so, look, here's the metaphor. you've got 2% of the people in japan. it's reflective of the fact that we are way ahead when it comes to vaccinations that just about all other developed countries let alone everyone that will be represented at the olympics. do you think they should go forward or not? >> i think it's dicy right now.

it's two months away. i think they've got some work to do because they're talking about a bubble. as you mention they're going to have basic protocols in place regarding masking and things like that. they predict, chris, even though 2% of the country vaccinated 2.6%, the village itself they think will be closer to 75% to 80% of people vaccinated -- >> are they requiring them? >> they're not required them. they're encouraged but not required. >> should they? >> some of the athletes have said they think they worry that the vaccine could interfere with their performance. this is something they've taken into account so what they've basically come down on the side of is encouraging them. it's not just the athletes. the trainers, everyone else going to be a part of the village, they think 75% to 80% of the people will be vaccinated. that's an estimate. also as far as testing goes, they're going to require two tests within 96 hours of getting

on a plane, another test when you arrive in the village and then testing for every day you're actually, you know, competing or training and things like that. we'll see how that goes as well. but i guess the good news, chris, as you well know we've talked about it the nba they were able to create a bubble even with vaccines. >> but they kept them all there. and now you're going to have people flying home to their home countries and moving around is going to be a lot of intermixing there. it's a little bit different. >> yeah. that's exactly right. that's the challenge. it's much bigger and by virtue of the nature of this event you're going to have a lot of piercing of that bubble back and forth. the nba, they could really do that bubble. this is going to be more challenging. >> let me ask you something else while i have you. do you think we're going to get an answer out of china with their help or without it about how covid started? all this political cur fufal going on, bottom line.

>> i think the answer is no, chris. whether we get it or not if you epresuppose we won't get it. i'll give you a couple of examples we knew about these people who got sick in november even perhaps earlier according to some of my sources of 2019. did they have blood samples taken? do those blood samples show antibodies to the coronavirus? if they do it's not a smoking gun but it's pretty clear-cut evidence. >> you have to get them, though. >> you'd have to get them. >> china doesn't want to let you have them. >> it's knowable but we may not know because of that exact reason. one of the big things that really caught my attention a few months ago when i was talking to robert redfield was just how quickly does a virus become contagious and what does that tell us about it. listen to how he framed it to me, chris. >> i do not believe this somehow came from a bat to a human. normally when a pathogen goes to

human it takes a while for it to figure out how to become more and more efficient in human to human transmission. i just don't think this makes biological sense. >> chris, i hope that makes sense. basically what he's saying is at the jump, the point of the jump the virus sort of sputters along for a while. it's got to figure out humans. this thing came screaming out of the gates at 90 miles an hour. and that's why redfield and a lot of others believe that's because it was already being exposed to human cells in a lab. i think it's a knowable answer to this. but, man, we're 15 months in, chris, and still really not any closer to absolutely convincingly ruling out one of these origins. >> dr. sanjay gupta, appreciate you. all right, so let me give you perspective shifter and then i've got a gift for you after the break or at least it's a gift for me. all right, here's a problem you should be happy we don't have. look what's happening in rural

australia. you know what those are? mice everywhere, flooding farms, devouring hay and crops, scouring through homes, even biting people in hospitals. a pair of mice can create 500 more in a single breeding season. one farmer says i've never seen anything like this in 40 years. how did this happen? so now they want to use like stronger poisons, but they're worried about hurting native animals and that can get into the food from the farms. how about that, dealing with that in your hometown? just saying a bit of perspective. okay, from the scary to the sublime. i just had something happen tonight that i have been waiting for for almost 20 years. picture alert right after this. and buying a car 100% online. now we've created a brand-new way for you to sell your car. whether it's a year old or a few years old. we wanna buy your car. so go to carvana and enter your license plate answer a few questions. and our techno wizardry

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take a look at this. this is the picture she wanted. so see all those storm clouds i told her, this prom is not supposed to happen, let's stay home, let's get chinese. this is the picture she wanted. i'm too proud on this. look at my bella, 18 years old graduating high school, going to prom. i just -- i can't believe it. any parent will know this. i'll bring in uncle don lemon here. don lemon tonight is just gostart in just a second. look at this moment, don. >> oh, my gosh. >> i know. look at the next one. show the next picture. there. jesus, crew. so there's me. there's her with her friend max, little too good-looking but otherwise that's okay. i was holding it together. i was there with this bunch of parents and i was trying to hold it together but i could not believe i was taking the picture of this kid whose diaper i was changing five minute