Skip to main content

tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  May 28, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

5:00 pm
be her future. kyung law, cnn, montana. >> thanks, kyung. if you're looking for a new book, check out jake tapper's new novel "the devil bay dance." i'm kate bolduan. "ac 360" starts now. good evening. we begin tonight with what happened when courage is called for but cowardous answers. in the chamber over run by a violent mob, senate republicans blocked the creation of a bipartisan commission to investigate that attack. the bill actually got far more yes than no votes. 54 versus 35. but under the rules of the senate, 35 trumps 54 and 60 votes are needed for most bills to pass, which means minority party can block nearly anything even a bill like this one to investigate the attack that sent many of the same senators who voted no today into hiding.
5:01 pm
>> do my republican colleagues remember that day? do my republican colleagues remember the savage mob calling for the execution of mike pence, the makeshift gallows outside the capitol? >> well, they remember and it's not like there's nothing more to be learned. today a cnn review of court records reveal one in ten people charged in the insurrection are veterans or service members. a quarter have connections to right wing extremist groups. how deep do the extremist and insurrection dies reach into the ranks? a troubling question we don't know. there is a lot we don't know about the day but the threat to democracy which clearly still exists. so what could be more frightening to these senators than that? minority leader mitch mcconnell said nothing on the floor today or after the vote. alaska senator murkowski spoke to the question late last night before playing what she said i just want to read all six names,
5:02 pm
bill cassidy, susan collins, ron por portman, mitt romney and murkowski. >> to be making a decision for the short term political gain at the expense of understanding and acknowledging what was in front of us on january 6th, i think we need to look at that critically. is that really what this is about is everything is just one election cycle after another or are we going t ging to acknowlet as a country that is based on these principles of democracy that we hold so dear? >> senator murkowski was talking about the fear her colleagues have of their own voters a true hero was guarding the chamber.
5:03 pm
eugene good man. he single handedly confronted a mob and lured them away. with no safety on the line, he did the right thing. with far less personally at stake, the men and women he still protects do not. the chance of fear of the next election that made then vote no, rob portman and other yes vote eluded to it today. he said i've said all along it's important we get the facts out and you'll find our report from the rules committee and homeland security committee will be helpful in that regard but added our scope did not include the motivation. in other words, a defeated president's big lie about the election which drew that mob to washington, which encouraged them to come and senators who fueled the mob's delusion that the election could be overturned. is shining a light on that and their complicity what republicans are afraid of or fear of angering the former president? or was their vote a favor to
5:04 pm
mitch healthcamcconnell? leave aside the misguided belief held by ron johnson that the insurrection wasn't that big a deal, until someone writes, profiles, we won't fully know what motivated republicans to vote no. more do we know tonight what motivated nine republicans and two democrats not to vote at all. cnn reached out commitments. mike brown said he was meeting with strategic partners and military leaders in war zones overseas. north carolina's richard said unav unavoidable conflict and one had to fly home for a quote personal matter. add up how they would have voted and the bill still would have failed, which puts it back on 35 who actually voted no. some of whom met with the hotmor of capitol police officer brian sicknick who today with their
5:05 pm
vote said they just weren't interested. jake tapper talked to ms. sicknick and life partner about their reaction to the failed vote. >> i'm disappointed but realized that would happen. i really did. it was just vibes that we got yesterday. but -- >> what were the vibes? >> i don't know, just feeling that, you know, that they went through the emotions but you can tell that, you know, underneath they were being nice to us. >> we hear a lot about blacking the blue from politicians, especially. we talk about the importance of backing our men and women in blue who protect us. what does it mean in that sense when -- because you know you're going to hear some of these 35 republicans talk about in the future how important it is to back our men and women in blue. what will you think when you hear that? >> unbelievable that they think
5:06 pm
like that, you know. if they had a child that was hurt, was killed on a day like that, they would think very differently or if they were hurt, i mean, they could have very well -- somebody could have been killed. one of the congressmen or or senators. they think we're safe because of the men in blue. they don't think any further than that. >> what do you think? i mean, gladis said it's a slap in the fashion to not have this commission created. >> it's all talk and no action. clearly, they're not backing the blue. and yesterday having the officers there to talk about their experiences, i mean, i even learned more about what actually happened on that day hearing their stories close and up front on live and in color and i was absolutely appalled.
5:07 pm
so, they heard it first hand. some of that stuff, you know, it's devastating because they could have been murdered, and, you know, this cannot happen again. it cannot. so for them to vote no is, you know, it's not protecting law enforcement, and, you know, more importantly, it's not protecting our democracy. you know, people there were not only hurting law enforcement officers and then of course, like i said yesterday, there is a ripple effect of trama that still is continuing today. >> joining us now is cnn special correspondent jamie gangel. what is your sense how and why
5:08 pm
republicans voted against the commission despite personal pleas? >> i don't know how many times i'm going to say this but all roads lead to donald trump. you listen to those two women. i don't know how someone looks them in the eye and says no to them, but that's what happened over and over again, and those were the senators, the republican senators who are willing to meet with them. this is about fear of donald trump, fear of donald trump's voters and about one other thing. mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy want political power. they want to regain the majority and they think this is the only way to get it. >> rachel, it's incredible with the number of benghazi hearings held, valid or not, and the arguments being made by republicans then could certainly be made exactly the same argument why there should be a
5:09 pm
bipartisan commission now. every single lawmaker, the idea that every single lawmaker wouldn't want to investigate a once in a lifetime event that threat ened their lives and american democracy. what are you hearing how this played out on mrs. sicknick's efforts. >> you mentioned benghazi. i was a reporter that covered it for two years republicans investigated what happened there. this is the hypocrisy of washington and the sad truth of it is it's very ugly sometimes. think about the sicknick family. it one thing for republican lawmaker to hear from a democrat from their vote, from a fellow moderate republican, it's a totally different thing to look the family of a fallen officer in the eyes to hear their pleas to find out more about their son's death and still vote no. if that's not going to change your mind, nothing will.
5:10 pm
i mean, jamie is exactly right. it's two things, it's trump and a desire to flip the congress, mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy, the leaders in the house and senate decided in order to regain power in congress, they have to focus on one thing and one thing alone, biden and biden's agenda. they see this as a threat. the report probably would have come out in the beginning of the midterm heating up and saw that as a liability. they didn't want to talk about it on the campaign trail and that's 100% the motivation. >> jamie, there were two republicans, nine republicans that didn't show up at all. how much was about them not wanting to be on the record for this? >> i'd like to say i hope they had a very good excuse for not showing up. i think for some of them, they were looking for a bigger desk to hide under but this is what i really don't understand. this is not just any vote.
5:11 pm
this was a historic vote. we all saw this firsthand. they experienced it firsthand. they were under attack. five people died. 140 plus people were injured. it is inconceivable to me that you do not show up for this vote. >> rachel, we knew going into this that the majority of senate republicans would vote this commission down. what do you think of the fact three more voted for it than originally expected to? >> i mean, look, it could have been some lobbying by the sicknick family. republicans will probably tell you something privately than publicly, which is they actually do feel some guilt about this vote. the excuses are far and best. we heard, you know, this would be redundant this would medal in invest gages and congressional committees have these
5:12 pm
investigations and, you know, they're going to be putting out reports but the reality is none of these investigations from justice department to the congress are going to look at what happened in the white house and there are still serious questions about what donald trump knew at various points, what he was doing, what he wasn't doing and we're never going to know sort of what happened without this commission and so i do think republicans obviously the ones who change their votes or decided to vote for this commission felt that and sort of were thinking more legacy and what about doing what was right and what they felt was right, i think a lot of republicans privately will admit this was not their proudest moment. >> rachel, jamie gangel, thank you. next, more on what voters could make today and brian sicknick's mom learned the same officers meant notary ne of whay said and qanon with polling that says one in four republicans say
5:13 pm
they believe in the group's conspiracy theories. when heartburn takes you by surprise. fight back fast, with new tums naturals. free from artificial flavors and dyes.
5:14 pm
(vo) jamaica. (woman) best decision ever. (vo) feel the sand between your toes, and the gentle waves of the sea on your skin. feel the warm jamaican breeze lift your spirits and nourish your soul. escape to exactly what makes your heart beat. you will love every moment. jamaica. heartbeat of the world. let's go.
5:15 pm
♪it's, oh, so quiet♪ ♪shhhh shhhh♪ ♪it's, oh, so still♪ ♪shhhh shhhh♪ ♪and so peaceful until...♪ ♪you blow a fuse♪ ♪zing boom♪ ♪the devil cuts loose. zing boom♪ ♪so what's the use. wow bam♪ ♪of falling in love?♪
5:16 pm
certified turbocharger, suspension and fuel injection. translation: certified goosebumps. certified from headlamp to tailpipe. that's certified head turns. and it's all backed by our unlimited mileage warranty. that means unlimited peace of mind. mercedes-benz certified pre-owned. translation: the mercedes of your dreams is closer than you think.
5:17 pm
before we dig deeper into the politics and political repercussions of today's vote, i want to play another portion of jake tapper's conversation with brian sicknick's mom asking senators to support the bill. >> gladis, some of the moments in the meetings were tense. >> uh-huh. >> i mean, one of the things i think people don't -- i doesn't even really matter but brian was a republican. i mean they are turning their back on a fellow republican. whatever you're comfortable with, tell me about the tense moments with the senators you met with. you don't have to name them if
5:18 pm
you don't want to. >> no, no, i'm not going to name them. they were very charming. they knew what they were doing. they knew how to talk to us, and -- but we kind of held back. it was just -- it was just tense, and we just made believe, you know, everything was fine and we were very nice to them for the most part. >> well, it was just tense because -- >> because of -- because we knew -- i think because we knew they weren't sincere. >> scott, the fact that some republicans would talk with this grieving mom of an officer who is protecting from from attackers on january 6th and still vote the way they voted, does that surprise you at all? >> no, i'm not surprised. i mean, it was obvious from
5:19 pm
get-go recently that most of the conference didn't want to do this. the vote couldn't didn't surprise me. my heart goes out to the family of officer sicknick. they are still in anguish. i'm still in anguish what happened to my country. i think i told you at the time, i favored a commission and i still do. i think some of the republicans, that's my outraged american hat. let me put on my political operative hat and i think the air come out of this balloon to some degree because it took so long and i think republicans think the department of justice having arrested several hundred people already and existing congressional committees getting into this, to them gave them a defenseble political position not to add another layer here. >> paul, in the future when republicans say they back the blue and support police officers, is that going to ring hallow? it will ring hallow to people that disagree what they did to other republicans they will have a reason to say it is still
5:20 pm
supporting police. >> well, i suppose, you know, you really can't fool some of the people all of the time and those people will fall for it. a lot of people, if the democrats make their case, frankly, if the media keeps them honest will point out you have no right to say you back the blue if you voted to cover up, to not investigate a riot, an in insurrection in our capitol where mrs. sicknick's son gave his life to protect the senators that vote to cover it up. it is the most cowardly thing you can imagine. those women and men in the senate are safe today because of the capitol police and d.c. metro police and because of the national guard and those -- 138 injured officers, four dead. and for those republicans to pretend they back the blue, they stand for officers.
5:21 pm
crimes can be a major issue in this upcoming midterm and republicans seem ready to demagogue the rise in crime. this is going to make it impossible for them to credibly make the case they back the blue when what they're doing is covering up a riot and an insurrection. >> scott, is it as simple as jamie was saying that just fear of donald trump among republican senators and fear of, you know, the trump base being primaried? >> i don't think it's quite that simple. that is part of it certainly, that they don't want to get donald trump riled up about this and certainly some members are affected by that. as a broader political matter, what republicans want to talk about is joe biden and joe biden's policies and how they would argue he's failing the country and they see this commission as a continuation of keeping donald trump at the center of the election. now, donald trump being at the
5:22 pm
center of an election most recently caused republicans to lose and we lost the midterms in 2018 so the republicans see it as democrats wanting to keep trump in the middle of it, republicans want to put other issues front and center, hence the votes today to try to essentially make this go away in the short term so that it doesn't mess up the midterm strategy and by the way, republicans have a really good chance to take back the house and they don't want to interrupt that, what history would say is a probable outcome. >> scott, sorry. there is a factual flaw. i love scott. he's a good guy. he's a friend of mine. the commission by law must report by december 31st of this year. that is 312 days before the election. 44 weeks before the election. that's plenty of time. the democrats will like nothing more than to have an argument about joe biden that is popular or policies that are popular. this coverup is not, i think, because they're worried about the election. i think they're worried about what we'll find. they're worried god forbid if
5:23 pm
anybody they know was somehow insu instigating this or pushing this. we don't have the facts because we don't have the commission. this is not about trying to make sure the election is about issues favorable to them. this is about covering up an attack on the capitol. >> ahead of the vote gjamie gangel said they were blocking it as a favor. do you have -- how rare -- assuming that is true, how rare is that? or i mean, how powerful is that? how effective is that? >> well, i mean, if you look over the term of his being leader, it pretty effective. one of the hallmarks of his leadership tenure, he tries to drive as much conference unity as possible. that's the number one pillar of his leadership, i need most of the republicans together most of the time. i need as many of them on board every vote we take.
5:24 pm
so i think he was trying to once again drive conference unity here because most of his conference didn't want to do this. and it's where he wound up on impeachment. he was pretty angry about january 6th and said so on the floor and that's enshrined in the congressional record. he wound up voting to acquit donald trump in the impeachment trial because that's where most of his conference was and you don't have such a long tenure as a leader very often so i think this is really a continuation of what he sees as his job as the leader to keep as much cohesion among the republicans to keep division out of the public eye and to keep people together and focused on the issues that they think will be most politicallied a -- politically advantageous. republicans are telling us what we know, donald trump was at fault. his people were at fault. he incited a mob. they threatened mike pence, et
5:25 pm
cetera, et cetera. >> scott jennings, paul, as well, thanks you. is that senate rejection a sign of an overall decline of democracy itself? i'll ask about that and talk about that with authors with a book publish that foreshadowed some actions playing out now a book called "how democracies die."
5:26 pm
5:27 pm
5:28 pm
5:29 pm
. senate majority crying senate republicans rejection of a bipartisan commission to investigate the january 6th riots and asking colleagues if they truly remembered what took place. he also said shame on the republican party for trying to swoop the horrors of that day under the rug because they're afraid of donald trump. two professors of government at harvard danielle and steven predicted much of what we've been watching come to fruition in "how democracies die." they published it in 2018. according to the washington post, president biden became obsessed with the book around that time and would carry it everywhere. the authors join me tonight. steve, when your book first came out, you warned while many dismissed the president as all talk, his talk could have severe consequences. how do you view the move to block the commission? >> clearly, his talk has had
5:30 pm
consequences. he had consequences far, far more severe than we ever anticipated. when we wrote the book, we did not imagine the republican party, the entire republican party would not only trump but anti system, anti democratic political force and that unfortunately as painful as it is to say, we're there today. >> they don't see themselves as that. there seecms to be a cognitive disdense here. >> in public. very few authoritarian forces declare themselves openly authoritarian. they always believe or purport to believe they're doing the right thing and they're operating in the name of the common good or democracy or the law. so the republicans wouldn't be the first to believe their doing the right thing. >> short of a civil war, is
5:31 pm
there anything more anti democratic than an insurrection or attack on the capitol on the day congress is certifying the results of a free and fair election? >> that's really quite striking. it combines two different things. on one hand, not acre cepting t results of elections and second of all, allowing for violence to take place, political violence. are they really atoruthoritariaf they don't say, those are two key check marks. >> not only was the big lie pushed, but the former president continues to undermine democracy, continues to undermine and talk about push the big lie. the republican party embraced the big lie and they are legislating creating legislation in state houses across the country based on this lie.
5:32 pm
>> yeah, this is the biggest threat facing american democracy today happening across u.s. states and republican led states. one of the points of our book is democracies don't die at the hands of generals anymore and military coup, democracies die at the ballot box. the biggest threat we face in 2022 if the republicans retake the house, which they very well might, you could very well imagine a 2024 election no matter who the candidate is, no matter what the results are, the state legislatures will throw the election to the house of representatives and you have to wonder will a republican trumpfied house of representatives vote in favor of a democratic nominee for president even if the democrat won. >> steve, has there been another point in american history where democracy was as threatened as it potentially is now? >> so, beyond the civil war, no. certainly in no one's livineing
5:33 pm
memory, not nixon, not roosevelt, democracy has never been under threat in this way. we do not consider ourselves particularly alarmists and we are now convinced that there is a serious chance that the republican party tries to steal the 2024 election. i think 2020 ended up being a dress rehearsal in which republicans learned there are levers they can pull to throw out ballots of rival strongholds based on false allegations of fraud or based on tech technicalities. >> i spoke during the last administration with the former cia director about what he called the thin civilization. i thought it was accurate the stability of the democratic institutions that we think is sort of deeply rooted and established is actually it's covered by a thin veneer.
5:34 pm
>> democratic tend to survive, a rich democratic history tends to sur survive. that's what social history teaches us. there are no guarantees because the reason they predict what democracies are like is because citizens mobilize, politicians abide by democratic rules and norms so there is nothing automatic about it. we have a kind of self-conception of our society and democracy that's a machine that runs of itself and i think it is not a machine that runs of itself. it requires visual inaction by citizens and politicians to survive. >> daniel, i mentioned "the washington post" reported that president biden is obsessed with your book "how democracies die." what lessons do you hope that he takes from it and governs based on? >> it was mentioned in a
5:35 pm
biography about him and been recommending it during the campaign so we heard second hand about it. so, you know, it's quite striking. we wrote the book for the general audience hoping to shape public debate so in this sense we hope it has and i think one of the key lessons i think i hope he learns and that all our senators and congress men learn is again this point that democracy doesn't run by itself and requires visual inaction and reform and constant mending and i guess a second point i would make is that one of the key concepts in the notion of neutral toleration where you tonight treat your rivals as emmies. you treat them as rooivals. >> appreciate it and recommend your book. thank you so much. >> thanks for having us. >> it is a fascinating read. for mallout frfallout from decision and what a striking new poll is saying about the number of republicans who believe the qanon conspiracy theories. , and now we get to spend it our way. val: but we worry if we have enough to last.
5:36 pm
for retirement planning, investment advice, and more, look for a cfp® professional. cfp® professionals can help you craft a complete financial plan that gives you confidence today and tomorrow. find your cfp® professional at letsmakeaplan.org. cal: our confident forever plan is possible with a cfp® professional. ♪ to make progress, we must keep taking steps forward.
5:37 pm
we believe the future of energy is lower carbon. and to get there, the world needs to reduce global emissions. at chevron, we're taking action. tying our executives' pay to lowering the carbon emissions intensity of our operations. it's tempting to see how far we've come. but it's only human... to know how far we have to go. bottom line is, mom's love that land o' frost premium sliced meats have no by-products.
5:38 pm
(his voice) “baloney!” (automated voice) has joined the call. (voice from phone) hey, baloney here. i thought this was a no by-products call? land o' frost premium. fresh look. same great taste.
5:39 pm
today's vote in washington was continuing to propagate the lie that inspired the attack on a nearly daily basis. the judge's remarks came in the case of two defendants charged in an insure recollection and the anger continues to be stoked by multiple media outlets and the state and federal party
5:40 pm
leaders who are intent on s sense censoring those who dare to challenge the president's reelection of those events. those off the wall qanon conspiracy theories. in a new poll, 23% of republicans said they believe in the same theories and 22% of e von -- evangelicals agreed. that's about 50 million people. perspective from cnn law enforcement analyst and former fbi deputy director and georgia state university mia bloom and author of the fourth coming pastels and pedophiles inside the mind of qanon women. andrew, when you do the math, the idea if this poll is accurate, 50 million americans believe in the basic qanon there is sex trafficking pedophiles at the heart of media and government in this country,
5:41 pm
that's extraordinary. >> it is. it is extraordinary and ex ordinarily concerning and in addition to the number it indicates people that believe the core believes, there is another category of qanon doubters they refer to. those are people who indicated they don't agree with everything in qanon but don't reject it out right and that was the number of 55% of republicans go into that category. these are people who kind of know it's wrong but don't disd dismiss it out right. it's just -- i don't know that we've ever been in a position to confront a challenge like this to the basic tenants of our democracy with such a significant portion of country that's willing to believe just ridiculous falsehoods. they're so invested i guess in the idea of their kind of
5:42 pm
political team, you know, winning elections and maintaining power that they're lg willing to embrace these absolute falsehoods. it a tough spot we're in. >> mia, what is it about this moment in time? i know it part of your research you've been deeply meshed online where people are being radicalized. why now? i guess there is always the strain in this country but what about qanon has taken hold so fast? >> qanon was on its way out and the pandemic seems to have given it a shot in the heart. what happened is we had more of less a flat curve as far as people who believed in qanon and because of the pandemic, either because of the fact you had people who were home and online and they were being exposed to this awful conspiracy on facebook and other social media
5:43 pm
platforms, but also because of things circulating on the internet like pandemic, what ended up happening is this was the perfect storm for qanon. instead of being able to go to church on sunday and have the kinds of community and sucker that going to church offered them, they also stayed home and they were being exposed to these terrible conspiracy theories that just prayed on them and so we have about one in four evangelicals that believe in qanon as well as the fact that we're seeing other religions falling down the rabbit hole. >> according to the same report, 23% of republicans, 15% of americans mostly or completely agree with the statement because things gotten so far off track true american patriots may have to resort to violence to save our country. i mean, again, that's incredibly
5:44 pm
alarming. >> it is, and anderson, it's not just a statistical theory. we saw that happen on january 6th. and as these believes continue to perpetuate, there is no reason for -- there is no good reason for us to believe that couldn't happen again in many other places around the country and as our political leaders continue to kind of deny what happened on the 6th and fan the flames of these underlying lies like the stolen election, we edge closer and closer i think to those threats. >> and yeah, it's one thing to kind of dismiss people who believe parafetch conspiracies out on the fringe but you take many qanon lies are basically an apocalyptic world view based on stereo types and anti say met t -- anti s-semitic believes. >> i think it was very easy to
5:45 pm
dismiss because it seemed salon knee -- so looney toons at the beginning. we have members in congress spouting qanon but the fact remains it's not just evangelicals that have fallen down the rabbit hole, 18% of white catholics believe in it, hispanic catholics and 12% non-christians. the shocking part is how many orthodox jews believe in qanon despite the fact it's filled with anti s-semitic tropes. we have understand as long as the republican party doesn't disavow cue nqanon and allows p like marjorie taylor greene to say outrageous things, we'll see more and more qanon candidates. >> andrew and mia, appreciate your time. quick programming note, our documentary will air tomorrow evening on cnn. the pastor preaching lies
5:46 pm
about covid and the family grieving the loss of the loved one that went to the church, believed the mistress with deadly consequences.
5:47 pm
5:48 pm
5:49 pm
5:50 pm
tonight a tennessee pastor is under fire for preaching lies about covid and vaccines. we first talked to the pastor last december and he doubled down on his mistruths and months later a family whose uncle attended the church who died is distraught. we went back to the church and wanted to ask more questions but it didn't go as planned. here's her report. >> if you think for one minute that those political elites actually got that vaccination, you are smoking meth in your mama's basement. >> reporter: pastor greg lock has grown his audience over the last year by calling covid-19 a fake pandemic and the vaccine a scam. >> i ain't getting no sheep shot in my arm, i don't care what biden and the rest of that fake fraud administration says. >> i lost my uncle over the church. >> reporter: how? >> part of it was because i was
5:51 pm
so vocal with my immediate family about what i felt and the spirit i detected from greg that i didn't feel was anything godly. >> reporter: chip davis and his brother, billy, are singer songwriters outside nashville. several members of their family have attended lock's church, including their uncle who died of covid-19 in april 2021. >> he got sick with covid. he decided he would wait a couple of days before he went for help. and those couple of days were probably critical to whether he was going to survive covid or not. >> reporter: did you go to your uncle's funeral? >> i did not go to my uncle's funeral. >> reporter: why not? >> that would have involved putting myself in the presence of greg lock and a bunch of people that i don't think are thinking properly right now. >> i ain't promoting it and i discourage everybody under this tent to get it because i'm telling you, if you think that you're going to get healthy over
5:52 pm
a vaccine that's supposed to do away with a virus that has a 99.9% survival rate you've been watching too much fox news and cnn at the same time. so no, look, i have not changed my stance. i haven't softened my stance. i have strengthened my stance against the vaccine. it is not fda approved. >> i've got to take a xanax. i'm serious. my pulse is out the roof right now. >> can you just explain why? >> the only way he could have been proven wrong is maybe if my uncle had taken the vaccination. if you don't want to take a vaccination, that's entirely up to you, but to spread misinformation about it is dead wrong and it could potentially lead to more loss of life. >> reporter: we interviewed lock in december 2020 when more than 4900 tennesseeans had already
5:53 pm
died of covid-19. >> there's no pandemic. covid-19 is not a pandemic. >> reporter: what is a pandemic then? >> not what we are experiencing. i'm 44 years old. we've not had one in my lifetime so i don't know and this is not it. >> reporter: he often talks about that with significant embellishment. >> cnn showed up and said we'd like to know why you are so arrogant. why would you be willing to kill every elderly person within 250 miles of nashville. we ain't killed nobody yet, by the way. >> reporter: we went back to lock's church on sunday and were set to interview him the next day but he cancelled on us after we arrived and his publicist said he didn't feel comfortable doing it. he did not respond to our questions via email but later that day he posted a video to facebook. >> we almost had to call the police on cnn, on three chicks from cnn. we tried to be super nice, the whole deal. they're trying to say we're killing people, we've had a covid outbreak. if you're going to run me out of
5:54 pm
church with a whip, you better be a full grown man, ladies and gentlemen, is what i'm telling you. these chicks diabolical. >> there can be no justice for my uncle. he's gone. if greg would find a modicum of humility and just say i was wrong. masks have saved lives, it's been proven time and time again and not be belligerent. >> reporter: in december lock also told us this. >> people can call us conspiracy theorists or what they want to, but there are aborted fetal tissue within the context of all of these vaccines. >> reporter: several people at his church told us the same thing. though fetal cell lines were used to develop the vaccines, they do not contain any fetal tissue. then in february chip's uncle coburn said in a family group chat that he wouldn't get the vaccine because it had fetal tissue in it. he died two months later. >> this is a family room chat. he said there's stuff in this vaccine such as aborted fetuses.
5:55 pm
as for me i'll do as i have fom, many years, i'll put my trust in my almighty god. each of you do what you feel. love my family. >> reporter: how did you feel hearing your family members parrot the things that greg lock had said about covid that weren't true? >> it made me angry. >> reporter: and then see them get sick from it. >> it made me very angry. >> reporter: even after what happened to coburn, some members of the family still don't want to get the vaccine. >> what do you think about coronavirus? >> what do i think about it? >> mm-hmm. >> it's dangerous, but sometimes it's population control. >> yeah? >> just like abortion. >> reporter: chip and billy told us they felt like in the last five years that politics had made more tension in your family. do you think that's true? >> they think me and the others are stupid. >> reporter: i don't think that's true. why do you say that?
5:56 pm
>> well, because of their views and they can't we believe the way we believe. ♪ i'm just waiting on the road ♪ >> i'm actually shocked that we were able to even get together tonight. >> this is what greg lock and that type of cultish religion has robbed me of i feel like. time with my uncle because this is very rare. ♪ i'm just waiting on the tiny road ♪ >> reporter: ellie reeve, cnn, mt. juliet, tennessee. >> thanks for that report. we'll be right back. plan said it couldn't be done but you managed to pack a record 1.1 trillion transistors into this chip whoo! yeah! oh, hi i invested in invesco qqq
5:57 pm
a fund that invests in the innovators of the nasdaq 100 like you you don't have to be circuit design engineer to help push progress forward can i hold the chip? become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq (vo) jamaica. (woman) best decision ever. can i hold the chip? (vo) feel the sand between your toes, and the gentle waves of the sea on your skin. feel the warm jamaican breeze lift your spirits and nourish your soul. escape to exactly what makes your heart beat. you will love every moment. jamaica. heartbeat of the world. let's go. because everything great is birthed through discomfort. it's time to get uncomfortable. let's get uncomfortable. that's when we find empathy. once we get past our differences, that's when we find empathy because real empathy knows no age no color no gender.
5:58 pm
real empathy says, hey, i see you. i feel you. i hear you. i understand you. i may not be you, but i love you. that's what truly matters. ♪ ♪it's, oh, so quiet♪ that's what truly matters. ♪shhhh shhhh♪ ♪it's, oh, so still♪ ♪shhhh shhhh♪ ♪and so peaceful until...♪ ♪you blow a fuse♪ ♪zing boom♪ ♪the devil cuts loose. zing boom♪ ♪so what's the use. wow bam♪ ♪of falling in love?♪
5:59 pm
6:00 pm
. we wish everyone a safe memorial day weekend. the news continues. i want to hand it over to our good friend, michael smerconish. michael. >> anderson, thanks so much. i'm michael smerconish in for chris como. welcome to "prime time." there will be no 9/11-style investigation into the the events of january 6. as expected, there were not ten senate republicans willing to go along with such an inquiry. at first blush, it sounds bewildering, disinterested, even cold. when the 35 republican senators who today blocked the january 6th commission go home for their memorial d