good evening. we begin tonight with what happens when courage is called for but cowardice answers. today, in the very chamber overrun by a violent mob just a few months ago, senate republicans blocked the creation of a bipartisan commission to investigate that attack. the bill actually got far more yes than no votes. 54, versus 35. but under the strange rules of the senate, 35 trumps 54. and 60 votes are needed for most bills to pass. which means the minority party can block nearly anything, even a bill like this one. even to investigate the attack that sent many of the same senators, who voted no today,

into hiding. >> do my republican colleagues remember that day? do my republican colleagues remember the savage mob calling for the execution of mike pence? the makeshift gallows outside the capitol? >> well, they remember and it's not like there is nothing more to be learned. just today, a cnn review of court records and pentagon documents revealed that one-in-ten people charged in the insurrection are veterans or current-service members. a quarter of those defendants have connections to right-wing extremist groups. so, how deep do those extremists and insurrectionists' ties reach into the ranks? it's a troubling question we still don't know. but also, the threat to democracy, which, clearly, still exists. so what could be more frightening to these senators than that? well, minority leader mitch mcconnell, who lobbied hard against the bill, said nothing on the floor today. however, alaska senator lisa murkowski, one of six

republicans who voted yes, spoke to the question late-last night. before playing what she said, i want to read all six names. bill cassidy, susan collins, rob portman, ben sasse, mitt romney, and senator murkowski. >> to be making a decision, for the short-term political gain, at the expense of understanding and acknowledging what was in front of us on january 6th. i -- i think we need to -- to -- to look at that critically. is that really what this is about, is everything is just one election cycle after another? or are we going to acknowledge that, as -- as a country, that is based on these principles of democracy, that we hold so dear. >> well, as senator murkowski was talking about the fear her colleagues have of their own

voters. a true hero was nearby guarding the chamber. capitol police officer eugene goodman. you will remember, he was the one who single-handedly confronted a mob, lured them away from the senate chamber just steps away. with his own safety on the line, he did the right thing. with far less personally at stake today, the men and women he still protects did not. but chances are it's not just fear of the next election that made them vote no. ohio republican rob portman, another-yes vote, alluded to it today. here's what he told cnn. i have said all along i think it's important that we get the facts out and i think you will find our report from the rules committee and homeland security committee would be very helpful in that regard. then, he added, but our scope did not include the motivation. in other words, a defeated president's big lie about the election, which drew that mob to washington. which encouraged them to come. and senators, who fueled the mob's delusion that the election could be overturned. is shining a light on that and their complicity, what republicans are afraid of? or is it fear of angering the former president?

or was there fear of mitch mcconnell? well, leave aside the misguided belief held, most notably, by senator ron johnson, that the insurrection just wasn't that big a deal. truth is, until someone writes profiles in cowardice, we won't fully know what motivated republicans to vote no. nor, do we know, tonight, what motivated nine republicans and two democrats not to vote, at all. cnn reached out to all of them, and heard back from several. some said they had family commitments. senator mike round's office said he was quote meeting with strategic partners and -- and military leaders in war zones overseas. north carolina's richard burr mentioned a quote unavoidable conflict. democrat, patty murray said she had to fly home for a quote personal family matter. add up how they say they would have voted, and the bill still would have failed. which puts the onus back on the 35, who actually voted no. some of whom, yesterday, met with gladys sicknick, the mother of capitol police officer brian sicknick, who died after

defending the capitol, including the 35 lawmakers, who today, with their vote, said they just weren't interested. this afternoon, jake tapper talked to ms. sicknick and officer sicknick's life partner, sandra garza, about their reaction to the failed vote. >> i was disappointed but i realized that was going to happen. i really did. it was just vibes that we got yesterday. >> what were the vibes? >> i don't know. just -- just a feeling. that, you know, they -- they did -- they went through the motions. but you can tell it, you know, underneath, they were being nice to us. yeah. >> you know, we hear a lot about backing the blue from politicians, especially. we talk about the importance of backing our men and women in blue who protect us. what does it mean, in that sense, when -- because you -- you know you aring a e going to some of these 35 republicans talk about, in the future, how important it is to back our men

and women in blue. what will you think when you hear that? >> unbelievable, that they think like that. you know? it's just -- if they had a child, that was hurt, was killed on a day like that. they would think very differently. or if they were hurt. i mean, they could have very well -- somebody could have been killed. one of the congressmen, one of the senators. but apparently, they just think, well, you know, we're safe because of the men in blue. but they don't think any further from that. >> what do you think? i mean, is -- gladys said it was a slap in the face to -- to not have this commission created. >> i think, you know, it's all talk, and no action. clearly, they're not backing the blue. and yesterday, having officer fanone and officer dunn there to talk about their experiences. i mean, i even learned more about what actually happened on that day hearing their stories. you know, close and upfront and live and in color. and i was absolutely appalled.

so, you know, they heard it, firsthand. some of that stuff has not been put out in the media. and, you know, it -- it's devastating because, you know, they could have, especially officer fanone -- he could have been murdered. and, you know, this cannot happen again. it cannot. so, for them to vote no is, you know, it's -- it's not protecting law enforcement. and, you know, more importantly, it's -- it's not protecting our democracy. you know, people there were not only hurting law-enforcement officers. and then, of course, like i said yesterday, there's the ripple effect of trauma. that's still continuing today. >> joining us now, cnn special correspondent, jamie gangel. cnn political an lest, co-author of "politico's" playbook. jamie, you have been talking to

people all week about this vote. what is your sense of how and why the majority of republicans voted against the commission despite the personal pleas from ms. sicknick? >> i don't know how many times i'm going to say this. but all roads lead to donald trump. you listen to those two women. i don't know how someone looks them in the eye, and -- and says no to them. # but that's what happened over and over again and those were the senators -- the republican senators -- who were willing to meet with them. this is about fear of donald trump, fear of donald trump's voters. and about one other thing. mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy want political power. they want to regain the majority, and they think this is the only way to get it. >> rachel, it's incredible, with the number of benghazi hearings that were held. valid or not. and the arguments being made by republicans, then, could

certainly be made exactly the same arguments about why there should be a bipartisan commission, now. every single lawmaker. the idea that every single lawmaker wouldn't want to invest -- investigate a once-in-a-lifetime event that threatened their own lives, threatened american democracy. i mean, what do you think how this played out on the heels of mrs. sicknick's efforts? >> you mentioned benghazi. i was one of the reports who covered it. you know, for two years, republicans investigated what happened over there and this is just the hypocrisy of washington. and the -- the sad truth is it's very ugly sometimes. think about the sicknick family. i think it's one thing for a republican lawmaker to hear chiding from a democrat for their vote against the commission. even from the media, from a fellow moderate republican who decided to back this commission. it's totally different thing to look, you know, the family of a fallen officer in the eyes. to hear their pleas. to find out more about, you know, their son's death.

and still, vote no. if that's not going to change your mind, nothing will. and i mean, jamie's exactly right. it's two things. it's trump and it's a desire to flip the congress. mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy, the leaders in the house and senate, have decided that in order to regain power in congress. they have got to focus on one thing and one thing alone. biden and biden's agenda. they see this as a threat. this commission. the report probably would have come out at the beginning of, you know, the midterms really heating up. and they saw that as a liability. they didn't want to be talking about it on the campaign trail. and that is, 100%, the motivation behind these votes. >> jamie, i mean, there were two democrats, nine republicans, who didn't show up at all to vote. how much of that particularly for the republicans was about them not wanting to be on the record on this? >> well, first of all, i would like to say i hope they had, really, a very good excuse for not showing up. i think, for some of them, they were looking for a bigger desk to hide under. but this is what i really don't

understand. this is not just any vote. this was an historic vote. we, all, saw this, firsthand. they experienced it, firsthand. they were under attack. five people died. 140-plus people were -- were injured. it is inconceivable, to me, that you do not show up for this vote. >> rachel, we knew, going into this, that the majority of senate republicans were going to vote this commission down. what do you make of the fact that three-more republican senators voted for it than were originally expected to? >> i mean, look. it could have been some of that lobbying by the sicknick family. i think, republicans, a lot of them privately will tell you something different than they are saying publicly, which is that, you know, they actually do feel some guilt about this vote. the excuses have been far and vast. i mean, you know, we heard, you know, this is -- this would be redundant. that this would meddle in investigations by the fbi that are ongoing.

that, you know, these congressional committees already have these investigations. and, you know, they're going to be putting out these reports. but the reality is that none of these investigations, from justice department to the congress, are going to look at what happened in the white house. and there are, still, serious questions of -- about what donald trump knew, at various points. what he was doing, what he wasn't doing. and we're never going to know, sort of, what happened without this commission. and so, i do think republicans, obviously, the ones who changed their votes or decided to vote for this commission. they felt that pull and they sort of were thinking more legacy, and what about doing what was right and what they felt was right. i think a lot of republicans, privately, will admit that this was not their proudest moment. >> rachel, thank you. jamie gangel, as well. thank you. also, brian sicknick's mom on what it's like to learn that the same senators who were all smiles with her in their offices yesterday, meant none of what they said. later, in light of qanon's role in the insurrection, we will talk about ongoing threat

it poses especially with new polling that says nearly one-in-four republicans say they believe in the group's conspiracy theories.

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yeah. get more from your neighborhood. doordash. hey yo, grover! you like ramen? before we dig deeper into the politics and political repercussions of today's vote to kill a january-6th commission. i want to play another portion of jake tapper's conversation with officer brian sicknick's mom, gladys, who was at the capitol yesterday asking republican senators to support the bill. >> gladys, i know some of the -- sandra just alluded to it -- some of the moments in the meetings were tense. >> uh-huh. >> one of the things that i think people don't -- it doesn't even really matter. but brian was a republican. i mean, so it's not just turning their backs on an american. they're turning their back on a fellow republican. whatever you're comfortable with, tell me about the tense moments and the senator -- with the senators that you met with.

you don't have to name them, if you don't want. >> no, no, i'm not going to do that. just, they were very charming. and they -- they knew what they were doing. they knew how to talk to us. and -- but we kind of held back. and it's just -- it was just -- it was tense. and -- and we just made believe, you know, everything was fine. and we were very nice to them. for the most part. >> well, it was just tense because? >> because -- because we knew -- i think, because we knew they weren't sin veer. sin sincere. >> with us now, cnn political commentators, paul begala and scott jennings. the fact that some republicans would talk with this grieving mom of an officer, who is protecting them from attackers on january 6th. and -- and still, vote the way they -- they voted. does that surprise you at all? >> no. i'm not surprised. i mean, it was obvious, from the

get go, at least recently, that most of the conference didn't want to do this. so, the vote count didn't really surprise me. my heart goes out, by the way, to the family of officer sicknick. i mean -- i mean, you can tell they're still in anguish. i'm still in anguish over what happened in my country. i mean, i am as outraged today as i was on january 6th. i think i told you, at the time, i favored a commission and i still do. i think some of the republicans, my outrage hat. let me put on my republican hat and tell you i do think republicans think the department of justice having arrested several-or hundred people already and existing congressional committees get noog this. to them, it gave them a defensible-political position to not add another layer here. >> paul, in the future, when republicans say they back the blue and support police officers. i mean, is that going to ring hollow? i guess, it will only ring hollow to people who disagree with what they did. to other republicans, they'll

have a reason to say that it is still supporting police. >> well, i suppose, you know, you -- you really can't fool some of the people all of the time. and those people will -- will fall for it. but i think a lot of people, if the democrats make their case, frankly, if the media keeps them honest the way you have been. we'll point out, you have no right to say you back the blue, if you voted to cover up, to not investigate a riot. an insurrection in our capitol. where the very senate floor, itself, was breached. where -- where -- where mrs. sickn sicknick's son gave his life to save the lives potentially of those very same senators who voted to cover it up. it is the most cowardly thing you could possibly imagine. i mean, those men and women in the senate are safe today because of the capitol police. because of the d.c. metro police. because of the national guard. and those -- 138 injured. officers. four dead. and for those republicans to pretend that they back the blue

or they stand for officer -- crimes can be a major issue in this upcoming midterm. and republicans seem ready to demagogue the rise in crime that we are seeing. boy. this is really going to make it impossible for them to credibly make the case they back the blue when what they are doing is covering up a riot and an insurrection. >> scott, is it as simple as -- i mean, as, you know, jamie was saying? that just fear of donald trump, among republican senators and fear of, you know, the trump base or being primaried? >> i don't think it's that -- quite that simple. i think that's part of it, certainly. that they don't want to get donald trump riled up about this. and certainly, some members are affected by that. but as -- as a broader-political matter, what the republicans want to talk about in the midterm election is joe biden and joe biden's policies. and how they would argue he is failing the country. and they see this commission as a continuation of keeping donald trump at the center of the

election. now, donald trump being at the center of an election, most recently, caused the republicans to lose. and we lost the midterms in 2018. and so, the republicans see it as democrats wanting to keep trump in the middle of it. republicans want to put other issues front and center. hence -- hence, the votes today to try to -- to try to essentially make this go away in the short-term so that it doesn't mess up the midterm strategy. and by the way, i think republicans have a really good chance to at least take back the house and they don't want to interrupt that what history would say is a probable outcome. >> scott, sorry, yeah, go ahead. >> i love scott, he is a really good guy. he really is. he is a friend of mine. the commission, by law, must report, by december 31st of this year. that is 312 days before the election. 44 weeks before the election. that's plenty of time. the democrats will love nothing more than to have an argument about joe biden who is very popular or his policies which are very popular. this coverup is not, i think, because they are worried about the election. i think they -- they are worried about what we'll find.

they're worried, god forbid, if anybody they know was, somehow, instigating this or promoting this. or pushing this. we don't have the facts, yet, because we haven't had the commission. but this is not about just trying to make sure the election is about issues that are favorable to republicans. this is about covering up an attack on our capitol. >> scott, jamie gangel reported that ahead of the vote, mitch mcconnell was asking republican senators to block it as a, quote, personal favor. i know, you worked for him. do you have -- how rare, assuming that is true, how rare is that? or i mean, how powerful is that? how effective is that? >> well, i mean, it's -- i mean, if you look over the term of his being leader, it's pretty effective. i mean, one of the hallmarks of his leadership tenure, which is now since the '06 cycle is he tries to drive as much conference unity as possible. in fact, i think that is the number one pillar of his leadership is i need most of the republicans together, most of the time. i need as many of them onboard every vote we take. he doesn't like it when the conference appears divided in

public. and so, i think he was trying to, once again, drive conference unity here. because most of his conference didn't want to do this. and it's where he wound up, frankly, on impeachment. you know, he was pretty angry about january the 6th and said so on the floor and it's enshrined in the congressional record. he wound up voting to acquit donald trump in the impeachment trial because ultimately that's where most of his conference was. and you don't have such a long tenure as leader by siding with 6 over 44 very often. so i think this was really a continuation of what he sees as his job as the leader and that is to keep as much cohesion among republicans, to keep division out of the public eye. and to keep people together and focused on the issues that they think are going to be most politically advantageous. i mean, candidly, anderson, doesn't make me feel very good because i hated what i saw on january the 6th. >> yeah. >> and it wouldn't bother me if there were a thousand commissions to tell us what we kind of already know. donald trump was at fault. his people were at fault. he incited a mob. they threatened mike pence. et cetera, et cetera. i think we are going to get

that, ultimately, because we already know most of it. >> scott jennings, always appreciate you being with us. thank you. paul as well. thank you so much. unup next, is that senate rejection a sign of an overall decline in democracy, itself? coming up, i will ask about that -- i will talk about that with author of a book published three years ago that foreshadowed some of the actions playing out now. a book called "how democracies die." with cutting-edge tech, world-class interiors, and peerless design... their only competition is each other. the incomparable mercedes-benz suvs. extraordinary runs in the family. lease the glb 250 suv for just $429 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer.

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heard from senate majority

leader chuck schumer at the top of the program decrying senate republicans' rejection of a bipartisan commission to investigate the january-6th riots. and asking his colleagues if they truly remembered what took place. he also said shame on the republican party for trying to sweep the horrors of that day under the rug. because they're afraid of donald trump. well, eerily, two professors of government at harvard, danielle and steven, predicted much of what we have been watching come to fruition in their book "how democracies die." they published it back in 2018. according to a "washington post" article, president biden, quote, became obsessed with the book around that time. and would carry it everywhere. the authors join me, tonight. steve, when your book first came out, you warned that, while many dismissed the former president's all talk, that his talk could have severe consequences. how do you view today's move by senate republicans to block this commission? >> clearly, his talk has -- has had consequences. in fact, it's had consequences

far, far, far more severe than we ever anticipated. when we wrote the book, we did not imagine that the republican party really the entire republican party would not only tru trumpize but become an anti-democratic political force. and unfortunately, as painful as it is to say is where we are today. >> and yet, they don't see themselves as that. which is -- i mean, it -- there seems to be a kind of cognitive dissidence here. >> in public. i mean, very few authoritarian forces anywhere in the world declare themselves openly authoritarian. they always believe or at least purport to believe that they're doing the right thing. that it -- that they are operating in the name of -- of -- of -- of the common good. or democracy. or the law. so, the republicans wouldn't be the first to -- to believe they are doing the right thing. >> daniel, i mean, short of a civil war, is there anything more anti-democratic than an insurrection or an attack

against the capitol on the day that congress is certifying the results of a free and fair presidential election? >> well, it's really, quite striking because it really combines two different things. on the one hand, not accepting the results of elections. which is the core pillar of democracy. and second of all, allowing for violence to take place, political violence, and not unambiguously separating themselves from that. so, you know, in terms of the question of are they really authoritarian even if they don't see they are authoritarian? those are two, key checkmarks against this. >> they have also, now, daniel, taken it a step further, which is, you know, not only was the big lie pushed. but the former president continues to undermine democracy. continues to undermine and talk about, push the big lie. the republican party has embraced the big lie. and they are now legislating, creating legislation, in state houses across the country based on this lie. >> yeah. this is the biggest threat

facing american democracy today is what is happening in u.s. states and republican-led states. you know, one of the points of our book was democracies don't die at the hands of general anymore and military coups. democracies die at the ballot box and i think the biggest threat we face in 2022, if the republicans retake the house, which they very well might, you could very well imagine a 2024 election. no matter who the candidate is, that state legislatures across the country will throw the election to the house of representatives. and you have to remember, will a trumpified -- if the democrat -- even if the democrat has won? >> steve, has there been another point in american history where democracy was as threatened as it potentially is now? yeah. >> beyond the civil war, no. certainly, in no one's living memory, has -- not nixon, not roosevelt, not mccarthyism,

democracy's never been under threat, in this way. there is a -- and we -- we do not consider ourselves particularly alarmist. and we are now convinced that there is a serious chance that the republican party tries to steal the 2024 election. i think 2020 ended up being a dress rehearsal, in which republicans learned that there are levers that they can pull to throw out ballots of -- of -- of -- in rival strongholds based on false allegations of fraud. or based on technicalities. >> daniel, i spoke a lot during the last administration with former cia director, general michael hayden about what he called the thin veneer of civilization, which i thought was a term -- i thought it was a very accurate term. essentially, that the stability of our democratic institutions, that we think is sort of deeply rooted and established and actually -- it's covered by a thin veneer. just how thin is that veneer? >> well, look.

which countries that are democratic tend to survive, a rich country. that's what the social science teaches us. but what i think is, also, clear is those two things are no guarantee. i mean, the reason those two things generally predict that democracies survive is because citizens mobilize. politicians abide by democratic rules and norms. so there's nothing automatic about it. i mean, there's -- we have a kind of self-conception of our society and our democracy that's a machine that runs of itself and i think it is not a machine that runs itself. it requires vigilant action by civilians and politicians to survive. >> i mentioned "the washington post" recently reported president biden has been obsessed with your book. were you aware of that? and what -- what lessons do you hope -- i mean, if it's true, what lessons do you hope that he takes from it? and governs based on? >> we -- we had -- it was mentioned in a biography of -- about him. and also, we had heard, sort of second hand, that he had been

reco recommending it to people on amtrak on the campaign trail. so it's quite striking. we wrote the book for a general audience hoping to shape public debate and so in this sense, i think we hope it has. and i think one of the key lessons i think -- i hope that he learns and that all our senators and congressmen learn is, again, this point that democracy doesn't run by itself. it requires vigilant action. it requires democratic reform and requires constant mending. i guess, just a second point i would make is that one of the key concepts in our book is this notion of neutral toleration where you don't treat your rivals as enemies. you treat them merely as rivals. >> i really appreciate it. and i recommend your book. thank you so much. >> thanks for having us. it is a fascinating read. more fallout from today's decision by senators coming up. a federal judge again lashes out at the former president. and what a striking, new poll is saying about the number of republicans who believe the qanon-conspiracy theories.

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continues to be stoked by multiple media outlets as well as the state and federal party leaders, who are intent -- who are intent on censoring those who dare challenge the former president's version of events. a great many of those defendants have expressed belief this those off-the-wall qanon-conspiracy theories. in a new poll from the public religion research institute, 22% of evangelicals agreed. in total, 15% of all americans subscribe to core-qanon fantasies. that's about 50 million people. perspective now from cnn senior law enforcement analyst and former fbi deputy director, andrew mccabe. also, georgia state university's mia bloom. author of "pastels and pedophiles inside the mind of qanon women." when you do the math, if this poll is accurate, nearly-50-million americans believe in the basic-qanon tenet that there is a cabal of

sex-trafficking pedophiles who are at the heart of media and government in this country. that's extraordinary. >> it is. it's extraordinary and i think it's extraordinarily concerning. right? and i think, in addition to that number from the survey that indicates people who really believe the core beliefs. there was another category of qanon doubters. they refer to it in the survey. so those are people who indicated they don't agree with everything in qanon but they don't reject it, outright. and that was a number of, i think, 55% of republicans fell into that category of qanon doubters. so these are people who kind of know it's wrong but don't dismiss it outright. it's just -- i don't know that we have ever been in a position to confront a challenge like this, to the basic tenets of our democracy. when we have such a significant portion of the country that's willing to believe just ridiculous falsehoods.

they're so invested, i guess, in the -- in the idea of their kind of political team, you know, winning elections and maintaining power. that they are willing to embrace these -- these absolute falsehoods. it's a tough spot we are in. >> mia, what is it about this moment in time? i mean, i know as part of your research, online, people are being radicalized. why now? i mean, i guess, there's always been this strain in this country. but -- but what is -- what about qanon has taken hold so fast? >> qanon really was on its way out. and then, the pandemic seems to have given it, you know, a shot in the heart. what happened was we had, more or less, a flat curve as far as people who believed in qanon. and then, because of the pandemic, either because of the fact that you had people who were home.

and they were online, and they were being exposed to this awful conspiracy on facebook and other social-media platforms. but also, because of things circulating on the internet like plan demmic. what ended up happening is this was the perfect storm for qanon and evangelicals in particular because instead of being able to go to church on sunday and have the kinds of community and -- that going to church offered them. they also stayed home and they were being exposed to these terrible-conspiracy theories that just preyed on them. and so, we have about one-in-four evangelicals that believe in qanon. as well as the fact that we are seeing other religions falling down the rabbit hole. >> according to the same report mentioned earlier, 23% of republicans, 15% of americans, mostly, or completely agree with the statement because things have gotten so far off track, true-american patriots may have

to resort to violence in order to save our country. i mean, again, that's incredibly alarming. >> it is. and, you know, anderson, it's not just a statistical theory. we saw that happen on january 6th. and as these beliefs continue to perpetuate, there's no reason for -- there's no, good reason for us to believe that couldn't happen, again. you know, in many other places around the country. and as our political leaders continue to, kind of, deny what happened on the 6th. and fan the flames of these underlying lies, like the stolen election. we edge closer and closer, i think, to those threats. >> and, mia, i mean, it's one thing to kind of dismiss people who believe far fetched conspiracies as being out on the fringe. but when you see polling like this, you take into account that many qanon lies are, basically, an apocalyptic-world view based on kind of the age-old stereotypes and anti-semitic beliefs, anti-catholic beliefs. do you think people are taking this group seriously enough?

>> well, i think people are beginning to take it seriously. i think it was very easy to dismiss because it seemed so, like, looney tunes at the beginning. but now, because we have two members of congress that are spouting qanon. but also, the fact remains is that it's not just the evangelicals that are falling down the rabbit hole. as many as 18% of white catholics also believe in it. hispanic catholics. and even 12% non-christians. the part that's so shocking to me is how many orthodox jews believe in qanon despite the fact that it's so filled with these anti-semitic tropes. so i think we need to take it seriously. we need to understand that as long as the republican party doesn't disavow qanon. and it keeps, you know, basically, allowing people like marjorie taylor greene to say outrageous things. we are going to see more and more qanon candidates. >> yeah. andrew mccabe, mia bloom, really appreciate your time. thank you. a quick programming note. document inside the qanon

conspiracy is going to air tomorrow evening, 7:00 p.m. eastern on cnn. up next, the pastor preaching lies about covid and the vaccines and the family grieving the loss of a loved one who went to the church, believed the mistruths, with deadly consequences. what does it mean to be a hero? ancestry helped me learn more about the man behind the medal. he was a father to two young daughters. he was a scout and he knew the land better than anyone. he came from italy with nothing for a new life. his family depended on him. he sacrificed so much.

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tonight, a tennessee pastor is under fire for preaching lies about covid and vaccines. we first talked to the pastor last december and he doubled down on his mistruths and months later a family whose uncle attended the church who died is distraught. we went back to the church and wanted to ask the pastor more questions but it didn't go as planned. here's her report. >> if you think for one minute that those political elites actually got that vaccination, you are smoking meth in your mama's basement. >> reporter: pastor greg locke has grown his audience over the last year by calling covid-19 a fake pandemic and the vaccine a scam. >> i ain't getting no sheep shot in my arm, i don't care what biden and the rest of that fake fraudulent administration says. >> i lost my relationship with uncle over the church. >> reporter: how? >> part of it was because i was so vocal with my immediate

family about what i felt about global vision and the spirit i detected from greg that i didn't feel was anything godly. >> reporter: chip davis and his brother billy are singer/songwriters outside nashville. several members of their family have attended locke's church, including their uncle coburn, who died of covid-19 in april 2021. >> he got sick with covid. and he decided he would wait a couple of days before he went for help. and those couple of days were probably critical to whether he was going to survive covid or not. >> reporter: did you go to your uncle's funeral? >> i did not go to my uncle's funeral. >> reporter: why not? >> that would have involved putting myself in the presence of greg locke and a bunch of people that i don't think are thinking properly right now. >> i ain't getting it, i aint't promoting it, and i discourage everybody under this tent to get it because i'm telling you, if you think that you're going to

get healthy over a vaccine that's supposed to do away with a virus that has a 99.9% survival rate, you've been watching too much fox news and cnn at the same time. so, no, look, i have not changed my stance. i haven't softened my stance. i have strengthened my stance against the vaccine. >> i've got to take a break. and take a xanax. i'm serious. my pulse is out the roof right now. >> reporter: can you just explain why? >> the only way he could have been proven wrong is maybe if my uncle had taken the vaccination. if you don't want to take a vaccination, that's entirely up to you, but to spread misinformation about it is dead wrong and it could potentially lead to more loss of life. >> reporter: we interviewed locke in december 2020 when more than 4,900 tennesseeans had already died of covid-19. he told us this.

>> there's no pandemic. covid-19 is not a pandemic. >> reporter: what is a pandemic then? >> not what we are experiencing. i'm 44 years old. we've not had one in my lifetime so i don't know and this is not it. >> reporter: he often talks about that interview with significant embellishment. >> cnn showed up and said we'd like to know why you are so arrogant. why would you be willing to kill every elderly person within 250 miles of nashville. we ain't killed nobody yet, by the way. >> reporter: we went back to locke's church on sunday and were set to interview him the next day, but he canceled on us after we arrived and his publicist said he didn't feel comfortable doing it. locke did not respond to our questions via email but later that day he posted a video to facebook. >> i'm telling you, we almost had to call the police on cnn, on three chicks from cnn. we tried to be super nice, compassionate, the whole deal. they're trying to say we're killing people, we've had a covid outbreak. if you're going to run me out of church with a whip, you better

be a full-grown man, ladies and gentlemen, is what i'm telling you. these chicks, diabolical. jezebel spirit. i'll call it like it is. >> there can be no justice for my uncle. he's gone. if greg would find a modicum of humility and just say, i was wrong. masks have saved lives, it's been proven time and time again and not be belligerent. >> reporter: in december locke also told us this. >> people can call us conspiracy theorists or what they want to, but there are aborted fetal tissue within the context of all of these vaccines. >> reporter: several people at his church told us the same thing. and though fetal cell lines were used to develop the vaccines, they do not contain any fetal tissue. then in february, chip's uncle coburn said in a family group chat that he wouldn't get the vaccine because it had fetal tissue in it. he died two months later. >> this is the family room chat. he said, there's stuff in this vaccine such as aborted fetuses.

as for me, i'll do as i have for many, many years, i'll put my trust in my almighty god. each of you do what you feel. love my family. >> reporter: how did you feel hearing your family members parrot the things that greg locke had said about covid that weren't true? >> it made me angry. >> reporter: and then see them get sick from it. >> it made me very angry. >> reporter: even after what happened to coburn, some members of his family still don't want to get the vaccine. what do you think about coronavirus? >> what do i think about it? >> reporter: mm-hmm. >> it's dangerous, but sometimes it's population control. >> reporter: yeah? >> just like abortion. >> reporter: chip and billy told us they felt like in the last five years that politics had made more tension in your family. do you think that's true? >> they think me and the others are stupid. okay? >> reporter: i don't think that's true. why do you say that? >> well, because of their views

and they can't believe we believe the way we believe. ♪ i'm just waiting on the road ♪ >> i'm actually shocked that we were able to even get together tonight. >> this is what greg locke and that type of cultish religion has robbed me of, i feel like. time with my uncle, because this is very rare. ♪ i'm just waiting on the road ♪ >> reporter: ellie reeve, cnn, mt. juliet, tennessee. >> glory! >> one family in america. thanks to ellie for that report. we'll be right back. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today.

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we wish everyone a safe memorial day weekend. the news continues. i want to hand it over to our good friend, michael smerconish. michael? >> anderson, thanks so much. i'm michael smerconish in for chris cuomo. and welcome to "prime time." so there will be no 9/11-style investigation into the the events of january 6th. as expected, there were not ten senate republicans willing to go along with such an inquiry. at first blush, it sounds bewildering, disinterested, even cold. when the 35 republican senators who today blocked the january 6th commission go home for their memorial day recess, i'm sure they're going to take a moment