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all it takes is the slightest push in just the right place and that will be the tipping point that changes everything. ♪ ♪ new tonight, the former vice president mike pence talking about the deadly january 6th insurrection at the capitol. and putting some distance

between himself and trump who incited the riot. also a source telling cnn that trump is asking advisers if he can get back into the oval office and resume the presidency. ahh! that he's holding out hope that he can be reinstated as president outside of the election process. a source calling the whole thing very dangerous. plus, sources saying the justice department's investigating congressman matt gaetz for obstruction of justice. i want to bring in attorney george conway. he has a scathing piece calling out senators as cowards for blocking the commission to investigate the january 6th attack. thank you for joining. i really appreciate you joining us this evening. >> thanks for having me. >> let's talk about the vice president speaking out about the, about january 6th. i want to get your reaction. watch and then we'll talk. >> as i said that day, january

6th was a dark day in the history of the united states capitol. but thanks to the swift action of the capitol police and federal law enforcement, violence was quelled. the capitol was secured. and that same day we reconvened the congress and did our duty under the constitution and the laws of the united states. you know, president trump and i have spoken many times since we left office. and i don't know if we'll ever see eye to eye on that day. >> so he says that he might never see eye to eye with trump on january 6th. what is your take on this story? >> well, that is certainly true. they're never going to see eye to eye. pence upheld the constitution and trump was ready to disbar him. and that's just remarkable how pence can say, we're having, we won't see eye to eye about that. this is the most fundamental thing you can possibly disagree

about. if you are a public official of the federal government, particularly, the two highest elected officials in the united states of america. we won't see eye to eye. one is talking about overthrowing the constitution. one was trying to overthrow constitution by encouraging people to march up to capitol hill so they could stop the counting of the electoral votes. the other man to his credit, upthey told constitution and did his constitutional duty. this is saying, they don't see eye to eye on it like it is another disagreement about policy is kind of a remarkable, remarkable understatement, if you will, of what happened. >> we don't see eye to eye on the mob that you incited to come and wanted to kill me. yeah. >> exactly. hang mike pence, they were channelling. it is incredible. incredible to watchful but pence deserves credit for doing under enormous pressure, doing the

right thing that day. he did the right thing. he deserves credit for that. >> let's talk about this national reporting. charles cook is backing up maggie haberman, saying that the former president really believes he will be reinstated. he adds that conservatives should not brush this off. let me quote here. such temptations should be avoided. we are not talking about a fringe figure within the republican tent but about a man who hopes to make support as he decides whom to endorse in 2022 and 2024. most republicans aren't standing up to trump even though some at least seem legitimately alarmed. what's going on? >> they're just afraid of trump. they're afraid of trump and they're afraid of his supporters. the large percentage of republicans who have been deceived by trump, or willingly

deceived, frankly. and they are, they fear this man who cost them the presidency, cost them the house of representatives in 2018, cost them senate in 2021. and you know, he's nuts. absolutely crackers. i mean, for him to be going around saying that he's going to be reinstated in august. i mean, that's cuckoo for cocoa puffs. and yet they are terrified of him. >> a better question is how seriously should we take this? because listen. i walked to the barber shop in new york city and there were people talking to each other on the street. but i'm not putting them on television, i'm not exploiting them by putting them on television and reporting them. you said cuckoo for cocoa puffs. how seriously should we be taking the rantings with someone not dealing with reality? >> both not serious justly and

seriously. not seriously in that it won't happen. there is no mechanism by which it could happen. seriously in that there are people out there who are actually peddling this. there is a whole conservative ecosystem that has developed of disinformation that washeimer charged by the former president. and he's getting this from somewhere. and we heard some of it from the crazy lawyer, what's her name. >> sydney powell? >> and we heard this bizarre statement over the weekend by michael nine. and this stuff is out there. there are people who actually may believe this. and you've seen the polls about, you know, some significant percentage of republicans, i don't know, 10 or 20% believing in qanon. this is the same thing.

he's a former president of the united states. he hasn't uttered this publicly but his people haven't denied that he's been talking about this with people. and the fact that there hasn't been denied tells that you there is something to the fact that he is having these conversations which is absolutely insane. so on one level, you have to take it with a grain of salt because it is completely nuts. on another level, the fact that enough people might be willing to believe, are willing to believe the big lie of 2020, that the election was stolen and might, you know, believe that somehow donald trump should be restored to his proper place in the presidency. we saw the violence on jab 6th. it could be violence again. >> remember, i said people on the street, i meblt people talking to themselves on the street. i don't exploit them by putting them to television but i would like to offer help saying there are people with issues. donald trump has an issue. he thinks -- let's talk about the main reason we have you

here. this is in your main piece in the "washington post." it said the senate gop had no reason to block this january 6th commission. you're right. four years of trump have led the republican party, a declining sect dominated by crack pots, charlottans and cowards. among them, they bare the most blame. how do you negotiate with these who are not acting in good faith and not in reality as well? >> honestly, i don't know. i mean, you would have thought that after the january 6th insurrection, they would finally have been done with donald trump. and it almost seemed like they were. and even after they acquitted him in the second impeachment trial, you had mitch mcconnell immediately going to the floor of the senate and talking about what a terrible thing trump did the that day. that he was darrell 96th his

duties. that he was gleefully watching the violence on television. and you thought maybe they were turning corner even though they were used to convict trump on the meritless theory that you can't convict a former president and bar him from office. there was some basis to believe that maybe they had turned the corner on him and now they don't want to even talk about it. this vote last week didn't ask them to do anything other than let somebody else look into the facts. and they're so terrified that more facts will come out about what donald trump was doing all day in the oval office while he was watching tv, and the violence was up on the hill. they're so afraid of being tarred by that. they have a reason to be afraid of being tarred by it. they let this guy stay in office by not removing him the first time and they let him go the

second time. and they're refusing to basically speak out about the big lie now. >> the main stream, the fringe has become the main stream in the republican party. it is a american to have you on. >> thank you. so talks now reaching a critical stage between president biden and republicans. let's discuss now with a staff writer for the atlantic. he is the author of battle for the soul, schneid the democrats' campaign to defeat trump. good to have you here. thank you so much for joining. >> thanks for having me. >> president biden is making some ciserious concessions in h infrastructure bill. he is saying he would forego changes to the 2017 tax cuts. at left for now. what is your take on the biden strategy? >> what biden is dealing, with he feels the absolute need to

get things done. there is a conversation that i had with him in the book that was about a week before trump's inauguration. which he said to me, what democrats fail to do, we stop talking to people, we stop doing things for people. when i talked to him with the conversation that ends the book, he comes back and says we need to make sure we're having an impact on people's lives. if not, that's how trumpism creeps in. how did biden balance that with this that he's developed in the moment. pandemic and do it in a way so he doesn't seem like the joe biden who everybody thought he was going into the presidency. the guy looking to make a deal no matter what. >> do you think president biden will have to cut bait if republicans don't come along? was that time three weeks ago or is it coming soon?

>> look. they're making offers here and i think it is important to look at the larger strategy. this thing that he has said, aides have said, that doesn't necessarily mean getting votes in the republican house and senate. you can see there were no votes in the senate. it remains. that's the constituentsy. republicans say at least this is having an effect on my life. and how they do that with the infrastructure bill, it is not the immediacy of the covid relief. that's what is ahead of them. >> we're learning that president biden reached out to prominent democratic economist larry summers to discuss the economy. he's worried about risks of

inflation. what do you think of that? you never saw that happen in the trump administration? >> or in a lot of administrations, to do it quite that way. larry summers is a problem for democrats. at this point, what he keeps talking about is what democrats even in the main stream don't really want to talk about nil. so biden has an approach. you see, whether he's sitting in a dininger, not doing much of that anymore, or talking to them, trying to bring them into the goal. i traced in the book how this, even though it wasn't so strong it worked pretty well for him in the campaign. now he has to see if it works in the presidency. >> don't be offended if i plug your book again. >> no. >> the book is called the battle

for the soul. battle for the soul. inside the democrats' campaign to defeat trump. battle for the soul. inside the democrats' campaigns to defeat trump. best on the book. i want to bring in now cnn commentator and ron brownstein. good evening. you're just putting your glasses on? >> yeah. >> yeah? >> doing a little research reading. >> yeah. he's doing his research up until -- you're like me. cramming for finals. amanda, i just spoke. i hope you saw my interview with the police sergeant, defended the capitol. he is describing the day and republican lawmakers refusing to investigate. >> i have video proof that what happened there was not a

concert. it was not fourth of july. i worked those events and nobody beat me or anybody else. but i do think those who came to the capitol police building, i mean, to the capitol and assist us with securing the building, even though we feel betrayed, we feel insulted. to the very minimum that everybody should agree is how to prevent this from happening again. >> how can republican lawmakers ignore the very people who put their lives on the line to defend our democracy? >> i don't know how they sleep at night. i really don't. i don't know how they walk into their offices, pass security lines, and continue about their work knowing that these men and

women stepped up to defend them. and their colleagues, if not them, themselves. are openly denialing it. look at that speech from mike pence. what is he doing in new hampshire? i think he wants to be president himself. even the way that mike pence who probably considers himself one of the good guys, right? because did he his duty and set identified the election. the way that he has his voice, there was a tragedy that day. that was of the trump-pence' own making and he takes credit for the fact that law enforcement came and made it all go away. as if everything ended well. no, it did not. no, it did not. men and women were hurt. now they have to go on camera and ask people, please, with these senators to acknowledge their pain. and so i mean, even the good guys, the people who think they did the right thing like mike

pence, are not doing the right thing. and he is 100% entitled to his telling the. they are justified. they are right. and i am so sorry that he has toley on it camera to get people to acknowledge it. >> our reporter spoke with senator joe manchin today and he made it cheer, he is not ready for democrats to go it alone. he wants to work on republicans on infrastructure. >> i'm just saying, they don't get a deal. >> my friend, this is a united states senate. the most deliberate body in the world. and it was by design. if anyone understands the process, it is president joe biden. he understands and gets it well.

we've got to keep our country together west can't grow further apart. we just can't do that. that takes a lot of time, energy and patience. >> what is he talking about? with all due respect, has he met senator mitch mcconnell? >> both joe manchin -- >> say that again. >> more disingenuous. both joe manchin, it has no bearing to actual reality. sinama said it was created to encourage compromise. the fbi was used for a century to deny civil rights to black people. and manchin, you know, is basically, he is in a state that is a republican state at this point. trump won it by 40 points. he wants to go as far as he possibly can to appear that they

exhausted every avenue for bipartisanship on every issue before he is willing to go with democrats. and democrats don't know. i was talking to another senator yesterday. they don't know what is the point, it is even more pernicious on voting, the only changes made to federal voting laws should come fond they agree. he is giving republicans in washington a veto over whether or not republicans are doing on a party line basis in state after state after state. they are passing these restrictive laws. and manchin is saying, they should respond only if republicans agreed to do it with them. look. it is not clear that this is obviously a position that is extremely difficult for the rest of the democratic caucus. but no one knows exactly what is

the point at which he will move, if he will move at all. on infrastructure, yes. why do they keep coddling him? why do they call him out and make him feel the weight of it? oh, come on. why don't at the just ask him in. >> you are the guy restricting the rid the rote that don't you understand what is at stake here? >> don, it may come to that. the last time it was a 50/50 senate, george w. bush did that to jim jefferson from vermont. he became an independent and flipped control of the body to the democrats. so there's only so far they can push manchin. >> then won't they know. he is essentially --

>> if you don't have manchin in west virginia -- >> maeblt, no! >> tell me the name of your book again. >> her book or my book? >> i know what her book is. gas lighting. >> rock me on the water. >> we love it when you know who lies to us. rock me on the water and gas light. i appreciate it. >> roting rights across the coun country. we'll talk about just how crazy things are getting, next. you already pay for car insurance, why not take your home along for the ride?

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tonight the sham audit of votes in arizona continues, fueled by the big lie. that as cnn reports the personality of the my pillow founder mike lindell claimed the

former president could be rein reinstated. i want to bring in arizona secretary of state katie hobbs. hi, thank you. we're in crazy town. good evening. thank you for joining us. the former president desperately trying to claim he'll be reinstated. he won't. just yesterday three pennsylvania lawmakers toured the arizona audit. one of them is a state senator, doug. the "washington post" is reporting that he has had the ear of president trump. does that concern you, katie? >> well, this whole entire sham audit concerns me. and we've been saying for quite some time that they are writing the play book in arizona to take this across the country. and we've been talking about how does this end, and i don't know that it does. the longer they drag this out, the more money they're able to continue making on it but they're also able to undermine

the public's confidence which is a tool in future elections. they are laying the ground work for future elections. this whole entire thing is concerning. >> speaking of -- can you use the machines and the things they're working with again? are not they vulnerable to hacking and all that? are you going to have to get new machines? >> certainly the chain of custody of the plmaricopa count tabulation system has been irrepairably broken by handing it over to these individuals where they kept it locked in a room that didn't have cameras. we have no idea what they did do it and there's no way to find out what they did to it to know whether or not the equipment is compromised. based on guidance, this kind of harm to the chain of custody does render it unusable for

future elections. so yes. for the 2022 election, maricopa county will have to figure out how to replace this equipment. >> our time is a bit short tonight. we like having you. thank you for your perspective. we'll be right back. magenta? magenta! (crying) magenta! (announcer) the epson ecotank. no more cartridges. just lots of ink. print whatever makes you happy. the epson ecotank. just fill and chill.

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gaetz' ex-girlfriend in october of 2020 about the ongoing investigation and they received material about that discussion. joining me now to discuss, a state attorney for palm beach county, florida. good to have you. how are you doing? >> i'm doing great, don. thanks for having me back. >> let's talk about this new reporting. the investigation is wider and deeper than previously known. what is adding obstruction of justice mean for gates? >> wrlgs it is really witness tampering. it depends on the evidence. to tell a witness to lie, to mislead federal investigators, that could get him a charge where co-face up to 20 years in federal prison. although because he has no prior record, it would be more like two years, according to the federal sentencing guidelines. you're right. i think the importance of this shows that you this investigation is much broader than we had thought. a lot of the attention has been paid to child sex trafficking. that's the big whammy punishable up to life in prison and it

contains a lot of salacious allegations. but it is more than that. potential witness tampering, potential theft. after all, joel greenberg has pled guilty tom. finance violations and then the trim to the bahamas which could lead to pay to pay bribery. so a lot of headaches ahead for matt gaetz. >> this is politico's reporting that investigators are looking at a phone call he had with a witness in the sex crimes investigation. the call reportedly originated between the witness and gaetz' ex-girlfriend. at some point gaetz joined. we don't know what was discussed on the call. what is the potential obstruction here? what does this mean? this phone call and so on? >> if he tried to tell a witness who was about to speak to federal investigators to withhold information, to change her story, to even delay talking

to investigators -- >> so hold. on this is the same witness that we talked about. this isn't a different witness, correct? is this the one in question? >> this is a witness that knows the 17-year-old girl and is friends with matt gaetz' ex-girlfriend. this is not the ex-girlfriend. >> on the call, you have two people. the ex-girlfriend and this other witness. and both of them reportedly are speaking with federal authorities. also, this tells why you this investigation has lasted so long. i know a lot of people are concerned about the length of the investigation but this is about more than whether matt gaetz had sex with an underaged girl. you're talking about a potential host of other crimes that need to be investigated. >> and he has denied any and all wrongdoing, correct? >> yes. but he also has a history. you remember the night before, michael cohen was set to testify before a house committee in 2019, matt gaetz directed a

tweet at michael cohen that that, and i have it written down. it asked him. do your wife and father-in-law know about your girlfriends? maybe tonight would be a good time form chat. it was such a controversial tweet that he was forced to delete it and apologize. the house ethics committee investigated and admonished him. they found that it fell short of witness tampering. i don't think it will be as lucky this time when it comes to federal prosecutors. >> interesting. i remember that. i had forgotten. you remind us that what you believe was an attempt before and it was investigated by the congress. thank you, sir. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> so they said there were separate standards for black and white players when it dime dementia examinations, okay? then they were sued. a former speaker speaks up on the brewing fight against the nfl.

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the nfl agreed to end the controversial practice of race norming, that's what it is called, when evaluating claims of dementia or other forms of brain impairment by players through race norming. that's what they call it. the cognitive tests of former

black players are measured by using data that assumes a lower level of brain function to start with. so former black players called it discrimination. let's talk about this and more. this is a reporter who covers "the new york times." covers the nfl for the "new york times." i'm so glad that you're. on we've been wanting to do this. this is such an amazing story that you've been following and writing about. explain what race norming is and how was the nfl using it. >> so basically, set up two sets of criteria. one for black players and one for white players to make assumptions about their cognitive ability years ago and then used to it compare with it how they're doing now. and as up in your intro, the black players were presumed to have lower cognitive ability so that to get an award under this concussion settlement, they had to have much steeper cognitive decline compared to a white

player assumed to be according to the standards, more intelligent or have higher cognitive ability. and any small decline, or smaller decline would have led them to get a cash award from this concussion settlement. the lawyers who brought one of the first cases last year said that white players were getting approved at an estimated two to three times more as a consequence, and to think about the consequences, there's about 70% of the nfl right now are black players. so white players, black players, having a harder time getting an award from the concussion settlement is another way of saying the nfl was trying to cut them out of it to save money. >> was this based purely on race? >> yes. well, that's sort of the, on its face, just judging players by their race, is discrimination if you've got one for blacks and one for whites.

it raises questions about what happens if the player is biracial, hispanic, all sorts of complications with just having two sets of categories. but it gained out. the nfl knew that it was going to be on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars and it was looking for ways to make it harder for retired players to get money that was in the class action settlement. and dementia is the largest category of claims put in there. as we said, the majority of players in the nfl and retired players are black players. so if you make it harder for the black players to get dementia claims approved, you'll keep the cost down. and i think that's what their calculus is, or has been. they've been accused of doing. >> that is, that is messed up. the nfl has denial that had the use of race-based norms was discriminatory toward black fares. here's what it said in rt pafl everyone agrees race-based norms

shall be replaced but experts are working to solve this decades old issue. the replacement norms will be app prospective and i and retrospectively. so the question is do you expect to see it changed retroactively and could it apply to hundreds of claims? it could. we don't know with this new model for looking at players' cognitive abilities will be. they claim it will be race neutral. that's encouraging. but we don't know the specifics. you've got about 7,000 players that took some of the cognitive tests offered in this which is a action suit. many of them didn't know why their scores were scored the way they were. many of them didn't go ahead and file claims. so it is hard topping precisely

how many players could end up getting them. but it is fair to say that hundreds and maybe thousands could end up having a claim approved. now, of course, the devil is in the details, so to speak, in this new formula they want to develop. >> ken is the reporter here for the "new york times." i would encourage you to go check out his work in the "times." we had him on. great work. appreciate it. >> so i want to bring in now former nfl player, ken jenkins, and his wife, dr. amy lewis. leaders in the fight to end race norming. how are you? >> good. >> what's happening? >> not much. and a whole hell of a lot. let's get to you. ken, when and how did you suspect that black players with cognitive impairment were being treated differently? >> i was listening to my wife in

a group that she's in online with some of the other wives and the stories were coming out every other night about a player who had been denied, and the red time it took get a settlement. and how it had to be tested and retested. all the while, they were raising the kids and bringing in the money and in some cases, having to take care of the men. seo he i just followed their lead. i'm getting way too much credit for this. it is the wives who brought this to the forefront. >> i'm going on bring in your wife in a minute. since i did have the other ken on, the reporter, how grateful for him are you? >> it's fantastic. i just want to say, you say that all the time. i don't trust the nfl to do anything that is going to hurt them financially. what i'm really afraid of now, they'll lower the bar for, and

make it tougher for all players to qualify for any settlement. but then they're going to say it's fair. so i don't trust them. they're smart, big, a lot of power and money. and i don't see, they gave themselves a side door out of this one but they got caught. and we're going to see what the next side door looks like. it always, there is always something. >> so as an m.d., please tell us what more can you tell us about this concept of race norming? >> i'm actually a doctor of chinese medicine. i want to clarify that. i'm here as a wife, as you know. and i feel very blessed because my husband right now is cognitively healthy. but so many of my friends, i've listened to the struggles and their stories. and it is just heart breaking. and we felt like we were the

ones because we don't have a claim against the nfl, that we could speak out and so many of their family and friends could not. >> so quickly. if you will, how did and you the other wives, you have a group that >> we had a casual group. a group of wives, who are friends. our husbands are former teammates. so, we got together, and we wanted to really support each other. and as a group, we developed a petition, that we put online, change.org, and we got 50,000 signatures, a whole lot of support. >> wow. >> for our husbands. and for the struggles that they were going through. and the idea, how dare the nfl decide that black players are cognitively less than white players? they play the same game. they were in the same locker room.

and yet, the fact that, for economic reasons, they decide -- >> yeah. >> yep. >> and i want to say this. i been wanting to say this all night. but it's like them saying that chris cuomo's smarter than you just because he's white. >> well, we know that ain't true. we know the truth about that. you guys are great. thank you so much. and look. thanks for appearing and keep us updated on what happens. okay? look. you speaking of chris, in all seriousness, there's safety in relationships. when you develop relationships like the women did online, look at what happens when you have that sort of camaraderie and -- and togetherness. so, thank you, both. >> don, he cannot represent us anymore. >> okay. all right. thank you. we will have you back. keep us updated. we'll be right back, everyone. the perspective to see more? at morgan stanley, a global collective of thought leaders offers investors a broader view.

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if you have obstructive sleep apnea and you're often tired during the day, you could be missing out on amazing things. find them near the sunosi can help you stay awake for them. once daily sunosi improves wakefulness in adults with excessive daytime sleepiness due to obstructive sleep apnea. sunosi worked for up to nine hours at 12 weeks in a clinical study. sunosi does not treat the cause of osa or take the place of your cpap. continue to use any treatments or devices as prescribed by your doctor. don't take sunosi if you've taken an maoi in the last 14 days. sunosi may increase blood pressure and heart rate, which can increase your risk of heart attack, stroke, heart failure, or death. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure. sunosi can cause symptoms such as anxiety, problems sleeping, irritability, and agitation. other common side effects include headache, nausea, and decreased appetite. tell your doctor if you develop any of these, as your dose may need to be adjusted or stopped. amazing things happen during the day. sunosi can help you stay awake for whatever amazes you.

visit sunosi.com and talk to your doctor about sunosi today. i have a convenience store delivery for super grover? oh, yeah, he said just put it there-

ah! perfect timing. now get more than just restaurant deliveries. doordash. ah, so soft. i believe two hours of riveting television, cable news, where else do you get this? where you go, from an american hero, to a black player, who feels that he is being -- an nfl player, who feels like he is being discriminated against, and his intelligence is being questioned. nowhere else. "don lemon tonight." thanks for watching. our coverage continues.

there's a lot of talk about getting back to the way things were. but what does that mean? does it mean getting back out here to feed the world? is it about getting back to this commute? this community? or this ingenuity? for folks who run with us, there is no going back. because they've never stopped working towards a better tomorrow. this is the sound of an asthma attack... together, we run forward. that doesn't happen. towards a better tomorrow. this is the sound of better breathing. fasenra is a different kind of asthma medication. it's not a steroid or inhaler. fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it's one maintenance dose every 8 weeks. it helps prevent asthma attacks, improve breathing, and lower use of oral steroids. nearly 7 out of 10 adults with asthma may have elevated eosinophils.

fasenra is designed to target and remove them. fasenra is not a rescue medication or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. this is the sound of fasenra. ask your doctor about fasenra. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. ♪ the light. ♪ it comes from within. it drives you. and it guides you. to shine your brightest. ♪ as you charge ahead.

illuminating the way forward. a light maker. recognizing that the impact you make comes from the energy you create. introducing the all-electric lyriq. lighting the way. ♪