what you -- looks like you had a question. did you? >> how do you think the former president will resonate, in terms of the current state of play, within his party? >> you mean, the interview he did tonight? >> yeah. >> whoo. that's a big question. well, i think, look. i think, people -- the more people see of the former president, i think, the better. i think there is some need for clarifications about -- clarification about what he -- why he did some things. why he didn't do some things. and by the way, i will have the person who was closest to him during president -- the presidency, beside his wife, valerie jarrett is coming up on the show. i will ask her this question. i do think there needs to be some clarification because believe -- i mean, donald trump was, you know, a direct, you know, sort of answer to some people to barack obama. i, you know, personally, i think that it -- it's water -- what

happened is what happened. and i understand what happened and we have -- we have debated and talked about it. but i was -- for me, i was most happy -- i was happiest to see him with the young men with anderson, interviewing the young men about what they're going to do. and his question was profound. what -- what do we need to do? how do we make it better for you? that -- that's what i was concerned about. the politics part of it, i'm not. he did what he could, as president. he had -- you know, he had, you know, conflicts. and roadblocks. and situations, that other presidents didn't have because he was the first -- he was the first one. anytime you're the first one of anything, i'm not just saying he just happened to be the first black one. you know, the -- the rules are different, for you. so, you know, i think it'll resonate. i think there'll -- there'll be some criticism about, that he should have done more. and he should have known better that republicans didn't want to work with him. and this should be a lesson for joe biden. >> i think, it's really interesting that, he sees what is wrong with the state of play, within his own party today.

>> oh, yeah. >> but he doesn't prescribe a solution. and i find that to be very common. even listening to senator chris murphy, today, you know, you know him from connecticut. very smart guy. you have had him on your show. he was saying we got to find a way to get 60 votes because if we're not going to get rid of the filibuster, 50 votes is irrelevant. we got to figure out a way to get to 60. and while he is intellectually correct, it is such an odd-political reckoning. you're not getting 60 votes, on anything, because you guys are an open hand in the democratic party. you're coalition. you're splayed. whereas, this iss the party of trump. they are a fist. they're coming at you as one, because they play to win. and i don't think they get it. and even listening to obama tonight, he doesn't talk that way. it's not about doing what you have to do, to keep power and use power to fulfill a mandate. i don't hear it, in him.

and no criticism in terms of the intellectualism of it. but the politics of it. i don't know that, that party, even its best agent, understands how to win in this environment. >> well, chris, i mean, quite frankly, i have been saying that for a long time, and getting criticized for it. even from, you know, democrats who are currently in power, are not happy. i just -- i just -- i just think, if you are looking at the -- just the raw politics of it. which i have said, republicans are better. doesn't mean that they're better people or -- i'm not saying any -- democrats or republicans are better. but they're better at the -- the politicking, right? they're better at sticking together. and -- and, you know, republicans fall in line. democrats don't. and that was part of what the former president said. democrats, many times, you know, they have these purity tests about everything and they're holier than thou about -- about many things. and you can't have that. pol -- the -- the first rule of politics, that democrats need to figure out is that, it's about

winning. it's not about winning arguments. it's about winning elections. it's not -- it's not about being -- who's more woke, than the next person. it' it's about winning. and when you win, that's when you get your policies in place. that's how you do it, and i just don't -- i just think that they, you know, right now, for the most part, democrats are more concerned about, you know, who can do -- who's more on their side. with what's right and, you know, all this stuff. i just don't -- i just think that they should be more like republicans. they need to be more cunning, as i have said. and they need to focus more on winning elections, rather than winning arguments. and trying to, you know, hey. you know, who is better than this person? and this person is more -- what's the word i'm looking for? um -- >> i'm not offering any suggestions. >> -- virtue -- virtue signaling. stop all the virtue signaling

and win. that's it. as simple as that. >> well, look, and i get why people will reject that. i'm just saying, lis btening to obama tonight, he is incredibly knowledgeable. he was in there. >> obama's a nice person. that's not -- people like president obama and part of why people like him, he was such a great president and people loved him, except for the far right, they didn't like him. is because he is a kind, he is a decent person. i have to be honest with you. i don't see that much from republican politicians. look who they're -- they're standing by. look who they are backing, even with all the lying. i don't think that the former president, meaning obama, would do that, if democrats were doing and standing for -- look. he is criticizing his own party, right there, in that interview. >> yeah. a little bit. look. he got beat out -- he got beat up by his party when he was in there, also. >> he got -- he got beat up by black people. he's too respectable. he's not leaning in enough. he's not hard enough. he's not tough enough. he got all those things, so the pressure came from all sides when he was president. that's why i say the rules were different for him.

>> but just hearing him -- well, i mean, there is no question about that. look. all you need to do is just look at the ezra klein interview from last week. about how his numbers -- you can talk to valerie about this -- his numbers, every time he would talk about policing, with any kind of edge of criticism, would tank. because white america doesn't want to hear a black man telling them. i mean, that was a no brainer, by the way. you got a harvard professor, on his own front porch. but i'm just saying, it was interesting tonight. where, yeah, they all -- they all see what's wrong. i just don't see any fix coming, anytime soon. that's just me. but i look forward to your conversation with valerie jarrett. >> learn how to throw a punch. and to be -- >> got to learn how to take a punch. you got to learn how to fend with the next blow is coming the next time. and you have to figure out how to return it. or at least learn not to get hit. you got to get some more floyd mayweather in you. >> i didn't want to offend

anybody. that's it. all of them. all of them. the current democrats. the current ones, who, i don't know what they are, democrats, look, they need to -- as i said, bipartisanship for the sake of bipartisanship is empty. our democracy is on the line, right now. and that's what we need to be focused on. not just, well, this is what we are going to do. look, if you don't have a party that won't vote for, you know, a study on the insurrection. what makes you think they are going to stand up and do the right thing? i just don't see it. >> the space i haven't heard explored is do a one off. harry reid did it and i don't remember manchin going crazy about that. >> i don't disagree with that. >> do a one off. or at least just return the rules to what they used to be. that are more akin to the nostalgia that senator manchin has for senator bird who put together some of the parliamentary procedures around the filibuster in mid -- you know, in mid-'60s, '70s where make it harder to filibuster. talk to you later. this is "don lemon tonight."

thanks for watching, everyone. and what we are hearing from the former president -- we just talked about it -- what we are hearing from former-president barack obama tonight should make every-single american sit up and take notice. it should, because this is really, really serious. our democracy is in peril. and we are, right now, in a crisis. the crisis is, now -- i know some people say, oh, the crisis is on the horizon. no, we are in a crisis. america is threatened by the big lie that fueled the insurrection at the seat of our government, the united states capitol. wasn't a field trip. wasn't a picnic. there it is, right there. america, divided by race, even a year after protestors demanding justice for george floyd flooded our streets. and the assault on what may be our most precious right as americans, the right to vote. that assault. spreading all across this country. former-president barack obama speaking out on all of it, tonight. i want you to listen to what he told anderson, about what's going on in amore and more stat

ledge legislatures across the country. listen. >> are we still just teetering? or are we in crisis? >> i think -- i think, we have to worry, when one of our major-political parties is willing to embrace a way of thinking about our democracy. that would be unrecognizable and unacceptable, even five years ago or a decade ago. when you look at some of the laws that are being passed, at the state-legislative level. where, legislators are, basically, saying, we're going to take away the certification of election processes from civil servants. you know, secretaries of state. people who are just counting ballots. and we're going to put it in the hands of partisan legislatures who may, or may not, decide the -- that a state's electoral

votes should go to one person or another. and when that's, all, done against the backdrop of large numbers of republicans having been convinced, wrongly, that there was something fishy about the last election. we've got a problem. and -- and, you know, this is part of the reason why, i think, the conversation around voting rights, at a national level, is important. >> it is important. and as the assault on voting rights, former-president obama is talking about, gathers strength, the for the people act is stalled in the senate. and let's face it here. nothing's going to happen, if senate republicans continue to obstruct, like they did when they wouldn't even allow a debate on the commission to investigate the january-6th insurrection at the capitol. if they put their own, political lives ahead of the democracy they were elected to defend, nothing's gonna happen. >> and all those congressmen started looking around.

and they said, you know what? i'll lose my job. i'll -- i'll get voted out of office. another way of saying this is i didn't expect that there would be so-few people who would say, well, i don't mind losing my office. cause this is too important. america's too important. >> some things are more important than -- >> our democracy's too important. we didn't see that. now, i -- i -- you know, i'm still the hope-and-change guy. and so, my hope is that the tides will turn. but that does require each of us to -- to -- to understand that this -- this experiment in democracy is not self-executing. it -- it doesn't happen, just on automatically. it happens, because each-successive generation says these values, these truths, we

hold self-evident. this is important. we're going to invest in it, and sacrifice for it, and will stand up for it even when it's not politically convenient. >> you heard him. heard him. democracy doesn't just happen, automatically. we have to stand up for it. what kind of democracy do we have, when the people we elect to represent us won't even stand up for the right to vote? the for the people act hanging by a thread, now that democratic senator joe manchin says that he won't vote for it. slamming the door in an op-ed this weekend, saying, quote, i believe that partisan voting legislation will destroy the already-weakened binds of our democracy. and for that reason, i will vote against the for the people act. furthermore, i will not vote to weaken or eliminate the filibuster. okay. that -- a lot -- we will talk about all of that, this evening. i'm not going to go on that much about it, now. except, for a little bit. okay. and then, joe manchin goes on to act like he can make bipartisanship happen, just by,

i don't know, wishing. really, really hard. >> senator mcconnell. the head of the republicans, in the senate, says that he's, 100%, focused on blocking the biden agenda. question. aren't you being naive about this continuing talk about bipartisan cooperation? >> i'm not being naive. i think he's, 100%, wrong in trying to block all the good things that we're trying to do for america. i'm going to continue to keep working with my bipartisan friends, and hopefully, we can get more of them. >> hopefully, hopefully, hopefully. chris wallace used exactly the right word, naive. manchin is calling for a narrower bill. the john lewis voting rights act, which would allow the federal government to challenge states that make changes to their election laws. but even that stands little-to-no chance of winning over ten republicans. yet, senator manchin seems to be willing to sacrifice democrats' hope of getting anything done, with a minority party that

refuses to take bipartisanship seriously. he is trying to be bipartisan with a party that refuses to take bipartisanship seriously. all, because of his defense of the filibuster. okay. i want you to listen to this. right? closely. this is dr. martin luther king jr., 1963. this is what he had to say about the filibuster, way back then. >> i think the tragedy is that we have a congress, with a senate, that has a minority of misguided senators. who will use the filibuster to keep the majority of people from even voting. they won't let the majority of senators vote. and certainly, they wouldn't want the majority of people to vote because they know they do not represent the majority of american people. >> 1963. dr. king.

now, this is the former-president barack obama. what he calls the filibuster. a relic of jim crow. >> and if this takes eliminating the filibuster, another jim-crow relic, in order to secure the god-given rights of every american. then, that's what we should do. >> so, the filibuster, which joe manchin is determined to defend, has a long, disgraceful history of being abused to block civil-rights and voting-rights bills. used to preserve slavery in the -- in the 1840s before it was called the filibuster. used to defeat an anti-lynching bill in the 1920s. in 1957, senator strom thurmond took to the floor to filibuster the civil-rights act. speaking for a record-24 hours and 18 minutes. also, in 1964, the longest filibuster in senate history. 60 days almost detailed that landmark civil-rights act.

1983. jesse helms, senator then. finally, dropped his filibuster attempting to block the bill declaring martin luther king jr. day a federal holiday. is the filibuster really worth more than voting rights for millions of people? bipartisanship, just for the sake of bipartisanship? is it really worth knuckling under to a republican party that refuses to do the right thing, if it could cost them votes? that's how divided we are, tonight. america, the divided. america, the polarized. everybody, in their own echo chambers. and it seems, nothing divides us more than race. here's former-president barack obama. what he has to say about all of that tonight. >> there are certain right-wing media venues, for example, that monetize and capitalize on stoking the fear and resentment

of a white population. that is witnessing a changing america, and seeing demographic changes. and -- and do everything they can to give people a sense that -- um -- their way of life is threatened, and that people are trying to take advantage of them. and we're seeing it, right now, right? where you would think, with all the public-policy debates that are taking place right now, that, you know, the republican party would be engaged in a significant debate about, how are we going to deal with the economy? and what are we going to do about climate change? and what are we going to do about, low and behold, the -- the single-most important issue to them, apparently, right now, is critical-race theory. who knew, that was the threat to our republic? but, those debates are powerful, because they get at what story do we tell about ourselves? >> like i said, america, the

divided. former-president barack obama, warning us. we're in crisis, tonight. democracy is in peril. and we're going to have to decide what we're going to do about that. what do we do about it? so, will america choose to defend democracy? valerie jarrett is here, next. as her former boss has this warning tonight. >> all of us, as citizens, have to recognize that the path towards an undemocratic america is not going to happen in just one bang. it -- it happens in a series of steps. finding new routes to reach your customers, and new ways for them to reach you... is what business is all about. it's what the united states postal service has always been about. so as your business changes, we're changing with it. with e-commerce that runs at the speed of now. next day and two-day shipping nationwide. same day shipping across town. returns right from the doorstep,

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who adopt them. subaru. more than a car company. the former president barack obama speaking out tonight about state legislatures around the country moving to restrict voting rights and how it is -- it's a danger to our democracy. a lot to talk about, now. valerie jarrett is here, who was a senior adviser to president barack obama when he was in the white house. the author of "finding my voice." valerie, it's good to see you. you are the perfect person to talk about this interview, tonight. it was a great interview. good evening. thanks for joining. >> thank you, don. good evening to you, too. >> so, the former president, he is pointing out what is going on in state legislatures with changing election laws and the lie in the last election that so many now believe. is there any question that he believes our democracy is in crisis? >> well, i think when anderson asked him, he said, look, we are in trouble here. you have state, after state, after state, almost-all 50

states, with attempts to try to undermine the ability of people to vote. and it's so clear, don, the people they are trying to suppress are people of color, young people. so, they didn't win the election on the up and up. they said it wasn't on the up and up even though, obviously, it was. and now, they are trying to change the law to make it harder for people to vote. the thought that, in georgia, it's against the law to bring food or water to somebody standing in line. come on, now. that's ridiculous. why wouldn't we be expand early voting? why wouldn't we be making it easier for people who can't just take off, on a tuesday, to go vote? why wouldn't we be making it easier for them? that's what a democracy is all about. >> he is saying this is why the conversation on voting rights is so important. and also, why we need to talk about the filibuster. watch this, valerie. >> this is why, i think, conversations about some of the institutional and structural barriers to our democracy working better. like, the elimination of the filibuster.

or the end to partisan gerrymandering is important. all of us, as citizens, have to recognize that the path towards an undemocratic america is not gonna happen in just one bang. it's -- it -- it happens in a series of steps. and when you look at what's happened in places, like hungary, and in poland, that obviously, did not have the same traditions -- democratic traditions that we did. they weren't as -- as deeply rooted. and yet, as recently as ten years ago, were functioning democracy. and now, essentially, have become -- >> democracy doesn't always die in a military coup. democracy dies at the ballot box. >> that's exactly right. >> so, valerie, i reminded my viewers that i had you on a couple months ago. and you were getting to the same point. that's the same point that you have made to me before. which -- which is that there comes a time between choosing democracy or the filibuster.

the -- is that moment now? >> well, when the stakes are as high as they are, i think you have a limited opportunity to act. if any other country were behaving the way we're behaving right now, united states would be critical. we would be saying that's not the way a democracy behaves. and so, look. the voting-rights act is an important act to pass. and if we can't get it passed with the filibuster, we should consider passing it, anyway. the american jobs plan. very important, for our families. the american family plan. all of the legislation that president biden is pushing, right now, is what's going to bring us back from the brink of the disaster where we have been. protecting our democracy. rebuilding our economy. strengthening families. isn't all of that far-more important than the filibuster? >> yeah. listen. now, to the former president talking about the gop. i thought that there were enough guardrails, institutionally. >> right. >> that, even after trump was

elected, that you would have the so-called republican establishment. who would say, okay, you know. it's a problem, if the white house isn't -- doesn't seem to be concerned about russian meddling. or it's a problem, if we have a president who is saying that, you know, neo-nazis marching in charlottesville, there are good people on both sides. you know, that that's a little bit beyond the pail. and the degree, to which, we did not see that republican establishment say, hold on, time-out, that's not acceptable. that's not who we are. but rather, be cowed into accepting it. and then, finally, culminating in january 6th. where what, originally, was, oh,

don't worry, this isn't going anywhere. we're just letting trump and others vent. >> valerie, so, this is who the gop is. what does that mean for president biden's push for bipartisanship? is that a pipe dream? >> look, i think he has to try. he has to find a coalition of the willing. and maybe, he will. but i, also, think -- and he's already done this with the first rescue bill -- he is going to wait but so long. i think it's in the country's best interest to have bipartisanship, in theory. but the way they're behaving for all the reasons, don, you just outlined. they are not abiding by those normal guardrails that have protected our democracy for a very long time. and when you can't count on them to behave responsibly, well then the adult in the room who isn't putting short-term political interests first needs to do the right thing. >> valerie jarrett, always a pleasure. thank you so much for joining us this evening. >> you are welcome. >> thank you. up next. who president barack obama is

blaming for our polarized politics and what he sees as the solutions. but will any of those solutions work with a gop nasthat is not based in reality?

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the former-president barack obama speaking out tonight, warning our democracy is at risk. so joining me now to discuss, cnn political commentator and former obama senior adviser, david axelrod. and matthew dowd former chief strategist for president george w. bush. david -- good evening, to you -- i'm afraid to what you are going to say. if you are going to slam me or whatever. but i understand that you -- you -- you want to talk about, chris and i, the crosstalk that we had. the handoff. >> well, here -- here is the thing, as i was listening to this. and i had to smile, as chris was talking about how weak democrats are. and they don't know how to fight and so on. and, you know, i worked for a president, who we saw tonight. who won two national elections, by more than -- with more than 51% of the vote. the last guy to do that was dwight d. eisenhower. okay? how did he do it? how did this -- this pantywaist

unwilling-to-fight guy win two elections. an african-american man named barack hussein obama. he came to office, as you know, in this horrendous economic crisis. and he led us out of that crisis, despite the unwithering opposition of the republican party. he passed -- seven presidents tried to pass health reform. he did it. he did it. so, you know, don't -- don't tell me he doesn't know how to fight. >> david -- >> he certainly was successful. >> i got to tell you. i don't know if chris -- well, maybe, it was -- i'll let chris speak for himself. the way i heard it is that he wasn't talking about the former president. he was talking about the democrats, now. but maybe, there -- he -- i think he did say i didn't hear the former-president barack obama offer any solutions. i don't know about that part. >> no, no, no, his swimintimati

was that he is too polite. and look, i love chris and i'd have this conversation with him. but, you know, that's simply not the case. the other reality check is, yes. yes. it would be great, you know, i hear, all the time, from my progressive friends, forget about bipartisanship. just pass the damn bills. >> uh-huh. >> that's fine. but as matthew can tell you, you know, even if you can navigate around a filibuster. you need 50 votes. if you don't have the 50 votes, you can't pass anything. joe biden passed his american rescue act, because joe manchin and all the other democrats supported it. that's the reality that he lives in, every day. and until he can cobble together 50, much less 60, you know, this is -- these are all academic discussions. and if someone else -- if someone has a great idea about how to get those 50 votes, that

would be a constructive discussion. >> uh-huh. >> but to say, hey, you don't fight hard enough, to me, is kind of empty words. >> all right. i get -- i think that -- i think that what -- well, at least for myself. again, and i think chris -- chris was talking about the same thing is that we are talking about now. not -- not when obama was president. this is a whole-different world, now. this is -- you know, this is the post-trump era. things are different, now. matthew, i will let you weigh in. what do you think of what david said and what we were just talking about? >> well, having been -- having worked for, both, democrats for many years, and then republicans. i mean, i think there are democratic fighters. i think the problem, today, is that we're -- they're -- we're dealing with a republican party, that no one's really, fundamentally faced in the way that we faced before. because they don't really care about governing. they don't care about any fundamental principles of ideology. all it is, is do whatever i can to create grievance and fear among -- among their voters. i mean, i -- i'll tell you one thing about democrats.

is -- and it's a virtue but sometimes, it's a virtue that becomes a weakness. is democrats are -- can feel shame, right? democrats feel shame. and the -- they're backed down a lot by that sort of pushback, oftentimes, when they shouldn't be. republicans feel no shame, today. which isn't good, because they're willing to do anything, put up with anything, tolerate any, corrupt, incompetent leaders. if it gets -- gets them what they want. and so, i agree with david, that you need 50 votes to pass anything. as you know, have advocated we need to get rid of the filibuster. i mean, if you are -- if you are a person that wants voting rights. if you are a person that wants increased-minimum wage. if you are a person that wants climate-change reform. if you are a person that wants gun reform. you can't have any of that with the filibuster as it exists today. so in order to get those things, you got to get rid of the filibuster. in the end, the only way to overcome this problem, fundamentally, is call out the truth, which i think is important. call out the truth and where it is. put pressure on joe manchin and senator sinema.

but it's the 2022 elections. and it's the 2024 elections. so it has to be, i think that the only way we're going to get through this, as a country, is the republican party has to suffer devastating losses in a number of elections, in a row, in order for us to get through this. that's the only -- only, real way we'll get through this, is republicans have to lose, badly, in a series of elections. >> yeah. this is what i like is having this conversation because i know -- you just know what's going to happen on social media. oh, how dare don lemon? how dare david? how dare matthew? it's like we're just having a conversation. and this is -- that's the problem with the country, now. people don't know how to. civil -- i don't know about civility. people just don't know how to discuss things, anymore. without just -- without being curious, instead of judging people and saying, david slammed don for -- none of that happened. we are having a conversation. okay, so, david, let me ask you this because you interviewed congresswoman liz cheney for your podcast the axe files this weekend.

i want to play some of it, and then i want to get your reaction. here it is. >> sure. >> what -- what donald trump did is the most dangerous thing. and the most egregious violation of an oath of office of any president, in our history. and so, the idea that a few weeks after he did that, the leader of the republicans in the house would be at mar-a-lago. essentially, you know, pleading with him to -- to, somehow, you know, come back into the -- the fold. well, whatever it was he was doing, to me, was -- was inexcusable. >> so, here is the thing. and you know i hate to but it's -- you got to talk about it because you talked about it with her. that he was back out, this weekend, spreading the lies. this big lie at a rally in north carolina. cheney is standing up for her party. you know, for what her party won't do. but can she really get through, when he has a megaphone straight to the base? >> look, first of all, i think she'd say she was standing up for democracy. which trumps -- look. i don't agree with liz cheney on

hardly anything. but i do share, with her, a -- a -- a love and a reverence for this democracy, which as president obama pointed out tonight, is not a gift. it's a project. and it requires us to be vigilant. and, you know, i respect her for standing up. i think, the other republicans would look at her as a negative example, only in the sense that, you know, she paid a price for standing up. she was repudiated by -- by the members of her own caucus. she points to her re-elect, next year, to matthew's point about 2022, 2024, she points to her re-election as a referendum on the direction of the party. and the direction of the country. and -- and she -- she's anticipating she will get a full-furied attack from the trump forces for trying to punish her for standing up against him and standing up for democracy. and she posits her race and her

victory, you know, as a -- as striking a blow against them. >> yeah. >> but right now, i think there are a lot of republicans who are just running in fear. she said some of them are running in fear of their own security. but they are, also, just running in fear of the political weight of the trump voter. and they don't want to -- and they don't want to take 'em on, even when it means turning the other way on things like what we saw on january 6th. >> yeah. matthew, i owe you one. can you give me ten seconds? don't get me in trouble, please. i will let you respond. >> i will give you ten seconds. my only issue with liz cheney is that liz cheney is in a party she no longer fits in and she hasn't figured that out, and she is still in delusion about. that party no longer fits who she is. the second thing is if she really believes in our democracy, she needs to leave the party that is trying to destroy the democracy. that's fundamentally what she needs to do. she needs to leave the party that is doing exactly what she is criticizing donald trump for. >> matthew, david. david, don't be mad at me.

i still love ya. >> i'm not mad at you. >> i know. i really enjoyed the conversation. i will see you guys soon. thanks so much. progressive democrats criticizing joe manchin for refusing to support a sweeping-voting rights bill. one lawmaker saying manchin's op-ed might as well be titled while vote to -- wait a minute -- why vote to preserve jim crow? congressman mondaire jones -- why i'll -- sorry, i am a little bit out of it. let me try that, again. why i'll vote to preserve jim crow. there we go. congressman mondaire jones joins me, next. the harry's razor is not the same. our razors have five german engineered blades designed to stay sharp, so your eighth shave is as smooth as your first. and we never upcharge you for high quality.

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i want to discuss this with, now, congressman mondaire jones, a democrat from new york. congressman jones, thanks for joining. so glad that you're here. >> thanks for having me on the show, don. >> thank you. you, as well. so, let's talk about -- i want to read something from joe manchin's op-ed. okay? and i'll quote here. he says, i believe that partisan voting legislation will destroy the already-weakening binds of our democracy. and for that reason, i will vote against the for the people act. fr furthermore, i will not vote to weaken or eliminate the filibuster. you said that his piece may as well be titled "why i'll vote to preserve jim crow." explain that, to me, please, representative. >> well, don, you -- you said this, earlier today. our democracy's in crisis. and it faces its greatest threat or test, since jim crow. we see it, now, in the racist voter-suppression laws that have been enacted in places like georgia and florida. and soon enough, in texas.

and with unified-democratic control of the federal government, we can actually act to save our democracy. from the autocratic imposes of the republican party. but we have got a democrat in -- from west virginia, in the senate, who is refusing to do just that. and so, he has to own the fact that he is the person standing in the way of saving american democracy during this critical summer. when we can, actually, pass the for the people act. there is no substitute for the for the people act, by the way. it is the only thing that will save our democracy. and we have to move quickly, in order to do that. >> but, representative jones, despite his views here. honestly, are you better off having manchin or kyrsten sinema in her seat? without them, the -- the democrats wouldn't -- wouldn't share committees in the senate. schumer wouldn't be the majority leader. wouldn't you have a -- even bigger problems? >> well, look. i -- i reject the scenario where we have to have our democracy

undermined, simply to pass the american rescue plan, for example. i believe that we can do both, and what i'm calling for is for the president of the united states to use the bully pulpit. the stature of his office and all of the resources that he has at his disposal. as the most powerful person in the world. to strike a deal with a member of his own party. to do that, which is required to save our democracy. from the people, who are having it under assault right now. and i don't think that's asking too much. in fact, it is required in order for us to have all of the things that we take for granted in this country. you know, all of the progressive, obviously, legislation that people, like myself, push for. but more baseline, the right to vote in this country. we know that the republican party of today cannot win on the merits of its policy ideas. so instead, it seeks to disenfranchise large numbers of the american electorate. and that is untenable. we are witnessing, in real-time, the republican party set itself

up so that, in january of 2025, if a democratic president is fortunate enough to have won the presidency. the year -- the fall prior -- to not even certify that presidential election. like what my colleagues tried to do, in january of this year. just hours after nearly dying alongside me at the capitol that day. >> hmm. let me ask you something. before i ask you the next question. do you consider joe manchin a centrist? >> you know, i -- i really don't know whether to call him a conservative-democrat. a centrist. or more specifically, someone who is opposed to having -- >> the reason i ask -- the reason i ask is i'm asking that question is because i was going to say. do you -- is there -- is there room for a centrist in the party? that's the question people are asking. you have got room for the progressives. is there room for a centrist, if you consider him a centrist? and if you consider -- i think, voting rights is something that should be bipartisan but go on, i'm sorry. >> yeah.

it -- it's why i kind of reject the question because 55% of republicans support the for the people act. and so, this is not something that should be partisan. the fundamental right to vote in this country. of course, we have centrists in the party. and those centrists, by the way, in the house and in the senate, like amy klobuchar, are calling for the passage and the for the people act. so, there is no question that the democratic party has a large enough tent to . but as it concerns the fundamental right to vote in this country, that should not follow along partisan lines. unfortunately we see it doing precisely that with respect to the republican party, and that voter suppression all across the country along party lines. >> congressman, always a pleasure. thank you. again, happy pride to you. thanks so much. >> thank you. take care. former president barack obama giving his take on cancel culture in a cnn interview tonight, and he is warning about the dangers of going overboard.

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take this. former president barack obama weighs in on what he calls the dangers of cancel culture and how it impacts his daughters, who are now young women in college, as well as their peers. >> a lot of the dangers of cancel culture and, you know, we're just going to be condemning people all the time, at least among my daughters, they'll acknowledge that sometimes among their peer group or on college campuses, you'll see folks going overboard. but they have a pretty good sense of -- of, look, we don't want -- we don't expect everybody to be perfect. we don't expect everybody to be politically correct all the time, but we are going to call out institutions or individuals

if they are being cruel, if they are, you know, discriminating against people. we do want to raise awareness. >> as i have said many times on this program, there is a legitimate debate, a very legitimate debate about whether it has gone too far, meaning cancel culture. a lot of republicans now yell cancel culture anytime someone doesn't agree with their positions. the difference is between being held accountable for your actions and just canceling people who don't agree with you as conservatives do a lot. liz cheney, anyone? we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google, turn up the heat. ♪ ♪ ♪

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