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filibuster to stop the for the people act from even being debated. think about this. in the aftermath of an insurrection with our democracy on the line, and many of these same republican senators going along with the notion that somehow there were irregularities and problems with legitimacy in our most recent election, they are suddenly afraid to even talk about these issues and figure out solutions on the floor of the senate. they don't even want to talk about voting. and that is not acceptable. >> the former president warned in his words that we can't take democracy for granted and, quote, he speaks to more than just a senate vote. this week sees arizona bracing for potential violence as the group of so-called ballot auditors wraps up their so-called work. and in georgia, a version of that kind of sham audit is right

now in front of a judge. cnn's sara murray is in atlanta tonight. so what is the latest in the fight over fulton county's absentee ballots? >> reporter: a judge heard hours of arguments today from fulton county government entities looking to dismiss at least some of this lawsuit. this is brought by a group of folks who believe there might have been some election fraud. they want to examine nearly 150,000 absentee ballots ultimately. after these hours of discussion today the judge didn't decide whether or not to dismiss some or all of this case. he is still ruminating on the arguments. so this is kind of hanging in limbo at least for now, anderson. >> how do the plaintiffs want to examine the ballots and what are they looking for? >> reporter: well, they have given an inkling in court. they want to use high powered microscopes to look at these absentee ballots. they say they want to look at things like the creases and the paper stock and the way the bubbles have been filled in to determine if they were filled in by hand or by a machine.

and again, these are folks who believe there are somehow counterfeit ballots in the mix of these absentee ballots. we should note that the ballots here in atlanta have been counted and recounted and audited by election officials who have found no evidence of widespread fraud. >> this is exactly what they are allegedly doing in arizona in the sham audit. if this does proceed, it will be similar to what is happening in maricopa county. >> reporter: well, i will say the one thing about this potential audit of the fulton county ballots is the judge is trying to build in guardrails if it does go forward. he has made clear previously if they move forward with this ballot examination, he wants the folks who want to examine the ballots to submit their protocols to the court ahead of time. he is not just going to hand the ballots over. they will remain in the care and in the security of fulton county. it is also possible he'll require them to submit their findings to the court before they go out and talk about them publicly. so he is trying to put some

guardrails in place but obviously it is going to be quite a spectacle no matter what. >> sara murray, appreciate it. now, the effort election doubters in georgia, pennsylvania, and elsewhere have modeled their would be so-called audits after. in our last hour we heard from the arizona secretary of state katie hobbs about her concerns as the audit there wraps up. joining us now is maricopa county recorder and republican steven richer. appreciate you being with us. what is your understanding of what is going to happen when the so-called -- these, quote-unquote, results come out from the so-called audit in arizona and what exactly is the process for returning the ballots? >> yeah, well, thank you very much for having me on. i really appreciate it. part of the problem is that we haven't gotten clarity about this process. we don't know exactly what to expect. but we do understand there will be some sort of report and that might be issued in late july but it might take longer than that. but, look, we think the arizona senate boarded this train

without knowledge of where it was going and i don't think it is going to a good place. >> the fact -- i mean, we talked to katy hobbs in the last hour. she is a democrat. you are a republican. this is unbelievable to me or i shouldn't say unbelievable but disturbing to me that there are politicians from around the country coming to maricopa county taking tours of this audit, so-called, run by this private company that our reporters have gone to florida and found they don't have offices and have no actual experience in doing an audit like this. and this is somehow the model that other states or other various actors and states are wanting to replicate. as somebody who cares about voting fraud and a proper vote as you do in your career, what is it like seeing people coming from around the country wanting to repeat this?

>> yeah, this is insane just from a competence standpoint. we've had 13 other states visit and i would say to them, this is not the audit you want. this is far from the gold standard of audits. you're looking for the ernst and young of accounting. or the latham and watkins of law firms. you're not looking for a newbie company who has never done this before who as cnn very capably showed doesn't even have office space and is sending the data off to a mysterious house in montana. that is not the gold standard. you want to do better just from a competency standpoint. and so that you can talk to more than just the stop the steal crowd. let's be honest. this arizona audit isn't going to convince anyone outside of the crowd that already believes the election was stolen. >> yeah. and just listening to you, you know, point out that they are sending ballots to some guy in

montana, we think to his house, where i don't know what he is doing with it in the comfort of his own home. and it's funny, you know, on one hand because it is so ludicrous as you say and yet there is really nothing funny about it because a lot of, you know, good and decent people are taking this thing seriously because they have been lied to and, you know, misled. >> you're absolutely right. and the people who are working there, most of them are good, decent people who just want to be helping out the state. but look. it goes back to why on earth would you choose the cyber ninjas? i don't have an explanation for that unless you were feeling just such immense pressure from the stop the steal crowd that you caved, or that you knew the cyber ninjas would deliver the results that you wanted, or you didn't do any due diligence on the cyber ninjas. and none of those are good looks. >> as far as i can tell there is one so-called cyber ninja because all the voice mail for everybody in the cyber ninjas

according to kyung lah ultimately goes to this one guy's voicemail who is apparently in maricopa county. i mentioned you are a republican. does the person who is leading the charge in this, the republican leader of the state senate there named karen fan, does she communicate with you? because she is fully backing this thing. >> the last i communicated with senate president fan was when the audit accused me and my staff of breaking the law and of unlawfully spoiling evidence. and i texted her and i said, karen, do you really want to accuse me of breaking the law? that seems a little bit strange. i'm your fellow partisan ally. and she said she didn't have control over the account and she had no idea what was going on with that. and i just thought that was dumbfounding to me. and that is what precipitated our involvement because we had to defend our good name and the name of the hard-working people of maricopa county.

but if she doesn't know what is going on with the audit account, doesn't know what is going on with the twitter account, what does she know is going on with the rest of the process, and who has control over this? >> also, it is just pathetic that, you know, you seem like a decent guy. the people who work for you are not looking for fame and fortune. they are doing a job that is incredibly essential to our democracy. and to suddenly be subjected to this vitriol from the qanon folks and the stop the steal folks, so-called, and all of these other people, it is just depressing and it seems like, what is to stop this from just being the future now that every election, partisans, you know, if republicans win, you know, folks who are out on the far fringes of the left, what is to stop them from doing this? >> you don't even have to have a close election. i mean, there is no good reason for doing this.

so if you lost by 15%, why wouldn't you throw that into doubt, too? because some of the allegations that are being made about 200,000 ballots being brought in from china, that would swing not just a close race but a race that had a wide margin of victory. so, no. it is very frustrating. you're right. we are glorified bean counters but we are bean counters who care about this democratic process and we just want to go about doing that. and i'm really worried about our ability to recruit sufficient poll workers for the 2022 election. because, yes, we are still going to have a 2022 election even though we are still talking about the 2020 election. >> i'm all for glorifying bean counters because bean counters are essential. it is not an easy job to do. and, you know, your team deserves kudos for -- by the way, putting together and running the most successful election of -- just in terms of turnout, in terms of involvement, i mean, that is

the -- that's one of the crimes of this. it is not that the election was stolen. it's that the reality of the election was stolen. the reality being this was an election in which more americans cast ballots. and it was, there was no widespread voter fraud and this was a successful election and a model. i mean, for both republicans and democrats. republicans did great across the country in this election. >> so anderson, here is the real irony and the coup de gras in our situation. i can't even take credit for this. my team can but i can't because i was simply a candidate on the ballot. and on that same ballot i unseated the former democrat chief elections official of maricopa county. yes, i beat the democrat on the ballots that were supposedly rigged. >> stephen richer, i really appreciate what you do and your time tonight. thank you. >> thank you very much. i really appreciate it. now, tomorrow's senate vote to begin debate on what is called the for the people act, again, just to start talking, 60

votes, meaning 10 republican votes that all but certainly will not be there. which raises the question what is next for voting rights and for those who say that some form of legislation is needed for this health of this democracy. joining us now, a lead sponsor of the bill, senator jeff merkley, democrat of oregon. appreciate you being with us. there is very little mystery on how the vote to advance debate on this act is going to go tomorrow. even if democrats are able to get senator manchin on board and vote in unison, you still won't break a filibuster. what do you and other democrats hope to accomplish with the vote? >> we hope tomorrow we'll see that the democrats and independents are united. 50 senators saying this should be on the floor being debated and we are hopeful that maybe a couple republicans will possibly part with mitch mcconnell and say they, too, want to defend the constitution. they, too, don't think billionaires should buy elections. that we should have a debate on this. they, too, want to defend the right to vote and end gerrymandering. we are not expecting that but just to have this vote tomorrow

is to start kind of this accelerated, intensive process of saying, if we're going to save the vision of our constitution, we really have to get these national election standards in place before the end of the summer so that elections next year can be based with those election standards. >> so where do things stand as far as you understand with senator manchin right now? are you confident he may end up voting with democrats? >> he's been engaged for the last two weeks laying out areas of the bill that he has concerns about, laying out his vision of what could look like a bill that could honor these basic four goals of the integrity of our elections that might be able to bring republicans on. we're working. we are working through the weekend with his team and the senate leadership and the rules committee and my team on seeing what that could look like. i think the next thing that happens is we come to an understanding of what this bill looks like that would have the

50 votes and then we attempt to find another chance to see if there is any republicans who want to join us in this. when there are not, then that triggers the next phase, which is to say, how are we going to get this bill to the floor? and how are we going to get to a final vote? because we have to defend the integrity of our constitution. >> and, i mean, it seems like the only way you do that is if the -- there is action on the filibuster, which seems again to go back to senator manchin, no? >> the senate has had this basic social contract which is the majority doesn't run over the minority. it gives a full chance to participate in debate, to offer amendments, to delay things in order to seek a compromise. but in the end, the majority gets to a vote. it is that second half of the social contract that has been completely broken by mitch mcconnell and so i think the conversation among the 50 senators, if we don't have any republican partners, is how are we going to defend that vision of fair chance for republicans

to participate but we get to a final vote? there are various ways that have been proposed to do that. reverse the 1975 rule change which created the no-show obstruction that we now call a filibuster, but it doesn't require actually speaking any more. there is the senator harkin version of lowering the number every week or so until you reach a simple majority to close debate. there is a variety of ways we can approach it but 50 senators are going to have to decide on which version of strengthening or restoring the filibuster, the purpose of it, we're going to pursue. >> senator, thank you. >> thank you. still to come, there is new information on the doj leak probe. what were the former president's investigators looking for and why was information from two democrats on the house intelligence committee targeted? we are finally starting to get some answers. and later, a live report from west virginia with democrats sounding off on senator joe manchin and his tactics when "360" continues. every day unilever does good

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new information now emerging about the justice department leak probe conducted by the previous administration that swept up information from democratic lawmakers and the then white house counsel and that also targeted reporters at "the new york times," "the washington post," and cnn. sources tell cnn the subpoena used to obtain information from the democrats was the result of an investigation that included a focus on a senior aide on the house intelligence committee. a source says the white house counsel's records were swept up as part of a separate investigation, which just adds another layer of mystery. we're joined by someone who felt the fury of the previous administration but also has experience in these leak probes involving congress, former deputy director and cnn senior law enforcement analyst andrew mccabe. thanks for being here. the idea this investigation was not first and foremost about adam schiff and eric swalwell themselves, does it make it any less egregious in your mind that their personal communications data were secretly seized by the government? what questions still need to get answered?

>> well, anderson, there are a lot of good questions. i think the -- what we're learning now that the investigation apparently began targeting a staffer or member of the committee and not the members themselves seems reasonable. but the reasonableness kind of ends there. typically what would happen is you would begin with the target and you would then identify all of that person's contacts -- their e-mail contacts, their telephone contacts, and then you'd have to figure out who those contacts were. one way to do that is to drop a subpoena like we've heard about that got served on apple in this case to uncover the subscriber records of all those contacts. in this case knowing that you were grabbing the subscriber records of all of the contacts of a senior staffer on the house intelligence committee, you had every reason in the world to know you would scoop up in that subpoena the records of members of congress and their staffers and that is not the kind of step that would typically be taken by

an agent in the field or a line ausa in some u.s. attorney's office. that is something that would have very high level involvement and approval from the highest levels of both the fbi and doj. >> if the case was focused on a staffer at least initially is it odd that apple was under a prolonged gag order and that congressmen schiff and swalwell only found out just recently their records had been subpoenaed? >> the purpose of a gag order in a case like this, and i can tell you from my own experience supervising, overseeing many of them in the fbi, is to ensure the target of the investigation isn't notified about the investigative activity that is taking place. and that is pretty legitimate. the question here is how long did those gag orders stay maintained and renewed even after the investigation moved on and they apparently were no longer interested in this staffer? that raises serious questions of about, were they using the gag

orders to hide the existence of these subpoenas, knowing that they would kick up this sort of very legitimate controversy? and that is something we just don't know yet. >> there is also the question though the former white house counsel don mcgahn, why his data was seized by the trump justice department. do you have a better sense tonight of what sort of case could have swept up the personal information of a high ranking republican white house official? >> yeah, not really. because we don't have much of an indication yet of who the target was of that case in which don mcgahn and apparently his wife's records were swept up. but that would be something that the justice department, look, at this point they should be revealing these facts to the public to try to throw some transparency on what is an embarrassing and potentially very damaging set of facts for them to deal with. it is time we heard from the justice department as to what was going on here and i think waiting a year for the ig to do his work, a year or more, is not satisfactory. >> i mean, do you think that, is it possible that, you know,

having the ig investigate is also a way to give the department of justice a pass for all the time it takes for the ig to investigate? they can say, look. there is an active investigation under way? >> it definitely gives the department, and i should say the fbi, a kind of a very convenient excuse not to participate in any of these efforts at transparency to say there is an ongoing investigation. therefore we can't say anything about it. that is really a bit frustrating. if these underlying investigations of the house staffer and whoever they were investigating about don mcgahn, if those cases are closed, they should feel free to come out and talk about them and answer some of those questions right now. >> you talked about this needing, you know, high level approval given now what we know. former attorney barr, former attorney general, i should say, bill barr, he said he didn't recall being briefed on these

things. if that was indeed the case, to initially focus on a congressional staffer, not lawmakers, would it be possible barr wasn't aware? would it go that high? >> absolutely it would go that high. i can tell you this again based on my own experience handling leak cases, understanding very sensitive leak cases like ones that might stray into the congressional area, these are things that are discussed at the attorney general and the fbi director level. they are definitely briefed repeatedly to the deputy director of the fbi who at this time would have been david boudich and deputy attorney general rod rosenstein. so the idea that none of these people remember hearing anything about these cases is really very, very suspicious to me. it is unlikely that legal process in cases of this level of sensitivity would have had some very high level discussions and approval. and of course if that took place the attorney general doesn't get information about a case by himself. it comes up in updates and documents that go through his staff.

it takes place in meetings in which staff are present. i think all of those folks on the very large attorney general and director staff, deputy director staff, should be brought in and asked, were you ever present when these cases were discussed? if so, what did you hear? those people should have access to their notes and notebooks that they no doubt took and memorialized some of the details of the meetings in. >> yeah. there is a trail. >> it is only through that process that we'll get real answers. >> andrew mccabe, appreciate it. thanks. >> thanks, anderson. next, is it time for college athletes to get paid to pay for the universities which reap billions from their performances on the field? the supreme court laid the groundwork today for exactly that. we will have details when we come back. tonight, i'll be eating a pork banh mi with extra jalapeños. [doorbell rings] thanks, baby. yeah, we 'bout to get spicy for this virtual date. spicy like them pajama pants? well, the top half of me looks good. no wonder we still single. hello lenny28.

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in a carefully watched case the supreme court said today the nation's student athletes could receive education related payments separate and apart from the tuition and fees that are covered for most already. it was a unanimous ruling and of course could change the entire landscape of college athletics. for decades major colleges have relied principally on revenues from football and basketball without paying the athletes who are the star attractions. in delivering the opinion of the court, justice brett kavanaugh said the ncaa, the umbrella group for college athletics, was in essence, quote, acting above the law by not paying its workers what he called a fair market rate. joining me now is christine brennan, sports columnist for

"usa today" and a cnn sports analyst and cnn chief legal analyst jeffrey toobin. the ncaa makes billions of dollars a year. what will be the immediate impact of this ruling for college athletes? and how much of those billions in revenue are they actually likely to see? >> well, we would maybe want to check back in about 20 or 30 years and see where this goes. i do believe this is a signal for the future in terms of athletes having the opportunity to make some money on their name, image, and likeness. i don't know that we'll ever get to the point of paying athletes. of course if you pay the football players you need to play the field hockey players. there is something called title ix, which celebrates its 49th anniversary on wednesday, the law that opened the floodgates for women and girls to play sports. so you have to be very aware we're not just paying the men, but also the women. i do think obviously the legal issue is there but right now this is about laptops and internships. this is a very narrow look at a

huge issue in college sports, the issue in college sports. and one of the biggest issues in sports in general in our country i think it shows us where we are headed. when we get there 20 to 30 years from now we will look at this as one of those key stepping stones to the point where student athletes are paid in some way for as i said the name, image, and likeness is the most likely example. >> boy, christine, i don't see this as 20 or 30 years. i see this as a lot sooner. the main opinion, the opinion for the court was written by neil gorsuch, a concurring opinion written by brett kavanaugh. and brett kavanaugh all but said, you can't do this anymore. you can't have a system where nick saban, the coach of the university of alabama football team, gets $9 million a year from the university and the football players who put their health on the line are not even allowed to get minimum wage of $7.25 an hour.

i think this is -- justice kavanaugh was all but inviting more lawsuits saying this system has to be torn up from the ground. and i don't think it is going to be 20 or 30 years. >> so jeff, how do you see that working? this was unanimous, by the way. all nine justices agreeing. is it, as christine was saying, just images and, you know, likenesses and t-shirts? how would it work? there's a lot of different -- there are crew teams. field hockey teams, all sorts of teams that don't necessarily make the income that a baseball or basketball team makes. >> that is one of the ncaa's big arguments is that the revenue from football and basketball subsidizes wrestling and cross country and crew and all of the sports that don't bring in any revenue. there are lots of proposals in the works. and i am not entirely sure title ix would require every athlete

to get the same exact amount of money. i don't have a fully thought-out plan for how these athletes are going to be compensated. but i'm telling you, they are going to be compensated. there are laws in the states, california, that -- it is just going to change. >> no doubt about that, jeff. and what i was saying is when we get to a settled place in 20 to 30 years, which i think is going to take a while to get to that place if we are paying athletes completely. we already have pro sports, of course. do we want another level of minor league pro sports and what does the college situation look like and what do people want in their college sports? those are the issues that are going to be going on over the next, as i said, i think, 20 to 30 years where we will end up. but absolutely in terms of the name, image, and likeness, that is not an incidental conversation as i know jeff and anderson, you know. think about gymnastics. think about the instagram accounts of all these gymnasts.

and they go viral with their routines. look at the women's softball. this is not just -- usually this conversation is about men's basketball and football. but in this case, you could have, i was just covering the olympics swimming trials in omaha. katie ledecky had to turn pro two years into her college career at stanford. if she is allowed to make money on her name, image, and likeness, the states and the governors and obviously the supreme court and the courts are leading the way on this. but she could have stayed a swimmer at stanford and also started to make money moving towards the olympic games in terms of endorsements. and i think this is the landscape that we're going to see. paying athletes completely? i mean, literally just paying everyone? i don't know that we'll get there. if we do get there, if you like scandal, get ready. because the amount of money floating around those athletes and boosters, well, there would be a lot of stories to write.

>> but the scandals are already happening. the money is changing hands. it's just under the table now. and the athletes by and large aren't getting it. television networks are getting it. commissioners are getting it. administrators are getting it. but it is not the athletes who are getting it. and that is the way things have to move. this opinion where, a supreme court that disagrees on a lot of things, all nine justices agreeing here, the system stinks and it has to change. >> jeff toobin, christine brennan, fascinating. thanks. coming up next, the senator who says he hates his role in washington but has never been so pivotal, joe manchin. ahead of tomorrow's senate action on voting rights seen by some of the folks back home.

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it would be tempting to call senator joe manchin washington's man of the hour but given his chosen role and the number of democratic ambitions he could enable or snuff out, the description doesn't seem quite adequate. in any case, having already heard plenty from democrats inside the beltway we thought it might be nice for a change to hear what some of his democratic constituents back home have to say about the senator. gary tuchman has more. >> reporter: three west virginia democrats being asked about their democratic u.s. senator. on a 1 to 10 scale, at this time how do you think senator manchin is doing for this state, the country, the democratic party? >> i would give him a 2. >> i would also give him a 2. >> also a 2. >> reporter: those 2s are particularly notable because

these aren't just any democrats but county democratic leaders. shane is the chair of the county west virginia democratic party. >> he did vote for the american rescue plan so i am willing to bump it up from 1 to 2 for that. >> reporter: rachel bern is the first vice chair of the county democratic party. >> i think he is in the way that he has been going about legislation right now, he is not good for the progress of our country. >> reporter: ariana is the president of the college democrats of west virginia and says she used to be a page for senator manchin. >> i think that young people like myself want to see congress take some action. while the democrats have control. and he is very much in the way. >> i'd like to speak to the resolution. >> reporter: all of them offended that their fellow democrat won't back the end of the filibuster, which they and many others believe is unfairly

stunting democratic priorities in the senate. how do you feel about this? >> very disappointed. bordering on angry. >> reporter: commonly called mon county for short, it is the only west virginia county joe biden almost won on election day. some describe the county seat and college town of morgantown as a liberal bubble of sorts. but there is still a feeling among some everyday democrats here that joe manchin needs to continue to play it cautious in order not to lose the state's only democrat in a congressional seat. >> given the alternatives i think he is doing as good a job as he can. >> i understand what he is trying to do in trying to stay elected in west virginia. considering how red the state is it is shocking that he has been able to stay in the senate all these years. >> reporter: last month senator manchin, who often talks about bipartisanship, was asked this before the vote on the capitol insurrection commission. >> would you be willing to break the filibuster in order to get this passed? >> i am not ready to destroy our government. no. i think it will come together. >> reporter: senate republicans ended up blocking the bill and

that lack of bipartisanship is exactly what is wrong with senator manchin's position according to these democratic leaders. >> this pursuit that he has for this mythology of congressional bipartisanship i think is ultimately going to be very damaging to this country if it continues. >> reporter: anderson, nobody thinks that joe manchin's general philosophies will be changing. he has been doing this a long time. but the democratic leaders we spoke with today say on individual issues they think he can be flexible provided that he still gets pressure from democratic colleagues. >> gary tuchman, thanks very much. i want to get perspective now from our cnn chief political analyst gloria borger. you've covered senator manchin and interviewed him. do you think he is worried about hearing from the few democrats that exist in the state of west virginia? if anything, isn't it helpful for joe manchin? that state voted overwhelmingly for the former president. he needs to appeal to republicans in his state to stay in power. >> he does.

it's a ruby red state. first of all, i have my question about whether joe manchin is even going to run for re-election again. he is up in 2024. at that time he'll be, i believe, 77 years old so maybe he is doing this because he actually believes that the filibuster, keeping the filibuster compels moderation. it doesn't make democrats feel any happier. and one thing i would point out is that republicans aren't giving joe manchin any love either. he wanted the january 6th commission. they said no. he said to them, you know what? on voting rights, what if i said, let's have voter i.d. i'll give you that. stacey abrams said, yeah, that is a good idea. then republicans said the next day no to both of them. he has given a lot of love to republicans honestly but i don't know what he is getting in return from them. >> gloria, 77. he's just getting started. this day and age? you have to be at least 77 to run.

>> and he lives on a house boat. >> i know, which was the most fascinating thing, an interesting detail in the report in "the new yorker." >> exactly. >> what does manchin get by holding out on the voting rights bill and other items? obviously there is his political viability in a conservative state which you can't ignore. >> sure. sure. and there are lots of things in the bill. he thinks it is way too broad. look, the president spoke with him today and the white house put out this perfunctory note saying, you know, we had a good discussion about how important voting rights are to joe biden and i think manchin is from talking to people who work with him, sort of trying to find a way to get to yes, and to get some republicans onboard. i think that is something that is not going to happen right now. but he says he is going to keep trying until, and i think this still has to play out, he has a

relationship with the president, a very long relationship, and he's always said in the past it is very hard for him to turn joe biden down on some things so let's see where this ends up. it is not going to be tomorrow. it's not going to be tomorrow. but i think there is a lot of string on this yet to go. >> all right. gloria borger, we'll see. thanks. just ahead, a bad juneteenth for the senator who once tried to block it as a federal holiday. why wisconsin voters booed republican ron johnson saturday, when we continue. your mission: stand up to moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. and take. it. on... with rinvoq. rinvoq a once-daily pill can dramatically improve symptoms... rinvoq helps tame pain, stiffness, swelling.

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while trying to celebrate the newly chrisened federal holiday of juneteenth in wisconsin, on saturday, republican senator ron johnson got an earful from voters. >> this is not how you heal this nation. you come down here and you try and interact with people. you -- you be nice to people. this isn't very nice, is it? >> now, we can't say, for certain, why people booed him. it could have been for previously blocking juneteenth from becoming a holiday. or for questioning the safety of covid vaccines. or for downplaying and trying to rewrite what happened during the capitol riot. questioning, whether people were rioting. they were. and if it was actually an armed insurrection, and it was. what we do know is what one

attendee told the milwaukee journal sentinel. quote, ron johnson's politics are not for us. i am joined by mark becker, former republican county chairman in wisconsin. so, mark, you ehave known senatr johnson for many years through your involvement in wisconsin politics. does it make any sense to you why he thought it was a good idea to head to milwaukee for their juneteenth celebration? he last year blocked legislation that would have made the day a federal holiday. were -- were you surprised the reception? >> no, i wasn't surprised at the reception at all. but i -- i was surprised at the decision to go. but i mean, it's really just another example of ron johnson doing his very best to ron johnson impression. he has such a laundry list of gaffes and flubs and lies. and it's embarrassment after embarrassment. he really is the most embarrassing thing to come out of wisconsin politically, since joe mccarthy. it is truthfully unacceptable. >> you have described senator johnson has post truth.

and i know shortly after the election, you claimed the senator called you. told you he knew joe biden had won, fair and square, but he couldn't say that publicly, for political reasons. he later, more or less, denied telling you that. is that what you mean by post truth? >> well, that. and i mean, you can look at the fact that he lies to the american people. insinuating that thousands of people have died from the covid vaccine. and -- and you should take hydroxychloroquine to -- to, you know, for preventative measures. and the fact that trump won. but the fact is ron johnson, to my knowledge, he didn't say that the story was untrue. he just said that -- that i was a weasel or something like that. so, he can't say it's not true because it is. and the fact is, you know, i did have a long conversation with him and he did admit that he knew it. but the fact is he is more worried about, you know, how he looks to his base here, in wisconsin. than -- than how, you know, than telling the truth to the people that elected him. >> and that's really -- you say

that's really what it's about, for him. that he is just -- he wants to stay in power. he is worried about -- i mean, if -- if that's true, does him going and getting booed at a juneteenth event, actually, help him with his constituents? >> i think it's red meat, to them. you know? and he is going to have to do a lot of mending of fences because, in 2010, he told everybody that, you know, i believe in term limits. i'm not going to run for than two times. and he said, again, in 2016, this is my last time running. i'm not running again. and so, now, as he prepares for another run, again, ron johnson being all ron johnson, he is going to lie to the people of wisconsin, again. and seek another term because what he is seeing is he is seeing, you know, he is seeing the loss of the power that he has. and he, also, sees the fact that, you know, he felt close to the power when donald trump was -- was in office. so, he -- he just, you know, i

don't know. it's -- this is just red meat, really, to his base. >> i mean, if he said that to you about, you know, he knew joe biden was -- was -- was a legitimate president, was elected. i mean, it makes the lies he is telling all the worse. i mean, if he was a true believer, who was, you know, diluted or just factually wrong. or just believed these things. that would be one thing. the idea that he knows, a number of them, or at least in this case what he told you, is not true. i mean, that just makes -- it takes it to a whole, other level. >> it's -- it's terrible. and, you know, when you -- look at -- look at vaccines. look at, you know, he is a united states senator. they have the -- they have access to more information than you and i do. and to see the efficacy of these things. to see -- you know, that's the golden ticket to get out of this thing. and yet, he goes on national television and talks about how he is not going to get the vaccine and how people are dying. that's -- that's -- that's disqualifying. right? he is a senator that -- that is

not worthy of that title. and yes, when it comes to this election, it -- it is disgusting because i mean, this -- this is the big lie. the integrity of the election. what -- what are we going to say about his election? you know, it's -- it really is -- is unconscionable, the things he's been doing. >> yeah, mark becker, appreciate your time. thank you. >> happy father's day. >> you, too. just ahead. normalcy returns to a sold-out madison square garden here, in new york city. we'll be right back.

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in new york, nothing says back to normal like a big, sold-out show at the garden. that is what happened sunday night. capacity crowd, a maskless-capacity crowd there to see foo fighters. all you needed was the ticket price and proof of vaccination. this was the first concert at madison square garden since the pandemic shut down the city. remarkable sight to see. front man, dave grohl, stopped several times to ask the crowd, did you miss it? he also had a surprise guest