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thank you for watching. thank you for giving us the opportunity. d lemon on "don lemon tonight," right now. >> miss me?

>> shows so much? so much. i have nothing but great memories, whenever we spend time together. >> so, i know that you missed me during the handoff. not -- i mean, laura's great but, you know -- >> there's only one handoff. >> there is only one handoff. right, laura? i love you. she is an upgrade, from me, absolutely. but i do have to say that you didn't see me on tv but we did get to spend time together. this is us at lunch on saturday. do you see that? look at all the guys on one side of the table. all the women, on the other side of the table. so, this is us. and my adopted family. these are most of chris's friends, who have now become my friends. really, really, really great people. otherwise, they would not be in my life and, of course, my fiance and my dog's. okay. so, i enjoyed seeing you on my vacation. but i also enjoyed this picture, right here, because i know my mom's at home going, hey, where are we? so there is my family at the same restaurant, by the way, on

two different days. we just happened to go to the same restaurant. it's our favorite. should i tell people where it is? >> sure. >> it's in greenport. yeah. >> not like we get a break on the bill. >> i guarantee you. >> it ain't free. all right. we pay for everything we get in that place. >> it's true. and the reason i have it in this order is because we have been talking about what's happening with the -- um -- delta variant and with the vaccine and with covid. and there's a big part of my family discussion, about whether they should come here or not. my mom was worried. she is worried about delta variant, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. but the interesting thing is the conversations i had, chris, regarding vaccines. you and i are on television every single night. doesn't mean that -- um -- our families are going to do what we say. they're independent people. my mom, of course, gung-ho sister, whatever. my nieces. they were -- now, that they are not anti-vaxxers by any means. it's not politically motivated but they were -- the urgency to get a vaccine just wasn't there, for them. they didn't get it, early on.

and um, they were also saying, well, i don't know about the kids and what have you. but it was just interesting to hear their conversations, regarding the vaccine. whether or not it was too quick. they're worried about what was going to happen, if they got it and if they were going to have, you know, any repercussions from it or any side effects. but they -- there was just -- they were living everyday life and like, hey, i am going to get it. still wearing a mask and what have you but they are also in a very red state. i don't know if that had to do -- anything to do with it. maybe, it was the messaging. who knows? but it was certainly interesting to hear them, after not seeing them for two years. >> i don't blame 'em. one, we conform to community. and what's happening around us is most likely going to affect how we feel about us. also, i blame the biden administration. i had tony fauci on, tonight, dr. fauci. they are not making the case to people, like your cousins and nieces, well enough. and they are not talking the approval talk. 6 49% of people who haven't had the vaccine say, it being fda

approved would help them. now, fauci says, ah, it's just k crossing the ts and dotting the is. it's going to happen but it hasn't. they don't talk about it. biden doesn't talk about it. they don't have the fda person outfront talking about the process, when it's going to happen, why it hasn't happened, to reassure them. and think that they are losing the messaging game and it's a mistake. >> yeah. well, there is a lot to discuss on all of this. and again, i think that we can -- we need to continue to do our parts. but there is, you know, something going on in the country out there. and again, this is not like cpac with the people saying, oh, it's -- i am going to do this and the biden -- it's not. but there is, you know, not everyone has the urgency. >> 49%. >> some people are just ambivalent about it. >> -- say if it was fda approved, they would take it. let me tell you where that comes in. your kids. let me tell you who is thinking twice about giving it to their kids. me. why? because i don't know. and i was going to take it, no matter what. why? i don't have the same-risk

profile for myself that i do my kids. the 18-year-old got the vaccine. 15-year-old? all right. we are going to do it. that's what they want in school. fine. i'd like to know more about it. i will be talking to the doctors in my life about what we know about it for kids. what are the risks? what aren't? if it were approved, would it make a difference to me? yes, it would. and i know tony fauci, very well. >> and that was the conversation in our house. a lot of things but i got to tell you. of all the fighting and -- um -- and -- and good -- and talks and discussions that we had and catching up. it was amazing to be with family. there's nothing like being with your family. even though -- >> reminds you why you are how you are, and they let you know exactly who you are to them. >> why haven't i seen chris? >> well, listen. i -- you know, i always love to see your mother. she's a good lady. and i just hope that you were different when it comes to the wallet, in that lunch, than you were in the other lunch. >> uh, trust me, my wallet is hurting, right now.

>> let me ask you something at home and then i am going to get out of here. waitress walks up to somebody with a clipboard. >> yeah. >> starts talking to them. they reach in their pocket, give something to the waitress, and walk away. what do you think they were talking about? i tell you what don lemon said. don lemon sees this happen. the woman walks away with my credit card. he goes like this, wait, wait, what was that? wait. did he just -- ah. i mean, come on. >> see ya. >> i love you, d lemon. >> hey. >> yes. >> did you just call me -- >> never. >> get vaccinated, people. that's all i got to say, despite the conversation that we had. we are talking real stuff but get vaccinated. thank you, brother, i love you. >> this is "don lemon tonight." i am so happy to be back. i hope that you enjoyed -- i know you enjoyed laura. she is an upgrade, from me. but now, we're back so let's get to the discussion now. so, yes, people are having conversations about the vaccine in my own family. as i just said. but we have got a miracle that -- that's right in our hands, right now. actually, it's right in our arms.

vaccines that are saving millions and millions of lives. allowing us to get back to some semblance of normal. letting us hug yourour loved on again. letting us get out into the world. letting me see people i haven't seen in two years, right? so, you can thank science for that. science. science. i had a discussion with my family about science. i said how did you get here? they said on an airplane. i said that is science. you believed in that. believe in the science. so, there -- yet, there are people out there who want to take advantage of people's questions, their hesitation. who are so determined to divide us that they'll spread every kind of misinformation, every kind of lie. they'll put the lives of their own supporters at risk. in just the past week, average-covid cases or the case rates, i should say, ra were ab three-times higher in states that have fully vaccinated less than half their residents. that is a fact.

so, what would you even say about this? what can you even say about this? the audience at this big-conservative jamboree called cpac over the weekend. cheering the fact that the biden administration fell short of its goal of vaccinating 70% of adults, by july 4th. watch this. >> because clearly, they were hoping, the government was hoping, that they could sort of sucker 90% of the population into getting vaccinated. and it -- and it -- and it isn't happening, right? there -- there's a -- younger people. >> cheering. cheering about not getting vaccinated. that's not cool. the vaccine is free. it's widely available. and it can save your life and the lives of your loved ones. it's not about politics, at all. it's not about whether you're a republican or a democrat. it's about lifesaving vaccines. >> the vaccine is extraordinarily effective in

real-world effectiveness. 99.5% of all the people who have died from covid were unvaccinated. the vaccinations and the vaccine work, spectacularly well. >> so, people who are vaccinated aren't the ones in hospitals. okay? they're not the ones who are dying. if you're not vaccinated, you're right in the sights of this virus. and giving the more contagious, delta variant a chance to take hold, as a matter of fact. yet, over at the propaganda network, right-wing media, they're going full tilt with their misinformation campaign. senator dick durban blasting the lies on the senate floor, today. >> there are two hosts of programs on fox prime time that can only be characterized as anti-vax quacks. i am referring, of course, to tucker carlson and laura ingram. they are not doing america any favors.

and i hope that fox will come to its senses. >> well, doesn't seem very likely, does it? even rupert murdoch, himself, got vaccinated. he did it months ago. he urged everyone else to get it, too. yet, his network's stars are doing everything they can to scare people out of getting vaccinated. >> things like that tend to happen when a distracted, submissive population allows the government to dictate what medical procedures they get. what drugs they take. >> going door to door. this is creepy stuff. you know, someone comes up to your door outside, wearing a mask, showing up at your house claiming to work for the government. asking you personal-medical questions. what could possibly go wrong there? >> whatever. the right bears responsibility for all their misinformation. for lies that are putting people's lives at risk. they bought into the lies from the former president, even though he is not even in power, anymore. his party has spawned a bunch of

wannabes and mouthpieces like the ones on the propaganda network. they gave the former guy a platform on maria bartaromo's show to lie, again. to lie about the insurrection at the capitol. and while he was giving interviews, spreading lies about love in the air on one of the darkest days in this country's history. this is the reality of what happened. okay? so, take a seat and watch. new videos, tonight, released by the justice department showing rioters, violently, attacking police, as some in the crowd appear to try to steal a riot shield and jab a flagpole at an officer. i want you to look, closely, too. because you are going to see what appeared to be trump flags and a maga hat. we're not bleeping any of the cursing. so, you're going to get the full context.

>> let him go. let him go. >> and that, my dear viewer, that's the reality. but sadly, millions of people believe in the big lie. they believe the lie, that the election was stolen. a lie. they believe the lie of bogus-voter fraud. another look at this. take a look at cnn's donie o'sullivan. he talked to some of 'em. >> what are you hoping to hear from trump? >> that he is going to regain his rightful seat, as president. >> in 2024? >> no. >> when? >> as soon as the election is so overturned for the election fraud. >> do you guys think the election was fair? >> no. >> no. >> no. >> they tried to tell us the tarrant county election, we went blue for the first time since

1962. it's not called an insurrection, to me. what about it was an insurrection? >> they stormed the capitol. >> who? who's they? >> the trump supporters. >> [ bleep ]. >> i mean, i'm sorry. bull [ bleep ]. you don't know who those people were. >> know, some trump supporters were invited in and there's video and there's audio that they said come on in. >> never mind, what the indictments say, what the prosecutors say. what's been happening in court. never mind any of that. never mind the facts, i should say. those folks donie talked to have been told lies, over and over. they are adults. but lies they have been led to believe. again, they are adults. lies, the gop and right-wing media are, still, spreading. and while bumbling kraken lawyers are falling all over themselves in a michigan courtroom trying to push their

lawsuit to throw out the state's votes in the last election. a lawyer for the city of detroit called an embarrassment to the legal profession, the big lie lives on in the form of what is happening in texas and that's where democrats fled the state, tonight, in a desperate effort to block the republican majority from passing a restrictive-new voting law. tailor made to push lies about nonexistent, widespread voter fraud. two private planes landing in washington tonight carrying the majority of the democrats, fleeing texas. sources telling cnn they kept their plan a secret because they can legally be -- they can be compelled, legally, to return to the state's capitol. and believe law enforcement could be sent to track them down. now, they are, reportedly, hoping to meet with senate democrats, while they're in washington. the texas governor, greg abbott, threatening to arrest them as soon as they come back to texas. the attorney general, ken paxton, who, by the way, himself, is under a federal

investigation over allegations of using his office to help a political donor, saying tonight, and i quote here, it's shameful and they have failed as elected officials. the vice president, by the way, kamala harris, praising them as leaders. >> i will say that -- that they are -- um -- they are leaders, who are marching in the path that so many others before did when they fought, and many died, for our right to vote. >> and here we are, tonight. texas democrats fleeing their state in a last-ditch effort to block a restrictive, new voting law, as the gop is pushing its assault on our most sacred right, as americans. the right to vote. after 17 states have passed nearly-30 laws to cut back on ballot access. all, in support of the big lie of bogus-voter fraud. so tonight, we got it all covered for you. we're going to -- a lot more to come on this desperate fight by

the texas lawmakers. i am going to talk to one of them sfwlplus our very own dr. sanjay gupta is here with everything you need to know about the vaccines, the delta variant, and the boosters. that's coming up. >> the cdc and fda said based on the data we know right now, we don't need a booster. that doesn't mean that won't change. and we might -- we might need, as a matter of fact, at some time, to give boosters either across the board or to certain-select groups. icy hot. ice works fast. heat makes it last. feel the power of contrast therapy, so you can rise from pain.

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so texas democrats arriving in washington, d.c. tonight, after fleeing their state to block a restrictive voting bill. but republican governor greg abbott is threatening to keep calling special session -- a special session -- session after session to force the vote. well, joining me now, one of the lawmakers who arrived in d.c. today. texas state representative, jasmine crockett. state rep, thank you so much. i appreciate you joining us. >> thanks for having me, don. >> so this is a very dramatic move. you are planning on staying at least in d.c. or out of the state, until august 7th. is that going to stop what texas republicans are trying to do? >> um, staying out until august 7th at least stops it, for now. um, the governor is right. he can continue to call special sessions. one thing that the governor is not telling everyone is that because he defunded the legislature, unless the supreme court rules in our favor, there

will be no staff to do anything, come september 1. so, seemingly, the longest that we really have to hold out is until september 1. because you can't pass any bills, without the people that actually write the bills. we wouldn't have house administration. we wouldn't have our parliamentarians. we wouldn't have those that, actually, make sure that they work our committees. we couldn't do anything. so, this is an issue that he created. so, it'll be interesting to see him to try to fix it up. >> uh-huh. okay. so, you know, again, we talked about him calling special session, after special session. that's what he promised to do. he also says that you can be arrested for fleeing. and kept inside the texas capitol, until the job is done. what's your response to that? >> um, so he's so dramatic. it's -- it's -- it's interesting that he was actually on our supreme court, as well as was our attorney general, at some point. so, let me tell you what the law is so that everyone understands. um, so, we have not committed a

crime. and so, under the u.s. constitution and the texas constitution, you can't arrest people that haven't committed a crime. so, we've not committed a crime. what can happen is we can be detained. so, we can have someone come and get us. but that's so long as they have jurisdiction. and i know that the governor may believe that he's president, now. but he's not. and hopefully, will never be the president of these united states. but he does not have jurisdiction over all united states. he has jurisdiction over texas. and so, it's actually our sergeants in the house that it says, in the rules, that they can actually go after us. the law is, still, unclear as to whether or not the speaker can, then, go ahead and say, hey, we're going to deputize these dps officers. and these officers can go after them. but even still, their jurisdiction would not extend outside the state of texas which we are outside the state of texas and prepared to stay outside the state of texas. so nothing's going to happen. we are -- we are not going to be

pulled back in. >> i mean, honestly, you really can't hide. i mean, they're -- they know where you are. >> exactly. we're in d.c. >> i know, but if you're in d.c. or whatever, i mean, listen. there are ways to find out. all they have to do is call the airline and figure where you went. >> absolutely. yeah. no. >> so listen. to -- to his point, though, this bill is going to be voted on, at some point. and you -- you don't have the votes. so, are you -- are you just delaying the inevitable here? i know you said that you have until september. but are you just delaying the inevitable? >> you know, i hope that that's not what we're doing. i hope that, you know, this is seen as a full-court press. last time we were in d.c., we had already killed a bill. we have a lot of bill sitting there. so i am hoping that we can really impress upon those here in d.c. how important this is and how far we're willing to go because it's just that bad. the last time we were in d.c., it wasn't the entire delegation but we were able to move the

needle a little bit with senator manchin. we didn't have an opportunity to sit down with senator sinema. i am hoping and i am praying, that with all that we're going through, the fact that over-50 members had to leave their families, leave their children, leave their husbands for democracy because we have people that are trying to run the texas house, in a way that is tyrannical. you know, i am hoping that they see and they say, man, you know, if the republicans can go through all of this to do wrong. let us just take our step to do what's right because we have the majorities here, on the federal level. that is my hope and prayer. and then, they can pass their dumb bill and we can do what always happens in texas. is they always get told, this was an intentionally-discriminatory bill. and, therefore, we are striking portions of this bill. that is what's going to happen. but it will only happen, if we have federal oversight, like we historically have had. >> okay. let's talk about this. and why you -- why you believe,

the democrats believe -- why the democrats are taking such drastic and dramatic action here. explain, to me, what this bill means for voting in texas. what will happen, if it does become law? >> yeah. you know, so, some of the things that we heard about, most people may not realize. but harris county is a pretty large place. that's where houston is. so is dallas county. and what we are seeing in our urban centers is that we are growing, so fast. in fact, the dfw area added over 160,000 people, just in the midst of the beginning of the pandemic. um, we grew faster than any, other urban area in the country. we are picking up two congressional seats, because we are growing so fast. so, what the legislature is trying to do is say, no, no, no. in those urban centers, we want to make sure that they have those long lines that they have to stand in line for four and five hours because that's where all the black and brown people are. they don't want them to have

open -- open and easy access to the ballot box. so when you saw chris hollands decide, hey, we're going to do drive-thru voting. well, it's really no different than curbside voting and we have had curbside voting for quite some time, now. and so, this idea that we are going to take this away, especially once we saw the statistics and we saw that the majority of people that used that -- that drive-thru voting were minorities. we heard testimony from first responders on saturday saying, hey. you know, we were working 24-hour shifts fighting this pandemic. doing everything that we could but we still wanted to vote. and it was so beneficial that we, either, had the ability to do drive-through voting or we had the ability to -- to actually vote 24 hours a day, instead of it just being kind of this small window. you know, texas is the biggest state or second-biggest state. either way, we're too big, right? and so, when you look at a place like east texas, where i used to reside, i was actually the democratic party chair out there. and i never would have asked for or tried to get, you know, polls

to be opened 24 hours. it wasn't necessary. we didn't have the population. but when you look at a place, like harris county, it -- it, absolutely, did what it was supposed to do. and that was -- that is what was frightening to the republicans. they see that their power is dissipating. they see that black and brown people are voting. the growth, in the last ten years, 80% of it, in the last decade, has been because of people of color. >> uh-huh. >> that is what's scary in texas. >> and the bill, s.b. 7, correct? >> the old bill was s.b. 7. >> s.b. 7. >> we've got h.b. 3 and s.b. 1. >> okay. well, and s.b. 7 and -- and -- and these -- and some of the other ones would have made casting mail-in ballots harder. banned drive-thru voting centers. >> absolutely. >> as you said. and 24-hour voting tactics at harris county, the home of houston, used in the 2020 election. empowered poll workers, made it easier for courts to overturn election results. effectively, outlawed black

churches' souls to the polls, get out the vote push, and more. that's what's at stake here. and that's why democrats are doing what they're doing. listen. good luck. good luck. >> be optimistic, don. we can do this. >> look. it's not up to me. i am just saying good luck. it's a huge undertaking for -- for -- >> it is. >> -- for what you are doing and for the amount of time. thank you so much. i appreciate it. >> thank you so much. >> thank you very much. the delta variant, rapidly, spreading across the u.s., especially in places with low-vaccination rates. one expert warning, a surprising amount of death could, soon, follow. let's talk to dr. sanjay gupta about that, next. ahhh! get out of here mouse. ahhh! ♪ don't flex your pecs. terminix. go with simparica trio it's triple protection made simple!

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here are the two battling to the line

and allyson felix... simone manuel's above her trying to fight on, and above simone... getting an opportunity to show her stuff. nonstop, displayed at the highest performance level... finding something and the us takes gold! ♪ dream on ♪ ♪ dream on ♪ ♪ dream on ♪ ♪ dream on ♪ - yes! ♪ ahhhhhhh ♪ ♪ dream until your dreams come true ♪ well, covid cases, up, in the u.s. notably, in areas with low vaccination rates. and health experts say the delta variant is behind that spike. and the cdc out with a stunning number. 99% of coronavirus deaths in june, occurring among people who are unvaccinated. let's talk about that and more with cnn's chief-medical

correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta. doctor, good to see you. thanks for joining. >> hey, don. of course. >> so before we talk about variants and rising-case numbers, people need to know if you are vaccinated. you're protected from serious illness or death, am i correct? >> yeah. no. that -- that -- that is -- that is what the initial trial showed. and now, you got, you know, close to a billion people who have received vaccines around the world and the real-world data reflects that. as you just mentioned, don, 99% of people who are ending up in the hospital are unvaccinated. i mean, that -- that is a -- that is a -- quite a crucial statistic, if you think about it. it's still out there. it's still making people sick. but 99 times out of 100, someone's getting sick enough to go to the hospital, it's because they haven't received the vaccine. >> what about breakthrough cases, sanjay, that we are hearing about? a cluster here, on the east coast. the town manager of provincetown, known as p town, a popular-beach destination in cape cod, says that he is aware

of positive-covid cases and a number of them are breakthrough. should vaccinated people be concerned? >> no. this is a really important sort of anecdote that's going on here. i think it's -- it tells a story. first of all, people who are vaccinated. what the data has shown is that they are far less likely to get sick, far less likely to get sick enough to go to the hospital. again, as we said, that has remained true. could you develop an infection and usually, these are people who get tested because they have to get tested. they have no idea. they have no symptoms. they're surprised when it comes back positive. these are these breakthrough infections and they do occur. but again, they're -- they're not likely to -- to get sick or at least very sick from this. what i think is crucial, don, here. and this is sort of a little bit of the science meets the art. if you are vaccinated, you live in a community that's primarily vaccinated. but now, it's vacation time. lots of people may be coming. you may be surrounded by increasing number of unvaccinated people. does that make you more likely

to develop a breakthrough infection? yes. that's the thing. if there's more virus circulating, you're going to be more at risk. you are still well protected against getting sick. but you're -- you -- you -- you may -- you may, still, develop a positive test if the virus is circulating around you. >> okay. just how contagion is the delta variant? that's what people are wondering, as well. can you help us understand that? >> yeah. so if the original strain that you and i were talking about last year at this time was a certain amount transmissible. pretty transmissible. then, when the alpha variant came along, that was 50% more transmissible. this is 60% more transmissible than that. so this is close to double transmissible as what we were talking about this time last year. but, don, this screen that you're looking at right now. this -- this is really important. if it's alpha or delta. alpha is now -- that -- that was the uk variant. india is the -- is the delta variant. look how protective these -- these vaccines are. whether it's infection. whether it's symptoms or the bar graph on the right. the far right.

is, you know, people getting sick enough to be hospitalized. 95, 96% protective against that. so, it is far-more transmissible. don, someone said to me and i think it was an interesting way of putting it. said we keep thinking of america sort of as the vaccinated and the unvaccinated. what -- what it's going to become, given how transmissible this is, is the vaccinated and the infected. >> uh-huh. >> this is an unforgiving variant, if you are not vaccinated and you are out and about. you're likely to get infected, at some point. that's become the reality here. >> okay. so, you said it's, like, 50%, right, the transmission rate, 50% higher. so, what does that mean? is everything we learned, you know, spreads, standing six feet apart, staying outside, even wearing masks. would that still apply, even with the delta variant, that is more contagious, right? if i am using the right terminology than the other? >> yeah. no, it's -- it's a really good question. i mean, i think if you are diligent about those measures.

especially, outside and especially masks. one thing about the six feet apart is that we now know that this is likely to be aerosolized. so, even if you are further than six feet apart inside, that may not offer you protection as much. it's kind of like if someone's smoking in your house in a bedroom, far off in a different part of the house. you are likely to smell it, at some point. think of the virus kind of like that. but, yeah. masks. being outdoors. those things, still, work and are definitely recommended for people who are unvaccinated. but -- but vaccination is -- is so protective. i mean, you know, again, close to a billion people now vaccinated around the world. we have the data to show just how effective it is. >> so i want to ask you about this -- um -- about hearing, tonight -- we are hearing that -- that the possibility of johnson & johnson -- supposedly, it's a warning -- johnson & johnson's coronavirus vaccine might raise the risk of a neurological complication. what is that risk? and what exactly is the complication? >> yeah. so, this is a situation called

guillain-barre syndrome. guillain-barre syndrome. people may have heard of this. it's -- it's often characterized by what's called an ascending paralysis. meaning, you may develop some numbness and weakness in your feet. and then, it sort of ascends up your body. and it can be quite alarming for people. i've seen patients with this, don. what they found was a safety signal, meaning out of 12.5 million people, roughly, that have received the johnson & johnson vaccine. um, about 100 of them. so about ten in a million had this sort of problem. this guillain-barre syndrome. most times, it does resolve. but i don't want to minimize this. it can be a few weeks, before people start to actually imp prove improve their symptoms. typically, men. typically, over the age of 50. which is you and i, i think, both of us. but it is rare, don. and one thing i want to just give some context here is that the chance of developing guillain-barre, after the flu, for example, would be higher than the chance of developing guillain-barre after this johnson & johnson shot.

so again, i don't want to minimize it. that's why these safety signal studies are conducted. there will be a warning label on that vaccine. and, you know, you have to take it in that full context, though. >> yeah. i'm glad you -- that was my next question. about what -- what can happen after getting the flu because you can get guillain-barre not just from -- it's not just a side effect from a vaccine, correct? >> that's right. >> yeah. >> that's right. i mean, just the inflammatory response to the -- to -- to an illness, overall, can do it. >> i learned so much with you, dr. gupta. not only here, but you you know where. i sent you a text. i loved you on "jeopardy." i thought you were amazing. i really enjoyed it and i learned from you. >> i appreciate it. and i love seeing those pictures of you with your family. >> oh, my gosh, it was great. thanks for talking to my mom and helping her get here. i needed did it. now, she's like, can i come back for labor day? and i haven't answered her yet. so we will think about that one. >> hi, mom. >> thank you. >> have her back. have her back. >> thank you, sanjay. appreciate it. so let's talk about cpac.

proving that what was, once, the fringe is now really the heart of the gop. where does our country go when baseless-conspiracy theories are baked into one of our major-political parties? guess what and guess who? come on, you are on tv, john kasich. we will talk to him right after this break.

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the big lie repeated over

and over and over, again, at a conference of republican conservatives. and many in attendance trying to whitewash the violence at the capitol on january 6th. i want to discuss, now. cnn senior commentator, john kasich, the former republican governor of ohio is here. i can't wait to get to this conversation. good to see you, sir. right into it. so, this big lie took center stage at cpac. we heard attempts to rewrite january 6th and other baseless conspiracies. the fringe has taken hold of the gop. it's, now -- it's now -- i mean, look. it's the mainstream. so, what does this mean for the country? >> well, it's not mainstream. it's cpac, don. if you went down to cpac, at this -- i actually spoke at cpac years ago, when it was kind of like, you know, sane. and this is a bunch of extremists gathered with a guy coming in and, you know, using red meat to fire them up. but, you know, i talked to a friend of mine in new hampshire today. he said the party's shrinking and that's just the way it is. and people know january 6th -- republicans know january 6th was a terrible, terrible blow to the united states of america.

and so, you have some people that just, you know, they just don't want to pay attention. they live in a silo. and anything that doesn't agree with their point of view, they reject. and what happened at cpac, in regard to the virus. what happened with trump's speech. it was -- it was just terrible. it was outrageous. you know? it was a terrible situation. but don't -- don't say that everybody, who is a republican, is now buying into this because they're not. >> it's not that everyone who is a republican. i said it's now -- it's now the mainstream in the republican party. i know that -- >> i don't think that's right. >> well, i -- but your assessment may be anecdotal but what it shows, with lawmakers, all but a few of them, voted to, you know, not for the commission. they didn't -- >> yeah. >> they voted not to confirm the results of the election. i mean, is -- you know? it's not just the fringe, anymore. >> well, i would only say this. that -- that politicians are not the definition of who's in the party. i mean, i've been very critical of these folks and i will

continue to be. >> don't they feel like -- because if the base wanted something else, wouldn't they change what they're -- >> no. well, i mean, a lot of 'em are afraid. they just want to get re-election, they want power. but if you are saying to me that, because of their actions in the united states house on january 6th, that -- that -- you know, in terms of that commission, that, therefore, they represent the party. they don't represent me and they don't represent a lot of republicans. and remember, don, the party's shrinking. people are leaving the party, in droves. because they don't approve of this. >> yeah. >> so we got to see where -- how this plays out. >> still, listen. they want power. i mean, that's -- obviously, you know that's no better, right? it's actually worse. but listen. there is so much to talk about. but i want to get -- i want to move on because we could talk about that part of it, all -- all night. >> sure. >> at cpac, too, we heard cheers over the country missing the vaccination goal. i mean, it's really terrifying to think about the implications of that. especially, with the very contagious delta variant spreading, rapidly. i just spoke with dr. gupta about that. >> yeah. right.

>> yeah. go ahead. what do you think? >> oh. i -- oh, i thought we were going to hear from somebody. >> no, i just heard from dr. gupta. it was in the segment before you. >> oh, okay. don, it is disgraceful. what can i tell you? you got a bunch of extremists gathered at an event with other extremists coming to them and feeding them with a bunch of hogwash. i mean, it's like -- you know, it's -- it's the far right. it's -- it's the extreme part of the party. and they invite -- you know, they'd invite me to go down there to talk. they only invited people that would tell them what they wanted to hear. >> yeah. >> it's -- there's nothing unusual about that. i mean, that happens in politics. it's just what they're doing here, in regard to the virus, so many things, january 6th, everything else. it's disgraceful. what else can i do? i mean, i'm not going to set myself on fire about this. i'm just telling you that it's horrible. and i believe over time this will change. >> look. okay. maybe, you're right about that. but if you look at the polling, it doesn't really reflect what you're saying, john.

it reflects that people are buying into the big lie. into what trump said. into what they are hearing on, you know, the propaganda media and right-wing media. and you know, there is no-widespread voter fraud. the election was not stolen. january 6th was an insurrection. >> right. >> but the polling says the exact opposite of what you are saying right now. i think for -- i think, for most centrists and for most sane people in this country. they want what you're saying to be true. but it is not reflected in the polling. >> yeah. i -- well, it depends what poll you look at. i don't want to debate polls but it's not a majority of republicans that think the election was stolen. and, you know what? call somebody up and you ask what they think and they tell you something. look, at the end of the day, don, something we have to keep in mind. believe it or not. the democrats lost the seats in this last election. joe biden won because he was the antipathy of donald trump.

but let's not get carried away with the democrat philosophy. there are a number of democrat liberals who are now warning people about the leftward drift of the democratic party on things, like defunding police, soft on crime. just look at your guy that just is going to be the mayor of new york, thank god he is going to do a great job. on the borders. on many things. and so, what i'm suggesting to you is, you know, the -- the -- the democrat party has to be careful. that they don't go out of the in fact, this guy who writes for mother jones said the democratic party has moved farther to the left on social issues than the republican party has moved. it's very interesting -- >> you mean farther to the left than the republican party -- >> but that doesn't absolve the republican party of some of this crazy stuff. it just didn't. >> you mean they've moved further to the left than the republican party has moved to the right. i don't know if that's true because if you look at the people -- hang on. before you do that -- >> i'm listening to you. >> if you look at the people who

democrats have elected, it doesn't show you that the far left was elected. it shows you that moderate democrats were elected. so perhaps the media and perhaps the extreme voices in the democratic party are the ones who are getting most of the attention. now, look, i'm neither democrat nor republican, but i don't see for the most part democrats who believe in defunding the police. joe biden has said he doesn't believe in defunding the police. it's not a tenet of the democratic party. i think a lot of that is from right-wing media and maybe just media in general not actually pay paying attention to -- >> look, peggy noonan wrote a column, not a left winger or right winger. i'm not on here to defend the party. mr. drum, who writes for mother jones says the white activist class won't like this, but moving to the left while galvanizing the progressive base risks outrunning the vast middle

part of the company, which progressive activists seem completely uninterested in talking to. >> progressive activists. >> this is not my opinion. >> that's not the bulk of the democratic party. >> don, that's who's calling the tune in the democratic party. no, it is. let me tell you. if we have an election today for the u.s. house -- >> stand by, producers, please. hold on. you're talking. i got it, but i want to hear what john has to say. this is a great conversation. go on. sorry. >> what i'm saying to you, don, is the middle of this country today -- look, this whole woke culture, what's happening, the democrats are involved in some respects revolution rather than evolution. you see, in public life, if you move too fast and too far and people don't understand what you're doing, you lose. >> yeah. >> that's what's happening. that's what the democrats are risking. now, let me also say that evolution's not an execution for doing nothing on police reform, on the border, on any of these issues. i'm just trying to say to you,

you know, the democrats had better be careful. and the republicans, cripe, i don't even know what they stand for. i'm like you are. i don't know what to think. >> i think you're right about that. moving too far in any one direction -- in any destruction is not good. >> yeah. >> but here's the thing. just remember there are always policy -- we have disagreements about policy. we have disagreements about what legislation should be enacted. we shouldn't have disagreements about what is reality and what is not, what is the truth and what is a lie. one is detrimental to the republic and the democracy. the other one is a debate that we have always had in politics. just remember that, okay? >> let me tell you this. i agree with that completely, and if you think about cpac, there were no cheers for anything they were for to solve a problem. all the cheers were for the negative stuff about our country, negative stuff a lot of which they made up. it's disgraceful. i can't be any clearer about that. but both parties got to watch where they are, specifically the republican party of which i'm

still a member, believe it or not. >> i'm in major trouble. i've gone on too long. >> i know, but this is what we do, don lemon. we've been gone for a week. of course we had to do this. >> sorry in advance. all right. see you later. thank you. we'll be right back. >> all right, man. thanks. you know when your dog is itching for a treat.

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