thank you for watching, and giving us the opportunity. it's time now for don lemon tonight with its big star, d lemon. >> you did hear me screaming? i thought i left my jacket in this studio, and i got here just a minute ago, and i go, ah! i had to run down stairs. whoo! in order to get my jacket. >> finally. >> i thought you would hear me. it was loud. so how you feeling? >> better than i deserve. >> yeah? >> we have been talking a lot about the vaccines, vaccine misinformation, all the fda apr approval, on and on, doing research on that, and i think a lot -- listen, it's important that you are fda approved, the

vaccines, but everything i'm reading says the fda approval doesn't matter as much. what matters is the after kacy, and what meaters is efficacy, and it's become a talking point, people are putting emphasis on the fda approval, and what matters is the afefficacy. >> 49% of people say that fda approved matters. >> no. >> that doesn't -- >> that is the numbers. >> i know, i tried to argue the numbers the other night, and you said perception. >> what are you talking about? >> i was giving you facts and you said the facts is reality. a whole thing. whatever. >> don -- >> the same thing about this. the facts of the matter is that the efficacy is what makes --

what makes a difference when it comes to the vaccine, not someone's idea about fda approval when there's no research or facts to back it up. so maybe 49% believe that, but what they are believing is not actually the truth, and our job is to tell people the truth about the vaccine. >> the truth is nothing gets fda approval without efficacy. >> that's not true. >> you can't get fda approval if you can't show that is vaccine is effective. >> well, you can get the emergency authorization. >> that's not approval. that is an eua. >> that is emergency use authorization. that is what i just said to you a minute ago. >> don, your ability to speak is great. your ability to listen is -- you must listen as well. >> yes, okay. >> efficacy is db.

>> many people interpret the lack of fda approval means that they are suspect. but this is a misrepresentation of the facts. >> i don't disagree with this. just because something hasn't received fda approval yet, doesn't mean it's bad. but if it has received fda approval, it means you can count on it as good. >> does that mean it's good? >> that is 49% of people. if it's fda approved, it better be good. >> i think that has become -- it's escape mechanism, or i just want to have my political angle on the vaccine. i don't want to tell people so therefore i'm going to say, if it's not fda approvaled, therefore, i'm not going to get it. >> they have better reasons than

that. >> i don't believe that if all of a sudden this is fda approved starting yesterday or starting tomorrow, that people will run out and say, it's fine now. i think the next excuse would be the next excuse. >> well, the numbers are suggestive, and i think it's odd -- putt it this way. i never heard of a conversation of a drug that wasn't fda approved whether it should be mandated, i never heard that before with something that is not fda approved. i know we're in a pandemic. but it's just a box they can check. why not remove it? it's just paper work. the biggest thing is misinformation, and i think that the biggest problem is -- the people spreading it benefit it from. >> i'm going to agree with you on that. people should stop saying that is fda -- it's bs. i think misinformation is the

main thing. >> i think it's both. >> i got to go. >> i want you -- i'm leaving. i'm leaving. you can't go, i love you, d lemon. >> what evs. talk to you season. this is don lemon tonight. this is what we do, this is what you should be doing, discussing with it people whether you agree or disagree. i'm going to be blunt here. i'm going to be blunt, and i want to you listen to me. misinformation is killing us. it's killing us. it's killing our democracy, litera literally killing us. the fact is people who refuse to be vaccinated and listen to the dies are propelling the spread of the virus. a virus that kills. misinformation is killing us. misinformation is killing us. just ask the surgeon general. >> millions of people don't have access to accurate information right now. because on social media platforms, we are seeing a

rampant spread of misinformation and it's costing people lives. >> we know where a lot of misinformation is coming from. it's coming from some in the gop putting -- owning the libs ahead of lies. lies of their own supporters like the qanon congresswoman, and another member of congress calling vaccinators needle nazis. like the crowd cheering at a jamboree, sheering that the biden administration fell short of its goal, vaccinating 70% of adults by jeuly 4th. >> the government was hoping they could sucker 90% of the population into getting vaccinated. and it isn't happening. younger people -- >> so cnn's o'sullivan talked

about why people are refusing vaccines. watch this. >> do you know people who got sick and died from the virus? >> i know people who got it and died. but i know people who got cancer and died too. >> you know three people who died from coronavirus and you won't get the vaccine? >> no, i don't need the vaccine. >> have you gotten vaccinated in. >> no, won't do it. >> can you chose why? >> i'm allergic to the chemicals and stuff, and freedom. if you have an abortion and choose your body, should i choose if i get a shot. >> i have heart problems. so i just don't feel there's enough data on it to warrant me doing it. >> yeah. >> got to wait a little bit and see how it works out. >> so they have pre-existing conditions which makes them more susceptible to the virus. okay, listen, your body, your

choice. i said it before, people who are vaccinated aren't the ones in hospitals though. they're not the ones who are dying. if you're not vaccinated, you're right in the sights of the virus, especially if you have pre-existing conditions, and the delta variant, misinformation is killing us, and it's killing our democracy. the big lie is alive and well, if you tell yourself it's all in the past, here is the proof it's living and breathing today. kevin mccarthy, kissing the ring, getting his marching orders from the undisputed leader of the gop, the big liar, at the new jersey golf club just like he did at mar-a-lago just like after the election. the meeting today didn't include any discussion of the insurrection of the select

committee about to investigate the insurrection. smur sure it didn't. kevin mccarthy knows exactly what his former boss wants him to do, and michael cohen, people who work for him just know what he wants and kevin mccarthy works more that guy. so he's got to know what he wants. and after his meeting with his boss today, he turned around and headed to the white house for a dinner where they welcomed angela merkel. the quotes of the former president calling chancellor merkel that "b" word, and there's more tonight from the bombshell book. they describe a scene where the president is watching tv, and quoting, from the book, he thought this is cool.

he was happy. who was with trump this afternoon, and it and it turned violent, and he thought, oh, crap. he said, i he wasn't worry about making him look bad. he was worried it would make him look bad, and it sounds like he may not have been the only one. the authors right this about ivanka trump. as soon as she saw in her office the rioters were in their office, she said, i'm going down to my dad. she was telling supporters he stood with law enforcement, ordering them to disperse. okay. they go on to quote the presidential adviser who says the daughter was like a stable pony brought in the calm to calm

down an agitated racehorse. i don't know, it sounds like reputation laundry. let's not forget that ivanka trump tweeted and deleted this. calling the insurrectionists, american patriots. her dad responding, the general of the joint chiefs was so shaken by trump's refusal to concede that he worried he might attempt a coup. well, it's not so much a statement. more like a schoolyard insult. quote, if i was going to do a coup, one of the last people i would want to do it with is general mark philly. . i didn't do it, but if i did, this is how i did it. the new books make a case that the threat to our democracy is not in the rear-view mirror. it's clear and present danger. the lies and misinformation, they are killing us and

threatening our democracy, and president biden talking about the new child tax credit that put hundreds of dollars in parents' pockets every month. >> we're proving that democracy can deliver for people and deliver in a ditimely way. saving lives, improving lives, giving working families a fighting chance again. >> so what if the president came out and urged his supporters to get vaccinated. that will count on the misinformation that is killing us? >> we see misinformation literally costing us our loved ones, costing us lives. all of us have to ask how we can be more responsible and accountable for the information we share.

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the surgeon general issues a stark warning about the dangers of health misinformation as covid cases are on the rise. he is calling the misinformation a serious threat to american health, and he said the americans are believes it's myths -- they are believing in

myths about the covid vaccines. but will his warning reach the ears it needs to reach? that is the question. i want to bring in frank luntz. i'm glad you're here. let's talk about the misinformation world we're living in now, and we know who they are. they are leading people to make decisions not based on facts but on party lines. so give me your take on this, and perhaps it should not be based on politics. what do you think? >> it should be. it can't be. if you want people who have not been vaccinated to get the vaccine, you have to give them cre credible evidence. you have to provide them accurate facts which is not always happening here. you have to acknowledge their hesitations and concerns and respect them for it, and remind them that it's not themselves they are making the decision for. their family, friends, people they come in contact with.

the fact is these people who are getting the delta variant right now, the fact is they have not been vaccinated. you're putting your family, friends, community in jeopardy. but we get. we get why you don't want to do it, and we're asking you if the evidence and facts are 51/49, see it on the side of being careful, cautious, and getting the vaccine. that that's the right decision. don't shout of the those who are not vaccinated. don't insult them. empathize with them, and provide the information in a calm, rational way to make the right decision, and frankly, we're going to be worse off if we have people who are not protected. >> a couple things here. so the whole idea about it not being -- it shouldn't be political. but we know who made it political. okay, fine.

but -- and continues to. so that -- that is really the issue here. because i can hit here every night, or the white house, and folks, health experltsts can sa these are the facts, this is why you need to get it, and then you have someone who has a very big microphone telling people other wise. so how do we do all those things? and frankly, if someone is putting my life at risk, my loved ones' lives at risk, my coll colleagues' lives at risk, don't you want to yell at them and say wake up? . >> i will make it easier for you. where i come from, and the people i have supported and work for, i will make it easier for you. joe biden should specifically ask donald trump publicly,

publicly to join him in a psa to come to the white house and be filmed saying, mr. president, mr. president trump, you developed this vaccine in record pace, and you deserve credit for that. because we would in the be able to vaccinate people if not for you, donald trump, and he should tell people, mr. trump, tell your people, right now that you developed the vaccine, your administration, you know it's safe. you took it, your wife took it. your kids have taken it and now it's time for the american people to take it. it's time for your kids to take it, and actually, i would ask joe biden right now. not to call him out but to call on him to do the greatest public service he would. i get trump's emails every day, and i will make it easy for you. every day, they talk about the election being stolen.

if he would spend one day, one day asking his people to make the right decision, to read the evidence, look at the facts, this is not washington, d.c., this is on the donald trump, the person they supported and voted for who himself is taking a jab, i'm in london right now, soy will use their language. it did it and i ask you to do it as well. >> let me jump in here. joe biden has done some of what you have said. he has given the former president credit on a public stage, in a press conference, more than once about developing the vaccine. now, as far as the part about getting him to come to the white house and film him, whatever, do you actually think donald trump would do that? >> i don't. i actually don't. and that's the tragedy of it. but it would put pressure on him

at mar-a-lago, instead of highlights anti-vaxers, and high late the exact -- people need role models and you talked about it. the importance of role models in society, and people who do the right thing, and pointed out, and highlighted. we spend so much time being negative, being critical. and instead, doing the right thing for the right reasons. that is what we challenge president trump to do. you challenge him to save the lives of his own voters. not because they have to. but because they want to, and that's key. fit looks like a mandate requirement, then they won't do it. and the other group, we're forgetting them, the young people. 18 to 29-year-olds who think they won't get the vaccine -- >> and they're getting it. they're becoming ill.

they're becoming susceptible to covid. sorry, we have a delay going. >> that's what we need. we need those -- those young people to know that they are as vulnerable as their parents are, and in fact, i will say in your show for the first time, the group i really want to get involved, right now, before the schools start to open up, is aarp. because the strongest relationship isn't husband and wife. isn't brother and sister, or parent and child, it's grandparent and grandchildren. because they have the same enemy. let's get grandparent, all their grand kids and say, before you go to school, you want you to do your grandmother a favor. i won't make you eat my tuna noodle casserole if you will agree to be vaccinated, and grand kids can't turn down their

grandparents and other group we need to focus on are pharmacists. people know their pharmacist as well as their doctor, and the pharmacists are getting involved, and that makes a difference. i'm trying to find solutions and we have a project that is starting right now that will be advising anyone who is listening, including the current white house, because in reality, we know no partson differences. if i can provide information they are willing to use, good for them, and it's the right thing to do. >> i will tell you, i know exactly how this will go. i'm older than i look by a year or so. sleepy joe couldn't get it done. he had to call me in to get people vaccinated. why would he open himself like that? that is how fox propaganda would cover it as well.

i agree with what you're saying. in a perfect world, that would be amazing and that is how shut work. but i don't think we're at that point right now. we're too far div 1r50ided in. that is where we are a. i got to run. thank you. thank you very much. the same day the world's learning top military leaders fear the president could attempt a coup, the party is willing to be loyal to him. so stay with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ summer is a state of mind, you can visit anytime. savor your summer with lincoln.

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kevin mccarthy is the house minority leader, and he is scurrying to kiss the ring and discuss the 2022 midterms, as he is weighs which house republicans he will choose for the house committee to investigate the capitol insurrection. the chairman of the joint chiefs was concerned the president might attempt a coup following the election loss. joining me is adam navarro and charlie dent. good evening to both of you, charlie, mccarthy is going to kiss the ring. they were concerned about a coup attempt by trump. speaking about it on sean

hannity tonight. i want to you listen. >> these are the discussions i had with trump, talking about the border, the success in the last election, and we even talked about you a little bit too, sean. and that was all good. >> i don't want to know that part. we'll see. >> charlie? >> yeah, well, it's clear that kevin mccarthy and the gop leadership made a calculated decision they need to be close to trump to win the midterms, and look, they just raised $45 million, and national con gregs, that is an incredible haul. it's massive. that part seems to be working for them, and they are limiting their growth potential so close to trump. i don't know how they're going to win back the swing districts

where trump is under water. >> i will tell you quickly, and let you finish. they are trying hard with a critical race theory because they think it appeals to s suburban parents, and sorry to cut you off. >> the bottom line is, it's more mind boggling you have a meeting with former president trump on the same day we're here hearing general milley talk about equating -- 1933 by the nazis to the insurrection. i mean, we heard it before. it's just -- the news gets worse about the insurrection, about the attempt to really prevent the peaceful transfer of power. so again, this is a political calculation. think think it will work. they don't need to win many seats but i think they're taking a great risk. it's a gamble and clearly it's not good for the long term prospects of the party. >> i sigh see you're raring to

get in, go ahead. >> i think kevin mccarthy has mastered the art of sucking up to trump. he realized he is dealing with a man who has a fragile little ego to go along with his little hands, and he has got to constantly be soothing and stroking that ego. one hasn't, mccarthy does not want trump as an enemy. he doesn't want trump meddling in primary races and hard to win districts that republicans may be able to flip or win unless donald trump gets behind somebody who will win the primary that cannot win a general, and i also don't think it's a coincidence, and again, it's about the little ego that needs to be constantly stroked. i don't think it's a coincidence that on the day that kevin mccarthy, on the night that kevin mccarthy will be at a

small dinner with angela merkel who trump dislikes, and hillary clinton, who trump loathes, and kevin mccarthy had to go kiss the ring and soothe trump's nerves, and what he is trying to portray as the white house in exile in bedminster. so i think it has to do a lot to do with that. i think trump was going to throw a jealousy tantrum like a spoiled child. >> bottom line is, you heard -- the very same day, they're meeting and they're strategizing. >> of course. look, there's no question that kevin mccarthy feels he needs to keep donald trump close to him. he needs him more as an ally

than an enemy. he knows if trump turns on him, a significant number of house republicans does too, and you remember when john boehner stepped down, he was taken down, by many of the hard right of the gop conference. so kevin mccarthy is doing everything he can to maintain that support from that wing of the party. i think that's what this is about. >> thank you so much, charlie and anna. i appreciate it. he says there is nothing wrong with the patriotic education, but can critical race theory and patriotism co-exist? stay with us. h friends, knowing you understand your glucose levels. ♪

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so here on this show, we are explained what critical race theory really is, and how it's used and manipulated by the

right to rile up their base. and it's led to protests at school board meetings and efforts to try to ban the theory. the heart of what is vitally important to so many people in the country, and it's our children, and what we teach them about our history, joining me now, ralph has written several articles about racism, and ross, thank you so much. i appreciate you appearing on the program. >> thank you so much for having me. >> i want to start with one of your articles, why a patriotic foundation. that focuses on great their rows, and then introduce wars and all. why is that the best way to introduce history? >> the argument in the column is basically if you think of -- if you think of the history you

learn as something of the history of your family, as you come to maturity, as you become an adult, you're going to want to know the whole history of your family, you know, quarks and all. you want to know about the scandals in the past and things that didn't work out, things that didn't go well. but that's going to be easier to learn if there's a basic foundation of love and affection. and that's easier in certain ways with family, because except in really terrible circumstances, you're in community with your family. you can't help loving them, for better or worse, right in the and history is distant. obviously, it echoes today, and the founding of the united states, the civil war, all the things are distant in many ways, so just like with your family, i think you want to start on a foundation of not even so much love as appreciation. you want to be able to say these

are things that people did in the past that helped found the united states, establish it as a count, make it an et beer country over time, that are admirable. that are fascinating, interesting, that are cool, and that doesn't mean -- like, you can tell a 5-year-old about the civil war. it doesn't mean -- it doesn't mean that you scrub the history. but if you tell the 5-year-old about the civil war, the story will be about how ulysses s. grant, if you tell about black americans, the story will be about hairrriet tubman, and the cruelty and suffering along the way, comes in as kids get older. you're trying to establish a foundation, and you want kids to

be interested in the past and i think one of the dangers, when people sat out to teach the absolute whole truth is you can establish a sense among kids that the past is just a long list of terrible crimes. and before you get to the crimes, you want people -- you want kids -- >> isn't there balance? i'm wondering, that may be okay, i guess, for quite honestly for white kids. before black kids, i learned early on about slavery. i want to an all black catholic school, and some of the things we learned in history is slavery, the degred dags of slavery, and part of my home work was to watch "roots" and that wasn't certainly a pretty picture, and i'm okay, and all the black kids in my class who learned about it are certainly

okay. and i think nicole hannah jones has a good response to this. i asked her about your idea and this is what she said to me. >> must be an amazing luxury to hold off on the painful stuff until the right moment. becauseky tell you as a black american, as an asian american, we can't hold off on the painful parts because they explain so much about our existence, so how does one teach about black p patriots, and not say that the war was against the countrymen to be equalized by full citizens. >> my response to her, how does one teach about harriet tubman, and the underground railroad. doesn't she have a point?

>> no, the argument was -- the story of "roots" itself is a story with an arc. it's a story of -- similar to the black national anthem. it's a story where you're telling a story of suffering and suffering is something that heroic people have fault and overcome. and honestly, i think it's -- the i think the story of story of black americans is the most heroic story in the entire american tapestry, and of course you tell the kids why she was doing the things she was doing. and the story is so start with heroism, and agency, and there are people in the past we want to identify with. i don't think my argument is that far off from -- actually from what -- some of the things

that -- my colleague nicole wrote at the beginning of the 1619 project. this is a story how black americans were -- you know, the people who were sort of calulle the country to become what its founding documents said it was going to be. >> i want to keep you around. we have much more to talk about. this conversation not over yet. more with ross next. next, apparently carvana doesn't have any "bogus" fees. bogus?! now we work hard for those fees. no hundred-dollar fuel fee? pumping gas makes me woozy. thank you. no $600 doc fee? ugh, the printing, the organizing. no $200 cleaning fees. microfiber, that chaps my hands. you know, we should go over there right now and show 'em how fees are done. (vo) never pay a dealer fee. with carvana.

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douthat, "new york times" opinion columnist. you say there is strong evidence that racism exists. >> a lot of what's happening that's driving controversy in schools right now is not teaching that racism exists and has consequences today. it's a much more specific sort of theory of how you basically deal with a group of writers and thinkers and educators sort of influenced by ideas in critical race theory but the constellation of ideas is separate from it, i think, who basically have a pedagogy, a way of teaching, where they're encouraging kids to sort of think about, you know, you'll have like you know the most extreme example is this woman

who has a curriculum where she will do workshops for teachers and say we need to think about all these things like the worship of the written word as like sort of features of a toxic whiteness, right? there's this kind of -- this use of whiteness as a category where you are essentially putting things like meritocracy and like a whole host of things that i think most parents assume schools are supposed to be generally in favor of, into some kind of basket of white privilege, whiteness, and then you're encouraging kids, white kids, to have sort of -- in effect cultivate a kind of sense of their own whiteness with the idea being that if you encourage that, these kids will then be able to sort of recognize their own white privilege and transcend it. and i don't think it's clear that that works. i don't think it's at all clear that sort of constructing a stronger sense of racial identity in order to make people a sense of their own privilege

and guilt is an effective way of doing this. but that's a lot of where the controversy is, these programs that aren't teaching the history of racism or even teaching about contemporary effects of racism. they're specifically saying, you know, white kids especially need to think of themselves in these categories and in these ways. and that's i think a big part of what people are reacting against. >> listen, i don't know if that in fact is happening, but ross, we should say critical race theory is not being taught, it's not part of the curriculum for elementary or grade school students, it's being taught in law schools. >> i don't think that's right. it's not the foundational text of critical race theory that are being taught in primary schools, but curricula are being developed that do reflect ideas that come out of critical race

theory in some attenuated sense. and it's passing through figures like robin deangelo, these sort of prominent public intellectuals slash activists slash authors. so it's being popularized, moving out of the academy. there is a real set of ideas here that is different from we're teaching more about jim crow, we're teaching about the tulsa massacre. there is a distinction between teaching more about racial history and the history of segregation and these programs of how we're fighting whiteness in schools. >> and you think that critical race theory is teaching kids that whiteness is bad? because that's not part of what critical race theory is. maybe that's part of an agenda that some teachers may have. >> critical race theory, one, it's a really complicated field, right? critical race theory emphasizes the structural effects of racism that are not about individual racists, right, it's about --

>> institutions, right. >> and then there are thinkers within critical race theory who argue that in order to break these patterns, you need to force white people to reckon with the extent to which they themselves benefit from these structures so then you're back to individualizing it. and when that kind of idea is being turned into curricula for fifth graders i think it's very easy for it to go wrong. at best you could say it's a very fraught way of teaching. and you shouldn't be surprised that parents -- that one, it may be -- there may be situations where it's done well but there may be situations where it's done very badly and it wouldn't be surprising that parents would be a little bit, shall we say, puzzled by having their kids come home and say, you know, today we talked about how, you know, meritocracy is connected to white privilege and a toxic whiteness. like, you can see where people -- where the backlash would come from, i think.

>> ross, thank you so much, i appreciate you joining us. we'll have you back to talk about this. >> thanks so much, don. he feared the president would attempt a coup. now we're hearing about a conversation between mark milley and the president who talked about the wild protest coming on january 6. ahhh! ♪ don't flex your pecs. terminix.

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just like timmy here. my name's lucas. breaking news, days before the january 6th insurrection, the former president telling the chairman of the joint chiefs and the acting defense secretary the protest was going to be wild, a big deal, and they should be ready for it. in just a moment i'll speak to the "new yorker" writer who has the reporting on that. also tonight, it could be the biggest change in our country since social security,