and furry" at 10:00 p.m. eastern and pacific only here on cnn. thanks very much for watching. i'm wolf blitzer "the situation room." follow me on twitter and instagram @wolfblitzer. erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. "outfront" next a prominent doctors warning to all dire americans, the delta variant is coming for us and our kids. more counties tonight bringing back masks for the vaccinated as well. former vice president mike pence acknowledging something tonight his former boss refuses to admit, and breaking news, a federal judge delivering a devastating blow to daca tonight saying the entire program is illegal. what does this mean for dreamers? let's go "outfront". good evening, i'm erin burnett.

"outfront" tonight it's coming for us, it's a beast. a quote and a chilling warning from a doctor in louisiana, voice raising the alarm about what is now again a growing number of covid cases across the united states. the number of cases is now rising in all 50 states. look at that map of new cases compared to the prior week. you can see, right, if you're green or, you know, yellow, you know, you're sort of steady or improving. orange you're bad. red is terrible. and you see that dark red blanketing all most the entire country and it's not just cases that are up. hospitalizations are now also on the rise. one state surging is florida. the white house's covid response coordinator jeffrey saying one in five covid cases in the united states are in florida. you can see the spike there from a month ago. tonight, the state's governor ron desantis is taking a different tax selling campaign merchandise hocmocking dr. fauc

selling hats and shirts that say don't fauci my florida. telling cruise lines they cannot mandate passengers show proof of vaccination status. by the way, the companies don't like that. norwegian is suing florida because they want to know if you're vaccinated. the nation's rise in cases is as the war of masks is heating up again. we're hours away, you may remember, from the indoor mask mandate returning and not just there. health officials in the san francisco bay area today followed suit, that means another 7 million people there will be told to mask up, whether vaccinated or not. and in nevada in the most pop l -- populace county, las vegas recommending vaccinated and unvaccinated people wear masks indoors. the u.s. is heading in the right direction and an infectious disease expert in louisiana sounding the alarm.

>> it's coming for us. it's a beast. that's what we're seeing in the hospital. that's why we're nervous. that's why i'm here to talk to you today. it's different. we're going to get vaccinated or end the pandemic, or we're going to accept death. a lot of it. >> i will talk to dr. kathrine o'neil in a moment but first, i want to go to stephaahnie elam los angeles where i mentioned the mask mandate will go into effect in a few hours for the vaccinated and unvaccinated, and it's amazing officials are saying much more remains on the table, as well. >> reporter: that's right, erin. what needs to happen are there are a lot of people that got one dose and need to finish the second dose and just looking statewide, you can see this number is going in the wrong direction. you see seven bay area counties now recommending people wear masks if they're in indoor public spaces, stores, restaurants, movie theaters and

the like and combine that with sacramento county and similar recommendations, you're looking at nearly half of the 40 million people that live in this state now looking at wearing hmasks oe again. this is happening almost to the day, one month after california opened back up and you can see just by looking at the data what needs to be done here. throughout the state 51% of the state is fully vaccinated, which is great but it is not enough and so you can see in these pockets where you see this rise and if you look just to nevada, as well, like you were talking about what is happening there in southern nevada, they're also recommending, it's not a mandate like here in l.a. county that they wear the masks in indoor public places, casinos, restaurants, bars wherever except for when you're actually eating. that is a big concern because the numbers are tripling so fast in that one area. >> thank you very much.

sobering. i want to go to the doctor there you heard with the powerful warning, chief medical officer of our lady of the lake in louisiana and dr. peter hotez will join me. c co-director at texas children's hospital. let me begin with you. a lot of reaction to your warnings about the virus. you know, you said delta is a beast, that it is not last year's virus. why? what are you seeing? >> it's different for a couple different reasons and i think the biggest thing that we're trying to get across to the people in louisiana is we took a lot of preconceived notions from last year. my neighbor was 40 and did okay when he got the virus last year so i'll be fine because i look and feel like him, right? that's not the same thing because this year's virus is not last year's virus. it attacking our 40-year-olds. it's attacking our parents and young grandparents and kids. so understanding how different this is and that we can't take

our experience from last year and apply it to today and assume we'll be okay is the biggest fight right now. >> so several questions ochoen t -- on that front and you mentioned age, right? it seems to be striking younger people, as well. more effectively than the original covid. we have, of ybviously, heard th from others. i von a mother of three young children too young to be vaccinated. you said delta variant is coming for our children. you're the mother of three. two teenage girls and a boy under 12 unvaccinated and i know you've changed your behavior because of what you're seeing and your real concerns. tell me. >> right. so a month ago we felt pretty good about our kids going to play with other people, going to camps. we were having a great good summer, but as the surge begins and as you start to see that community activity and suddenly like gasoline on a fire and everybody has covid again like they did before, we're starting

to dial back on the number of things we do, definitely doing them outdoors again and my son stayed masked in public places because he needs to because he's not vaccinated so following the rules we've been following but starting to pair down our big crowd activity to outside because that's what the safest thi thing is. >> people really care about this unvaccinated people obviously are at incredible risk but vaccinated is a real question, right? masks now being brought back for vaccinated people. we're seeing more and more what they're still calling quote unquote breakthrough infections. you're talking about younger people getting this. you say it's my friends and my peers, i'm quoting your tweet dr. o'neil. my kids go to school, their friends and they are starting college in three weeks and they're not going to be alive. that is what delta variant is. it's coming for us. it's a beast. tell me what you're seeing as a doctor on the ground that is making, you know, you say things

that look, anyone that hears that, they're concerned. >> right. and i think they should be concerned, erin. i start every one of my days with looking at our list of admissions from the night before. i go through the age and comorbidities and as i run that list quickly, what strikes me the most are 50% of them are just like me. parents, have young kids orchids of college age in their 40s and 50s. i have more people in our covid units now than i've ever seen who i would have considered totally healthy, and that's just a striking difference from last year where we talked about i have a 40-year-old, i've seen a 23-year-old who gets sick, now half the unit is that age. we're also seeing and it's just incredibly unfortunate is we're seeing a lot of death in that age group, and that's not something we saw before. we saw those people have long haul covid and see them take weeks to get better but to go through that with our peers and

not tell that story to them and say hey, it you this time. it's coming for you. and you thought this was last year's virus, it's not. it's this year's virus and you have to get vaccinated. that's the only way to end it. masks and mitigation won't take it. it will be vaccination. >> so let me ask you one more question on that front. i know that there's a lot that we don't fully know about how effective the vaccine will be over time. pfizer wanting to do boosters and if not, the head of rnd development called it a terrible disaster and cdc and fda not there yet. but in terms of the vaccinated, you know, mississippi's state health direct toror said 7% are fully vaccinated. we don't is a ton of numbers here. what are you seeing there? >> the vast majority of our hospitalized patients are unvaccinated, absolutely. the people we see with breakthrough cases are having very mild symptoms and the

reason they got tested with their sniffling those is they were contact traced. when i look at the charts and see those patients, these were people we know don't respond to the vaccine well. they're elderly, they're sick, they receive chemotherapy. that's a group of people the community needs to protect. they were never going to keep the vaccine immunity up for a long time. they're vulnerable. we protect them by getting vaccinated, too. >> thank you very much. i want to ask dr. hotez here in this conversation some questions. i mean, i want to give you a chance to respond to what dr. o'neil is saying. she's raising a serious alarm about this and specifical ally children and younger people, 40s and 50s and specifically children. what is your reaction to that, what she's seeing? >> yeah, so i break it down like this, erin and i think, you know, she makes a lot of important points. first of all, it depends where

you are. up in the northeast where you're doing such a good job in terms of vaccinating just about all of the adults and adolescents, transmission is probably not going to pick up. there isn't that same level of scariness and urgency. it may get there but i have some optimism but in louisiana, which is second to the bottom in vaccinating fewer than 15, 16% of the adolescents are vaccinated, very few young adults are vaccinated, that's a disaster waiting to happen that combination with the delta variant. what you're seeing is a steep now acceleration what we call force of infection and that's what is landing so many unvaccinated people in the hospital, and that's what we're going to see across the south this summer and unfortunately, it was predicted and pred predictable. similar to last summer with one important difference. we're doing a little bit better with older individuals, even in louisiana where higher percentage are vaccinated but

basically naive young adults and adolescents and so we're going to see a lot of illness and long haul covid and unfortunately, serious hospitalizations. >> it raises the question you'll start to hit a point, whatever point, the fda and pfizer can agree that boosters are needed then you have another set of risks entering into this. let me ask about the bay area counties in california that are joining l.a. county to recommend masks regardless of vaccination status and i should be clear in l.a. it is a mask mandate that is returning, not just a request or recommendation. and las vegas, they're recommending that people start wearing them again regardless of vaccination status. do you think it's only a matter of time before we see this across the country again? >> yeah, it might be and again, it will depend on level of transmission and this is the problem with the cdc guidelines. it uses a one size fits all recommendation and that's hard to do. so you've got a lot of

transmission then yes, i think you need to wear a mask even if you're indoors and thank you ve. appreciate your time. >> thank you. next, the biden administration tonight giving credence to the theory that covid first leaked from a lab in wuhan, china. now finding that theory just as credible as the natural origins explanation. mike pence splits with trump on the deadly insurrection. >> the truth is, we've been through a lot in the last year. a tragic day in our nation's capitol. new york prosecutors stepping up the pressure on another top trump executive. who is it and will that person flip on trump? >> announcer: erin burnett "outfront" brought to you by salon pause. it's good medicine. prescribed as contains t topical pain relief ingredient. it's clinically proven, reduces inflammation

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>> reporter: it is a shift from last year when the lab leak theory was considered pretty out land d -- outlandish and a conspiracy theory and donald trump was weaponizing it and making it political. senior biden administration officials are taking this possibility very seriously. biden ordered review of the origins of the pandemic back in march. the intelligence community came back with the findings and in may he redoubled effort into the probe into covid origins because the covid community was split. that led biden administration to officials to say this lab leak theory is as plausible, as credible as the idea that it originated naturally in the wild. so what we're learning now is that the tone towards beijing among biden administration officials is hardening and has been over the last several

weeks. they are warning china there will be consequences many they don't participate in a world health organization probe that allows them access to their data and their labs. so we are seeing kind of a stepped up effort here by the biden administration to take this possibility seriously, but obviously, we are cautioned that we may never know the final answer here. >> right. and certainly we may not and i know obviously they know there is a large body of circumstantial evidence that leads to the lab and appears to be growing. but this is a crucial question and natasha, let me ask you, a lab leak theory is not the same thing as an engineered virus that was intended to be used as a weapon to make that very clear, right? a leaked theory could have been an innocent leak but a leak nonetheless that came from the wuhan lab. >> totally right. and this is a really key distinction. it not that the intelligence community and biden administration officials believe this was deliberately engineered as a bio weapon by the chinese and unleashed into the world

deliberately or accidently. what they believe could have happened is this lab conducting this research on bats that people somehow became infected with it, that it escaped from the lab but over the course of kind of normal biological research. so right now, what we're hearing is that biological weapon theory has been debunked by the intel community and doesn't have credence among senior officials but the possibility again that it might have originated naturally but again, within a lab is being taken more seriously. >> thank you very much. and i think it is important for you to have a chance to make that distinction. i want to bring in a micro biologist at stanford university. hee eadvocated since last year e lab leak theory should be taken seriously. you've been leading on this. what do you make of the biden administration, obviously, the evidence is growing and we understand that to be the case, but there are now, you know, seems to be admitting that the lab leak theory is as credible as the theory it developed

naturally, that even in and of itself appears to be a bit diplomatic but what do you make of their shift? >> i think from the start it was clear there was credible evidence, circumstantial evidence in favor of either and both hypothesis and what i sense now is finally we're able to shed some of the political baggage and that calmer minds are prevailing and what they're doing is simply looking d dispassionately at the skpefd say what does it tell us? let's base this on facts. >> here is the question, though. are we ever going to know -- i understand in the court of public opinion in a sense china has been convicted. that's pretty clear. but and that may be what ultimately matters, but in the court of actually scientifically knowing and be able to hold it up in front of them and say are you kidding me? you covered this up. you lied. that's a big difference. do you think we'll ever be able to do that, that we'll ever have

enough facts to definitively say that? >> i'm not sure we will. history tells us that very often definitive answers are not easy to come by, but i think it's really important to point out that just because a definitive answer is not available doesn't mean that we won't gain really important new information and that we may learn a lot that helps us in understanding how best to address this problem going forward. >> i will just say one other thing usually when you look throughout history, i was talking to one expert recently an immunologist with expertise saying the country from which a contagious virus comes is usually the country hardest hit, both economically and in terms of morbidity and mortality. that's the opposite. we don't know the morbidity and mortality but economic

perfo performance, it's been the opp opposite. what does that say to you? >> i think we have to be cautious. first of all, a lot -- there was a lot of suffering in china. they had, you know, the earliest take on what it might require to contain this thing, and, you know, it's hard to say whether this favors anybody in the end. there was a lot of suffering to go around. that's for sure. and i think what we have to do now is try to look at this in a cold, hard dispassionate way and simply say, what does the science tell us here and what can relearn from further acquisition of facts as best we can know them? >> dor. roman, appreciate your time. thank you. >> you're most welcome. "outfront" next mike pence praising his former boss but speaking the truth about january

6th and tieghtening the grip ona top executive, one who form early said he would kill for trump.

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tonight former president mike pence playing both sides sayining he couldn't be more prd to serve alongside trump but saying what trump refuses to admit. >> the truth is, we've been through a lot in the last year. i mean, the global pandemic, civil unrest, a decisive election, a tragic day in our nation's capitol. >> tragic day in our nation's c capitol. of course, pence was at the capitol to provide over the certification of joe biden's win and trump told pence pence could overturn the rules. "i alone can fix it "trump called pence on january 6th and told him i quote you don't have the courage to make a hard decision. hours later, rioters stormed the

capitol. >> hang mike pence! hang mike pence! >> bring out pence! >> bring out pence! >> bring him out! >> pence had to be taken to safety and today, trump still doesn't acknowledge his role in the veevents of january 6th and continues to perpetuate the big lie, led to five americans dying there. today, 25 five days after the t free and fair election, trump putting out statements including the governor allowed this election in georgia to be rigged and stolen and quote, had the election not been rigged and stolen i would have won easily, that's what he's saying today. christian holms is "out front "livey pence spoke today.

the lul tenant full of praise and going against trump's view on the vents of january 6th. >> that's right, erin. pence is really walking a tight rope here. this is a man that wants to stay politically relevant and stay in the arena. there is already speculation he'll run for president in 2024 but sees what we see, despite january 6th. despite this increased rhetoric against the election, against our democracy, the republican party is still very much a party of donald trump. we see candidate afriter candide going to mar-a-lago and seeking endorsement or approval and that's not lost on the vice president. one thing that was clear here today is that pence is trying to form a political identity outside of the shadow of donald trump. he talked about how he was proud to serve in the administration all the accomplishments of the administration but light on praise for the man himself. obviously, it's a little

different than pence in the past but to make clear, no matter how vague pence is about january 6th, he talks about it and touches on it and said at one point he and donald trump might never see eye to eye on that day but didn't elaborate on it. he's going to have to e ventualy answer for it. there are still people very, very angry at mike pence and when we does answer for it, it is going to have to determine whether or not he stands with trump or fully separates himself. >> all right. thank you very much. i want to go now to democratic congressman stephanie murphy, a member of the january 6th select committee and sits on the house of arms committee. thanks very much for your time, congresswoman. today the former vice president pence praised trump but acknowledged the tragedy of january 6th. his role on january 6th was rouge, right? trump said to him before and after. do you want to call mike pence as a witness before the

committee? >> instead of getting ahead of the committee and who we're going to call, i'll say i know our committee will call whoever we need to to get the full set of facts on what happened on january 6th and obviously, vice president pence was there on january 6th as well as his staff members. but, you know, there has been a lot of focus on the prominent elected that were involved in either the runup to this event or what happened on the day of the event but i want to know more about the average american. that schoolteacher, the father son from a law enforcement family, the wealthy jet setting woman who joined the organized extremist groups in an act of political violence to change the outcome of an election. you know, i think we're a country where we're going to have close and hard fought elections but we have to be a country that is willing to accept the results and we have to understand these trends, not

only at the highest levels but also the folks who showed up that day to prevent us from certifying the election. >> so in terms of the committee itself, right, you're half there right now? republican leader mccarthy has not announced who he plans to commit to the committee. he met with former president trump and a source claims they didn't discuss the committee. do you have any concern about trump putting his fingers on the scale here, whether he'll be involved in picking or proving in any way the republican members? >> let's say i am hopeful, maybe naively hopeful that minority leader mccarthy will pick patriots over politicians. he needs to put people on this committee who are willing to have a political approach to what happened on january 6th

because beyond, you know, what this particular president said or did, we have to understand how our bureaucracy responded to an attempt at dismantling our democracy. our bureaucracy is made up of career burro cats and civil sr. v -- servants and political appointees. how did that interaction happen when the political amoppointiee were given a different direction? i think for me, it's incredibly important that we understand how resilient our institutions are so we can fend off attempts at developing an autotoc si. my family and i escaped one. >> thank you very much. appreciate your time tonight. >> good to be with you. another top trump organization executive being

pressured to cooperate with new york prosecutors but is it enough to get him to turn on trump? >> plus, breaking news a federal judge ruling daca is illegal. illegal. what does this mean for the hundreds of thousands of daca recipients from now? [man] uh, mine. why? it's just that it's... lavender, yes it is. old spice, it's for men. but i like the smell of it. [music playing] i'm morgan, and there's more to me than hiv.

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breaking news, new york prosecutors upping the pressure on another trump organization executive to cooperate in the criminal probe where cfo allen weisselberg is indicted, that's matthew calamari for receiving tax free fringe benefits. he rose from being donald trump's security to chief operating officer out company. you get there with trump by being loyal. according to the 1993 trump biography "lost tycoon" trump reportedly one asked calamari from the back of a limo, you'd do anything for me? he said of course. would you kill more me?

calamari's response. yes, sir. how involved are these efforts to get calamari to turn on trump? >> really, erin, this is pressure prosecutors have been putting on him since before the indictment we saw with allen weisselberg two weeks ago and prosecutors are still talking to calamari's legal team because allen weisselberg has refused to flip and we don't know of anyone else in the trump organization that's cooperating and prosecutors want to convehicle e -- convince calamari to turn. he would never let anything happen to his long-time boss. ca calamari and his son are being investigated whether they properly paid taxes on the subsidized rent and cars and prosecutors believe they could get the calamari's to give them information and let them know

about the scheme, whether the trump org miss led lenders and organizations about the value of properties and trump's former fixer michael cohen that served time in prison told congress in 2018 that matthew calamari was one of three people in the company who is aware of what was going on. prol prosecutors continue to press him. his team is saying calamari has no knowledge on the workings since he was the chief financial officer. >> erin. >> the chief operating officer should have knowledge of the financial operations of the company. thank you very much, jessica. incredible statement they are trying to say that. "outfront" now harry litman. you just heard jessica's reporting. why do you think prosecutors are focussing on getting matthew calamari to cooperate? it would seem to indicate they

aren't getting anymore with weisselberg, right? >> maybe. look. you know, it's become a cliche to say he knows where all the bodies are buried. calamari is not that guy. >> he may literally actually be that guy. >> right. yeah. he's a big bouncer for trump. so why are they going after him and as your reporter said, it's been awhile now. one thing he was, he's around all the time. he's a trusted guy in the limousine and so my best guess is cohen or jennifer weisselberg testified about a certain statement, something small and specific that they could get calamari was present for and they could get him to turn. he's not a master hinmind but me really has key core piece of evidence probably about trump's intent that he could corroborate

and the pressure as you've noted, erin, it's the same thing. he's getting the apartment. he's getting the mercedes, as is his son. there might be the same kind of shenanigans with taxes. wouldn't be a surprise. he's a trumpy through and through. >> trump spoke glowingly about him think big and kick ass in business and life. >> yeah. >> trump quote when i hired matthew calamari 20 years ago it became clear he had more to offer than his job title warranted and he is the chief operating officer of trump properties and a dedicated and trustworthy worker and not been given challenges, this side of him would not have been apparent. is this a sign of strength or weakness? i make the point a chief operating officer should know things about the financial running of an organization, that's how any responsibly run organization, absurd to say he'd

know nothing. i don't know how the trump organization was run, who knows. do you see this as a sign of strength or weakness on the sign of prosecutors? >> not quite either. look, this guy is not a financial guy. what trump is really saying is he will kill for me. that is what gets you to be chief operating officer. so in that sense, they're going after him just means they're leaving no stone unturned. he's a snippet of evidence probably about trump's intent. which is the number one thing they need, but he's nothing like weisselberg for being able to show intent as to the financial crimes. you know, if trump killed someone, he might have helped hide the body but he's not the financial mastermind weisselberg is and that's what the d.a. charged him with, charged weisselberg -- >> yeah. appreciate it, harry. good to talk to you. >> you, too, erin, thank you. next, breaking news a federal judge ordering an end to daca calling it illegal.

what does this mean? does this change the entire spectrum for daca recipients and president biden accusing facebook and others of killing people by allowing false information. >> the only pandemic we have is among the unvaccinated and they're killing people.

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buying a car an unforgettable experience. happy birthday. thank you. we treat every customer like we would treat our own moms. because that's what they deserve. breaking news a federal judge saying data for child hood arrivals is illegal. the ruling block's applicants for the program that protects some undocumented immigrants from deportation. evan perez is "outfront". when you hear the headline, this is done, this is illegal, i mean, you sort of go wow, this sounds extremely significant. tell me what it means. >> well, it means that for now, the government cannot accept any new applicants and new people into this program, so-called dreamers that are already part of this program.

hundreds of thousands of so-called dreamers can remain and that's one of the things the judge said that he said that essentially this is a program that is ingendered a lot of especially good, right, for these dreamers for employers who employ them and so he of the people who were participating for it not to be ended, so suddenly. but he said, in -- in those -- in simple terms, he said that this is a program that was illegal, that congress never allowed the -- the administration -- the obama administration, to create it. so now, what this means, erin, is that this is the latest twist for these dreamers, who have seen this program go back and forth. trump administration tried to end it. supreme court did not allow that. so we may, yet, see some more court battles. >> that's the question. can it be appealed? this is six nif can't for a lot

of people, in terms of its impact. so how does it play out? >> we have not heard from the justice department. we asked and they have not said but you can bet they will -- they will likely do this. and this will go back, again, to the supreme court. but in the meantime, you know, the -- the -- the real answer is that congress needs to pass some kind of legislation to resolve this, once and for all. because again, there is hundreds of thousands of people who rely on this program. and who have been going back and forth with each one of these court rulings. >> all right, everyone, thank you very much. appreciate it. next, facebook just responding after president biden accused facebook of killing people with misinformation.

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i get that too and mine has 5g included. impressive. impressive is saving four hundred bucks a year. four bucks? that's tough to beat. relax people, my wireless is crushing it. okay, that's because you all have xfinity mobile. it's wireless so good, it keeps one upping itself. breaking news. president biden versus facebook. the tech giant just now releasing a statement saying it quote will not be distracted by accusations which aren't supported by facts after biden delivered this sharp criticism about the dire consequences of covid misinformation on facebook. >> they're killing people. the only pandemic we have is among the unvaccinated.

and that -- and they're killing people. >> well, republican lawmakers are pushing back on the white house. urging social-media companies to combat misinformation. calling it a big-government attempt to sensor free speech. house minority leader kevin mccarthy saying the white house and tech companies want to quote control you and republican senator ron johnson tweeting quote, big government is now big brother. our friend now, mike shields, strategist for leader mccarthy and also former rnc chief of staff. and, mike, i really appreciate your time. so, you know, a source telling cnn after facebook was unwilling to crack down on vaccine information, biden officials decided the tech giant was either quote not taking this very seriously or hiding something. and now, obviously, facebook pushing back, very strongly, tonight, on biden's comments. what do you make of the white house's push, against facebook? >> you know, i think it's dangerous. i think the government getting involved with censorship. we already have tech censorship,

as it is. i mean, your reporting earlier about the biden administration now saying the lab-leak theory, for instance, is something they are taking seriously. posts were taken down by social media because they said this is misinformation so having the tech industry decide what is information and what isn't is, already, dangerous. and then, having the government come in and say you are not doing enough, we are going to get involved with censoring people is even more dangerous and that's when conservatives are worried about. >> so the press secretary jen psaki says there is 12 people who account for 65% of the information on facebook. which, of course, is dangerous. right? that's true. it's dangerous stuff. but we can all agree the misinformation should not be happening. okay. so how do you deal with the problem, mike? and i know, you may not accept her numbers. but if you are able to identify some of the key places it's coming from, but you're not comfortable telling facebook to stop those sources. what do you do? >> well, first of all, i'm vaccinated. the vaccines are safe. i -- the first thing you do is

you communicate with people. and you try to win them. i mean, go to facebook, spend some of the trillions of dollars the government is proposing right now in spending. go to facebook and advertise to these anti-vaxer people and win their hearts and minds. what is happening is the message isn't getting through and so they saidl let's just shut down the thought. and that is really dangerous. i think anyone in the media who respects the first amendment should find that very dangerous because what if there is an administration in the future that says you and i can't talk about this? that's a dangerous thing to do. of course, we should get vaccinated. i'm clear about that. republicans are clear about that but shutting down someone who says you shouldn't and controlling their speech is, i think, un-american and something very dangerous for the government to take part in. >> you are vaccinated. there are plenty of those in your party who -- who have not, right? and that is part of the problem. not saying it's all of it. >> both parties, erin. i mean, look. l.a. county just reinstated a mask mandate.

that's not a place teeming with republicans. but let's address the problem. >> but democrats aren't out there saying don't get vaccinated, don't knock on my door, don't tell me what to do, don't get vaccinated like some elected republicans are. that's all i am saying. if all republican leaders said what you said, we would be having a different conversation. >> look. i think you have to win hearts and minds and go out and compete for ideas and use the freedom that we have in this country to go and communicate to people the values of something. don't shut them down. and certainly, don't have the government be in the place of censoring people. we have already had enough censorship. we should be going the other direction. we should be regulating the tech industry by saying stop censoring people, especially when it's unfair and the conservatives are getting censored more -- more than people on the heft. open up the speech and let the american people decide. >> so what's interesting here is that, you know, you have a biden administration wanting facebook to do more on this particular issue. overall, as you point out, republicans are extremely angry at big tech but for a different reason. here is just a few of them. >> these are the most powerful

corporations in history. and here they are, coordinating about how they are going to stop us from speaking. coordinating about who they're going to ban. >> i think they collectively pose the single-greatest threat we have to free speech in this country. >> this is a defining moment in american democracy. if we do not push back against google and twitter, we will lose our democratic ability to talk to each other. >> all right. so that -- that's from the right and you have biden today saying facebook is killing people. i mean, i get the reasons are different. but this is a lot of -- a lot of vitriol for big tech, from the left and the right. why? why can there not be common ground here? >> you know, it's a shame. there should be. i think there's -- there's elements in both the right and the left that think that big tech has too much power and they are abusing that power. what they want to do about it is different. as usual, conservatives want more freedom. and people on the left want more government. and so, what you are seeing from biden is yes, they are abusing their power. the government should step in and start doing more of what they are doing and people on the

right say, no, you should be fair. and i think one of the other things we have to do is have everyone earn more trust. people in the media, tech, everywhere. earn more trust of people so when you talk to them about vaccines, they believe you. >> all right. well, mike, i really appreciate your time. thank you. thank you zmchlt. thanks so much to all of you for joining us. ac 360 starts now. good evening. a federal judge just ruled that the daca program is illegal, which means the future of hundreds of thousands of immigrants who were brought here as children may, now, be in doubt. we'll look at the decision, and the enormous implications tonight. we begin, however, with the return of covid and the tragic fact that, right now, in this country, virtually none of the illness, isolation, suffering, and dying should be happening at all. period. >> there is a clear message that is coming through. this is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated. >> unvaccinated americans are not protected against serious illness. hospitalization and death.