service is wonderful. and because things are so -- [ applause ] -- and because things are -- are so crazy out there, um, it is very hard to get comfortable, like i would ordinarily be. for example, i think all of the -- all -- all the help that's there providing meals and all the rest. i think they love us. say, don't come in for breakfast. we can get our own breakfast because i like to walk out in my robe and go in. no, no, i'm not -- you think i'm joking. i -- i -- i'm not. you know what i mean? and so, it's just a -- you know, the only place i have felt like

what the office is when i went to europe and watched the rest of the heads of state react to me. not me because i'm the president of the united states of america. the united states of america. and here's what happened. it's the first time i ever felt like you always hears them say leader of the free world. well, i realized when i am sitting across from putin right now, he knows who i am. i know who he is. he knows i mean what i say, and can do what i say. he understands. doesn't mean he will do it or not do it. but the point is it's the first time i've ever felt the notion that i am in the office that is the leader of the free world. and we must be the leader of the free world. if we don't do it, nobody good is likely to do it or has the capacity to do it. i really mean it. i genuinely mean it. so, it's the thing, don, that is the only time. and by the way, the first time i walked downstairs and they

played "hail to the chief," i wonder, where is he? you think i'm kidding. i'm not kidding. you know? i mean -- >> it's a get reat tune, isn't ? >> it's a great tune. but you feel a little self-conscious. you think i'm kidding, i'm not. but i am -- i am not, at all, self-conscious about the power that goes with the office, as relates to resolving issues. these are issues that i have dealt with my whole life. whether i'm good or bad, i have more experience, coming into the office, than anyone who's ever held that office. i have done -- i've -- i've been deeply steeped in foreign policy, the justice system. not that i'm right. i don't mean that. but nothing's come before me where i've gone, oh, my god, i never thought. you know, what the difference is, i used to kid barack. he's a good friend. president obama. and um, you know, at one point, i'd always -- i was always the last guy in the room, for real.

in every, important decision, i got to give my advice. i gave it all the way. but i'd be the last guy before i walked out. and one day, he thanked me. i said, mr. president, here's the deal. i should be paying you, not you me because i get to give you the advice. and then, i get to leave. no, i'm serious. think about it. the one thing that is real, that is different, i don't -- and i feel comfortable with it. but it is you're the last guy in the room. >> yeah. >> you decide. is the decision i am about to make. will that cause war? will that cause conflict? the decision i am about to make, is it going to hurt people? is it going to help people? that's the part that is different. but the living conditions. i mean, it's such a great, great honor to live in the white house. quite frankly, i kid the vice president. like, one day, barack came over to naval operations.

the vice president's residence, which is on about, i guess, 80-90 acres. and it's a beautiful, beautiful spot. and there's a fence around the whole property. >> i bet you miss that, don't you? >> i do. and barack came over and he said this is great. and i said, tell ya, only if the power goes with it. but the point is that, there, it was totally different. you can walk out in your shorts with a short-sleeved shirt on, and you can walk around and there wasn't anybody there. you can't walk out, anywhere, now. um, but i'm not complaining. i'm trying to answer your question, as honestly as i can. >> yeah. >> i -- i just -- um, it's the greatest honor, i think, could ever be bestowed on an american. that a majority of the american citizens said, i want you to lead the country. and it's a great honor, a great honor, when you have presidents and prime ministers and the -- the rest of the world saying, you know, what does the united

states think? you're the leader of the free world. i was able to go to the g7, and change their mind about a whole range of things. they never once had included china in any criticism of what was going on. they were very reluctant to be able to be in a position -- you and i have talked about this -- about whether or not they're going to do business with china, in a way that, you know, pushes america aside. all the sudden, if you noticed, we're getting a great deal, not because of me, but because of the administration i have put together. and america's back. traditional america is more back. and they're willing to follow us, i think. >> well, mr. president -- mr. president, here's the deal. mr. president, here is the deal. i'm the last guy that gets to ask you questions, tonight. >> uh-oh. >> yeah, and then i get to leave. thank you. >> thanks, man. >> i appreciate it. >> appreciate it. >> thank you. >> so glad that you guys are here. that you got to ask questions for the president of the united states. thank you so much. thank you to our audience, for

everyone for being here, taking questions. of course, thank you to the president of the united states. we want to thank mt. st. joseph's university, right here in cincinnati, ohio, right, for housing us. ac "360" starts right now. good night. and good evening. president biden came into tonight's "cnn town hall" with just six months in office behind him. all the same, he is pressing forward on his agenda. as someone who knows how little time he might have to get it done. it was clear, from the questions tonight, at cincinnati's mount st. joseph university, job one remains covid with the virus taking a greater and greater toll every day on the unvaccinated. the economy was also a big part of the conversation, both at the town hall and back in washington, with the president defending his infrastructure plan. but also, the goal of doing it with bipartisan support. there was more, of course, but we want to get some first reaction from our panel here starting with cnn senior political commentator, david axelrod. david, you worked with president -- with vice president biden, obviously, during the

obama administration. how do you think he did tonight? >> i think he did fine. you know, if -- if the presidency were a decathlon, this is sort of his event, right? he gets to talk to people. he gets to emote. he doesn't have to kind of color within the lines, in terms of time. but i -- i think he did fine. it, also, underscores, though, very challenging questions. i thought the most interesting thing, and you touched on it, was his insistence on his belief in the fact that republicans and democrats can, actually, get things done. he -- he ran on that. i think he fundamentally believes it. he seems confident that this infrastructure bill will happen. and even on the voting rights question, i mean, it -- i thought it was really revealing when he said i do not want to throw this congress into chaos, so we don't get anything done. i thought he was very honest about that. not going to please everybody on the left, in his own party. clearly. but -- but i think it probably

resonated with a lot of americans. >> it was -- it was interesting, though. he did say, you know, the well has been so poisoned. but clearly, does still talk about bipartisanship and believes in trying to get -- have that. >> exactly. and he is working on maybe the one issue. i don't want to sound too pessimistic. but let's be realistic. where t really achievable and -- and at his fingertips, which is infrastructure. yes, they had a failed procedural vote, today. but that kind of masks real progress that is, still, going on behind the scenes. and that's according to not just democrats but republicans who i'm talking to about this bipartisan bill. that would be a huge win, not just on the substance but on keeping the campaign process that he talked, again, about today. that you were referring to. actually, doing something -- um -- that is -- that -- that people will be able to feel. talked about the bridge that they want to fix there, in

cincinnati, in their communities. and infrastructure is one of them. voting rights. all those other things, which are, as much as he wants to get it done in a bipartisan way, they -- and historically, have been done, in a bipartisan way. very much so. right now, they -- have been poisoned in a partisan way. >> i do think, also, to your point, so notable. he called out -- he is in the state of ohio. once a swing state. we'll see if that remains true. but called out the two republicans in that state. senator rob portman and governor mike dewine. and made a very clear point that he believes that they are people of integrity. he believes that they believe that he can come to the table in a good-faith way. he says that republicans know that he -- he keeps his word. he doesn't lie to them. and that's the joe biden, in terms of the kind of atmospherics of it all. he's governing in this, sort of, moderate way, in an atmospheric

way. but then, on the flip side of that, the policy is very progressive. the policy is not, you know, moderate. this is someone who was proposing $3.5 trillion in spending in a reconciliation bill, on top of over a trillion dollars in spending on an infrastructure bill. so you have both joe bidens showing up there, saying i'm going to fight for liberal p priorities but i am going to do it in a way, where i think i can still reach across the aisle. and he is steadfast in that. it is a -- you know, very unusual, i think, balancing act that he is trying to do here. and not very many politicians can actually -- >> he makes it hard, though, for republicans to attack him for that very reason. i mean, though he is proposing all these things, he is sort of selling it in a folksy, you know, in a very joe biden kind of way. >> exactly. you know, republicans are having a hard time. you know, they actually say, pretty straightforwardly, we know you like the guy.

but just keep in mind that his policies are x, y, and z. and it's a reflection of the fact that biden comes across, in a way that, i think, is difficult to demonize. but at the same time, is pushing forward with these very aggressive policies. and doing so, as you just said, as if the clock is ticking because it very much is. >> i do want to play something that he said about bipartisanship, in response to the -- the -- the -- the infrastructure bill. let's play. >> republicans who try to paint you and your party as anti-police. >> they're lying. no, look. never once -- we have to change police conduct. we have to have rules. >> that was obviously the wrong clip. we'll talk about policing, a little bit later on. but he -- i mean, he defends himself, scott, on -- on bipartisanship. >> yeah. i mean, look. he talks like a moderate. he talks like someone that, you know, you would expect to be like a reasonable from a governing perspective. but as was said, he governs like

a progressive. i mean, he is -- he has produced a lot of progressive policies that i would expect have made a lot of people on the far left pretty happy. and maybe, surprised at how progressive he has been. i think his best traits are -- were on display tonight from a just purely-political perspective. and reminded me of why he beat donald trump last year. on the pandemic, he appears to be sincere about giving a damn about the american people. and what we've been through on this pandemic. it's what donald trump could never get right, and it's what he got right. it was on display, tonight. he was sharp on the vaccines and honest about the vaccines. it was wise for him to bring up that they've been in development for 20 years to try to negate the argument that they just got developed over a period of months. i thought that was his vstronget moment. look, i don't agree with a lot of his policies. he obviously didn't give a satis satisfactory answer to the guy who owns the restaurants about i can't find people to hire. so he clearly is i think

tripping over some of these economic issues. but where he is very difficult to beat. we saw it last time around. he's still got it. is just on this issue of, look, we may not all agree and we may have our differences. but i do, sincerely, care about what you've been through, and about what we need to do to get out of it. and it's frankly why, if you look at all these opinion polls, his highest job approval number is on handling covid. it gets worse, you go down the list. but that's -- i think that's why he is above water because of that trait right there. >> he made a little news on it, too, i thought. by saying that he thought there would be an answer from the cdc on vaccines for children, by the fall. >> yeah. >> which, i think, was probably welcome news for a lot of parents. >> that was newsworthy. and the fact that he thought kids under 12 would be wearing masks in schools, i think, was newsworthy. you know, the bright side of that is he expects the schools to be open which i think will, also, land, you know, i mean, i don't like it, frankly, that my poor kids are going to be running around with masks but at least they are going to school. because i can tell you, having four at home who needed to be in school, i was pretty unhappy the

schools were closed and i think a lot of parents were in that boat. >> yeah. >> look, i think don lemon spoke for a lot of people when he said, are you for -- are you going to protect voting rights? or the filibuster? the -- the -- the joe biden bipartisanship is probably at its best, on infrastructure. it's -- it's unbelieve -- if he can pull this off, if he can be as progressive as he is but, also, bring on republicans. that -- that is a vindication of joe biden's bipartisanship. and i think it's going to happen. but when you're talking about voting rights, you have pain and panic at the base of this party about what's going to happen if all of these attacks on voting rights stand, and go unanswered by democratic administration. and i thought don lemon was speaking for a -- for 40 million people. when he looked the president in the eye, and said are you going to protect voting rights? or you going to protect the filibuster? and i thought that the president's answer, saying i'm not -- i don't want to eliminate it but i do want talking on the filibuster. i think that is the right answer. i think that would actually

satisfy people. but how are we going to get there? you can't get away from the fact that democracy is -- is -- is under some threat here. but the other three challenges, i think, joe biden has and the democrats have. inflation. crime. and covid. those are the three, big threats. those are the marbles on the stairs, for democrats going forward. i thought, on inflation, i thought he gave a pretty decent answer. he said listen, we have got some good people saying it's temporary. i hope it's temporary. but on the crime question, it -- he went into the gun-control argument, which nobody believes they are going to get anything done about. and on the covid question i think -- i think he is relatively strong. but for me, i just don't want us to get away from the fact that there is pain and panic at the base of this party over voting. and i don't think he had great answers. >> i do want to play something he said about covid because he was actually just factually wrong and i think it's important to point -- point that out. let's -- let's hear what he said. one, last thing that's really important is, we're not in the position where we think

that any virus, including the delta virus which is much more transmissible and more deadly, in terms of non -- unvaccinated people. the -- the -- the -- the various shots that people are getting now cover that. they're -- you're okay. you're not -- you're not going to get covid, if you have these vaccinations. >> which is, obviously, just not the case. obviously, dr. leana wen is, also, joining us. dr. wen, that's something you -- you picked up on, clearly. >> right. i mean, i'm -- i was actually disappointed by president biden's speech tonight or his answers tonight because i actually thought that he was answering questions, as if it were a month ago. he's not really meeting the realities. what that's -- of what's happening on the ground. we now have triple the number of infections in the u.s., versus a month ago. we have escalation in cases, all over the country, because of the delta variant. and we actually don't know the answers to a lot of questions.

he was talking about how if you get the vaccine, you're well protected from having severe disease. that's true. but we actually don't know how well you're protected from mild illness. and whether, with the delta variant, if you're vaccinated, could you still be contagious to other people? we don't have the answer to that. >> we don't know the answer to that. because i mean, that's a crucial question. >> that's right. >> can you pass it on to your loved ones? can you pass it on to your children? >> that's right. here's what we do know. we know that the vaccine reduces your likelihood of carrying the virus, and the amount of virus that you would carry. but with the delta variant, a person infected with the delta variant carries a thousand times the amount of virus, compared to previous variants. and so, that's the problem. we don't actually know about this transmission question. and i think that president biden, actually, led people astray when he said, if you are vaccinated, you can take off your mask. we don't know that. i think he let go of a really important opportunity tonight. i think he could have said to the aud yience, you all are protected because everybody here

is vaccinated. you are safe if you are vaccinated and everybody around you is vaccinated. but if you are vaccinated and are around people who are unvaccinated, you should be keeping a mask on. getting the vaccine can save your life. but i actually think that president biden's message could have led people astray. >> hmm. >> i mean, i'll be honest. i -- i -- i think, from a t political perspective, he was as sharp on covid and on the vaccines as he was on anything because his job is to get people to get the vaccine. you know? they don't expect him walking around in a lab coat, or whatever. but they -- but his job is to express optimism about the vaccines being effective. and i -- >> the vaccine is the only answer, at this point. >> i believe it's true, that if you get the vaccine, you are highly unlikely to die. or be in the icu. which is what he said. and that's -- i mean, honestly, that is what he needs people to do. >> clearly, his goal. that was, clearly, his goal. to try and calm -- yeah, he -- >> he oversold it. >> yeah, he did oversell it but

he also has this -- you know, he wants to get people vaccinated. i think there is a real recognition as he kind of articulated. that hearing from him isn't necessarily a way to get those people who need to get vaccinated, vaccinated. they have to hear it from people they trust, who are closer to the ground. their minister, their doctors, their neighbor. and that's what they are working. but i think he had a strategy, tonight. you know, i take dr. wen's point and she's certainly right. about the -- the dangers associated with this variant. but his strategy was to go in there and try to calm the country down a little and say there is an answer. the answer's to get vaccinated. >> sorry. there was also another moment and we have the byte, which we will queue up in a second. after you say something. which was about he sort of made fun of folks on fox and elsewhere, who are now giving advice that people should go out and be vaccinated. and then, corrected himself. saying, you know what? actually, i shouldn't be making fun of this. this is good. and it certainly is. i mean, you certainly want that

message. >> yeah. that's what the white house wanted. and they are starting to get what they wanted. i -- i just will say that i was watching with another network on next to our television. and the exact opposite message was being sent, as the president was speaking on cnn giving -- giving that -- making that plea. but, you know, i'm -- i wonder what dr. wen would think of this. just anecdotally, i know we all know people who are vaccinated and feel safe who have gotten covid. >> yes. >> and haven't ended up hospitalized but have ended up pretty sick, compared to how we thought we would be when we're vaccinated. so, what i wonder, just from a public-health perspective and, frankly, a political perspective because it's about expectations, is whether you say if you, the unvaccinated, don't get your vaccines, you are going to continue to allow this virus to mutate. and for variants to be as -- as -- as infectious as they are. and it will make it impossible for all of us to be -- to be

safe. maybe, it's more nuanced than he can be but that is the reality of what's happening right now. >> yeah. let's play what he said about sort of the altar call. >> one of those other networks is not a big fan of mine. one you talk about a lot. but if you notice, as they say in -- in the southern part of my state -- they've had an altar call, some of those guys. all of the sudden, they are out there saying let's get vaccinated. let's get vaccinated. the very people who, before this, were saying, so that -- but that -- i shouldn't make fun. that's good. it's good. it's good. we just have to keep telling the truth. >> i mean, it is good. shouldn't make fun of it. and the fact that i mean, look. there's no -- there's no coincidence, here. sean hannity. i saw tommy tuberville tweeting about it today. scalise got his shot. i mean, obviously, the republican hierarchy has seen something that tells them we can't keep going down this road. i mean, at a minimum, as a political matter.

but -- but hopefully, they -- they got it as a moral and a healthcare matter. but there's no coincidence here and so the fact that they are coming onboard is a good thicng. too late? yes. good thing today? yes. >> half the country has not been fully vaccinated. >> and by the way, we are never going to get to 100% on this. we won't get to 100% on anything. 36% of people get a flu shot, which is crazy to me, too. but we have to get as many as we can and so if these republicans come onboard and these media types come onboard, that is a good thing and he ought to celebrate it. and -- and i think democrats ought not take the opportunity to make fun of it. >> in florida, you know, ron desantis was speaking up this week about the vaccination issue in his state. trying to get people to get vaccinated. but one thing that he did talk about was feeling like there's a risk here in telling people that there are not enough benefits to vaccination. saying to them, well, if you're vaccinated. >> you still have to wear your mask all the time. he -- he believes that that actually discourages people from getting vaccinated. so this is what the white house is trying to balance.

i think that, in an adideal wor, sure, they would probably like for more people, especially in high-transmission states, whether they are vaccinated or not, to wear a mask. but recognizing that, in some places in parts of the country, the places where biden's words are the least effective. that kind of message could end up backfiring at a critical time when they need people to just understand something that's pretty black and white. if you get the vaccine, you are probably not going to die or be hospitalized, as a result of this virus. >> the president was, also, asked tonight about the january 6th -- um -- committee. the back and forth between speaker pelosi and house minority leader kevin mccarthy. let's listen to that. >> you know, the republicans removed all their picks, today, for the january-6th committee. the select committee. nancy pelosi rejected two of them. the first thing i want to ask you is what's your reaction to that? but, number two, if republicans and democrats can't come together, right, to investigate the biggest attack on our capitol in 200 years, what makes

you think that they can come together on anything? >> these people. no, i mean it. i'm not being facetious. democrats and republicans. i don't care if you think i'm satan reincarnated. the fact is you can't look at that television and say nothing happened on the 6th. you can't listen to people, who say this was a peaceful march. >> kaitlan collins, our chief white house correspondent. she was in the hall tonight. kaitlan, what do you make of -- what'd you make of what you heard? >> well, it's notable because this is really the first time he has weighed on what's -- weighed in on what's happening with this commission. given all the developments we saw today where pelosi rejected two of those members that, of course, kevin mccarthy wanted to put on that panel. two of those republicans, who had voted to overturn the results of the election. he responded by withdrawing all of the republicans that he had submitted to be on that panel.

and president biden was saying essentially we have to view this from a perspective of reality. what actually happened that day. because what he was alluding to there by saying it doesn't matter what your opinion is of him. and whether or not you like his politics. you can't ignore the reality of what happened that day. it's not a two-sided argument, like some of the other topics that he addressed tonight. what his politics are. what republicans' politics are. he was saying you have to have a clear-eyed view of what actually happened on january the 6th. and as we know, some of the republicans who wanted to -- that kevin mccarthy wanted to put on that panel were ones who have denied reality. some of them, who have tried to whitewash or downplay the riot that happened on the capitol, that day. and so, he seemed to be supportive of speaker pelosi's moves. we know that our sources have told us they are very deferential to whatever it is that the house speaker wants to see on that panel. how that's, ultimately, going to look like and how that investigation is going to end up, anderson. >> we are going to take a quick break. we are going talk more about the panel, right here, with our panel, as well. we'll be right back.

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we discussed this before the break. house republican leader kevin mccarthy's decision to pull five of his members from the select committee on january 6th after house speaker pelosi vetoed two of his choices. jim banks of indiana and jim jordan of ohio. both voted in the same chamber that was barricaded against a violent member before to overturn election results. congressman mccarthy had this to say. >> house democrats must answer this question. why are you allowing a lame-duck speaker to destroy this institution? this is the people's house, not pelosi's. >> now, keeping him honest. congressman mccarthy, who accused the speaker of destroying the institution, voted to overturn election results just hours after the attack. and in the wake of it, liz cheney out of republican leadership. she is still on the republican leadership and said this about

speaker pelosi's decision. >> i agree with what the speaker has done. >> and also, mccarthy, of course, wants to become speaker, next year. do you think that he deserves to be speaker, in the aftermath of his actions here? >> i think that any person, who would be third in line to the presidency, must demonstrate a commitment to the constitution and a commitment to the rule of law. and minority leader mccarthy has not done that. >> so, let's talk about it with our team. david, was it mistake for pelosi to -- to do this? >> no, listen, i think you got to go back to the rubicon that was crossed. when there was an opportunity to create a 9/11-style commission. five republicans, five democrats. each, with the ability to veto subpoenas and so on. a real fact-finding commission. the republicans opposed it and they opposed it and was very clear and it was reported at the time because they felt like the results of it would be an embarrassment. and it would be a particular embarrassment to the former

president of the united states. and so, they couldn't countenance that, especially going into the midterm elections. so once that happened, they adopted a strategy, which is, anything they do, we're going to call partisan. and they, sort of, by putting jordan and banks on this com -- committee. guys who were january-6th deniers. they, essentially, really were baiting pelosi. and they are -- they are doing what you know they would do. saying this is going to be a partisan exercise but it would be an empty exercise if you have people on the committee who are there simply to blow the thing up and that's what those guys were there to do. >> and the speaker knew, very well, that they were doing exactly what david said. baiting her into saying, no way. those -- those two have no business being on this committee because they don't agree on the basic set of facts. that you need to agree on, to set out on a mission to find facts. >> so she is faced with the,

does she take the bait? >> exactly. >> she knows it's bait or not. >> exactly. and so, what she settled on, at the end, was that no matter what she does, politically, they are going to attack her. and they are on the committee, they are going to attack her from -- from within. if they're not, they are going to say this is just a political farce. so she did what she knew was right, which is, how can you have a committee with people on it who don't believe in the basic idea that this is even necessary? that, even what we saw, like the president said, happened before our eyes. >> yeah. >> and i think we often forget. i mean, kevin mccarthy's had so many transformations in -- in the six months or so, since january 6th. but that day, he said that donald trump was responsible for what happened on that day. and yet, he stands here with the outrage that you saw in that clip. >> which was more outrage than he actually expressed about the attack. i got to say. >> exactly. and the -- the point is i think

mccarthy is not -- he has been trying to navigate this, himself. and the objective, really, is just to try to get out of the situation. he doesn't want to talk about it. doesn't want to investigate it. he doesn't even, i don't think, really want to have jim jordan and, you know, jim banks on that committee investigating speaker pelosi. i think that he believes the best thing for republicans is just to not be there, at all. and that is, ultimately, where we are in this situation. >> i just want to play what speaker pelosi told our manu raju today. >> bipartisan quorum, we can proceed. >> what was it about jordan and banks, in particular? because nehls also voted to overturn the election. >> that was not the criterion. as i told you yesterday. >> what was the criteria? >> read my statement. >> what do you make of the calculus? >> well, look, i think she was put in a -- in a no-win situation. it's not just that they voted

against the thing. it's that they have been out there, deliberately, undermining the process before it even started. and they're going to have access to sensitive documents. i think, at the end of the day, that becomes very scary. that you are going -- you are going to have a process that needs to have some integrity. you know, there -- there are really bad and dangerous people who were involved in attacking america's government during a joint session of congress. these people are very, very dangerous. information may be shared inside that committee. and you don't want it to end up in the wrong hands. so i think she was put in a very bad situation. um, she could have rolled the dice and becomes a clown i think she had to put together a bipartisan group that could work and function. she was not allowed to do that by kevin mccarthy and she took a better road. you see it differently? >> she may not like them. she told you she doesn't like them, but they represent their districts, they're members of

good standing inside the -- >> i have a question for you, honestly. so many more republicans, though, besides those two don't you think is a little bit poking the bear, no? >> my second was going to be think about the conference politics of this. kevin mccarthy's dream is be speaker of the house. i think republicans are going to win the house. that's high view. when he gets to that point of trying to be the speaker he's going to have all corners of that conference aligned. and the idea you aren't going to put somebody from the jordan wing of the conference on a high profile deal like this, of course he was going to do it. if you think those two guys are a clown show wouldn't it have been better to let them make fools of themselves in the eyes of the american people. if that's how you feel their performance would be. to me what pelosi did is give ammunition to the republican argument that this was always partisan, all they want to do is embarrass trump and keep it in the news and keep it political,

the fact she gave ammunition to them and it was a misstep. they're going to do what they're going to do whether on the committee or not. >> we should get to the purpose of all this. there was a catastrophic event january 6th that threatened our democracy there should be an honest effort to get to the core of what happened and why. you have two people there who you know are there for the express purpose of being in opposition. not in fact-finding but to blowup the process. even if it is six democracy and one republican if it is a legitimate, orderly process, you have a chance at least of surfacing some information that is worthwhile. we should point out that kevin mccarthy made all that calculus and may have discussed it with former president trump when he sat with him few days ago as

this whole thing was coming to the fore. so i mean, you're right, he wants to be speaker of the house and that's his sinquana, that's all he's about. all of these considerations about the well-being of our democracy and what happened on january 6th, those are secondary condition -- those are secondary issues for kevin mccarthy. the question is should it be for the united states congress? is that healthy for the country? >> i diplomacy agree . >> i disagree they would derail this commission. would they have asked questions the people didn't like or brought up people don't think is germane, maybe. ultimately this commission to have public legitimacy needs to have bipartisan buy-in. you're correct they had a chance to do this, 5 and 5, they passed on that, but if what you want to happen is public legitimacy about getting to the bottom of this how can you throw off the republican leaders even if you

don't like who is nominated. >> even when she announced the thing, mccarthy said this would be a partisan exercise, it it was prebranded. it didn't matter what she did they were going to do the same thing. i a disagree, you're not giving jordan the credit he deserves, he's an anarchist in the legislative process. a lot of the republicans you hang around with would acknowledge that as well. >> i think there's a lot of republicans who believe that jordan is representative of more than just jim jordan. there's a lot of people who believe in what he does on a number of different issues. i think pelosi should have left him in. to take away the legitimacy to give kevin mccarthy the argument today, look at this, you can't trust these folks, we tried to give them republicans, wouldn't take it, i think she made a

mistake and now this commission will argued political by republicans where if you had republicans she could say i gave jim jordan his say and here's the report anyway. >> what about liz cheney. >> she doesn't count because the republicans already decided. >> if that's the barometer, marjorie taylor greene is a republican of good standing. if he had put her on the committee would have that been okay as well? >> she's a pretty junior member of the congress. >> that's one deficiency. >> he picked two people who are representative of a good chunk of the conference who were prominent during the impeachment, we participate in that why not this. i think it was pretty apparent he'd go down this road to begin

with. >> you think he discussed this with trump? >> you know my views on january 6th. it was heinous. i'm still vibratingly angry about it today. i think we ought to get to the bottom of it and pelosi ought to let it go forth. what's most important is all of violate these people go to jail for violating the sanctit yrks of the party. >> especially about what you said about january 6th what's it say about the g.o.p., somebody stands up and says i think that what happened was wrong, i think the lies being perpetuated by the then-president, and all of the people, according to the latest book, including jim jordan who is claimed to be responsible in part for january 6th, what does it say about the

party that she is not in good standing because she wants to get to the bottom of it and those like jim jordan are in good standing with the g.o.p. leadership. >> we're wrestling with this internally and flight, in the way she's gone about it, right now they're more moderate rank and file members who don't think she handled herself properly. the conference has spoken on that. >> we have to keep in mind here that kevin mccarthy decided to take his balls and go home. he could have had three members on that committee one of whom did vote to not certify the election. congressman nells and two others who didn't, he chose not to do that for a reason because there's greater political benefit for republicans in not playing ball at all. i don't necessarily buy the argument that he really wanted to have veneer of legitimacy by putting jim jordan on this committee.

i think he wanted to not participate all together. pelosi was put in a tough spot. she had no choice but to do what she did, it just so happens to be the outcome i think mccarthy thinks is most advantageous. >> thanks, everybody, second out of 360 just ahead, adam schiff will join to tem us what's next for the house select committee, the republican leadership is boycotting the investigation. he's obviously member of the democratic panel. we'll be right back. with voltaren arthritis pain gel

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