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that is certainly true. now, most of the hospitalizations and deaths of people from covid are people who have chosen not to be vaccinated. and that choice not to get vaccinated does put millions of other americans at risk. those, who can't get the vaccine because they are immunocompromised, or because they're -- they're -- their children and the vaccine hasn't been approved for kids under the age of 12, yet. so while this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated, there are millions of children who can get sick because adults won't do something to protect them. the delta variant, highly infectious. much easier to catch, if you're unvaccinated. is now the dominant strain in the country. cases have doubled, tripled, and now, nearly quadrupled over the last four weeks. listen to hhs secretary, javier becerra in las vegas with the state's positivity rate now approaching 15% and only 39% of the county encompassing las vegas fully vaccinated. >> this is not fiction. this is not some kind of disinformation campaign. this is just a fact. if you are dying today in america from covid, it's

because, essentially, you're unvaccinated. why would you want to die? >> and as we have been seeing all week, icus in nevada and arkansas and louisiana and florida are, once again, getting very busy. that's not just a problem for the unvaccinated, though. er doctors, hospital staffers are, once again, forced to deal with the stress and strain of treating people, who wouldn't be in the icu if they'd gotten a vaccine. already, this week, we've seen the stock market dip on fears the delta variant will put a chill into what was starting to look like a post-covid economy. today, we saw jobless claims rise unexpectedly. we've, also, seen temper flair as localities across the country grapple over restrictions that people, just a few weeks ago, thought were behind us. >> i'm here fighting with hundreds of other parents because we don't want our kids masked for seven hours a day. and i look around, and i see all of you sitting here without masks. seriously, what's the deal? >> that's apparent in virginia beach, virginia, at a

local-school board meeting over the question of whether kids should have to wear masks when school returns in september. this is in a state where nearly 65% of adults are fully vaccinated, which is s significantly better than the country, as a whole. the truth is, though, no matter where you live, it's clear, that a lot of people are simply confused and frustrated over how to handle this new-delta surge. emily baker hurley and her husband, both, got vaccinated but they let up on mask wearing. then, they got infected and though she is asymptomatic and he's only got minor symptoms, their two daughters are 5 years old and 9 years -- 9 months old. too young to be vaccinated and both got infected, and it hasn't been easy. >> the kids have been really, really sick. um, 103 fevers, diarrhea, and vomiting. um, it's been especially scary with a baby. >> this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. those are the people getting hospitalized and dying. but until more americans choose to take this vaccine, this miracle of medicine, this pandemic of the unvaccinated is going to continue to impact us

all. cnn's kaitlan collins at the white house for us tonight. the administration is now acknowledging the pandemic's entered a new phase, it seems. >> yeah, a troubling, new phase for them because, anderson, while they insist they are not worried about vaccinated people. you are seeing stories like that woman's just there. and also, the concern about the half of america that is not, yet, vaccinated. 50% of americans, still, have not gotten the vaccine. and you are seeing the delta variant circulate. and the cdc director is warning, it's nothing like what she's ever seen, in her two decades in public health. and i talked to another health official tonight, who said this is something they have been warning about for a month. and we are now seeing the consequences of it but they said it is spreading faster and wider than they had anticipated when it comes to this delta variant. and so, president biden held a briefing, today, with his coronavirus team. they talked about the state of the pandemic, the state of vaccinations. he was even an hour late to an event that he had in east room because of that briefing, anderson. and he, himself, is

acknowledging that they are putting 25-person team to talk about what is going on right now in this phase of the pandemic given it is not where they expected to be, six months in. several months into taking office and now, it's a new phase that they are having to deal with that looks very different than what it did on day one. >> yeah. more than half americans, not fully vaccinated. it's extraordinary that -- that that is the situation, right now. what are you learning about the discussions between the white house and health officials about possibly revising a mask mandate? >> so, this is where it come to effect people who actually did get vaccinated because we are hearing, from sources, that inside the white house and the top federal health officials, they are having conversations, maybe preliminary ones but they are talking about whether or not they need to update the mask guidance for those of us who are fully vaccinated. when you are in an indoor setting, when you're around other people who are not vaccinated. given we are seeing breakthrough cases happening to those people who are fully vaccinated. they are still investigating what the spread of that is going to look like. and so, the white house was insistent, today. they wouldn't even confirm that these conversations were happening.

though, we know that they are, from multiple sources. but they did say, right now, the guidance still stands, as it was from what the cdc said a few months ago. if you are fully vaccinated, you don't need to wear a mask but the cdc director told me she believes it's really an individual choice and if you feel you need another layer of protection, you can wear that mask. but, of course, the big question is are they actually going to change this guidance? and will people follow it if they do? >> kaitlan collins, appreciate it. want to take some time to map out exactly where we are. to do that, we are joined by two people who have guided us for the past year and a half. cnn chief medical correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta. he is in tokyo, where covid is certainly shaping up the olympic games. also, dr. leana wen. sanjay, as you wrote just last week, we got very close, tantalizingly close in the race against covid. now, i mention we find ourselves in this unsettling, confusing time. from a medical perspective, where are we in the course of the pandemic, now? >> well, it -- you know, if the -- if the country came in

for a checkup right now, anderson, i think the doctors and nurses would tell them that they are concerned. i mean, you got about a third of the country, now, that has high levels of viral transmission. we're in july. this is supposed to be the best time of the year, as far as viral transmission being low. people are primarily outside. the virus doesn't like to be outside. so, this could be as good as it gets, at least for a period of time. and yet, a third of the country can take a look at the map. viral transmission is -- is high. at the same time that the viral transmission is high, vaccination rates are low. i mean, they -- they're really, remarkably low. i just got to tell you i'm here in tokyo. we ever been talking a lot about athletes around the world and there's people who are begging for these vaccines in countries where they only have 1% of the country vaccinated. and, you know, we can't give them away, apparently, in the united states. so, those two things, in particular, i think, you know, raise the level of concern. as we go into the fall, the weather gets cooler and drier, the virus transmits more easily. that's a concern. and i just got to say, as well. you know, just -- just based on

what kaitlan was talking about and i have talked to dr. walensky, as well, about the masks. it's very interesting, to me, at this point. to -- to -- to say are we going to get ahead of this or not? have we learned the lessons from just last year? or are we going to be late on this, again? i mean, this is really concerning. and frankly, if this mask issue wasn't so politicized, i think the answer would be very clear. that, indoors, especially when you're -- even if you're vaccinated, if you are around a lot of unvaccinated people, and you're in an area where the viral transmission is high, you should probably put -- probably put a mask on. i -- i'm -- i'm not sure why this is, still, so challenging, a year and a half into this pandemic. >> obviously, sanjay, there is concern that if that message is sent to a lot of people, that some people are going to interpret it as, well, if i still have to wear a mask and i am vaccinated, what's the point of being vaccinated? >> well, i -- i -- i hear that and i, also, realize that it might be from a psyche standpoint, hard to absorb for

the country. but people need to understand that that does not mean the vaccines aren't effective. the vaccines are remarkably effective. but, you know, you got it think about this, not as a binary, like, either i'm totally protected or i'm not. i mean, the vaccines may take -- turn that into a mild illness, something that doesn't take you to the hospital. but that is something you don't want. you don't want to have a fever of 103 and sick for two weeks, even if it doesn't take you to the hospital. there are people who get vaccinated that may, still, develop symptoms. that is the thing you have got to remember here. if you are around all vaccinated people, all the time, that's great. unfortunately, 50% not even of the country is vaccinated. so when you go out and about, you are likely going to be showered with viral particles. your vaccinated body is going to do a much better job at protecting yourself but it's not perfect. i mean, nothing is. and the idea of just slipping on

two ear loops and protecting yourself like we have, again, been talking about for a year and a half it just confounds me that we're still having this conversation. and we are finding all these loopholes and excuses not to do what we should, obviously, be doing. >> dr. wen, to me, one of the arguments about -- that -- that i respond to maybe because i'm a new parent of -- of wearing a mask even though i've been vaccinated is the idea that we still don't know, if you have been vaccinated, if you -- how -- how much you can transmit a virus to your child. so in your home, your kid -- and -- and we still have this idea that kids are -- don't, you know, brush this off. that it doesn't affect kids. although, we've now seen cases with delta where -- where kids have -- have been hospitalized. so, to you, what is the argument for wearing a mask if you've been vaccinated? >> well, the biggest argument that i can see is that we just don't know, at this point, about the delta variant. and if we don't know key

questions, we should be using an abundance of caution. the cdc is still operating in the past. the data they are basing their advice on saying if you are vaccinated, you're protected. that was pre-delta. we actually don't know the data about, if you are fully vaccinated but you contract the delta variant, are you able to transmit it to others, including parents to unvaccinated children? if we don't know what that risk is, then how are parents or anyone supposed to make a decision for themselves and their families? it makes a big difference, if that risk is one in a hundred, versus one in two. i mean, we literally don't know because the cdc is not collecting those data. it's been said that the cdc is a great institution, in peacetime. but it's slow and we are now in the middle of a war and we just can't wait. and i will just say one more thing about the biden administration's message, that is really off. they keep saying, if you're vaccinated, you're protected. implying, then, it only matters to you, if you're vaccinated. it doesn't matter if other people around you are vaccinated or not. but that's just not true. as sanjay was saying, if there is all kinds of virus around

you. if you are in a community with a lot of virus, then because these vaccines are not 100%, it is going to impact you. so, i mean, as to whether this will undermine confidence in the vaccines. think about this like a seatbelt. we wear seatbelts. we don't expect that they'll save our life every single time. if there are a ton of people driving around us recklessly, we might need more than a seatbelt. but saying that doesn't mean it's undermining confidence in seatbelts. it's just saying that the choices that other people are making influence us, too. >> dr. wen, sanjay gupta, appreciate it. thank you. next, sports anchor rich eisen talks about his breakthrough infection and why getting vaccinated is still a good idea. it's his first on-camera interview since his diagnosis and recovery. you will only see it here. also, that tape we all heard of. the former president ranting about the election he lost given the tone and the content of it, we'll ask a former friend of the first family if she thinks he's losing it. we'll be right back.

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at today's white house covid briefing, officials spent time discussing breakthrough infections in people who have already gotten the vaccine. it's certainly a hot topic. question is, though, is it a growing problem? here's what dr. anthony fauci had to say. >> infections, after vaccination, are expected. no vaccine is 100% effective. however, even if a vaccine does not completely protect against infection, it -- usually, if it's successful, protects against serious disease. >> which brings us to the nfl network's rich eisen. he was vaccinated. then, came down with a case of covid recently. here is part of what he posted on social media last week. quote, as someone sitting day four in quarantine, fighting off symptoms, i can personally attest, you still need to be careful and most importantly, get vaccinated. why? especially, since mine didn't keep covid from my body. so there aren't any more variants to pierce highly effective vaccines that would ordinarily get all of us back to normal life. but if you want an answer maybe a bit more personal to you, get vaccinated so you won't go to

the hospital or die. rich eisen joins us now in his first-television interview since being infected. rich, it is good to you. first of all, how are you feeling? >> i am feeling fine, thanks. i got out of quarantine yesterday. other than just being fatigued, the symptoms that i had, which were very difficult, um, are -- they're -- they're gone. >> so, for people who say, well, i have been vaccinated. if i get -- get this thing, it's -- you know, it's not going to -- i'm not even going to notice it. what did it feel like for you? >> it started with just a tickle in my throat. and then, a small cough, the next day. i thought it was allergies, and it turned out to be covid. and after my test was confirmed with another test, it really began to hit me. but in a weird way, to be honest. with chills and body aches but no fever. um, i had -- i still have a sense of taste and smell but no appetite. it was just really weird, but

very difficult, at times, to get through. certainly, because you just never knew how it could manifest itself in a -- in a way that could go the wrong direction. >> to people who, you know, read what you said, hear your story, and say, well, why, then, get vaccinated if this thing -- if i'm still going to get sick from it? >> well, i've seen that, actually. um, in response to my post. that um, i've -- why should i get vaccinated? rich eisen got covid even when he was vaccinated. and the fact that i'm here to tell -- to talk to you, anderson, um, is a testament to my vaccine. that i'm not ventilated, right now. i'm not in a hospital. i never was. in a hospital. also, my daughter got it. nothing's more personal than your 7-year-old daughter getting it, and it's entirely possible, it's very feasible, i gave it to her. she's okay, right now. but that is harrowing, that is

as white knuckle an experience as you possibly can get. plus, the fact that i attempted to have a normal summer. my wife and i were heading on vacation out of the country, which is why i tested. um, otherwise, i would have thought maybe it's just some sort of a -- an allergy and i could have spread it around even worse. but i was trying to be normal. that's what i have been told. that we should live with it. um, and that -- that life should get back to normal. but nothing's normal about a 52-year-old who is healthy starg out a window in quarantine for ten days after his 7-year-old daughter has it, my wife and i have been so careful for a year plus. so the fact that i am here to talk to you is because i was vaccinated. and the fact that i went through it is not enough people are vaccinated because the delta variant pierced my vaccine. >> i mean, that's what i don't understand about -- about people who have chosen not to get vaccinated. is that there are millions of children, who can't be vaccinated, at this point, because there's -- we -- under

the age of 12, you can't be. maybe, that will change. but hopefully, it will change. but -- but there's millions of kids running around and there's people who are -- have the delta variant because they haven't been vaccinated. they've chosen not to get vaccinated. and they say, well, if you're vaccinated, you shouldn't be concerned about what i'm doing to my own body. but there is a lot of people who, these kids can't make a choice on it. they don't have the choice to -- to -- to make. and they are endangering kids. >> there's no question about the fact that my 7-year-old daughter, after my wife and i were extremely careful for a year plus, got it. most likely, because i got it. i have no idea how i got it. all i know is i did take a blood test because my physicians thought, let's take a look at why a 52-year-old, relatively healthy and in-shape individual got covid, despite being double vaxed with pfizer, by the way. i was fully vaccinated, as of

late february. and my antibodies that they could test, prior to my getting sick, showed that i had a full protection. this delta variant is no joke. and if people are unvaccinated, who the heck knows what the next variant might be? it could, actually, be easier for all of us, who are vaccinated, to get it. so, i -- that's why i'm urging everybody to get vaccinated. that my story should not be used in any way, shape, or form, as proof that things don't work. it does work. it did not keep me from getting infected, and the reason why is because there's too much of a part of our population and the world, as well, who are not vaccinated. that's why there's a variant that put me in quarantine for ten days. >> and why there may be other variants coming down the pike that we, still, don't know about, at this point. because not enough people are vaccinated. now, there's certainly a lot of questions about the use of masks. we have of seen in los angeles county, there's now a mask mandate for public-indoor setting. to those who say this is punishing people who have been

vaccinated. or it's an inconvenience, they shouldn't have to go through. what do you say? >> well, i am, you know, fed up, quite frankly, anderson. that the people who are vaccinated, frequently, need to take precautions. um, and accede to those who are not vaccinated. it is part of our country, where you think that there is something going on there and you should be responsible for your actions. that is true. but all that said, despite how angry i am, i am going to mask up. it's just -- i heard dr. gupta. a fellow wolverine. say in the previous segment, you are just putting two loops around your ears. it is an inconvenience. but i'm always going to wear a mask, the rest of my life, in a grocery store, indoors, on planes. it is just going to be a facet of life that is inconvenient. but if it protects me, and then -- and in so doing, protects my children, my

83-year-old mother, my -- my mother-in-law, my uncle-in-law. my -- my -- my aunt-in-law. people like that. if that's what i have to do and keep it from my children, and protect others around me, that's what i will do. >> um, i just want to change gears. ask you about announcement by the nfl, today, that any covid outbreak among unvaccinated players or staff will, automatically, forfeit that week's game as a loss. were you surprised the nfl did this? what do you think of it? >> well, i -- i -- last year, anderson, when we did not have a vaccine to help out. um, the nfl held a game on every day of the week. now, thursday, saturday, sunday, monday, are scheduled-game days throughout the year. but tuesdays and wednesdays are not. there was a friday game because it was scheduled christmas day which made it every single day of the week had an nfl game scheduled on it last year. there was a thanksgiving-night game on a partner of nbc that got pushed all the way to the

following wednesday. i proffer to say the nfl does not want to do that again, nor should they do that again if there is science that can be relied on to make things, potentially, potentially, easier and safer. and so i think the nfl has decided to make this maneuver. i will say if the game can't be rescheduled throughout the year somehow, it's not going to be automatic for on the spot. but last week, there were no cancellations and there was a very low positivity rate in the nfl of .08. so hopefully, this year, with vaccines, it can be even better. and i would just counsel all of -- of the players, who are unvaccinated right now, to consult their team doctor who will tell them, i think, what i just said. >> yeah. rich eisen, i -- i'm so glad you are doing okay. and i hope your daughter continues to do okay and the rest of your family, as well. and i appreciate you speaking out because it -- everybody

needs to -- to talk about this stuff. and the more we talk about it, hopefully, more people get vaccinated. thank you very much. >> thanks for having me on. coming up next. the former president on tape continuing to rant about how he lost the election. we will play you some of his words. the question is, is he kind of losing his grip on reality down in mar-a-lago? just rambling about this stuff over and over and over, every single day. former friend of the family weighs in.

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last night, we were fortunate to have on our broadcast, two "washington post" reporters who not only have authored a remarkable inside account of the final year of the former administration. but they brought with them exclusive excerpts of their interview with the former president for their book "i alone can fix it" donald j. trump's catastrophic final year. i want to play a portion of one of those conversations that may have bearing on the house select committee's investigation into the capitol riot. it's a portion of a much-longer conversation between the former president and "the washington post" carol leonnig and philip rucker, the authors of the book, about what he says he wanted his supporters to do on january 6th. >> what did you hope they would do, when you said go up there and stop the steal? >> i heard that people wanted to go down to -- you know, that wasn't my rally, per se. that was -- there was a lot of people that spoke. they had rallies the night before. they had speakers, all over the city. you had hundreds of thousands of people. i would venture to say -- i

think it was the largest crowd i've ever spoken before. it went from that point, which is almost at the white house, to beyond the washington monument. it was and wide. many, many, many people have told me, there was a loving crowd. and, you know, it was -- it was too bad. it was too bad that -- you know, that they did. but my statement. >> but, mr. president, i apologize. what we are trying to understand is -- is not blame, not castigate. >> no, i understand that. >> we want to understand what did you want when you said go up there? what would you have dreamed for them to do? >> that you will show -- not to go in. although they were ushered in by the police. i mean, in all fairness, the capitol police were ushering people in. the capitol police were very friendly. you know, they were hugging and

kiss -- you don't see that. but there's plenty of tape on that, too. you know, because they -- capitol police were -- that's the way it is. um, but i wanted -- i mean, personally, what i wanted is what they wanted. they showed up. um, just to show support because i happen to believe the election was rigged, at a level like nothing has ever been rigged, before. >> and the full thing goes on for about four more minutes or -- or so, in which he rambles all through the big lie. just saying things, which are just completely not true. perspective now from stephanie winston wolkoff. she is author of the book "melania and me." the rise and fall of my friendship with the first lady. also with us, john dean, former white house counsel to president nixon and cnn contributor. stephanie, you have spent quite a bit of time with -- with the former president, over the years. i wonder, just from what you heard in -- in these recordings, the continued delusions and conspiracies. i mean, does that sound like the person you knew?

>> it does, anderson. um, it sounds, very much, like donald trump. is very -- very much in denial and very convincing to his followers. this is something that happens behind closed doors. and if you weren't watching it and listening to it, you do. you believe him. i mean, that's why so many people still follow him. >> it's interesting. i mean, john, you know, last night, when we -- we first heard these recordings from -- from carol leonnig and philip rucker's interview with the former president. i mean, again, the longer one goes on and on. we played, like, five minutes of it or so last night. i mean, my immediate reaction was the first time i heard it was it reminds me of some of those tapes of nixon drunk rambling in his final days in the white house. i assume he was drunk. obviously, the former president says he doesn't drink. but it is just as rambling, and -- and lying, in a way. maybe, perhaps, that nixon wasn't even lying. as someone who was part of the administration, how does -- what

do you hear when you hear the former president? >> well, it's baffled me for a long time about trump. and i've gone between thinking the man's crazy to the man's crazy like a fox. where i really -- i've read about everything you can read about him. i've watched him as we all have, closely, for four years. where i think he is, anderson, this is just another con. and he is just not going to let up on it. he's focused on it. as stephanie said, he is very good at this. he's very convincing. he's a salesman. and this is -- this is his start for his rebid to get back in the white house. he wants power. he wants attention. this is going to draw it for him. he thinks this is his ticket. >> you know, stephanie, when i heard this, also, this tape. it just reminded me of what i had kind of imagined his life in mar-a-lago to be, which is, you know, just there all day. you know, people coming to have meetings with him, to praise him. you know, eating. he sits in the lobby. he holds these meetings, according to michael wolf, you

know, he wants to be seen holding meetings with people. he's, you know, schmoozing at dinner. people come up to the table. he is sort of kind of a maitre d at times. crashing people's weddings, making speeches. and i imagine him saying this, over and over. i mean, talking about the big lie, every single day. one of his -- i don't know if it's a genius or just a -- a pathology but is -- i mean, when he has something he wants to make everybody believe, he just repeats it so much that it exhausts you. and then, repeats it even more. >> absolutely. i mean, anderson, i, personally, witnessed, you know, and had an experience with mr. trump and melania at trump tower where he convinced me so, you know, much. and i speak about it in my book about rick gaetz that he didn't know who this person was and he was his deputy chairman. so there is this nature within him. and i think that his lies are so

convincing that he actually believes them, himself. and he's made all of his followers believe them, as well. >> john, it is rare in life that one encounters a con man, who, you know, reaches the heights that -- that -- that this man did and has. but i don't know that we, as humans, are sort of wired to -- we, i think, in general, from the research i've read. people kind of believe in other people. people want to believe the best in other people. and that's why we're susceptible to these kind of cons. he is, certainly, the master of this. >> he, indeed, is. the only parallel i can think, anderson, and i understand your reaction to hearing the tapes and the nixonian reaction, which is well placed, is the parallel with nixon never admitting that he was guilty of any crime. well, he was a sophisticated lawyer. he knew well. in fact, crimes that hadn't even surfaced while he was still alive. there were multitudes of them but he never would admit to

guilt and that's a similar lie. he just couldn't let himself go there and because he said he didn't feel like he had been -- committed a crime. trump doesn't feel like he should have lost. he watched those crowds, and thinks he should have won. so, therefore, he's going to say it was rigged because he didn't win. >> stephanie, i also think what -- what a slap in the face to capitol hill police officers. you know? dozens of whom were injured, traumatized, you know, are -- will have things that they're dealing with for -- for the rest of their lives, in some cases. for the former president to be saying well, you know, the capitol police. there was so much love in that crowd and the capitol police just let them in and they were hugging the -- the protestors. you know, as somebody who, you know, you were intimate with -- with the family. um, more so melania and not really from a political realm. you were -- you were a friend of hers and working on the inauguration. i'm wondering what you saw on january 6th.

how did you see it? >> well, i saw it as exactly as it was. i mean, this was a -- um -- you know, destruction of our democracy. and um, what happened to the police officers was, you know, it was a disgrace on everything that america stands for. and for him to say that they were open armed and loving is -- is really -- i don't want to use the word but it is sick. because it's anything but loving and -- and caring. >> and, john, you know, the other thing that really strikes me is that -- and -- and i think it was interesting because that's what carol leonnig and phi philip rucker were trying to do which is, you know, syou asked the president what did you want them to do when you said go to the capitol and i will walk with you? which, of course, he was never going to do that. though, many people thought he was. he can't answer that question because he doesn't -- he doesn't have an answer to that question. so when you hear in that tape. you know, he starts to say, you know, i wanted them to show and

then, he goes off to say they were welcomed in. police welcomed in. guess on tangents. they try to bring him back again, what do you want? and he ends up saying i wanted what they wanted. well, we know what they wanted. they wanted to hang mike pence. that's what the crowd -- many in the crowd -- were chanting. we saw what they wanted and -- and how they wanted to accomplish it by overcoming police lines and breaking into the capitol. >> anderson, if you look at that transcript of that conversation he had with leonnig and rucker, he stops just short of answering the questions. he, obviously, knows what the answer is. and blocks himself from revealing it. that's very telling, to me. i think it says a lot. >> yeah. john dean, stephanie winston wolkoff, thank you so much. really appreciate it. just ahead. the world today about the lab-leak theory and whether it would help in the investigation into the coronavirus. we will have that and where the investigation stands, when we come back. a choice that requires no explanation.

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deeply disappointed unquote in china's decision today that it will not cooperate in a second phase of the study. cnn's david culver is in shanghai with the details. so, i guess, this shouldn't be too surprising. where do things stand right now in the investigation? has china shut the door permanently to allowing international scientists back into the country? >> shut the door, anderson, probably locked it as well several times over. it's not increasingly -- it's not incredibly surprising to see them increasingly hesitant about letting anyone in here. but it is something that is disappointing for a lot of scientists because they said this is now become political manipulation, rhetoric we have heard before. they also say this goes against common sense and science. allowing this phase-two investigation. and you have to remember, the w.h.o. was here, already. they had a team on the ground. we were in wuhan, earlier this year. but think of the timing of when that team was here doing their field research. 12 months after the initial outbreak. and so, investigators that we spoke with who -- who really are deeply tied into this

initial-field mission said that's like going to a crime scene, 12 months later, after having been washed over multiple times. in fact, when we were there, initially, after the outbreak. we saw them cleaning it. they had shut it down. and so, doing any sort of field research, at that point, to yield no-positive results. and really, no substantive data. and getting access to even some of the chinese data has been increasingly difficult for these scientists, as well. so they had all been hoping, a lot of these scientists i have been speaking with, that they were going to get another chance to come back in here. that perhaps, the politics would subside a little bit. and they'd be able to have that opportunity, anderson. looking like it's not going to happen. >> yeah. i mean, unless, you know, some data has been captured, somehow. or through technological means or there is some, you know, human intelligence. somebody who was directly associated with the lab who comes forward. how can investigators really figure this out?

>> getting access is everything. and that's not going to happen, to your point. and -- and if there is somebody who has potentially been connected to that lab that would have knowledge. they're not going to have the comfort to speak out here. i mean, that's something that we have worked at, quite diligently, to try to get access to some of those individuals and what you have to remember is the individuals they had speaking at this health-official press conference were those who were head of the wuhan institute of virology. that's the institute that holds the bso 4, biosafety 4 lab which is potentially one of the origin places. and china's representation side of things. so they are the ones pushing fordfor this narrative and determined in all times ahead of the olympics and as china's celebrating 100 years of the communist party. they are not going to allow this really scientific investigation to move past politics now. >> david culver, really appreciate it. thank you, david. perspective now from jamie metzl, former national security staff member during the clinton

administration. he is currently an adviser to the world health organization. he was the lead drafter of four open letters saying china needs to be called out and to investigate the lab-leak theory. so, mr. metzl, you have been a critic from the beginning of this joint investigation where the world health organization and china have been, supposedly, working together. are you at all surprised by how this process has broken down? because it doesn't seem like china, certainly, really has a lot to gain by allowing any kind of investigation. i'm not sure why they would. >> i'm not all that surprised. but basically, this process has been compromised, from the very beginning. the agreement the world health assembly last year called for a joint study by an international committee and their chinese government counterparts. and that was what happened earlier this year. but it was really the leadership and incredible courage of dr. tedros, the w.h.o. director general, that pushed things forward that said we need a full investigation. we need transparency. we need access to the raw data. we need to audit the laboratories in wuhan. and once he and the w.h.o. came

forward calling for what needs to be done, the chinese, not surprisingly, said forget it. because it's been clear, from day one, the chinese have no interest in a full investigation into pandemic origins. and from day one, they have been doing everything possible to block that. >> and i guess, that can be read two ways. either, clearly, they are hiding something. and they caused this, you know, either accidentally or intentionally. or this is a reflexive move by an authoritarian regime, which just doesn't have the same methods and standards as -- as the international community does. we don't -- do you know which it is? >> yeah, you could say that. but -- well, i mean, i -- i really don't like that argument. oh, that's just china being china. we have -- i mean, pick your number -- maybe, 10 million people dead as a result of this totally-avoidable pandemic. it's just not acceptable that china is destroying samples, hiding records, imprisoning chinese-citizen journalists, has a gag order preventing chinese scientists from saying or

writing anything publicly about pandemic origins, without prior-government approval. it's just not acceptable. if this happened in any, other place in the world, everyone would be demanding a full investigation. everyone on earth, including everyone in china, is at risk if we don't understand how this terrible crisis began and take steps to fix our greatest vulnerabilities. >> so what happens now? i mean, last week, the head of the world health organization did acknowledge it was premature to rule out a potential link to the pandemic and a link to the chinese lab. we are nearly a year and a half into this. what -- what happens now? >> well, i have a piece, as you may know, anderson, on cnn.com that just released moments ago. with the strategy for moving forward. first, we need to fully support dr. tedros and the world health organization. but we need to be clear that china is going to block that process. we, then, need to set up an alternative mechanism for investigating, to the full extent possible, through some other mechanism that china can't

block. and whether that's the g7, the oecd, the quad countries or something else. then, the united states needs to establish our own 9 -- 9/11-style bipartisan covid commission. other countries need to do the same. and then, we need a comprehensive process if china wants to thumb its nose at the rest of the world, if china wants to disrespect the 10 million people who are dead as a result of this totally preventable pandemic and insult every one of their families, that's on them. but we shouldn't give china a veto over whether or not we investigate'll worst pandemic in a century. >> yeah. jamie metzl, i appreciate it. thank you. up next, as new covid cases in florida rise, what happened to a mother of eight there who decided not to get a covid vaccination and got infected and fought to live. her harrowing story when we come back.

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in florida the seven-day average of new covid cases is on the rise. so much so in fact that right now it's the highest in the nation. this despite the state republican governor urging people to get vaccinated.

tonight "360's" randi kaye has the story of a florida mom who decided against getting the shot and found herself in the fight for her life. >> it was horrifying. i've never in my life felt like i was going to die until that day. >> reporter: this mother of eight from lake butler, florida is opening up about how close she came to dying from covid-19. ganeene starling had chosen not to get the vaccine. her husband wasn't vaccinated either. or their children. what was it about the vaccine that concerned you, that made you not want to get it? >> just that it had not been around long. and honestly, i think i listened -- i think i -- i think i let people influence me like saying oh, you know, this is the government just trying to fill our bodies with stuff and they're trying to push this shot on us. >> reporter: but earlier this month ganeene's husband got covid. then it spread to ganeene and their four kids living at home,

including their youngest, who is just 6. soon ganeene was struggling to breathe. so they rushed her to the hospital. >> i remember being very desperate, grabbing the mask and then feeling, you know, the oxygen come in. >> reporter: ganeene spent nine days in the hospital. six of them in the icu. >> in those moments when you can't breathe like that, even with all the oxygen they were giving me, it feels like you have a ziploc bag over your head and somebody's holding it. and i mean, i had oxygen on and i was still feeling that way. >> reporter: at 43 did you ever think that you would get that sick from covid? >> mm-mm. 100%. i'd had conversations with my husband and said we've probably already had it, just didn't even know it. and honestly, he agreed that we had probably already had it.

and there have been times i've been sick and i was like oh, it's probably covid, no big deal. >> reporter: no big deal? not exactly. ganeene's oxygen had dropped to dangerously low levels. just 68%. she says she was told she had about a 20% chance of survival. >> my youngest baby is 6 years old. and so when you're told that and you have a 6-year-old, you know, like he's probably -- if i die he's not going to remember me. >> reporter: ganeene is speaking out now because she wants people to know how much she regrets not getting the vaccine, a decision that nearly cost her her life. >> i was one of those people that was like i can't believe people are just going to inject their body with this medication, we don't know enough about it. now i'm just like it is just a shot, just get the stupid shot. that vaccine could have stopped all of this. just one little shot. and i feel foolish that i didn't

get it. i wish to god i would have got it. it could have -- it's not just about what it could have prevented me from experiencing physically in my life right now but it could have saved my family so much heartache. my children from seeing me go through that. my husband. and you know, my siblings from seeing it. >> reporter: you're full of regret. >> so much regret. >> randi joins us now from jacksonville, florida. is she planning to get the vaccine now? and what about the rest of her family? >> reporter: yeah, anderson, ganeene is planning to get the vaccine as soon as she's strong enough to do so. she's also planning to get her whole family vaccinated including her 6-year-old boy who's already had covid but she wants to make sure he's vaccinated as well. in fact, anderson, she thinks that vaccines for some professions should be mandatory. for teachers included. she plans to home school her children. she doesn't want anybody near her children now that is not vaccinated. and she still -- even though she's home from the hospital,

anderson, she's still dealing with a lot of pain and discomfort. you saw she's on an oxygen machine. so she's attached to that. she's having trouble breathing still. she can't even walk to the bathroom or walk to the mail bo box without help. her 19-year-old daughter is bathingler. so certainly not out of the woods, anderson, even though she was luck why enough to survive it. >> yeah. obviously no word yet on when children under the age of 12 may be able to get vaccinated. randi kaye, appreciate it. thank you. up next, breaking news on a shooting in the nation's capital. plus more on covid concerns with the pace of vaccinations slowing and the delta variant surging. at morgan stanley, a global collective of thought leaders offers investors a broader view. ♪ we see companies protecting the bottom line by putting people first. we see a bright future, still hungry for the ingenuity of those ready for the next challenge. today, we are translating decades of experience into strategies for the road ahead.

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