the big show, "don lemon tonight," starts right now with its big star, don lemon. >> and you got breaking news. the war has changed. a document from the cdc, we had former surgeon general, dr. jerome adams. he says this freedom argument is bunk. the vaccine is necessary. >> you know how we usually -- you know, we have a light moment because i think people need that, after a long day. we usually -- we haven't had as many of those. i got it tell you, chris. i -- i have been really worried, and i am even more worried now, with all this information. you know, when i was in cincinnati last week or the week before, you know, people were asking me, why are you walking around without a mask? i'm like, well, i am about to interview the president. i want to make sure. you're fully vaccinated. i am but i am really worried

about this delta variant. we just don't know. and i think -- i think that things may be worse than we actually think. than people may be letting on. there is something that they know, that they are going to start mandating masks and possibly vaccines. # there's -- there's tons of evidence out there. there is tons of information showing that it's bad. but i think that -- i don't know if we can get this under control. and we had the opportunity to. none of this had to happen. children didn't have to start getting sick. if we didn't allow this virus to mutate and this variant to catch on, we could've had this under control. we were well on our way. and the only people that you can blame, the only blame you can blame -- this isn't shaming, this is the truth -- maybe, they should be shamed -- are the unvaccinated. the unvaccinated people have put us in the position that we're in, now. and it is not a good place. >> i mean, i think that the reason that we keep telling people stories of other unvaccinated people and the toll it's taken on them and their

families when they get sick is that it doesn't have to be you. i mean, there are a lot of people. sure, you've got that trump wing. and absolutely, we showed the numbers tonight. 37% of the unvaccinated are white republicans. um, but it doesn't have to be like that. and if it's about being hesitant, talk to your doctor, listen to the information. let's keep these dialogues going. but if it's about this idea of a perverse exercise of freedom that is really just infringing on the freedom of everybody else, it's a problem. now, here's my one -- my one beef. i want to see the data. and i don't understand why the cdc isn't putting data first. let me see the breakthrough numbers. let me see the data, that spooked these scientists into this internal appraisal. i want to see the numbers. i want to hear why fda approval hasn't happened, yet, on this. i think they have to be more out front with the messaging and the data. >> all of that is true. but you have to have people get vaccinated. you have to have leaders start

speaking the truth. you have to have leaders -- yeah, of course, i said that is true. but also, i mean, in addition to. you have got to have people start speaking the truth. you can't have them speaking out of both sides of their mouth saying, yeah, i trust the science and i am doing this. i heard you had jerome adams on and he is saying -- talking about some right-wing conservative propaganda hosts who were saying, oh, yeah, no one really said get vaccine. they said i believe in the science, and it's up to you to get it. you have to be more direct. a more concerted effort to say get vaccinated because you are not just killing yourself, you're going to kill other people. that's what you have to start telling people. you have got to start telling people, if you don't get vaccinated, you can't come into this office or this place of business. if you don't get vaccinated, you can't come to work. if you don't get vaccinated, you can't come into this gym. if you don't get vaccinated, you can't come into this -- get onto

this airplane. it has nothing to do with freedom. has nothing to do with liberty. you don't have the freedom and the liberty to put other people in jeopardy. you don't have that. you have to -- you have to drive the speed limit. you have to obey the rules. put some rules in place, that will demand that people get vaccinated. you can't just go around and say, well, look, it's my freedom and my liberty. i want to go 150 miles an hour, if i want to. sure, you can but you have to suffer the consequences for it. whether you kill yourself or you get a citation and -- or your driver's license gets taken away, you have to have certain rules in a society, if we all are going to continue to live and keep each other alive. you cannot be that selfish and, quite frankly, that ignorant. >> yeah. i just -- i think the dynamic, in terms of the politics, has to flip from this tyranny of the minority. the unvaccinated to the vaccinated. because the vaccinated, it's the majority of americans. republicans, democrats, independent, right, left, and reasonable, red and blue states. you know, every face, every

place. the majority of us have done this. who is speaking for them? >> yeah. >> what about their freedoms? >> there's -- there's only one group of people, who's out there saying this is you don't have to do it or whatever. it's your personal -- and that is -- that's conservatives. or that's trump supporters. >> that's trumpers. >> it's trumpers. that's it. you talk about, well, minorities aren't -- you don't hear -- you don't have minority leaders coming out saying do that. you don't have, you know, people from latino leaders coming out saying, oh, you shouldn't. you don't have it. you have one group, and that is the trumpers saying that. >> saying it's the illegal entrants. and now, they are saying it's the minority communities, that are really the unvaccinated. we just put up the numbers. it's just not true. >> it's not true. i got to go with our breaking news. love you, i will see you soon. >> i love you, d lemon. >> i love you, as well. this is "don lemon tonight." and as we have been saying, this is our breaking news. okay? cnn has confirmed an internal

cdc document, with a chilling warning. infections from the delta variant appear to be more severe, and spread as easily as chicken pox. are you listening, people? are you listening? are you listening? "the washington post" is reporting the variant is so contagious, that it acts almost like a different, novel virus. spreading more quickly than ebola or the common cold. are you listening? are you listening? are you listening? the document argues officials must, quote, acknowledge the war has changed. we have got a lot more to come on this, and what it means for americans, as the delta variant spreads in hot spots all across this country. i got to tell ya.

i'm from louisiana. everyone -- not everyone i love -- but all of my family members are in louisiana. they're in baton rouge. and it is crazy there. the virus is just running rampant there. i am so worried about them. i am so worried about them because they get so much information. and it's -- quite -- quite honestly, is mostly red states. that's the truth. this is not -- i'm not being partisan. this is the truth. look at the numbers. why did we have these hot spots? because some people have a very misguided and unhealthy idea of what freedom really means. >> i think it's very important that we say, unequivocally, no to lockdowns. no to school closures.

no to restrictions. and no mandates. floridians are free to choose, and all americans should be free to choose how they govern their affairs. >> first of all, no one is talking about lockdowns or -- or closing schools. but it might have to happen. if you don't get vaccinated. that's the whole point, sir. the issue at hand is vaccination, which the governor has said that he supports. that's what i mean about talking out of both sides of your mouth. i support the vaccination but you don't -- your freedom. new guidance on masks because of the breaking news, i just told you about. but he says it's about freedom. no restrictions. no mandates. so, okay. what does freedom mean? what does it mean?

what kind of freedom do people want, when they say they're not getting vaccinated because they believe in freedom? >> we're for freedom, baby. we are for freedom, all the way, and that's what we love. >> yeah, well, i should know about being for freedom. my people. you can't put on a mask? really? do we want the freedom to get sick, to be hospitalized, or worse? worse? do they want the freedom to be lying in an overcrowded hospital? struggling for every single breath? do they want that freedom, for people they love to be infected with a deadly virus? freedom not to follow the facts, even if your freedom kills people?

what kind of freedom is that? what kind of freedom do they really want? >> with freedom, comes responsibility. your decision to be unvaccinated impacts someone else. unvaccinated people spread the virus. they get sick, and fill up our hospitals. and that means if someone else has a heart attack or breaks a hip, there may not be a hospital bed for them. >> freedom! but when your freedom kills someone else, what kind of freedom is that? what about their freedom? freedom to ignore the science and the facts. that's what got us where we are, tonight. and as i said, this is not just a red state or a blue-state thing. there are republicans, who are sounding the alarm. trying to convince the unvaccinated to save their lives and the lives of their loved ones, before it is too late.

maybe, it is -- it might be too late. i don't know. i hope it's not. i really do. but i'm really worried that it's too late. so, those republicans. republicans, like west virginia governor, jim justice, who has been strong on vaccinations, from the very beginning. now, he says the delta variant is coming, and coming faster. and he goes on to say this. >> for crying out loud, you've got to get yourself vaccinated. that's just all there is to it. >> there's mitch mcconnell, who -- well, now, who's said, all along, that people should get vaccinated, right? he put out a radio ad. he is urging people -- urging people in kentucky to get the shot and recalling his bout with polio, as a young boy. that should be a lesson to all of you. he is saying that. but listen to what he told larry kudlow on fox business.

>> honestly, it never occurred to me we'd have difficulty getting people to take the vaccine. >> it never occurred to him? really? never? really? let's think about this. okay? put your partisan hat aside. to think that, you'd have to ignore the whole, terrible history of this pandemic, from the very beginning. the politicizing of it. you'd have to ignore the anti-science, anti-fact-based garbage that far too many republicans have been prompting -- promoting all throughout this. the claims the virus was totally under control. it's going to go away, like a miracle, right? it's just going to go away like a miracle. prompting bogus cures like, remember, hydroxychloroquine? hydroxy. hydroxy. or the powerful light inside the body.

injecting disinfectant. mocking wearing masks. ignore the science. ignore the facts. freedom! and the republican deniers are, also, ignoring the facts of what we, all, saw and what we all heard on january 6th. that's when blood-thirsty trump-supporting rioters stormed the halls of congress, beating police to within an inch of their lives. forcing lawmakers to run for it. or maybe, it's not that they're, you know, ignoring them. maybe, they're scared of them. with the select committee threatening subpoenas, does -- does this guy seem nervous to you? jim jordan? >> did you speak with president trump on january 6th? >> yeah, i mean, i speak -- i spoke with the president last week. i speak with the president all the time. i spoke with him on january 6th. i mean, i talked with president trump all the time. i mean, that's -- that's -- i don't think that's unusual. i would expect members of

congress to talk with the president of the united states, when they are trying to get done the things they told the voters in their district to do. i -- i -- i'm -- i'm actually kind of amazed sometimes that people keep asking this. of course, i talk with him all the time. like i said, i talked with him last week. >> on january 6th, did you speak with him before, during, or after the capitol was attacked? >> i'd have to go -- i'd -- i -- i spoke with him that day, after? i think after? i don't know if i spoke with him in the morning or not. i -- i just don't know. i'd have to go back and -- i mean, i don't -- i don't -- i don't know that -- when those conversations happened. but um, but what i know is i spoke with him all the time. >> come on. so, you speoke with him on january 6th. you think, maybe, after, but you'd have to go back, but you don't know when those conversations happened.

but all you know is that you speak with him, all the time. please. you really expect us to believe you don't remember when you spoke to the president of the united states on the day that the capitol was attacked by rioters hunting lawmakers? in the hall -- you were there -- in the -- in the halls of congress, and chanting, hang mike pence, but you don't remember when ya spoke to the president. you don't remember. really? and then, there's kevin mccarthy, who is so determined to downplay what happened on january 6th that he calls it an altercation. >> we've watched the sergeant of arms have to pass a note to the speaker during the altercations on january 6th of whether to call the national guard. >> pathetic. i'm just going to say it. pathetic. do you believe that? it's not even the body language, the -- it's so fake.

it's so fake. acting. an altercation is defined as a noisy, heated dispute, which doesn't begin to describe the violence, the bloodshed, when rioters ran wild in the seat of our democracy. trying to overturn joe biden's election victory. does that look like an altercation to you? that's an altercation? okay. and just listen to this mish-mosh, as kevin mccarthy tries really hard not to say what happened on that phone call with the then-president, that day. >> when i called the president, i was telling about what was happening in the capitol because none of you would know unless you were in the capitol. low and behold, the information we have today, i didn't know, at that moment in time, that pelosi had been passed a note, can you call the national guard? i don't know, at that time, december 14th, they knew.

i didn't know, at that time, the sergeant at arms said he couldn't have it because of optics because they never spoke to us. it's purely a political position. >> funny. that's not what congress -- congresswoman jamie herrera beutler says happened. she says while the capitol was under attack, kevin mccarthy called the then president begging for him to call off the mob. trump's stone-cold response? well, kevin, i guess these people are more upset about the election than you are. and then, there's mo brooks. you remember him. whipping up the crowd, before the rioters stormed the capitol. >> today is the day american patriots start taking down names and kicking ass! >> hmm, did you see the hat? fire pelosi. now, we're learning that he was wearing body armor when he said that. which seems odd, if you are not expecting trouble. and he is still trying to blame black lives matter and antifa

for what, we know, was an attack by trump supporters. remember, all the evidence, investigation, no antifa, no black lives matter. trump supporters. more than 500 people who have been arrested. no black lives matter. no antifa. trump supporters! trumplicans. brooks telling cnn, the reason was i often wear body armor because of all the death threats and threats of violence that i, and other congressmen, get. we were warned by the house sergeant at arms that threats of violence against me had spiked in december, 2020, and january, 2021. but the only threats i was aware of, on that day, were blm and antifa. hmm. okay. if you believe that, but talk about faulty intelligence because that's not what happened. when you look at these three, you can see the direction the

investigation will have to go and -- and what it's going to take to get to the truth, no matter how hard they try -- they may try to hide it. so, that brings us back, full circle, to the truth. the facts we need to save our democracy and our lives. this is a break-glass moment. what are we going to do about it? and it is our breaking news. this alarming report that the delta variant is so contagious, it spreads more quickly than ebola or the common cold. and vaccinated people may transmit it, as easily as those who are unvaccinated. we'll tell you what you need to know, right after this quick break.

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ask your doctor about verzenio. our breaking news. cnn has confirmed an internal cdc document that warns delta variant infections are likely more severe than previous strains. "washington post" reports that the variant is so contagious that it acts almost like a different, novel virus, spreading more quickly than ebola or the common cold.

i can't say that -- more quickly than ebola or the common cold. let's discuss now. cnn medical analyst, dr. jonathan reiner is here. he is director of the cardiac catheterization program at george washington university hospital. dr. reiner, good evening to you. this is serious. this is serious. talk to me about this new report. >> well, the internal-cdc document actually gives some understanding to why the cdc, earlier this week, recommended that vaccinated people mask up in places with significant loads of virus in the community. and what they, basically, are saying is that, you nknow, delt is different than the alpha strain of this virus. and it's different, in the following ways. first of all, it's highly contagious. and as you said, it's much more contagious than the common cold. it's about as contagious as chickenpox, which is a very contagious virus. it's, likely, more severe or causes more severe disease than some of the earlier variants.

we -- look -- we've known, for a while, that people who are infected with delta have quite high viral loads. and having a lot of virus onboard appears to cause more severe illness. and importantly, and this, again, goes back to the updated guidance about masking vaccinated people. it looks like people who have breakthrough infections, vaccinated people who have breakthrough infections, may be as infectious, or may be able to transmit the virus, as well as unvaccinated people who are infected with delta. hence, the recommendation for vaccinated folks to mask up. but let me -- let me cut to the -- the good news. the good news is that the -- this sort of con sensus documen from the cdc shows that the vaccines are, still -- still, work exceedingly well. you know, well over 90%, at preventing severe illness or

death. hospitalization or death. so, our vaccines still work, in the way that we really need them to work, which is preventing death. the vaccines reduce the risk of severe illness and hospitalization and death, by about twen25 fold. there are a lot of breakthrough infections in the united states, about 30,000 per week. which seems like an enormous number but remember, there are 70 plus million people vaccinated so while 30,000 is not an insignificant number, it's a small fraction. it's -- it's a decimal of the overall number of vaccinated people in this country. >> yeah. here's what the -- this internal document argues that officials must acknowledge the war has changed when it comes to this delta variant. dr. reiner, "the washington post" spoke with someone working

with the cdc on delta. and they point to the outbreak in provincetown, massachusetts. shows vaccinated people were transmitting the virus to other vaccinated people and the person who spoke to "the post" called it a canary in the coal mine. listen. i have been -- this is -- this is something that happened in p-town. and um, had been discussed among people in the gay community. and not widely discussed among health officials. and now, it's coming to light. it's been getting, hey, did you know such and such and such and such had a breakthrough thing, whatever. and it is now hundreds of people. what does this mean, going forward, in how we protect ourselves? >> yeah, very simple. everyone in this country should be masking in public. you know, we've been doing this, you know, for a while. physicians have been doing this for a while. us continuing to wear masks in congested-public places. now, i think the simple advice to the -- to the entire country

is, whether you're vaccinated or unvaccinated, if you go into a store or crowded-public place, put a mask on. it'll -- it'll significantly reduce the risk that you'll get infected. either, a primary infection or a breakthrough infection. and secondly, most importantly, you don't have to die from delta. if you are vaccinated, you are not going to die from this virus. the vaccines are exceedingly effective. remarkably effective at reducing the incidence of severe illness or death. get vaccinated. get vaccinated, now. and, look, i think this is one of the reasons why vaccination rates in the united states are rising. i think people are starting to get it. that delt -- you don't screw around with this virus. this variant can kill you. so, if you're not vaccinated, i it's not too late. you can do it tomorrow. >> yeah. and i think it's -- provincetown, it's a lot of people coming from all over the country, in a closely-confined, very small place.

>> yeah. >> and there you go. and that can happen, anywhere you have a lot of people in confined, constricted areas that aren't outside. thank you very much, doctor. i appreciate it. we are going to have more on our breaking news. will this be a wakeup call for the unvaccinated? what about the rest of us? the sleep number 360 smart bed is on sale now. it's the most comfortable, body-sensing, automatically-responding, energy-building, dually-adjustable, dad-powering, wellness-boosting, foot-warming, temperature-balancing, recovery-assisting, effortlessly life-changing... proven quality night sleep we've ever made. and now, save up to $1,000 on select sleep number 360 smart beds and adjustable bases. plus, 0% interest for 24 months. only for a limited time.

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back, now, with our breaking

news. an internal cdc document warning delta variant infections are, likely, more severe and spread just as easily, among the vaccinated as among the unvaccinated. that, as the country is as divided as ever on what you can -- what we can -- what we can pull out of this pandemic -- what can pull us out of this pandemic. excuse me. here to discuss, cnn senior commentator,ohn senior politica commentator, david axelrod. gentlemen, good evening. thank you so much for this. david, i am going to start with you. this new information from the cdc slides on how dangerous the delta variant is. it's terrifying. cases and hospitalizations are rising, rapidly. um, it's -- it's unbelievable. people are dying. they don't have to die. so, the -- the president is under tremendous pressure to act. but what more can be done? what more can he do? >> well, it's really paradoxical for a couple of reasons. one is, you know, you tell

people, hey. even if you've been vaccinated, you can be infected. and you can infect others. and you need to mask up. and people who haven't been vaccinated hear this message, and say, well, i haven't -- you know, why should i get vaccinated if it's -- i'm still going to get the disease, anyway? well, the answer is that you won't be hospitalized, most likely. you won't die, most likely. but they're struggling with that paradox. the second piece is, like almost everything else, unfortunately, in public life, today, this has been politicized, to a degree that it never should have been. and you have people who are resistant to biden, as a messenger. who have fit this into a political paradigm of government, versus freedom. and so, when they hear messages saying, you know, we -- we

really need to do this. we have to wear masks and so on. it becomes an exercise in defiance, rather than, you know, protecting yourself and your neighbors. so, this is a really complex communications challenge. and i -- you know, look, i think the president's fighting his heart out here. and most public officials, republican and democrat, or -- are. but there are others who have seen this as a political opportunity to fight, you know -- to fight, you know, this -- this -- this phony -- this phony battle over freedom. you know, when, in fact, you know, no one has the freedom to endanger everyone around them. that is not what freedom means, in this country. and -- and we have to kind of embrace that, and move together, regardless of party. and fight this, as one -- as one country. >> you know, john, maybe, this delta-variant news will scare people into getting the vaccine. but we are now in a place that we have to pay people or even

threaten to fire them from their jobs, in order to save lives or keep millions more from dying. it is absurd. do you think mandates are the answer? >> well, look. let me just, first of all, don, say that there's only -- there's only a limit to what biden can do, celebrities can do. in our state, here, in the state of ohio, people over the age of 65, 80% of them have vaccinations. under -- over 60, it's 60%. and, don, who is not getting the vaccinations? young people. they think that it's not going to be that serious, to them. i have talked to them, all the time. try to encourage them to do it. secondly, your people who live in the rural community. they live there. they don't want somebody from the government trying to tell them what to do. and so -- and you have a third group, which are -- which is the minority community. which really distrusts a lot of what's happening in medicine, today, because, you know, they were -- they were experimented upon, as you know, if you think about tuskegee. so, the way to solve this --

>> can i explain was tuskegee was? they weren't experimenting with vaccines in people. they were not giving people vaccines. yeah. so that's not -- it's not like they were injecting them with something that was going to be harmful to them. they weren't giving them vaccines. so it's not -- you know, it's not the same thing. but go on. >> no, but it's a suspicion about the healthcare system. and -- and -- which is understandable. but i believe it's a grassroots solution here. i believe that, in the rural communities, it's got to be farmer to farmer. it's got to be what happens in the small towns, what happens in the taverns with people talking to one another. with the young people, that's -- you know, that's -- that's grandma, grandpa saying you can't come see me, if you don't get vaccinated. and when it comes to, you know, the -- the rest of the people, it -- it has to be about a bottom-up. it has to be who you know that tells you to go and get this done. and in the minority community, i -- i think it's -- it's the church. it's -- it's the community people, who are respected. >> john -- john, i don't have a

lot of time. i understand what you are saying. that is in a completely utopian world. where if everything -- my question was are vaccine mandates, is that what's going to have to happen? that was -- that's the question. in order -- because it would be great. yes, it would be great if people would do that but they're not doing it. if you looked at what harry had on chris's show. the majority of the people who were not getting vaccinated are conservative whites. 13 or 14% of minorities are not getting vaccinated. 37% of the people who are unvaccinated or the people who don't want to get vaccinated are conservative-republican whites. so, i understand that -- i understand -- >> don. don, 40%. look, 40% of healthcare workers are not vaccinated. 40%. they're not republicans. okay? if you want to break this down -- >> how do you know that, john? >> well, how do you know the people that live in a rural community -- do polling? i mean, look, at the end of the

day, don, it's got to be neighbor to neighbor and family member to family member. >> i'm looking at the data. and i'm asking you if mandates -- my question was are mandates the answer? i understand. >> some places -- in some places, they're going to do it. businesses. >> okay. go on. >> and businesses are saying you got to get vaccinated. if you don't get vaccinated -- >> but is it the answer? will you just answer my question? are -- are -- is it -- are mandates the answer, john? can you just answer it? >> in different places -- don, it's not a simple yes or no. it's appropriate, in some places. and the business -- it's appropriate, some places. >> that is the point. people are speaking out of both sides of their mouths and they should be more emphatic about what should be done. yes, i have the freedom to drive 90 miles an hour through a school zone. but i, also, have to take respon -- and no one is going to say to me, yes, don, you have the free -- they would say to me, you can't do that. you shouldn't do that.

>> what are you going to go into rural america? what are you going to do? rural america is part of america. rural america has to abide by the rules, just like anybody else. >> yeah. okay. >> don, can i -- >> what i am saying to you is each place has to be done, based on what's going to be most effective. not on something that isn't going to be effective. >> yeah, go ahead, david. go ahead, david. >> i just -- i just want to get a word in here. i agree -- i agree with john, that -- that the grassroots approach is the approach we should take. and i think the president would agree with him, as well. that is the approach that they have taken. the problem is you have people, like the governor of south carolina, who says we are going to make it illegal for people to go door to door and talk to their neighbors about the need to get vaccinated. >> i think that's outrageous, terrible. >> well, it is outrageous and that's what we need to fight, john. i mean, we need -- we need public officials, all, rowing in the same direction here. and if people see it as a political opportunity -- if they see it as a political

opportunity, rather than a public-health crisis, that's when we have a huge problem. >> i know. but we also have anti-vaxxers out there, who have been fighting all vaccines for a significant period of time. and most of them, they are made up of both parties and you know who the leader is. i don't need to mention who the leader of the anti-vaxxers has been. but, of course, there are places where it should be required. look in new york city. you either get it, or you must get tested. there are businesses saying -- google's saying if you don't get -- if you don't get vaccinated, you're out. i agree with those approaches. i think that makes sense. should you do it from the federal government, down? i'm not certain about that. but there are appropriate places where we ought to tell people, if you want to be involved in this, if you want to work here, you are going to get a vaccine or you're going to get tested. and if you don't do either of 'em, you're out. and at some point, it's going to move away from the testing into a mandated vaccine. it's serious. i agree with don lemon. i just want to take -- i do. what's funny about that? >> because you just answered the question i've been asking.

because it went a long way around of answering. that's all i was asking you. what you just said there, that part, you just answered the question. before, you didn't really answer my question. that's it, john. that's it. >> you know, don, everything is not a simple yes or no. and it's more sophisticated than that. and that's what i was explaining to you. >> i understand there is nuance. but there's sometimes where you have -- you have to be emphatic with people. you have to give them the -- the thing that is going to make something better, quickly. and by coddling people is not the best or the most direct approach. >> are they coddling them in new york city? are they coddling them in new york city? is that what the mayor's doing there? >> no, you mentioned rural. you were talking about other -- >> new york city. wait a minute. is the mayor coddling them in new york city? because he's not forcing them to get a vaccine or fire them? he is trying to take an approach. number one -- yeah, answer that question. >> i think that, yes, i think that if you don't get

vaccinated, you should not be allowed to go into a -- a business. i think, if you don't get vaccinated, you -- i think, that you should have to show that you're vaccinated, in order to go places. because you are inhibiting other people's freedom. you are putting other people's lives in jeopardy. people who are following the rules. people, who are looking out for their fellow man. you are putting them in jeopardy. so, if you don't want to do it, then you must face the repercussions of not doing what is, what, best for the most people in the society. the good of the fellow man. >> can i -- can i -- can i slide in here, for just a second? >> go ahead, david. >> i agree with you, don. and i -- and, you know, what all i'm saying to the governor is that we need public officials to stand together on this. so if -- if the governor of florida -- the governor of florida, for example, says, you know, we're not going to allow

in the legislature there, you know, vaccine passports or -- or a way to prove that you've been vaccinated. that exacerbates the problem. and so, we need people to stop trying to weaponize this, for political advantages, within their own tribe. and join together and say here . and that's a big -- >> david i think that -- but i don't think that's the fundamental problem is what i'm saying. i think the problem is deeper than that, and it has to do with who people are and where they live. finally, i wish donald trump would come out and tell everybody to get vaccinated. would that change everything? i don't think so. i don't think it would change -- it would be good. and i'm for it. and anybody, who makes this out to be some kind of a -- of a lie about this, outrageous. and they should be taken to task. >> thank you, john. thank you, david. i appreciate it. thank you very much. i appreciated that conversation. you know, he defended a mask mandate in a city where covid cases are surging only to be

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this week, the st. louis county council voting to overturn the mask mandate on the s same day that the cdc released its new guidance. acting st. louis county health director spoke in defense of the mandate, only to be repeatedly interrupted and heckled by the largely anti-mask crowd. >> sir, i don't want to engage in a debate with you about what constitutes a mask or not. i commend the 16-year-old. madam chair, if you do not restore order, i will walk away and we will have to have this conversation -- >> excuse me. excuse me. dr. khan, i am running this meeting. >> i know you are, madam chair. but i am asking you to restore

order. >> just a minute. i am giving you the respect that you need to answer the questions that this council is asking you. i want to know, what -- what we did not -- what did we not do correctly? >> we didn't talk to the virus about how it should behave, ma'am. >> i don't like to use this thing but i will. thank you, dr. khan, that's it. there are any other questions? any other follow-up questions from any other council members? thank you very much. [ bleep ]. shut the hell up. >> doing pretty good, too. >> faisel khan is here, and he tells us how things even got to this point. that's next. and here. which is why the scientific expertise that helps operating rooms stay clean

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acting st. louis county health director dr. faisal khan, heckled, taunted and threatened, and he joins me now. thank you so much. >> it's a pleasure, don. >> what happened? how did it get to the point where you'd be insulted and attacked in this ugly way? >> you know, i have to say that this is perhaps the latest symptom of the wider malaise that began in our country about 18 months ago when the pandemic first arrived on these shores. what was supposed to be a public health issue and emergency was heavy politicized at the federal, state, and national level, and we're just seeing the latest symptoms of that erupt at a local level. you know, more than 270 of my counterparts across the country have either resigned or been

forced out of their jobs, and that is a tremendous loss to the public health workforce. i will say this. the st. louis area is an amazingly beautiful place. we have a great community of loving, kind, gentle, kind-hearted community that takes care of each other. and so, you know, there are parts of the community that are experiencing an acute sense of frustration and fear over the uncertainty posed by the pandemic. and people instinctively fear what they don't understand. that's being exploited by others for political advantage. that is what played out on tuesday night in my opinion. >> what exactly happened to you at this meeting, doctor? >> so as a public official, i always make myself available to go to council meetings, the legislative branch, to answer questions and explain policy decisions and the rationale behind them. i was asked to attend the tuesday night meeting after we

announced the mask mandate a day earlier on monday. i showed up with information and to basically answer questions and share information. regrettably when i walked in the room, you know, the anger in the crowd, a sizeable crowd, was palpable. my heart sank a little as a medical epidemiologist and public health physician. everyone around me was unmasked. some people were there with their children. some people were clearly in the older age group. so the first thought that crossed my mind was that this is a superspreader event in progress. and then it just -- once it began, you know, the emotions of the crowd had been worked up and st stoked even before the meeting began and it just went downhill from the first question onwards. >> listen, i just want to share this, and i'm going to let you go. this letter you wrote to the council chair asking for an investigation. you said, quote, i approached

the exit and immediately outside the chambers i became surrounded by the crowd where members of the crowd yelled at me, called me a fat brown "c" word and brown bastard. so please come back and give us an update when you hear back and going forward. thank you very much, doctor. i'm sorry that happened to you. i appreciate it. >> thank you, don. i really appreciate it. >> thank you. next, breaking tonight, cnn confirming an internal cdc document warning the delta variant is far more contagious and might cause more severe disease. we're going to talk to someone who has sign those documents. that's next.

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