one step forward, two steps back. i'm michael smerconish in philadelphia. let's first talk about that step forward. the good news. about seven months after the rollout of vaccines, 50% of americans are now fully vaccinated against covid-19. and we also hit president biden's july 4th milestone, albeit a month late, as more than 70% of u.s. adults have gotten at least one dose. this follows a steady rise in vaccinations, up 11% from last week. but what's truly notable is where vaccine demand is

climbing. it's in southern states with poor vaccination rates. and a strong hesitancy against the shot, according to a cnn analysis of data from the cdc. take alabama for example, the state has seen an average of 2,600 new cases per day. up by 131% from two weeks ago. one state health official says they've literally been throwing away doses because they've expired with not enough people going to get them. but on thursday, the state's seven-day average of vaccine doses administered per day was about 13,000, according to the cdc. that's up from a month prior when the seven day average of doses each day up to 7,000. we've seen an uptick in vaccinations in hard-hit states like arkansas, louisiana and missouri. what is suddenly motivating people to get the shots, state officials say it's partly driven

by fears about the spread of the delta variant. and driven by date that a that shows that unvaccinated people face a much higher riskch death from covid. we're still taking steps backward. the rate of new vaccinations isn't fast enough to outoperation the delta variant or any new variant that could emerge. we just learned that the u.s. is now averaging more than 107,000 new cases of covid-19 every day. the highest in nearly six months, that's according to data from johns hopkins. and as this case count climbs, it's important to remember, not everyone who wants a vaccine is able to get one, either because of a medical reason or because they're too young. florida leads the nation in hospitalized children as governor ron desantis bans mask mandates in schools. and another 11-year-old patient in texas was airlifted to another hospital 150 miles away because there's zero bed space

for her. employers now grappling how to handle vaccine mandates. only 45% of aides in long-term facilities are vaccinated. the biden administration now considering the extreme option of using the federal government's powers to help triage this pandemic. they're in early stage talks about withholding funding from some institutions, like nursing homes, to boost staff vaccinations. in other words, we've reached a critical juncture in the fight. and the question is, how can we keep the vaccination momentum going and cross the finish line? will it require more mandates and more stick than carrot from insurance companies? which leads me to this week's survey question@smerconish.com. should the unvaccinated pay more for health insurance. go to my website, smerconish.com. let me know what you think. joining me is joseph g. allen, associate professor and director

of the healthy buildings program at harvard school of public health. he's the author of a book called "healthy buildings, how indoor spaces drive productivity." and mandates are the only way forward. and i'm joined by dr. luis rosenthal who worked as an e.r. physician and previously a "the new york times" journalist. editor-in-chief of kaiser health news. and the author of "american sickness how health care became big business and how you can take it back." her latest essay for the "times" says, don't want a vaccine -- be prepared to pay more for insurance. professor allen, i'll begin with you, make the case that mandates are the only way forward. >> good morning, thanks for having me on, michael. nice to join you and dr. dr. rosenthal, the path is

clear, we have to do two things, vaccinate the u.s. and vaccinate the world. the biden administration ask successful in getting the vaccines out to everybody. within five miles of everybody. we've tried million dollar lotteries, we have tried free beer. it's not working. it's hit that limit. and delta herd immunity is higher. and so the path here, if you look to businesses they see it, they see it clearly and they're acting. the big names, apple, google, harvards, mgm, broadway, disney, mandating masks in place because they see this as the path out of this. >> cnn, by the way, should be added to your list. let me put a graph to yours essay, professor. you say it's splabsolutely appalling to see vaccination rates around 40% to 50% range

for unionized workers such as new york city's police, firefighters and corrections officers as well as 60% for the city's education department workers. are these the city's boldest, brightest, smartest? it's not looking like that for everyone. why aren't union heads out there promoting vaccinations for members? unions need to get their house in order. amplify those remarks. >> look, i wrote this, i was very angry. nobody escaped the wrath here. the unions have to be more forceful. it is appalling to see the low vaccination rates with police, fire and city. it's not just new york city. it's everywhere. to have workers in the 40% vaccinated range, that's totally unacceptable. and also, the fda needs to move quicker and get the vaccines approved. many people are on the sidelines waiting for full approval before they act. these are the most studied and scrutinized vaccines in history of the world.

they are impeccably safe. last, i want to call out athletes, they have been weak advocates. just this week, two nfl quarterbacks refusing to say if they're vaccinated to support the vaccines. we have to do a lot more. everybody is the problem here. and it's the only way forward. the vaccines are the path back. we have lost so much in terms the lives, livelihoods, businesses closed. it's stunning that we have this silver bullet, literally, this silver bullet to end this national and international nightmare. >> okay. you could not be more clear. professor allen says time for mandates. now, dr. rosenthal, you say, insurance companies could be doing more. what could they be doing? >> well, i think we could penalize people financially, for not getting vaccinated. i mean, this whole thing has been a bit of a mystery to me, particularly because we see rates that are as low, even lower than the 40% to 50%.

25% in many counties in missouri and arkansas. that's not okay, because that -- that risk not only puts others in the community at risk, but it puts all of us at risk, because of the pandemic, it breeds variants that could be more infectious even than delta. as you said before, the carrot approach has failed now we need to move to sticks. people seem afraid of mandates which i think are fine because they're worried about provoking a backlash. you get all of this talk about my freedom, my liberty. i think people are a little wiw lilly withered on that front. saying okay if you're not vaccinated, then you're going to pay a high price. because even now, even before insureds have moved -- early in the family, before the vaccines,

insurers normally that we're skeptical of are kind of good guys saying we're not going to charge co-pays or deductibles for people that get covid. they stopped that because now there's a vaccine that prevents you -- doesn't prevent you from getting covid, but prevents you from getting hospitalized or stick. these are $100,000, $500,000 hospitalizations so you're going to pay even now. i think it's possible to go a bit further and say, okay, if you're unvaccinated, maybe you should pay 50% more for your insurance and your premium. we do that in some plans for smokers. and i think the imperative is much greater here. because people who smoke put themselves at danger. there is the second hand smoke issue. and they do in a way, you know, all of our premiums go up if someone gets lung cancer. but here there is a shot that's free, that's safe and effective.

that px was developed by the trump administration and approved during the trump administration. so people on the right who are skeptics, this is kind of your vaccine. so, now, i think, okay, if you don't want do get a shot, you're putting me at risk. if you get really sick with covid and have a $500,000 hospitalization or need a lung transplant, that makes my insurance premiums go up, too. right -- >> right, what i hear you saying, dr. rosenthal, what i hear you saying if you are not getting a shot today, you are a scuba diver, you are engaging in risky behavior. and for insurance purposes should not be regarded the same as someone who is getting a shot. i need to go back to the professor for this question. i think that the mandate issue, i said this repeatedly here on cnn and on my radio program really ought to begin with public workers.

i think that the president needs to go further. there shouldn't be an out on federal workers or military personnel, nor the front line folks that you talk about, the cops, the emts, we love what they do their bravery, their heroism, but i'm sorry, vax-up, ladies and gentlemen, right? shouldn't that level be established at the government employee level? >> you're correct. there's no reason we shouldn't be mandating this. this is where the fda comes in, i know this is what's holding back a lot of organizations including the federal government. and, last, i don't understand why people are seeing this as an affront to our liberties. we do immunization records for all sorts of things. if you want to go to school or travel, international travel, these vaccines are extremely effective. an this is routine. there's nothing unusual about this process. >> professor, thank you for

being here. dr. rosenthal, for better or worse, you have inspired today's survey question. make sure you go to my website, okay? >> i will answer it and you know how i will answer it. >> and you know how i will answer it, too, for everybody, go to smerconish.com. answer the survey question, ought the unvaccinated pay more for their insurance? from the world of youtube, social media reaction, the things i have. cajoling and insulting, calling them stupid, identification dits and cowards is not the way to get them vaccinated and neither are the mandates. education is the key. dave, i believe economic incentives should be utilized. and that's what i heard from professor allen and dr. rosenthal. he said, in his case, mandate it. it's part and parcel of your job.

and she is saying that the insurance companies were, you know, they were good guys, or good women, initially, they waived co-pays when there wasn't a vaccine. but now there is a vaccine. i'm sick and tired evidence bearing the burden for those who will not roll up their sleeves. unruly airline passengers have become a pandemic of their own. this week, one had to be duct taped to his seat, soon after they limit the sale of alcohol. is that solving anything? only two governor have been recalled in all of history. gray dave, 2003. the current holder of governor davis' position, governor gavin newsom, it could happen next month. i'll talk to the rival leading the polls.

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who wants to fly nowadays? it's hard enough with social distance, masking, short-handed staffing a rash of flight cancellations but now there's a surge of inebriated fliers. this week, one such incident made national news on a frontier airlines passenger plying to miami. emerged from the bathroom shirtless, groped two flight attendants and then the only way subdued with a flight attendant duct taping him to a seat. the numbers of 100 and 150 annually, there have been 137

cases reported to the foo aa, t week, faa's steve dixon asked for the monitoring of bars and restaurants asking for the end of to-go cups. joining us now, sara nelson, the international president of the association of flight attendants. sara nice to see you here. what are you hearing from your members? >> that we have to do everything possible to tamp this down, make this stop. this is something we've never seen before. and if it continues on this trend, we're going to see more incidents of unruly passengers this year alone than in the entire year of aviation. >> what is causing it? >> our passengers have experienced this, 1 in 5 have experienced a physical event. and what's causing it is this different set of communications and conflicting communications, throughout the entire pandemic. many people don't know what to believe. public trust has been eroded. everyone's a little stressed out. our planes are full.

and there's operational issues as well. members are telling us that people are mad about that. alcohol is a major contributor. and we encourage the faa to send that letter and also to ask law enforcement to better coordinate, better respond. and make sure that we're prosecuting in these cases. so, all of these things need to be tamped down. and, frankly, having me on and talking about this is very helpful, to help the traveling public to understand what the rules are. why they're in place, and what the consequences are if you violate them. and i'll tell you, michael, one other thing. this is a very small group of people relatively on our planes causing these problems. most people just want to have a safe uneventful flight. but we need those helpers to speak up, be on the lookout, be kind. and call out these people and help respond to flight attendants when they're asking for help to help subdue someone. >> what have you heard

anecdotally as masks as a flash point? >> masks have been a flash point with totally divide with people. people have been given misinformation masks are the single most helpful way to stop the spread of covid. and in transit, we're inches away from each other, if thought. those masks are important to prevent transmission to make sure we're not spreading the virus anywhere else and transferring it on the planes. and flight attendants are doing their jobs and absolute a flash point and often is contributing to these incidents. >> sara, in your introduction, i made reference to the faa missive sent talking about booze that gets carried on the aircraft. you just told us you were partly responsible for encouraging them to do so. what about alcohol served on the airlines itself, are you

concerned abe tout that, too? >> alcohol is a major contributor. 60%, alcohol is a major contributor. we don't need anything else contributing to this when this is essentially an epidemic on the planes. we've been talking with administrator dixson, i was just talking to him. airports, airline, law enforcement, everyone in that total process, with staffing and everything else. and alcohol is a major issue. people are bringing those bottles of their own on board. they're bringing to-go cusps. if you come to the door of the airplane, you appear to be aneeb greated, you can be denied boarding. we are required to do that. if you get on the plane and you act out and alcohol makes you do things than you might do ice, by the way in a pressurized cabin, so it has a greater effect on

you. then you may be facing huge fines. you may end up in jail. >> did united have the right answer, are mandates the way of the future? mandates for crew and mandates for all passengers? >> look, we have done everything we can to try to encourage people to get vaccinated. incentives, an additional three days of vacation next year. we're trying to get the clinics at the airports so everyone has access. we've is itted ted wto to stop block on it so enough is enough. we got to make sure everyone is getting the vaccine with the very few exception as allowed. otherwise, this pandemic is going to continue to heewreak hc on our lives, economically and around the world. >> a final word from me, i've thrown several times, thank god, without incident in the last month. i don't want to frighten people

off, for heaven's sake, the few knuckleheads need reined in. thank you, sara. >> thank you, michael. a national information. that's now the fire service describes the wildfires burning across the u.s. why is it so bad? and do you recall when governor newsom broke his own mandate and dined at the michigan restaurant french laundry? well, it's one of the big factor as why the recall vote against newsom might succeed. i'll talk to one of the 46 candidates lining up to replace gavin newsom. larry elder is next. gena® hydrot lightweight. fragrance-free. 48 hour hydration. for that healthy skin glow. neutrogena®. for people with skin.

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will california voters can for a do-over of their choice for state leadership? governor gavin newsom is son the line of a recall election. it gained steam as many are angry over newsom's overreach to halt the spread of the covid-19 pandemic. they'll decide if newsom should be recalled. if the majority says yes, they'll vote to who should replace them. on a pool, 51% said they would vote yes on recall. who would take his place? well it's a crowded look at the ballot. 46 in total. larry elder, a trump supporter and radio host attorney who picked up momentum in recent

weeks. a new uc berkeley government study found that elder leads the back with 18% of the voter support. and larry joins me now. and larry, i see you're getting the star treatment today in "the wall street journal." you've only been in this thing about three or four weeks, what accounts for you, thus far, breaking through the pack? >> well, michael, good morning, let me push back on what you said, you called it a gop-led thing. 2.2 million californians signed the petition. h 53% of californians even if they don't believe that gavin newsom should be recalled do not want him to serve another term. if every single resident was part of that, you couldn't get up to 53%. the second thing, you referred to me as a trump-supporting radio host. may i address that. i have not voted for a democrat since 1976. that was jimmy carter. i regret that. i voted for bob dole, george

herbert walker bush and george bush. to call me a trump supporting radio host is a little unfair is my opinion, that's all. >> okay. well, did you support president trump? >> one more time, michael, registered republican, i haven't voted democrat since 1976. call me a mitt romney supporting person, or a george herbert walker bush person. i'm a republican. >> i'm not giving you a workout, let me ask this question, i'm ahead of myself already. only 19 states allow this -- only 19 state as allow this sort of thing to recall a state's governor. >> right. >> i want to ask you in a broad sense, not just with regard to newsom, in what circumstances do you think it appropriate to recall a governor? what's the framework, what's the

standard, in your mind? >> well, this, michael is my my opinion an emergency. you point the out in your tease about the him pock crazy that gavin newsom was sitting up at that french is restaurant. it wasn't that he was incurring a $12,000 wine tab, he was sitting there with lobbyists who drafted mandates. he was violating while not wearing masks. his own children enjoyed a private education. already black boys cannot read at state proficiency. and about a half of third graders can not. the largest funder of gavin newsom. they did not want in-school learning. two-thirds of black parents having watched digital education do not want to send their kids back to los angeles, because they feel the education is back. the majority of black and brown parents living in the inner city

want the choice. they want the money to follow the child, not the other way around. you add rising crime, homelessness, you add it up, perfect storm for californians, not just republicans, who want this man recalled. >> so, here's what i'm trying to understand from 3,000 miles away because to me recall is akin to impeachment. and i'm used to impeachment applying to a circumstance where someone has done one thing or a series of things that are real egregious. and in this case, it was ridiculous for him. they say, you know, the most expensive political meal ever to go to french laundry. >> right. >> but where's the beef? where's the thing that he did that you say warrants a professional death sentence? >> one more time. he shut down the state in the more severe way than any other 49 states. a good third of small businesses were gone forever. i was a small business operator, michael. it is hard to run a business.

most businesses are run on very small margins. you go from payroll to payroll. he shattered the hopes and dreams of one-third of businesses. crime is out of control. up 40% here in l.a. violent crime. just the other day, barbara boxer got mugged. her cell phone was taken. a few months early, gavin newsom was attacked by a homelessness, but for his security detail that most of us do not have, he would have been injured. for the first time in this state, people are leaving. net population negative. and the people that are leaving are not billionaires and millionaires, the people making between 50 and 200k that can't why that house. and largely funding this man. mikely, this is a crisis. people are very, very angry. people feel their kids are not getting a good education and feel the kids were shut out for a whole year. homelessness in california.

the gavin newsom people have a build house first, without dealing with why people are homeless in the first time. exacerbated homeless of crime, rising cost of living and hypocritical cal way of shutting down the state to having his own children enjoy private education. and exempted his own business, the winery, from mandates he put down to everybody else. people are hopping mad, as i pointed out, 53% of californians feel he ought not have another term. >> i get it. how about this question, i'll ask this of larry elder, the republican, not necessarily larry elder, the trump supporter, okay? >> thank you, thank you. >> how about the argument that says this is tactical, given the state of the public in california, you can't take out a guy like newsom statewide. so instead what you do, you lead a recall effort, passion

enflamed and you get signatures and put somebody like larry elder in. in other words, this the only way that a republican can get into office statewide in cali? >> one more time, this petition was signed by a whole bunch of people. it was driven by consumers, driven by californians, it was not driven by politicians. and the majority of people in california are very unhappy. most said if they had an occupation, they would leave the state because of things mentioned. we haven't added to the water fly, we're having rolling brownouts. and the added rising crime, add the rise in homelessness and cost of living and the majority of californians now think we ought to have a change. we have in our constitution the provision to have recall election as you point the out. california citizens are just exercising their obligation and constitutional rights to do this. that's why this man is in

trouble. that's why i want people to go to elect elder.com and throw a little something in the jar. i have campaign limitations, he does not. go to elect elder.com and help me remove this man and but common sense back in sacramento. that's what i'm going to do. >> do you think you'll have enough to say, to respond to in the issues? are you coming up short on any of your responses -- i'm just pulling your leg here, obviously, you're gifted at what you do, speaking for a living. larry, thank you. >> got it, michael, elect elder.com. >> let's check in on your comments from the world of twitter, replaying to larry elder -- no, this recall is a farce. more attempted republican reaction tampering. i don't know, d.l. what it's got to do with tampering, yada, yada. they got the signatures.

there's going to be this vote. what i was driving at with larry, because larry as you heard gave me a laundry list of what might be credible reasons for people to be upset with gavin newsom. i'm just accustomed to you're going to throw somebody out of office before the end of term they must have done something bad. and eating at french laundry doesn't meet that standard in my mind. voters have to decide. i want to remind you to answer the survey que question @smerconish.com. go to my website. should the unvaccinated pay more for health insurance? still to come, the town of greenville obliterated this week. in the dixie fire. the largest in state history and the largest of the 100 currently raging. what can be done? i'm about to ask someone who has been covering all of these fires. never settle for 25%. always go for 100.

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gold rush town of greenville, with downtown of fewer than 1,000 habitants. warning to stay indoors due to widespread hazardous air quality. the fire system, has a policy of letting some fires burn in part to keep from depleting the finite firefighting resources. this, despite the fact that in 2020 congress allocated $6 billion for wildfires with more than half for fire suppression. following recent criticism from fire officials, this week, randy moore suspended the let it burn tactic. in a letter sent to employees noting that the number of fires and persons fighting them are both triple the ten-year average for july. determining that the 2020 fire year is different than any before. in short, we're in national crisis. joining me is the staff reporter for the "los angeles times," she

covers california politics and policy. anita, thank you for being here, has something changed? if we go back to, say, the dust bowl of '30s is it changing? >> the big dust bowl era of drought that you bring up today was one of those times when we saw giant fires. but things are different today, i think the two most notable things that are different are that we have so many more people living close to where there are fires so that just more people in the path of these blazes. and we have climate change. we have fundamentally a different, hotter place where fires spread faster. >> has the way in which we have sought to contain these fires changed? >> well, that depends on who you ask. so, this is one of the, no one intended, hottest debates right now in the fire management world.

the fire service is saying that they're not actually changing their policy, they're just clarifying their policy. but there is a great deal of consternation among many state agencies, among many politicians and among many community members here in california that feel that the fire service has not been aggressive enough in putting out certain kinds of fires. those are naturally caused lightning strike fires that happen deep in the forest, far away from communities, where it has in past times been a philosophy of watching those fires. just monitoring them. with cameras and air. sort of letting them do their work and burn out. and most do burn out naturally. but there's a real sense that with the conditions we're facing now, they need to be more aggressive. >> what's it like to be there? what's it like to be on the scene of one of these raging infernos of thousands of acres? >> you know, i'll give you two

perspectives on that. the first one is just the physical of being there, the smoke is so thick that you need headlights in the daytime to drive through there. and it's so volatile and fast-moving that, for instance, on the road to greenville yesterday, or the day before, just driving up the road, the fire's coming down the mountain on one side. and it just jumps so quickly from tree to tree, that one moment you'll be looking at a moment, it's just a try. and like with a snap of your fingers, it's blazing with flames 20 feet in the air. so, these fires move incredible fast. and the other thing i really want to get across is the loss is not a personal loss. it's a community loss. when a town like greenville goes, it's not just one person trying to cope with that tragedy. it's an entire community that's probably never going to come back the way it was. >> anita, quick final question,

is like every other issue that confronts us these days? subject to partisanship? is there a democratic approach, a republican approach? >> i'll say there's a conservative approach and a liberal approach. there's definitely folks who think that we -- there's definitely politics in it, right? as everything is. there's those folks that think we need to be lobbying more heavily. that a lot of this is caused by environmental protection. there's those folks that think that, you know, we need to do more to manager our forests in ways that are looking forward and take climate change more into account. but more and more what i hear is that we need to put the focus on preventing fires, instead of putting them out. and that really crosses party lines. >> well done. thank you so much for being here. >> thanks for having me on. >> anita chabria from the l.a. times. >> still to come, some of your tweets and facebook comments and have you voted yet?

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jah time to see you how responded on smerconish.com to the survey question. should the unvaccinated pay more for health insurance? here are the results. wow, 91% and nearly 18,000 and change who voted. very decisive, 91% say, yes, bring it on. i am in the 91%. look, you're engaging in risky behavior. there's a vaccine. it is available to you.

you're going to put yourself at risk. if you go to the hospital, you're going to draw a large cost and, what, share it with me because i'm in the insurance pool? guess what, i smoke a cigar a day, i pay more for my insurance because of that risky behavior that i contribute. should be the same as the unevacuationed, in my opinion. what came in, catherine, on social media? we'll leave that up, by the way. should overweight people pay more, too? what about a person who drinks a bottle of wine every night? it is disease versus behavior. this is stupid? i don't think so, elena. how about a rock climber, a scuba diver. what if i want to hang glide, should i be paying additional sum for my decision to engage in risky behavior? i think the answer to that is absolutely. hit me with another one. real quick. elder is running away from the trump card as hard as he can. show how he cares about black boys. i wasn't looking to slight him,

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happening now in the newsroom, a major milestone in the fight against the coronavirus. more than half of the u.s. population has been fully vaccinated. >> that's exactly what it is going to take to get us out of this pandemic. more americans stepping up and doing their part to get vaccinated. >> there are concerns, though, that progress could hit a roadblock. hundreds of thousands of bikers descending on the tiny town of sturgis, south dakota, today. >> are you guys hearing about covid this year or the delta? >> no. >> did you get the vaccine? >> hell, no. >> miracles happen, even here in the senate. >> i was happy to vote to begin moving the