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americans in the coming months. more just ahead on what that means. >> speaking tonight on abc world news, he said american troops might have to stay in the country to secure the ongoing vaccination beyond his announced august 31st deadline. according to the president now, if there is american citizens left, we are going to stay until we get them aw out. he did not fully extend that same commitment to afghan nationals, though he said that's the objective. and it's unclear, how many americans actually remain in afghanistan. yesterday, u.s. officials gave differing answers. pentagon spokesman, john kirby, in the morning said it was 5 to 10,000. yesterday afternoon, white house press secretary, jen psaki, said it was, in fact, 11,000. and congressional aides were told by state department and pentagon officials the number was actually between 10 and 15,000, according to three sources familiar with those briefings. and that is the number the president said tonight. he also answered questions about the execution of the pullout. >> you don't think this could

have been handle -- this exit could have been handled better in any way? no mistakes? >> no, i don't think it could have been handle in a way that -- we are going to back in hindsight and look. but the idea that, somehow, there is a way to have gotten out without chaos ensuing, i don't know how that happens. i don't know how that happened. >> so, for you, that was always priced into the decision? >> yes. >> he went on to say, in remarks that air tomorrow, that he did not price into the decision the taliban keeping afghans who cooperated with the united states from leaving the country. he was also asked about his earlier, rosier predictions about the end game. >> back in july, you said a taliban takeover was highly unlikely. was the intelligence wrong? or did you downplay it? >> i think, there was no consensus. you go back and look at the intelligence reports. they said that there was more likely to be sometime by the end of the year. >> you didn't put a timeline on when you said it was highly unlikely. you just said, flat out, it's

highly unlikely the taliban would take over. >> joint chief chairman, general mark milley, also spoke to the subject today. >> the timeframe of a rapid collapse. that was widely estimated and ranged from weeks to months and even years. following our departure. there was nothing that i or anyone else saw that indicated a collapse of this army and this government, in 11 days. >> with congressional hearings planned to start as soon as next week, expect to hear a lot more on this including from a number of democrats, some of whom saw multiple tours of duty in afghanistan. last night on the program, one of those lawmakers, skon guessman jason crow, talked about the need for safe corridors to kabul airport so people wanting to leave the country can do so safely. today, though, the u.s. embassy posted this warning it reads the united states government cannot ensure safe passage to the international airport. now, bear in mind, this warning was addressed to americans.

afghan nationals likely need no such warning. they are already learning it, firsthand. more now from just what that reality looks like from our chief international correspondent, clarissa ward, has been doing remarkable reporting from kabul, over the entire crisis. clarissa, i want to get to your reporting just a moment much but when you hear what president biden said that this crisis is not a failure by the american government. the u.s. could not have withdrawn its troops without chaos ensuing. how do you square that with what you have been seeing and hearing from americans and afghans? >> yeah, i mean, if this isn't a failure, i don't really know what a failure looks like. and i think there will be a lot of people, on the ground here, in afghanistan, who will be, you know, a little troubled by the tone of president biden. not that they necessarily expected an apology but maybe at least a recognition of the fact that what's happening is horrendous. it's awful. and that these people very much do feel that they've been cast aside. there was a glimmer, certainly, of hope there in terms of

president biden, as you mentioned, appearing to commit to get afghans out who have worked with the u.s. military or the u.s. embassy or other u.s. international organizations. so that's something positive. but he wouldn't be drawn on the sort of specifics of when that might happen by, if that would happen when u.s. troops are still on the ground. or, maybe, afterwards. and so, i think there is still a lot of anxiety. um -- and nothing that president biden said today would really be giving most afghans a huge amount of security, going forward, anderson. >> yeah. what did you see today in -- in kabul? >> well, what we saw is that, you know, even if you have got all your paperwork, which is a big if, the reality is trying to get into the airport is -- is extremely difficult. there are scenes of -- of chaos. taliban fighters outside with -- with whips, with guns. we tried to sort of do it,

ourselves, to get a sense of what was possible. and we found that it is not for the faint of heart. take a look. >> reporter: america's last foothold in afghanistan is now guarded by the taliban. >> see the taliban all over. >> reporter: we have come to kabul's airport to see the gauntlet people must pass through to fly out. you can hear gunshots, every couple minutes. >> cnn, cnn, cnn. >> reporter: quickly, we are accosted by an angry-taliban fighter. can i ask you a question? cover my face? okay. cover my face. what is this? what is that? he told me to cover my face. but he doesn't want to comment on that he is carrying. the fighter tells us these

chaotic scenes are the fault of america. the cause of all this is america in afghanistan. look at these people, he says. america's really acting unfairly towards them. why are they lying and telling them that they can go to america? why don't they let them stay and help their country? >> don't want to talk to you. >> okay. all right. we keep walking to avoid confrontation. a man follows us, asking for advice. >> how we can enter the base? >> alhow you can enter the base? >> yes. >> do you have paperwork to enter? >> to enter? no. but we have [ inaudible ]. >> was this an italian company? >> yeah, italian company. >> okay. let's -- all right. all right. >> thank you. >> reporter: others crowd around us to show their documents.

>> translator. >> reporter: you were a translator? >> yeah. >> okay. >> reporter: so they are saying they all worked at american camps as translators for the americans, and they can't get into that airport. taliban fighters are a little upset with us. let's keep going. we decide to leave, and head for our car. the fighter takes the safety off his ak-47 and pushes through the crowd. >> stay behind him. stay behind him. >> reporter: you can see, some of these taliban fighters. they're just hopped up on adrenaline or i don't know what. it's a very dicey situation. suddenly, two other taliban charge towards us. you can see their rifle butt raised to strike producer, brent swales. when the fighters are told we have permission to report, they

lower their weapons and let us pass. okay. now, we're going. get in the car. >> i mean, it's terrifying to watch. um, that's -- that -- that's as close as you were able to get to the airport. i mean, this is what people are dealing with just trying to -- to get there? >> yeah and, anderson, keep in mind, we're a western-film crew. we're a western-news organization. we get special treatment. what we experienced there, sort of running the gauntlet to try to get near the airport. that's, like, a very different version from what afghans are experiencing. and that's why you've seen some of those images you've aired some of them on your show, last night. of people actually being hurt, seriously hurt, bleeding women, children, getting shot. you can see there's no real discipline with these taliban

fighters and the way that they are trying to restrain the crowds there. i do want to make one point, though, anderson, because i think it's important, which is that while the scenes at the airport are incredibly distressing and incredibly chaotic. the rest of the city is, largely, calm. we saw more people on the streets today. more shops open. more cars on the road. fewer taliban checkpoints in many areas. so they are trying to provide law and order. but the situation at the airport is so tense that i worry it's become like a powder keg and that one, little thing could go wrong. and it really could escalate into a very bad situation, indeed, anderson. >> you know, president biden's saying to abc that americans who are still in the country are essentially being given safe passage out. it seems like, you know, and that the taliban are cooperating -- that member of the taliban who was, you know, randomly, you know, telling you

to put on your -- your -- your face covering. and, you know, had a -- a device to whip people with. um -- i mean, is there any kind of hierarchy within the taliban? i mean, are they -- is there a higher officer? one on the scene? or are -- can any of these guys do whatever they want? they can just choose who to whip, who to strike with their rifle butts, and there's no -- they can do it. they have impunity? >> yeah. yeah, it's a really good question. and -- and to be honest, i'm not exactly sure of how they're organizing the -- the sort of security around the airport, to be honest. it doesn't feel very organized. it feels really chaotic. i will say that, the fighter who sort of accosted us and then, you know, was -- was -- was very aggressive with us and telling me to cover my face. he did, at one stage, say, oh, okay, you want to leave the country. i'll take you to the airport. and was sort of drawing us in even closer to -- to where the

sort of shots were being fired from. another, important thing. just to be clear, anderson. another thing i want to emphasize is while it's not only the taliban who are firing. it's just that the taliban are firing with absolutely no discipline. whereas, the u.s. military is also firing trying to disperse the crowd. there have been volleys of tear gas. they are doing it in a slightly more disciplined manner that might be more familiar to us. with sort of traditional mechanisms. dispersing crowds and very tense riot-like situations. these people who are still out there, every day, every night, gathering their papers. doing it again. >> yeah. >> and just think to yourself. how desperate do you have to be that even with, you know, whips and guns and having to sort of run this gauntlet, you are still out there. you are still trying. you're still hoping.

>> i mean, you know, the tragedy of somebody showing you their certificate of appreciation given to them, you know, for some employment that they had on a u.s. base or with -- with the u.s. military. it -- that -- a person like that, if they -- they -- can they get to the airport? i mean, will those taliban just roaming around stop them? and i mean, if they go to the airport and they show the certificate of appreciation, they are not going to get into the airport, are they? >> no, not without someone to help them. but you know who else isn't getting into the airport, anderson? when we were doing a live shot earlier on a young man who came up to us. he has a green card. he has a green card and he can't get into the airport because the minute the taliban sees that it's afghans who are coming up to try to approach the airport, they just shoo them away. i think that's partly because it's a chaotic scene and they are trying to control the crowds. and there is communication with the u.s., and -- and they are

trying to provide some modicum of security. but there is another side to it, too. which is they know how bad these scenes look. they know that it's not good for their image that there's this crush of humanity, desperately, willing to risk their own life and limb to get out of the country because they don't want to live under taliban rule. they want people to stay here. you heard that taliban fighter say it. he said why are you, americans, lying and telling people that they can get out of the country? and -- and go to america. why don't you let them stay here and build their country? and of course, the reality is, you know, for so many people here, especially in a city like kabul -- um -- a lot of afghans just are desperate to get out. and -- and -- and they're not interested in staying here and rebuilding their country because they're too afraid, anderson. >> yeah. and -- and you're an afghan who has a green card, there is no way you would show that green card to that guy carrying around a whip on the street who could just take it. and then, you no longer have your green card and you've -- if

you get to the embassy -- if you can get to the airport, you tell a soldier, well, i have a green card but you don't have it on you. you are not going to get in. what do you make of the fact that there's not an accurate count of americans still there? i mean, president biden, tonight, said between 10 and 15,000. hardly, a precise number. the u.s. just doesn't know, exactly, what americans are there? >> and i think that just speaks, again, to this sense, as much as president biden said there's been no failure. you couldn't possibly have planned for this. well, okay. but are there some things that, perhaps, the u.s. should know? like, how many americans are in afghanistan? um, you would think that might be something that they would be able to track and monitor, pretty effectively. but then again, when you are on the ground, as we were today,

and you are looking about those scenes. and it is chaotic. and tear gas is flying. and bullets are flying. and whips are being brandished. you understand that it's -- it's -- it's very difficult to have some kind of semblance of checks and balance and orderly lines. and it's almost impossible to keep track of who is going through and how many people. and, you know, i know a lot of western journalists who are desperately trying to get their -- their staff out of the country and the only way they can really do it is to physically go to the airport with them and evacuate them. but for -- you know, if they're not there, then your afghan staff or your afghan translator or your afghan friend, colleague, whatever it might be, is probably not going to be able to get out, anderson. >> clarissa ward in kabul. thank you so much for what you and your team are doing. we appreciate it. joining us now, ryan crocker, the former-u.s. ambassador to afghanistan, not to mention pakistan, syria, and iraq. am

ambassador crockerings thanks so much for joining us. you heard what the president said tonight to abc, that chaos ensuing was unavoidable. doesn't square with past statements that he made about a safe and orderly withdrawal. but i am wondering what you made of what the president said? >> the president's comments, anderson, not just this -- this evening but going back several days now are -- are deeply disappointing, to say the least. he seems to be blaming everything that's happened on everybody but him starting with the afghan national security forces. belittling the fight they have put up for -- for months and years now. the 70,000 dead for their country. deserve a little bit better than they are getting from the president. the irony here, of course, is listening to clarissa's reporting, that this may be the good moment. there may be worse to come because who are the afghans

trying to get to the airport? well, they are special immigrant visa applicants. they are individuals who -- who need to flee because they justly fear taliban re -- retaliation. and again, it's a horrific irony that they -- the only way to get to the airport is to pass through a taliban checkpoint or checkpoints. and what do they say? yeah, i've got a flight out because the americans are evacuating me because i served their forces. and if i don't get out of here, you're gonna kill me. so again, the disorganization. maybe, a few people will get through that way. what happens when they get organized and realize who these people are? >> yeah. and i -- i mean, if you are somebody who -- you know, you have the documents. what are you going to do? you are going to present it to that taliban guy on the street who is standing around whipping people and angry about, you know, america and angry about people who worked for them.

i mean, the idea that you are going to show your documents to some fighter who's, you know, could take them. or just, you know, beat you up or shoot you, could do whatever they want because you have served the united states. um -- you know, for those who got to the airport days ago, that was probably the -- the smartest thing they could do to try to get to the airport. now, it seems like, unless the u.s. figures out some, other way. or -- i mean, is there any other brokering of some sort of deal to -- to get afghans out? it doesn't seem likely, does it? >> well, it -- it certainly doesn't. and again, particularly in this chaos. who is in charge here? well, you know, we don't know. i'm not sure the taliban knows. but i -- i think you just put your finger, again, on the -- the awful irony here. that -- of people trying to get

to the airport so the taliban won't kill them but they have got to explain that to a taliban checkpoint before they can get to the airport. well, good luck with that. are there alternatives? it's been put out there a safe corridor or something where the taliban would not be checking documents coming through. that the marines would do it or the army and the marines would do it. that looks a little like mission -- and that is scary. any of those marines out there can tell you what happened to marines in beirut, lebanon, 1983 when they had an ill-defined mission that kind of stand in strange ways. they got blown up. so, we are between a rock and a hard place here. >> we've -- we've already seen, you know, the taliban in -- in -- in -- "new york times" did a piece the other day about what is happening where the taliban took over, you know, days ago or weeks ago. and they are now trying to get

civil servants to come back to the job. and, you know, they are starting out by doing it nicely. then, they start to threaten and force them back because they know they need people to, you know, run the garbage collection. to make the water come out of the taps. at a certain point, as the taliban gains control in kabul and figures out what's going on, aren't they gonna realize that -- or i assume they are going to realize and if they haven't already that all the people who want to leave are the people who actually know how to do stuff? they are actually the people who have been running things and are educated. and we've seen, in past, you know, threw out haitian civil servants who come to the country to help the country after the belgians left. it doesn't work when your educated class leaves the country. >> well, that's -- that's exactly it. and again, it's irony piled on top of irony. these are exactly the people that want to get out because

they've got alternatives and they've got -- they've got the means, presumably, to get out. or more -- more difficult. they have the service with us that entitles them to enter the united states. but i -- i can't see any way to explain that to a taliban checkpoint. >> yeah. >> that doesn't involve the unacceptable risk to the -- to the people trying to get there. >> yeah. ambassador crocker, i appreciate your time tonight. thank you. >> thank you, anderson. coming up, next. how this may play out political pl ly.

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before august 31st. >> but if we don't, troops will stay? >> if we don't, we will determine, at the time, who is left. >> and? >> and if there are american force -- if there's american citizens left, we are going to stay till we get them all out. >> the president also defending his execution of the pullout saying there was no way it could have happened without chaos ensuing. which is not how he billed it before the fact. perspective now from cnn senior political commentator, david axelrod. also, cnn chief political correspondent and state of the union anchor, dana bash. currently, senior adviser to us. dana, so, what do you make of what we just heard from the president? and i mean, moving -- is the moving goalpost? >> well, it's almost as if the goalpost that he set up, himself, didn't exist in the interview. and that really is the biggest problem that he has, politically. never mind, actually getting things calm and -- and the chaos under control if that's even possible, on the ground. but politically speaking, he has

that statement. the fact that there are 300,000 troops that -- that he was confident that they would be fighting. and there was nothing, in between there and him, now, saying oh, well, we -- i -- i have no regrets. and that there's nothing we could have done differently. i mean, that is a huge gulf. and it is pretty clear, from the president's body language, from his cadence, that he's -- he's on the defense. and this is a new phenomenon for him, in his eight months that he's been in the -- in the office. and pretty, pretty big one, considering the fact that he is the guy who -- and stands by this -- but he is the guy who said i'm going to end the 20-year war. the way it's ending is, certainly, not how he'd planned and not the kind of incoming, especially from some fellow democrats that he is getting that he expected. >> david, it's also interesting because there hasn't been a lot of public interest in the u.s. presence in afghanistan over the

last number of years. i mean, it just dropped off the radar. people didn't want to hear about it. didn't want to think about it. were tired of it. clearly, seeing these images, you know, now people are engaged. they're watching it. and i don't know if that's something president biden didn't expect. but it's certainly the situation he is facing right now. for him to claim that chaos was always going to be a factor in withdrawing from afghanistan, i do want to play what he said only weeks ago, in july. >> it's a rational drawdown with our allies and it's making -- so there's nothing unusual about it. our military mission in afghanistan will conclude on august 31st. the drawdown is proceeding in a secure and orderly way, prioritizing the safety of our troops as they depart. there is going to be no circumstance where you see people being lifted off the roof of a embassy in -- of the united states from afghanistan. it is not, at all, conferrable. >> i mean, you know, okay.

maybe, the helicopter wasn't off the roof but it's -- the pictures were pretty bad. >> yeah. and there's no way to reconcile those statements, and then say there's nothing we could have done. obviously, one thing you could have done was get the intelligence right. there were, clearly, screw-ups here. they're not his, personal screw-ups. but, you know, they're -- they're on his watch. and so, as i said the other night when he made his original speech, sometimes, you just have to say we -- we screwed up. and we're going to fix it and we're going to figure out why this happened. and it's my responsibility. that is -- i think people would respond well to that. but for some reason, i thought he was taking another bite at the apple today in this interview and that he'd come back and he'd do the piece that he didn't do the other night. but instead, he dug in more and i don't understand it. i think he has a -- a pretty strong argument on why it was time for the united states to withdrawal. and i think those people you

talked about earlier. you know, the vast -- or the majority of americans agreed with him on that. but these images have been very, very striking and -- and discouraging and sobering. and i do think it's changed people's opinions and it's hurting him. you can see it in polling. the polling averages for the president, over the last week, have taken a pretty significant drop. and i think it would be less bad if he owned up to the fact that, no, this hasn't gone the way we expected. and we're going to do -- you know, we're accelerating now. and we're going to try and make up for lost time. >> dana, i am wondering what you think of that? because i mean, it's an interesting idea. he is the guy, you know, who ran on supposedly being straight with the american people, not sugar coating things. if he had said, you know what? it breaks my heart to see those pictures. this is not, obviously, what we wanted. things didn't go the way we thought they would. but you know what? nothing in afghanistan has over the last 20 years and that's why we're -- we're pulling out and we'll do the best we can.

and we'll get americans out and -- and try to get out everybody who helped us. um -- would that have been enough? >> it wouldn't have been enough but it would have been different than the tone and the tact that he took in this interview. and my sense is that, that was the plan, as david said. and he's obviously been in these meetings, many times. these kinds of meetings. to take another bite at the apple. though, i actually think that one of the reasons why it was so jarring to see president biden as defensive as he was in this new interview is because it stood in contrast to even how he was two days ago. maybe, he didn't own it as much as david would have recommended but he did say the buck stops with me. he did say things didn't happen -- it happened more quickly than we anticipated. he was more candid then, than he was today, which was what was quite striking because it wasn't -- it wasn't on brand. it wasn't the kind of thing that, as you said, anderson,

that he promised in his campaign that you would get from a president biden. >> yeah. >> the one thing that i do think is important is is that he did say that that august-31st deadline is now no longer really a deadline. that they're going to stay and they're going to change the mission and they are going to get out as many americans -- all americans and they will do it as long as it takes. >> yeah. we'll see what the taliban says about that. david axelrod, dana bash. appreciate it. while all this is happening, president biden is also trying to address the other growing problem, of course, covid. just ahead, why he and u.s. health officials are now recommending a third-covid shot for those receiving the pfizer or moderna vaccines. the director of national institutes of health, dr. francis collins, joins us when we come back. ♪ ok, got everything ready. got the rental. got it dropped off. going to the championship with... your tiny champion. going... going... got it.

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breaking news stories now on the fight against covid. the first, president biden today announced the availability of booster shots starting just over a month from now pending evaluation from the fda and cdc. they would be at least initially for those who received the pfizer and moderna vaccines. late this evening, johnson & johnson said it would release more information, soon, on the question of boosting its one-shot vaccine. public-health officials say the reason for a third shot is that while vaccines are still highly effective against severe infection, multiple studies indicate they are less effective against milder cases caused by the delta variant. the source of nearly-all new cases now. the w.h.o., the world health organization, pushed back on the announcement saying it was unnecessary, particularly as poorer countries struggle to vaccinate their people. during his remarks, president biden said, quote, we can take care of america and help the world, at the same time.

we are joined by the director of the national institutes of health, dr. francis collins, dr. collins, appreciate you being with us. so experts at the highest levels of the administration had been saying they hadn't seen data indicating the general public would need boosters right now. can you talk about the new data and what's changed? >> well, i was one of those experts and as recently as three weeks oago, i was skeptical too. the newer data, some of which is published today by the cdc and some of which comes from overseas, especially from israel, does show a waning of the effect of vaccines over time. not enough to worry you too much, right today. what you are seeing, though, is breakthrough infections from people who were vaccinated. who do have infections that may cause symptoms. fortunately, though, at the moment, they are not ending up in the hospital. they're not ending up severely ill. but you can kind of see the trajectory we're on. and i think putting all that together, those of us looking at this and trying not to wait till the last minute sort of said let's work on this over the course of the next month.

let's let fda reqand cdc do the thing. an aim that by september 20th, the people that first got immunized back in january ought to be at the top of the list then to have access to a booster and that would be particularly people in nursing homes, the elderly, healthcare providers. all those who were first in line when we first rolled out the vaccines should now be in an appropriate place to get a booster. i think this is just a safe way to keep us from seeing more trouble from delta. >> so how does a person figure out when they should get a booster? >> so the way it looks, from what we're seeing in terms of the data, is that about eight months, it looks as if it's time to rev that immune system, back up again. and we know a booster will do that. raise your antibody levels by 10, 20, 30 fold. so that means if you are immunized sometime by january the 20th, your two shots from

pfizer and moderna by the end of february. well, then you should be ready for a booster by the end of october. just going by the clock. this seems to be what the data is telling us to do. now, anderson, there is nothing magic about eight. it's a little bit of a goldy locks thing here but we don't want to be too late. we don't want to be too early. this looks like about the right place to aim the effort, in order to try to save lives. >> dr. faus, an emergency medicine doctor in women's hospital, who like a lot of physicians had been on the front lines obviously of the pandemic. he said based on what he heard from the administration today, he wouldn't get a booster right now. he said it's not clear there is actually need for the general public to get a third shot and he says not enough is it known about side effects of a booster. so what do you say to someone like dr. faus who we should say a is a strong supporter of the covid vaccines in general. his hesitancy seems only to be about the booster. >> i totally understand that because this is sort of a clinical-judgment situation. but from my perspective, having looked at all of the data, i

think the case is going to be there in about a month. you know, anderson, think about this like it's sort of like you're in your car and you are driving for a long time. and you check and you notice that the gas gage is getting kind of low. and it's, like, okay, maybe it's time to do something about that. look for a gas station. that's kind of where it is with people who got those first doses, back in january. they're not in a crisis, right now. but it's time to start making a plan. that's all we are trying to do here. and again, the likelihood that the boosters are going to cause severe side effects, we don't have evidence to expect that. israel's been doing this, already, for more than a month and they have not seen much more than what you saw with the first and the second dose. some people got a sore arm and some people were a little feverish for 24 hours but nothing outside of that has been reported. so it's just when you are trying to balance benefits and risk. and especially, when you are thinking about people in nursing homes, people who are elderly and with medical conditions who are coming up to that eight-month period, pretty soon. it seems like the wisest thing to do.

>> the surgeon general said, today, that data on a booster for the 13 million or more people who received the j&j vaccine, which is one shot, that's expected in the next few weeks. some doctors, already, recommending patients who got the j&j vaccine receive a dose of pfizer or moderna vaccine. i know san francisco's health department is allowing people who got the j&j vaccine to do that. what do you say about that? >> i think we need to see more data. you are not surprised to hear me say that, are you? and there is more data coming. i think j&j mentioned that in a press release this evening. and i know we, at nih, are running a number of trials to see what happens when you mix and match if you start with j&j and then you boost with moderna or pfizer. we are going to have a lot more information about that, in the coming weeks. and i would say don't rush into a plan, until we have some really good evidence to know what's going to make the most sense. >> and just briefly, is there any -- i mean, someone watching this says well i -- if it's good at eight months, why not -- maybe i will just do it now even though it's only been five

months since i got the other. what do you say to that person? >> well, we know that there are people who have already been doing that, before today. i would say there's pretty good evidence from other vaccines and probably this will be true for covid-19. that you want to leave a pretty good interval between your initial immunization and that booster. you want to give the immune system a chance to mature its potential to generate new antibodies. and that probably means going quicker than, say, six months. might actually give you less benefit than if you can hang on and wait until at least six and better yet, eight. >> interesting. nih director, dr. frances collins, really appreciate it. thank you. want to get perspective now from our chief medical correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta. and cnn medical analyst, dr. leana wen, former baltimore health commissioner. so, sanjay, what do you make of what dr. collins just said? >> well, even up until yesterday, there was a lot of back and forth on this. not a slam-dunk decision, so to speak.

um, because, you know, the cdc was telling clinicians yesterday that there was no basis at least at this time for getting booster shots. the other thing that sort of strikes me is that, you know, you are hearing really sort of a rationale for anticipating what may come. and trying to get ahead of that. there is not the data showing a decrease, really, in the effectiveness of these vaccines for hospitalizations and people dying of this disease. there -- there may have been more people getting mild or moderate illness but what they are saying -- what he is saying and we are hearing all day long today is -- is there may be a connection there. if people are more likely to get mild or moderate illness now, that may mean people are more likely to be hospitalized or die later. so they want to get ahead of it. it's interesting but i think the vast majority of the problem still is the 85, 90 million people in this country who ares not vaccinated. 95% of the people in the

hospital are unvaccinated. transmission primarily among the unvaccinated. so this is really bolstering up protection for people who have a good deal of protection but there is a bigger problem in this country that still exists. >> and dr. wen, i know you are one of the more than 13 million people who got the j&j vaccine. was dr. collins' answer that more data is needed about what you should do -- was that satisfactory? >> no, it wasn't. although, i will say that i like the rest of dr. collins's answer. i think it's really good the biden administration is being proactive. during this entire pandemic, we've been behind. we have not been anticipating what's ahead so i am glad that the biden administration is laying out this general-booster plan. but i will note that this plan still applies to people who got the mrna vaccines. so far, the people who got the johnson & johnson vaccine were feeling increasingly left behind. many people got the j&j vaccine because they did what they were told. they were told get the first vaccine that you have access to. and now, they feel like they are being punished. that the advice is not being offered to them. i think, at this point, we actually have enough data from

other countries. there are mix-and-match studies for astrazeneca vaccine, which is similar to j&j. and mixing that and pfizer. germany, the uk, allow this mix-and-match approach. they even recommend it. it looks like you have an even better immune response, with that approach. i think there is enough, at this point, to say people who got the one-dose johnson & johnson vaccine should at least consider getting a booster. i don't need federal health officials to say we recommend it. i just want them to say we allow it and that way patients can make a decision with their doctor and do what the san francisco health department does, which is to allow people to not have to sneak around to get the j&j vaccine. >> dr. wen, do you think people who don't choose to get a booster dose at eight months are going to be at a greater risk for a worse breakthrough case? >> that's an interesting question. i don't think we know the answer to this. i do think that we are going to see two groups of people. as in, there are some people who will say it was hard enough for me to get the vaccine, in the first place. i really don't want to get a booster shot. i actually think that's a reasonable decision. it's also reasonable for somebody else to say i'm older.

i have chronic-medical conditions. if i land in the hospital because i have a breakthrough infection or if i get a breakthrough infection, i am much more likely to land in the hospital because of my other medical issues. and so, i should get a booster dose. i think this is the time for us to shift how we think about risk. everybody is calibrating risk in different ways. we should also be calibrating whether somebody wants to get a booster dose, based on their own medical circumstances and risk tolerance, too. >> sanjay, you have been following infection rates in nursing homes across the country. today, the president announced he is requiring nursing homes to get their staff vaccinated in order to continue to receive medicare and medicaid funding. certainly, seems reasonable if you want to get everybody vaccinated. how much of an impact do you think that would have? >> that -- that's the sort of thing that everyone sort of -- you know, sort of agrees upon when i talk to all these health officials. we -- we remember, you know, back to last spring, vast majority of the tragic impact of this disease was on nursing homes and long-term care facilities. a third of all deaths, at one point. plus, we can show you here, i

think we pulled some of this data to show you. the vaccination rates among residents of nursing homes, among the staff. and then, compare that to the u.s. population. so it's definitely higher and -- but when it comes to staff, when they find. that's an average number. if the staff vaccination rates are closer to the general population, nursing homes in those areas are at really high risk of significant outbreaks. much higher than the surrounding community. in some places, it can be 12-to-18 times higher the rate of new infections. so it -- this is where people are the most vulnerable. i mean, that makes absolute sense. and, you know, the way the president's approaching it saying you know, we are going to tie it into federal reimbursements in the -- >> yeah. >> makes sense. >> i am stunned that is 60% vaccination rate among nurses in nursing homes. i mean, that's really -- that's amazing to me. sng sanjay, doctor r. leana wen, appreciate it. more breaking news now on the legal fight over masks in florida. more school districts deciding

to institute mask mandates despite legal threats from governor desantis. today, president biden promised to support local school districts and fights against governors over those mandates. >> some politicians are trying to turn public-safety measures, that is, children wearing masks in school, into political disputes for their own, political gain. some are even trying to take power away from local educators, by banning masks in school. they're setting a dangerous tone. >> leyla santiago joins us from miami with the latest. so what is the latest on the debate over the mandates in miami-dade county? >> anderson, i just spoke to the superintendent of miami-dade and he says that he knew, if he made the decision he made tonight, that he could have some consequences. have a back and forth with the governor. but ultimately, felt that he was on the right side of the issue in supporting the board that voted, 7-1, to implement a mask mandate that doesn't have a parent opt out. and that is something that the governor says violates the law

because it violates his executive order that essentially bans that type of mask mandate. now, we should mention, this is significant because this is the largest school district in this state. but they are not alone. tonight, hillsboro county, also, implemented a similar mask and this is when they have thousands of students in isolation and in quarantine. insisting this is not about politics on opinion. they are making decisions based on medical experts advice as well as science. i checked in with the governor office. they are not -- they do believe this a violation of the law. they are doubling down saying requiring children to wear masks is not consistent with the parent rights. something that the governor has said all along. and the board of education has said this is a violation of law and they will move forward with an investigation and all legal

means possible which could include punishment like with holding salary and funds from school districts. big night tonight with school districts making this decision. now we see what the governor does next. >> thousands of americans still waiting to get out. the number unclear. thousands of allies want to escape. tens of thousands. including their family. images trying to flee the country. we spoke with a woman who got out days ago she worries about her family she left behind.

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back to our breaking news on afghanistan. as we mentioned, president biden told cnn news tonight that 10,000 to 15,000 of afghans want to get out of the country. images of desperate afghans at the airport trying to get on military planes. it is impossible to forget the sight of that one u.s. air force --

packed with 600. they worry about families back home. >> gary tuchman talked with two brave afghan women who live with that stress of day. one has been here for years. the other for a couple days. here's gary's report. >> reporter: 30-year-old tamana lived her entire life in afghanistan until this past friday when she flew to washington after receiving a special immigrant visa allowing her to move to the united states. how did you feel when you landed in the capital of the united states? what went through your mind? >> i said i'm not dreaming. >> reporter: she worked in afghanistan for usaid, the foreign aid organizations are an independent agency of the u.s. government. she applied for a visa four years ago. she was worried about her safety. because she worked with

americans. >> you felt life was threatened if krou stayed there? >> yes, of course, yes. >> reporter: her mother has passed away but her father, three brothers and two sisters are still there and she prays they won't be targeted because of her. how worried are you because of your family still being there? >> believe me, i cannot sleep every night that i'm thinking about my family. what should i do? >> reporter: she and many other afghan refugees are being supported by a group called lutheran services of the capitol area, where boxes of donations are arriving by the hundreds to help the expected huge influx of afghans expected to in the days to come. >> everyone is grateful to be here and full of hope. >> reporter: what did you do in

afghanistan? >> you was working as an interpreter for the u.s. army. >> reporter: this 29-year-old is an inspiring people. arrived in the united states when she was 24, all by herself. her parents, two sisters and one brother remain in kabul. she now works for the social services group and continues to financially support her family with her american salary. >> taliban always say that we are against foreigner countries to be in afghanistan, especially united states. and we will kill anybody that help them, anyone that works for them. >> reporter: so you feared for your life. >> yes. >> reporter: the takeover by the taliban and thein suing chaos have profoundly affected afghans who have been fortunate enough to receive visas. their anxiety has dramatically increased. this may be a painful question but are you concerned because people know what you did working for the u.s. government that your family could be in danger?

>> yes. actually, the other day i told my sister that burn all the certificates that i had from u.s. government because i had a lot of certificates, and my mom hanged one of them on the wall actually. >> reporter: because she's proud of you. >> yes, she was. and i told them just destroy it because i was scared if taliban goes to our house because i hear they are searching some houses. i told them just destroy them. >> reporter: tamana is now looking for a job, a permanent place to live and not allowing herself to look back. you know that it may be a long time before you see your family again. >> yes. >> reporter: but you felt that your life was in danger and you needed to be here. >> yes. >> reporter: and you had no choice. >> i don't have any choice. >> reporter: anderson, i asked both these women what their parents think about this and they say their parents felt the same thing, they're proud of both the girls, they also believe that the girls need to

be safe so they're happy that they're here in the united states. they want their daughters to be smart, they want their daughters to be educated, they want their daughters to be ambitious, they want their daughters to be strong women. the taliban, of course, has the exact opposite viewpoint. >> gary, appreciate it. thanks very much. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪