agencies are investigating petito's disappearance. meanwhile, the search continues for a vibrant young woman excited about living the van life. >> i love the van. >> we've been lucky so far at all of the places we've stayed but i would say this is one of the best so far. >> reporter: now nowhere to be found. meanwhile, her stech father traveled to wyoming to help look for her. he asked anyone who may be visiting the area and taking pictures or videos to go back through and see if they see gabby. erin. >> thank you very much. anderson starts now. good evening. in less than 48 hours in washington, d.c. there will be a rally of supporters of the former president who are now trying to rewrite the history of what happened on january 6th. it is a rally in support of those now being prosecuted for their roles in the attack, and it seeks to portray many of those being prosecuted as somehow political prisoners. according to information obtained by cnn, the department of homeland security is warning

about the potential of violence not just on the day of this rally but the day before, which is tomorrow. these warning based on threats on social media. there's reportedly no indication of a specific or credible plot associated with the event and the department of homeland security said it expects far fewer participants than during the january 6th rally. however, the new information obtained warns about the potential for so-called lone wolves maybe to attempt something. today fencing went up to protect the capitol. the pentagon says capitol police have requested assistance from the d.c. national guard. the individuals organizing this rally are supporters of the former president, some are propagators of his lies of voter fraud. the former president is pushing this notion that those involved in the capitol riot are being persecuted. he writes, quote, our hearts and minds are with the people being persecuted so unfairly relating to the january 6th protest concerning the rigged presidential election. by the way, that protest he is talking about is not why people are being pros cuted.

they're being prosecuted for breaking the law, taking part in an attack on the capitol, an attack in which more than 100 law enforcement officers were injured. office brian sicknick died the day after being attacked during the riot. four officers died by suicide during the aftermath. during testimony in july, one capitol police officer said he and fellow officers were punched, kick, shoved, and even blinded with eye-damaging lasers. for the record, currently 608 defendants have been charged, 70 have already pleaded guilty, six defendants have been pent sentenced, three to prison. let's start with brian nobles. in light of the security, what preparations are we seeing ahead of saturday's rally? i mean there's questions about how many people may actually even show up to this thing. >> reporter: well, anderson, there's no doubt that the security posture here at the capitol is like nothing we've seen since the days after the january 6th riot.

it is certainly way more than what was up here right before that riot. as you mentioned, there's now fencing wrapped all around the capitol complex. capitol police have asked for an increased presence of their own force, basically every capitol police officer is going to be expected to be up here this weekend. they've also asked for reinforcements from local police departments in washington, d.c. and northern virginia and suburban maryland. they've even asked the national guard to be on stand by. it is clear that they are not taking anything for granted. they are certainly preparing for a worse-case scenario. i mean there's really no reason to believe that the situation on saturday could spiral out of control like we saw on january 6th. there won't be nearly as many people here. the dynamics are much different. congress isn't even in session, but there is enough in what they're hearing in online chatter and just the overall mood of the type of protesters that will be here on saturday that has driven them to take the precautions that they have this

weekend. >> so the person now clearly sees kind of a little groundswell among far-right republicans in support of people who are being prosecuted, having their day in court, and the president's glommed on to that in his statement today. but it also seems that he's not sure exactly whether or not to be fully behind this rally or not, saying it could be kind of a set-up. there's other chatter among, you know, some far-right groups saying it could be a false flag operation. it seems like the kind of conspiracy theories are falling in on themselves now. >> reporter: yeah. you're exactly right, anderson. i think it is also pretty startling, not startling but something worth pointing out that in that statement that the former president issued today, he doesn't even mention specifically this rally this weekend. he just talks more broadly about his support for those that have been arrested and are currently in prison as a result of what happened on january 6th. but i think the important part to talk about as it relates to the former president's role in

all of this is that the misinformation that he continues to peddle, not just with the statement he put out today but just in general, putting out statements almost every day, still claiming that the 2020 election was rigged, warning that future elections could possibly be rigged, and just continuing to inflame the passion goes of many of his supporters who are just, frankly, misinformed about what happened in november and then what happened in january. that's what has law enforcement officials concerned because it is that anger, that angst that is driving many of these protesters, and it is what could lead them to doing something that could hurt other people or just, you know, create an event that spirals out of control here on saturday. >> ryan nobles, i appreciate it. thanks. we turn now to another breaking news story involving the justice department. a new indictment stemming from the special probe begun under the previous administration into the fbi's investigation of the former president. now, for the latest on that i'm joined by senior justice correspondent evan perez. evan, explain what this relates to. >> reporter: well, anderson,

michael sussman was a lawyer who worked with a law firm that represented hillary clinton's 2016 campaign, and he is charged now by john durham, the special counsel appointed under bill barr, he is charged with lying to the fbi in a meeting that occurred in september, september 19th of 2016. it is at that meeting that he turned over a thumb drive that contained information that allegedly showed some type of sure repetitious communications going on between computer servers at trump tower, trump organization, and a russian bank known as alpha bank. now, the fbi looked into this, investigated. it couldn't figure out really much about it and what the importance of that was, but all of that now has resulted in these charges against sussman. according to the special counsel john durham who we believe is

wrapping up his investigation, this is something that was material enough that caused the fbi to dedicate resources to it, and that's why he's bringing these charges. we have a statement from sussman's lawyer who says -- lawyers who say that this is politics, not facts, that this is an investigation that durham was carrying out essentially, trying to pursue a conspiracy theory, anderson. >> so just to be clear, because this seems like kind of a blast from the past, this whole durham probe. we haven't heard much about it of late. >> right. >> just to remind people, this was set up under the former administration, and the former president had promoted this as though there was going to be some big, huge reveal before the election that would be a game changer. bill barr, the attorney general at the time, was involved in the investigation. this investigation has gone on now for a long time. i don't know if it is as long as the mueller investigation was, but it certainly seems pretty long, and they've only brought this as the second of two

charges, right? >> reporter: right, anderson. the investigation that john durham began, this is, again, what bill barr brought him in to do, which was, you know, essentially a look into the trump russia investigation. here we are more than two years later, the investigation of the investigation has gone on longer than the mueller investigation. if you want to keep count, mueller brought charges against 34 people and three companies and, as you pointed out, this is only the second person that has been charged by durham's investigation. the other one was a former fbi lawyer who similarly pleaded guilty -- or he was charged with making false statements. you know, again, similar situation. he pleaded guilty in that charge. yeah, your point is exactly right. the fbi -- i'm sorry. the former attorney general, bill barr, and the president kept promising that there was going to be some big reveal.

he looked into the intelligence community, whether there was some wrongdoing there. trump kept saying that there were going to be charges against jim comey and other officials. none of that has happened, and it appears that the durham investigation was more of a dud, not nearly what bill barr and trump promised his supporters. >> you said the investigation seems to be wrapping up. do you have a timeline exactly? >> reporter: we don't. we don't, but we are told by sources that he has begun to wrap up his investigation. at the end of this, anderson, he is expected to produce a report to merrick garland, the current attorney general, and at that point they can make a decision to release some version of that report. >> all right. evan perez, i appreciate it. want to get perspective from our senior law enforcement analyst andrew mccabe, former fbi deputy director. andrew, what does it say that the durham probe, which according to the evidence lasted longer than the actual mueller probe, has this two charges? how serious are they and what do you make of it?

>> you know, anderson, look, let's frame this the way it really is, right. this is an investigation that was born of politics. former attorney general bill barr, not satisfied with the half dozen or so other entities that investigated why and how we opened the case we did to uncover whether or not the trump campaign was colluding with russia, unhappy with the results of all of those, handpicked john durham as his investigator and they started over again. they traveled the globe together. they talked to every foreign intelligence agency, they talked to cia people, fbi people, and here we are with this indictment of an attorney who voluntarily brought information to the fbi and is now alleged to have misrepresented to the bureau whether or not he was representing a client. i just feel like we've ended in a very political place similar to where we began. >> so in terms of this attorney who was indicted on charges of

lying at a september 2016 meeting with an fbi general counsel, james baker, you were with the fbi at the time. i mean are these charges concerning to you? >> well, i should say i don't know michael sussman. i don't believe i have ever even met him. i was aware of the information that came -- i was aware at the time that information had come to the fbi about this, these allegations about this alpha bank computer connection to possibly the trump organization. so that is what it is. i don't think that's the subject of this indictment though. what concerns me about this indictment is many, many people bring information to the fbi every single day, right. and oftentimes that information is inaccurate or maybe it is not productive, and sometimes it comes to us, you know, for some ulterior motive. you know, people call in the tip line, maybe they're angry with their neighbor so they send in information to make others look bad or to try to initiate

investigations. that's not good when it happens but it happens a lot. i have never seen someone indicted under circumstances like this, which really raises the question as to what is really behind their interest in mr. sussman. is it the fact that he concealed who he was representing or is it the fact that he can somehow be connected tangentially to hillary clinton? i don't know. i guess we'll find out as it goes forward. >> do you think any more charges will come before the probe officially ends? >> you know, i have absolutely no idea. i don't know what durham has been doing or what he has in store. i'm sure we will see a report at some point because i think the special counsel statute requires that he submit a report to the attorney general. so that will be interesting to read, but the whole thing is a little strange. >> just finally i want to ask you about the department of homeland security warning today about the potential from violence from people involved or opposed to what is being called the so-called justice for j-6

rally planned for saturday. they're talking as if the people being prosecuted for being involved and entering the capitol, being involved in violence and just even entering the capitol illegally are somehow political prisoners. from a law enforcement perspective, i imagine one has to prepare for the worst even though it seems like this probably will not be a hugely attended event. >> that's absolutely right. you know, law enforcement leaders have to prevent acts of terror, have to prevent acts of chaos and violence from happening. so we know, anderson, just over the last few weeks we've had two separate instances of lone-wolf typo fenders who have shown up at the capitol, one who threatened to set off a bomb, another a white supremacist arrested a few days ago. so we know there's a population of extremists out there who still see the capitol and lawmakers and government as a

viable target. so with the intelligence that dhs has access to and the fbi has access to, i think they're taking the appropriate measures. are they erring on the side of caution? let's hope so. if the rally goes off without a hitch, that's terrific, but at least we are prepared if it goes south. >> andrew mccabe, thanks for your time. appreciate it. >> thanks, anderson. tonight we will have house speaker nancy pelosi's response to new reporting from bob woodward and acosta about her phone call with milley. plus two reporters that know the president well. later, new development in the justice department against texas and its law banning abortions after about six weeks.

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woodward and "washington post" kol leak costa. they talk about a phone call between speaker pelosi and mark milley. so according to a transcript of the call the authors say they obtained milley tried to reassure speaker pelosi nuclear weapons were safe. speaker pelosi according to their reporting worried the former president might use them on an attack on a foreign country to forestall his exit. today the speaker was asked about that reporting. >> it wasn't a question of cutting him out of a chain of command. it was a question of what the checks and balances were on that chain of command. so you are seeing some things that i can't attest to, confirm or deny some of what is being said because it all came out since i've been here. but it is true that there was very grievous concern, not just among house democrats or senate democrats, but among those responsible for our national security, that a finger on the

button, war with a country, invasion, anything to take attention away from the fact we were having a peaceful transfer. >> joining us now "the washington post" carol leonnig khouw author of "i alone can fixes." and michael d'antonio, khouw author of "the shadow president." you have a lot of reporting in your book about general milley's concerns about the former president, he met with the general chiefs about how to handle any orders they feared could come from the commander in chief. what do you make of the new reporting? >> you know, anderson, i think it pulls back an important layer of the onion. these are, i have to say in all candor, these are friends and colleagues of mine, bob woodward and bob costa, and i think their book has a lot of interesting new material. i think this tells us, you know, exactly what pelosi was describing just then in london, the grievous concern was not just some democrats, as speaker

pelosi and as we reported at the time, said to milley, you know, you know the president is not stable, you know he's not stable, right? what are you doing about it? i think this gives you more detail about how much milley took her seriously, how much he himself was worried not about somebody pushing the nuclear button but just wanting to button -- batten down the hatches, make sure everybody in the chain of command understood how this was going to happen, what were the rules of the road, and how are they going to make sure that those rules were followed even with a president who was behaving in a, you know, let's f let's face it, an unhinged way after the election and much more dramatically after january 6th. >> michael, looking at the new general milley reporting, you said the former president has a way of corrupting those around him, making them -- at least attempting to make them into khouw conspirators. it is something james comey talked about sensing the president was trying to do with

him. general milley reportedly learned that in the now clearing of protesters from lafayette square, which clearly he regretted badly. >> well, you could see in his demoo demeanor and months in the weeks after that lafayette park incident that he had been burned, but he is also obviously a very strong person who understood his own power, and he was not going to get sucked in as so many people did with donald trump, into this frame of being a co-con sspirator. a lot of people were corrupted by the former president because they did one thing that aligned them with his interests and his corrupt interest and felt that they couldn't self-correct. obviously general milley self-corrected, but i also want to amplify what carol said about the ongoing revelations, the fact that all of this is sort of

confirming what people feared and often experienced around the president, and we know that many people were concerned that the military do the right thing, that someone like general milley stand up and secure the chain of decisionmaking so that something untoward couldn't happen. >> yeah. >> and the fact that it came about i think is testament to the president's temperament. >> yeah. you know, carol, what is so fascinating is for all of the talk about, you know, fake news in the former administration, all of the reporting, the deep reporting that has gone on subsequently and has come out, it is not as if there's this -- like your book is an outlieer or woodward's book is an outlier. they are, as you said, kind of matching each other from different sources and different people, and the more people reporters have talked to and who are now willing to come forward and talk, you realize it was way

worse than, you know, we knew at the time. we knew it was, you know, a clown car going on and possibly going off the cliff, but i mean it is -- it is extraordinary to see this reporting by you and so many others. woodward and costa almost report on the former president's mental faculties or concerns by general milley that the president was in, quote, serious mental decline which tracks what some of your own reporting that chief of staff meadows was concerned about the president following the election. >> i think your word choice is perfect, extraordinary. i'm a hard-bitten reporter. phil rucker and i, my colleague, we thought in real-time we were capturing how dramatic these moments were in the fall of 2020, a president who in the middle of the night rejected the election results of one of the most carefully watched elections. you know, the most secure, careful monitored -- >> one of the most successful election in which overwhelming turnout on both sides. i mean incredible.

>> correct. plus, you can't lose an election if the republican senator down field from you won so well, it is hard to say it was rigid. be that as it may, kpextraordiny is the right word. on the mental decline issue, we are not psychologists at the washington reporting desk, but it is clear to me that so many people, including people closest to the president, some of his most ardent supporters were genuinely fearful about his state of mind, whether it meant mental decline or unhinged or that meant willing to do anything, they were fearful of it. meadows confided as we reported in our book that he thought the president was in a bad way and everybody just needed to simmer down and try to keep him calm. that's not really how you want to be talking about a president who as pelosi was worried has his finger on the button.

what milley kept trying to tell her over and over again was we've got a process, don't worry, he can't just walk into a room and push it. there is a process. he has to come through me first. milley is, as you know, legal by li because you have studied this, he is the person who gives the president his best military advice and no order can be given without milley knowing it. so he's able and afforded that opportunity. i think that's really what was going on here. just so many levels of fear. democrats, pentagon, and even, again, as i said, some of the closest people to the president, some of his biggest supporters. >> michael, turning to vice president mike pence, you co-wrote a biography about him. you know, there's reporting now in the woodward book that he may not so much have been a defender of the constitution on january 6th but was really looking for a way to try to do something of the former president's billing up until really the last moment, and according to this book, you

know, it is dan kwquayle who is telling him, you don't have any options. >> well, thanks goodness there was another hoosier vice president for mike pence to consult. you know, this actually really confirms what we learned about mike pence when we were doing the biography of him. he is a person who is profoundly ambitious. he's always wanted to be president himself, and i think that he saw his pathway to the presidency being with donald trump, and to the very last he really wanted to do the president's bidding. he wanted to enable this semi coup i guess you would call it of overturning the election, and when he couldn't find a way to do it he at last capitulated and did the right thing. it was later framed as this idea that mike pence saved democracy. well, in fact, if he did save

democracy it was with great reluctance. >> yeah. mich michael d'antonio, carol leonnig, thank you very much. regarding texas as abortion ban, here is what happened yesterday when we tried to talked to a florida medical provider who wrote trying to get kids out of mask mandates. see what happened. my principal is going down. sofi is a place where you can start to tackle those money goals today. ♪ new customers get our best deals on all smartphones. that's right. but what if i'm already a customer? oh, no problem. hey, cam...? ah, same deal! yeah, it's kind of our thing. huh, that's a great deal... what if i'm new to at&t? cam, can you...? hey...but what about for existing customers? same deal. it's the same deal. is he ok? it's not complicated. with at&t, everyone gets our best deals on every smartphone.

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breaking news. the federal judge overseeing the justice department legal challenge to texas's abortion ban denied the request he move up a hearing in the case. cnn legal analyst jeffrey toobin joins us now. what does that mean? >> reporter: well, anderson, you have to understand. i think people have to understand just how bizarre and really outrageous the situation is. texas passes a law that everyone including texas acknowledges is contrary to supreme court precedent. it is unconstitutional under the law as it exists now. but here it is several weeks later and no judge has yet ruled on the merits of this case, and yet again this judge seems in no hurry to do so. you know, the justice department asked for september 21st. he said october 1st for this hearing, but it is only the hearing. who knows when he is actually going to rule. >> and the rational i read was, i think it said something to the

effect of, you know, there were serious legal questions involved in this and it deserves time to consider them. >> well, and this is why the fault here really is with the five justices of the supreme court. what the district judge here is basically repeating what the five justices who refused to issue the stay on this law said, which is basically, you know, this is complicated. let's take some time. it is not that complicated. everyone acknowledges, even texas acknowledges that this law is contrary to supreme court pr precedent on abortion, but they're doing it anyway. they've set up this procedure where it is not the state enforcing it, but you have private individuals enforcing it. but the fact is abortion is effectively illegal in texas now and no judge has done anything about it. >> so you mentioned this hearing october 1st. what happens at the hearing? >> well, this is when the

justice department as well as several other plaintiffs, abortion providers, individuals in texas, will ask the judge finally, enjoin this law. it is contrary to supreme court precedent. that's the request. it seems like a fairly straightforward thing when everyone acknowledges this law is contrary to supreme court precedent, but no court has acted yet. this judge, who has at least been somewhat sympathetic to the plaintiffs in the past, is going to be followed by the fifth circuit, which is very conservative, and the five justices on the supreme court. so, you know, it looks like this texas law is going to stay on the books for some time if not forever given the way this law -- the lawsuit is going. >> yeah. jeff toobin, i appreciate it. thanks. we will continue to follow it. now to covid and a story we first reported last night. a chiropractor named dan bush signed more than 100 medical exemptions for students who wished to opt out of wearing

masks in sarasota county schools. here is what happened when randi kaye tried to talk to him about it. >> reporter: how are you? randi kaye with cnn. >> yeah, i'm not interested. >> reporter: i just want to ask you about the exemption forms that you are signing. >> i already -- >> reporter: i know. >> we already made a statement. >> reporter: well, why won't you talk to us about it? are these -- are you examining each and every child that you are writing exemption forms for. >> this wasn't about me. this was about parents' freedoms. >> reporter: about parents' freedom? >> yeah. >> reporter: are you examining each and every child, are you putting child's lives at risks which signing these forms? why won't you answer the question about it? >> because i don't need to. >> reporter: how do you feel about them not accepting your exemption forms? >> well, today bush agreed to sit down with randi for an interview. she joins us from sarasota. randi, how did it go? >> reporter: well, anderson, we stayed in sarasota overnight hoping to get an interview with the chiropractor today. i reached out early this morning

to his attorney, they thought about it and then got back to me and agreed to sit down with me. we met at his lawyers office and i was able to ask the questions i wanted to ask yesterday. remember, sarasota schools changed their pacific policy in part because of this guy. now chiropractors can no longer sign the mask medical exemption forms so he can no longer sign those forms. we talked about that today and much more. >> reporter: why were you signing these forms? why were you exempting children? >> because as a parent i felt like they took my rights away, and it upset me. so find out that i wasn't alone. many parents felt the same way. they had their rights infringed upon, so, you know, they were upset as well. >> reporter: you said this was about freedom? >> it is a parental right to be able to choose these things. it is florida law. >> reporter: these choices and freedom that you talk about -- >> yes. >> reporter: -- they are putting people in danger, and the

statistics show that. so how do you feel about that? >> so keep in mind, i'm not making the decision on how a parent should send their child to school. for those kids that qualified or those teachers and administration that qualified, this is nothing more than a permission slip to give them their choice on how they feel they should go to school. >> reporter: but if the freedom is putting people in grave danger, why grant them that freedom? >> the sarasota county school board made a policy,. in that policy i did what was within my legal right as a licensed health care provider in the state of florida. i did -- i played by the rules. >> reporter: you say you are pro freedom, but can't you be pro freedom and medically irresponsible at the same time? >> i'm sure somebody could be, but do i feel that i was? absolutely not.

>> reporter: you don't feel you are medically responsible at all? >> not at all. >> reporter: i'm not asking you what you discussed with a child, i'm not asking for names, i'm just curious if you examined a child. >> yeah, but it is -- the quality of questions will depend on the age of the child. >> reporter: have you ever signed an exemption form without speaking to a parent about that child? >> no. heck, no. >> reporter: have you ever signed an exemption form without meeting with the child? >> no. >> reporter: never? >> no. >> reporter: so every child that got an exemption form you met with? >> every one i have done, yes. >> reporter: that's the 100 and something. >> 180, roughly. >> reporter: how many do you think were children? >> probably 140. >> reporter: but we spoke with a man who did not want to be identified who told us on august 27th he got two forms for his children at dan bush's office. he said he never met with bush nor did his two children. we showed bush the man's form. >> reporter: take a look at this form. >> uh-huh. >> reporter: see, is that your signature at the bottom. >> it looks like it, yes. >> reporter: so you're saying it is a fake form? >> i think somebody made copies of it, yes. >> reporter: can you tell me

today there are no pre-signed forms, blank forms being handed out at your office or being handed out? >> the first dozen people i met with early on all had to come back and get new forms. i had already examined those people. i did not need to reexamine those people. so there were forms where we had them ready for those parents, okay, but it wasn't somebody coming in willy-nilly without meeting us and being given an exemption form. >> reporter: are you the only doctor in your practice who was signing these exemption forms? >> no, ma'am. no, ma'am. we had three doctors in my practice, and then several other doctors, chiropractors within the county that were also doing them. i know of at least nine other docs in this community that did them and, again, they did them last year as well. >> reporter: the american academy of pieediatrics said th week there's been nearly 240% increase in cases among children and children now account for 29% of all cases reported nationwide. so when you weigh freedom

against that, how do you do that? i mean what is more important? >> the freedom to choose because i am not going to live in fear. it is just not me. >> reporter: even if it is putting others at risk? >> again, i'm not making that decision for them. i'm giving them permission to make that decision for themselves or their own family. >> reporter: but you are making it easier for them. so just to be clear, do you -- do you believe that masks help stop the spread? >> yeah, they help. yeah. >> so that's interesting. i mean he says they do help stop the spread. did you ask what he thinks about the vaccine? >> reporter: i did, anderson. in fact, he had covid back in december. he told me his whole family had covid around christmas time. he said that his wife and his daughter got really, really sick. those were his word. he said now half his family is vaccinated but, anderson, he is not and he does not plan to get the vaccine. he said that he believes his natural immunity is enough to protect him. we know that the cdc does not agree with that. they think even if you have had

covid you should now get the vaccine. he also says that the vaccine is not in his best interests, and if he does get covid again he will accept the consequences, anderson >> all right. randi, thanks very much. appreciate it. still ahead, what can democrats across the country learn from governor newsom's win in the california recall election? we talk to james carville next. debt free! thanks to sofi. ♪

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this week's recall election in california was watched nationwide by many who saw it as perhaps a glimpse into the mind of the electorate before mid-term elections which will determine which party controls congress. democratic governor newsom beat the gop-led effort to oust him by turning the race into a national battle for his party's values and against trumpism. we want to look at what that strategy may tell democrats about how they might want to run in the future. for that we turn to a man who has run more than a few democratic campaigns, james cargill. is there anything you have seen that democrats should take into elections around the country? >> one of the things you can see again, they can put trump on the ballot, and they were smart. they politicized the recall effort and called it a republican effort in a state that was heavily democratic. i think they ran a highly

competent strategy. it looks like to me, i will wait for it to come in, the electorate looked more 2018ish than 2014 or 2010. that's the thing that worries democrats, if we get a distorted turnout like 2010 or 2004. so far it has not happened. in georgia in '92 we lost a run-off after president clinton one. we run two run-offs in georgia in 2021 actually. we outperformed in mexico. the turnout in virginia primaries were high. the race people will be looking at was virginia governor. this certainly was not bad news for democrats. i don't think it is definitive outcome for 2022. it is certainly not bad. >> it seems like in virginia terry mcauliffe is already painting, you know, his opponent as, you know, a trumpian. is that the -- i mean is that the way forward for democrats in races from here on? >> it is part of it, absolutely because that excites democrats. i mean the republicans are white

hot, and we know that. you know, it worked in california to some extend and they're debating right now and youngkin debating down in southwest virginia. it will be interesting, i can't wait to read and see what the fault lines were. i suspect they might run against trump, might even run against florida a little bit. >> for republicans it is a challenge because you can't win a primary in the republican party unless you show complete loyalty and fealty to the former president. the question is can you then win in a general. >> right. and there's a huge magnetic pull and democrats know that. of course, youngkin had to say all kinds of things when he was trying to win his party's nomination. well, you take it and you run again. look, the republicans ran against jimmy carter in 1992. i mean this is not some new creative strategy that democrats have come up with. there's nothing unique about it.

you know, if you have an unpopular guy, and, you know, how long did they run against, you know, nancy pelosi? that's been done in american politics forever. it is going to continue to be done. people are not looking for a three-point plan or a five-point plan and that nonsense. you have to let people know what is at stake here. i think so far it has worked pretty well, but it is -- you know, there's a lot of football between now and next november. >> you have been critical of a faction of the democratic party and their wokeness. based on the campaign that newsom ran painting larry elder as a symbol of trumpism, looking at that race do you still think that political wokeness is a real concern for democrats and what's the future on that? >> well, we haven't heard, you know, we didn't hear any of that out of california. i don't hear any of that in virginia. none of this is defund the police, latinx.

you know, when i did that piece in vox the reaction i got was almost 97% positive. i think i have had woke people tell me they're tired of being woke, it is just too hard. people want to get along with each other. they want to, you know, be friends with each other, and, you know, people are much more interested in their lives and passing, you know, good, sound laws that do good things as opposed to trying to change dictionaries. so, yeah, i think that my message was heard and i don't seem like certainly the guy that won in new york is anything but woke. >> yeah. well, that's -- yeah. >> go ahead. >> no, no. >> just be clear. the things that the woke people want, i want 85% of that. i'm in vigorous agreement with most of the things that they want, but i think if you want to get things done you have to talk the language that people talk, not the language they're talking in faculty lounge in some expensive college. >> yeah. james carville, it is always great to talk to you.

i appreciate you okay. my best to your family. >> thank you, anderson. good to see you. appreciate it. >> you take care. >> absolutely. you bet. up next, what happened in court when a prominent south carolina attorney acharcharged botched assisted-suicide schem

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south carolina attorney alex murdoch is out of jail after he made his first court appearance on charges related to a botched assisted suicide. >> alex murdoch broke down in tears. the once powerful and wealthy attorney, his lawyers say, is no longer a man of means. >> he has fallen from grace. >> reporter: a warrant for his arrest detailed the botched murder atexttempt. he arrived for a former client

to shoot and kill him. it failed because the shot wasn't fatal. smith has been charged with assisted suicide, assault and battery, pointing and presenting a firearm, insurance fraud and conspiracy to commit insurance fraud. he has entered a plea and has asked for a court appointed attorney. another twist. south carolina law enforcement division announcing the opening of another investigation involving the murdochs. the 2018 death of the family's longtime housekeeper who died in what was described as a trip and fall accident on the murdoch property. >> he told the story that she had tripped and fell down the stairs over his dogs. they trusted him. >> reporter: her death was said, due to natural causes. the coroner told investigators in a letter, the decedent's death was not reported to the cor coroner, nor was an autopsy

performed. the manner of death was ruled natural, which is inconsistent with injures sustained in a trip and fall. the family says they reached a partial settlement with murdoch for wrongful death. they say they never received the money they say they were due. the family attorney. >> he hand walked them to his best friend and college roommate to bring a lawsuit against himself on behalf of the estate. as a lawyer 33 years, i never heard where you encourage something and take them to a lawyer you hand pick and have that lawyer bring claims against you. >> reporter: this new development as he was struggling with the unsolved murders of his wife and son in june. allegations that he stole money from his family's law firm and his own admission of a decade's long opioid addiction. all of this playing out in a

very public downfall. >> martin joins us from south carolina. what's the next step to try to untangle all of these threads? >> yeah. be foolish to guess what's next. look at all the investigations. the insurance fraud investigation. that continues. the investigation into the murders of his wife and son. they have named no suspects, no motive. you have the investigation into the death of the housekeeper. the coroner has questions. the investigation into the millions of dollars allegedly taken from his law field. then the didn't of steven smith found dead in the middle of the night in the middle of the road. there was something while investigating the mother and son murder that has them wanting to open another investigation into the death of smith. i can't tell you what's coming next. i can only tell you, there is more to come. >> appreciate it. thank you. still to come, do americans

need a covid vaccine booster shot or not? there are different views as you probably know. it's confusing. a key fda meeting about it on friday. we will talk it over with dr. gupta and others next. a pre-set trade strategy in seconds. so we gave 'em thinkorswim web. because platforms this innovative, aren't just made for traders - they're made by them. thinkorswim trading. from td ameritrade.

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