what happened on january 6th. it's a rally in support of those now being prosecuted for their roles in the attack. and it seeks to portray many of those being prosecuted as somehow political prisoners. according to information obtained by cnn, the department of homeland security is warning about the potential of violence, not just on the day of this rally but the day before, as well which is tomorrow. these warnings, based on threats on social media. now, there is reportedly no indication of a specific or credible plot associated with the event. and the department of homeland security has said it expects far fewer participants than during the january-6th rally. however, the new information cnn obtained also warns about the potential for so-called lone wolves to maybe attempt something. well today, fencing went up to protect the capitol. the pentagon says they have already requested assistance from the d.c. national guard. the individuals supporting this rally are supporters of the former president. some are propagators of his lie about voter fraud. the former president is also pushing this notion that those involved in the capitol riot are

being persecuted. he writes, quote, our hearts and minds are with the people being persecuted so unfairly related to the january 6th protest concerning the rigged presi presidential election. by the way, that protest he is talking about is not why people are being prosecuted. they are being prosecuted for breaking the law, taking part in an attack on the capitol. an attack in which more than 100 law enforcement officers were injured. officer brian sicknick died the day after being attacked during the riot. four officers died by suicide in the aftermath. one capitol police officer said he and fellow officers were punched, kicked, shoved, sprayed with chemical irritants and even blinded with eye-damaging lasers. for the record, currently, 608 defendants have been charged. 78, already, have pleaded guilty. six defendants have been sentenced. three of them to prison. so let's start with the congressional correspondent ryan nobles at the site of that fencing near the capitol. so in light of this warning from department of homeland security, what else are we seeing in terms of security preparations ahead of saturday's rally? because it -- it certainly doesn't -- i mean, there is

questions about how many people may actually even show up to this thing. >> well, anderson, there is no doubt that the security posture here at the capitol is like nothing we've seen since the days after the january-6th riot. it's certainly way more than what was up here right before that riot. as you mentioned, there's now fencing wrapped all around the capitol complex. capitol police have asked for an increased presence of their own force. basically, every capitol police officer is going to expected to be up here this weekend. they have also asked for reinforcements from local police departments in washington, d.c. and northern virginia and suburban maryland and they have even asked the national guard to be on standby. it is clear that they are not taking anything for granted. they are certainly preparing for a worst-case scenario. i mean, there is really no reason to believe that the situation on saturday could spiral out of control like we saw on january 6th. there won't be nearly as many

people here. the dynamics are much different. congress isn't even in session but there is enough. and what they are hearing in online chatter and just the overall mood of the type of protestor that's going to be here on saturday that has driven them to take the precautions that they have this weekend. >> so, the president now clearly sees kind of a little groundswell among far-right republicans in support of people who are being prosecuted. having their day in court. and the president's glommed onto that in his statement today. but it also seems that he's not sure exactly whether or not to be fully behind this rally or not. saying it -- it could be kind of a setup. there is other chatter among, you know, some far-right groups saying it could be a false-flag operation. it seems like the kind of conspiracy theories are, like, falling in on themselves now. >> yeah. you're exactly right, anderson. and i think it's also pretty startling or not startling but it's something worth pointing out that in that statement that the president -- former president issued today. he doesn't even mention, specifically, this rally this weekend.

he just talks more broadly about his support for those that have been arrested and are currently in prison as a result of what happened on january 6th. but i think the important part to talk about as it relates to the former president's role in all of this is -- is that the misinformation that he continues to peddle, not just with the statement that he put out today but just in general. you know, putting out statements almost every single day still claiming that the 2020 election was rigged. warning that future elections could possibly be rigged. and just continuing to inflame the passions of many of his supporters who are just, frankly, misinformed about what happened in november. and then, what happened in january. that's what has law enforcement officials concerned because it is that anger, that angst that is driving many of these protestors. and it's what could lead them to doing something that could hurt other people or just hurt -- you know, create an event that spirals out of control here on saturday. >> ryan nobles, i appreciate it. thanks. turn now to another breaking news story involving the justice department. a new indictment stemming from

that special probe begun under the previous administration into the fbi's investigation into the former president. for the latest on that, i am joined by our senior justice correspondent, evan perez. so, evan, explain what this relates to. >> well, anderson, michael sussman was a lawyer who worked for the law firm that represented hillary clinton's 2016 campaign. and he is charged now by john durham, the special counsel that was appointed under bill barr -- he is charged with lying to the fbi in a meeting that occurred in september. september 19th of 2016. it is at that meeting that he turned over a thumb-drive that contained information that allegedly showed some type of surreptitious communications going on between a -- computer servers at trump tower, trump organization, and a russian bank known as alpha bank. now, the fbi looked into this, investigated. couldn't figure out really much about it and what -- what it --

what the importance of that was. but all of that now has resulted in these charges. against sussman. according to the special counsel, john durham, who we believe is wrapping up his investigation, this is something that was material enough that caused the fbi to dedicate resources to it. and that's why he's bringing these charges. we have a statement from sussman's lawyer who says -- lawyers -- who says -- who say that this is politics, not facts. that this is an investigation that durham was carrying out essentially trying to pursue a conspiracy theory, anderson. >> just to be clear, because this seems like kind of a blast from the past. this whole durham probe, we really haven't heard much about it of late. just to remind people, this was set up under the former administration and the former president had promoted this as though there was going to be some big, huge reveal before the election that would be a game-changer. bill barr, the attorney general at the time, was involved in the investigation.

this investigation's gone on now for a long time. i don't know if it's as long as the mueller investigation was but it certainly seems pretty long. and they've only brought this as the second of two charges, right? >> right, anderson. the investigation that john durham began -- this is, again, this is what bill barr brought him in to do which was, you know, essentially look into the trump-russia investigation. and here we are more than two years later, the investigation of the investigation has gone on longer than the mueller investigation. and if you want to keep count, mueller brought charges against 34 people and three companies. and as you pointed out, this is only the second person that has been charged by durham's investigation. the other one was a former-fbi lawyer who, similarly, pleaded guilty or he was charged with -- um -- making false statements. you know, again, similar -- similar situation. he pleaded guilty in that charge.

um, and, yeah, you -- your point is exactly right. the fbi -- i'm sorry, the former-attorney general, bill barr, and the president kept promising that they were -- there was going to be some big reveal. he looked into the intelligence community. whether there was some wrongdoing there. trump kept saying that there were going to be charges against jim comey and other officials. none of that has happened. and it appears that the durham investigation was more of a dud, not nearly what bill barr and trump promised his supporters. >> and you said the investigation seems to be wrapping up. do you have a timeline exactly? >> we don't. we don't. but we're told by sources that he has begun to wrap up his investigation. at the end of this, anderson, he is expected to produce a report to merrick garland, the new -- the current-attorney general. and at that point, they can make a decision as to -- to -- to release some version of that report. >> all right. evan perez, appreciate it. want to get some perspective now from our senior law enforcement analyst, andrew mccabe.

former-deputy -- fbi deputy director. so, andrew, what does it say that i mean the durham probe which, i mean, according to evan, has lasted longer than the actual mueller probe, how serious are they? and what do you make of it? >> you know, anderson, look. let's -- let's -- let's frame this the way it really is, right? this is an investigation that was born of politics. um, former-attorney general barr, not satisfied with the half-dozen-or-so other entities that investigated why and how we opened the case we did to discover -- to uncover whether or not the trump campaign was colluding with russia. unhappy with the results of all those, handpicked john durham as his investigate squr they started over again. they traveled the globe together. they talked to every foreign intelligence agency. they talked to cia people, fbi people. and here we are with this indictment of an attorney who voluntarily brought information to the fbi.

and is now alleged to have misrepresented to the bureau whether or not he was representing a client. i -- i just feel like we've ended in a very political place, similar to where we began. >> so, in -- in terms of this attorney who was indicted on charges of lying at a september, 2016, meeting with then-fbi general counsel james baker. you were at fbi at the time. i mean, are these charges concerning to you? >> well, i -- i should say, i don't know michael sussman. i don't believe i've ever even met him. i was aware of the information that came -- i was aware at the time that information had come to the fbi about these -- these allegations of connection to alpha bank to possibly the trump organization. so that is what it is. i don't think that is the subject of this indictment, though. what concerns me about this indictment is many, many people bring information to the fbi every single day. right? and oftentimes, that information is inaccurate or maybe it's not productive.

and sometimes, it comes to us, you know, for some ulterior motive. you know, people calling the tip line. maybe, they are angry with their neighbor so they send in some information to make -- make others look bad or to try to initiate investigations. that's not good when it happens but it happens a lot and i've never seen someone indicted under circumstances like this. um -- which just -- the question as to what is really behind their interest in mr. sussman? is it the fact that he concealed who he was representing? or is it the fact that he can somehow be connected, tangentially, to hillary clinton? i don't know. i guess, we will find out as this goes forward. >> do you think any more charges will come before this probe officially ends? >> you know, i -- i have absolutely no idea. i don't know what -- um -- what durham has been doing or what he has in store. i'm sure that we will see a report at some point because i think the special counsel statute requires that he submit a report to the attorney

general. um, so that will be interesting to read. but the whole thing is a little strange. >> just finally, i want to ask you about this department of homeland security warning today about potential -- the potential for violence from people involved or opposed to the -- what's being called the so-called justice for j6 rally planned for saturday. they are talking as if the people being prosecuted for being involved and -- and entering the capitol, being involved in violence and just even entering the capitol illegally are somehow political prisoners. the -- from a law enforcement perspective, i imagine one has to prepare for the worst even though it seems like this probably will not be a hugely attended event. >> that's absolutely right. you know, law enforcement leaders have to prevent acts of terror. have to prevent acts of chaos. and -- and -- and violence from happening. and so, we know, anderson, just over the last few weeks, we have had two separate instances of lone-wolf type offenders who have shown up at the capitol.

one of whom threatened to set off a bomb. another of whom, white sp supremacist who was arrested just a few days ago. we know there is a population of extremists out there who still see the capitol and lawmakers and government as a -- as a viable target. and so, with the intelligence that dhs has access to and the fbi has access to, i think they're taking the appropriate measures. are they erring on the side of caution? let's hope so. if the rally goes off without a hitch, that's terrific but at least we were prepared if -- if it goes south. >> yeah. andrew mccabe, thanks for your time. appreciate it. >> thanks anderson. still to come tonight. the final days of the former president's administration. we will have house speaker nancy pelosi's response to new reporting from bob woodward and robert costa about that phone call between her and general mark milley. her concern over the former president's mental stability and control of the country's nuclear weapons. plus, two reporters who know the former president very well. and later, a new development in the justice department's lawsuit against texas and its law banning abortions after

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house speaker nancy pelosi has now responded to reporting in the new book "peril" from bob woodward and his "washington post" colleague robert costa. in it, they write about a phone call between speaker pelosi and general mark milley. then and now chairman of joint chiefs of staff. the authors say they obtained, milley tried to reassure speaker pelosi that nuclear weapons were safe. speaker pelosi, according to the reporting, worried that the former president might use them in an attack on another country to forestall his exit. well today, the speaker was in l london was asked about that new reporting. >> the question of cutting him out of the chain of command. it was a question of what the checks and balances were on that chain of command. so, you are seeing some things i can't attest to, confirm, or deny some of what is being said because it all came out since i have been here. but it is true that there was very grievous concern not just

among house democrats or senate democrats but among those responsible for our national security. that a finger on the button, with the country, an invasion, anything to -- to take attention away from the threat that we were having a peaceful transfer. >> co-author of "i alone can fix it" about the former president's final year in office. and michael d'antonio, biographer of the former president. so, you have got a lot of reporting in your book about general milley's concerns about the former president. he actually met with the joint chiefs to plan how to handle any illegal orders they feared could come from the commander in chief. um, what do you make of this new reporting? >> you know, anderson, i think it pulls back an important layer of the in the of the onion. in all candor, i have to say these are friends and colleagues of mine, bob woodward and bob

costa and i think their book has a lot of really interesting new material. i think this tells us, you know, exactly what pelosi was describing just then in london. the grievous concern was not just some democrats as -- as speaker pelosi and as we reported at the time said to milley. you know, the president's not stable. you know he's not stable, right? what are you doing about it? i think this gives you more detail about how much milley took her seriously. how much he, himself, was worried not about somebody pushing the nuclear button but just wanting to batten down the hatches. make sure everybody in the chain of command understood how this was going to happen. what were the rules of the road? and how were they going to make sure that those rules were followed even with a president who was behaving in a, you know, let's face it, a pretty unhinged way after the election and much more dramatically after january 6th. >> michael, looking at this new general milley reporting.

i -- you have said that the former president kind of has a way of corrupting those around him. making them -- or attempting at least to make them into kind of co-conspirators. it is also something james comey talked about sensing the president was trying to do with him. general milley reportedly learned that lesson in the now infamous clearing of protestors in lafayette square which, clearly, he regretted badly. >> wiell, you could see in his demeanor in the weeks and months after that lafayette park incident that he had been burned. but he is also, obviously, a very strong person who understood his own power. and he was not going to get sucked in as so many people did with donald trump into this frame of being a co-conspirator. you know, a lot of people i think got corrupted by the former president because they did one thing that aligned them with his interests and his corrupt interest. and felt that they couldn't

self-correct. and obviously, general milley self-corrected. but i also want to amplify what carole said about the ongoing revelations. the fact that all of this is sort of confirming what people feared and often experienced around the president. and we know that -- um -- many people were concerned that the military do the right thing. that someone like general milley stand up, and secure the chain of decision making so that something untoward couldn't happen. and the fact that it came about, i think, is testament to the president's temperament. >> yeah. carole, what's so fascinating is for all the talk about fake news in the former administration, all the reporting, the daeep reporting that has gone on subsequently and has come out, it's not as if there's this -- like, your book is an outlier or woodward's book is an outlier. they are, as you said, kind of

matching each other from different sources and different people. and the more people reporters have talked to and who are now willing to come forward and talk, you realize it was way worse than -- than, you know, we knew at the time. i mean, we knew it was, you know, a clown car going on. and -- and possibly going off the cliff. by i mean, it -- it's extraordinary to see this reporting by you and so many others. woodward and costa also report on the former president's mental faculties or his concerns by general milley that the president was in, quote, serious mental decline which tracks with some of your own reporting that chief of staff mark meadows was concerned with the former president after the election. >> you know, i think your word choice is just perfect, anderson. extraordinary. i mean, i -- i'm a pretty hard-bitten reporter. phil rucker and i, my colleague, we thought in real-time we were capturing just how dramatic these moments were in the fall of 2020. a president who, in the middle of the night, rejected the election results of one of the

most carefully watched elections. you know, the most secure, careful -- >> one of the most successful elections in which overwhelming turnout on both sides. i mean, incredible. >> correct. correct. and plus, you can't really lose a presidential election if the republican senator just downfield from you won so well. it's kind of hard to say that it was rigged: but be that as it may, extraordinary is exactly the right word. and, you know, on the mental decline issue, we are not psychologists at the -- at "the washington post" reporting desk. but it is clear to me that so many people, including the people closest to the president, some of his most ardent supporters were genuinely fearful about his state of mind. whether, you know, that meant mental decline or whether that meant unhinged or whether that meant willing to do anything, they were fearful of it. and meadows confided as we reported in our book that he thought the president was in a bad way.

and everybody just needed to simmer down and try to keep him calm. that's not really how you want to be talking about a president who, as -- as pelosi was worried, has his finger on the button. what milley kept trying to tell her over and over again was we have got a process. don't worry. he can't just walk into a room and push it. there is a process. he has to come through me, first. milley is, as you know, legally, because you have studied this, he is the person who gives the president his best military advice. and no order can be given without milley knowing it. so he's able and afforded that opportunity. i think that's -- that's really what was going on here. just so many levels of fear -- um -- democrats, pentagon, and even, again, as i said, some of the closest people to the president. some of his biggest supporters. >> michael, turning to the vice

president mike pence. you co-wrote a biography about him. you know, there is this reporting now in the woodward book that -- that he may not so much have been a defender of the constitution on january 6th. but was really looking for a way to try to do something of the former president's billing up until really the last moment. and according to this book, you know, it's dan quail of all people who is telling him you don't have any options. >> well, thank goodness there was another hoosier vice president for -- for mike pence to consult. you know, this actually, really confirms what we learned about mike pence when we were doing the biography of him. he is a person who is profoundly ambitious. he's always wanted to be president, himself. and i think that he saw his pathway to the presidency being with donald trump. and to the very last, he really wanted to do the president's bidding. he wanted to enable this

semi-coup, i guess you would call it, of overturning the election. and when he couldn't find a way to do it, he, at last, capitulated and did the right thing. it was later framed as this idea that mike pence saved democracy. well, in fact, if he did save democracy, it was with great reluctance. >> yeah. michael d'antonio, carol leonnig, thank you so much. really appreciate it. up next, we have got breaking news on the legal battle surrounding texas's controversial abortion ban. , even when you're not working, so you can go from saving... to living. ♪ let's go ♪ print. come on! print! print! print! do you suffer from cartridge conniptions? be conniption-free, thanks to the cartridge-free epson ecotank printer. a ridiculous amount of ink! do i look like a money tree? the epson ecotank. just fill & chill.

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breaking news. the federal judge overseeing the justice department's legal challenge to texas's abortion ban denied the request that he move up a hearing in the case. cnn chief legal analyst, jeffrey toobin, joins us now. so, what does that mean? >> well, i mean, anderson, you have to understand -- i think people have to understand just how bizarre and -- and really outrageous the situation is. texas passes a law that everyone, including texas, acknowledges is contrary to supreme court precedent. it is -- it is unconstitutional under the law as it exists now. but here it is, several weeks later, and no judge has yet ruled on -- on the merits of this case. and yet again, this judge seems in no hurry to do so. you know, the -- the -- the -- the justice department asked for

september 21st. he said october 1st for this hearing but that's only the hearing. who knows when he is actually going to rule? >> and -- and the rationale i read was i think said something to the effect of, you know, there were serious legal questions involved in this and it deserves time to consider them. >> well, and -- and this is why the fault here really is with the five justices of the supreme court. what -- what the district judge here is -- is basically repeating, what the five justices who refused to issue the stay on this law said which is basically, you know, this is complicated. let's take some time. it's not that complicated. every one acknowledges -- even texas acknowledges -- that this law is contrary to supreme court precedent on abortion. and -- um -- but they're doing it, anyway. and they set up this procedure where it's not the state enforcing it but you have private individuals enforcing it. but the fact is abortion is

effectively illegal in texas now, and no judge has done anything about it. >> so, you mentioned this -- this hearing october 1st. what happens at the hearing? >> well, this is when the justice department as well as several other plaintiffs, abortion providers, individuals in texas will ask the judge, finally, enjoin this law. it is contrary to supreme court precedent. that's the request. it seems like a fairly straightforward thing when everyone acknowledges this law is -- is contrary to supreme court precedent. but no court has acted, yet. and this judge who has at least been somewhat sympathetic to the plaintiffs in the past is -- um -- is going to be followed by the fifth circuit which is very conservative and the five justices on the supreme court. so, you know, it -- it looks like -- um -- this texas law is gonna stay on the books for some time, if not forever, given the way this -- the lawsuit is going. >> yeah, jeff toobin, appreciate

it. thanks. we'll continue to follow it. now, to covid and a story we first reported last night. a chiropractor named dan bush signed more than 100 medical exemptions for students who wished to opt out of wearing masks in sarasota county schools. so here is what happened when randi kaye tried to talk to him about it yesterday. >> how are you? randi kaye with cnn. >> i'm not interested. >> i just want to ask you -- i want to ask you about the exemption forms that you were signing. i know. >> we already made a statement. >> reporter: well, why won't you talk to us about it? are -- are these -- are you examining each and every child that you are writing exemption forms for? >> this -- this wasn't about me. this was about parents' freedoms. >> reporter: about parents' freedoms? are you -- are you examining each and every -- are you putting children's lives at risk by signing these forms? why not? why won't you answer a question about it? >> because i don't need to. >> reporter: how do you feel about them not accepting your exemption forms? >> well today, bush agreed to sit down with randi for an interview. she joins us now from sarasota.

randi, how did it go? >> well, anderson, we stayed in sarasota overnight hoping to get an interview with that chiropractor today. so i reached out early-this morning to his attorney. they thought about it for a bit. then, they got back to me and agreed to sit down with me. so we met at his lawyer's office. and i was finally able to ask all the questions that i wanted to ask him yesterday. but remember, anderson, sarasota schools actually changed their mask exemption policy, in part because of this guy. so now, chiropractors can no longer sign those mask medical exemption forms. so he can no longer sign those forms. we talked about that today and much more. why were you signing these forms? why were you exempting children? >> because as a parent, i felt like they took my rights away. and -- and it upset me. so, find out that i wasn't alone. um, many parents felt the same way. they -- they had their rights infringed upon. so, you know, they were upset as

well. >> you said this was about freedom? >> it's a parental right to be able to choose these things. it's florida law. >> reporter: these choices and freedom that you talk about. they are putting people in danger. and the statistics show that. so how do you feel about that? >> so, keep in mind, i'm not making the decision on how a parent should send their child to school. for those kids that qualified or those teachers and administration that qualified, this is nothing more than a permission slip to give them their choice on how they feel they should go to school. >> reporter: but if the freedom is putting people in grave danger, why grant them that freedom? >> especially, the county school board made a policy. in that policy, i did with -- what was within my legal right as a licensed healthcare provider in the state of florida. i did -- i played by the rules.

>> reporter: you say you're pro-freedom, but can't you be pro-freedom and medically irresponsible, at the same time? >> sure, somebody could be but do i feel that i was? absolutely not. >> you don't feel you're medically irresponsible at all? >> not at all. >> i'm not asking what you discussed with a child. i'm not asking for names. i am just curious if you examined a child. >> yeah. but i mean, the quality of questions is going to be dependent on the age of the child. >> have you ever signed an exemption form without speaking to a parent about that child? >> heck no. >> have you ever signed an exemption form without meeting with the child? >> no. >> never? >> no. >> so every child that got an exemption form, you met with? >> every one that i have done, yes. >> and that's something hundred something? >> 180, roughly. >> and how many of those do you think were children? >> probably, 140 maybe? >> but we spoke with a man who did not want to be identified who told us, on august 27th, he got two forms for his children at dan bush's office. he said he never met with bush, nor did his two children.

we showed bush the man's form. take a look at this form and see is that your signature at the bottom? >> it looks like it, yes. >> so you are saying that's a fake form? >> i think somebody made copies of it, yes. >> can you tell me today, there are no presigned forms, blank forms being handed out at your office or were being handed out? >> the first several-dozen people that i had met with early on all had to come back and get new forms. i had already examined those people. i did not need to reexamine those people, so there were forms where we had them ready for those parents. okay? but it wasn't somebody coming in wi willy-nilly without meeting us and being given an exemption form. >> are you the only doctor in your practice who was signing these exemption forms? >> no, ma'am. no, ma'am, we had three doctors in my practice and then several other doctors, chiropractors within the county that were also doing them. i know of at least nine other docs in this community that did them. and again, they did 'em last year, as well. >> reporter: the american academy of -- of pediatrics just said this week there's been a

nearly 240% increase in cases among children. and children now account for 29% of all cases reported nationwide. so, when you weigh freedom against that, how do you do that? i mean, what is more important? >> the freedom to choose 'cause i -- i'm not gonna live in fear. it's just not me. >> even if it's putting others at risk? >> again, i'm not making that decision for them. i'm giving them permission to make that decision for themselves or their own family. >> but you are making it easier for them. so just to be clear, do you -- do you believe that masks help stop the spread? >> yeah, they help. yeah. >> so that's interesting. i mean, he says that they do help stop the spread. did you ask him what he thinks a about the vaccine? >> i did, anderson. in fact, he had covid back in december. he told me his whole fwamily ha covid around christmastime. he said that his wife and his daughter got really, really sick. those were his words.

he said now half his family is vaccinated but, anderson, he is not. and he does not plan to get the vaccine. he said that he believes his natural immunity is enough to protect him. we know that the cdc does not agree with that. they think even if you have had covid, that you should now get the vaccine. he also says that the vaccine is not in his best interest and if he does get covid again, he will accept the consequences. anderson. >> all right. randi, thanks very much. appreciate it. still ahead. what can democrats across the country learn from governor newsom's win in california recall election? we will talk to strategist james carville, next. (struggling vehicle sounds) think premium can't be capable? think again. ♪ (energetic music) ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ introducing the first ever at4 lineup. premium and capable. that's professional grade from gmc.

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this week's recall election in california was watched nationwide by many who saw it as a glimpse perhaps into the mind of the electorate one year before midterm elections that will determine which party controls congress. democratic governor gavin newsom beat the gop lead -- or excuse me -- the gop-led effort to oust him by turning the race into a national battle for his party's values and against trumpism. so, we wanted to take a look at what that strategy may tell democrats about how they might want to run in the future. for that, we turn to a man who has run more than a few democratic campaigns, james carville. so, james, let's start with

california. are there any lessons from newsom's campaign that you see that democrats should -- should take into the midterms and elsewhere around the country? >> well, i mean, one of the big lessons and you are going to see it again and again is they can put trump on the ballot. and they were very smart to politicize this recall effort and called it a republican effort in a state that was heavily democratic. so i think they ran a highly competent strategy. and i -- looks like, to me, i'm going to wait for the -- to come in that the electorate looked more 2018ish than 2014 to 2010. that is the thing that worries democrats. if we get a distorted turnout like 2010 and 2014. so far, that has not happened. you remember in georgia in '92, we lost the runoff after president clinton won. well, we won two runoffs in georgia in 2021, actually. and we outperformed in new mexico. turnout in virginia primaries was high. the race that people are going to be really looking at is virginia governor. >> right. >> this was -- this certainly

was not bad news for democrats. i don't think it's a definitive outcome for 2022. it -- it -- it certainly is not bad. >> it seems like in virginia, terry mcauliffe is already painting, you know, his opponent as, you know, as a trumpian. is that the -- i mean, is that the way forward for democrats in -- in races from here on? >> it's part of it, absolutely, because it -- that -- that excites democrats. i mean, the republicans are white hot. and -- and we know that and, you know, it worked -- it worked in california to -- to some extent. and they are debating right now, terry and youngkin, are debating down in gundy in southwest virginia and it's going to be interesting. can't wait to read about it and see what the fault lines were on that but i suspect they are going to run against trump. they might even run against florida a little bit. >> and for -- i mean, for republicans, it is a challenge because you can't win a primary in the republican party unless you show complete loyalty and fealty to -- to the former president. the question is can you then win

in a general? >> right. and -- and -- and there's a huge magnetic pull and democrats know that. and of course, youngkin had to say all kinds of things when he was trying to win his party's nomination. well, you -- you take it and you run again. look. the republicans ran against jimmy carter in 1992. i mean, this is not some new, creative strategy that -- that democrats have come up with. it's nothing unique about it. is -- you know, if you have an unpopular guy and, you know, how long they -- they've run against, you know, nancy pelosi democrats. i mean, that -- that -- that's been done in american politics forever and it's going to continue to be done and i think that, you know, people are not looking for a three-point plan for five-point plan or that nonsense. you know? you got to let people know what's at stake here and i think, you know, i think, so far, it's worked pretty well. but it's -- is -- you know, is a lot of -- a lot of football to play between now and next november. >> you have been critical of a

faction of the democratic party and their wokeness. based on the campaign that newsom ran painting larry elder as a symbol of trump ism. just looking at that race, do you still think that political wokeness is a real concern for democrats? and what's the future on that? >> well, we haven't heard. you know, we didn't hear any of that out of california. i don't hear any of that of virginia. none of this defund the police, latinx. and, you know, when i did that piece at vox, the reaction i got was -- almost -- was 97% positive. i think -- i've had woke people tell me they are tired of being woke. it's just too hard. people want to get along with each other. they -- they -- they want to, you know, be friends with each other. and, you know, people are much more interested in their lives and -- and passing, you know, good, sound laws that do good things as opposed to trying to change dictionaries. so, yeah. and i think that -- i think my message was heard. and i -- i don't seem like certainly the guy in new york is anything but woke.

>> and -- and -- yeah -- >> go ahead. >> be clear. the things that the woke people want, i want 85% of that. i'm in vigorous agreement with most of the things that they want but i think you got -- if you want to get things done, you got to talk the language that people talk, not the language that they're talking faculty lounge in some -- some of the expensive college. >> yeah. james carville, it's always great to talk to you. i really appreciate you being on. my best to your family. >> thank you, anderson. >> take care. up next what happened in court when a prominent south carolina attorney charged in a botched assisted suicide insurance scheme faced a judge. such a bizarre story. the latest, ahead. preciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. [ nautical horn blows ] i mean just because you look like someone else doesn't mean you eat off the floor, or yell at the vacuum, or need flea medication.

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disgraced south carolina attorney alex murdaugh is out of jail on bail tonight after he made his first court appearance on charges related to a botched assisted suicide fraud scheme. more now on this bizarre story from martin savidge. >> reporter: wearing a jail outfit and shackled at the wrist and ankles, alex murdaugh broke down in tears as he appeared before the magistrate judge. the once powerful and wealthy attorney, his lawyers say, is no

longer a man of means. >> he has fallen from grace. >> reporter: a warrant for his arrest detailed the botched murder attempt that was meant to provide his son millions of dollars of life insurance money, attorneys say. according to court documents, murdaugh arranged for curtis smith, a former client, to shoot and kill him. but the plan failed because the shot wasn't fatal. smith has been charged with assisted suicide, assault and battery, pointing and presenting a firearm, insurance fraud and conspiracy to commit insurance fraud. so far he's not entered a plea and has asked for a court-appointed attorney. and now another twist. the south carolina law enforcement division announcing the opening of another investigation involving the murdaughs. the 2018 death of the family's long-time housekeeper gloria satterfield, who died in what was described as a trip and fall accident on the murdaugh property. >> it was alex murdaugh who told the story that she had tripped and fell down the stairs over

his dogs. so they trusted him. >> reporter: at the time her death was said due to natural causes. the hampton county coroner angela topper told investigators in a letter the decedent's death was not reported to the coroner at the time nor was an autopsy performed. on the death certificate the manner of death was ruled natural. which is inconsistent with injuries sustained in a trip and fall accident. in court filings the satterfield family says they reached a partial settlement with murdaugh for wrongful death. but they say they never received the money they say they were due. eric bland is the satterfields' family attorney. >> he hand-walked in to his best friend and college roommate to bring a lawsuit against himself on behalf of the estate. now, as a lawyer 33 years, i'd never heard that, where you encourage somebody and take them to a lawyer who you hand-pick and then have that lawyer bring claims against you. >> reporter: this new development in satterfield's

death as alex murdaugh was already struggling with the unsolved murders of his wife and son in june. allegations that he stole money from his family's law firm and his own admission of a decades-long opioid addiction. all of this playing out in a very public downfall. >> and martin joins us now from south carolina. so what's the next step for investigators to try to untangle all of these threads? >> reporter: yeah, it would be foolish to try to guess what's next. but just take a look at all the investigation ppz you've got the insurance fraud investigation. that continues. you've got the investigation into the murders of his wife and son. they still have named no suspects, no motive. then you've got the investigation into the death of the housekeeper. the coroner has questions. then you've got the investigation into alex murdaugh allegedly taking millions of dollars from his own law firm. and then you've got the investigation into the death of 19-year-old steven smith from 2015 when he was found dead in the middle of the night in the middle of the road not that far from here. investigators say there was

something while investigating the double murders of the mother and son that now has them wanting to open another investigation into the death of steven smith. i can't tell you what's coming next. i can only tell you there is definitely more to come. >> yeah. martin savidge, i appreciate it. thank you. still to come, do americans need a covid vaccine booster shot or not? there are different views, as you probably know. it's confusing. and a key fda meeting about it all on friday. i'll talk it over with dr. sanjay gupta and others. next. ather was an allstate agent for 17 years. and i've been with allstate for 13. we've seen a lot. but i can tell you that no matter what hits us, we always bounce back. it's what we do. my name is melissa roberts. and i'm an allstate agent in harahan louisiana. join me in helping america rebuild following natural disasters. all the time in the world.

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