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adverse reactions, including seizures. use with caution in dogs with a history of these disorders. protect him with all your heart. simparica trio. an announcement, william shatner is going to join us tomorrow night. not like it's going to be a big deal because next week he's going to space. a lot to talk to him about. that's tomorrow night on 360. news continues. let's hand it over to chris. >> thank you very much. i'm chris cuomo, welcome to primetime. it's been an eye-opening 24 hours for our collective social media existence. and we just got some new information. facebook has just fired back. the zuck posted a note on his facebook page. it was supposed to be to employees, but he knew it would get out.

it's a lawn negation of the whistleblower. it starts out about the massive outage he called the worst in years and that they are debriefing how to strengthen systems. first, no accusations, but that outage sure came at a convenient time, didn't it? got everybody talking about the outage instead of what was being outed in congress. second, it's interesting that the outage has zuck searching for answers to do better, but he doesn't say that about anything happening in congress. not really. other than admitting congress does need to regulate social media more, he flatly rejects this central concern from the whistleblower. >> they have put their astronomical profits before people. >> now, astronomical profits before people. of course, do you believe this

would make facebook different than many big companies? it's not a shocking suggestion, but it is a window into the reality that we see facebook as different from just a huge company because it doesn't make widgets. its service isn't something like even managing your money, which is very important. this is about the environment that is created almost as if it were a kind of oxygen. and the nature of it and the quality of it and how it's tested matters. now, zuckerberg mentions an example of why this is wrong about profits over people. he says, you know, we change news feed to have less viral videos. it's proof they're not about profits over people. just one example. that's the best one you can come up with? again, is that surprising about any company? that profits is the main driver? no.

but we'll get to that in a second. because there is a more daunting contention. >> i believe facebook's products harm children. >> that they understand that they could be harming children. zuckerberg flatly denies this. says he's taken steps to keep kids safe. but that there are some vexing questions that need to be answered by congress, culture, and corporations. i'll answer one of them right now. as a parent of two teens and one who thinks that she's 35 but is only 12. balancing the rights of the privacy of teens and parents. no, no right to privacy as a teen unless they're emancipated. there's an easy answer for you. you got kids. they're going to get older. there is no right to privacy. it's your devices they're going on. things have to be monitored at that age, and you should know

that. now, even in that, he never said what should be obvious and i know it is to you and to us. in truth, it's been hard to watch the coverage, let alone congress. we all know there's a problem and it needs to be addressed, and part of the solution is facebook has to do better. facebook has to do better. okay. whether forced by congress or by competition or just conscience, what we and our kids take in on social media is central to modern life. look, whether you like it or not, it's true. okay. so the consideration to what is consumed should be central as well. this doesn't mean censorship. and none of this is new. the media may act otherwise, but even the ugliest accusations of lying by facebook about what it does, it's not new. they have been accused of lying to congress about everything, from what data it has on us to how it gets it and who it shares it with.

the lies have run the gamut from misleading business practices to what it knew about people messing with our elections. each time, we have seen more congressional hearings. and look, maybe it's not fair to say lies. maybe there is some gray area that we don't understand because it's not explored as regulation. look, we can't even fit all the different times they have been before called to the carpet on the same screen. mark zuckerberg himself has testified five times in the last decade. the central lie, though, and this is, this is just materially untrue, it's just too hard to do anything about so-called bad actors. >> congressman, it would be difficult to ever guarantee that any single -- that there are no bad actors. every problem around security is -- is sort of an arms race. you have people who are trying to abuse systems, and our responsibility is to make that as hard as possible and to take the necessary precautions for a company of our scale.

>> necessary precautions for a company of our scale. even in that answer, which i believe was an honest one, is a big admission. it's not about what's good for you as a company. it's not about what's appropriate for you simply as a company. these social media companies, again, are more than the makers of cars or cigarettes or financial services. they are creating the environment that we all live in, that we consume as culture. it's not just about what works for them. it cannot be. and it is time for the reflexive notion that it's too hard to die. how is it that if you and i are discussing offshore fishing and

all of a sudden we start to get ads, how is it that it just seems to be in all these disclaimers that none of us read because we just want to get on and click the button, that they let you know they got lots of ways of finding out what's being said and sent to you and that you're sending out. they can stop bad actors. their own research says so. this is about what they choose to do. and it is telling where they choose to do it. namely, places like india, pakistan, russia, turkey, the philippines, and china. yesterday's outage showed just how much this company, this one company matters. just facebook. it's a big deal when facebook and instagram went down. i did think it was funny that so many of you who said you had gotten rid of it were complaining about instagram and

facebook being out. can guess you didn't hold to your convictions on that one. look, i'm not saying you should either. these are staples of our existence these days. like it or not. you don't have to do it, but everybody does. 3.5 billion people. that resonates everywhere on this planet. >> i have strong national security concerns about how facebook operates. >> of course there are. look, this is not about facebook being bad. okay. it's about it being symptomatic of a problem. all right. and they have to be part of the solution. the hope is that this time, it resonates. this time, it matters, because the warnings aren't new. it is an industry that stands at the nexus of so many of our biggest threats.

domestic terror, the big lie, the growing political divisions. i'm not saying they're the reason for the division, but they're a magnifier, they're a multiplier. drug cartels, sex trafficking, racism, hate speech, anti-semitism. the question is congress. are you too broken to do what they actually agree needs to happen? i mean, look, this is a weird one. all right. you got fox and cnn making the same arguments largely about social media. okay. for all the viral moments floating around making this member or that one look out of touch, there are half a dozen active bills in the house. did you know that? all with bipartisan support designs to address many of these problems. why aren't they going anywhere? how many of you don't believe that you need help in understanding what is allowed to get to you and what people seem to be basing their realities on? for its part, even facebook says that they need the help of regulation.

because here's the part that really needs to stand out. this isn't about demonizing them or an industry or any company. this is about understanding the competitive advantage that is right in front of all of us. the last time we saw a facebook whistleblower testify before congress, and that's another thing, the whistleblower. we have had them before. remember cambridge analytica. a few months after this guy, pew research found that 44% of young users deleted facebook from their phones. legislation, good. building trust, better. and the two go hand in hand. companies, whether they're the giants or new competitors, they have the tools to design platforms where kids can be safe. even though it's a new world and it's a new technology, the old rules still apply. it is possible to do well and still to do good. my next guest knows this reality. he was one of the earliest

investors in facebook. he's also the author of "zucked," roger mcnamee. >> i have to tell you what i thought of your opening. >> don't insult me. i'm at a low. >> i'm really sorry, but that was absolutely extraordinary. the thing here is, you got to the essential issues. so the thing with zuckerberg's post tonight is that it follows a classic facebook formula, which it uses rhetorical questions to try to undermine an argument against facebook, where the rhetorical questions are either deflections or just plain inaccurate. for example, one of the core ones in there, facebook said, oh, we couldn't possibly be doing what the whistleblower accuses us of because advertisers would not want to see their ads next to

inflammatory content. well, he lies. the critical point here is that some of the most profitable advertisers to facebook are the very people who are spreading that exact content that's causing all the trouble. so think about anti-vaxxers. they're huge advertisers on facebook. even the stop the steal movement and the insurrection, giant advertiser on facebook. if you look at human trafficking, i mean, there are just a gazillion scams on facebook on any given day. so the underlying argument is completely flawed. >> you used a very interesting word there, roger, and where want to use the word to take us

to the solution. you said he elied, which is a very nice way to say he slips past the reality that it is not true about all advertisers, that there are plenty who are willing to pay to spread poison. that takes us to the fix. you said on this show and elsewhere before, you have no doubt that they can do things to control content, misinformation, disinformation, pernicious and overt. what is the fix that you would want to see first? >> so, the critical thing i would point out here is that frances haugen, the whistleblower, she's courageous, she's authoritative and utterly convincing, and facebook's response by contrast are completely unbelievable. the key thing is frances haugen talks about the moral failure of prioritizing profits over public safety. you made the essential point, in america, we tell our ceos, all you do in your job is maximize profits. the result is companies have taken on business models that are dangerous. the business model of facebook is designed to maximize attention at any cost. when you think about kids,

young, say teenage girls or younger -- >> i have one. i have a kid who is a case study in this. thank god she's healthy and she's okay, but it's a struggle, brother. it's a struggle because of what's coming at her. >> instagram was designed from the beginning with filters to make people look better than they are in real life, which is designed to provoke envy, which causes people to spend money. that was the business model from day one. this notion that they did not intend to hurt kids is completely unbelievable. and so what you have to have, you have to address three things, chris. safety, privacy, and competition. and if i may, the safety thing, think about it this way. we have had really important industries that were unsafe in the past. before the pure food and drug act, food production was unsafe. medicines were unsafe. we created the fda to make them safe. we need something like that here. secondly, you've got privacy. the big issue on all this stuff, it's not just that facebook tracks you everywhere, but

there's a giant economy of third parties who have all of your location data from your cell phone, they have your prescriptions and your medical tests, which tell you everything you need to know about a person's health. they have all your financial transactions. they know what apps you're using, they know what you do on the web. all that tradeses online, and they use it to create first a model that allows them to use artificial intelligence to predict your behavior, but then, also, they use artificial intelligence to then go out with recommendation engines to manipulate your behavior. and that is a huge problem. and that is what's going on with stop the steal, causing all those people to attack the capitol, thinking that was a patriotic act. those people were manipulated. so those are huge issues. the third issue is competition. we need to update the antitrust laws for the 21st century and need to recognize this is not about facebook. facebook is the worst offender today, but there is a long line of companies trying to use artificial intelligence or smart devices or facial recognition, next generation technologies that will be every bit as harmful in the future as

facebook is today. >> i tell you what, if zuckerberg is as smart as we believe him to be, he should own the changes. because even from a competitive standpoint, if he can do it at scale, nobody is going to come underneath and say i have a safer facebook. i made the pledge, i'm not going to break it. we must continue to speak, not just when there's a congressional hearing, not just when it's obvious. we have to keep talking about what the realities are and why things aren't changing because we're all living it, and we're starting to accept the problem as just part of normal, and that is unacceptable. appreciate you being on. >> my pleasure. see you soon. >> so we'll keep talking about it because we're all living it. i got the kids at home, you got the kids. we see it. how many times on your phone does it pop up, allow this, don't allow that. you don't have time to read these. we trust that these companies are doing the right thing. but more and more, we learn they're doing the right thing, all right, by their shareholders, and by what makes them more money. you got to balance it out. capitalism is not without its checks. okay. and this is one of those

situations. cigarettes, right? you think that this is any less pernicious than cigarettes? it's everywhere, it's everything. look at your kids. look at your life. look at your screen time. at least three weeks now, families are in agony. why? because of the gabby petito situation. is brian laundrie alive? he's been gone. now we know new information that he didn't just come home once. her family says someone needs to start talking. brian's sister just did. but will that put investigators any closer? what we have learned and what the likelihood is here of anything else being found out. fbi insider next. as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪

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just a quick will and won't. all right. of course, the focus is going to be on finding the fiance. but this is not the brian laundrie story. you cannot lose sight of who was lost here. okay. you need to find him so that there can be a review of what is justice here, what is fairness under law. the consciousness of guilt and making you flee is damning but not dispositive. so it's not and i'm not going to make it sound like that, and i'm not going to tantalize you with little details that don't mean anything just to keep the story going. it's about things that are formative of our understanding. now, is what we heard from laundrie's sister and from what we now know about his movements,

how do they help us? and in terms of the urgency and of how odd this was from jump. here is some of gabby petito's parents, all four of them, with dr. phil. >> i would say brian's a mediocre survivalist. it wouldn't surprise me if he could last out there a very long time. >> is he living off the land somewhere? >> possibly. >> does he have that skill set? >> i believe so. >> is he an environmentalist, survivalist type? knows camping? >> i believe he bragged about that, that he was good at that stuff. >> that was his sister before,

talking to cnn, and then obviously, you saw that was gabby's mom. okay. like many families, it's mixed. the mother and father biologically are now remarried to other people, but let me tell you something. these four are all in it together. now, cassie laundrie hasn't spoken with her parents in about two weeks. why? once again, on the advice of the parents' lawyer. now, there's a long hate parade for this lawyer and for his advice, but again, remember, this isn't about pr for a lawyer. this is about how to insulate their clients. it's not about doing what you or i may think is right. it's about how to secure their legal rights. remember that. now, the sister says the attorney whom she describes as being like an uncle to her,

won't allow the parents to discuss the case with anyone, including her. why? because if they do, she no longer has what they call plausible deniability of anything that they may have told her. that's why legally, he's doing it that way. let's bring in an expert about what we understand and what we don't. retired fbi agent bobby chicone. you have dealt with the lawyer side of this many times even though it's not your area of practice. this is frustrating. it's discomfitting, weird, unusual, but it's not weird for a lawyer to tell people who could be in trouble, shut up, talk to nobody, say nothing. >> you're right, chris. this is where the hatred of defense attorneys always comes in. he's actually doing his job. >> until you need one. then you don't hate them. >> and he's doing his job, what he's paid to do. he's advocating for his client, and every aspect, and he's trying to shield his clients from legal liability, and that's what he gets pay for and what he's charged with. anything less, and it would be legal malpractice. >> now, i want to play the sister again because i want to flip this point and put it back into your wheelhouse about reasonable suspicions here. here's another bite of the sister. >> no, i do not know where brian is. i would turn him in. i don't know if my parents are involved. i am losing my parents and my brother and my children's aunt

and my future sister-in-law on top of this, and you're not helping. >> why your parents? you're talking about chris. >> because they're not talking to us either. >> family drama aside, we have heard and we know as fact that when the parents of gabby were looking for her and contacting the laundrie family, they never got back to them from jump, bobby. as soon as their son got back, they refused to communicate. how do you process that? >> that's right. that's right, and it even goes further than that, chris, because the entire time, say from the first or late in august when they lost contact with gabby, to september 11th, is when the police said the van is back. that's the first time gabby's parents, her mom in new york, found out the van was even back. and that whole time, when they're reaching out for laundrie's parents, brian's parents, they thought both of the kids were missing. they didn't even know brian was

back. they even had more of a grave sense because both kids are missing, and why aren't his parents responding to any of our calls and texts? >> right. >> so it went beyond just trying to protect brian. they didn't even know brian was back. >> now, do you care that brian laundrie came back once in august, i think it's the 17th, supposedly he had to do some things, close down a storage unit or something like that, and then he went back to gabby and then there was, you know, obviously then the ultimate separation. so that they were apart for about a week after the police stop. >> i have been trying to think since i heard this news about what kind of nefarious motive or intent or purpose that that might have had, that trip might have had, but the stated purpose was they decided to extend their trip.

they had all this stuff in storage in florida that they could sell and move to a smaller unit and actually convert some of those things to cash to help them extend their trip, which sounds like a reasonable explanation. i can't for the life of me, because gabby is seen after he returns with her, so we know that, you know, her demise didn't cause him to travel back to florida, so he goes back to utah, and then they're back together and seen together again. i don't -- i can't think of a nefarious reason why he would have made that trip, and i tend to believe the stated reason that they were trying to liquidate some assets so they could continue the trip. >> it also changes what was a supposition about this being a straight-line sequence of inflammatory events that led a controlling person to maybe do something extreme to someone they were supposed to have loved. he had time to cool off. did he? or why didn't he? what does that mean?

>> i think that ultimately that will be shown that this was not a planned thing, but this was a pattern of violence that would erupt and then settle and then erupt again and settle, and ultimately an eruption that probably caused gabby her life. >> it's something bobby knows better than i, but in my 20-plus years i have never seen a case where somebody who cares about somebody had nothing to do with looking for them when they went missing. it's the first time i have ever heard of it, let alone dealt with it. bobby, thank you very much. as we get the next relevant piece, i'll see if you can come back. thank you very much. >> i'll be here. thanks. january 6th. it is a date that must live in infamy. or not. maybe not. if you want to run for president as a republican or shall i say in the trump party. because if anybody were going to carry that day in their heart in politics, it would be mike

pence. because they came looking for him. but not only does the former vp now want you to say it was overblown, but that he and trump, they're great. it's all fine. it's just the media that's the problem. let's shine a light on a reality next. at the end of their first year automatically woo! i got my mo-ney! it's hard to contain yourself isn't it? uh- huh! well let it go! woooo! get a dollar for dollar match at the end of your first year. only from discover. oh! are you using liberty mutual's coverage customizer tool? so you only pay for what you need. sorry? limu, you're an animal! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ sustainability is essential to creating a better tomorrow. that's why cisco is committed to achieving net zero emissions by 2040. and we believe our smart buildings solutions can help. providing power to reduce emissions, intelligence to eliminate waste, and collaboration tools that help the workplace and the planet. between meeting human needs and a sustainable future,

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ago. in fact, nine months ago tomorrow. but to hear it from the former vp, mike pence, this was no biggy. no biggy that trumpers whipped into a frenzy in part by the former president, in part by the mis and disinformation allowed to propagate itself on social media, in that frenzy, they attacked the capitol, set up a gallows for pence. chanted what you heard and more. at trump's suggestion. remember, he said mike failed them. and why? because pence didn't find a way, and it does seem that pence looked for ways to change the fact that they had lost the election. but now, no biggy says the guy that they came for. >> the president and i sat down a few days later and talked through all of it. i can tell you that we parted amicably at the end of the administration, and we have talked a number of times since

we both left office. i know the media wants to distract from the biden administration's failed agenda by focusing on one day in january. they want to use that one day to try to demean the character and intentions of 74 million americans. >> just a media distraction to demean trump supporters? no. the men and women who decided to attack the capitol demeaned themselves. and our democracy. and mr. vice president, just because you say it with a straight face doesn't mean you're being straight. you are demeaning yourself by pandering to poison politics and lies about january 6th. and you know it. you had to run and hide with your family from the insurrectionists because trump

wouldn't help you. that's the fact. and we all know it. but trump still gets that fealty. why? because for pence and many others, that is the only way to run in '24 in his party. pence, who stood silent, must now speak up on trump's behalf. then there's nikki haley, who once looked like she could stand apart from the savagery of her party. remember for a fleeting second after january 6th, trump's former ambassador to the u.n. was willing to say the obvious. remember this? he's fallen so far, we should not have followed him. and we should not have listened to him. and we can't let that happen ever again. ever again. until this "wall street journal."

trump has a, quote, strong legacy from his administration. we need him in the republican party. i don't want us to go back to the days before trump. really? look, it is not notable that politicians will say whatever it takes to get power. i know these rules don't apply to your life. i know this is why you are so disgusted by politics, especially the politics on the right right now. i got it. all of it is a problem. they are specifically a unique problem. what matters is that trump still carries this kind of weight. the only time people seem to tell the truth about what should be obvious to all of us is when they're getting paid to, like his white house press secretary, stephanie grisham, who now wants you to have clear eyes on trump. >> the fact that he's the front runner right now for if he were to run for office is scaring me, and that's because if he gets into office, he doesn't run for re-election again. he'll be able to do whatever he wants, and we all know there's going to be retribution.

there's going to be revenge. people think that the people in that trump white house were bad perhaps. i have a feeling the 1/6 crowd might be working in the white house in 2024. >> look, grisham likely knows as much as who will be around trump as you do. she's not a trump insider. but she could be right about what another trump presidency may mean to you and your family. so what does this all mean for the gop? let's take a break and when we come back, you want to hear somebody speak truth about that party? about what it means that grisham wants to come out now, what pence is saying, what haley is saying? that is going to be the face of the straight-up truth, next. worth is knowing it's never too late to start - or too early. ♪ ♪ wealth helps you retire. worth is knowing why. ♪ ♪

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nikki haley and mike pence both gravelling to get back into trump's good graces. stephanie grisham saying now he's telling the truth. let's bring in ana navarro for the straight deal on this. i guess pence and haley are betting trump doesn't run again. if he does, they just disqualified themselves in the primary. what is pence's play here, ignoring january 6th when they

came for him? >> well, i think one is what you just said. that they're counting on trump not running and them being part of the big group of contestants on republican survivor island for the 2024 republican primary. another, chris, is that mike pence apparently has no identity other than being donald trump's vice president and wanting to stay in politics, thinks if trump does run again, he will be hihis vp nominee again, and i think nikki haley is also betting on that. those are the two possibilities they see. frankly, i don't see either of those happening for mike pence. so he's groveling. he's humiliating himself, he's showing complete lack of dignity and self respect for nothing. because if he thinks that the people who wanted to hang him from gallows, okay, hang him, we all heard the chants. hang mike pence. if he thinks those people are ever going to believe that he did the right thing in

allowing -- legitimizing the election results, he's grossly mistaken. they're never going to forgive, and they're never going to forget. and mike pence is never going to be able to outtrump somebody like ron desantis who doesn't have that kind of historical baggage that he brings. and the other side, there's the republicans like me who are also never going to forgive or forget his complicity for four years in allowing the abuses of power and sitting there smiling, looking like a doting wife at donald trump. we're never going to forgive that, and we have other candidates. we have people like a liz cheney or adam kinzinger, who are much more appealing to us. i see no space for him, and it's -- it's beyond pathetic, and i'll tell you, to me, probably what i think is the worst thing. it's not even the lack of self-respect to himself. if somebody should want to get to the truth of what happened on january 6th, it should be mike pence. but it's the lack of respect to

the secret service and to the capitol police who saved his skin that day. he was within hundreds of feet of those protesters that wanted to hang him from a noose they had built. and he owes them. he owes them wanting to get to the truth and the bottom of what led to january 6th. so shame on him. >> that's a strong point. let's end it there. that's enough for me. i don't want to flood that point with anything else. ana navarro, thank you for giving us the straight tell. and we'll see what your party does. we'll see her soon, that's for sure. all right, headline from a new report. it's not getting enough attention. captured, killed, or compromised? that's the headline about a disturbing number of cia informants around the world. why? this apparent top-secret cable was sent out by the cia about it. is u.s. intelligence this jeopardized?

let's take it to a former cia counterterrorism official next. as someone who resembles someone else... i appreciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪

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this is not getting enough attention, and it checks out and it's out of "the new york times." dozens of cia informants have been captured, killed or compromised, meaning possibly turned into double agents. "times" is basing their reporting on what? a top secret memo sent to all stations and bases around the world. let's bring in phil mudd to help assess the danger. first let's assess the basis. a cia top secret memo getting out like this that was sent to all stations. do you trust the sourcing on this? >> i do. the first question i had, chris, the same question you would have is is this legitimate but if you look at the memo and you look at the background of where the cia has been in the past 20 years let me give you a snapshot.

the cia comes out of 20 years of saying we're going into a business of working with security services in places like pakistan to hunt terrorists. maybe recruiting terrorists. we're paying less attention to iranians, chinese, russians, north koreans. and now i'm not surprised people in the cia i can guarantee you are saying when we get back into the business of the real spy stuff. north koreans, as i said, russians, chinese. are we as good as we used to be? and i'm sure there are some people, chris, who are answering that question with a simple answer. no, we're not. >> well, saying that you're a little rusty is different than having your people picked off and killed. why is that happening? >> well, there's one thing that's changing over the years. one is have you trained the people in the cia the same way you would have trained them 20, 25 years ago, to be alert to everything from simple things, countersurveillance, to the

second piece? and this is what i want to focus on. that is the digital piece. if you want to talk to somebody on e-mail, if you want to talk to somebody on text, if you ask somebody to travel by a fake name in the age of biometric passports, that is, fingerprints, if you're doing that classic spy business are you sure that you know how to face the chinese or the russians today as opposed to what you would have done 20 years ago. the digital age, chris, has changed the spy business, and one of the questions in the article is is the cia ready for that, are they trained for that? >> so is it about the game changing and maybe the united states not being up to snuff? or is this about some type of targeted takeout of united states assets? >> i'd say there's two things i'd think about. first is them and the second is us.

them is what i just mentioned. if you look at the countries i mentioned, let's take russia and china, in terms of digital capability, if you want to talk to somebody over the internet, compared to 20 years ago, what do you think the russians and the chinese are good at? not only targeting us in terms of digital but also numbers of people. you look at the chinese security service. that's hundreds of thousands of people looking across the internet saying what are we seeing in terms of something that would allow us to pick up an agent. so they've gotten better. but also i've got to believe looking at us, and people talked about that when i was in the business, looking at us, we had a lot of junior officers who were out talking to people like the pakistanis and the saudis, help us find terrorists. those junior cia officers weren't trained in saying how do i prevent surveillance from the russians and the chinese. there's a generation of cia people who maybe don't know the business as well as they should, chris. that's the message.

>> so let me ask you this again. i asked you when we left afghanistan, are we going to be able to be as safe at home after as we were when we had people on the ground? you said yes, i think so. do you believe we are as safe at home now with a cia that's having its people picked off as some type of evidence of how they do the job? >> no. the simple reason is if you look at the basics of intelligence, how do you prevent a threat to america, threat in terms of american elections, that's the russians, threat in terms of how you assess threats to places like korea and japan, that's the chinese, threats to the middle east and europe in terms of missiles, that's iranians, if those places are getting better at picking off our agents by looking at things like how they communicate by e-mail and text and we don't know what those places like the russians are doing in terms of american

elections, i don't know how you interpret this in another way, chris, than saying if american spies are blind we're weaker, we are weaker. >> you've also got to hope we're getting our best, and with the distrust in institutions now that's being fomented in our application i wonder how recruiting's going. phil mudd. i appreciate you. thank you, brother. >> thank you. >> all right. let's take a quick break. we'll come right back with the hand-off. ♪ upbeat, catchy music ♪ >> tech: i am safelite. >> tech: i am safelite. are you? >> tech: at safelite, we're hiring. >> tech: apply now to start your future. >> tech: i make a difference, and you can too. >> techs: we are safelite. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ what happens when we welcome change? we can transform our workforce overnight out of convenience, or necessity. we can explore uncharted waters, and not only make new discoveries, but get there faster, with better outcomes. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change-- meeting them where they are,

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