the covid-19 vaccines are safe, effective and the best thing against the virus but should remain voluntary and never forced. southwest airlines say they will continue implementing a federally directed vaccine mandate for their employees since they fall under the government contract. let's hand it over to chris cuomo for "prime time." chris? >> hi, i'm chris cuomo. welcome to "prime time." we can now tell you gabby was strangled and we can tell you details that mean the most to investigators. we also learned something else from the coroner. here it is. >> as far as the time of death, we are estimating three to four weeks from the time that the body was found. >> this is an approximation, right? the coroner went on to say give or take a week. the finding, however, is significant in terms of timing. we're going to take you into the

timeline and show you why. here's what we know. gabby was found september 19 in wyoming's bridgerton teton national forest, thanks to other campers. that's how the police found where she was. she was killed three or four weeks before she was discovered. they're always going to give a range. it's hard to know precisely. so where does that put the death? approximately between august 22, which it can't be -- i'll explain why in a second -- and the 29th. we know we can narrow that window. the last reported sighting of gabby petito by witnesses was on august 27, merry piglets restaurant, jackson hole, wyoming. so if the timing is right, and the date of the sighting is right, and we know it is, gabby was killed sometime between august 27 and august 29. we know her fiance brian laundrie was still in the area

during august 27 to august 29. how? because two drivers who picked him up hitchhiking said they both gave him rides without gabby -- without gabby -- on august 29 in the grand teton national park. you'll remember he was described as seeming a little off, he got in the car, then he got out, he offered them money. behavior was erratic, said the other person who picked him up. it wasn't until september 1 that brian laundrie showed up back at home across the country in florida in petito's van. they shared it. so the timeline could be off plus or minus a week, but it potentially excludes the idea that this could not have been the fiance. by looking at the timeline, i wasn't there, i was home, i had come back to deal with the storage unit, those explanations won't seem to cover what is now in the world of probability. however, investigators are

working with more. first, we know that gabby was found near a campsite. no reports that she was hidden or buried. what does that mean to investigators? it is suggestive of a spontaneous event, a lack of planning pointing to a crime of passion. who commits crimes of passion? most often someone familiar to the victim. we also learned today, as expected, dna was collected from gabby's body. what will be interesting is if there is any finding of any dna that was not the fiance's. why? because if there is nobody else except him in terms of evidence of contact with the body, with gabby, the idea that this was a random attack by a stranger becomes more suspect. however, the big takeaway for investigators is going to be this part of the autopsy. see it on the screen?

cause is death by manual strangulation throttling. throttling is a little bit of a term of art within the forensic field. that is strangled by human force, meaning there is no evidence that this was a rope or a garat or something like that, some implement or tool. what does that indicate? again, lack of planning suggestive of a crime of passion. that makes finding gabby petito's fiance brian laundrie more important than ever. now, where he is concerned, two things very damaging on top of everything that was learned today. the only person i've ever heard of in all my years doing this job whose loved one goes missing and they not only refuse to help look for the person but won't communicate with her family. now, that is a matter of fact since gabby petito disappeared.

then he went missing since september 13, which could easily be construed by investigators as evidence of his own negative feelings about his role in the situation. his parents and investigators have been searching with no luck at the carlton nature reserve in venice, florida for weeks. that's where the parents say he went. there is no other indication that he went there except that they say that's where he went. now, interestingly, the attorney for the laundrie family reiterated after this ruling was announced that brian is only considered a person of interest in relation to gabby's death, and that he's only charged at this point with the unauthorized use of a debit card that the lawyer volunteered was gabby's. the indictment did not say that. what was the point of such a statement? it's interesting, but it's a side issue.

the big question is with what investigators now know, do they have enough for an arrest? and if so, what would the charge be? that's where we turn to the better minds now. we have cnn legal analyst and criminal defense attorney joey jackson, forensic pathologist, former medical examiner, dr. dupree. doc, let's start with you. we'll deal with what we know. on the know side, were you surprised by this? >> no, not really. i do think it is a crime of passion, and strangulation is very common in those. >> now, what else do you think that you can tell about circumstances based on what you know from the forensics? the location of the body, the timing and what they said in the autopsy. >> this all tells me that it

probably was not planned. it was probably a spontaneous act. it was most likely domestic violence related. it also tells me that he didn't try to cover it up. if she was killed there, and i'm not sure we know that she was, if she was not dumped there, then, again, this was very random. not random, but spontaneous. >> now, if she had been dumped there, left there, wouldn't that be somewhat inconsistent with her being found out in the open as opposed to if somebody was going to leave a body somewhere, wouldn't they want to hide it? >> yes and no. again, they may just dump it there and want to get away quickly, thinking that because they've moved to a secondary location there would be less evidence and less likely to be found. it's still a forensic countermeasure. >> what does that mean? >> it means that it's still a method of trying to cover up what they did, if that person

was moved from the original crime scene. >> how often is strangulation, specifically throttling, which means with human hands as opposed to using an instrument or any kind of device, how common is it that that is someone familiar to the deceased? >> it's very common. that is one of the most common ways that a partner would strangle -- would kill another person is by strangulation. >> how do you die by strangulation? >> it's asphyxia, which is cutting off the oxygen to the brain, and it's typically by the hands wrapped around the throat or the neck in order to cut off that circulation, and, therefore, the oxygen. >> how long does it take? >> it depends on how hard it's done. it can take minutes, it can take, you know, a few minutes, really. >> thank you, doc. now, joey, in terms of what this will mean to investigators, the headline question is, do you believe on what they see in this

autopsy they have enough to arrest brian laundrie if they can find him? >> there is no question about it, chris. good evening to you and to dr. dupree. the reality is you just conducted a prosecutor's direct examination of a witness who is going to give you information critical to the conviction. why? dr. dupree spoke to the issue of how it would be a crime, right, that would be passionate, that would be intimate. she spoke to the issue of strangulation. she spoke to the issue of the nature of the cause of death, et cetera, then you ask yourself the question, well, who would that individual be? then you have other information. you specified and spelled it out, chris, at the outset with respect to the timeline. what i would suggest, the prosecutor has more. like what? there are these prior bad acts. if you want to talk about a roy relationship where everything was fun, he didn't do anything. you have the non-arrest, right,

but the dmeomestic violence iss, that's one. you look at statements as to how they interact in a restaurant, that's two. why is that important? because prior bad acts give you an indication of bad behavior, so who would this person be who did this, who was traveling around with her, the very person who engaged in those other negative actions. what's that? the autopsy report with respect to the cause of death. >> him leaving/disappearing means what? >> it means consciousness of guilt. in the event you did nothing, if the event you had clean hands, in the event that, my goodness, you want to find her, you want to know what happened to her, you would be the first to call the police, wouldn't you, sir? you would be the first to go and help the family, wouldn't you, sir? you would be the first to find out and determine what happened to the one you love and want to spend the rest of your life with, the fiancee you are traveling across country dictating every single thing

you're doing on instagram. but what happens? you're on the camera smiling, showing what you're eating, everything else, and all of a sudden you disappear? is that indicative of or a suggestion of innocence? i say not. >> dna, of course you'll find the fiance's dna on gabby, that should be damning. is there any specification of where dna is found in terms of how she died that could be ins instructive. >> if we found dna under her fingernails, that could be a sign there was a struggle. dna found other places. it depends on where it is. they were's fiance, they were a couple. the interesting thing would be if you found other dna or foreign dna. >> that would be brian laundrie, if it finds out to be him that's targeted, a defense counsel's dream, to raise some doubt. let me ask you not from a

forensic perspective but from your participation in so many cases. have you ever heard of a loved one not participating in a search for someone who is missing? >> only on very rare occasions. >> and why? >> that was because they were the cause of death. >> dr. dupree, thank you very much. joey jackson. look, just because it happened before doesn't mean it's true here. prosecutors have to make the case every time out beyond a reasonable doubt. this isn't about cancelling somebody, this is about convicting them for a major felony. thank you both very much. as we get more information, i'll bring you back. appreciate it. all right, now, politics. if you are a gop governor, why would you pick a fight with your own base and big business? that's the question circling around the texas governor. how strong is the pull of being like trump? he's going after vaccine mandates that now big businesses

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i strip before take-off. breathe right strips open your nose for relief you can feel right away, helping you take in air more easily, wherever you are. let's start with the good news. 78.4 adults in the united states are fully vaccinated. you can hear the experts. we can potentially end the pandemic in a matter of months by getting more adults and children vaccinated. but you know what's not going to help? what we now call politics, which is really something uglier than this service of people, which is what politics is. a message like this from one congressman, jim jordan, urging the state of ohio to end all vaccine mandates. that's what governor mandate did in texas with that executive order, getting companies to

ignore the mandates of getting the shot. let's bring in conservative radio host mark davis from 660 am. nice having you on the show. >> thanks, chris. >> i'm very glad you took the opportunity to come on. government telling people what to do, conservatives not going to like it. really, nobody likes being told what to do. but you don't like hearing a governor, let alone a supposedly conservative governor, telling companies that they can't do something that you believe they are allowed to. how so? >> it calls to mind a certain consistency in the conservative mindset of what governors' role should be in business decision making, and to my mind that role is as little as possible. that means that joe biden is wrong to tell companies that you must have a vaccine mandate, and governors from abbott to desantis, whom i also love, are wrong to tell companies that they cannot. i am a business and economic

liberty guy as much as i am an individual liberty guy. people have the right to get the shot or not and businesses have the right to have whatever vaccine policies they please. >> so two days ago, abbott just tweeted, in texas it is businesses, not government. why the change? >> well, i can't read minds, but there are two theories, and i bet it's a combination of both. the easy one that a lot of people pay attention to is there is a right word pivot perceived from governor abbott as a result of two campaigns, one from alan west, the other by former state senator don hoffines run to go the right of him, and they find it important that he is suddenly conservative. so politics and pivotpivoting, s one theory. the other one, though, the coverage you have done and

everybody has done, the occasional hospital that's having a shutdown because 10% to 20% of their health care workers are protesting the vaxx mandate. there is serious concern that the mandates themselves, well-meaning though they may be, and there is debate over that, may be causing this backlash and this serious full-on revolt that may bring portions of an already fragile economy to its knees, creating, i believe, a valid debate over whether the mandates are in some way counterintuitive if our goal is to get people vaccinated. >> why do you think, mark, that no other established democracy in the world is having the struggle that we are with getting vaccinated? >> it's a similar cousin to why are we the only country with x amount of gun proliferation? america is different. america is special. america is unique. there is a liberty mindset that

rolls through our veins. i have it even though i am proudly vaccvaccinated. my freedom involved my ability to be able to make that choice. covid is full of wildly unprecedented things. there is a portion of america, a portion of southwest airlines, and a portion of hospital emergency rooms that just don't want to be told to put something in their body that they don't want. i really do believe if the mandates went away, there are people who grudgingly over time would say, okay, i'll do it because i'm not being told i have to. >> what do you hear from your listeners on this issue? >> it's a delicious mixture. i do a conservative show, but i'm proud to welcome anybody from every perspective. there are people who think i am somehow problematic because i have not glommed on completely with abbott and desantis to say, yes, it's a great thing.

they want to fire me because i won't get the shot? they do have that latitude, they do have that freedom, but xyz corporation also has the right to have its rules. it's a collision of liberties and it creates a fascinating debate every day. looking at what's going on at southwest, i wonder if that's inspiring other workplaces to say, you know what, if we can get enough people to bring a company to its knees, then maybe we can get them to lose the mandates, too. even if they wanted to lose the mandates, there is the mandate looming over them. you don't have to work for the government to feel the sting of the biden mandate. but the biden mandate says, you have to be vaxxed and there are people who say that is just wrong. don't tell me what i have to do

on this personal matter. >> let me ask you one more thing and then i'll let you go. conservatives grew up all around me, married into a conservative family. it wasn't about what you had the right to do, it was always what is right. it seems like half of that equation has been abandoned by conservatives. it's my freedom. okay, you have the right not to take the vaccine. but what tells you that it is right? when it seems to check every traditional conservative notion. is there science behind it? yes. does it help you keep yourself and those you care about safe? >> yes. >> is it part of your responsibility to doing the right thing ethically by others? yes. >> what happened to those values within the conservative movement as opposed to just this resistance by right? >> the question suggests that conservatism compels the

vaccine, which it does not. i am a decided conservative, a proud conservative, and i am proudly vaccinated. conservatism involves viewing liberty that by its definition means there are some people who may say things and do things that we disagree with. i'm hammering it out every day with people who give me reasons why they're not getting the shot. i find some of those reasons, shall we say, informationally challenged. but i'm not telling them what to do in their lives. >> you don't need government to do it. character counts. where is good character in the assessment that i'm not going to do this just because nobody can tell me to do it, even though it may make me sick, may make people i care about sick or others. that's what i don't get about the alan west position. thank god he's going to be okay, we hope, but all we need are antibodies, all we need are the pill. the pill and antibodies don't keep you from getting sick.

why is that being ignored here? >> alan is a friend of mine. i don't go to him for medical advice. he can do whatever he wants to do, and a lot of people called me and said, mark, you know alan. he's got the covid, what is he going to do now? he's doubling down. his base loves it. he's being alan, i'm being me, you're being you. that's what conservatism really means, is respecting those differences. and when i hear from people every day they're not getting the shot, i wish they would, but i'm not going to make them. >> mark davis, thank you for being on this show. i didn't make you, but thank you for taking the opportunity. a star nba player says, i'm exercising my right. i'm not going to take the vaccine. in the basketball league, the nba says, okay. but now his team, the brooklyn

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my blood pressure is borderline. garlique healthy blood pressure formula helps >> announcer: closed captioning brought to you by garlique. i'm taking charge, with garlique. we just can't get enough of making our own trouble when it comes to covid. now one of the biggest stars in the nba is off the court because he won't get the vaccine. the brooklyn nets say point guard kyrie irving will not play or practice with the team until he's eligible to be a full participant. the nba doesn't have a leaguewideman mandate for the players, but it does follow local vaccine rules. and yes, players in the nba are well more vaccinated than the rest of us.

it's like 96% of them. the removal of a key all-star could have ripple effects. let's bring in sports journalist, host of "the right time with bomani jones." good to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> let's look at kyrie first. do you think he's making the right decision? >> i mean, right as an individual sort of notion. i can't see the circumstances in which i would take the path that he's taking. kyrie believed he is taking on a much larger cause for more people. he believes that he is standing up as a voice for the voiceless, is the way this report put it, and that he's standing up for the people who lost their jobs because of vaccine mandates. it's a little weird because it's interesting that the voice for the voiceless isn't actually using his voice. kyrie is one sort of situation, and i can't purport to understand fully what his logic is on this, but it couldn't be

me. >> he's gotten things twisted before, but i think the most essential concern is if you want to speak for people, speak for your teammates. what do you think this says to them? >> or if you're going to speak to people, actually speak for the people. one thing that's happened with a lot of guys in the nba or just across sports is the idea that this is a personal decision. i think this goes beyond sports, that this somehow became something very sacred that people do not disclose to people without giving much of a rationale for it. his teammates, it's pretty clear they got sick of this. >> no pun intended. >> there are people i talked to where they just figure in the end he'll show up, because why wouldn't he show up? then he doesn't show up, and i don't think they were ready for that, and i don't think anybody really likes the premise or the idea that so many think he'll show up for half the games. >> the league doesn't have a player mandate, should it? >> i don't think so. at the very least, i understand that's something the player association would fight vehemently, and the members do

not want a mandate. the owners are not in a position to oppose that. i am uncomfortable, particularly in sports, with the idea that you have to make somebody take anything just because these are people who trade on their bo bodies. it's a little bit different, i think, in terms of the decision there. with this mandate, they've gotten high results, which tells me they didn't need to make the mandate. >> do you think stars should be looked to for saying the right things and doing the right things where the vaccine is involved? >> i think it depends on who we're talking about. i do think there is a measure of responsibility that comes from the platform that you have, but i also think that if you're someone who leans in on the idea that you have a platform, now is not the time to back off of it. lebron is the one i lean into because he's a leader, he's about something larger. he showed up at the game with leader society t-shirts.

this is the time you would think that leader was necessary, you need to step up. you can respect their decisions while also vehemently saying you disagree with them if you choose. if you decide you're going to be a front-facing person, you'll come to the front and lead people. there is a question of how much should we value the opinions of famous people, but the argument could be, you're here. that comes with a measure of responsibility. >> president biden was elected to help end this pandemic, to do better to bring people together, and everything has been very hard. he's got a long list of items on his agenda and he's not checking a lot of boxes. and you know what happens in politics. what goes up must come down, just like his approval rating, sinking while the amount of issues he has to tackle grows. what does this mean for him and for you? we're going to talk big picture

with the oao, van jones, next.

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you think the democratic party realizes that biden's numbers going down and them fighting over price tag politics may have something to do with each other? the house just kicked the debt ceiling trouble to december, but that's not even really checking a box. i don't even know how many of you care about that debt ceiling situation. at the same time we're all likely to be searching for what ship our kids' holiday presents are stuck on, wea've got huge supply chain issues, you got teachers quitting in florida, you got people quitting all over the place. some of it is about the vaccine, some we don't understand. gas is going back up. inflation will be a concern soon. americans, again, look at this graph. this is what i was talking about earlier. why are they quitting their jobs? biden is expected to talk about the economy tomorrow,

specifically these issues. but what does he have to do to get the needle mooving in a positive direction for himself? and is his own party working against him? lots to discuss. the oao, the one and only van jones. it's good to have you. i've never met another one so you are the one and only. >> fair enough. >> the numbers are down. the party is fighting for itself over what should be easy wins. are they connected? >> well, yeah, i think that right now the honeymoon is over. there was a moment where it's like -- goodbye, trump, hello, vaccines, we're so glad to see you, joe biden. that's kind of how this year started. then he actually got stuff done. don't forget, you got 200 million americans who are vaccinated right now. you got 1 trill$1 trillion that-

he was able to move out with the rescue plan. he's doing good stuff. the problem is he made big bold claims about the rest of the agenda. do you think what we did so far is good? wait until next summer when we have other stuff. then he slips on a banana peel and some marbles and people are looking at him in a negative light. can he recover? this time next year if gas prices have gone down, if jobs have gone up, you'll be in a different situation. right now the democratic party is looking over the edge of a cliff, and there is a lot of fear and concern. you're not seeing that strong joe biden leadership that i think people were expecting to get stuff done, to get the next round of stuff done. >> so i would say it is unfair for you to say "they" or that he stepped on the rake, he fell down, because if i were him, i

would be blaming my people in congress for these fights, and not just joe manchin or kyrsten sinema. i would be blaming all of them for making me look bad. however, the last point that you made, where is the joe biden who likes the game, who likes straight talk, who likes to get in people's faces, who likes to talk, period? why don't we see him all the time addressing these things. press conferences, tv shows, where is he? >> when he does that stuff, sometimes people get mad at what he is saying. i think a couple things. number one, the next round of wins that he needs which has to do with getting the bipartisan infrastructure bill done and then getting the progressives something more than that. that's basically the formula. he's sitting on top of the biggest win any president could have, a massive trillion-dollar bipartisan bill that even his

opponent, mitch mcconnell, endorses. they wanted $2.5 trillion more. maybe they should get 2 trillion more. once it's across the finish line, something for the progressives. you're talking about helping grandmas who need hearing aids, you're talking about kids in pre-k. then it's going to look very differently. he needs another legislative win. that has to happen. the gas prices this time next year have to be going back down, jobs have to be going back up. he can get there, but right now you have a major problem because the victory that he promised us this summer has been held up, it's his own midterms. >> where are you on the worry-ometer in terms of midterms? >> he's not getting a great

majority done, so i'm worried. i do fundamentaling think we're going to be a better plars. i'm getting close to herd immunity. if you would stop with delta, and you don't end up with but if any of those four go the wrong way, if cable is up, gas prices are up, we're in very, very deep trouble. >> i think you were in deep trouble, anyway, because you're going up against an opponent. many say it is better to tear the house down than to lead it. i don't really hear democrats saying that in an existential

fashion. these people who you are up against, they are willing to take down the democracy. we've never seen anything like what we just lived through. and you guys can. you're going to get more than just not the worst situation ever. if you'll let us governor earn, you're going to get help for your grand. at some point you've got to be able to cut a deal. i don't know what democrats you're talking to, every democrat i'm talking to is in terms of their willingness to burn the house down. in terms of their willingness to lie about a coup. everyone i know say, guys, it is october. we still have 12 more months

l left. there's no question. i'm just saying. ichk that would be the emergency. the legacy is going cob the only agenda item that mattered was securing the democracy. and you didn't do it. you should have gone to joe manchin from stopping these states to disen franchising a huge number of americans. van jones. >> look, again, there's hype but if you don't think this democracy is being strained in a way that certainly i've never seen in my lifetime.

i'vely been where we are right now. you have half the political system invested in saying our elections are illegitimate. a prominent democrat is calling out fellow lawmakers as insurrectionists. adam schiff. is that a fair point?

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dep dem krocrats on the jany 6th committee are moving because they don't have that much muscling but that talk is getting tough from the democrats. sharp. especially if they were going to say it on the floor of the house if they did, if they said what they're saying outside that floor on the floor they'd get in trouble. listen to this. >> what angered me the most i think about that day were these

insurrectionists in suits and ties who were still even after the bloody insurrection, even after all the shattered glass and the death of that day were back on the house floor trying to overturn the election. >> is kevin mccarthy an insurrectionist in a suit and tie? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> why can't he say that on the floor? house members aren't allowed to insult one another on the floor. it a rule. calling someone an insurrectionists is basic recalling them a felon. can they enforce subpoenas that? will that look like and throw in the word insurrectionists. is that okay? let's bring in a legal mind that knows the player and stakes. norm, always a pleasure, counselor. >> great to be with you, chris. >> professor, am i right that congress does not have the muscle one might expect in terms of enforcing subpoenay pee ?

>> they have the muscle but takes force to exercise it. when i was counsel, we saw how slow the courts were in getting the testimony of don mccann approved, the ex president trump's former white house counsel and getting the documents about trump's finances in the case. it's not the fault of the house, chris. the courts move too slowly but, but there's some differences this time. the committee is moving very quickly. they're not dithering around with negotiations. everything is coming due this month for over a dozen subpoenas that and we heard from chairman adam schiff today on cnn. they're ready to do criminal d contempt and we have history on how fast the lessons can be. >> calling mccarthy or any must

be of congress an insurre insurrectionist, is that a legit the claim? >> i do. you nailed it with my former obama white house colleague van jones in the last segment. this is not your father's republican party. what has happened that the trump big lie has taken over the main stream of the republican party. last week we saw i brought it back with me. we talked about it on the air last week. i carry it with me. we saw the esteemed senate judiciary committee, minority, senators saying that trump did not exercise improper influence on doj or his concerns centered on legitimate complaints, chris. they turned reality upside down. he exercised nine times the majority found. and kevin mccarthy is among the

worst. i welcomed him when i was an am bask -- ambassador to the united states. that's not the kevin mccarthy we know. he's embracing this insurrectionist dogma of ex president trump. it is so dangerous for america if these individuals get power. >> norm, thank you very much for your take both political and legal. appreciate you. we'll take a break and come back with the handoff. this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. this is what it's like to have a comprehensive wealth plan with tax-smart investing strategies designed to help you keep more of what you earn. and set aside more for things like healthcare, or whatever comes down the road. this is the planning effect from fidelity. discover card i just got my cashback match

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telling you, we are all living, you know, the trade statement is you're living in interesting times. we're living in historic times. they will be talking about this period in american history for a long time, and i don't think it's going to be in a good way,

and i really do believe it's a question for each of us and all of us, how do you want to be remembered? where did you make a stand? what were you about? what were you not about? did you live in defiance of? "don lemon tonight" with the big star d. lemon now. >> i think you're right on that if you're on the right side of history, which many on the anti vaccine and anti mask and many on the conservative in the republican party, not on the right side of history now. say that flat out. i heard your conversation in relation to kyrie irving. i heard your conversation in relation to january 6th. falls to the same thing. misinformation and disinformation. >> informationally challenged. >> yeah. >> look, and i don't want to -- look. i respect kyrie irving, what he does or what have you. >> why? >> i respect what he does -- >> you mean he's a basketball player. >> one