>> reporter: finally, really see space for himself. yes, william shatner, you are, indeed, a real-life rocket man. >> i think it's going to be a long, long time. >> reporter: jason carroll, cnn, new york. and thanks so much for joining me. ac 360 starts now. good evening. erin mentioned a bit of this just a moment ago. william shatner, the man who boldly went where no man his age has gone before is now in the record books after his flight into space. the oldest-ever astronaut. not a five-year mission this time. only ten minutes but long enough to he says change his life. >> everybody in the world needs to see. it was unbelievable. unbelievable. i mean, you know, the -- the

little things. weightlessness. but to see the blue color go right by. and now, you're staring at the black. that's the thing. the covering of blue is -- the sheet, this blanket, this -- this kocomforter of blue that w have around. we think oh, that's blue sky. and you rip a sheet off of you when you are asleep and you are looking into blackness. into black ugliness. and you look down. there's the blue down there. and the black up there. and it's -- it's just -- there is mother earth and comfort. and there is -- is there death? i don't know. is that the way death is? and it's gone. jesus. >> more on that journey, shortly. neil degrasse tyson joins us. we begin, though, with breaking news and a countdown perhaps to answers or if answers aren't forthcoming, to consequences. again, perhaps.

the breaking news, another big subpoena from the house select committee on january 6th. it's for jeffrey clark, the justice-department official whom the president wanted to make acting-attorney general as part of his team to overturn the election. the countdown concerns former trump adviser steve bannon and former-pentagon official cash patel, both scheduled to give depositions to the committee tomorrow. bannon, so far, has refused to cooperate. the committee has threatened to bring criminal contempt charges if he and others won't. former-trump tweeter, dan scavino, and former chief of staff mark meadows face a similar deadline friday. the question remains what will the committee do if they don't get cooperation? for days now, members have been talking tough. here is adam schiff on cnn late today. >> we're not willing to allow them to play rope-a-dope in the courts that way. that's why we are going to go straight to criminal contempt and expect the justice department, unlike the last one, to uphold the principle that no one ace a's above the law. no one gets to say i am not going to comply with this

subpoena. in fact, there is something that can be done about it and they can be prosecuted and they could go to jail over it. >> the former president, as you know, has been telling bannon and company not to cooperate with the committee. as for who is counseling him, cnn has learned a number of his dporm former big name lawyers are choosing to sit this one out. others, according to several people familiar with conservative legal circles, are worried that he will stiff them, not pay them. in a statement regarding four attorneys who recently turned him down, the former president says he didn't even know who they are. he added, quote, i do pay my lawyers when they do a good job. all but admitting he tries to stiff them when, in his eyes, they don't. we are joined now by cnn's kaitlan collins with breaking news on his effort to keep documents away from the committee. so what is the late ebb, kaitlan? >> this is a request that the former president has made. about 40 to 50 documents that the january-6th committee has said that they would like to see. documents related to the white house on that day that they believe will help their investigation.

and former-president biden -- or current president biden and this white house have now said that they are not going to be asserting privilege over these documents. and, aroundson, they've made that formal in a letter that was just released by the white house today. it was submitted on friday to the national archives saying they will not be asserting executive privilege over these documents. that the former president wants to keep out of the hands of lawmakers. now, we don't know exactly what's in these documents or why the former president wants to keep them away from the committee that's investigating what happened on january 6th. but we know that that is not an option anymore when it comes to this white house because the president himself and the white house counsel have reviewed these documents. they have said they don't feel it's justified in asserting privilege over those documents which would not let the lawmakers see them. and, anderson, the new thing that's in this letter tonight that was released by the white house is there is now a countdown on this. because in this letter, the president is instructing the national archives, given the urgency of this investigation, to release these documents within 30 days of letting former-president trump know. of course, that key line is the

one right there where it says absent any intervening court order which, of course, is something this white house is expecting potentially from the former president. >> all right. kaitlan, appreciate it. joining us now with more on the capitol hill on the -- that end of the story, cnn's ryan nobles. so what more do we know about the subpoena for jeffrey clark, the former department of justice official? and is there any indication, yet, he is going to cooperate with the committee? >> well, the reason that the select committee needed to take this step of issuing a subpoena, anderson, is because they could not get clark to cooperate. they had been in negotiations with he and his lawyer for several weeks. attempting to negotiate some opportunity for him to hand over the information that they were looking for. and he was just dragging his feet, and they decided they needed to take the serious step of requiring the subpoena to compel him to cooperate with their committee. and in their letter to clark today, they wrote quote, the select committee's investigation has revealed credible evidence that you attempted to involve the department of justice in efforts to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power. and this is, of course, important.

you'll remember that clark was a high-ranking doj official between election day and january 6th. was trying to convince many of the high-level officials in the justice department to investigate these false claims of election fraud. one of the people he was trying to convince was the then-acting attorney general, jeffrey rosen. rosen, of course, rebuffed those claims. would not act on them. interestingly enough, anderson, we learned today that rosen voluntarily cooperated with the committee today. he was interviewed for more than eight hours behind closed doors. a sign that he is giving them the information they're looking for. >> in terms of the subpoena deadlines for other trump aides this week, where do things stand? >> well right now, everything's up in the air because the committee just does not know what to expect in terms of the level of cooperation that they'll get with this round of private depositions scheduled to take place tomorrow and friday. but the committee's made it clear. if any of these four individuals does not comply, they are ready to take the step of criminal contempt. and that could come quickly,

perhaps even as soon as tomorrow night if someone like steve bannon, for instance, does not show up or just outright defies their request. now, each one of these four individuals is either not cooperating or cooperating on different levels. so it's important that we need to look at each one on its own merits. but right now, the committee's made it clear, they are not going to wait around to move to criminal contempt if they feel it's necessary. anderson. >> ryan nobles, appreciate it. thanks for more now on what happens if and when the committee tries to impose consequences for noncompliance, we are joined by cnn contributor, garrett graft. also, elie honig. so, elie, i want to ask you about those subpoenas in a minute. but just regarding the news from kaitlan collins that the white house formally rejected the request to assert executive privilege. absent an intervening court order. do you think this will end -- ultimately, end up with a -- a -- a -- you know, a legal fight? >> i do think it will, anderson. this move by the biden administration puts donald trump

in a very tough spot. now, trump has two options. one, he can do nothing and let it be which means 30 days from now, those documents go over to the committee. or, two, trump can go to court and ask a court to block those documents from going over. but that's a serious uphill climb, legally. because we don't have a definitive answer in the law. but it's fairly clear that while a former president can have some say in executive privilege, generally speaking, it's the current president who gets to decide. that makes sense. we've actually seen barack obama and george w. bush exercise or not exercise executive privilege on behalf of their predecessor. so trump's got a serious uphill climb. it seems the real object here, anderson, is to get it in the courts and delay. and we have seen courts take months, even years, to resolve these disputes in the past. courts need to do better, they need to do it quicker. they need to prioritize if these cases land before them so they don't drag on forever. >> garrett, how big a deal is this? i mean, if the committee does, in fact, get the documents in 30 days, it could include call logs from january 6th, meetings with

top officials, advisers, including rudy giuliani. how significant might it be? >> it could be quite significant because what we are beginning to see sort of across the actions of the january-6th committee over the last week or so is the move to examine the root causes of that insurrection at the capitol on january 6th. and -- and to understand, effectively, the permission structure that was created for the rioters to participate that day. you know, the justice department has done a herculean job bringing, you know, 600-plus criminal charges against defendants who participated in the riot and the insurrection itself. but we haven't actually begun to sequences for the people who enabled, who incited, and who created the mass of disinformation and attempts to actually overthrow the government at the upper levels. and it's important that those people face consequences, and --

and as elie says, face consequences quickly. >> elie, how significant is this subpoena for jeffrey clark? because he's worked at the department of justice. he then was helping then-president trump in his efforts to overturn the election. and there was this meeting today with former-acting attorney general jeffrey rose rn to the investigation. >> yeah, anderson. doj is a central part of the big picture here. and it's enormously significant that jeffrey rosen went in today because the single most valuable weapon donald trump could have had. the most potent weapon in trying to overthrow this election was doj and thankfully, jeffrey rosen and other leaders at doj stood up and said no. and it's significant that he testified for eight hours. that is a long time for one witness. jeffrey clark has some serious problems now. one, the committee is trying to compel him to testify as they should because jeffrey clark tried to commit a fraud. he drafted a letter saying doj has identified concerns about election fraud in georgia. that's just false. and so, jeffrey clark needs to think about potential criminal

exposure here, too. committing a fraud is a -- is a crime. conspiracy a crime. election interference a crime. he has the right to take the fifth. he might be well advised to do that here. >> gary, you have watched the rise and fall of steve bannon. his attorney said he will not cooperate, arguing that he is bound by, quote, executive privileges belonging to president trump. it's obvious, you know, it's dubious because the former president is not the sitting president. bannon was not a white house official in january. what -- he was actually, you know, already -- he was actually charged with something -- with fraud which the president then pardoned him for. what do you think bannon's end game is here? >> i -- i think we -- we mentioned it in the intro to the segment. that the goal here, in almost all cases, is to delay. the -- the hope is that they are able to run out the clock on these investigations. run out the clock on the prosecutions. and -- and basically, get into the midterms where potentially the republicans can take control

of congress and make this whole thing go away. >> elie, all signs are pointing to the committee moving toward criminal contempt charge if bannon doesn't show up for the deposition tomorrow. how likely is it that merrick garland's justice department would approval a criminal-contempt charge? >> yeah. big decision coming from merrick garland. and notably, anderson, adam schiff has been all over the place. putting pressure on merrick garland. he said on our air here on cnn multiple times the reason we couldn't do this in the past is because we had bill barr in the trump doj. on the one hand, how could he not bring charges? it is a federal crime to commit contempt of congress. on the other hand, the history here is actually against charging these cases. nobody's been charged with this criminally in over 50 years and even over the last decade, doj, under both parties, has declined to bring these criminal prosecutions. the question is will merrick garland recognize that we're now in unprecedented territory and do what he has to do to impose some accountability here? >> appreciate it. thanks. coming up next. william shatner's flight.

more of his moving thoughts on it and some thoughts from neil degrasse tyson as well. and later, new research on a different kind of booster showing the benefits of getting a covid booster if you initially got the johnson & johnson shot. why mix and match could be better ahead on "360." about retirementn isn'd because his plan is backed by the team at fidelity. a group of investment professionals manages ben's ira for him, analyzing market conditions and helping him stay on target. he gets one-on-one coaching when he wants some advice, and can adjust his plan whenever he needs to. and now he's so prepared for retirement, ben is feeling totally zen. that's the planning effect from fidelity. sustainability is essential to creating a better tomorrow. that's why cisco is committed to achieving net zero emissions by 2040. and we believe our smart buildings solutions can help. providing power to reduce emissions, intelligence to eliminate waste,

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the most fun i have had recently is talking to william shatner. as you might imagine, it was nothing compared to the fun he had today. >> two, one. the blue origin rocket powering the way, shatner and three crew mates went soaring into space in the suborbital flight. and for him at age 90 is the oldest person to ever make that journey. shatner and company got to experience the weight of the world little rally falling away. something most of us can only dream of. on the uss enterprise, as you

know, gravity was simulated making its five-year mission a lot less fun. perhaps, just a bit less moving than the real thing because as much as "star trek" might have changed william shatner's career, he said this experience changed his life. he spoke for a while when he left the capsule today, and it was an amazing thing to see and here. here is a good bit of it. >> jesus. it was so moving to me. this experience. it's something unbelievable. you see it. yeah. you know, weightless. this is so weird. but not as weird as the covering of blue. this is what i never -- oh, it's one thing to say, oh, the sky and the thing and the fragile -- it's all true. but what isn't true -- what -- what is unknown is -- is this pillow. there's this soft blue. look at the beauty of that

color, and it's so thin. and you're through it in an instant. it's -- how thick is it? is it a mile? two miles? >> depends on how you measure because it thins out. but maybe 50 miles, not even. >> but you are going 2,000 miles an hour. so you're through 50 miles -- whatever the mathematics was. you know, like a beat and a beat and suddenly you're through the blue and you're in black. and you're in -- you know, it's mysterious and galaxies and things. but what you see is black. and what you see down there is light and that's the difference. and not to have this? you have done something. i mean, what all of those other guys are doing. what -- what isn't -- they don't -- i don't know about them. what you have given me is the most profound experience i can imagine. i'm so filled with emotion about what just happened.

i -- i just -- it's extraordinary. extraordinary. i hope i never recover from this. i hope that i can maintain what i feel now. i -- i don't want to lose it. it's so -- it's so much larger than -- than me and life and hasn't have anything to do with the little green planet, the blue orb. it has to do with the enormity and the quickness and the suddenness of life and death and the -- oh, my god. >> beautiful. >> beautiful. yes. beautiful in its way. but -- >> no, i mean your words. >> oh, my words? >> it's just amazing. >> i can't even begin to express what -- i -- i -- what i would love to do is to communicate as much as possible the -- the

jeopardy. the -- the -- the -- the moment you see how vul -- the vulnerability of everything, it's so small. this air which is keeping us alive is -- is thinner than your skin. it's -- it's a -- it's a -- it's a sliver. it's -- it's immeasurably small when you think in terms of the -- of the universe. >> william shatner today experience clearly exceeding expectations he said certainly when we spoke just last week. >> i'm looking forward to the whole thing. i've been there. i was there last week rehearsing. whatever they call it. >> training, i think, is what they call it. but, you know, rehearsing works. >> oh, training? i think of it as rehearsal. i want to go warp speed. take me to warp speed. and -- and they say what? and -- and the weightlessness

absolutely is entrancing. i mean, imagine being weightless and you're thin enough but i'm not. imagine being weightless and staring into that blackness and seeing the earth. and that's what i want to absorb. that's what i want to -- >> it goes by fast, though, you know? because on their flight, on bezos's flight, you know, they were throwing skittles at each other and it looked like a lot of fun. i think i would be -- i would want to be staring out the window the whole time. >> i want to press my nose up against the plastic window. what i don't want to see is somebody else out there looking back at me. no, no, we don't -- we don't want that one. >> oh, my god, that's really funny. um -- >> wouldn't that be funny? >> turned out to be a whole lot more than that. perspective now -- by the way, we are going to talk to william shatner on friday on full circle. our digital show. perspective now from someone who is well acquainted with the

cosmos, neil degrasse tyson. author of a brief welcome to the universe, a pocket-sized tour. neil, you know william shatner. i saw the picture you tweeted today of both you. you wrote godspeed and that he is going to reach mach three on his ascent. which just shows you are a nerd as well as i am. so, i am wondering when you saw his reaction today, he was clearly moved. what did you think? >> yeah. i think we need more people who are not traditional astronauts to go into space because then you will see a much greater range of reactions. yes, and actors who played roles in space and poets. send musicians. send journalists. send people who, when they come back, they can infuse civilization with -- with -- what -- whatever way space has influenced them, which then filters back into life for everyone. and so, i -- i was delighted to see him take this -- this

voyage. >> i want to see amanda gorman going to space, and coming back with some sort of poem that's, you know, amazing. >> yeah. yeah. and i think we're -- we're missing a big part of what civilization could say about being in space. space should not be the -- the perch of the privileged few. or the privileged billionaires. and i see over the coming years, that right now we are bearing witness to the birth of an entire economy. an entire industry. i mean, imagine 100 years ago, you're watching people fiddle over their airplanes trying to turn them into something that can carry more than just one passenger. and i feel the same way. like we're -- we're witnessing the birth of an entire new marketplace. >> the thing that interests me about what jeff bezos is doing with blue origin is this notion he has for building this infrastructure for space and i heard him talk about this. he said he could build amazon because the postal service already existed. fedex already existed. there was an infrastructure.

and he says, you know, if some really smart kid in a dorm room somewhere on a college campus right now has an amazing idea about to do something in space. without an infrastructure, you can't really do it at this stage. and that he hopes to -- to be part of building that infrastructure which i think is -- i mean, if that is actually what he is doing, i think that's a really fascinating concept. >> that's part of the birth of -- of a new entity. by the way, elon musk knew this with his electric cars. you can't give electric cars to everybody if you can't charge them en route to where you're going. so, there are now more than 40,000 electric car charging stations across the country in the united states. so, the -- the -- by the way, the same happened with internal combustion engine cars. you can't have people buying cars, unless there are roads. and you can't have, you know, roads with distance on them unless there are places you can refill. so, the -- he is exactly right. for space to become a next frontier to boldly go to -- to -- it's not the final

frontier, it's just the next frontier. you -- you need all the rest of that infrastructure and that could take time. i would say decades, not centuries, for sure. >> i got to know, would you want to go on blue origin? or -- or any space flight? >> well, so i am an astrophysicist. and so, you know, i do the math and, you know, how high up does blue origin go? relative to a school-room globe, it goes the thickness of two dimes above. and so, for me -- and -- and then, you're boldly going where hundreds have gone before. so for me, i would -- i would get on a spaceship if you're going to take me somewhere. the moon, mars, or beyond. then, there is a destination and -- and that's what i would want. >> just very briefly before we go, all these unidentified craft that have been seen. where -- where do you stand on this? >> it's not a matter of stance. it's -- i've said this before. just look at -- by the way, there are 3 billion smartphones in the world. and each one can take a

high-resolution color video or still picture. and the best evidence we're looking at is monochromatic fuzzy tic tacs on a navy screen? that's -- really? we are crowd sourcing any visitor to earth. i'm just -- i'm looking for better data than that. >> but i mean, the pilots. i interviewed one of the pilots. they seemed completely credible and the things they saw are crazy. >> i'm not saying people aren't credible. okay? you know, as a scientist, you know what the criteria is? are they human? that's all that matters. >> uh-huh. >> if you're human and you see something astonishing, sure. you hear them speak of it and they're pilots and they're used to seeing bogeys and yes, they'll be astonished. that doesn't mean they know what it is. just because you don't know what it is doesn't mean you know what it is. >> all right. >> that's -- and by the way, i think when the aliens come, you don't need fuzzy video to be pointing to. we'll all know. okay? just telling you.

>> neil degrasse tyson, appreciate it. thank you. >> all right. well, there is breaking news involving covid-booster shots. a new study shows it's not only okay to mix and match vaccines, it might actually be better. we'll break it down with cnn medical analyst, dr. leana wen, next. yup! we match all the cash back new card members earn at the end of their first year automatically woo! i got my mo-ney! it's hard to contain yourself isn't it? uh- huh! well let it go! woooo! get a dollar for dollar match at the end of your first year. only from discover. as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? you got it. ♪ liberty, liberty - liberty, liberty ♪ uh, i'll settle for something i can dance to. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ♪ ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪

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found not only is it safe for people to get a covid-19 booster different from the vaccine they initially received but in some cases, it could actually be better. for those who initially got the si single shot johnson & johnson vaccine, a boost from a pfizer or moderna vaccine seem to provide a stronger response. the results of the study have not yet been peer reviewed or published but are expected to be discussed during a meeting of the fda vaccine advisers on friday. joining us to try to make sense of it, dr. leana wen, cnn medical analyst and the author of the book lifelines, a doctor's journey in the fight for public health. so, what were some of your takeaway -- or at least initial ta takeaways from this nih study? >> i think a lot of people have been waiting for this study to find out do they have to take a booster that is the same brand as what they got initially? and so, let's take a look at the study. this is a study that is relatively small. 458 participants. they broke the groups down into nine groups and that is because

there are three groups of individuals who got the pfizer, moderna, and johnson & johnson vaccine. that's three groups who then got the -- the same booster as they got of the initial vaccine. then, they have six additional groups of people who got a different brand than what they got initially. the most important takeaways are two things. one is that all of these different nine combinations are safe, as in there are no new or different side effects so all of these appear to be safe. and then, the second big takeaway is that all of these combinations induced a pretty strong, robust antibody response. so that actually justifies the mix-and-match approach. >> so as you mentioned, the study also shows that people who received the johnson & johnson vaccine got a much higher response after moderna or pfizer booster than if they received a j&j booster. so, just could you walk us through what that -- what it shows? >> right. so up -- up until this point, the 15 million americans who got the one-dose johnson & johnson vaccine really have not gotten any guidance at all. what this study found is that

the people who got a second dose of johnson & johnson had a fourfold increase in the neutralizing antibody response. that's very good. but people who got a second dose that's a pfizer vaccine had 35 times the level of neutralizing antibody increase and who got moderna, had a 76fold increase. and so, i think there are a lot of people who got the j&j vaccine who are now going to be wondering should i get the second dose that's something different than j&j? and again, i know that's something that the fda and cdc will be discussing in detail but this study certainly points in that direction. >> so you were part of the johnson & johnson vaccine trial. seeing this study, would you be getting or will you be getting a booster? and is it possible all those who received j&j could be eligible for one in the future, just simply based on those numbers? >> well, i think there have already been a lot of studies that have shown that people who got the johnson & johnson vaccine are not as well protected as those who got the pfizer and moderna vaccine. and so, i had already decided that i was going to get a

booster. i have not done so, yet. but i have also decided that i am not going to get a second dose of the j&j vaccine and that's because of another reason which is that for women under the age of 50, there is a very rare but very serious side effect that's been associated with the j&j vaccine of a rare but again very serious blood clotting disorder. and so, i think i was already, based on the data from other countries for astrazeneca which is similar to the johnson & johnson vaccine, i was already going to see it would be reasonable to get a pfizer or moderna booster instead of a second j&j booster. but looking at these mix and match results from the nih today, i am even more inclined to get a moderna or pfizer booster buzz because not only is it safe, it appears to be even more effective. >> yeah. i just want to put that last screen back up. i mean, it's remark bl. if you got -- if you have j&j and then you decide to get another j&j as a booster. it's -- it benefits -- it's four-times improvement. but if you get the moderna, it's

76 times improvement and pfizer 35. i mean, that's incredible. >> right. and to be fair, antibody response is not the only measure of immune protection. you also have b cells and t cells that are involved in the immune response and the studies have not looked at effectiveness. as in they are not looking -- they are looking at how much do your antibodies increase? but not how well protected you are against covid-19 so it's not like the pfizer or moderna vaccines are many, many more times effective but you do get this very strong antibody response because antibody response is a correlate of immunity. i think it does -- it should give people a lot of pause at least to consider getting a second dose for people who got the johnson & johnson initial vaccine. >> dr. leana wen, appreciate it. thank you. still ahead, new cnn polling revealing how americans feel about the job president biden is doing and what that could mean for some key governor races coming down the pike as well as some midterm races. we'll be right back.

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new cnn polling out tonight shows americans are divided almost equally over how president biden is doing his job. in the new poll, 50% approve while 49% disapprove of how mr. biden is handling his presidency. it's largely unchanged from a cnn poll conducted in august and september. senior data reporter, harry enten, joins us now. so when you look at the new polling, what do you make of it? and what might it tell us about races in new jersey and virginia coming up? >> i'm confused. i know that might be surprising for me to say but i'm confused

and here's why. we have this -- all this new slew of polling, right? we have the cnn poll, we have a cbs news yougov poll which pretty much agrees, right, that biden's approval rating is at 50%. but if you average all the of polls, not just those two polls, what you see is biden's approval rating is just 45% and his disapproval rating is six points higher so that creates a net of minus six. you can see there is a bunch of different polling there giving you essentially different results. why is that important? because take a look at last year's presidential results in virginia and new jersey versus the nation. what do you see? you see that virginia and jersey are significantly more democratic than the united states is. so if, let's say, the cnn/ssrs poll is right and biden's net approval rating is essentially even or plus one, there is basically no shot that the democrats lose in those two governors' races, in either virginia and new jersey. but if in fact, the other polling is right and, let's say, biden is underwater then especially in virginia,

democrats might be in a bitf of trouble. >> as always, be aware of polling. be aware of outliers. average, average, average, and look, take the widest margin of error you possibly can because in that particular case, i can never be wrong. >> there is also insight into how americans feel about the infrastructure and larger social spending bills in congress right now. what can you tell about the differences? >> yeah. look. here is the bottom line. the democrats have to pass something if they want to satisfy their own voters. and here's essentially why. if you look at the polling, what you essentially see is that, look. enact all of it, right? enact the whole big package, the $3.5 trillion. look at that. 75% of democrats like that. 20% of democrats say, you know what? enact fewer proposals for less cost. but only 4% say enact nothing. so, you got to enact something if you're the democrats and you want to satisfy your own voters. even among the electorate at large, look. enact nothing is just at 29%. now, why is that important looking forward to both virginia and new jersey? here is the reason why. democratic voters seem less

motivated this particular point than republicans are because look at the likely voters in virginia. plus three, terry mcauliffe. that is a much smaller lead than among registered voters where it's plus six. even in new jersey, look at that. you actually have a pretty competitive race if you just look at the voters who have voted in each of the last few elections, versus among all registered voters, it's plus 13 murphy. so essentially, you want to make sure those democrats right now who aren't that enthusiastic get off the bench and the way to do that is actually pass legislation that democratic voters like. >> historically, do the races -- these races tell us much about what is going to happen in midterms? >> yes, especially, in virginia. look. if you look back and if you go all the way back to the late '70s, long before i was born although i believe you were alive at that particular point. >> you hurt me, harry. >> i might have hurt you a little but the bottom line is -- the bottom line is that eight out of the last 11 times, the winner in the virginia gubernatorial race, right, that side wins house seats -- gains house seats in the next midterm. so, yeah, i'll be looking at

virginia, and especially if it's close. look. the bottom line in virginia is it's such a democratic state so if that race is close, that's a bad sign for democrats. if in fact they want to be in a good position looking forward to next year. >> what year were you born, harry enten? >> i'm sorry, i do not give that away. i'm somewhere between 25 and 34 years old. you know, i click that on the polling dial. but i'll say this. my father was born in 1927. and he -- i was born when he was in his 60s. so that, i think, gives you an understanding both into my personality and why i kind of sound like an old jew. but also, in my actual age. >> a lot to chew on. harry enten, thank you. appreciate it. >> thank you, i got to get home and fix the flooding in my apartment. up next, the tough spot texas governor greg abbott is putting businesses in. his state in over -- over his ban on vaccine mandates see why an attorney for texas's largest county says that businesses should sue the governor. ♪ (peaceful music) ♪

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banned vaccine mandates in the state. including at private businesses. the move is aimed at president biden's vaccine requirement for companies doing business with the government, among others. texas businesses now must decide who to comply with. already, southwest and american airlines both based in texas have said they will evade the federal mandate. an attorney for the largest county in the state, harris county, says governor abbott's move puts lives at risk. he is calling on texans to take legal action against the governor. said in a statement on tuesday, this is mostly a political bluster designed to create confusion and subject businesses to burdensome lawsuits which can only slow down our economic recovery. i encourage texas businessowners who believe in science and the rule of law to sue governor abbott and join harris county and other cities and school districts fighting back against his overreach. thanks so much for being with us. can you explain why you are encouraging businesses to sue over this ban? >> thank you, anderson, i am happy to be here. this is not our first rodeo with governor abbott exceeding his legal authority, and issuing

these bans. he issued a ban on mask mandates, right on the cusp of schools opening back up in the state of texas. school local governments were prohibited from doing the same. what we've seen is the governor is not going to respect the people, he's not going to respect the law, which is very limited in when he can issue executive orders. one thing he's going to have to respect is the will of the courts. i'm calling on texas business owners to file these lawsuits because that's exactly what we did in local government when the governor previously issued these bans on various measures to stop the spread of covid. we filed lawsuits, school districts filed lawsuits, cities across the state filed lawsuits. i think it's time for businesses to get into the game as well. >> are you planning on bringing legal action on this ban on vaccine mandates? >> the good news is our pending lawsuit against the governor in the attorney general right now already addresses the overreaching question which is, does the governor have the legal authority under texas' disaster act to issue these executive orders. if the texas supreme court finds

that the answer is no, and we hope that they will, then it means that none of these executive orders that he's using to tie the hands of local officials and businesses have any legal merit. so we're confident that with the lawsuit we have in place right now, we'll be able to get these questions answered by the courts. >> back in august a spokesperson for governor abbott said businesses did have the option for mandating vaccines because, and i'm quoting, private businesses don't need government running their business. what's changed between then and now for the the governor, do you think? >> he has gotten two high profile primary opponents in his race for reelection. this is an ongoing pandemic. people are dying across the state. texas is second in the nation in deaths from covid-19. this is a very serious matter. we shouldn't be playing politics with it. but the only thing that's changed between now and the time period that the governor made that statement is that he has primary opponents who are pulling him to the right. he's now tried to push a message to a very small and specific base in the state of texas that

are against various measures to keep folks safe during covid-19. it's wrong. local governments are doing everything we can, as are school districts. there are many businesses across the state who are seeking to do the exact safme thing. there's already been statements released by local business organizations in houston. nobody is in support of this. it's pretty obvious the governor is doing it for political reasons. >> businesses that decide to follow the federal government mandate as opposed to what the governor wants, could they potentially face financial penalties for defying the state? >> absolutely. and that's what makes the governor's order such nonsense. it purports to ban any entity in the state of texas from issuing any type of vaccine mandates. but we know there are entities in texas that are compromised of 100% federal employees. there are entities like nursing homes that have to get federal dollars and in order to do so, they have to comply with federal rules. this order was intended to confuse businesses so they don't

know whether they should follow the federal rules or the state rules. but it's not good policy. it's not good leadership. especially at a time like this when we're dealing with a pandemic. >> when are you expecting your lawsuit to be ruled on? >> well, we originally teed this up to the texas supreme court months ago because we were trying to get an order before school started but they have since punted on the issue and it was put back down to the lower courts. we're now in the appellate courts in the state. many of these cases, we expect, will be before the texas supreme court in the coming weeks. we're hopeful with counties across the state, cities across the state, parent groups, student groups, and school districts all binding together to fight the governor's overreach, the courts will do the right thing and rein the governor in. >> thanks very much. coming up, why william shatner was, is, and always will be a rocket man. bogeys on your six, limu. they need customized car insurance

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any hour that starts and ends with william shatner as a good one, we think, these days.

here is his rendition way back when of elton john's "rocket man." >> she packed my bags last night, preflight. zero hour. 9:00 a.m. and i'm going to be high as a kite by then. i miss the earth so much. i miss my wife. it's lonely out in space. i think it's going to be a long, long time 'til touchdown brings

me around to find i'm not the man they think i am at home. oh, no, no, no. i'm a rocket man. rocket man, burning out his fumes out here alone. and i think it's gonna be a long, long time 'til touchdown brings me around again to find i'm not the man they think i am at home. oh, no, no, no. i'm a rocket man. rocket man, burning out his fuse out here alone. and i think it's going to be a long, long time. and i think it's gonna be a long, long time. and i think it's gonna be a long, long time.

and i think it's gonna be a long, long time. and i think it's gonna be a long, long time. >> saturn awards, 1978. the news continues with "cuomo prime time." >> strong cigarette game he had in that, where he held it, looking at it. looking at it is key. >> a lot of looking there. >> then talking out. >> he's got a new spoken word album out, in case you didn't know. >> he is on the show with me tomorrow night. is there any song that you would like to have him speak? >> well, he has a new album out so he very well might want to speak something of that. >> but i want to give him something he doesn't have on his album. >> try "rocket man" again. >> that's very original, coop.