shared truths. if there is a way forward, it won't be found within the comfort of our own virtual bubbles. but in the open, transparent, and sometimes uncomfortable exchange of ideas. hello and welcome to our viewers joining us here in the united states and all around the world. you are watching "cnn newsroom" and i'm rosemary church. just ahead. details on the hunt for kidnapped missionaries in haiti. now that a source there says police believe they know who's responsible. plus, disappointing economic news out of china. we are live in hong kong with the latest. and promising signs that the u.s. is gaining ground in the war on covid. but dr. fauci says, not so fast.

live from cnn center, this is "cnn newsroom" with rosemary church. thanks for joining us. well, we are learning new details about the kidnapping of a group of missionaries in haiti, and the gang that haitian security forces say is behind it. 16 americans and one canadian were abducted on saturday after visiting an orphanage east of port-au-prince. the u.s. organization, christian aid ministry, says five children were among the group. a haitian security source says a powerful gang called 400 mawozo is believed to be responsible, and has a history of kidnappings. journalist stefano pozzebon is tracking developments, and joins us now, live. good to see you, stefano. so, what more are you learning about this kidnapping? and of course, the group authorities say is behind it?

>> reporter: yes, rosemary. it came to no surprise that the haitian authorities believe that the powerful gang, the 400 mawozo are behind these shocking kidnapping that occurred early on saturday. the gang, 400 mawozo, are one of the largest and most fearsome organized crime groups in the underworld of port-au-prince. the capital of haiti. and it so often happens in this part of the world, in latin america and the caribbean, organized crime group exercise territorial control of neighborhoods and slums around the major city. that means that they control whoever enters, whoever gets out, the local racketeering, trafficking of drugs, and in this case kidnapping for ransom. as that group of christian

missionaries from north america were visiting an orphanage in an area that is known to be controlled by the gang. it's a neighborhood north of port-a port-au-prince. the local authorities believe that these one, which was one of the most powerful and fearsome gangs in haiti are behind the kidnappings. and as a sign of how the situation in haiti really has been deteriorating, rosemary, over the last few months. this gang is also responsible -- according to local authorities -- for the kidnappings of a group of truck drivers from the dominican republic just a few months ago. with gangs who are more and more daring in their criminal action, getting to the point of kidnapping an entire group of western missionaries. and the situation is deteriorating. and in fact, haitian people --

local people have started -- on their hands, rosemary. >> yeah, stefano, i mean, this is a big problem there, isn't it? there are union calls for a strike to protest this spike in kidnappings. what is the latest on that? >> reporter: yes, correct, rosemary. we're waiting -- in a few hours in port-au-prince, one of the leading transport workers the union will be leading an indefinite strike against the rising of violence and kidnappings of drivers and workers who work in transportation are among the group that are most targeted for ransom kidnapping in haiti. but the fact that these union has called for a strike to put pressure on authorities to take the bull in the horns and try to stem off the rising violence show you, rosemary, that these latest accident involving 17

north american has only brought to the forefront a situation that has been felt tragically by every haitian and most foreigners who live in haiti over the last few years. with the security situation deteriorating due to corruption, mismanagement, economic vices, and natural calamities. and just this summer, the tragic homicide of former-president jovenel moise. all of these come together to create a power vacuum in port-au-prince and the rest of the country that these gangs have only been too eager to occupy with that fact brought forward in this tragic development. and in frantic hours, authorities telling cnn that the fbi is working around the clock to try to bring those 16

american and one canadian citizen back home. but the authorities don't have, still, an idea of where these missionaries might be, rosemary. >> yeah. that is a problem, indeed. stefano pozzebon bringing us up to date on the situation. appro many thanks. well, officials in haiti are in touch with canadian authorities, as well as the u.s. state department. in the urgent search to locate the missionaries. cnn's kylie atwood has more from washington. >> reporter: a christian aid organization based in ohio confirming that there were 16 americans and one canadian. 17 in total, missionaries in haiti who were abducted by a gang over the weekend. now, there were there working at an orphanage. they were kidnapped when they were doing the work leaving that orphanage, headed to a place just north of port-au-prince. now, i am told the u.s. government, according to a senior-u.s. government official, doesn't know the current location of those americans who have been kidnapped. they are working around the

clock. state department officials, fbi officials, to try and figure out where they are. and of course, how to secure their release. now, officially, the state department spokesperson's saying that they are aware of the reports, not going much further with regard to details. we are waiting to see if the white house comments on this. but the state department travel advisory for haiti says do not travel. that is for all americans. they suggest they don't travel to haiti, particularly because of these kidnappings. that travel advisory cites kidnappings. and we should note that kidnappings in haiti have been on the rise in the last few months. since july, they have risen 300%. and of course, that doesn't include this latest development over the weekend with these 16 americans kidnapped. kylie atwood, cnn, the state department. and as we heard, the kidnapping of 17 missionaries in haiti -- it's just the latest in a surge of lawlessness being fueled by gangs, specifically the 400 mawozo.

earlier, we spoke about the deteriorating security situation with amy. author and contributing editor of "the nation." >> of course, they're territorial, like any gang. so -- and there are many of them. there are big gangs and little gangs. this happens to be the one involved in this incident, a very, very big gang that has -- um -- branches throughout haiti. it's one of the biggest employers in haiti right now, other than the government. and all the gangs put together are probably the second biggest employer right now in haiti. and that's the kind of situation the economy is in. but behind that, um, these -- these gangs have -- um -- you know, undercover relationships with political figures, political parties. and this is not new in haiti but it -- it's way worse than it's ever been. and these are real -- real gangs with heavy weapons and -- and real vehicles that they can take

anywhere, they have tons of suvs. and it's a very scary situation. the extradition of a colombian businessman is fueling the latest standoff between the u.s. and venezuela. alex saab is due in a florida court in the coming hours as he faces charges of money laundering. he is a close aide to venezuelan strong man nicolas maduro and maduro sporters are protesting the extradition. meanwhile, venezuela appears to be retaliating against a group of detained americans. cnn's raphael romo has more on the fate of the citgo 6. >> the group of five u.s. citizens and one permanent u.s. resident were in prison only hours after a businessman close to the president was extradited from cape verde to the united states. leading many to think that it was a retaliation move by venezuela's socialist regime. the group is known as the citgo 6 because they are all former

executives of the citgo petroleum corporation. they were arrested in 2017 on embezzlement charges which they deny and had been under house arrest since may. two attorneys who have been working to get all six released told cnn sunday that they are now being held at the prison in caracas, the capitol. this is the same prison where -- considered by many a political prisoner -- died tuesday of covid-19. according to the coalition for human rights, an ngo, 20 inmates have tested positive for the virus at the prison where the citgo 6 are now being held. the family of one of the six posted a video where he says he was afraid that if taken to prison again, it would be under the worst conditions possible. he also said he wanted to record his testimony because he was very worried. many in the venezuelan opposition say this is nothing more than a retaliation move for

alex saab's extradition saturday from cape verde to the united states. saab is a colombian businessman close to maduro who is expected to appear in court monday in florida after being indicted in the u.s. he also faces money laundering and fraud charges in his native colombia. why is the venezuelan government protesting his extradition? because it means that one of president maduro's closest confidants may be available for interrogation by u.s. authorities. someone who knows the ins and outs of a totalitarian regime. raphael romo, cnn mexico city. britain's parliament will pay tribute to mp david amess in the house of commons in the coming hours. members are also expected to discuss what can be done to prevent a tragedy like his murder from happening again. sir david was fatally stabbed while meeting with his constituents on friday in england. police are treating the case as

a terrorist incident. the suspect was arrested at the scene. a government source says he is a 25-year-old british national of somali heritage. amess's family, meantime, has released a statement about his brutal killing. they said -- and i am quoting -- the family would like to thank everyone for the wonderful, wonderful tributes paid to david following his cruel and violent death. it truly has brought us so much comfort. the support shown by friends, constituents, and the general public alike has been so overwhelming. as a family, it has given us strength. well, the taiwan strait remains a flashpoint between the u.s. and china. and this time, canada's getting involved. beijing is furious after reports the u.s. and canada each sent a warship into the strait last week. the people's liberation army says the move threatens peace

and security. this latest round of gun boat diplomacy comes after china's own show of force. beijing has flown dozens of warplanes near taiwan in recent weeks. meantime, china's economy grew only 4.9% in the third quarter. its weakest expansion in a year. the country has been able to rebound from pandemic difficulties but seems to be losing steam amid a multitude of problems, including supply chain issues, covid outbreaks, and energy shortages. cnn's chrkristie lu stout joins now live from hong kong with the latest on this. good to see you, christi. so let's look a little closer at what's behind china's rate of expansion in a year and what an impact this will likely have on the region and indeed the world. >> well, the global economic growth is slowing down. was confirmed last week when the imf released its report. and then, today, we have learned

that china is announcing that its economy is slowing down through the form of this third-quarter gdp report. it announced earlier today that its economy grew 4.9% in the third quarter compared to the same period a year ago. that is a sharp slowdown from the 7.9% growth it achieved in the previous quarter. china is facing quite a number of economic challenges. you have weak consumer spending due, in part, to ongoing delta flare-ups throughout the country. you also have the energy crisis, which is worsening due to the record-high prices of coal. it's china's main source of energy. as a result, there have been power outages across china that has forced china to ration electricity in 20 provinces. it's also forced factories to suspend production which has been a hit on industrial production inside the country. and on top of that, you have the evergrande debt crisis. evergrande is of course china's most heavily indebted developer with over $300 billion worth of

liabilities and its fate and future has been weighing on global markets, and causing a lot of concern about a potential spillover effect into the real estate market in china, which is equivalent to about 30% of china's gdp. and also, its impact on the greater economy. before today's third-quarter gdp -- um -- report came out, already across the region were revising downwards their economic forecasts for china, including aden yao, he is a senior economist. take a listen to this. >> i think the data suggest that there are multiple headwinds facing the chinese economy at the moment. some of which are temporary. um, some of them could be more long lasting. i think the -- the key long-term challenge is the housing market crackdown. >> now, earlier today, we did hear from the spokesperson of china's national bureau statistics and he insisted that china's property market will be able to maintain steady growth. last week, we heard from china's

premiere who acknowledged these economic challenges that china is facing, and said that china has the tools to be able to cope with these challenges. rosemary. >> all right. many thanks kristie lu stout joining us live from hong kong pt appreciate it. still to come, the u.s. is making progress against the coronavirus. but with winter approaching, experts say those gains could disappear. plus, former-u.s. president bill clinton is now out of the hospital. what his doctors are saying about his recovery from sepsis. it feels amazing. when you get a great offer in seconds... (all cheering) it feels too good to be true. it's kicking back and relaxing as we pick up your car. and when you get paid on the spot, it feels like scoring big. you know the feeling. you just never imagined you could get it from selling your car. well, with carvana, you can. experience the new way to sell a car. [♪]

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the u.s. is gaining ground in its fight against covid-19. the rate of new cases is improving. fewer covid patients are in hospitals, and deaths are down compare today a month ago. plus, the cdc says 57% of americans are now fully vaccinated. but winter is on the way which means more people gathering indoors. it's also cold and flu season. dr. anthony fauci says we could see another coronavirus surge if more people don't get

vaccinated. >> we're going in the right direction. the problem is, as we all know, we still have approximately 66 million people who are eligible to be vaccinated who are not vaccinated. the degree to which we continue to come down in that slope will depend on how well we do about getting more people vaccinated. >> and dr. fauci also says americans can enjoy the holidays with family this year if everyone is fully vaccinated. joining me now from los angeles is dr. jorge rodriguez. he is a bort certified internal medicine specialist and viral researcher. thank you, doctor, for all that you do. >> thank you, rosemary. glad to be here. >> so according to cdc data, 57% of the u.s. population is fully vaccinated against covid-19 which is nearly 67% of eligible americans, 12 years and older. and 35 states have fully vaccinated more than half of

their residents. and as we just heard from dr. fauci, he says we are heading in the right direction. but 66 million americans are still not vaccinated. so, how do we encourage more people to get their shots? and do we need to learn to live with covid? >> well, um, let's start off by -- i -- i know that dr. anthony fauci and everybody's trying to put a positive spin on this. but when you look at this, that is not a good number. and i think we just need to be realistic. right now, yes, things are better but we still have 85,000 -- um -- you know, cases a day. and if this starts ramping up when we're at this high level, we are in deep trouble for -- for the winter. so, 57% or whatever, you know, it is total vaccination, you know, that's an f. there are other countries that are at 100%. portugal, for example. australia just opened up. um, their vaccination program a few months ago and they are at 80%. so, we can do better. we must do better.

and are we going to have to learn to live with covid? to some dwregree. i think that everybody that is in science is in agreement that this is going to become an endemic infection, meaning that it is not going to be all over the world, eventually. but it will be in hot spots so we are going to have to learn that sometimes it's going to flare-up where we live and we are going to have to have more restrictions unless people, you know, just sort of, like, ante up, man, and start taking this v vaccine here in the united states. >> yeah. i don't know why some people are so afraid to get that shot. it is extraordinary. and, doctor, an fda advisory panel recommends that the 14 million people who got the johnson & johnson vaccine need to get a second dose after two months. what's your reaction to this? and does it mean that all those who got their first j&j shot many months ago are maybe no longer protected against the virus? >> well, my first reaction it is about time that they recommend

that because studies are showing that six or seven months after, you know, the -- the people that have gotten the j&j vaccine, their protection may be down to 3%. maybe, in the single digits. and people are saying well, you know, those vaccines don't work. and the correct response is, wow, look how great science is that they are able to get us this information so quickly so that we can do something about it. so, yes, the recommendation by the fda panel is that anyone who has had a johnson & johnson vaccine at least two months ago will require another booster. anyone of any age of any disease state, immune compromised or not. >> and, doctor, an nih study shows that mixing and matching booster shots could be effective. so, would it make better sense perhaps for recipients of the first j&j shot to get a moderna or pfizer booster, instead of the j&j option? >> well, you know what? that -- the -- the final verdict on that is still out.

um, i know a lot of people have gone ahead and -- and gotten it. you know, even though that isn't the recommendation. right now, they should follow the recommendation. in the future, when we know more -- when we know more, the recommendation may be hey, you can mix and match if you had johnson & johnson or pfizer and you get a moderna, that's really going to increase your booster. again, it is incredible that we are getting this information in real-time. but right now, if the fda approves it and if the cdc approves it, people that got j&j should get their j&j booster fairly soon. >> and of course, we know 65 and above have been receiving their booster shots. dr. fauci's said that there is promising evidence from israel that those between the ages of 40 and 60 years of age benefit from getting a booster shot of moderna or pfizer. do you agree with that? >> oh, i wholeheartedly agree with that. i actually think that the data is going to show that people even younger than that should get the booster.

at first, people didn't get the vaccines -- not all people got the vaccines because we were limited as to how many we had. so we gave it to the populations that were at greatest risk. now, that people have gotten the vaccines, i think it doesn't matter your age. if there is a surplus of vaccination, which some of these countries -- some of our countries are very, you know, lucky to have that -- then the booster should be given to anyone. and it's the time span since the last booster that should be the determinant. if there is a surplus and enough to go around. >> dr. jorge rodriguez, always great to talk with you. many thanks. well, former-u.s. president bill clinton is now recovering at home after spending five days in a california hospital. he was treated for sepsis after a urinary tract infection spread to his bloodstream. clinton was seen walking out of the hospital sunday morning along with his wife, former secretary of state hillary clinton. he gave a thumbs up when someone

asked how he was feeling. well, days of rain have led to deadly flooding and landslides in southern india. we will have a live update from the cnn weather center on when the rain might let up. we're back in just a moment. facing expensive vitamin c creams with dull results? olay brightens it up with new olay vitamin c. gives you two times brighter skin. hydrates better than the $400 cream.

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we built the recycling system from the ground up, helping san francisco become the first city in the country to have a universal recycling and composting program for residents and businesses. but it all starts with you. let's keep making a differene together. rescue operations are underway in india after deadly flooding. at least 22 people have been killed after landslides were triggered by days of rain. the indian military is flying in emergency supplies and personnel to the hardest-hit areas.

and cnn meteorologist pedram javaheri has been watching this very closely. pedram, what are you seeing? >> rosemary, you know, we are going on four consecutive years we've had flooding across this state take place. and unfortunately, this has been happening every single year, typically in the month of august. this time around, we are seeing it in the month of october as the monsoons culminate here with tremendous amount of rainfall that is kind of ushered in across this region and we have had a disturbance just offshore that has fueled the monsoonal moisture in place. but you see the images here in recent days. rainfall amount estimates are somewhere between 2 to 300 millimeters and again, when you bring that much rainfall down in a matter of just a couple of days or in some cases, a matter of just a couple of hours, it quickly becomes problematic. but there is the culprit. across the arabian sea, we do have a system parked offshore. again, ushering in that tropical moisture and this is the concern moving forward because we do expect the monsoons to gradually shift a little farther towards the south. the hatch line here indicative

of where the moisture typically is this time of year. and all of that, again, by the month of november typically moves out of here. but if you take a look, 90% across portions of india. 90% of the annual rainfall comes down during the monsoon season. so seeing heavy rainfall this time of year is not unusual. but the amounts of it, again, in the matter of a few days across portions of the south and west have been really the most problematic. and the concern here is that the forecast does keep about a 60 to 80% chance for rainfall each of the next three days, across this region. we don't expect it to be quite as heavy, but it is certainly going to continue. notice off toward the north and east, another round of heavy rainfall across eastern areas of india into portions of bangladesh as well set to continue, rosemary. and rainfall amounts here could even be more significant, 2 to 300 millimeters expect today come down so the monsoon certainly going out with a bang across portions of india. rosy. >> pedram, thank you so much for keeping a very close eye on all of that. appreciate it. well, space travel seems to be the hot new trend this season. coming up, we will talk with a

veteran astronaut about the worldwide space race and whether he believes in aliens and flying saucers. back with that, in just a moment. to a job that feels like home. with home instead, you too can become a caregiver to older adults. apply today. constipated? set yourself free with fleet. gentle constipation relief in minutes. little fleet. big relief. try it. feel it. feel that fleet feeling.

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retired u.s. astronaut scott kelly first went to space more than 20 years ago. and between 2015 and 2016, kelly spent nearly a year aboard the international space station. he's been at the dubai 2020 expo, and spoke with cnn's scott mclean about politics, living without gravity, and sending tourists to space. >> i just wonder if you think that all of this focus that we have right now on space tourism and commercial flight is sort of detracting from the broader goals that humans have in space? >> i know it's cliche but space is pretty big. i think there's room for both. you know? i think, you know, governments can do the hard stuff. you know, go back to the moon,

go to mars. companies, like, you know, spacex, blue origin, other -- maybe others that -- um -- you know, are just getting started can, you know, take over access to lower-earth orbit. and build a space station. um, and then that, you know, frees up the resources for the governments to do the harder things. >> should we be sending people to live on other planets? >> i would see, someday, people living on mars. now, me, personally, having spent nearly a year in a module inside, would not want to spend the rest of my life on mars. but i would certainly be willing to visit as long as i had a pretty good chance of coming home. >> reporter: even if it took you a year or two to get there? >> i can do two years, no problem. >> reporter: russia is planning to start their own space station. china is doing its own thing. the emiratis are sending a probe to mars.

do you think that the era where everyone was sort of a big, happy family of earthlings out in space, do you think that era is passed? >> no, i think it still kind of exists on the international space station. i mean, i've spent -- um -- you know, 5 -- over 500 days in space with cosmonauts, russian guys. you know, people that their government, their country, we sometimes don't get along with very well. sometimes, we get along with 'em better. but it never -- those, you know, earthly political tensions never transmit to space because what's important to us is, you know, supporting each other, being friends, helping each other with our jobs, and literally relying on each other for our lives. >> but if the russians leave, you might not have that same kind of dynamic with countries that maybe don't get along on earth up in space. >> i don't think they'll leave. >> really? >> no. >> you think that they're bluffing? >> every few years, they say

they're going to leave and so far, they haven't. >> do you think that the united states should be inviting china onto the international space station? >> that's -- that's a complex question. >> why? >> it's a political question. because there's a -- you know, our government has, you know, issues with human rights. violations. you know, issues with, you know, technology transfer or -- um -- so that's the challenge there. >> reporter: the government has similar issues with the russians. >> our government does. yeah. >> yeah. >> but -- >> alexei navalny. about a. >> yeah, exactly. but i am not -- i don't work for the government so it's not for me to decide. >> but just broadly speaking, wouldn't it be nice for sort of global cooperation to have everyone onboard and kind of put their earth -- earth differences aside? >> i think it would be, yes. but that's not for me to decide. >> got ya. so, if you were making the decisions, you would invite the

chinese? >> i'm not saying that. i would have to look into it more, and understand more the issues involved. >> do you believe in ufos? >> you mean, like, aliens and like flying saucers that visit this planet? >> yeah. >> no. >> why not? >> because i don't believe in it. you think the distances are too great, the physics involved are, you know, the nearest earth-like planet if we went as fast as we could would take 80,000 years to get there. >> so you haven't seen any piece of video that convinces you otherwise? everything is explainable? >> when you are flying many space, flying in an airplane in certain weather conditions, there are a lot of optical illusions so i think -- i'm not saying people -- especially, the military people that claim to see something that doesn't make sense as far as their understanding of technology -- i'm not doubting that that's what they think they saw. but i'm very skeptical that that is some kind of alien spacecraft. i think it's a little outrageous

to be honest with you. >> someone asked you on twitter in january if you would run for the u.s. senate in texas versus ted cruz. and you said hmm, maybe. were you joking? >> yeah, i was joking. >> you are never running for the senate? >> i was joking. my brother's the senator. that is not me. sometimes, confused with me but he's the u.s. senator from arizona. >> reporter: but i just want to clarify 100%, you will never run for u.s. senate in texas? >> i would never say never on just about anything. >> you might run for u.s. senate in texas ? >> i am not saying that. >> should they take if down from your wikipedia page. >> >> someone should probably remove that from my wikipedia page. definitely not 2024. >> thanks for joining us here on c cnn "newsroom." world sport next for international viewers and for viewers in the u.s., i'll be right back with more news. stick around. topical pain relief ingredient. it's clinically proven, reduces inflammation and comes in original prescription strength.

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♪ the house committee investigating the january 6th insurrection is planning to vote this week on whether to pursue criminal contempt charges against steve bannon. the trump loyalist is refusing

to comply with a subpoena from the committee. he claims he can't testify or provide documents because former-president trump is covered by executive privilege. legal experts dispute that. cnn's tom foreman has more. >> reporter: he is not ready to speak to congress about the violence of january 6th but steve bannon is talking plenty on his daily podcast. whipping his followers into a frenzy. >> elections have consequences. stolen elections have catastrophic consequences and that's what we're seeing in this country right now. and we need your blood to boil. we need to be in a situation you are not going to back down. okay? >> reporter: he's done it all along. he appeared to confirm reports that just days before the insurrection, he was on the phone with donald trump discussing how to kill the biden presidency in the crib. >> yeah because legitimacy, 42% of the american people. 4-2% of the american people think that biden did not win the presidency legitimately.

we told you from the very beginning, just expose it. just expose it. never back down. never give up. and this thing will implode. >> reporter: promoting the big lie of election fraud fits bannon's longstanding affection for radical right-wing theories, and his apparent appetite for conflict. >> if you think they're going to give you your country back without a fight, you are sadly mistaken. >> reporter: take his fascination with the book "the fourth turning" which argues every 80 years or so, cataclysmic upheavals are necessary to political and social realignment. >> turns are like the seasons. every turning is necessary. >> reporter: bannon was so taken with the idea, he made a movie about it. savaging liberals, blasting traditional government, and as one film critic put it, pushing a clear message. >> bring on the apocalypse. there is an almost fetishistic desire to see everything blow up. it's almost like he's inviting a cleansing fire to -- to just

raise the edifice, raise the institutions. i think it's that dramatic. >> steve bannon is out here. >> reporter: bannon's turns in the spotlight have not always thrilled his most famous boss who is reportedly annoyed when bannon showed up on the cover of "time" which trump clearly craves. he was pushed out of trump's immediate orbit, but never far away. >> i would love to know what advice you would give to donald trump if he didn't leave even after he lost? because i saw hillary clinton -- >> you're obsessed with this. >> i am obsessed with it. >> why you think he is not going to leave? because he is an insane narcissist. >> reporter: since the uprising, bannon has been firmly in the losing candidate's corner trodding out guests to suggest the work was antifa and undercover federal agents. >> 226 antifa members were tasked with making that -- what should have been a peaceful protest a -- a riot.

>> reporter: and insisting prosecutors are dead wrong to say these are trump's and his people. >> either, they're totally incompetent or they are lying to you. right? they are either totally incompetent or they are lying to you. they're either totally incompetent or they are lying to you. pick 'em. >> reporter: there are no facts to bangto back that up but listo bannon's podcast. watch his interviews and you will see he has very little use for facts, unless they support this notion that america as we know it must end so america as he would have it can begin. tom foreman, cnn, washington. and while the house committee decides how to deal with bannon, some members are not ruling out the possibility of issuing a subpoena to trump, himself. >> if we subpoena all the sudden the former president, we know that's going to become kind of a circus so that's not necessarily something we want to do upfront.

but if he has a piece of information we need, we certainly will. >> one thing we are very uniform on -- democrats and republicans on the select committee -- is that no one is off the table. we will go where we need to go to get the evidence that we need to present to the american people, and write a definitive report of the terror of that day and what we need to do to protect the country going forward. and one of the biggest black boxes in terms of the unknowns is donald trump's role. retired u.s. army officer alexander vinburn was a key witness in donald trump's first impeachment trial. he testified about trump's role in getting ukraine to help trump. >> if trump and his cronies are not held accountable, this becomes a rehearsal for a future

insurrection. we need accountability to deal with the criminal activity from the previous administration to be able to expose the big lie of stolen elections, to expose the president's wrongdoing, to expose the corruption of his proxies. if we do that, we could start chipping away at the big lie. we could start bringing the country back together and with that move ahead. without accountability, we can't do that. >> joining me from los angeles is jessica levenson. she is a professor of law at loyola law school and the host of "the passing judgment" podcast. great to have you with us. >> great to be here. >> so the january 6th committee will begin the process of holding steve bannon in criminal contempt this week for refusing to comply with his subpoena because he's unwilling to talk to congress about what he said to former president donald trump

ahead of the violence. despite being fired, bannon claims his conversations with the former president are protected under executive privilege. what's your view on that and what will likely happen given he is a vital witness here? >> my view is steve bannon has a very weak argument for executive privilege. as you mentioned, he wasn't a member of the executive branch when all of these conversations took place. in fact, he left in 2017. so had the court specifically said that if you're no longer a member of the white house you absolutely cannot claim executive privilege? no, but we know based on the doctrine of executive privilege this has been claimed. he's trying to piggyback off of former president trump's claim of executive privilege. the biden white house in a very

specific letter, i'm paraphrasing here said, look, you don't get to try and subvert the constitution and then wrap yourself in the protections of the constitution. executive privilege is not part of the constitution. it says if you are the president and you want to have free and unfettered conversations with some of your senior council, then we want you to do that particularly if there are national security interests at stake but we're going to balance that against the public's right to know. there was an insurrection, i believe there was an attempted coup and the public has a right to know. >> adam kinsing er isn't ruling out a subpoena for donald trump. >> it's hard to imagine that you could piece together every aspect of this story and not

call former president trump and get him under oath. it's also hard to imagine, frankly, that he would comply with that. we know having seen the first impeachment and second impeachment that when you fight the subpoenas you can win even if you have a losing legal argument. you can imagine they would say, of course we should hear from former president trump. a lot of information we need to know is publicly available but there are still some parts of the story that we deserve to hear. this is our country, our constitution that was at risk, our government under siege. if former president trump drags this out in congress and then the courts, this is a problem if you are the house democrats and you have said i want to wrap this up by early spring. it's the same reason steve bannon could win because he has

a weak legal argument, he'll play out the clock. terry mcauliffe held an event with stacey abrams sunday. she's a heavy hitter using issues to inspire voters. where does that show where mcauliffe is? >> it indicates it is critical and this is neck in neck. you don't have stacey abrams come if you are ahead in the polls by 10 or 15 points. it shows the democrats are trying to put on the map not just in the senate, in congress but also in gubernatorial mansions and slow thing rights. it is important who's the chief

executive and that matters for redistricting and that that matters, the more we can kind of read into that that it means that you need them and you need their help and that's what the polls indicate here. >> jessica levenson, always great to chat with you. appreciate it. >> thank you. police in chicago have been told they can't take time off right now as a standoff over the city's vaccine policy threatens to cut their numbers in half. officers are now required to disclose their vaccine status or risk being placed on unpaid leave. the police up onis fighting the vaccine mandate calling it an overreach. in minnesota a nurse's strike temporarily closed an emergency room at one hospital in plymouth. about 50 nurses went on strike seeking fair pay and benefits

for those on the front lines of the pandemic. the closure will last three days according to a statement. i'm rosemary church. more news after this quick break. stay with us.

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