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good evening. very busy hour ahead including news so many parents have been waiting for. the fda's advisory committee recommending pfizer's covid vaccine for ages 5 to 11. but like nearly everything to do with what was supposed to be the simple way to end a pandemic, it isn't quite as simple as that. we will have more details ahead. also, senator elizabeth warren joins us on her new proposal for funding president biden's so-called build back better legislation as democrats in both chambers face growing pressure, including a key election next week to finally wrap it up. we begin though with breaking news in the fatal shooting in new mexico on the set of "rust." the district attorney telling "the new york times" that criminal charges are possible. speaking by phone with the paper, she said and i quote, we haven't ruled out anything. everything at this point including criminal charges is on the table. she went on to say as we look at what's believed to be the last-known photo of photographer halyna hutchins before she was fatally wounded.

there was an enormous amount of bullets on this set. and we need to find out what kinds they were. our first guest tonight was not there but only because he turned down a job on the film. prop master is a hollywood veteran with more than 55 films and tv productions to his credit. he joins us now. neil, thank you so much for joining us. appreciate it. when did you first have misgivings about this job on the set? >> sort of the misgivings came about when i started speaking to the various powers that be on the production to secure my employment with -- with really numbers and budgeting, staffing questions that needed addressing. >> i want to read an e-mail that -- that you -- you received back from a location manager saying we'd really like one that can push up on the gun fights

and heavy armor days, end quote. we should mention a source close to production tells cnn production was not trying to combine the two roles and it was not a budget issue. i know you e-mailed back declining the job. can you just explain what you took that e-mail to mean and why you thought that might be an issue? >> well, we should think about the climate in which that e-mail came. we were in the process of negotiating over several days. we had sort of been up and down with numbers and staffing numbers and what things would be. and then, after things sort of seemed somewhat settled, um, then there was that sort of, oh, and by the way -- which i call kind of a slip it in, if you will. sort of a slip it in at the last moment type thing. so, there really isn't an opportunity to agree or disagree with that. um, and to say that that person would then occupy those two jobs is -- is a bit flawed. that premise is flawed. >> so, i mean, how would it

normally work? i mean, usually, how many crew members would be needed in your view to assist when there are guns being used like this? >> well, the production did forward me the script. i did significant breakdown on the script and identified where those scenes were. obviously, the character of harlem rust is an outlaw. so it is a recurring theme throughout the film that he is pursued, he is shot at. he also shoots back. there is a lot of detail there. and as -- um -- a professional in the -- in the industry that is -- have been here for a minute, it's evident when you read the script and, furthermore, when you see the storyboards, you understand what the vision of the film is and what they want to achieve. and -- and -- and what it'll take to achieve that. and then, i present those concerns and needs to usually, typically producers, producer staff. and those concerns are sorted. so, sort of an initial thing

was, like, kind of a -- a passed off, we'll get to that. we'll have that conversation. that's negotiable. and you are at the point where you're doing the negotiation. so, kind of to say it is negotiable is a little bit arrogant and flippant. >> have you worked on -- i mean, i don't know if this is a low-budget film. i don't know where it stands in terms of budget. you know, obviously, they were -- they were having crew members drive all the way to albuquerque when much longer drive than santa fe so as i guess to save money on hotel rooms. is -- was this kind of in the realm of what happens on low-budget films? or was this, to you, more concerning than that? i mean, i -- you have experience on low-budget films, i assume? >> it -- it's all in the culture of the film and how the film is being rolled out and implemented. how it's being staffed, et cetera.

so i would say, myself, my experience here was that i was being flown in and hired as a distant hire. and basically, i would have landed in the middle of all of that fray, and been a little bit oblivious to those concerns that people say were sleeping on their -- in their car on the way home from work because they were too tired, et cetera, et cetera. you know, i wasn't courted to come to the project with those terms. my terms were quite well defined. so -- but it would be shocking and upsetting to suddenly be inserted into that situation and -- and literally, see people in misery. you know? it's concerning. >> there is also something you refer to in that e-mail as -- as all in one shot and just in terms of filming, can you explain what that is and if you think that's what they were trying to film in -- in this movie?

>> you know, i -- i hope that i can answer your question because a lot of -- a lot of the questions are multi-answered and multilayered and -- and multi-textured, as you can imagine. but basically, an all in one is typically, you see it in a lot of iconic westerns. it is sort of an iconic shot, if you will. but there'll be the vengeance shot or finally the protagonist rises from the ground and has one shot left and they'll rise up, and they'll use that one bullet to bring down the quote/unquote bad guy. so that's -- that's a scene where hollywood filmmakers want you to be in that seat. they want you to be behind that pistol or weapon. and they want you to feel that vicarious experience that the character is actually going through. and there is a -- there is a need for us to get closer and closer to that to, quote, be as real as you possibly can. and i think that's maybe led us down a little bit of a slippery

slope. >> i think i said it was e-mail. it was not in the e-mail but the -- overall, what -- what finally made you decide not to -- to move forward on this? >> well, i would say probably the fifth and final thing they did was the slip-it-in e-mail. where they suggested -- and they actually referred to the consortium of producers as a group, we feel it would be best that you could -- you could compress those two positions. and it's just an awful lot of landscape for even a seasoned professional to cover. if you are loading a gun, you're right up next to the camera. if you're an assistant key prop master, then you are in the background loading the wagons, checking the bridles, making sure the trunk is being loaded and offloaded and repeated over and over again. there are so many things that go on in between the foreground and

the background and to have to cover that amount of territory and do it well is challenging for even a seasoned professional. >> yeah. neil, i really appreciate your expertise and -- and you speaking with us tonight. thank you. >> been my pleasure. thank you. given what the santa fe county district attorney told "the new york times" about criminal charges, i want to turn next to cnn's chief legal analyst jeffrey toobin. so, jeff, obviously there is a lot that we do not know at this point. just what could be the scale and the scope of legal liability in -- in this? >> well, let's start with the -- the easy part which is civil liability. this whole misadventure was the definition of negligence, as far as i can tell. and ms. hutchins' family is certain to file lawsuits against everyone responsible for this production. it's unclear who will have to pay that money. that depends on the structure of the insurance and further factual development. but certainly, there will be a multimillion-dollar award of

damages to -- to her family. um, once you start to get into the criminal area, that's where i think it's very important to let the facts -- let -- let's see where the facts go because at this point i think it's very hard to speculate about who might be liable. >> in terms -- "the new york times" is quoting the santa fe district attorney tonight as saying everything at this point, including criminal charges, is on the table. if -- i mean, what -- what -- what -- what do you look at to figure out liability? i mean, if somebody hands someone else a gun who is an actor and tells them it's okay, whose fault is it? >> well, that -- that really could be, you know, manslaughter on the part of -- if person a -- and i don't know who person a is and i don't know if there is a person a -- but if person a

hands a gun he or she knows contains an actual bullet to an actor, alec baldwin, and alec baldwin shoots someone, i could definitely see that person a had some criminal liability in terms of even something as -- as -- as significant as manslaughter. but, you know, as your previous guest discussed, you know, even on a low-budget film, it's complicated how props move around, who's responsible. and the district attorney is going to have to do a very thorough investigation of how this weapon got -- got into a deadly situation. at this point, we don't even know, as far as i am aware, that there was an actual bullet in the chamber. >> yeah, we don't. >> it may be that a -- a blank could have caused a lot of damage. so, all those facts really have to be developed before you can decide on criminal liability.

but criminal liability, as the da said, is certainly -- is certainly possible. >> the district attorney also quoted by "the new york times" as saying that the investigation would probably take weeks, if not months before getting to the point of charging anyone. how complicated just a legal question does this become if charges are brought and -- and -- and who they're brought against? >> it's -- it's a very complicated situation. and -- and a lot of it has to do -- will have to do with state of mind which is always difficult for prosecutors to show. what did these various people know about the status of this gun at this point -- and again, i just want to say at this point, alec baldwin looks like, frankly, the least likely person to have any sort of criminal liability because it's very hard for me to imagine that he could be expected to know that this was a gun that could have inflicted real harm. unless evidence comes to show that he had reason to know that, i think he would be criminally

in -- in -- in the clear. you know, as for all the other people -- i mean, the first question you want to know as -- as -- as a prosecutor and as an investigator is who had custody of this gun? who had access to ammunition? was there any actual live ammunition on -- on the premises? and who controlled it? and -- and who put it into this gun if, in fact, that's what -- that's what happened? certainly, following the evidence related to the weapon itself will be central to what the investigators have to do. >> jeff toobin, appreciate it. thank you. coming up next, we have more breaking news. senator elizabeth warren joins us to talk about new movement and the push to pass biden's social and economic agenda and her new proposal for funding it which got a boost from the white house. later, what you need to know about today's long-awaited vote on vaccinating kids as young as 5 against covid. ygienic clean f.

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president biden's signature social and environmental legislation wrapped up. two senate holdouts, joe manchin and kyrsten sinema are now supporting a way of paying for it. they met tonight with the president who is also getting behind the proposal unveiled late today. a minimum tax on the country's most profitable corporations. got a live report from the white house, momentarily. but first, senator elizabeth warren joins us now. senator warren, thanks so much for being with us. can you just talk about what your proposal is and that's getting the support now? >> sure. the proposal is to fix the amazon problem. remember how amazon declared $10 billion in profits, publicly told its shareholders that and then turned around and told the irs, but not you. paid zero in taxes. so, what this proposal is about is to say whenever you are making more than a billion dollars in profits that you report publicly, you are going to have to pay a minimum tax of

15%. it hits about 200 of the biggest companies and most profitable companies in the country. and it will raise a few-hundred billion dollars that we can spend on childcare and fighting the climate crisis. >> and senators sinema and manchin came out in support of the corporate minimum tax today. do you think you can win over the rest of your colleagues? >> i think we've got a very good chance on that. i talked about it today with all of my colleagues. but i have been doing this for a long time now, you know, i talked about this when i ran for president. talked about it when we came back. talked about it when we first started talking about build back better. moved over to the finance committee. so, i could get in there and argue for it. and it's taken a while. and some folks have had to work through it. but i feel pretty good. democrats understand that what the american people have known

for a long time and, that is, that the tax system is rigged. and letting these giant profitable companies get away with paying nothing has to come to an end. and that's what this minimum-corporate profits tax is about. >> and how many corporations make a billion dollars? >> so, it's roughly around 200 that would be in this. that are making more than a billion dollars. and not paying up there at the marginal rate. and, you know, this is -- i just want to draw a distinction here. we have talked a lot about raising the rate. but you have to understand, a company like amazon, they don't care whether or not the rate is 23% or 33% or 53%. because they're paying nothing. so, instead of putting our focus over there where we weren't getting a whole bunch of people together on it, we put the focus on let's make sure that those

who are not paying at all really have to step up and do their part. they've been free-riding off the rest of us for long enough. >> so are there -- there's -- what about the billionaire tax that had been discussed? there was people saying about people who earn more than $5 million a year, 3% tax on that. is -- are those still on the table? >> so, there's a second and a kind of complementary piece. the one you and i just talked about is, in effect, the billionaire corporations that are paying nothing. the other one is about the billionaire people who are paying nothing. this would hit roughly around 700 -- little over 700 people. here, it's the jeff bezos problem. so, jeff bezos says to the irs that he only makes $83,000 a year in taxable income. that's all he makes on his

salary, his w2. and so, that is a all he pays taxes on. while he sits on this enormous fortune. and year by year, he grows that fortune and pays nothing in taxes on it. because we have this distortion in our tax system that says if you work hard, you got to pay every year if you get a w2. but if you sit on a bunch of wealth and it grows, you don't have to pay until you sell it or maybe even until you die. maybe never. what this says is, nope, everybody who is creating wealth pays every year. it's just basic fairness. and here again, only applies to billionaires and those billionaires will produce hundreds of billions of dollars in tax revenue. there's childcare, there's home and community-based care. there's a big down payment in the fight against the climate crisis. >> and would there be -- are there -- are you looking at more

taxes on other high earners? >> well, if it were up to me, yes, i would raise the marginal rate on income taxes for the big corporations and for individuals. but we got to get something that all 50 democrats can get onboard for. and this one is one where everybody sees the fundamental unfairness. it basically means the united states senate is finally catching up to the rest of america. you know, the overwhelming majority of americans want to see us put a fair tax on the billionaires. they've done great for a long time and during the pandemic, they made more and more money while families were struggling. so, this says, guys, it's time for you to get taxed when you increase your wealth, the same way that people who are out there digging ditches or

teaching school or -- or putting out fires, the same way they get taxed every year. >> and just when it comes to the timing of the votes, house speaker pelosi said earlier today that framework agreement on the larger economic bill is enough to hold a vote on infrastructure. but senator bernie sanders said that there should not be a vote in the house on the infrastructure package until there is a agreement in the senate on the larger economic package. where do you stand? >> look. we have always said that this is basically one big package. and we recognize there were going to be multiple votes in this. so that the roads and bridges made it in one set of votes. but now, it's time to do childcare and climate. and it's important that we have every confidence all the pieces are moving together. that was the deal at the beginning. that was the deal in the middle. and that's still the deal, today. >> do you have a sense of when this will happen?

>> i'm feeling optimistic. i think we've made really good progress. you know, it helps a lot when you know you're going to pay for it and when the pay-for that we've got here is something people really get behind and i think we are getting closer on all the rest of the pieces so i feel a lot of momentum. a lot of energy right now among the democrats. >> you think by the end of the week? >> you know, i hope so. i have to tell you, i feel a lot of hope that we're really going to get good things done for the american people. i'm -- i'm optimistic about that. >> senator elizabeth warren, appreciate your time. thank. >> thank you. coming up next. the white house and cnn's phil mattingly with a fair bit of news tonight. phil, first of all, you just heard what the senator said, mentioned earlier senators manchin and sinema were at the white house earlier this evening. what's the latest? >> i think you have to view this when you talk to white house officials that if they can move forward, if there is a pathway to move forward on both pieces. the vote on the $1.2 trillion infrastructure proposal or the economic and climate package you were just speaking with senator warren about, there is only two senators they need signoff from at this moment and that's

senators sinema and manchin. anderson, you know well the president has spent a lot of time with these two senators over the course of the last several weeks. but based on how things have progressed over the course of the last several days, hours of private meetings between white house officials and both senators. both senators meeting for hours with their colleagues on various pieces. the outstanding issues have to be reconciled now if they want any hope of having the agreement that unlocks that infrastructure bill by the end of the week. the end of the week, obviously, when the president is heading to that u.n. climate conference where he's made clear he wants the climate provisions agreed to. he wants these proposals in hand. he needs the signoff from these two senators that were at the white house tonight. a very clear effort from the white house to try and lock that in or at least get it closer to the finish line as they move forward on that timeline, anderson. >> but is it your understanding -- i mean, that kyrsten sinema, senator sinema is, in fact, um, onboard with this -- the corporate tax and -- and the billionaire's tax?

>> the corporate tax, absolutely. she put out a statement when senator warren and the other senators released that proposal today. said she was explicitly behind it. the white house put out a statement saying they were explicitly behind it, as well. the billionaire's tax, we have heard from sources that she is open to it. amenable to it, to some degree but there is just a lot of technical work that needs to be done on that. and there are also a lot of democrats that are concerned about whether it can be implemented, how it would be enforced, all of that needs to be figured out in a compressed timetable. corporate minimum tax without any question at all, there was significant progress on that front anderson. coming up, a vote to recommend the pfizer covid vaccine for children as young as 5. we will tell you what comes next. critically, how soon? those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! ( sighs wearily ) here, i'll take that! ( excited yell ) woo-hoo! ensure max protein. with thirty grams of protein, one-gram of sugar, and nutrients to support immune health! ( abbot sonic )

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relax people, my wireless is crushing it. that's because you all have xfinity mobile with your internet. it's wireless so good, it keeps one upping itself. there is more breaking news tonight. an advisory committee of the u.s. food and drug administration has voted to recommend pfizer's covid vaccine for children ages 5 to 11 under emergency use. the panel supports the dosage that's one-third of what is given to those over the age of 12 in two shots, three weeks apart. pfizer says its vaccine for children, ages 5 to 11 is 90% effective against symptomatic covid. members of the fda committee agreed the benefits appear to outweigh the risk but they had some concerns including whether states would now mandate the vaccine for children to go to school after a few more steps

about 28 million children as young as 5 could get the vaccine as early as next week. joining us now, dr. peter hotez, author of preventing the next pandemic, vaccine diplomacy in a time of anti-science. and cnn medical analyst, dr. leana wen, former baltimore health commissioner and author of lifelines, a doctor's journey if the fight for public health. in part, because the cdc presented evidence that many more children have covid-19 antibodies than previously thought. i am curious, as to what you think if a child between 5 and 11 years old has covid antibodies do you think they need both doses of pfizer's vaccine? >> well first of all, anderson, it's very tough to know for certain if a child has previous covid infection or not. and -- and simply, measuring antibodies is -- is variable and you don't know how durable that protection is. but here's -- here's the -- here's -- here's what's most important to remember. we saw the devastation among

pediatric populations this summer because of the delta variant. we saw unprecedented numbers of children's hospital admissions and for the first time since i can remember, pediatric intensive care units overwhelmed. so, we saw this fivefold increase over later in the summer. um, among pediatric hospitalizations here in the south. 8,300 hospitalizations, altogether, for children. about half. young children 5 to 11 half with that multisystem inflammatory syndrome of -- of -- of childhood which is very severe. 100 deaths between the ages of 5 to 11 and about 14% of the -- of the kids having long-covid symptoms lasting more than 15 months. bottom line, we learned this summer that covid-19's a very bad actor in the children 5 to 11 and that's why we need it. >> dr. wen, i mentioned another point of discussion today is mandates and whether emergency use authorization for pfizer's kid vaccine is going to lead to

more mandates. do you think that should happen? or should parents with kids between 5 and 11 be able to choose to get their child vaccinated or not? >> i think it's way too early for us to be talking about mandates in this age group. so far, we have an important study but the study by pfizer is just over 2,000 kids. i think the right next step is to have the parents who really want to get their kids vaccinated to allow them to do that. there are lots of parents who are living in areas that are not requiring masks in schools. where their -- their kids are being exposed to a lot of risk factors and their kids have underlying medical conditions including asthma and obesity that predispose them to severe outcomes from covid-19 if they were to have it. so i think those parents that are eager to get their kids vaccinated, get vaccinated. let's collect some more information and then if we have more information include about what it is that vaccines can replace. for example, can vaccines replace a need for masks in schools? can vaccines help to prevent outbreaks and then stop the need for quarantining and having kids not be in school? then maybe then, we can have a conversation about mandates but we are a long way off from that.

>> dr. hotez, i mean, the advisers also discussed myocarditis, which is inflammation of the heart muscle and another -- a rare side effect of the pfizer and moderna vaccine. as a pediatrician, how concerned are you about myocarditis as a vaccine side effect in 5 to 11? >> well, it's something we are going to have to watch. so, in the -- what the concern was in the 12 to 17-year-olds, we did see a bump in rates but it is still an extremely rare event between 4 and 10 per 100,000. so, it's -- it's still extremely uncommon. >> four and ten teenagers per 100,000 got an inflammation? >> that -- that's right. so, it's an extremely rare event. i mean, we are talking about one in 10,000, on average. and so, that's -- that's quite uncommon. and almost all of those did quite well and -- and had spontaneous resolution.

sometimes, requiring hospitalization. so, but the -- but the key point to remember, anderson, is that the rate of myocarditis and other cardiac sequelae from the virus, is possibly as high as 450 per -- per million. so, not only that, we are also talking about other cardiovascular consequences. thrombotic events, strokes. so, all of that has to be kept in mind, as well. so, myocarditis is still an extremely rare event. it is something that we are going to have to watch, and as dr. wen points out, this study that -- that the bridging study that move forward on the authorization had only about 2,000 kids. so, we are going to collect a lot more information hopefully in the coming months. >> dr. wen, according to the american academy of pediatrics, almost 118,000 children tested positive for covid last week. as much as the country moves into colder months, cold or flu season, how big of a difference will getting younger -- the younger population vaccinated,

how much difference will that actually make? >> i think it will make a difference in terms of where covid-19 goes because we could have 28 million more americans who are now eligible to be vaccinated. but i think it will make the biggest difference when it comes to the lives of parents and their children. kids have missed out on so much. they've been pulled out of sports. they missed out on extracurricular activities. maybe, they stopped having sleepovers and going to indoor birthday parties. they can now resume many of these things once they are vaccinated. also, we are coming into holiday season and if we are able to get the vaccine authorized by the fda, recommended by the cdc by next week, then kids could be fully vaccinated by the time that christmas and new year's, winter holidays come around. i think that will make a lot of difference. and for parents, too. parents have been living with so much caution because of their kids, worried about travel, worried about occupational exposure. it will allow parents and their children to return to a large portion of their pre-pandemic normal. >> dr. hotez, i want to change topics quickly. ask you about comments made by former trump coronavirus coordinator, dr. deborah birx to a congressional subcommittee when interviewed earlier this month about the former

administration's handling of the virus, she said the 2020 campaign, quote, took people's time away from and distracted them away from the pandemic. dr. birx also said she believes more than 130,000 american lives could have been saved if more mitigation measures had been put in effect. i mean, which is pretty stunning statement. 130,000 needless deaths. i am wondering what your reaction was to that? >> well, you know, when i first heard it, my first thought was, you know, what the president -- what president trump did in the white house, the west wing, and the oval office did was far more than be distracted because of the campaign. they actively undermined covid-19 efforts. they launched a horrific disinformation campaign in the spring and summer of 2020. claiming covid was a hoax. nothing more than the flu. spectacularizing the benefits of hydroxychloroquine. saying hospital admissions were just catchup and elective surgeries and that was incredibly damaging and caused a lot of loss of life, discrediting masks. and then, in parallel, what they did was they ultimately refused to launch a national program to control covid-19. what they did, instead, was

leave it to the states and they never put the federal government out in front and the consequences of that were the states didn't know how to do this. and -- and -- and so, the -- the loss of life was catastrophic and needless. >> dr. peter hotez, dr. leana wen, thank you. appreciate it. up next, what internal facebook papers reveal about covid misinformation on the social media site and what it seems facebook officials were saying publicly was not the reality of what was happening behind the scenes. kara swisher joins us ahead.

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there is more to tell you about covid tonight. new details from the so-called facebook papers. whistle-blower frances haugen gave federal authorities. they reveal the company was seemingly having a tougher time managing vaccine misinformation than it was letting on. earlier this year, as you know, facebook was publicly touting its resources, however, internal documents from march show employees raise concerns about vaccine hesitancy in user comments. one report mentioned quote our ability to detect vaccine

hesitancy comment is bad in english and basically nonexistent elsewhere. in a moment, i will talk it over with tech journalist, kara swisher, author of "new york times" op-ed critical of facebook ceo mark zuckerberg she writes, zuckerberg will yield power at facebook all he wants. the era of his being the adored dear leader and culture touchstones at the company is effectively over. kara swisher joins now. you think it's time actually for mark zuckerberg to step down as ceo. do you think that's actually likely or possible? >> i don't think he is going to step down. i think they are going to create a new corporate entity, much like google did last year -- a couple years ago, i'm sorry, 2015 when they created alphabet. and then, larry page kind of just disappeared above -- above the entity. >> like on an island somewhere last i heard. >> yeah, something like that but with many billions of dollars. and so -- and so, they -- so they are going to create this entity. and it's a question about what it's going be called and one of the rumors was meta. and then, someone else will be ceo of facebook and that -- that

moves him out of the -- out of the line of fire, essentially. and takes the pressure off of him. and he still controls the company because he has pretty much complete control of the company including the board. so it's not like he is going anywhere. >> so the -- the meta thing that the -- meta kind ever thing like alphabet did. that is the re-branding that -- that there have been reports about you think? >> yeah. i think it's -- according to many sources i talked to this week, maybe -- maybe thursday -- but they are thinking about this because it creates -- it creates a layer between facebook and the other entities. they do have other companies. oculus. some of their financial services but everything gets overshadowed by sort of the disaster at facebook and all these things that have come out in these documents of which it's not just misinformation, it is everything. >> so i mean, why is it so difficult for zuckerberg and facebook leadership to admit fault or be accountable or, you know, do they just think that they have completely done nothing wrong and that this is

all -- i mean, their statements, their pushback is basically they are saying they have done nothing wrong and this is all just kind of a coordinated attack on them. >> well, they did. this is unusual that a platform known for conspiracy theories is claiming conspiracy theory by a bunch of journalists who were just given documents and are looking over them. i think the issue is they have said sorry, if you remember that's what they do all the time. it's kind of gotten to be a joke among tech journalists. this time, they are using a different strategy which is it's conspiracy or we're not responsible for hate in the world. which nobody said they were. they keep sort of putting up these false ideas. what it is is they have managed this massive platform in many places, not everywhere, pretty badly. like in other countries. some of these documents, that's what's really disturbing is that they put countries in tiers and -- and, you know, i just did a really interesting interview on my podcast called "sway" and she was warning me about this in 2015, '16 and also warning facebook about the data it was showing the government and bots and other things misusing information about her to create

this -- this narrative around her that was untrue. and of course, you know, she's been under siege. she, of course, just won the nobel peace prize for her work. >> i know her, she's extraordinary, what she's done. >> extraordinary. and so, i think the issue is this thing has gotten so big and all over the place. and they can't run it well in parts around elections or vaccines or whatever it is because they have created this system where they don't have full-monitoring control of everything that's going on there. >> is it -- is that something they could have? because i mean, you know, every time the few times i've -- i have sort of had interviews with, you know, lawyers from facebook or -- or whomever, they -- it seems to me, they don't want to start getting into that business because they know once they start even just a little bit, they actually have to try to, you know, be responsible and -- and -- and have standards and do a good

job. and they'd rather just not do it and just say well we're just a platform. >> but they're not just a platform. they are protected by section 230 of the communications decency act. they have broad immunity. so they could do something about it. i think the issue is that they -- their -- they try to hide behind these first amendment arguments, which by the way, are very important to them too because they should have be able to have what they want on a platform but you can't be an editor without editorial responsibility and they do editing all the time. they do have rules. they just don't enforce them. i think one of the things that is interesting is former-president trump has shown just how bad you can behave on a platform and not get kicked off. he's been a very good example and sort of has led the way to understanding that these -- these sites are not run as well as they need to be. and they -- they don't have to do it. but obviously, the government can move in and do things not about the information itself but how they run the platform and -- and the responsibility that they have at large when they create tools that create problems. just the way cigarettes did or, you know, an oil spill or -- or

chemical spills or things like that. >> yeah. kara swisher, it's so great to have you on the program. thank you. i am a huge fan. >> thanks a lot. >> you can hear more from cara on "the new york times" podcast sway. we should also note we invited someone from facebook to join the program tonight. they declined. also, kara does a podcast with scott galloway who we have on the show a lot. breaking news ahead. president biden stumping for terry mcauliffe who is in a tight race to win back his job as governor of virginia. will it be enough? we'll have more on that ahead. feel stuck with student loan debt? move to sofi-and feel what it's like to get your money right. ♪ move your student loan debt to sofi—you could save with low rates and no fees. earn a $500 bonus when you refi-and get your money right. is struggling to manage your type 2 diabetes knocking you out of your zone?

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common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. if you're living with hiv . . . . . . keep loving who you are. and ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you. breaking news moments ago president biden took the stage at a campaign rally in arlington, virginia, for democrat terry mcauliffe, who's in a tight race for governor with republican glenn youngkin. cnn's jeff zeleny is there with more on the president's speech and why the race is so important to democrats. jeff, what did the president say? >> reporter: anderson, president biden seemed to take great delight here tonight in trying to tie republican glenn youngkin to donald trump. again and again he upbraided mr.

youngkin, who's a businessman who's running for his first time in public office. but he's tried to distance himself from donald trump. president biden wasn't having that tonight, trying to tie them directly together. >> terry is running against an acolyte of donald trump. terry's opponent doesn't like to talk about how very much now, but to win the republican nomination he embraced donald trump. he started his campaign by saying that the number one issue in the race was his call -- he called for election integrity. this guy started he said he's calling for election integrity. now, why did he do that? because he wanted to hear donald trump? it was the price he'd have to pay for the nomination. and he paid it. >> reporter: so that is a flavor

of what president biden was saying here tonight, one week before virginia voters choose their next governor. but president biden's popularity is also on the line. he came here empty-handed, still with no economic agenda. and that is complicating this race for democrats. for weeks terry mcauliffe has been sounding the alarm about washington gridlock. >> i'm tired of people up in congress sitting around doing chitty chat. let's pass these bills. >> reporter: bringing in the president and other big name democrats to help boost enthusiasm in the virginia governor's race. >> we ain't get time to be tired! >> reporter: yet republican glenn youngkin is barely talking about president biden in the final days of the campaign. >> friends, america needs us right now. >> reporter: instead he's hoping to capitalize on anger from parents who are fed up with government at all levels. from mask and vaccine mandates to school curriculum. >> it's not republicans against democrats anymore. this is virginians standing up for our rights and particularly for the rights of our kids.

>> reporter: he's trying to tap into the rising power of the parents movement, releasing a new ad featuring a conservative activist who so the to block the pulitzer prize-winning book "beloved" from being taught in virginia classrooms. >> he understands, parents matter. join me in voting for glenn youngkin. >> reporter: mcauliffe blasted the ad as a racist dog whistle and an attempt to silence black authors. across virginia early voting has been under way for more than a month with more than 734,000 people already casting their ballots. the contest is a bellwether for both parties. but above all the first big political test for biden. he soared to a ten-point victory in virginia last year, but now democrats are on edge at the prospect of republicans sparking a resurgence here. the president's weakened standing presents a clear challenge for mcauliffe, a point he made explicitly during a virtual meeting with supporters earlier this month. he thought was private. >> we are facing a lot of headwinds from washington, as you he know. the president is unpopular today, unfortunately, here in

virginia. so we have got to plow through. >> reporter: the off-year governor's races in virginia and new jersey offer an early glimpse at the climate heading into next year's midterm races. and if the president's party is facing political headwinds. so in the final week of this race one question hanging over it is is the former president donald trump going to come campaign for glenn youngkin? youngkin does not want him to, but president biden tonight almost was trying to goad him into coming to virginia. we'll keep our eye on that. but next week at this time, anderson, we'll be counting the votes here in virginia. >> jeff, thanks. more news ahead. we'll be right back. e and bad b. never settle for 25%. always go for 100. bring out the bold™ ♪ your new pharmacy is here. to help you compare prices, and save on your medication. amazon prime members get select meds as low as $1 a month. who knew it could be this easy? your new pharmacy is amazon pharmacy.

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