tv Cuomo Prime Time CNN November 23, 2021 10:00pm-11:00pm PST
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i know it's for the entire team when i say this -- this thanksgiving we're thankful for you. thank you for the opportunity of doing the job, thank you for the good, the bad, the ugly. all of it helps us get to better place. enjoy the family and enjoy everything you can. be thankful. tonight you get the upgrade. "don lemon tonight" with the upgrade laura coates right now. >> so nice to see you. i hope you have a happy thanksgiving. i hope you have the elastic pants out. probably not a problem for you. >> probably because all of my suits are suited with the right belt. i'm a step ahead. >> i see. happy thanksgiving. >> have a great thanksgiving. appreciate you. i'm thankful for you, your mind, your heart, the way you bring them together to help people understand situations and the
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impact of the law on people's lives. >> thank you. from the cheap seats, same back at you. [ laughter ] >> there is your boy. making his arguments. we'll see how it goes with the jury. i can't wait to see what you say about it. i'll be watching. >> thank you, chris. appreciate you. take care. this is "don lemon tonight." i'm laura coates in for don lemon. another big night of headlines. the jury in the trial of three white men accused of murder in the killing of ahmaud arbery wrapping now the first day of deliberations and due back in court at 8:30 tomorrow morning. meanwhile in charlottesville it attorneys out there is a price for spreading hate in america and that price is $26 million. a jury awarded more than $26 million in damages after finding the white nationalists who organized and participated in a violent 2017 rally liable on a state conspiracy claim and other claims. the jury said it could not reach
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a verdict on two federal conspiracy claims however. that as for the second day in a row, the committee investigating the riot at the capitol on january 6th issued a new batch of subpoenas that, this time focussing on right wing extremist groups involved in the attack including the oath keepers and proud boys. i want to go to the trial in the three men accused in the murder of ahmaud arbery. martin salve has that now. >> reporter: tonight, the men accused of killing a black man running in a neighborhood. in the controversial case is in the hands of one black and 11 white jurors. >> with that, ladies and gentlemen, i ask you retire to the jury room. >> reporter: the prosecution getting the final say retelling how an armed father and son gregory and travis mcmichael aided by a neighbor pursued 25-year-old ahmaud arbery
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eventually cornering and killing him. the final moments caught on video. >> you can't force someone to defend themselves against you so you get to claim self-defense. this isn't the wild west. >> reporter: defense lawyers say the men were attempting a citizen's arrest after they say arbery was seen several times trespassing. it turned deadly as arbery went after mcmichael and mcmichael says she shot in self-defense. the prosecution said the men never told police they were attempting a citizen's arrest. >> they never said citizens arrest. never said we saw him commit a crime so ladies and gentlemen, where did this come from because it didn't come from the defendants on february 23rd, 2020. >> reporter: the state said self-defense isn't an option because the father and son initiated the chase. saying mcmichael never feared an unarmed arbery. >> there is no fear here. there is only anger. do you really believe he had no other choice but to use his
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shotgun? >> reporter: the state arguing if any other of the defendants didn't take part in the crimes, ahmaud arbery could be alive and his race was a motivating factor. >> what is your emergency? there is a black man running down the street. >> reporter: both arbery's family and defense attorney has faith in the jury. >> we're confident that this jury will seriously consider all the evidence and come back with a verdict that is reflective of what actually happened, which is the brutal and unjustified murder of ahmaud arbery. >> the evidence of travis' innocence we'll see what the jury feels is justice and we will accept the verdict whatever it is. >> reporter: defense attorney kevin goff who made controversial comments throughout the trial criticizing the presence of black pastors seemed to soften his tone expressing concern for the arbery family. >> there is no pressure on the lawyers, win or lose we go home.
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the pressure is on the clients and i feel for the arbery family. this is an ordeal for them, you know, some of this testimony and evidence presented about their son is graphic. >> reporter: jury deliberation will begin again at 8:30 in the morning and of course, it goes without saying tomorrow is the day before a major holiday. there are many who believe that will have an impact on the jury after all they have been working on this case, if you include jury selection going back to october 18th. they may want to be done with their duty so they can enjoy the entire holiday weekend. we will have to wait and see. laura? >> we will. thank you, martin. joining me now is cnn legal analyst elliott williams. elliott, you know, it's been an ordeal to say the least but the
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jury is methodical in the prosecution's case. i want to march through the charges with you if we can. i think one of the questions people have, the distinction between malice murder and felony murder, both have been charged. what's the distinction for people to understand? >> right. for neither of them do you have to prove the person intended to kill. look, malice murder the language is that they killed with an an abandoned or ma malignant heart. felony murder and jurors may be confused about this, when in the commission of a felony a death occurs and what they did here was charge four separate felonies and we can walk through what they were. the individual can be convicted of felony murder. now, those four underlying felonies were aggravated assault with the use of a shotgun, aggravated assault with the use of a truck essentially treating
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the truck as a weapon, false imprisonment and attempted false imprisonment. it fits together under this felony murder banner. in all it's nine charges total. >> on that issue of false imprisonment and a bank robber and a death occurs in the course of committing that felony, that seems obvious to people. this one might seem different in terms of false imprisonment because people have this idea in your mind you have to be in a room confined, tied down or bound in someway but false imprisonment is more expansive in georgia, right? >> it literally detains or arrest as person. pinning them into a corner with a truck or impeding their movement. the fact is this happens on a public street but in effect, they stop him from moving which is a form of detention. people think of imprisonment as hand cuffs in the trunk of a car but it doesn't have to be that. the law in georgia is quite clear on this. >> we heard from at least one of
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the defendants' attorneys on cuomo's show. people might want clarification how can it be all three individuals are charged in these crimes if one has already acknowledged and admitted and took the stand, travis mcmichael he was the one to actually fire the weapon. when you think about each of the different defendants is there an opportunity or chance the jurors might hand down different verdicts for each one? >> they certainly can. you used the word culpability. there is countless liability where you're liable for the offenses of another person who commits a crime if you're working in concert. you have one individual who is the trigger man travis mcmichael, his dad is driving the pickup truck but then rodney brian is behind them.
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what the prosecution is charged is they all work together sort of as this team but certainly jurors could look at roddie bryan's conduct a little bit differently than the other two because again, he was the one with the cell phone camera but not welding a firearm. >> interesting because in the closing you had the prosecution essentially saying using the same statements that rodney brian's attorneys had been but for this video we'd never know what happened but for this video you wouldn't have the
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prosecution. they turned it on their head in terms of the closing argument to say well, we have the video not because you were somehow heroic. you weren't just sort of a person on the side just watching this. you were an active participant and under the georgia law, you have this party of a crime that's pretty expansive here. elliott, even if this trial concludes with an acquittal or conviction, we are waiting to know, they still have to face another trial and that's federal hate crime charges. that's been a really major issue for them, right? >> right. exactly. because a lot of the issues around race did not come up in the trial. there is an allegation travis mcmichael used the "n" word standing over ahmaud arbery's body. they didn't bring that up. i think that was a deliberate choice by the prosecution. that will come up in the federal civil rights trial and information that the georgia investigators knew about travis mcmichael's internet history and social media postings and so on. all those can come into a federal civil rights trial. they tried to keep it focused on just the homicides, just the false imprisonment and assault to make this about the killing in effect. >> what do you think? tomorrow will be a verdict? the day before thanksgiving there is a fire lit under jurors when the weekends come, now you're talking about a major holiday. >> i get that and sensitive to that. it would be a shame if people rush -- if jurors rush through their obligation to come to a verdict because they want to get home to their families.
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that's very important and we should be thankful to all jurors for the sacrifice they make but this is number one the case of rights for a victim and the defendant's liberty is at stake and it's a shame if jurors run out of there to get to turkey and cranberry sauce. jurors as they approach the weekend tend to get their act together but who knows? >> i'm not going to take offense. i like canned cranberry sauce but maybe not ocean spray kind of man. that's fine, elliott williams. >> as you and i have discussed, i hate turkey, laura and i'm not cooking it. >> take a stand. that's fine, elliott. >> i'm digging in on this one. i do not like turkey and don't cook it for thanksgiving. >> if that's what you need to survive, that's fine. want to turn to people that maybe do enjoy the festive occasions, charles f. coleman junior a civil rights attorney and mark o'mara.
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i'm glad you're both here. thank you for being here to help us understand better what is at stake here. to pick up where elliott left off, this idea of race being really the big elephant in the room and not just a silent one here, it wasn't brought out the same way it was talked about in the court of public opinion. mark, we've heard really jaw dropping things in this trial from the defense. they spoke to the defense attorneys who still, still see nothing wrong with his push to keep black pastors out of the courtroom. listen to this. >> i'm here representing roddie bryan and i'm going to defend my client to the best of my ability and i don't care whether the people in the cheap seats like it or not. >> all right. your reaction, mark, from the cheap seats.
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>> i'm so astounded and troubled and worried by all of the presentation particularly from this one attorney from the shocking comment to the jackson comment to reverend jackson to black pastors generally and he was the one also who said that this trial, the daring to put these three men on trial is like a 2021 lynching a term that should never be used in a courtroom anymore unless you're acknowledging what happened 50 years ago and doubles down on that. i find this disturbing and a closing argument we're speaking about and the comment made by the female attorney. i'd like to see these are dog whistles but sound like bull horns directly to the 11 white jurors. >> you know, we have that actual comment. i want to play that, mark, to bring that at the forefront again as much as i hate having heard it the first time, it's
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important for people to understand what happened. i want to play it. >> turning ahmaud arbery into a victim after the choices that he made does not reflect the reality of what brought ahmaud arbery to the neighborhood in his khaki shorts with no socks to cover his long, dirty toenails. >> charles, that makes my stomach turn every time i hear it. it's obvious they're not trying to play to the court of public opinion, right? they're trying to play for who they think might be on the jury and who they think that will resonate with and if it does, we've got a bigger issue in our society but with only one black juror out of 12, are you worried that that sort of appeal to this latent bigotry could be successful? >> laura, it should turn your stomach and turn the stomach of everyone that watched it. you're absolutely correct.
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i think at this point these defense attorneys have decided that they are going to try and appeal to the lowest common factor that may be somewhere in someone on that jury. we're all attorneys and we know that all you need as a defense attorney is just one to get a hung jury. and at this point, it seems as though they are trying to play to the lowest sensibilities to try to get someone on that jury who will hold out for a hung jury and not convict their clients. it's disgusting to see racism used as a legal strategy and i hate that that's where we are but no denying, we're all attorneys here. we know that at the end of the day, you have to understand who your audience is. so something about those defense attorneys have made them feel comfortable using that sort of not coded, not thinly veiled, very blatant racist language and kept the prosecutor quiet on using that.
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>> you think the prosecutor is not saying and mentioning race because there is an attempt to have the dog whistle or playing the race card is something about their own thoughts on race? >> the only reason i think of and i've been waiting for it and watching the summations and watch the rebuttal today and even today, the prosecutor laid out themes of white entitlement, which he talked about. they try to stop mr. arbery and he didn't stop and how dare he not answer their questions, all of these themes had under pinnings of white entitlement and white privilege within them but she didn't call it for what it was and throughout the trial, they only mentioned it once or twice. the only reason i can think that might be the case because they feel mentioning race from them is not going to be a plus for their prosecution for them getting a conviction. >> mark, you have a reaction to that? >> yeah, my point was exactly what i said at the end. unfortunately, this prosecutor also noticed the jury she has and this is a brunswick jury. they did not want to take this
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case anywhere else in the state but the backyard and she knows as well as the defense team to know different reasons but they know who they're playing to, as well. it's hardly difficult to try to figure out how do you play to a jury who you believe may have some subtle racial biases against the victim in this case in favor of the defendants and as a prosecutor, if you actually rise that up, you may turn those subtle racist juror potentials against your prosecution. so i think it's very difficult ground for the state to focus on. i thought she did a good job focussing on the facts and law and don't get caught up in the craziness. i loved her analogies and common sense but i'm sure she had a difficult time prosecuting this case with this jury. >> we'll soon see. hopefully with this jury who will render a verdict. i think of one potential reason not to bring up race and it could be obviously racial animosity is not an element
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she's trying to prove and the federal hate crimes they will be tried for next will be part of it. i wonder if there is some sort of conversation about what to bring up with the federal prosecutors in the ladder case but we'll wait and see what happens. gentlemen, thank you. we're all waiting on baited breath. thank you. appreciate it. >> thank you. right wing extremists in the sights of the january 6th committee with a bach of subpoenas that targeting the oath keepers and the proud boys. will they tell what they know about the days leading up to the violence?
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the person that i've always been has shown up to the party again. for the second time in two days the january 6th committee issuing a new round of subpoenas that. this time targeting right wing extremist groups including the oath keepers and the proud boys and the looters of each group. there is an additional subpoena going to the head of a lesser known militia group called the first amendment. let discuss with ron brownstein and harry litman a former deputy
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assistant attorney general. gentlemen, i'm glad you're both here. another day, another round of subpoenas that. let me start with you, harry. right wing extremists like the oath keepers and proud boys played a big role in the january 6th attack at the capitol so what can these subpoenas that tell us? we're trying to find a link between the white house and violence we saw that day. any correlation to the infamous phrase of stand back and stand by? what do you think? >> yeah, well, so i think you hit the nail on the head, laura. it's the second in two days and yesterday both of them for the first time were people who really were involved in the planning, the organization, the coordination as opposed to actually being there and storming the parts. it's a fair supposition that the committee thinks that the people who were subpoenaed today have some kind of connection to the shadow figures of alex jones and roger stone and who are they? they are exactly the people who operate as a bridge between three percenters and terrorists
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on the one hand and trump and his circle on the other. so i think this shows they're going not only at organization coordination and funding, funding by the very big part here and there is no way the groups themselves could have done it. between those functions and potential involvement by the actual, you know, inner circle and the epicenter trump himself within the white house. >> from funding frankly to ron fundraising, there is a time when you had congressional subpoenas that and it wasn't a feather in one's cap. it was something you were shaking in your boots about and now it seems you can fund raise off of it. the subpoenas that for roger stone yesterday for alex jones. i mean, they're already fundraising off of this. they're actually trying to become martyrs this some respect like steve bannon attempted to last week.
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will they be successful? >> with their audience, sure. you know, i think it is as you say an extraordinary measure of kind of the tribalism and the reflection of the refusal as we talked about before of any republicans in congress other than the two on the committee to stand up for the institutional prerogatives and authority of congress to demand answers not only from the executive branch but the public and essentially allowing this kind of positioning to go forward where people can defy a subpoena and try to make themself as hero for doing so. i assume you've had me here for my legal analysis -- >> naturally, ron. naturally. >> i do wonder, i would assume and i could ask this as a question back to you, i would assume the committee is on stronger ground in demanding compliance of subpoenas that with people that have no plausible executive privilege claim here. whatever they may do in terms of
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the outside world and rallying the base and raising money, they may face a more direct liability than those in the immediate white house themselves. >> welcome to our law firm. so glad you're here. harry litman, let me talk to you the partner of the firm. the people who are mark meadows, former chief of staff, executive privilege claims versus steve bannon or somebody not part of the administration. there is a range in terms of the ability to assert the privilege as it relates to your conversations, right? >> absolutely. there is no surprise ron is 100% right. there is zero, zero hope, zero executive privilege claim here. they have one thing they can try, one card they can play, that's the fifth amendment. this would be a criminal
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contempt charge because there is no possible -- in fact, it's not even clear they have many conversations with trump as to which they could even assert it. they're really more in the soup just tonight laura, bernard, someone else in a similar position at the willard said grudgingly okay, i'm going to cooperate and i'll be there. these guys, the fifth amendment is their only play. >> well, you know, on that notion of the fifth amendment, we heard roger stone say as of yesterday right he might assert the fifth amendment thinking he was somehow said you know convince or coerced or somehow framed into congress. he said he has no advance knowledge of the events at the capitol. here is what they had to say today on alex jones' radio show. listen to this. >> where do we go next, roger? talk about the fifth amendment not that we did anything wrong but why should we have to pay a bunch of lawyers to say we lied. the only answer is hey, fifth amendment, i think.
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>> i don't know what i'm going to do about this subpoena. it has a return date of december 17th. i'll decide between now and then but this isn't effort and distraction. >> oh, this is an effort and distraction, the actual select committee, ron. it must be said. doesn't he have a tattoo on his back of another president behind him, now donald trump? okay. ron, what do you make of that? >> well, look, again, i think, you know, look at the polling, the share of republican voters who believe that what happened on january 6th was wrong and dangerous has been dropping and the share that say we're paying too much attention to it has been rising and i think that is largely because so few elected republican officials have maintained the outrage that many of them mustered in the first hours when their lives were at
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risk and they allowed trump and roger stone and aleck jones to portray this as a democratic vendetta against republicans as opposed to upholding the constitution and the ability to have a peaceful transfer of power in the u.s. and so the risk as this goes forward is that you can see how kind of the trump orbit is putting in place the conditions to invalidate, discredit any report no matter how damming the results, which does make you wonder if a committee investigation is enough and whether you ultimately need a criminal investigation and criminal consequences for no other reason than make an impression about the public about what happened. >> we have to see. there is one criminal indictment related to roger stone for reasons we discussed that seems to be the feather in the cap. nice to see down both.
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appreciate it. >> happy holidays. >> thank you. happy thanksgiving. there is a big verdict now over the 2017 unite the right rally in charlottesville. now, the white nationalists who organized it have to cough up more than $26 million in damages. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ♪
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tonight, a major verdict against the white nationalist who organized and participated in the deadly rally in charlottesville, virginia more than four years ago. a jury in the civil trial holding them accountable for the violence and ordering them to pay millions of dollars in damages. cnn's brian todd explains it all. >> reporter: tonight the jury awarded the plaintiffs in the unite the right trial more than $26 million in punitive damages on several claims. among them, finding five defendants were liable for racial religious or ethnic harassment or violence under a virginia state law and that all the defendants participated in a conspiracy. >> i think this verdict today is a message that this country does not tolerate violence based on racial and religious hatred in any form. >> reporter: in addition, james alex fields jr., the driver of the car that plowed into the crowd of counter protesters were
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found liable for $12 million for assault and battery and inflicting emotional distress. >> there's going to be accountability for the people who did this. >> reporter: more than half of the damages against fields, the rest spread among various defendants from the white nationalist movements. >> none of them have money. i don't know how any of the plaintiffs will get any money from any of this. >> reporter: the jury was deadlocked when organizers conspired to commit racial violence. it included testimony from injuries sustained and fields' car that ran through the crowd and private communications with organizers discussing violence cracking skulls and whether it's legal to drive into protesters. but the defendants said they didn't plan the violence. it wasn't their fault and that what they said before the rally was hyperbole and protected free speech. the damages awarded by the jury means a judgment against some of the most notorious white nationalists.
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the damages will go to the plaintiffs who include some of those most severely injured in the car ramming and brawling. >> i think we did a descent job on the defense side cutting the damages down to size even though it is many millions of dollars. >> reporter: this civil trial an effort to financially cripple the white nationalist movement. >> if you commit racial acts plaintiffs will file suit against you in the future and so the trial now is a detour of what we saw in august 2017. >> reporter: two attorneys for white supremacists said they will try to get the damage assessments against their clients reduced. this and similar lawsuits succeeded in financially crippling some of the most
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notorious white nationalists but may not be over regarding this particular city and its cases. regarding those two counts where the jury could not reach a verdict, those federal counts of conspiracy to commit racially motivated violence, the plaintiffs' attorneys said they will try to bring those cases again. laura? >> brian todd, thank you for your reporting. it's proof hate has a high price tag but will this verdict detour white supremacists from carrying out future attacks? as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need.
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and get your reaction because here is an attorney for several of these defendants today. listen to this. >> the defendants in the case, none of them have money. none of them will get anything. >> destitute. money is a huge motivator. will this actually be able to have the detouring? >> people that will organize or thinking of organizing similar gatherings in the future will think twice about and this is something where the money is one thing, the distraction for these defendants of these legal proceedings has kept them from being more active in this hate mongering movement in the last couple years and it's certainly going to limit their ability to participate in it going forward. so, you know, this is a verdict that is a win for the good guys. >> well, i mean, you have talked about this as seeing kind of a straight line, a through line with this case and a lot of the other cases we're seeing right now. tell me how so. >> yeah, i think this is -- this verdict, this case, this rally in 2017 in charlottesville is
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really inseparable. kyle rittenhouse in kenosha, the january 6th investigation you were talking about . all of this stems from this same pool of hatred and incitement to violence and to take matters into the far right's own hands. i mean, there is a reason that law enforcement leaders, intelligence leaders have been unanimous in their calls over
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the last two years of the number one domestic terror threat facing the united states is white supremacists and white nationalists, for right extremist groups and them trying to call forth their members into the streets to cause violence whether it's against counter protesters or protesters or, you know, members of congress. this is something that the right is embracing openly and troublingly and that we have not yet seen the republican party step forward to condemn in the way that you would expect. >> and garrett, i mean, there is also something to amplify these voices, right? about the role of right wing media, fox, the tucker carlson so-called documentary on january 6th and outlets like bannon's
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podcast. there are a lot of people listening in the echo chamber promoting the big lie and talking about these issues and amplifying these voices. what do you make of it? >> yeah, there have been a number of other cases that we have seen in the last couple of years. you know, the cesar mail bomb bombing attempts of democratic politicians. pundits and cnn's newsroom in 2018. you know, he was someone who followed a very normal path of radicalization, one that we are quite familiar with from groups like al qaeda or isis but he was radicalized here at home primarily through the consumption of right wing extremist propaganda on fox news and on social media. i mean, this is something that is causing real harm and having real consequences in our streets
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as it incites violence against democratic politicians, against liberal movements, against elected leaders from school boards all the way up to congress. >> and of course, it's had deadly consequences when you see what happened in charlottesville for example, garrett graff and heather heyer. thank you for your time. appreciate it. scary. he's one of the biggest promoters of the big lie in congress and by the way he's downplayed the capitol insurrection. now republican lawmaker louie gohmert is running for texas attorney general.
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i'm old enough to remember when a prerequisite for being a state's top prosecutor was that you were tough on crime. in fact, being considered soft on crime was a political death sentence. when someone violated the law and in broad daylight no less you prosecuted that individual to the full extent of the law. full stop. and you were supposed to do so without regard for race, religion, or party. in fact, you tightened lady justice's blindfold. my, how times have changed. now it seems that some candidates you have to turn a blind eye to the january 6th attack on the citadel of our democracy. yesterday republican congressman louie gohmert former judge and lawyer announced his bid to become texas' attorney general. in a tweet he vowed to enforce
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the rule of law and in a separate video he pledged to prioritize election integrity. funny thing is, this is the same congressman who downplayed the insurrection and has attacked the doj and fbi for doing their job. >> there is no evidence as has been said on january 7th that this was an armed insurrection. armed meaning with firearms. there were no firearms. the injustice coming from what was supposed to be the justice department. and what has happened since january 6th is quite sickening. it is a war. it is an assault on our constitution. >> and as for election integrity, well, he has been a vocal supporter of the big lie. >> there is evidence of fraud in
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the november 2020 election. those that say there was no fraud in the election are either doing so knowing that it is false, what they're saying, or just because they bought into what the main stream lame stream media has reported. >> now the attorney general in any state is charged with investigating and prosecuting a wide array of criminal activities including election fraud. now in a country that has seen the gutting of the voting right acts and attempts to roll back voting rights through gerrymandering and discounting validly cast ballots if your candidate loses it would be a gross understatement to say we should pay close attention to those in the positions of power over our nation's elections. the stakes are unbelievably high.
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legislative attempts to amend voting laws after a very high voter turn out election that flipped the majority in congress and put a new president in office are not a coincidence. states across the country are drawing and redrawing their congressional maps. top state officials like attorneys general will be in the position to oversee the process of drawing them fairly and what comes after when votes are cast. we should continue to take exception when anyone tries to use fake fraud as a pretext to question the result. frankly, anyone who traffics in conspiracy theories that threaten our democracy should never be behind the wheel. when push comes to shove our elected officials, all of them, should not only try to enforce the rule of law but extol our fair and free elections. perhaps the question we ought to be asking candidates these days is not whether they are still tough on crime but whether they are weak on democracy. thanks for watching. our coverage continues. oh, boy. carvana just doesn't seem
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